Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby nakul » 21 Sep 2012 12:05

I don't think we are relying solely on airborne radars. The 15 will be supplemented by other radars on the ground & in the air. Therefore, some of them will be used to carry out operations while some will provide cover for our other assets. Non movable assets will usually have their own radars. The airborne ones will be employed in areas where other types are not useful.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby nakul » 22 Sep 2012 17:40

IAF aims to induct 15 airborne warning, control systems

The Indian Air Force (IAF) will be aiming to induct and operate as many as 15 airborne warning and control systems in the next decade which will include the soon-to-be initiated programme of India Airborne Warning and Control System.

Speaking after an event organised to commemorate the arrival of the Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) System (EMB 145i) here, Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne said, “It’s a very large country and our interests are extending beyond our borders as well, including Car Nicobar islands and those areas so we require that number of platforms.”

Browne said that the new AEW&C systems, mounted on Brazilian Embraer aircraft would be based in the Western Border.

“The AEW&C will be inducted into the Indian Air Force in April 2014,” Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister and Chief of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) V K Saraswat said.

Adding that the first of the three aircraft landed in Bangalore a month ago, he said the second one would land in December while the third aircraft is currently undergoing various certification trials in Brazil.


The total will be 15. Currently, we have 3 Phalcons. However, this number will increase to 6 as the Embraers will get inducted.

The Embraers are for the Pakistani border. That means the Chinese border will be monitored by the more powerful Phalcons.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 22 Sep 2012 19:15

Kalaikunda or Panagarh could be a good base for the Phalcons in east - set far in the back but close enough to reach border in 1 hr. Rae bareilly or Agra is located good enough for the central & northern sector

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 22 Sep 2012 19:25

we have to establish a nice air base at arunachal too.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Abhibhushan » 22 Sep 2012 19:42

SaiK wrote:we have to establish a nice air base at arunachal too.


Have you ever visited Arunachal?

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 23 Sep 2012 10:40

AN32s & C-130s land at Vijaynagar ALG in AP. The Embraer should also be able to use it.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby sum » 24 Sep 2012 21:47

Surprised this interesting story was missed:
How the USSR revealed its eye in the sky to the Indian Army

The AWACS had caught the fancy of the world first in the early 1970s, when the re-structured Egyptian armed forces had launched the Yom Kippur offensive against Israel and achieved complete tactical and strategic surprise. The seemingly impregnable Bar-Lev defence line along the East Bank of the Suez Canal was breached decisively, and the invincible Israelis were almost routed. This was the moment when the AWACS made its maiden combat appearance to shore up the beleaguered Israelis in the Sinai desert. And the tide of battle was thereafter so decisively reversed that but for international pressure, the Israelis were within a whisker of capturing Cairo! All the post-war analyses were unanimous that all other factors apart, the application of AWACS had contributed decisively to the ultimate outcome of that war. Little wonder then that armed forces the world over were willing to pay any price to acquire these machines. But the Americans would not part with them. The Russians were desperate to close the gap with this military technology advancement made by the Americans but it was not till the 1980s that they inducted into service their first generation AWACS.


It was natural therefore that when in 1986 General K. Sunderji visited the Soviet Union, as it was then, as a state guest, that he would request his hosts for a look at the AWACS. The idea was to either buy a few of these aircraft outright or obtain them on lease on the lines of the nuclear-powered submarine. When the subject was broached with the Russian Defence Minister during the meeting in a glittering hall at the Kremlin, the Soviets used innocence and guile to convince us that they had never heard of AWACS, let alone possess them. :D At this stage I slipped a sketch of the American AWACS, photocopied from the Jane’s Weapon Systems, to Gen. Sunderji.

That was the beginning of a serious proposition being turned into a hilarious game of bluff. The Defence Minister said with a straight face that in the spirit of the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, would we let them have the photocopy of the technical profile of the American AWACS. After a lengthy duel of mischievous wordplay, Gen. Sunderji agreed to part with the photocopy on the assurance of the Minister that it would remain a guarded secret! And that India would have the first AWACS produced in the Soviet Union.


Before we retired to our rooms, our liaison officer, a two-star general, mentioned that he had arranged a farewell picnic-breakfast the following morning. The picnic site was the 500-hectare State Lemon Farm about 60 km from Tashkent. Try as we might, there was no fathoming the reasons for this unscheduled picnic. And on one pretext or other our host would open yet another bottle of vintage wine, prolonging the breakfast till at last there was heard the approaching drone of an aircraft.

As the aircraft made low and deliberate, repeated passes over us, our host turned to Gen. Sunderji and said, “Sir, doesn’t this resemble the photocopy of the American AWACS you showed us? Had you mentioned that you wanted to see our ASDACS (Acquisition and Strike Directing Aircraft System) we would have gladly flown you in it, all the way back to New Delhi!”


Gen. Sunderji laughed, reached out to a bottle of champagne on the table and raised a toast to the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Cooperation. But what we now have is neither AWACS nor the ASDACS but a hybrid comprising the American Phalcon radar manufactured by the Israelis and mounted by them on Russian IL-76 aircraft provided by us. Such are the games which the superpowers play with their client states.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 25 Sep 2012 07:29

Vijaynagar is within mlrs range of cheen border. These bases can be used for emb145 to refuel in peacetime but can expect to be under severe attack in wartime. So no way a permanent transport or awacs base would be built there. If u need ready infra nearby run with jorhat or guwahati both transport cmd bases. Silchar is another option in barak valley and kalaikunda ofcourse.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby saip » 25 Sep 2012 08:18

This is confusing. AP stands for Arunachal or Andhra? I had to do a double take as I never thought mlrs have such long range to hit Vijayanagar in Andhra Pradesh from Chini border! Considering that Andhra Pradesh came into existence much before Arunachal shouldnt it have different acronym?

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby member_20067 » 25 Sep 2012 08:43

saip wrote:This is confusing. AP stands for Arunachal or Andhra? I had to do a double take as I never thought mlrs have such long range to hit Vijayanagar in Andhra Pradesh from Chini border! Considering that Andhra Pradesh came into existence much before Arunachal shouldnt it have different acronym?


Vijaynagar is in Arunachal Pradesh too... a simple google search often helps


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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Yogi_G » 25 Sep 2012 10:06

sum wrote:Surprised this interesting story was missed:
How the USSR revealed its eye in the sky to the Indian Army

The AWACS had caught the fancy of the world first in the early 1970s, when the re-structured Egyptian armed forces had launched the Yom Kippur offensive against Israel and achieved complete tactical and strategic surprise. The seemingly impregnable Bar-Lev defence line along the East Bank of the Suez Canal was breached decisively, and the invincible Israelis were almost routed. This was the moment when the AWACS made its maiden combat appearance to shore up the beleaguered Israelis in the Sinai desert. And the tide of battle was thereafter so decisively reversed that but for international pressure, the Israelis were within a whisker of capturing Cairo! All the post-war analyses were unanimous that all other factors apart, the application of AWACS had contributed decisively to the ultimate outcome of that war. Little wonder then that armed forces the world over were willing to pay any price to acquire these machines. But the Americans would not part with them. The Russians were desperate to close the gap with this military technology advancement made by the Americans but it was not till the 1980s that they inducted into service their first generation AWACS.


It was natural therefore that when in 1986 General K. Sunderji visited the Soviet Union, as it was then, as a state guest, that he would request his hosts for a look at the AWACS. The idea was to either buy a few of these aircraft outright or obtain them on lease on the lines of the nuclear-powered submarine. When the subject was broached with the Russian Defence Minister during the meeting in a glittering hall at the Kremlin, the Soviets used innocence and guile to convince us that they had never heard of AWACS, let alone possess them. :D At this stage I slipped a sketch of the American AWACS, photocopied from the Jane’s Weapon Systems, to Gen. Sunderji.

That was the beginning of a serious proposition being turned into a hilarious game of bluff. The Defence Minister said with a straight face that in the spirit of the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, would we let them have the photocopy of the technical profile of the American AWACS. After a lengthy duel of mischievous wordplay, Gen. Sunderji agreed to part with the photocopy on the assurance of the Minister that it would remain a guarded secret! And that India would have the first AWACS produced in the Soviet Union.


Before we retired to our rooms, our liaison officer, a two-star general, mentioned that he had arranged a farewell picnic-breakfast the following morning. The picnic site was the 500-hectare State Lemon Farm about 60 km from Tashkent. Try as we might, there was no fathoming the reasons for this unscheduled picnic. And on one pretext or other our host would open yet another bottle of vintage wine, prolonging the breakfast till at last there was heard the approaching drone of an aircraft.

As the aircraft made low and deliberate, repeated passes over us, our host turned to Gen. Sunderji and said, “Sir, doesn’t this resemble the photocopy of the American AWACS you showed us? Had you mentioned that you wanted to see our ASDACS (Acquisition and Strike Directing Aircraft System) we would have gladly flown you in it, all the way back to New Delhi!”


Gen. Sunderji laughed, reached out to a bottle of champagne on the table and raised a toast to the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Cooperation. But what we now have is neither AWACS nor the ASDACS but a hybrid comprising the American Phalcon radar manufactured by the Israelis and mounted by them on Russian IL-76 aircraft provided by us. Such are the games which the superpowers play with their client states.


I read this in the Hindu yesterday and was confused. The Soviets have had the Moss from 1958 and the Shmel from 1984 onwards. So where is the question of closing the technology gap?

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby shiv » 25 Sep 2012 10:21

saip wrote: shouldnt it have different acronym?


It does have a different acronym. It is AnPra for Andhra and AruPra for Arunachal. It is only English that has an inadequate number of alphabets that acronyms are confusing.

Apart from that it is just plain laziness, like IAF for India and Israel air forces. Israeli Air force is IDFAF or Heyl Havir. For India it is Vayusena

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby sum » 03 Oct 2012 10:18

From Tarmak:
The Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) platform, India’s recently-acquired eye-in-the-sky aircraft, had its first flight loaded with desi mission systems on September 29. Defence sources term the flight as shakedown trials, carrying electronic warfare (EW) systems developed by Bangalore-based Centre for Air Borne Systems (CABS).
Built on a modified Embraer platform (EMB-145I), the prying plane had arrived in Bangalore (from Brazil) on August 22. “The aircraft has been integrated with mission system avionics racks populated with line replacement units (LRUs). The internal layout of the aircraft has been modified as it is integrated with the operator work stations and operator chairs as per the final AEW&C configuration. The initial shakedown flights are vital for the AEW&C programme,” sources told Express.
External changes too have been carried out on the aircraft to replace the dummy electronics with actual final functional units. “We have got the flight clearance for initial trials with our systems from the Center for Military Airworthiness Certification, after a thorough inspection. The shakedown sorties aim to ascertain the compliance of structural installation of mission systems,”
sources said.
The aircraft was flown by pilots from Indian Air Force's (IAF) Aircraft Systems and Testing Establishment (ASTE). “A test team comprising of senior scientists from CABS and flight test Engineers, flew in the aircraft to carry out the experiments,” sources said. The developmental flight tests of AEW&C is expected to commence from January 2013, after exhaustive ground tests. The next aircraft is expected from to arrive in India by December 2012.
An ASTE official said that the AEW&C will be the star attraction during this year's Air Force Day parade on October 8, at the Hindon air base. “We are planning to ferry the aircraft to Delhi on October 3 with all installed mission systems. The aircraft will be on a public display for the first time,” the official said.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 03 Oct 2012 10:20

^^^

A great news. Prey for a quick system integration and validation. So that the AEW, quickly enters the service with the IAF.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 03 Oct 2012 11:49

sum wrote:From Tarmak:
The Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) platform, India’s recently-acquired eye-in-the-sky aircraft, had its first flight loaded with desi mission systems on September 29. Defence sources term the flight as shakedown trials, carrying electronic warfare (EW) systems developed by Bangalore-based Centre for Air Borne Systems (CABS).
...
An ASTE official said that the AEW&C will be the star attraction during this year's Air Force Day parade on October 8, at the Hindon air base. “We are planning to ferry the aircraft to Delhi on October 3 with all installed mission systems. The aircraft will be on a public display for the first time,” the official said.

Great news indeed... hope we order six to ten more of these birds ASAP. We need these for the western border as well as the Peninsula, Phalcon and our newer AWACS (DRDO's AWACS India project) can then cover TAR as well as the NE.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 03 Oct 2012 12:10

historically a complex mission kit like AWACS is one of the harder things to get right. but they had some time awaiting the platform and capabilities can be phased in during yearly sw and hw updates one hopes.
these birds are always works in progress....no fixed platinum bullet exists....so hope users are mature about IOC and FOC.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby rajanb » 03 Oct 2012 12:37

saw it taking off at 1130 ish. headed for Delhi, I hope.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby vina » 03 Oct 2012 12:42

The Soviets have had the Moss from 1958 and the Shmel from 1984 onwards

Those and the A-50 were/are basically garbage. That is why the IAF never bought that, despite the dire need of Awacs to counter the Pakistani F-16s and we went and bought the Phalcon when it became available.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby D Roy » 03 Oct 2012 15:44

The A-50 actually had to have some of the data processed via ground stations. Not exactly a desirable quality for an AWACS.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Mihir » 03 Oct 2012 19:09

Not quite; there's a trade-off. Using a dedicated ground station to process data removes all sorts of weight/volume/manpower restrictions imposed by a particular choice of airframe. Data processing capabilities can be much more powerful, and upgraded easily. Also, it's cheaper than a completely independent platform. Of course, this makes the system almost impossible to redeploy to anywhere on the globe at short notice, but that was hardly a big concern for the Soviets.
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 03 Oct 2012 19:20

the A50 airframe was big enough for normal cabinets of computers. but if the soviet state of art was the antique room sized pieces seen in certain Indian engg colleges as gifts, then I fully agree...nothing but a AN124 could accomodate that kit.

the 707 AWACS airframe from day1 carried around 20t of computing equipment iirc.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby nakul » 03 Oct 2012 19:27

Over the years, computing has evolved to the point that size is not an issue. The mobile in your hand could process radar signals to a small degree (it does process GSM signals). The antenna & range characteristics have evolved much slowly. So we can have a good complement of computers in a small EMB 145 frame without having to downlink to a ground based terminal. The use of bigger frames will increase range & coverage.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 03 Oct 2012 19:40

the platform for our own AWACS is not decided till now , as soon as we make such decision we need to order the units ,as it take few years to get the actual airframe after orders.

I guess DRDO would like to break the curse of delays in there projects. :)

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby D Roy » 03 Oct 2012 20:01

but that was hardly a big concern for the Soviets.


Not quite, given how big soviet airspace was and how their GCI was oriented.

besides, having an AWACS dependent on soviet bit rates via data link doesn't cut it for unfettered and truly real time situational awareness.

yes the A-50 would certainly help the GCI guys get a better air situation picture. But that's exactly what was wrong with Soviet doctrine if you know what I am saying. :mrgreen:
So instead of Shmel working in tandem with Mig 29 it would be Shmel helping GCI relay "better" information to Fulcrum via GCI centralized sovietsky. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Mihir » 03 Oct 2012 21:27

I beg to differ. I understand that the whole concept of GCI is derided by many in the West, but it is nowhere as simple or unsophisticated as it is usually made out to be. Given how the Soviet IADS was structured and the war it was intended to fight, it was a very good (and cheap) solution. And the A-50, with its dedicated datalink to ground stations, fitted very well into the overall system.

For example, you say that the A-50 was pointless given how big Soviet air space was. But in the far east, where establishment of ground-based radar stations proved terribly expensive, the A-50 was instrumental in providing radar coverage when necessary.

As for 'Soviet bit rates', they are not a unique by-product of GCI, are they? If lack of bandwidth is a problem, it will only be exacerbated if your AEW&C platform is expected to carry all its C4I onboard and manage an air battle independently, no? :mrgreen:


Nakul, the size and wieght of the electronics is one aspect. Crew size is another, and cannot be 'miniaturised' as easily as electronics can. That is why, in the larger picture, the EMB-145 will rarely work solo. Instead, it will be deployed in conjunction with the A-50 and it's follow-ons.
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby nakul » 03 Oct 2012 21:34

Nakul, the size and wieght of the electronics is one aspect. Crew size is another, and cannot be 'miniaturised' as easily as electronics can. That is why, in the larger picture, the EMB-145 will rarely work solo. Instead, it will be deployed in conjunction with the A-50 and it's follow-ons.


I don't think that we have enough airframes to spare. Each AEW&C will be able to act independently. You are right about the crew problem. To get around this, they alloted a separate space for crew to relax so that the plane can stay up for longer hours. I presume the mission durations can be 10 hours due to inflight refuelling. Have a look at this video from Aero India explaining the innards of the plane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL6y55-a ... 19#t=1180s

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Mihir » 03 Oct 2012 21:53

Sorry, I should have written that part more clearly. Yes, each AEW&C will be able to act independently, especially in smaller engagements. But in a concerted air offensive, they shall form the forward nodes of a massive battle-management network with the A-50 acting as a central command post of sorts. In a defensive war, I wouldn't be surprised to see them being used to plug gaps in a ground-based network degraded by enemy attacks. For either role, sacrificing independence in favour of cost (and greater numbers) would be a good idea.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 03 Oct 2012 22:02

well if the ground based network is degraded by shower of CM attacks, the "gap filler" had better not depend on any support or processing from the ground stations nearby because these will certainly be on the day1 target list.

some things are best done in a lone wolf self-sufficient mode and imo, the awacs thing is one of them.

everyone raja or runk , who could afford it and had the technology to make it happen has gone for independent awacs of the E3, wedgetail and ereyie mould. the current version of russian awacs and chinese purchases likely follow that model as well.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Yogi_G » 03 Oct 2012 22:53

The Soviet aviation computers were definitely miniaturized enough to fit on planes but its the data link that I am still confused about. Now we are talking large volumes of data brought in by the chapathi and data link technology of the 70s and 80s definitely would not have been able to support such bandwidth within an acceptable delay given the military use. Something tells me that the part processing of data at ground station does not sound accurate, going to google more on this.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 03 Oct 2012 23:37

IMHO, the only thing the AWACS should be relaying to the ground station are:
  • Its own location and stores (fuel, chaff, etc.)
  • target velocity vectors (including location),
  • IFF information, and
  • target images and video (IIR, ISAR, optical), with the video being a nice-to-have feature

The ground station should assimilate this information from multiple sources such as AWACS, Desi AEW&C, ground based radar, aerostat, etc. in overlapping and distinct coverage areas to get the big picture. The assimilation process should weed out false alarms.

Assimilated information (the big picture) should be relayed back to AWACS and other theatre controllers.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby nakul » 03 Oct 2012 23:42

The AEW&C is a potent node in a networked environment. Whilst in air, it will transmit the data to other planes, satellites or if in LOS, directly to ground control centers. The other planes will only need to know of any airborne targets in range of attack while the rest of the picture should be available to IA, IAF & central command. There is no reason to go via central command for immediate threats in the air space around the aircraft. It should be indepent at protecting itself and vectoring attacks while relaying the big picture to central command. Multiple AEW&C will give the larger picture which will in turn be used to give directions to individual assets.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby D Roy » 03 Oct 2012 23:47

If lack of bandwidth is a problem, it will only be exacerbated if your AEW&C platform is expected to carry all its C4I onboard and manage an air battle independently, no?



No. In your scenario all that the Soviets would be doing is point defence. But that is not the only thing even their AWACS was intended for.

However I really do not want to launch into a major discussion at this point about how good Soviet Air doctrine was and how it sits with what the IAF wants.

May be some other time.
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 03 Oct 2012 23:48

nakul wrote:The AEW&C is a potent node in a networked environment. Whilst in air, it will transmit the data to other planes, satellites or if in LOS, directly to ground control centers. The other planes will only need to know of any airborne targets in range of attack while the rest of the picture should be available to IA, IAF & central command. There is no reason to go via central command for immediate threats in the air space around the aircraft. It should be indepent at protecting itself and vectoring attacks while relaying the big picture to central command. Multiple AEW&C will give the larger picture which will in turn be used to give directions to individual assets.

Nobody is saying that the AWACS or AEW&C needs a nod from the ground station for every engagement. However, there is no need to have an AWACS with blinkers on, so to speak, i.e. limited to its own detection range. Those engaging targets need to focus on their own areas, but it helps to also know if you're being outflanked.

Also, targets might fly in tight formation to take advantage of a radar shadowing effect from one AWACS. If this AWACS receives assimilated information from multiple angles from the ground station, it will know, for example, that there's a bogey of 3 targets, not one.
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby nakul » 03 Oct 2012 23:53

PratikDas wrote:
nakul wrote:The AEW&C is a potent node in a networked environment. Whilst in air, it will transmit the data to other planes, satellites or if in LOS, directly to ground control centers. The other planes will only need to know of any airborne targets in range of attack while the rest of the picture should be available to IA, IAF & central command. There is no reason to go via central command for immediate threats in the air space around the aircraft. It should be indepent at protecting itself and vectoring attacks while relaying the big picture to central command. Multiple AEW&C will give the larger picture which will in turn be used to give directions to individual assets.

Nobody is saying that the AWACS or AEW&C needs a nod from the ground station for every engagement. However, there is no need to have an AWACS with blinkers on, so to speak, i.e. limited to its own detection range. Those engaging targets need to focus on their own areas, but it helps to also know if you're being out-flanked.


It will receive the complete data from the network but it cannot & should not solely rely on that for its own safety. The data will of course be required because without it how will it fly and direct its vectors. It can't move around in circles at the same spot. However, the complete picture will not be the purview of the AEW&C since it needs to focus on its own sector. Like its possible to provide a complete picture to every pilot but will concentrate on its area of concern unless required otherwise.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 03 Oct 2012 23:56

nakul wrote:It will receive the complete data from the network but it cannot & should not solely rely on that for its own safety. The data will of course be required because without it how will it fly and direct its vectors. It can't move around in circles at the same spot. However, the complete picture will not be the purview of the AEW&C since it needs to focus on its own sector. Like its possible to provide a complete picture to every pilot but will concentrate on its area of concern unless required otherwise.

The two statements in bold seem to be conflicting.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby nakul » 03 Oct 2012 23:58

It will know whats going on 1000 km because it will be a part of the network. However, it will have nothing to do with it and is unable to influence it. To put in simpler terms, I know what decisions MMS is making but I can't influence them.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 04 Oct 2012 00:01

nakul wrote:It will know whats going on 1000 km because it will be a part of the network. However, it will have nothing to do with it and is unable to influence it. To put in simpler terms, I know what decisions MMS is making but I can't influence them.

We agree on the bold part. :)

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Mihir » 04 Oct 2012 00:20

Singha saar, the scenario you described is one in which AEW&C truly comes into its own. When an IADS is attacked, it is always the sector and regional operations centers that are sought out and targeted. As these centres (and their radars) start getting scrubbed off the board, the AEW birds can quickly be deployed to plug gaps in coverage and keep fighting the air battle. Obviously, their mobility makes them very difficult to take down. They can seek shelter where the air defences are strong, and continue the fight over the axes that are under attack. As long as they relay communications, maintain the integrity of the layered air defences, and ensure that missile sites and fighters are shooting at the right targets at the right time, the enemy cannot penetrate the system.

It is a numbers and quality game. The 'lone wolf' does all this better, and can work in a environment where the ground based network has taken severe damage; but it is expensive, which limits the number that can be procured. The simpler system depends on ground-based assets more, but it is cheaper. Different approaches suit different nations. Chalaak SDRE baniyas appear to have gone for a mix of the two, as it gives more flexibility in dealing with our friendly brothers and brotherly friends.

PS: To the best of my knowledge, the Erieye cannot work independently except in very limited engagements. It is highly dependent on ground-based systems for command and control, and therefore, a good solution for a country that expects to fight a largely defensive air war. Pakistan, for example.


D Roy, I wasn't simply thinking about point defence. A layered IADS does much more than provide simple point defence.

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 04 Oct 2012 09:31

Mihir wrote:...
It is a numbers and quality game. The 'lone wolf' does all this better, and can work in a environment where the ground based network has taken severe damage; but it is expensive, which limits the number that can be procured...

+100 on the number and quality game point... we need more AWACS, we need better one with higher levels of capability, longer on-station time with better crew comfort as well as self protection for the bird... we need to identify the bird ASAP and plan ahead...i still think we need to order another 10 Embraer birds for our AEWC&S...

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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 04 Oct 2012 21:01

long term its quite clear we need 15-20 Embraer types and around 10 Phalcons - minimum. using a A330 chassis for phalcon would hugely increase its fuel capacity, payload, crew rest area etc. the IL76 is a fairly small a/c in comparison though stressed for heavy point loads as a cargo hauler.


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