Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby chola » 20 Jun 2018 08:18

ramana wrote:
Bart S wrote:Is this something that we necessarily need Gromov's help with? Would a used Boeing 747 serve the purpose? Or is it really the Gromov/TSAGI expertise that we need?



The flying test bed is chock full of instruments and has the safety of three other engines.

And to build a flying test bed for one engine is not a business case.


Yes that unfortunately is the practical answer to the fact that the Kaveri was (is?) a lab exercise and not an industrial project.

As I wrote before on multiple threads, if we had a proper engine industry that was making turbojets for the hundreds of MiGs we built or building turboprops for the many An-32’s we operate we would have invested in a flying testbed a long time ago. The Kaveri would not have been an one-off moonshot but an incremental development of the industry.

The business case in that scenario would be a flying testbed for the Kaveri AND the countless parallel and future projects from the industry.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 20 Jun 2018 18:27

Saurav Jha
@SJha1618
France's Safran Aircraft Engines, which carried out a technical audit on @DRDO_India's Kaveri jet engine development program, has stated in a report that the engine had attained sufficient maturity to be integrated with an aircraft for limited envelope flight testing.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Vips » 20 Jun 2018 18:35

Saurav Jha has been breaking and posting news on some of the critical/important projects. Wish other defence correspondents did more then just relying on press meets and releases from DRDO/DPSU's.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Rakesh » 20 Jun 2018 19:42

ArjunPandit wrote:Saurav Jha
@SJha1618
France's Safran Aircraft Engines, which carried out a technical audit on @DRDO_India's Kaveri jet engine development program, has stated in a report that the engine had attained sufficient maturity to be integrated with an aircraft for limited envelope flight testing.

Once again S Jha has done an excellent job of reporting the news. I am eagerly waiting for Kaveri88 to fly. I hope they do it on a twin engine bird first and then on the Tejas. Remember, Safran had promised to have a flying prototype of the Kaveri by Aero India 2019. I hope they are on track for that. Flying the engine is one thing (and is a *HUGE* lungi dance moment), certification is the next goal. But I do not want to jump too ahead. Please fly baby, just please fly. The last (and most important) shackle of the Tejas will be broken —> the engine. Every other hurdle has been overcome.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby prasannasimha » 20 Jun 2018 23:15

^ I think the Kaveri Safran has audited did not have an M88 core. It is still the original Kabini core with some modifications

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby prasannasimha » 20 Jun 2018 23:54

Image

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby ramana » 21 Jun 2018 00:37

Rakesh and Prasanna, This is like getting the foreign expert to come and bless the project.
Was GTRE so lacking in confidence they needed this?

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Rakesh » 21 Jun 2018 01:43

Ramana-ji, there was a clear lack of vision combined with piss poor funding. I know this might sound out of this world or nonsensical, but how does one justify even considering spending billions on phoren fighters only to turn around and say that there is no money for engine development. There is no accountability and no vision which results in lacklustre products. So apparently we needed a foreign company to come in and audit the program. We could have done this in house, but with politicians running after votes and with bureaucrats running after their next post how can we expect our scientists at GTRE (or anywhere else) to do anything? What has been achieved to date in the Kaveri program is nothing short of a miracle.

We have had successes in the Arihant vessel, the nuclear reactor aboard the vessel, the nuclear weapons aboard the vessel and the K4 missiles for those nuclear weapons. So we definitely know how to manage a complex program and see it to fruition. Yet, on crucial projects (and IMHO just as important as Arihant) we dropped the ball and let the ball roll. The urgency for your own engine was never properly envisioned. This is not just about the Kaveri engine for the Tejas. This is about mastering a key technology that is crucial for India to achieve self reliance and establishing a strong MIC - bedrock for a country with regional and global aspirations. Possessing nuclear weapons was considered crucial, but having India create her own engines was not. The logic fails me.

Disclaimer - I am not advocating that we should have dropped our nuclear weapons program in lieu for engine development. But I believe, they are both equally important. We cannot change the past, but I hope we realize the fallacies of the past and make remedies to see the Kaveri program to successful completion and if that requires Safran (or whoever else) to come on aboard, then let that happen.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Rakesh » 21 Jun 2018 01:43

prasannasimha wrote:^ I think the Kaveri Safran has audited did not have an M88 core. It is still the original Kabini core with some modifications

Sorry, I did not realize that. I stand corrected.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby ramana » 21 Jun 2018 03:00

Rakesh, SAFRAN is in due to Rafale offsets. About a $B worth. The story was they would bring the M88 core and magic sauce to make new Kaveri.

Now the watch some 145 tests and come up with a report and say it's good to fly in an aircraft.
And this is $1B worth?
All these tests were in India.
So what's going on?

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Katare » 21 Jun 2018 03:47

Ramana,
I don’t think this is related to offsets. The audit is probably done on test data to ensure the testing data package is not missing anything. The audit itself would not cost more than a few million euros. It’s just added safety layer, nothing more.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby ramana » 21 Jun 2018 05:12

Ok. Thanks for calming me.

BTW the early consultants for Kaveri were SNECMA for France.
Could be these guys mentors.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Indranil » 21 Jun 2018 05:33

So, Rustom’s Diesel engines are a modified auto engine churning out 185 HP. Now, some refinements for weight optimization and high altitude performance.

Meanwhile Rustom II is now close to 3 tons in weight. New LGs being designed at CVRDE.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Rakesh » 21 Jun 2018 05:57

Ramana-ji, couple of points to note;

1) The Kaveri program was comatose, until the Rafale contract signed in Sept 2016. See below (written by Anantha Krishnan)...

DRDO to abandon indigenous fighter jet engine Kaveri project
https://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2014/11/ ... andon.html
18 Nov 2014 and if you click on the link above, the author updated the article (in Jan 2015) via a link at the bottom of the page.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has decided to wind up the Kaveri engine (GTX-35VS) programme, signaling an end to a desi dream of equipping its own fighter jet with a home-grown power plant. Sources in the Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed to OneIndia on Tuesday that the DRDO has already moved a file recently seeking the closure of the ambitious engine development project undertaken by Bengaluru-based Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE).

2) By mid 2016, news reports started coming in that France offered to revive the Kaveri program. See below...

France offers help to resurrect Kaveri engine for Tejas
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/F ... 475955.ece

France has offered to help India revive the unsuccessful Kaveri engine project for the indigenous Tejas aircraft and a host of other high-end collaborations. This is a part of the offsets in the multi-billion Euro Rafale fighter plane deal, which is now in the final stages.

An upgraded Kaveri engine with 90 kN thrust compared to the existing 72 kN can be developed with French cooperation, which can eventually be used for Tejas, which currently uses an American engine.

This was a brilliant move by the French, because they knew whatever ailed the Kaveri was fixable. We bit the bullet and in Sept 2016, the Rafale deal was signed in New Delhi, between India and France.

Prasannasimha-ji did a wonderful job by posting that snippet on the Kaveri program. From 2014 to the end of 2016, there was little or no movement of any significance on the Kaveri program. In Sept 2016, the Rafale deal was signed and France promised to have the Kaveri fly by Aero India 2019. By the end of 2017, five prototypes were tested for a total of 145 hours. Safran conducted a technical audit and states that the engine has attained sufficient level of maturity.

Now GTRE could have done this themselves and saved US $1 billion in the bargain. But remember, DRDO wanted to shut down the program in 2014. Four years later, the program has done a complete u-turn. We always knew Safran would make the Kaveri work, whether they actually wanted to do it was the real proof in the pudding. And if that news snippet is correct, Safran has delivered albeit half way. The next deliverable from Safran is get the Kaveri to fly and the one after that is to get the Kaveri certified.

What exactly Safran did, we will likely never know unless we have chaiwallahs in GTRE :) Audit can be anything and Katare has provided clarity on that. Now this by Prasannasimha-ji is very interesting. Safran was supposed to put the M88 core in and make the Kaveri work. But that has not happened. The Kabini core itself has been modified by Safran.

prasannasimha wrote:^ I think the Kaveri Safran has audited did not have an M88 core. It is still the original Kabini core with some modifications.

Now I will make an educated guess of my own. I believe Safran has "modified" the core to meet - at minimum - the original design specifications, which I am assuming is around 90 kN. I believe - in this very dhaaga - we came to conclusion that the M88 core cannot be installed in the Kaveri engine. Please correct me if I am wrong. But regardless, the above is even better news.

Now you make a valid point...is this help from Safran really worth US $1 billion? Please remember (I know, I sound like a broken record player)...the program was officially de-linked from the Tejas. If Safran can make the Kaveri fly and certified - via audit, via modifications or whatever - that is IMHO a very sound investment. As per wiki chacha, we have spent more than US $640 million on the program, add another US $1 billion (Kaveri offset) and a few hundred million more and India will have spent ~ US $2 billion to date on this program. Sir - as long as the engine works - that is peanuts. The payoffs for India are huge.

Now Safran has provided its input and its report. Now the first step is get the Kaveri to fly. The next step (a long way to go for this) is certification. My lungi is ready for Aero India 2019. I will either lungi shiver or lungi dance, depending on the news :)

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Khalsa » 21 Jun 2018 10:01

Since 2016, I did not visit this thread but checked it out after reading some good news elsewhere on the InterWebs

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Pratyush » 21 Jun 2018 14:16

Make the damned thing fly. Enough of this striptease.

Don't care if it fails. Just make sure that the ejection seat works.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Jun 2018 16:20

ramana wrote:
Bart S wrote:Is this something that we necessarily need Gromov's help with? Would a used Boeing 747 serve the purpose? Or is it really the Gromov/TSAGI expertise that we need?



The flying test bed is chock full of instruments and has the safety of three other engines.

And to build a flying test bed for one engine is not a business case.


The west mostly seems to use the 747s as test bed aircraft.

But seriously, since when has anything done in India ever been considered from a business case point of view??

Below is the Pratt and Whitney test bed.

Image

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby JTull » 21 Jun 2018 16:29

ramana wrote:
Bart S wrote:Is this something that we necessarily need Gromov's help with? Would a used Boeing 747 serve the purpose? Or is it really the Gromov/TSAGI expertise that we need?



The flying test bed is chock full of instruments and has the safety of three other engines.

And to build a flying test bed for one engine is not a business case.


Having a flying test bed is no different than having a land-based prototype of AIP or submarine nuclear-reactor.

Perhaps the Snecma audit was needed because IAF and MoD bureaucrats didn't believe anything GTRE said.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby JayS » 21 Jun 2018 16:31

ramana wrote:Rakesh and Prasanna, This is like getting the foreign expert to come and bless the project.
Was GTRE so lacking in confidence they needed this?


Rhetoric question..? Because we Indians have habit of trusting outsiders more than our own brethren. Anything said by our guys can be simply dismissed. Its not easy to dismiss a stamp by Gora Sahib.

Its been already known that Snecma did technical audit of Kaveri (I think from the perspective of evaluating value of work package for offset purpose) during 2016. I have been trying to point out precisely this same thing many times here, that the audit must have shown that Kaveri is already past all major technical problems and only integration with aircraft and flight test program must be the major work packages intended for Snecma to help with. This was rather clear from the claim that Kaveri will be flightworthy in 2yrs. Later we saw during Aero India that GTRE claiming they have resolved all the issues. We even got some published technical material to support their claim to some extent.

But the French magic is so overwhelming that some of us went kite flying and started having wet dreams of Kaveri-88 with M88 core flying in LCA in two years from signing of contract. And reality is even with French stamp, Kaveri still is not moving anywhere. They had sum total of 147hrs of engine testing in whole one year...!!! They are still thinking over funding for 90kN version, the procurement of FTB is still in "to be or not to be" phase.

Snecma is closely associated with GTRE over the decades. They already have had pretty decent idea of the status of the project even without audit. Its rather cheeky for them to charge us $1B for covering remaining milestones to make it fly. Also we should keep in mind that making Kaveri flightworthy is not the end of the things. We will still have long way to do from there.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Karan M » 21 Jun 2018 17:03

France does have a track record (as does Russia) of working with us "core" technology, albeit at a heavy price.
In the 1980's, it was Thales then Thomson CSF which allowed BEL engineers to work with French guys in radars via the PSM-33 program, then the Sagem (now Safran) guys transferred TOT to HAL for the INS which went on the Jaguars.
Today, France has signed deals with us for the XR5 (Photonis) tube for BEL, again tech which US would never give us (comes under restricted) and then worked with DRDO on their semiconductors & also gave us Master-A for the BMD program (http://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/0 ... ster_A.pdf).
I wouldn't be surprised if Snecma actually provided useful inputs to GTRE (albeit not complete tech) for the Kaveri.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby prasannasimha » 21 Jun 2018 17:25

Chaiwall told Paanwalla that there was no funding however work was going on silently but the funding was severely cut off. There are people who slogged for years on Kaveri against multiple odds(Example - you want a particular alloy - no company will do it for a small run and the babu's will not pay premium for a small smelting run. So things became more and more frustrating for them. Then came the huge budget cut that added to the problem. Some were so bitter about what was happening but could not talk. Its not that they were hatching eggs there - many intelligent people were slogging their heads off but then there are people who wanted to see it fail as engine market is a big money maker !! In fact one person told me it was very much flight worthy but if you do not get a flying test bed to clock in the hours and allow to fine tune how can you do it ? Now someone has certified so things move quickly !

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby chola » 21 Jun 2018 18:11

prasannasimha wrote:Chaiwall told Paanwalla that there was no funding however work was going on silently but the funding was severely cut off. There are people who slogged for years on Kaveri against multiple odds(Example - you want a particular alloy - no company will do it for a small run and the babu's will not pay premium for a small smelting run. So things became more and more frustrating for them. Then came the huge budget cut that added to the problem. Some were so bitter about what was happening but could not talk. Its not that they were hatching eggs there - many intelligent people were slogging their heads off but then there are people who wanted to see it fail as engine market is a big money maker !! In fact one person told me it was very much flight worthy but if you do not get a flying test bed to clock in the hours and allow to fine tune how can you do it ? Now someone has certified so things move quickly !



Much about this rings true in large companies as well.

A small department can be working on something with a lot of potential but some higher ups in the management chain decides he can’t recoup the costs from his budget so he cuts off or reduces funds.

But then a respected consultant comes in and audits the product and tells the babu with the purse strings that the work is good and there is potential.

The truth is not confidence of GTRE but the confidence the MOD or those higher up in GOI have of the Kaveri. It might be that nothing that desis can do will convince those babus in power. But a respected firm populated by godlike gora can do this onlee.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Jun 2018 19:36

chola wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:Chaiwall told Paanwalla that there was no funding however work was going on silently but the funding was severely cut off. There are people who slogged for years on Kaveri against multiple odds(Example - you want a particular alloy - no company will do it for a small run and the babu's will not pay premium for a small smelting run. So things became more and more frustrating for them. Then came the huge budget cut that added to the problem. Some were so bitter about what was happening but could not talk. Its not that they were hatching eggs there - many intelligent people were slogging their heads off but then there are people who wanted to see it fail as engine market is a big money maker !! In fact one person told me it was very much flight worthy but if you do not get a flying test bed to clock in the hours and allow to fine tune how can you do it ? Now someone has certified so things move quickly !



Much about this rings true in large companies as well.

A small department can be working on something with a lot of potential but some higher ups in the management chain decides he can’t recoup the costs from his budget so he cuts off or reduces funds.

But then a respected consultant comes in and audits the product and tells the babu with the purse strings that the work is good and there is potential.

The truth is not confidence of GTRE but the confidence the MOD or those higher up in GOI have of the Kaveri. It might be that nothing that desis can do will convince those babus in power. But a respected firm populated by godlike gora can do this onlee.


This is not such a simple matter of blaming the baboo(n)s.

The collateral damage from loss of credibility is very destructive and also has far reaching consequences.

It is also a self inflicted wound that may take many many years to heal.

It is not just the baboo(n)s who need to be convinced but their dreaded cousins, the financial guys, the bean counters who are very knowledgeable and keenly incisive in getting to the root of any issue to clearly see the bottlenecks. They may not be so very technically competent in engineering terms but are clearly able to know when shit is being peddled.

I have been in meetings where the project managers and the lab heads have been ripped to shreds by these very bean counters and left almost on the verge of breakdowns because their shit could not ride out the scrutiny.

It is not just the funding but also the technical ROI that is being evaluated. Already scarce funds are being cut and redeployed in other sectors where the ROI is more tangible and results more promising.

The days of easy money are long gone. No more project sanctions or extensions over whiskey and tandoori chicken.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby habal » 21 Jun 2018 20:12

If I am to appropriate ideas from the chinese engine development program, which as opposed to us is a program on steroids. My guess is the French will provide provide low pressure compressor tech for kaveri. And rest will remain as is.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby ramana » 21 Jun 2018 20:46

Chetak wrote:I have been in meetings where the project managers and the lab heads have been ripped to shreds by these very bean counters and left almost on the verge of breakdowns because their shit could not ride out the scrutiny.

It is not just the funding but also the technical ROI that is being evaluated. Already scarce funds are being cut and redeployed in other sectors where the ROI is more tangible and results more promising.


The days of easy money are long gone. No more project sanctions or extensions over whiskey and tandoori chicken.


This is a worldwide phenomenon.
I have been in similar meetings also.
Don't mind lekin but bean counting has an acute BS meter.

Chetak just a few posts before you were wondering if Business case is ever made in India!!!
Bean counter intervention is best example.


JayS, Rakesh et al thanks for keeping faith in GTRE capability vis a vis Kaveri.
Unfortunately I don't. Been burnt for three decades since 1985 following this low bypass flat rated turbojet with a Rallis fan!

Sincerity of work does not substitute for technical competence.*
Its just like that dhabha guy who says Bombay toast mil jayega when he has no clue what it is!

Also I don't get how 147 hours of ground testing has eliminated all the main problems dogging Kaveri : screech, under performing thrust levels, mfg difficulties .
As others have pointed out its bringing a phoren expert to sprinkle holy waters and bless the local design just like hey fly in UK surgeons to confirm the diagnosis already reached by desi doctors.
The joke is even the UK surgeons are desi!!!

Anyway hope this Kaveri gets put on a plane and gets tested.
If I recall original specs IAF wanted a 1000 hours on operations before it gets inducted.

the way GE is melting down in US, its good to push for Kaveri certification.

* PS : I want GTRE to be split up as part of DRDO reform. The engine design and development should be attached to HAL Engine Division for future spinoff to an engine making company. GTR can still work on basic/fundamental research in Gas Turbine research. This attaching Engine design and development to a research institute leads to no research and worse no engine.

Prasanna,
Can you ask paanwalla what are the fundamental papers that GTRE has published since inception? Wont find more than a handful as its mostly imitative research form Cranfield or Wright Patterson.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Jun 2018 21:50

^^^^^^^
@ramana ji,

Bean counters are a fairly recent phenomena and were not a reviewing part of meetings earlier. Older projects did not have them in the early days.

Projects that have frequently overshot their deadlines and carried on regardless for decades have by force, acquired bean counters because of changing regulations and increased accountability now being demanded by stake holders.

It is here that loss of credibility has hit the hardest and funding has virtually dried up.

Like I said, self inflicted wounds leave very visible scars and no amount of plastic surgery will remedy the situation.

Yes, to a certain extent, baboo(n)s are responsible but serious introspection will yield a better understanding.

The infrastructure and staffing and financial outlay for a flying test bed may well rival and even eclipse the present outlay of the parent lab itself.

White elephants, by definition, are a very rare commodity but given the right environment, they tend to breed fairly rapidly.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby chola » 21 Jun 2018 23:05

^^^ The overarching problem to all this is that the Kaveri is a lab experiment and not an industrial project.

When an US, Rus or Chini project fails there is always a backup plan from the industry.

The chini WS-15 slated for their uber J-20 is blowing up during tests but they have a bunch of WS-10 variants and upgrades they can fall back on. The same with their WS-13 backing their WS-19 for the F-31. All of these variants necessitate the procurement of that expensive flying testbed from the same Russian facility that tested the Kaveri.

That is how an industry works. It is built on top of thousands of pistons, turboprops and turbojets before the holy grail combat turbofan.

When GTRE started on the medium turban in the same class as the RD-33 (which the experienced Russians can’t get totally right then or now) we had never even built a piston that was productionized. Two decades later we still had to import a piston for Rustom I.

We have to build that industry. Our engine programs can’t hinge on lab experiments whose existence depend on the approval of government beancounters.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby chetak » 23 Jun 2018 20:25

Image

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby hanumadu » 02 Jul 2018 08:56

Saurav Jha


@SJha1618
Following Following @SJha1618
More
Schematic for a new with high inlet pressure distortion tolerance under development at GTRE. The objective of the project is to design 'a fan with 3:4:1 pressure ratio and 78 kg/s mass flow in three stages for future military aircraft' .
Source: #DRDOAnnualReport2016

Image


The mass flow is the same as the current Kaveri.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby ramana » 02 Jul 2018 21:17

GTRE keeps throwing futuristic bread crumbs to throw off the jackals after them for Kaveri non performance.

What is a schematic supposed to do?
Gives hope?

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Indranil » 02 Jul 2018 22:34

Ramana sir,

There are already manufacturing this.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby ramana » 03 Jul 2018 04:08

OK. No outrage from me.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby hanumadu » 03 Jul 2018 08:05

Indranil wrote:Ramana sir,

There are already manufacturing this.


Where are they using it? Kaveri?

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Pratyush » 03 Jul 2018 11:22

When will it fly. Don't care about the different designs being shown or the solution being presented.

The most important aspect of any aero engine is for it to fly the way it is intended to perform.

Please make it fly.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby jaysimha » 03 Jul 2018 11:28

Did we miss this?
Macron's engine offer for Tejas aimed at powering
more Rafale sales By Justin Paul George
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/npc/2018/march/din-10march2018.pdf


the first two of 99 F414 engines on order reached India in 2017 din't know this

Indranil
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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Indranil » 03 Jul 2018 20:05

hanumadu wrote:
Indranil wrote:Ramana sir,

There are already manufacturing this.


Where are they using it? Kaveri?

AFAIK with kabini core.
jaysimha wrote:Did we miss this?
Macron's engine offer for Tejas aimed at powering
more Rafale sales By Justin Paul George
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/npc/2018/march/din-10march2018.pdf


the first two of 99 F414 engines on order reached India in 2017 din't know this

This is very old news. And both malfunctioned. Dr. Saraswat pulled up the GE gents in front of everybody in the AeroIndia seminar. He basically said that both not working cannot be put down to coincidence.

kit
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Posts: 2641
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby kit » 04 Jul 2018 00:36

Indranil wrote:
hanumadu wrote:
Where are they using it? Kaveri?

AFAIK with kabini core.
jaysimha wrote:Did we miss this?
Macron's engine offer for Tejas aimed at powering
more Rafale sales By Justin Paul George
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/npc/2018/march/din-10march2018.pdf


the first two of 99 F414 engines on order reached India in 2017 din't know this

This is very old news. And both malfunctioned. Dr. Saraswat pulled up the GE gents in front of everybody in the AeroIndia seminar. He basically said that both not working cannot be put down to coincidence.


probably the contract did not have a clause for penalties .. almost sure about it ..western contractors are notorious for doing this

ramana
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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby ramana » 04 Jul 2018 02:41

Usually such high value items have source acceptance. I.E a HAL designated official to witness inspection and test reports and accept the items before they are shipped.

barath_s
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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby barath_s » 09 Jul 2018 13:09

There's not been much news on kaveri marine since 2008 except a cryptic message in 2014. Has Kaveri marine been abandoned (aka deprioritized ) ?

Are the Rajput class still candidates or are they likely to go the Ukrainian/possible JVroute for mid-life refits ?

The lack of news combined with the almost closure of Kaveri and demand on resources (eg in favor of new M88 core work) makes me suspect it has been given a virtual death. Any actual news ?

Neshant
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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Neshant » 09 Jul 2018 14:08

Let's hope the Kaveri does not turn out like the 100 year Arjun tank project.


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