Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby Prasad » 12 Aug 2020 17:30

Bharat forge/kalyani developed a 120kgf engine.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 12 Aug 2020 22:31

Ok. Thanks. Turbo fan or jet?

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby Gyan » 13 Aug 2020 00:23

brar_w wrote:Rolls Royce is the primary propulsion solution developer and eventually provider on the Italian-British-Swedish Tempest program.


Tempest program is bit of Iffy. Also the proposed Engine for Tempest is supposedly adaptive cycle, which is also an iffy and a generation ahead

Collaboration with India will allow RR to develop a low risk 110-120kn engine right in ballpark of GE F414 with technology base & knowhow of EJ200

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby brar_w » 13 Aug 2020 00:38

Gyan wrote:
brar_w wrote:Rolls Royce is the primary propulsion solution developer and eventually provider on the Italian-British-Swedish Tempest program.


Tempest program is bit of Iffy. Also the proposed Engine for Tempest is supposedly adaptive cycle, which is also an iffy and a generation ahead

Collaboration with India will allow RR to develop a low risk 110-120kn engine right in ballpark of GE F414 with technology base & knowhow of EJ200


The tempest is no more iffy then any other next generation program out their be it in the US, France, Germany etc. Rolls has been involved in 5GFA and has even been a recipient of some early adaptive engine seed funding through their US entity. Of course they will benefit greatly, at least financially, from a joint venture for an India specific engine just like anyone else. But they have a fair bit of current gen and next gen on their plate. That was my point. But the business case for such an engine (without state subsidy) is not easy given the number of entrants in the market. Case in point is the fact that despite winning competitions to support the Tejas, Gripen and two FGFA (AMCA and KFX), GE can’t internally close the business case for self funding their planned and fairly low risk EPE enhancements. And this for the best selling engine in its class anywhere in the world. And you can look at unit level economics if you were to pass on this cost. Even a modest $0.5 Billion level CR&D enhancement cost could potentially double the per unit cost of the engine if passed on exclusively to a customer picking 100 or so units. Thus, you either need a state to bank roll the cost without a worry of its unit level impact, or have a market for many hundreds if not close to a thousand engines to recover your investment at a trickle and without significant impact on the per unit cost to the end user.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby MeshaVishwas » 19 Aug 2020 16:21

engine has been tested to its potential of 12 MW at ISA SL 35°C condition which is the requirement of the Indian Navy for propelling the SNF (Rajput) class of ships....

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 25 Sep 2020 06:24

Rafale osets: New ghter jet engine complex coming up, French assistance likely.

Hope runs eternal for TOT by Safran :rotfl: and more chai biskoot and samosa's for our willing babus.

Even as the central auditor has raised questions on non-completion of high end technology transfer as part of the Rafale ghterjet offsets deal, ET has learnt that a new fighter jet engine complex spearheaded by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is in the works, with advanced discussions on for a completely new engine for future Indian fighters with a French manufacturer.

The new engine complex is being set up as a national mission to develop a 110 kilo newton powered engine for the future class of advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA) and could produce the engine within seven years of starting work.

French engine manufacturer Safran has offered a compete technology transfer to develop the engine and use the offset credits from the Rafale deal and is also tying up with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for transferring manufacturing technology for high end engines.

“We are signing an agreement related to the technology needed for high thrust engine manufacturing. The technology will be common to the Rafale engines that can be supported by us and would also be useful for the 110 kn engine project,” HAL Chairman R Madhavan told ET.

While the new engine complex is yet to be set up, the broad understanding is that it would cater to high end fighter jet engines while HAL would be involved in lower thrust engines for helicopters, light transport aircraft, UAVs and trainers.

HAL is also likely to be part of the 110 kn engine project as a manufacturing partner. As reported by ET, the air force is keen that the future AMCA fighter jet be powered by an indigenous engine to ensure self reliance. While the first squadron of the AMCA fighters would need a foreign engine due to timelines, future squadrons would be powered by an Indian engine, which could possibly be christened the Kaveri.

As reported, in a report referring to the Rafale fighter jet deal, the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) pointed out on Wednesday that plans for transfer of high end technology as part of the offsets deal have not been completed and it not clear if it will even take place in the future.

ET has been reporting that plans to use the Rafale offsets for obtaining jet engine technology has been hanging since 2016, even though French company Safran has been in talks with Indian stakeholders. French companies can modify offset plans at any point but have a huge obligation - to the tune of 3.5 billion Euro – that need to be competed in the next three years, though this timeline can be extended by the government.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby nash » 25 Sep 2020 17:11

I think we might have deal with RR to develop the 110 KN engine with some guidance in hot section and we may use this facility from Safran to manufacture those engine.

“We are signing an agreement related to the technology needed for high thrust engine manufacturing. The technology will be common to the Rafale engines that can be supported by us and would also be useful for the 110 kn engine project,” HAL Chairman R Madhavan told ET.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 25 Sep 2020 17:18

It is good we are having the option of RR VS Safran for a engine tie-up. RR wants us to tie up with them for the engine they want to develop for the Tempest program. We have not committed to RR regarding our participation so far. Whatever may have been the press briefings by the RR representative's it is not going to offer the TOT for free. They are expecting a substantial investment by us for that or else they will offer the engine to India under a glorified screwdrivergiri scheme only to secure substantial future business from us (AMCA+ MWF + other programs) to recover their investments by amortizing the cost of development over a larger number of engines.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby darshan » 25 Sep 2020 18:10

ToT implies one willing to give and another being able to absorb. Both combined doesn't seem to be there when looking from a product that will be produced beyond technology demo or a in a small batch. The well known queue of successful failures is always open to join. When there are many things that don't require ToT aren't being seen to be absorbed then not sure when and how actual ToT even if handed over will be absorbed.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby dinesh_kimar » 25 Sep 2020 19:24

“We are signing an agreement related to the technology needed for high thrust engine manufacturing. The technology will be common to the Rafale engines that can be supported by us and would also be useful for the 110 kn engine project,” HAL Chairman R Madhavan told ET.


In the earlier days, such statements were taken at face value..... nowadays our brf stalwarts would look for a facepalm emoji.

There are important points which can be nit picked from his statement.

Signing an agreement happens after studying the Terms and conditions.....pray, what are these ?

And even elaborate agreements signed in the past were not honoured. Safran owes us a Billion Euros as offset , it's on paper in black and white.


This technology common to Rafale engine is an obvious trap.

I remember the Frenchies coming to India one time loudly proclaiming " Scorpene submarine could be exported."

The word " could" was very important there, in that particular context.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby darshan » 25 Sep 2020 23:15

They may as well stop issuing statements. Not sure whom they really issue them for. Majority of citizens don't track it or understand them and people who track and understand aren't buying it any longer. They rather invest that energy and effort towards making something in India. Anything but made in India statements.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby arunsrinivasan » 26 Sep 2020 16:58

RR share price is at a 16 year low & they are looking to raise capital & they are going through difficult times. We could potentially acquire them or take a substantial stake.

Would it make sense for India? Any experts who can weigh in?

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 26 Sep 2020 17:34

Not a chance of that happening as the UK government will not allow it. Otherwise the chinese or a proxy Hongkong/Singapore based fund would have made their play long time back.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby darshan » 26 Sep 2020 17:39

Apart from ITAR like issues, would dharmik people even know how to exploit it after acquiring? If you just walk up to UK govt to sign off with your intentions in dharmic manners, then that sign off will never be there. One can start interviewing people for jobs though like how chinese did for everything that they wanted to build.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 26 Sep 2020 17:58

arunsrinivasan wrote:RR share price is at a 16 year low & they are looking to raise capital & they are going through difficult times. We could potentially acquire them or take a substantial stake.

Would it make sense for India?
Any experts who can weigh in?



britshit govt will never permit it under any circumstances

such assets need govt permissions and and maybe even parliamenary approval to even contemplate a change in the shareholding pattern

even in the TATA JLR deal, the technology of JLR was/has been effectively ring fenced from TATA, the owner of the company.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby brar_w » 26 Sep 2020 19:00

arunsrinivasan wrote:RR share price is at a 16 year low & they are looking to raise capital & they are going through difficult times. We could potentially acquire them or take a substantial stake.

Would it make sense for India? Any experts who can weigh in?


It doesn't work that way. Might as well also acquire Boeing and Airbus while at it because commercial aerospace is down at the moment. Ownership and control of strategic industries and supplier base isn't just handed over for purely financial/commercial considerations. A strategic investment requires a strategic level of partnership, first between the companies making the offer, and then between the nations where those companies are HQ'd. Look at when Lockheed Martin sold their entire Electronic Warfare business to UK's BAE. It basically created a completely firewalled BAE US subsidiary with a separate board and management structure. Same when SAAB of Sweden acquired a radar OEM in the US (one of the things SAAB had to do was move its RF patents to the US for many systems where it chose to partner with the US entity) or when Fincantieri of Italy acquired a US military ship yard capability. These things require a level of strategic arrangement between host nations which is a two-way street. And there are severe financial and legal considerations that firewall IP work funded in the host nation from being used outside. For BAE, even the HR out of the NH operations is separate from the rest of the company and engineers and leaders cannot easily go back and forth within the other international units of the company. It is essentially a BAE owned, but semi-autonomous/regulated unit within the company. Very profitable but not fully integrated in a way one would think in terms of pure commercial ventures.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby Neela » 01 Oct 2020 11:01

French jet engine manufacturer Safran has reportedly agreed to provide a complete technology transfer to aid the engine development

“We are signing an agreement related to the technology needed for high thrust engine manufacturing. The technology will be common to the Rafale engines that can be supported by us and would also be useful for the 110 kn engine project,” HAL Chairman R Madhavan told ET.


Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... aign=cppst

------------------
So many questions after reading the technical and contractual parts. But coming from HAL chariman, it does lookl ike a firm step. Step 1 was decoupling the airfraft project from engine project. Step 2 is decoupling high thrust aircraft engine from low thrust ones.
So what happens to the fully local high thrust project? We have given up it seems. Such a shame . Such a shame. This penny pinching did not happen for IGMDP.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby Indranil » 01 Oct 2020 11:23

Take it with more salt than in the entire Indian Ocean. The French designed Rafale and M88 to keep itsknow how intact. Much before the Rafale had any export successes, the French celebrated the DnD cost as necessary. There is no way they will hand that over to us.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby chetonzz » 01 Oct 2020 15:16

Indranil wrote:Take it with more salt than in the entire Indian Ocean. The French designed Rafale and M88 to keep itsknow how intact. Much before the Rafale had any export successes, the French celebrated the DnD cost as necessary. There is no way they will hand that over to us.

Hear hear...the moment i read that someone will help india build jet engine i wanted to laugh like that new joker movie!

No way we are going to build a jet that easy

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby Yagnasri » 03 Oct 2020 08:24

Even if such impossible thing happen, we will learn nothing from that. At least nothing critical anyway. We need to do things in a hard way i.e. investment of time money and political will. There is no easy solution.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby samirdiw » 03 Oct 2020 08:42

chetonzz wrote:
Indranil wrote:Take it with more salt than in the entire Indian Ocean. The French designed Rafale and M88 to keep itsknow how intact. Much before the Rafale had any export successes, the French celebrated the DnD cost as necessary. There is no way they will hand that over to us.

Hear hear...the moment i read that someone will help india build jet engine i wanted to laugh like that new joker movie!

No way we are going to build a jet that easy


If we know this then obviously the top folks in the knowhow also know this. The worrying thing is why are they playing this game that will lead us knowwhere. The Sukhoi game has been played and no one responsible for defense manufacturing is concerned. Why is history repeating itself?

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 03 Oct 2020 21:29

samirdiw wrote:
chetonzz wrote:Hear hear...the moment i read that someone will help india build jet engine i wanted to laugh like that new joker movie!

No way we are going to build a jet that easy


If we know this then obviously the top folks in the knowhow also know this. The worrying thing is why are they playing this game that will lead us knowwhere. The Sukhoi game has been played and no one responsible for defense manufacturing is concerned. Why is history repeating itself?


no one from any country (including India) has unambiguously ever said that that there will be a complete "transfer of technology" for the making of a military jet engine in India and by India.

Or even, has anyone ever said that we will sell such complete technology to India provided our such and such conditions are fulfilled or we want this in return for our cooperation.

From such technology, a civil/commercially viable wide body capable turbofan may well and easily flow including a marinized version of the same for a naval gas turbine propulsion system, a GT for a new or even a re-engined tank, long range UAVs, land based cruise missiles and air/naval/surface/submarine long range missiles and various types of engines for combat and civil helicopters. all this, if it comes about, may well and truly hit them right in their gora stomachs.

it is also very clear that there is not one single man/woman (or even a team of people) in India who is/are acknowledged as being capable of either doing this work or even leading such a multifunctional team to achieve this goal

no one in the west wants to fuel the rise of another china which was a grave civilizational mistake that all the western countries made while greedily focussing on the chimera of an insatiable cheeni market which would make these western countries rich beyond all human expectations.

These gora guys actually thought that the cheenis were dumb guys when in reality, the cheeni were cleverly playing them the whole time like a fine stradivarius violin, producing just the tunes that the foolish and greedy west wanted to hear.

nixon and his successors are fundamentally responsible for the presense of xi, with his paranoid delusions of cheeni grandeur, on the international stage today. The other western goras did their best to help in this clusterfcuk.

as far as the technology is concerned, we will get there eventually. no one will now ever part with any of their crown jewels and foolishly allow the rise of India.

Just look at what ISRO has achieved with it's erstwhile gora sourced engines and tech and how much further it has developed and improved their performance and how it is eating into the west's satellite launch business today and also see how our own military ballistic missile program, as well as the ISRO satellite series sitting in space, has become one of the most successful programs in the world today. Not to mention our own surveillance satellite technology.

Do you think that the goras have not noticed all this.

the hopeful desi faithfuls have long been and still are hallucinating about forthcoming foreign help and it is a pipe dream that any help in this venture will ever be forthcoming from the goras.

It is a sellers market run by a fully controlled and internationally cartelized bunch of source countries who will ride the huge Indian military market for as long as they can and no one will be inclined to rock this particular boat.

and pray, what exactly do we have to offer in return for such a technological prize. mere money will not do. what else is of interest to them that we do have to trade that may decisively tip the balance in our favor.

That may well depend on the country which has such a prize to offer and may be willing to trade provided some political or maybe even civilizational conditions are met.

The BIF have many set goals for India but allowing India to rise unchecked and become, in their minds, untameable and uncontrollable like china has become today, is certainly not one of them.

After all, the europeans, the britshits, the japs, the chinese and the muslim world at large, especially those affiliated to the erstwhile ottoman empire have seen discilplined and determined Indian soldiers fight and prevail in both the world wars and in palestine where they liberated haifa and subdue the pakis on multiple occasions and all these are first hand experiences and the IA and allied armed forces have drastically improved since then, ably and efficiently led from the front by a dedicated and committed officer corps which does not hesitate to take the fight to the enemy everytime.

Now India is nuclear armed as well.

Which is why we will continue to face a coordinated and world wide technology denial regime that is unofficially enforced by a western cartel including russia.
Last edited by chetak on 03 Oct 2020 22:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby prashanth » 03 Oct 2020 22:48

chetak wrote:it is also very clear that there is not one single man/woman (or even a team of people) in India who is/are acknowledged as being capable of either doing this work or even leading such a multifunctional team to achieve this goal


Chetak sir, I would have disbelieved this statement of yours if it were made maybe about two months back. But we now know that GTRE couldn't develop and qualify a relatively simple Manik engine for Nirbhay on time. We are now speculating that our RM may have requested for sale of more 36MT engines from Russia during his recent visits. Feel sad to say this but I think that our hopes on GTRE, for the development of a much more complex engin, Kaveri, were misplaced.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 03 Oct 2020 22:55

prashanth wrote:
chetak wrote:it is also very clear that there is not one single man/woman (or even a team of people) in India who is/are acknowledged as being capable of either doing this work or even leading such a multifunctional team to achieve this goal


Chetak sir, I would have disbelieved this statement of yours if it were made maybe about two months back. But we now know that GTRE couldn't develop and qualify a relatively simple Manik engine for Nirbhay on time. We are now speculating that our RM may have requested for sale of more 36MT engines from Russia during his recent visits. Feel sad to say this but I think that our hopes on GTRE, for the development of a much more complex engin, Kaveri, were misplaced.


In the fullness of time, we will still prevail saar.

be patient.

the juggernaut has slowly but surely started to move.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby dinesh_kimar » 03 Oct 2020 23:38

^Prashanth Saar,

I wanted to disagree , citing the proven reliability of the GTSU-110 starter .

However, GTSU-110 appears to be an HAL product, with minimal GTRE contribution.

Sadly, you may be correct.

The Kaveri was cleared for flight trails in 2013-14, but the present govt didn't allow project to continue, for some mysterious reason dropped it.

Parrikar Saar reposed a lot of faith and had a lot of meetings with some Indo-US jet engine group , supposedly for Full transfer of technology. There was a very prominent bloke called Ashton Carter, who could get things done. Our wisdom didn't kick in here, we believed wat was told to us.

The Chinese , for all their faults, have 3 (and not 2) projects running in parallel, for any nationally important program.

Their Bullet Train, for example, has Inputs from Bombardier, Siemens ICE and Kawasaki Japan.

This is a failure of current government, not to belittle Parrikar Saar's other contributions to national development.

UPA, for all their failings, got the Kaveri up to 72 KN, qualified it for flight trails in an IL-76 Test Bed in Gromov, and kept the project alive.
Dr.V.K.Saraswat even announced that Kaveri is cleared for certain flight regimes of the LCA.

Present Govt has announced they have stopped the project, it's only alive in Defence Forums on the internet, not many posts these days, only kept alive by stalwarts of old who sometimes visit ( similar to Athelas or Kingsfoil from LOTR).

I will go out on a limb here and state that UPA government did more for Kaveri than Modi Sarkar.

One small nugget, OSINT suggests the flight test of Kaveri was planned on an LCA, after engine was specially built with all checks, fully tested on test bed , fitted to an LCA made available, and made to undergo rigorous ground runs.

I'm looking for the relevant information to back this, will post as soon as I get it.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby darshan » 03 Oct 2020 23:40

prashanth wrote:Chetak sir, I would have disbelieved this statement of yours if it were made maybe about two months back. But we now know that GTRE couldn't develop and qualify a relatively simple Manik engine for Nirbhay on time. We are now speculating that our RM may have requested for sale of more 36MT engines from Russia during his recent visits. Feel sad to say this but I think that our hopes on GTRE, for the development of a much more complex engin, Kaveri, were misplaced.

May be GTRE has or may be it hasn't. Not possible to extrapolate performance of one team over to the other team. Teams within the same company can deliver different outcomes. One will need information not in public space. We all know that GoI hardly has provided budget for everything that's required to develop and test engine technologies. May be manik team had talent but didn't have political savvy leadership to get resources. Or may be it's other way around.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 04 Oct 2020 01:50

seed money is fairly easy to come by.

continued access to large resources and funding is always dependent on organisational credibility.

any project that has already run for 25-30 years with little to show for it has missed multiple chances to establish street cred many times over.

serious funding can dry up very quickly if politicos sense that an organisation has plateaued out and is going nowhere fast.

anyone not directly involved in hands on lab work are politicos and must do their bit to advance the aims of their organization with the means available to them and not simply consume scarce organisational resources in terms of wasteful perks and privileges.

thus defined, the entire executive leadership in any lab or project including those jockeying for power positions in dilli are politicos who must have the capability to successfully convince the next higher echelons of their credibility as also in their ability to deliver the next stagewise results in a timely fashion.

Abdul Kalam succeeded so well because he was, first and foremost, a clever politician in that he knew how to push his cases, present his organization's stage wise achievements, convince the powers that be of further assured progress and perhaps even showcased the failures as valuable lessons learned thus succeeding in keeping funds for his organisation and/or projects always flowing.

his willingness to discuss failures and see them as stepping stones to the next little success in the project chain is what kept him grounded and his superiors had implicit trust in him and his ability to deliver.

many of todays senior politicos can not even make a halfway decent presentation, let alone generate confidence.

when one has little to test, why harp so much and so loudly on test facilities that, just to set up, will result in capital expenditure of many thousands of crores not to mention the revenue costs and maintenance as well as, the recruitment and vertically specialized training needed to staff such an extensive suite of test equipment.

when they do get to the stage where they indeed have something tangible to test, rest assured that such facilities will be made available.

The horse must always come before the cart and never the vice versa.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby prashanth » 04 Oct 2020 19:19

Thanks Saars for your replies. So the larger picture is that successive governments/MOD and the bureaucracy were not satisfied with GTREs progress on Kaveri and therefore did not commit sufficient funds for development/testing all this while. I wish GOI had started parallel efforts through another organization/agency like HAL when they first realized this. Then again, hindsight is 20/20. What is the way forward for GOI/IAF now?

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 04 Oct 2020 20:17

prashanth wrote:Thanks Saars for your replies. So the larger picture is that successive governments/MOD and the bureaucracy were not satisfied with GTREs progress on Kaveri and therefore did not commit sufficient funds for development/testing all this while. I wish GOI had started parallel efforts through another organization/agency like HAL when they first realized this. Then again, hindsight is 20/20. What is the way forward for GOI/IAF now?


HAL seem to be working on an engine of their own.

no idea as to where they may have actually reached in the development cycle of their engine.


HTSE-1200
HTSE 1200 turboshaft engine model.png
HTSE 1200 Turbo-shaft engine model
Type Turboshaft
National origin India
Manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited
First run 12 February 2018[1]
Major applications HAL Dhruv
HAL Rudra
HAL Light Combat Helicopter
HAL Light Utility Helicopter
The HAL HTSE-1200 ("Hindustan Turbo Shaft Engine") is a turboshaft engine under development by India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). It is aimed at 3.5 ton single engine class and 5-8 ton twin engine class helicopter configurations.


Image

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby Neela » 05 Oct 2020 16:36

What I dont understand is this. Sri Parrikar said there is need for 4K-6K engines for the heli fleet. I am assuming he included engine swaps on airframes. This was 5 years back. NOw, Parrikar-ji himself (with all due respect) is stating what would have been known 15 years back.
How does a govt & bureaucracy NOT take any action and not plan strategic engine development program to address this?
When is the right time?

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 05 Oct 2020 17:12

Neela wrote:What I dont understand is this. Sri Parrikar said there is need for 4K-6K engines for the heli fleet. I am assuming he included engine swaps on airframes. This was 5 years back. NOw, Parrikar-ji himself (with all due respect) is stating what would have been known 15 years back.
How does a govt & bureaucracy NOT take any action and not plan strategic engine development program to address this?
When is the right time?


if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

plan with what, saar. :mrgreen:

except for the part where parrikar saab has departed, nothing else has changed and the same self serving scum are back to ruling the roost once again.

ideally and wishfully, parrikar saab should have stayed because one could easily conjure up a really long list of such govt & bureaucracy who should have taken his place (but gone on to a more appropriate and "warmer" destination) and no one would have even felt the loss

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby Raghunathgb » 06 Oct 2020 00:15

I still have the question why HAL did not take up development of HTSE earlier than HTFE. Clearly HAL has definitive needs of HTSE-1200 engine for all the helis it has designed LCH,LUH,dhruv, rudra and even upcoming IMRH. However good to know that sea level trials have been completed with htse. Hopefully we see first heli with htse at least in next 3 years.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 18 Nov 2020 20:36

DDM or real? I am going to go with the former. This is how HAL defines "ToT" :D

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 55685?s=20 ---> HAL's Koraput Engine Division makes the Su-30MKI's NPO Saturn AL-31FP engine from ground up, including the single crystal blades. The blades are made using investment casting method. Interestingly, HAL prefers to 3D print the single crystal blades used in it own engine designs.

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 01 Dec 2020 00:51

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 28673?s=20 ---> Kaveri engine project pushed up materials tech R&D in India by several notches. DMRL has managed to develop equiaxed polycrystalline blades, acicular polycrystalline/directionally solidified blades & finally single crystal blades. Notice the cooling holes on the SC blade (Pic 4).

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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 01 Dec 2020 00:51

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 41473?s=20 ---> DMRL synthesized Nano-structured Bi-layer Yttrium Stabilized Zirconia-Lanthanum Zirconate TBC. They successfully tested it for gas erosion, ablation & vibration damage. HAL Koraput was involved, that facility makes the AL-31FP engines. That engine was probably used for the tests.

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