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Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

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Arun.prabhu
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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Arun.prabhu » 19 Mar 2017 01:00

Man, you're something special. In a discussion about our homegrown jet engine project, you raise the spectre of castes and the God awful reservation system. Way to go, genius.

Rishi Verma wrote:
Indranil wrote:

Forget all the information he supplies, I love Mr. Gouda. He reminds me of one of my teachers. He knows a lot, but the way he speaks is very endearing to me. A perfect SDRE.


I am going to send this clip of endearing Mr. Gouda to the PMO office as its extremely poorly delivered in style and substance. And my request would be to refund my tax money. NaMo is known to stop the presentation if serious effort is not made to prepare it. I hope and pray that we are not paying dearly because of the disastrous reservation quota system.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Indranil » 21 Mar 2017 22:30

Jamwal ji,

That noise if unknown to the reporter. Otherwise it is called screech. It is well known problem in aero engines. It was known to GTRE folks from the tests in Russia. They have been working on it and according to people who spoke to JayS, the problem has been solved.

Your post, a news item does not belong to the Kaveri-"gyan" only thread, hence it has been moved to here.

jamwal wrote:http://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/03/indian-kaveri-turbofans-last-mile-problem-a-mystery-noise.html

Indian Kaveri Turbofan’s Last Mile Problem: A Mystery Noise

Decayed performance at high altitude, insufficient thrust, excessive weight. Some of the problems the DRDO has reported on its Kaveri turbofan engine, a project in development for nearly three decades. It has now emerged that an unexpected ‘noise’ during high power trials has all but stalled the programme in what the team believes is its last mile. Detailed analyses over the last two years have failed to narrow down the nature of cause of the noise, and scientists are also unable to tell if the noise is an influence aerodynamic performance. What Livefist can confirm is that the phenomenon is only the latest in a series of complications that have bedeviled the Kaveri. The noise the five engines specimens make in high throttle regimes is a key issue being placed before France’s Snecma for the remaining path to certification. Apart from the noise in the high throttle spectrum, scientists have also been grappling with a flicker, indicating inconsistent combustion or fuel transmission, when the afterburners is engaged.

On Jan 3 this year, the Safran Group created and advertised for the new position of Director for the Kaveri engine programme.

The good news for the programme is that the DRDO has been given a virtual carte blanche to channelise offsets from the Indian Rafale deal to resurrect the Kaveri. Snecma, a partner in the Rafale programme, builds the Rafale’s twin M88 turbofan engines. Under the terms of the partnership finalised late last year, Snecma is working to modify, certify and integrate the Kaveri on a Light Combat Aircraft airframe before 2020. A later phase in the partnership will involve modifications on the Kaveri for a twin configuration on India’s AMCA fifth generation fighter concept and an altered non-reheat version for the Ghatak UCAV. It is not clear if the Snecma partnership will stretch to the concept Manik mini-turbofan being developed for UAVs and cruise missiles. One of the Kaveri specimens was on display at the recent Aero India show.

VIDEO: India's @DRDO_India Kaveri jet engine at #AeroIndia2017. Now in revival mode with a tech infusion from @SAFRAN Snecma. pic.twitter.com/PR6TzlxN3r

— Livefist (@livefist) February 15, 2017

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby srai » 23 Mar 2017 10:42

Good read.

How manufacturers act as on-ground mechanics for jet engines in the air

...
Sensors, sensors, and more sensors

But even though each of these moving parts is carefully protected from the heat and motion they must endure, that doesn’t mean they will last forever.

So GE recently introduced a new method to monitor their engines once they are in use and attempt to predict how and when they will need repair. The first part of the new system is to create what they call a “digital twin” of every engine they build. During the design and manufacturing phase of the engine, engineers compile thousands of data points specific to each engine, which they use to build a digital model. This allows them to know exactly how hot that engine should be in each of its modules, what the pressure should be, and how fast the airflow should be moving.

In other words, each of the company's jet engines has a digital twin that lets the team back at the research center monitor its condition over time.

As the engine is built, it is equipped with about 100 sensors that measure its essential parts. For example, “The pressure and temperature at the exit of the compressor is a key indicator of the health of the compressor,” says Dean. They also keep an eye on the exhaust temperature, the speed at which the turbines are spinning, and how far the fuel valve opens.

Because his team also acts at the mechanics for each of the engines they build, they can then compare the data gathered by the sensors to the engine’s digital twin (which can be put through the same paces that the engine experiences as it takes off, flies through different types of weather, and undergoes regular wear and tear). If the two data sets don’t match up, then the engine needs servicing because something undesirable is going on.

One of the most useful parts of the digital twin is that it measures a huge number of factors that the engine faces throughout its lifetime -- some flights have more people on them then others (that will put more strain on the engine), some cities (like Abu Dhabi) have a lot of sand in their air, and some pilots push their engines harder than others. “With the twin...I can learn that the pilot is a cowboy and pushes the engine. The fuel burn we see will be different with different pilot. The digital twin remembers every one of those events. You can start to separate the fleet. Each engine has a different life experience,” he says. And that overall understanding of how each different engine lives out its life helps them tweak and change future engine designs. “It’s like personalized medicine. You can start to classify and see what works best for an engine that has a similar life. We’re beginning to use this to inform how we build new engines.”

Looking to the future

Jet engine design will face changes in the future. Right now, the company is beginning to 3D print some of the parts that go into its engine (they’ve recently acquired two 3D printing companies to assist with this). They’re also moving into research and development of hybrid electric engines, which will make jet engines smaller and more efficient. But there’s a limit to how efficient an engine can get when its basic design remains unchanged. So one way that the company is looking at improving the engine is by investing in research that completely rethinks how a jet engine works.

One new potential science, which several companies and research institutions are currently studying, is called the Rotating Detonation Engine. Essentially, this works by creating a series of small detonations and using the supersonic wave that a detonation generates to keep combustion going continuously. Theoretically, if the system works, it would require significantly less fuel to get the engine moving and keep it moving. And even with less fuel the engine would also theoretically produce significantly more energy. “The trick of the engine is containing [the detonation], making it stable, and having it operate at conditions you want,” says Dean. “Will it operate well, will it be durable, can it have low emissions, and what fuel can I burn with such an engine? We’re in the middle of the science phase.”

According to Dean it will be another two to three years before they can answer all of those questions and decide if this complete re-imagining of engine design can become an actual, working product. Until then, jet engine engineers will continue pushing their designs to be more and more efficient. “People talk about rocket science and how hard rockets are,” he says. “We’re running at similar conditions in temperature and pressure that the first Saturn V rocket burned for 3 minutes. We now have to have engines that [do that] for thousands of hours. We have to do rocket science plus.”

In other words, it’s not as hard as rocket science. He says it’s “as hard as jet engine design.”
...

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby PratikDas » 25 Mar 2017 05:56

The TU-142M is retiring and giving way to the P8I. Could it make a Kaveri testbed?

Image

Image

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby SaiK » 25 Mar 2017 06:20

possible, but it needs to be geared for that.. or converted. in the budget?

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby shiv » 25 Mar 2017 09:15

The Tu-142 looks like an aircraft on which you could fit a Kaveri any place and it would not notice the difference - it would probably just feel and itch and scratch itself - just sayin..

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Indranil » 25 Mar 2017 09:27

I was thinking about exactly this. Probably, it's too expensive to keep in the air.

This machine is one of kind. A true enigma. everything about it is unique. It amazes every aero nut I know.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Pratyush » 25 Mar 2017 10:51

All this is well and good but from 2008 onward I have been reading about the imminent success of Kaveri. But it remains no where near completion.

So the question that I have is this. A clean slate design for a similar jet engine that can have applications for the AMCA is initiated today. How long will it take to realise and mature. Can it be on line and certified by 2025, or will it take longer than that. If it is taken as a national mission with no resource held back.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Indranil » 25 Mar 2017 11:01

What's holding us back is not design. It is the materials.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby habal » 25 Mar 2017 11:43

Chinese have already shoehorned their J-11B in 1:1 config.

1 ws-10a and 1 AL-31, by the time we get our safran approved model up for flight tests, the chinese already have thousands of flight hours on their model, with lot of flight data to play with.

Except in case of imported planes and engines when all flight parameters are tested by end user, :roll: desi maal has to be 100% from get go.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby habal » 25 Mar 2017 11:48

Is there anyway BRF can arrange a meeting with Modi, ek white paper submit karna hain, and top of list should be flight testing platforms for kaveri. 2 each for cemilac and GTRE should be provided for further development of aero turbines. Also high altitude flight test centres built brand new from ground up, with technical inputs from ISRO. If we commit to something then ho jayega.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby ramana » 25 Mar 2017 12:12

Is it written?

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby habal » 25 Mar 2017 13:35

We can open thread for white paper, with contributions from all, end product should be compact, not more than 1 page. And facilitation & procurement of flight test platforms for indigenous turbine should be priority # 1.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Gagan » 25 Mar 2017 14:21

Have people seen Baba Kalyani's talk at AIS?
He has set up a 'Jet Propulsion Lab' in Bangalore and Pune, for jet engines.
His 25 kgf small jet engine is ready and is going for trials in the next few months. This is a small engine for UAV applications per him.
He is working on a bigger engine with 350 kgf
And a Helicopter engine too in pune.

He has employed ex-GTRE folks in Bangalore. The Bharat Forge group is even 3D orinting parts for them. This company works with all sorts of materials and alloys, including titanium. Pretty impressive presentation. There is another video of him with Shekhar Goopta, where he showcases the artillary systems he's built.
They have an ultralight Aluminium barrel 105mm truck mounted field gun too. He is making a 155 mm Titanium field howitzer also!

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby kit » 25 Mar 2017 15:53

Gagan wrote:Have people seen Baba Kalyani's talk at AIS?
He has set up a 'Jet Propulsion Lab' in Bangalore and Pune, for jet engines.
His 25 kgf small jet engine is ready and is going for trials in the next few months. This is a small engine for UAV applications per him.
He is working on a bigger engine with 350 kgf
And a Helicopter engine too in pune.

He has employed ex-GTRE folks in Bangalore. The Bharat Forge group is even 3D orinting parts for them. This company works with all sorts of materials and alloys, including titanium. Pretty impressive presentation. There is another video of him with Shekhar Goopta, where he showcases the artillary systems he's built.
They have an ultralight Aluminium barrel 105mm truck mounted field gun too. He is making a 155 mm Titanium field howitzer also!


more than anyone Bharat Forge does look like the one that is most promising !!

just see what Kalyani s credentials are as per wiki

""Babasaheb Kalyani was born in a Lingayat family on 7 January 1949 to Sulochana and Neelakanth Kalyani, a Pune-based technocrat and maker of auto components. He completed his high school from Rashtriya Military School Belgaum/Belgavi, formerly King George Royal Indian Military College. He attended BITS Pilani, from where he earned a BE(Hons.) in Mechanical Engineering in 1970,[6] and later Massachusetts Institute of Technology where he earned an MS degree""

small wonder !

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby pandyan » 25 Mar 2017 18:45

And he had to wait 2.5years to get approval for testing his gun. Approval never came so he flew it US to test it. Required ITAR and variety of other clearances. Thats 2.5 years lost. Only after seeing the video of gun test did local MOD and Army guys took him seriously

It will be interesting to see what flying testbed they would use. God speed!

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby SaiK » 25 Mar 2017 19:08

habal wrote:We can open thread for white paper, with contributions from all, end product should be compact, not more than 1 page. And facilitation & procurement of flight test platforms for indigenous turbine should be priority # 1.

Just do it!

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby NRao » 26 Mar 2017 02:55

Pratyush wrote:All this is well and good but from 2008 onward I have been reading about the imminent success of Kaveri. But it remains no where near completion.


An engine, perhaps, by itself, is the most complex machine. The problem has always been related to predicting an engines success. India is no exception. Perhaps the best path is to make work and then tell the world we have an engine.


So the question that I have is this. A clean slate design for a similar jet engine that can have applications for the AMCA is initiated today. How long will it take to realise and mature. Can it be on line and certified by 2025, or will it take longer than that. If it is taken as a national mission with no resource held back.


As you yourself have mentioned above, India has had little success with an engine.

They have accepted help with Safran from France to complete the Kaveri and mate it with the LCA.

On the other side India has requested to work with GE to update the GE F414 INS6 for the AMCA, work on which has started in Bangalore.

Both, IMHO, will produce an engine. But I very much doubt that they will provide the knowledge base for India to start with a clean sheet effort to produce a world class engine. For that, I think, India will need to seed about a 100 institutions and wait for at least 10, if not 20, years. And then hope they have a working engine. But, that, I think, would be worthwhile.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby ramana » 11 Apr 2017 22:42

Folks I am interested in more details of the Manik turbofan: diameter, length, weight, thrust, sfc and technology like by pass ratio etc.

later would like to compare to the Tomahawk engine i.e the Williams one.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Indranil » 11 Apr 2017 23:41

Image

Don't worry about this class of engines. India will soon have world class engines in this class with both GTRE and the private sector having a stab at it. There are two private sector entities which already have small turbofans in testing: Bharat Forge with a 1.2 kN engine and Intech with a 0.2 kN engine. They both plan to go up to 3.5 kN soon.

Similarly HAL And Bharatforge are both designing turboshafts of 900-1200 kW regime.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby JayS » 11 Apr 2017 23:54

There was a time when making smaller engines was more challenging that the big commercial or fighter engines. But now with 3D technology at hand the tables are turned. We should see proliferation of Jet technology in small thrust class world over in coming years.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby ramana » 12 Apr 2017 02:55

Indranil, Thanks a lot. I am not concerned with mfg in India.
I am trying to discern Nirbhay design characteristics.

For example Manik engine thrust is 425/311 = 1.366 times more than the THawk Williams engine. Due to this its sfc is 0/78/0.68 is 1.14 times.
Very efficient compared to TH engine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_F107

I know its hot tropical environment, but why ~37% higher thrust?
The Manik is shorter 900 mm vs 1262mm

The Manik Diamter is 360mm vs 305 mm. Does this mean bigger air intake?
I don't know the bypass ratio for Manik, but Williams is 1.0

As for engine efficiency
Manik T/W = 425/110 = 3.86. And they are trying to cut this down based on news reports.
Williams is 4.61. But is you see the picture the Williams looks quite complex leading to more cost.
Manik seems clean and all contained. So its cost could be quite less.

It has FADEC and integrated alternator vs. the extra add-ons for Williams.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby srai » 12 Apr 2017 06:43

^^^

Costs should be a big factor for these disposable engines. Lower costs the better. Single use application. ~1500km run is all that is expected. No need to invest in too much durability.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby chola » 12 Apr 2017 13:53

NRao wrote:
Pratyush wrote:All this is well and good but from 2008 onward I have been reading about the imminent success of Kaveri. But it remains no where near completion.


An engine, perhaps, by itself, is the most complex machine. The problem has always been related to predicting an engines success. India is no exception. Perhaps the best path is to make work and then tell the world we have an engine.


So the question that I have is this. A clean slate design for a similar jet engine that can have applications for the AMCA is initiated today. How long will it take to realise and mature. Can it be on line and certified by 2025, or will it take longer than that. If it is taken as a national mission with no resource held back.


As you yourself have mentioned above, India has had little success with an engine.

They have accepted help with Safran from France to complete the Kaveri and mate it with the LCA.

On the other side India has requested to work with GE to update the GE F414 INS6 for the AMCA, work on which has started in Bangalore.

Both, IMHO, will produce an engine. But I very much doubt that they will provide the knowledge base for India to start with a clean sheet effort to produce a world class engine. For that, I think, India will need to seed about a 100 institutions and wait for at least 10, if not 20, years. And then hope they have a working engine. But, that, I think, would be worthwhile.


Coming from the business world, seeding a 100 institutions works for things not requiring heavy infrastructure.

It does not work for things that do. There is a reason why there are just a handful of microchip companies and only two major commercial aircraft firms. The cost of building up the infrastructure and the subsequent eco-system of suppliers is too expensive to allow for any but a handful.

Building an engine belongs to the latter. No matter what we need to fund the eco-system that had already built up around the Kaveri. Yes, make changes to improve/enhance it but sending funds in a 100 different directions will simply dilute your effort.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Karan M » 12 Apr 2017 15:22

abhijitm wrote:We need to be bit cautious of judging people's appearance. Like what happened to Shobha De. Teeth could turn yellow due to heavy dosage of antibiotics in their childhood. Also irregular teeth can be hereditary.


I am sure this fellow Verma was not happy about Shri Gouda's skin color and facial features too.
Lets see, accent, teeth were already mentioned.

Do we need such people on BRF? Or are there further depths to fall.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby NRao » 12 Apr 2017 19:35

chola wrote:
NRao wrote:
An engine, perhaps, by itself, is the most complex machine. The problem has always been related to predicting an engines success. India is no exception. Perhaps the best path is to make work and then tell the world we have an engine.




As you yourself have mentioned above, India has had little success with an engine.

They have accepted help with Safran from France to complete the Kaveri and mate it with the LCA.

On the other side India has requested to work with GE to update the GE F414 INS6 for the AMCA, work on which has started in Bangalore.

Both, IMHO, will produce an engine. But I very much doubt that they will provide the knowledge base for India to start with a clean sheet effort to produce a world class engine. For that, I think, India will need to seed about a 100 institutions and wait for at least 10, if not 20, years. And then hope they have a working engine. But, that, I think, would be worthwhile.


Coming from the business world, seeding a 100 institutions works for things not requiring heavy infrastructure.

It does not work for things that do. There is a reason why there are just a handful of microchip companies and only two major commercial aircraft firms. The cost of building up the infrastructure and the subsequent eco-system of suppliers is too expensive to allow for any but a handful.

Building an engine belongs to the latter. No matter what we need to fund the eco-system that had already built up around the Kaveri. Yes, make changes to improve/enhance it but sending funds in a 100 different directions will simply dilute your effort.


Let it slide. You are not on the same page. Not worth discussing things in this manner. (Not saying you are wrong.)

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Gyan » 12 Apr 2017 21:13

ramana wrote:Indranil, Thanks a lot. I am not concerned with mfg in India.
I am trying to discern Nirbhay design characteristics.

For example Manik engine thrust is 425/311 = 1.366 times more than the THawk Williams engine. Due to this its sfc is 0/78/0.68 is 1.14 times.
Very efficient compared to TH engine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_F107

I know its hot tropical environment, but why ~37% higher thrust?
The Manik is shorter 900 mm vs 1262mm

The Manik Diamter is 360mm vs 305 mm. Does this mean bigger air intake?
I don't know the bypass ratio for Manik, but Williams is 1.0

As for engine efficiency
Manik T/W = 425/110 = 3.86. And they are trying to cut this down based on news reports.
Williams is 4.61. But is you see the picture the Williams looks quite complex leading to more cost.
Manik seems clean and all contained. So its cost could be quite less.

It has FADEC and integrated alternator vs. the extra add-ons for Williams.


Perhaps 5000km range missile intended to reach Chinese Eastern Coast. India seems to be developing 4.25kn, 3.75kn, 2.5kn, 1kn engines. Hmmmm.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Indranil » 12 Apr 2017 21:51

ramana wrote:As for engine efficiency
Manik T/W = 425/110 = 3.86. And they are trying to cut this down based on news reports.

We don't know what those 110 kgs include. I remember an aero india seminar talk in 2015 (or was is it 2013?) when a GTRE gent had talked about the engine. The talk also featured a gent from Saturn, whose Russian, this gent translated to English as well. Manik's specifications are truly world class. Whether GTRE can deliver them or not remains to be seen. The signs are good, but the progress is slow.

By the way, all the folks in Intech and Bharat-Forge's aero RnD positions in Bangalore are ex-HAL and ex-GTRE. Here the progress is stupendously fast. Another engine in this category (2.75 kN) is being developed by NAL/RCI. So, there will be no dearth of desi-engines in this regime.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby ramana » 13 Apr 2017 01:11

^^ From the slide you posted above includes the "integrated Alternator".

What is the power take off of 2KW? Power Take off is a PTO a motor axle to drive some rotary system. Is this for a hydraulic pump for the Nirbhay controls?

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Cybaru » 13 Apr 2017 02:00

NRao wrote:
chola wrote:
Coming from the business world, seeding a 100 institutions works for things not requiring heavy infrastructure.

It does not work for things that do. There is a reason why there are just a handful of microchip companies and only two major commercial aircraft firms. The cost of building up the infrastructure and the subsequent eco-system of suppliers is too expensive to allow for any but a handful.

Building an engine belongs to the latter. No matter what we need to fund the eco-system that had already built up around the Kaveri. Yes, make changes to improve/enhance it but sending funds in a 100 different directions will simply dilute your effort.


Let it slide. You are not on the same page. Not worth discussing things in this manner. (Not saying you are wrong.)


Let it slide? :roll: Thats quite condescending isn't it?

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby chola » 13 Apr 2017 02:58

^^^ NRao-ji did add that he is not saying I am wrong. Otherwise, it would have wounded my feelings badly.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Indranil » 13 Apr 2017 09:49

ramana wrote:^^ From the slide you posted above includes the "integrated Alternator".

What is the power take off of 2KW? Power Take off is a PTO a motor axle to drive some rotary system. Is this for a hydraulic pump for the Nirbhay controls?

Must be hydraulics + avionics.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Neela » 14 Apr 2017 11:58

Rolls-Royce, DRDO to tie up

Collaboration is under way between engine maker Rolls Royce and India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on the engine technology
.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Gyan » 14 Apr 2017 14:03

UK Should be asked if they want to help in AMCA & Kaveri version for AMCA. Though it's possible poodle might backstab us.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Neela » 14 Apr 2017 14:31

Saurav Jha‏
@SJha1618


Meanwhile, MIDHANI has successfully developed a Titanium alloy Yi26 forging for Rolls-Royce Turbomeca Adour engines in use with the IAF.

1:56 PM - 13 Apr 2017

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby JayS » 14 Apr 2017 16:07

Neela wrote:Rolls-Royce, DRDO to tie up

Collaboration is under way between engine maker Rolls Royce and India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on the engine technology
.


What the hell does this mean from this news..?

“The next step is to have a technology demonstrator in 12 months,” said Stephen Phipson, Head of Defence and Security Organisation which he said would be the “highest thrust gas turbine engine.”

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Will » 14 Apr 2017 17:41

Probably the uprating of the EJ200 for the AMCA. Can't be the engine for the Jags as it mentions "highest thrust".

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Neela » 14 Apr 2017 19:11

JayS wrote:What the hell does this mean from this news..?

“The next step is to have a technology demonstrator in 12 months,” said Stephen Phipson, Head of Defence and Security Organisation which he said would be the “highest thrust gas turbine engine.”

Shoddy piece from The Hindu where you cannot understand what is being said. The paragraphs before and after have no meaning and follow no flow of thought.

But it appears there is a plan to co-develop a high thrust engine. Saurav Jha seems to indicate the same in his twitter account.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby Neela » 14 Apr 2017 19:12

An article by Saurav Jha on the Safran consultancy is due this week.

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Re: Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

Postby NRao » 14 Apr 2017 19:34

When it comes to the "Kaveri", as compared to others, Safran is the one that can assist the most. Safran has been in contact, with the project, since 2008.

I suspect the RR effort is more a PMO type of an effort and unrelated to any specific current engine. They will probably have to start with some engine, but I doubt they have any serious goal in mind (WRT a plane), thus the 12 month self imposed restriction.

Engines in their previous lives are material science projects. Cannot escape that. And absolutely no one will reveal the secret of material AND how the industrial product is manufactured. So, even Safran, will deliver a Kaveri that will be more than good enough for the LCA, but will not reveal secrets of the materials used, nor how they are made. But India will have a 100 kN Kaveri.

Then for the next gen engine back to Safran, GE, RR, other alpha soups.

The goal, as it should be, is an engine. The means is material sciences.
Last edited by NRao on 14 Apr 2017 19:57, edited 1 time in total.


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