Tracking Errors in Defence reporting

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Tracking Errors in Defence reporting

Postby JaiS » 12 Dec 2007 14:06

This is a thread to track all occurences of DDM(*)'itis. Clear demonstration of why a news report is afflicted by DDM'itis is desirable when posting in this thread. Pointing out of factually incorrect data ( with relevant sources / backups ) is also encouraged.

To start, I would like to cross post shiv'ji's post in the LCA thread.

shiv wrote:This maybe for the humor thread. From DDM ToI - poor quality cellphone close-up pic of two different versions of the "Tejas" labelled "Winged beauties" with their "listening pods"

Image


* For the uninitiated, DDM = Desi Dork Media.

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Postby JaiS » 12 Dec 2007 14:21

Another instance of DDM'itis. Originally posted by A Sharma.

Tejas now one step closer to operationalisation

The Tejas Light Combat Aircraft programme has received a major fillip with the first successful flight test using the 'Listening Pod' which can provide the pilot with day and night pictures of terrain by laser technology.

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Postby krishnan » 12 Dec 2007 14:24

So whats next a wispering pad, i mean pod :P

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Postby Rudranathh » 12 Dec 2007 14:56

The worst DDM was the "torsion bar of the arjun that allegedly broke" that was confirmed from "sources".

Anyone has a link to that hilarious article.

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Postby JaiS » 12 Dec 2007 15:14

Rudranathh wrote:The worst DDM was the "torsion bar of the arjun that allegedly broke" that was confirmed from "sources".

Anyone has a link to that hilarious article.


Here you go. :lol:

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Postby K Mehta » 12 Dec 2007 17:02

This Listening thing shows how much knowledgeable our defence reporters are and how much cut copy paste happens in our defence reporting. On the other hand this shows somebody who prepared the primary report was using a word processor like MS Word with auto-correct mode on.

On the other hand it would be nice to follow the Listening meme. It will show which news papers share the same source, how much they modify the report or present the same without alteration. For eg. Frontier India, Outlook and Deccan Herald have presented the news As given to them by source, NO change in any thing
ToI has modified it, making it look like an "original" report, though goofed up big time with photo of Mig-21.
I dont know of any who have presented the correct form. FI might have corrected it by now.

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Postby Dilbu » 12 Dec 2007 18:49

JaiS wrote:
Rudranathh wrote:The worst DDM was the "torsion bar of the arjun that allegedly broke" that was confirmed from "sources".

Anyone has a link to that hilarious article.


Here you go. :lol:


Ah.. the god old American Express is at it again.

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Postby gopal.suri » 12 Dec 2007 19:24

To err is human.

Editors want to cram in all the news that flows via wire with gramatical and space edits. It is because of the work pressure. Defence journos too get letargic and are bound to errors, every one has good day or bad day. Every one has prespectives. Thats why I go slow on yelling at them.

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Postby satyarthi » 12 Dec 2007 19:38

gopal suri,

For a few years DDM kept on reporting the diameter of Akash missile as 200cm!

This wasn't a one time affair. As far as defense reporting is concerned, most journos are lazy AND incompetent.

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Postby gopal.suri » 12 Dec 2007 19:50

yes, they are lazy, incompetent, lethargic, corrupt. Throw the first stone, if you are not one of those. I am not trying to defend anyone, I just put in my prespective.

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Postby shiv » 12 Dec 2007 19:54

Kindly restrict this thread to links and posts of DDM errors and not rants. Thanks

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Postby disha » 12 Dec 2007 19:54

gopal.suri wrote:To err is human.

Editors want to cram in all the news that flows via wire with gramatical and space edits. It is because of the work pressure. Defence journos too get letargic and are bound to errors, every one has good day or bad day. Every one has prespectives. Thats why I go slow on yelling at them.


How about the "winged beauties"? Do they take the cake then on human error!

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Postby K Mehta » 12 Dec 2007 19:59

gopal
Any comment on my post?
There is some thing called proof readers. The thing is while defence journos err, you would hardly find any corrigendum or erratum being published the day later.
My grouse against them is not that they err but they dont even correct it. FI has a good short feedback loop with BR and also wants to improve. But such kind of thing is rare in other media.

ToI publishing an image of Mig-21 instead of LCA after so many Aero-Indias etc is a blunder to say the least, that the editor or proof reader was lazy in that case is an understatement.
Last edited by K Mehta on 12 Dec 2007 20:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby K Mehta » 12 Dec 2007 20:00

shiv sir
kindly allow some discussion (no rants) on this topic.

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Postby gopal.suri » 12 Dec 2007 20:20

Actually,

I am not trying to defend them. I just said, thats why I go slow on them.

disha,

My understanding with mainstream media is that its huge and short staffed. they do not mind mis quoating or over quoting anything. Sensationalismis business.

There other is specialised media. They get it 60-90% correct.

K Mehta,

proof readers are proof readers. they are not authorities. Litsening and litening pod does not make sense to them as long as "listening" spelling is correct. FI type is run by someone who wants to do something for a cause and others just want to earn a living. Some people in BR full time enthusiasts, this kind of broadrange knowledge alludes most people.

Like wise, a handful of posters are good at thesubjects in BR, some are moderate and some even less.

As I said, its not for defence of them, its why I don't bother about it much. We can stil post the DDM news here :D

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Postby K Mehta » 12 Dec 2007 20:50

making mistakes is common and fine by me. But repeating such mistakes and not even trying to correct them is not.

I have said earlier that the mistake has arose due to use of a word processor, thats fine by me. That it was copied over and over on almost all media is also fine by me.

The problem is are you going to find a correction tomorrow in ToI over the Mig photo? Is Outlook which got an award over defnce journalism going to correct the spelling? Will they not make the same mistakes over and over again.
The Listening meme has been created. It would be interesting to see its spread, reproduction and death if ever that happens.
Last edited by K Mehta on 12 Dec 2007 21:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby HariC » 12 Dec 2007 20:52

Here is my bit

Image

Lessons for the DDM. Take a look at the enlarged picture and the guns and read the caption below.

Not all Gorkha/Gurkha troops are with the Indian Army - they are there with the British and Nepal army as well. In this case its a British Army picture

There is nothing close to INSAS in that picture :lol:

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Postby K Mehta » 12 Dec 2007 21:18

haric
too good man too good
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Postby saumitra_j » 13 Dec 2007 07:56

Here's some more DDM
Report on Ashwin
The AAD, which is 7.5 mts long and has a solid rocket propeller with siliconised carbon jet vanes, has a range of over 150 kms and could achieve a maximum velocity of 1400 m/s

cheers,
Saumitra

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Postby krishnan » 13 Dec 2007 18:51

http://in.rediff.com/news/2007/dec/13missile1.htm
On the heels of conducting trials of interceptor missiles, India on Thursday revived its surface-to-air nuclear-capable Akash missile programme by carrying out its fresh test firing near Balasore in Orissa.
The multi-target missile with a strike range of 25 km and capable of carrying a nuclear warhead of 50 kg was test fired from a mobile launcher, defence sources said.


The missile targeted a flying object using Pilotless Target Aircraft Lakshya as support system, they said, adding that the PTA was flown at 1136 hours and Akash missile test-fired at around 11.55 am from the ITR.


Comparable to the US-made Patriot, the Akash missile has better features and it is completely mobile with capability to be launched from a battle tank too, they said.


Akash from a tank:-?

Desi Dork^1000000000000000000 Media

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Postby ajay_ijn » 13 Dec 2007 18:59

out of nowhere TechSAR became Indo-Israeli Spy Satellite just coz PSLV is launching it.
http://www.timesnow.tv/NewsDtls.aspx?NewsID=4674
The Indo-Israeli spy satellite -- TechSAR -- with a synthetic aperture radar (SAR) was aborted literally at the launch pad stage on Monday (Dec 3).
Images from the satellite would have significantly boosted India's intelligence gathering abilities.

other sources writing in same way
http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=411255&sid=NAT
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1136837

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Postby Kersi D » 13 Dec 2007 19:56

gopal.suri wrote:yes, they are lazy, incompetent, lethargic, corrupt. Throw the first stone, if you are not one of those. I am not trying to defend anyone, I just put in my prespective.


I have met some of the journos who write for Mumbai press periodicals. I cannot say that they are lazy.

At the best I can say that they are ill informed

At the worst I say they are absolutely ignorant. I had been to the aero exhibition held at Mumbai airport a few years ago. A highly knowledgble journo smuggled me on the reserved day. In no time my highly knowledgble friend and myself were giving a guided tour to the rets of the journos.

My first AE experience was same. The local DECCAN HERALD had 4 Mig27 on the front page with the title of 4 Jaguars. If Bangalore journos can be bad the rest of them maybe @#$%%@.

But do not forget one thing. The defence top brass WANT such journos who do not (cannot) ask relevant revealing questions. They simply print the press releases.

K

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Postby Dilbu » 13 Dec 2007 20:18

The multi-target missile with a strike range of 25 km and capable of carrying a nuclear warhead of 50 kg
:-o

Hail DDM :-?

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Postby HariC » 13 Dec 2007 20:23

Dilbu wrote:
The multi-target missile with a strike range of 25 km and capable of carrying a nuclear warhead of 50 kg
:-o

Hail DDM :-?


Explode a nuclear warhead over our own territory and do the enemys job for him? Score an own goal? - I tell ya, these DRDO scientists are yeeevilll :twisted: :twisted:

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Postby Ananth » 13 Dec 2007 20:28

krishnan wrote:
Akash from a tank:-?



It means Akash launch platform can be integrated on top of a tank hull. Look here: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/Akash.html

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Postby HariC » 13 Dec 2007 20:29

Okay this may not be shiv aroors fault as he says its the direct replication of the IAF PRO's press release (and photos) - Maybe they should share the award 50-50 (PRO for releaseing the photo and aroor for not catching the error)

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2007/12/ia ... rahar.html

Look at the Jag Pic - Looks suspiciously like a pair of RAF Jags .

Whats the fascination with British forces ? :D

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Postby Dilbu » 13 Dec 2007 20:31

Whats the fascination with British forces ?

I wonder if there is a lack of new and periodic release of IAF photos. Sensationalist medias might want new photos every sing le time. Again, I might be wrong.

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Postby ajay_ijn » 13 Dec 2007 20:47

HariC wrote:Okay this may not be shiv aroors fault as he says its the direct replication of the IAF PRO's press release (and photos) - Maybe they should share the award 50-50 (PRO for releaseing the photo and aroor for not catching the error)

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2007/12/ia ... rahar.html

Look at the Jag Pic - Looks suspiciously like a pair of RAF Jags .

Whats the fascination with British forces ? :D

the roundel on that Jag seems to be of IAF.

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Postby JCage » 13 Dec 2007 20:52

Just look at the cammo and the US ALQ 101 EW pods on the outer pylons. Those are RAF Jags IMO.

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Postby abhischekcc » 13 Dec 2007 21:14

DDM strikes again -

India test-fires nuclear-capable Akash missile

I wonder if a 20 kt bomb is enough to stop an F-16. :lol:

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Postby Rudranathh » 13 Dec 2007 21:27

JaiS wrote:
Rudranathh wrote:The worst DDM was the "torsion bar of the arjun that allegedly broke" that was confirmed from "sources".

Anyone has a link to that hilarious article.


Here you go. :lol:

Thanks Jai.
Here is another one.
Ashwin: New Surface-to-Surface Missile In The Offing?-India Defence Premium
Dated 12/12/2007
Prithvi II (Dhanush) is the Air Force version of 250 kms range and capacity to carry a payload of 500kg,

For the above to be true the IAF must deploy ships which fly in the air and launch the Dhanush missile. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

For those who dont know Dhanush missile is a naval variant of Prithvi missile which consists of a stabilization platform and the missile which is launched from naval ships.

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Postby Kersi D » 13 Dec 2007 21:52

JCage wrote:Just look at the cammo and the US ALQ 101 EW pods on the outer pylons. Those are RAF Jags IMO.


Is it a IAF or a RAF Jaguar ? What is the Jaguar carrying over/under the wings and fuselage ? It cannot be of French Air Force. All the weapons / pods under the over/under the wings and fuselage seem to be different or new to me.

Port Outer : Looks like as Tusker EW pods developed by DRDO
Port Inner : ?
Fuselage : Fuel tank ?
Starboard Inner : Same as Port Inner ?
Starboard Outer : Is the same Phimat ECM pod ?

I hope some knowledgble soul enlightens us by filing the blanks.

K

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Postby JCage » 13 Dec 2007 22:16

Kersi

Thats a very good point, from this angle, the Tusker and ALQ 101 look very similar. And after all, the Tusker is the Jags pod.

The items on the overwing pylons (imo) are Sidewinders w/o fins. The starboard outer on one of the Jags could be a Phimat (chaff + flares).

But what makes me think this is the RAF..is the roundels on the wing, clearly visible on one of the Jags. Blue outside...red inside.
Eg check:
http://digilander.libero.it/tuttovola/i ... %20gr3.gif

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Postby ramana » 13 Dec 2007 22:40

Dilbu wrote:
Whats the fascination with British forces ?

I wonder if there is a lack of new and periodic release of IAF photos. Sensationalist medias might want new photos every sing le time. Again, I might be wrong.


This could be the prime factor for DDMitis. The lack of material in suitable format forces the DDM to resort to silly practices like splicing US footage to DRDO footage in order to jazz up their reports. I think it comes from a desire to inform the public, but lack of local resources and have to agree with Gopal.

The services should have a periodic unit attachment for the reporters to get them familiar with what they do. The many Service schools can run short familiarisation course for the accredited reporters. A good thing would be to rotate the editors thru such courses so that they can pick up the errors.

Another action would be to write to the Editors that in a globalized world their credibility suffers beyond borders and if they want to be par tof that decline.

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Postby SRay » 13 Dec 2007 23:29

abhischekcc wrote:DDM strikes again -

India test-fires nuclear-capable Akash missile

I wonder if a 20 kt bomb is enough to stop an F-16. :lol:


NDTV syndicates the same story as rediff:
url

PTI seems to be the primary source of these eff-ups and they are also the source of our earlier listening pod woes. Kinda takes the 'Trust' out of PTI...

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Postby Nalla Baalu » 13 Dec 2007 23:37

Not to be left behind Mr. Dikshit claims, that
India says it has begun production of the 700-km Agni-I and the 2,500-km Agni II after development work and tests that lasted over a decade. A test of the longer range Agni-III, earlier this year, ended in failure.

Range of ballistic missiles to be improved

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Postby ajay_ijn » 14 Dec 2007 08:37

JCage wrote:Kersi

Thats a very good point, from this angle, the Tusker and ALQ 101 look very similar. And after all, the Tusker is the Jags pod.

The items on the overwing pylons (imo) are Sidewinders w/o fins. The starboard outer on one of the Jags could be a Phimat (chaff + flares).

But what makes me think this is the RAF..is the roundels on the wing, clearly visible on one of the Jags. Blue outside...red inside.
Eg check:
http://digilander.libero.it/tuttovola/i ... %20gr3.gif

yes but this roundel doesn't look like that of RAF.
green, white & orange
Image

Image

roundels on French & IAF Jaguars are similar to this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... Jaguar.jpg

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Postby JaiS » 14 Dec 2007 12:48

From.

India-Russia relationship hits a rough patch

Things, however, have changed dramatically. From 2007-2012, a resurrected Russian State Armaments Programme will spend US $50 million on military R&D.

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Postby Philip » 14 Dec 2007 13:44

It was in an ancient desi aviation annual,when the LCRA (light canard research aircraft) was rolled out.It was described as "an aircraft with its wing tip udders".Gives meaning to the old poem about the cow jumping over the moon!

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Postby shiv » 15 Dec 2007 08:18

http://frontierindia.net/dornier-228-to-be-relaunched/
Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) will manufacture main structural parts, ie., fuselage, emperage and the wing for the aircraft.


empennage, not emperage


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