India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

[Boreas]

Wouldn't it be better, if some amount of buffer money is provided to DRDO, HAL and other select PSU every year to develop ideas/weapon they think they can develop with the manpower/know how they possess or can acquire.

And make this independent of requirements of forces, let the scientists study best stuff present in market, add in that their own innovation and develop an end product or a test product. Let armed forces evaluate it, in case they want can order directly else suggest modifications. In worst case if no one wants it try selling it as cheap alternative in global market and side by side use it to further develop better future products.

One of the example is the decades old desire of DRDO to develop artillery. Why not give them free hand to do things like these!

Scientific innovation requires freedom, the current structure of approval-depended research will never let India surpass rest of the world in technology. It won't even let us match rest.

Babus will never have enough wisdom to identify and promote research in the areas where we will be the first to do something.

[Drishyaman]

^^^ They did something similar... Ex-Tank

[Boreas]

yes but they shouldn't stop, the aim should be researching for the sake of knowing technology, possessing knowledge. Say we got x-tank, nobody bought. Let it be, continue research on newer technology using it as a test bed. Work on active protection, better projectiles etc. Even if army procurement mechanism ignores them, they should be funded enough by GoI so that they continue independent research. If at the end of the day they are able to develop a better night vision system that can be used to upgrade all existing tanks.

What I want to say is don't wait for army to give some fancy list of requirements which will take 10 years to develop. GoI should continuously pump in separate funds to develop small chunks of technology, which may either be used as component of a bigger system (artillery/tank/ship/plane) or used as an intermediate-step to some future tech.

That way we will be able to gain true self-dependence. And it will let scientists innovate beyond the limitation of armed forces.

[member_19648]

What a lot of speculation to prove a convoluted point. Really what is your point, again?!!!

If I am paraphrasing you correctly, you are saying that everybody is somewhat content because there is no pressing need.

You couldn't be more wrong ... the LCA were wanted by the IAF long long time back ... so were the basic trainers.

Besides, Mahindra did not wait for orders ... it saw that there is a market and did the needful ... So did Pipapav ... there couldn't have been more positive news from those two quarters.

Please don't speculate to prove a populist point ... and frankly it is not about appeasing me or any other Indian

Sorry to bring the old flame up! Was going through this thread and this one struck me. Some comments!

1. The LCA wasn't wanted by the IAF LONG time back. When the project was first mooted, the IAF never believed in the credibility of ADA to produce a fighter. They thought India lacked the technological skills to deliver one. It wasn't backed by emotions rather hard facts through research on part of the IAF.
2. They thought it rather appropriate for HAL/ADA to come up with an advanced jet trainer something in the lines of HAWK AJT, which they needed badly. And regarding fighters, they thought its better to buy off the shelf ones rather than going in for Design/Development in house. That's why MMRCA which was conceived long back.
3. It was ADA and somewhat govt. backing that they decided to go ahead with the fighter development, and so if you see the trainer version of it, which was meant to cater to the requirement of the jet trainers.
4. Trust and confidence in DRDO/HAL/ADA was very low, and in initial days, the HAL/ADA people had to go to the services and request them to accept their products. It still happens now! (Tejas IOC without full readiness)
5. I wouldn't blame the IAF for their mindset. They are tasked with defending the country and R&D or indigenous development is the least of their priorities. They think in terms of their requirements and supply for that. They can't wait long cycles to get products and which they think wouldn't be the best in the market. Threats are very real and in present day, so operational preparedness should always be in ready state. ADA before that never had designed anything substantial and IAF did its own research to reach to the conclusions, and it was right. HAL Tejas did a hell lot of good to Indian learning but the delays and tech hurdles were properly estimated by the IAF.

And if you see, as many people have questioned here, why doesn't the IAF accept LCA mk 1 in its current config, the answer to that question comes from the snips above. LCA Tejas was not the IAF's original requirement. MMRCA was and now they are getting it. They would rather wait for the more developed LCA with better engine which they will get in a few years of time and which is as per they wanted. So 40 LCAs are their way of support to the program, and when mk 2 comes, there would be substantial orders for it.

PS: How do I know all these! I had spoken to a very high level IAF person who was in Russia to oversee procurements. Much of the above are based on his comments.

[chackojoseph]

LCA Tejas was not the IAF's original requirement. MMRCA was and now they are getting it. They would rather wait for the more developed LCA with better engine which they will get in a few years of time and which is as per they wanted.

PS: How do I know all these! I had spoken to a very high level IAF person who was in Russia to oversee procurements. Much of the above are based on his comments.

[Indranil]

Ivanev the point we were discussing when I wrote that post was that HAL/ADA can not be absolved completely for the delay in coming up with products and for not being able to see obvious markets. Yes it had shortage of money, know-how, technology. However, I feel that there is a lot of lethargy born out partially by the bureaucratic setup and and partly because of monopoly.

You are right on one account: IAF was not supportive of LCA to start with ... everybody here knows this ... and frankly I don't blame the IAF or the HAL/ADA. If I want a safe gas burner at my home, I have absolutely zero rights to question the IAF boys for demanding a safe plane to fly and guard the country with. Also I completely understand when HAL/ADA says that you can't expect a fifth generation plane by paying peanuts.

You are completely wrong when you say: IAF is being gorged with something they don't want to swallow. What were all the GSQRs for?

What I feel is the need to privatize HAL/ADA. We have to ascertain answerability to any job. We can not leave it to the values of individuals. Get money in, get products out. Keep it simple. Build up competing companies for the same product.
I often wonder what would have been the state of Indian aviation if the Tatas were given a free hand in the early 1900s.

[vina]

PS: How do I know all these! I had spoken to a very high level IAF person who was in Russia to oversee procurements. Much of the above are based on his comments.

Psstt. So the answer to this is for IAF and IN and IA to go buy Russian equipment which are not "ready" by any standards (Mig 29A/B , barely serviceable, largely hanger queens), whole lot of dud missiles, Club-M which simply never worked and which IN refused to accept and whole lot of equipment which in the last 40 years after 1971 Indo-Pak wars were completely blasted by western equipment and were in the losing side.. Heck, even Kargil was won with Mirage 2000s and Bofors, both western equipment, while the long massive list of Russian equipment were largely useless, and all air asset losses were Russian (Mig 27s, 21s and Mil helicopters!) .

So, the IAF should rather go and buy half baked Russian equipment instead and that will ensure the defense of the country. Touche!

And dont even get me started on that idiotic rust bucket called Adm Gorshkov which the Navy should have never gone for and built that indigenous carrier instead.. This Adm Gorskhov and the Mig 29Ks are going to be unique to India equipment and will be such maintenance nightmares that I doubt that both will last even a decade before getting turned into tin and aluminium cans respectively.

[member_19648]

@Indranil, I completely understand your point and second that. Actually I didn't mean Tejas was being pushed through the throats of the services, what I meant was that the push was for IOC for Tejas which the IAF would have wanted with some more features for IOC. It was stated in press releases and Tejas is well on its way to be in its final configuration. But if you look at the 80s, 90s, the confidence in HAL/ADA's abilities was low. Now it is changing with great products like Dhruv, Tejas! And Indian tech is well on its way to becoming competitive internationally! So the mindset will change eventually.

@ROTFL guy, apologies for the MMRCA part. I wouldn't want passing the buck to the person I mentioned, hes well respected and the conclusions drawn were mine and mine alone, and I might be wrong on certain counts. What he told me exactly was, Indian tech wasn't mature enough AT THAT POINT of time to build a fighter, and design/development would certainly run into delays and take a hell lot of time, so it was better to buy fighters off the shelf! Now you can fill in the blanks. Be it MMRCA or anything else, I chose to fill it with MMRCA. My bad if any. In fact if you talk to any older generation IAF personnel, and I am sure, you are in touch with many, you will find certainly they had low confidence in indigenous capabilities. But this is changing for newer generations, Dhruv is a very sought after name now.

@Vina, boy (or probably girl), please don't run into wrong conclusions and jump the gun. No one is advertising Russian products here. The much touted Sukhoi 30 MKI is a Russian product, needless to say anything more. Now please don't start the Indian contribution to it, I know of it and that's not the point. The point is, in 70s and 80s no one would help India even with a candy when the Soviet Union did come to her help with modern equipment. Ya they are now outdated, Russia is in crisis, there are losses, but contribution is a contribution. You can't ignore that. As for the IA/IAF/IN going in for outdated Russian tin cans, well I am sure, they are more informed in such matters than you, that's why their decision matters!

PS: I also did one mistake in my earlier post, the trainer aircraft would be IJT and not the Tejas trainer.

[Karan M]

Karan M, clearly you are an intelligent and eloquent poster and I appreciate your last post. Out of all the PSUs owned by the GOI BEL is clearly one of the best. But that is all relative. I think we all seek Indian independence from foreign arms. I fear on the current road we are on that day may never come. Given India's progress in strategic missiles, the brain power and manufacturing prowess (much of which is in the private sector BTW) exists in India today.

Thanks for your kind words. The issue is I fear one of the end (strategic independence & freeing our services from expensive imports) and the means to the end (which could be many, private sector involvement ramping up being one of them). The point I am attempting to make is please dont mix up the means to the end and make it the end in itself. Let me explain. You quoted India's progress in strategic missiles. To make this progress happen, private firms contributed but dont ignore the efforts of PSUs like BDL either, which dedicated entire lines to missiles - both strategic & tactical - in lieu of orders which may or may not come! Few if any private sector firms would have even thought of doing so and fewer still would have gone on that path. The profit motive is a double edged sword, remember. The same desire to make profits may make them compete - as you and others believe - all that much harder, but it also means a fundamental risk aversion to anything that does not guarantee profits & second, they will vote with their feet, if the usual indian test more test, design and develop, test - repeat as necessary procedure is followed! The private companies you are praising are SMEs - the world over - whether it be India or Europe, SMEs are regarded as technology generators, because being small and focused on particular niche areas, they can focus their investment heavily! R&D spends as a proportion of turnover, can cross into double digits. What then happens is that the larger primes - eg Boeing etc acquire these companies as they may run into cash flow problems (eg Boeing takes Insitu). The point I am trying to make is that being a large house comes with its own set of issues, one cannot necessarily have everything!

In India, the DRDO, HAL, BEL all have to varying degrees supported private sector firms. What you must understand is the aerospace business is probably the most problematic in terms of acquiring skills and ramping them up. HAL is now working with dozens of private firms to ramp up its programs, and it actually hand holds these companies!

So the PSUs and Govt Organizations are already acting as enablers not some sort of monopoly seeking evil giants, as the media makes them out to be. Yes, there are times when these organizations have tried to get their "GOI" edge to land orders, but then again, would the pvt companies be any better when it comes to pursuing large deals? I think they would have been every bit as competitive.

Now consider this chart. This shows the LCA work centers.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/29 ... a6gb1.gif/

Look at two things. One the number of PSUs, the second - that there are a number of private companies involved as well. Without the PSUs there would be no LCA, as the challenge happens to be in terms of investing in national programs where the payback period can be very stretched (take the saga of MK1 now becoming MK2 for series production) and technical capability. What you should gain from the above is that without the no questions asked sort of assistance from PSUs, a program like the LCA could never become a reality! Currently, its stated at ~60% local content (which given usual GOI standards of reporting - could be cost) - this is a huge achievement, even if it were 10% lower, because it implies a vast number of LRUs and components are being sourced locally!

Now, you mentioned strategic missiles. Why, these are the same programs the media, analysts, and many others - insisted, would not be any success because they were run by the incompetent Govt organizations.

But what is the reality? Multi billion orders for Agni, Prithvi, Akash, etc and series production as well. Plus, technology at the level of:
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... 261150.xml

IMHO when the GOI tries to do everything they risk do nothing well. It seems like progress is best made when no import is available. Perhaps the best solution would be for the govt to concentrate R and D on strategic systems and leave the rest to the private sector. Much of the problem in getting the private sector involved lies with the govt and even the armed forces. Requirements cannot be changed at the drop of a hat and the acquisition process cannot be decades long. Getting back to HAL, what other company on earth makes air frames, gas turbine engines, avionics and helicopters? Not a one.

Tejas, a few points.

Will begin with this mistaken (IMO) claim of strategic versus non strategic stuff. This is just totally misleading. What is the one and not the other? Technologies required are the same, or similar. If you don't do one, you will suffer in the other. No Akash? Then no learning experience for ABM. Former is tactical, latter is strategic. DRDO et al note "tactical programs were as complex or more compared to the strategic ones" - had to develop radars, software, tracked launchers not just missiles! In orders placed, which has had a bigger benefit across the industry? Prithvi (strategic) or Akash (tactical)? 16 squadrons of the latter and Indian companies are sustained for next programs! Point is much of this strategic versus tactical stuff is fed by people who have not even bothered to see the issue of technology reuse and how a country like India follows this.

As I mentioned, the Akash C3I is essentially the basis for the Brahmos! Both were made for DRDO (with DRDL providing design assistance) by the PSU ECIL, which is run by the DAE. ECIL BTW is a perfect example of how leadership not just ownership matters. It was a loss making entity till some decent management turned it around.

Now lets look at HAL etc.
Just because there are no peers to HAL in your sample size does not mean there are no other companies which are likewise. Please look to our north, to the PRC. In particular, AVIC.
AVIC first split into AVIC1 and AVIC 2 by the same logic you noted. Guess what happened? They merged the two again, when they realized the advantages of centralized planning were lost, technology was not flowing from one end to the other, and everyone was running their own fiefdoms. Today, AVIC makes everything. And its widely regarded by many as one of the big reasons why China is powering ahead, since it is so vertically integrated & ends up sourcing technology which impacts multiple programs. Things got to such a pass that AVIC could not even launch civil programs because of this concern. Hence, the creation of CATIC for the ARJ-21 and C-919 programs. But the point is that AVIC dwarfs HAL. They make airframes, gas turbine engines, avionics and helicopters.

What you are doing is to judge India by the US policy which allowed for huge levels of investment - easily on the order of hundreds of billions (may even be an underestimate by a huge margin ), allowing for the creation of many individual companies specializing in each. The US can afford to have a LM which makes radars and also makes aircraft plus have dedicated radar houses in NG and Raytheon. India is not the same. At our levels of prior investment, we had no option but to concentrate the technical expertise in a few companies. That automatically rationalized both Govt investment in production and also kept the manufacturing sustainable. Private companies may come and go. But the GOI was at least assured that it could keep these hard won areas of expertise running. This does not mean everything was perfect, we all know it was anything but (with bureaucrats preventing R&D in PSUs arguing they were meant only for license manufacture) but the point is the situation then - with limited forex, funding - meant the creation of a single aerospace complex had logic and was pursued.

Look at Soviet Russia. In terms of weapon systems, the FSU had technology which to date, the west is yet to match or pursue. They were masters of frugal yet effective engineering to produce lethal weapon systems. The other topic has an article on the MiG-25 - please read it, especially its production processes, systems etc. Again - take a look at how they operated. Design houses (like DRDO), working with multiple production agencies (like the PSUs in India). The Sukhoi design bureau worked with what are known as KNAAPO (Su-30 MKK etc), Irkut/IAPO (Su-30 MKI) and so forth.

Point is there are many ways to slice the bread. Please don't fall for the usual trap of looking at only a limited sample size of players in the west and assuming that they are the only way forward. There are many pitfalls down that route as well.

You may look at these to see the absolute fracas the so called private MIC has made of programs in the west:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/08 ... n-aground/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing-Sik ... 6_Comanche
Google for the recent issues faced with the JSF, the F-22 production (its cost), the Crusader program - there are so many that one doesnt even know which to quote.

What is the common theme across ALL of these programs?

The much vaunted profit motive. In order to guarantee profits, the US MIC deliberately pushes for and agrees to the most complex systems possible.

They push for subsidizing corporate R&D for future programs, via these existing ones, at the cost of the acquisition budget.

The end result? Totally dysfunctional MIC which a developing country like India cannot even afford to have.

It speaks volumes - that for all the talk of India's flawed MIC & imports etc - we are recapitalizing our entire fleet with new jets. The US is upgrading 30 year old airframes hoping the F-35 program turns around. The F-15 replacement, the F-22 ran aground on cost and now they are upgrading their F-15s.

Whats the point here? The point is that for all the talk of incredible technology generation etc which happens in the US MIC (which is true), their runaway method of military procurement, based on a bunch of private contractors, all asking for complex programs (to guarantee their profits), their method of management (military personnel jumping between quasi Pvt and Public roles running programs) has ended in a MIC which is literally consuming huge amounts of economic resources.

And not resulting in any replacements either. I just read that the helicopter programs attempting to provide the US Army with new helicopters have also been cancelled. They are now upgrading the 1960's built MH-53s again - for their special forces.

BTW Samtel is doing concentrating on OLEDs which is likely the future of all displays.

Yes, and good luck to them. But its going to be a tough haul to commercialize these to get them to the level of market success. Its not a slam on them but the industry, in fact electronics per se, soaks up money. Currently, LCDs dominate the large screen industry, and just as a pointer to how expensive these efforts can be - the flat panel industry, especially in Korea, has soaked up so much investment, that its yet to break even. Point being, this is a running race and India has a long way to go given current levels of economic activity. A company like Samsung is at the $100 Bn + level, with a 2011 plan of (if my memory is right) at the $20Bn investment level (Capital expenditure, R&D etc). The whole DRDO budget for 2010-11 would be somewhere around $1-2 Billion, wouldn't be surprised if it was tending towards the former.

The future of India lies in the likes of Samtel, Bharat Forge and L&T. Like the communist fossils in WB India no longer has a need for PSUs,

Tejas, please be pragmatic. India is best served by both the PSUs and the Pvt sector, competing with fair play and not just dominated by one or the other. That way - one side only etc - troubles lie. As clearly borne out by the examples I quoted previously. Also, comparing WB to the rest of India is besides the point, the conditions are not the same everyplace else in India.

What you should understand is the PSUs have a ways to go to improve and so does the private sector. Both can coexist and keep the other honest. Besides which nor is it pragmatic.

[chackojoseph]

@ROTFL guy, apologies for the MMRCA part. I wouldn't want passing the buck to the person I mentioned, hes well respected and the conclusions drawn were mine and mine alone, and I might be wrong on certain counts. What he told me exactly was, Indian tech wasn't mature enough AT THAT POINT of time to build a fighter, and design/development would certainly run into delays and take a hell lot of time, so it was better to buy fighters off the shelf! Now you can fill in the blanks. Be it MMRCA or anything else, I chose to fill it with MMRCA. My bad if any. In fact if you talk to any older generation IAF personnel, and I am sure, you are in touch with many, you will find certainly they had low confidence in indigenous capabilities. But this is changing for newer generations, Dhruv is a very sought after name now.

I have marked in bold. That was precisely wrong with IAF. They didn't have confidence in themselves. These people were not tuned to make stuff for themselves and fight. They were the problem and they were the judges too. This is one of my first article on the subject Indian Army and Air Force lack research temper . Do read this as the other perspective.

Another of the problems with Russians is lack of understanding. Recently the Air Chief said something on pilot training on Mig - 21. it was twisted by Voice of Russia as IAF Chief said that IAF pilots are poorly trained.

[shiv]

Interesting discussion even if it has ben discussed many times in the past.

May I add a piskological dimension?

The IAF is tasked with warfighting and are looking for readymade machines to aid that.

DRDO/HAL were tasked with taking 19430s engg tech forwards

If my aunt had a dick --sorry I digress... If the IAF was the RAF in 1914, then there would have been no "foreign supplier" of better goods. The "foreign supplier" was manufacturing and supplying to Germany. The RAF, French and German air forces had no other go. They simply had to depend on pindligenous tech for their requirements.

But my aunt dos not actually have a .. sorry I digress again. The IAF was tasked with warfighting in an era when the main adversary Pakhanastan was being gifted wah wah wah janaab high tech Sabres and F-104s. But the IAF had access to British and other aircraft industries, and they compared HAL with Hawker Siddely and the choice was a no brainer.

The DRO/HALs problem was that no private Indian manufacturer was going to suddenly enter the arms/aircraft manufacturing business and compete with Bristol, Hawker, Dassault, McDonnell, etc. They had to break in. But how could they break in if IAF had free access to foreign tech? They did not have the tech and the IAF knew that and wanted none of India's "Hindustan motors Ambassador car" rust bucket tech.

Ultimately there is no option other than:
1. The DRDO and HAL need to be kicked up their backside to produce and bust your butts you friggin clods!
2. The IAF needs to have some stuff forced down its throat.

It take 2 hands to clap. It takes man and whore to get the clap if you like.

[manum]

@ROTFL guy, apologies for the MMRCA part. I wouldn't want passing the buck to the person I mentioned, hes well respected and the conclusions drawn were mine and mine alone, and I might be wrong on certain counts. What he told me exactly was, Indian tech wasn't mature enough AT THAT POINT of time to build a fighter, and design/development would certainly run into delays and take a hell lot of time, so it was better to buy fighters off the shelf! Now you can fill in the blanks. Be it MMRCA or anything else, I chose to fill it with MMRCA. My bad if any. In fact if you talk to any older generation IAF personnel, and I am sure, you are in touch with many, you will find certainly they had low confidence in indigenous capabilities. But this is changing for newer generations, Dhruv is a very sought after name now.

I have marked in bold. That was precisely wrong with IAF. They didn't have confidence in themselves. These people were not tuned to make stuff for themselves and fight. They were the problem and they were the judges too. This is one of my first article on the subject Indian Army and Air Force lack research temper . Do read this as the other perspective.

Another of the problems with Russians is lack of understanding. Recently the Air Chief said something on pilot training on Mig - 21. it was twisted by Voice of Russia as IAF Chief said that IAF pilots are poorly trained.

Its required to groom the client as well with the consultant...If the client has never faced a condition of demanding something, definitely client is not aware of limitations...and client is demanding whatever it is to be developed first time by Indian industry...

I am sure a lot of complications were waiting to happen unforeseen...so we can not fault anyone in this case...

it was twisted by Voice of Russia as IAF Chief said that IAF pilots are poorly trained.

I am sure they used Google translator to translate Hindi to Russian...perspective changes Google way...

[chackojoseph]

DRDO delegation visits Canada to explore joint projects

[Kanson]

Considering Diwali, this Oct Tech Focus concentrates on Foods and Beverages.

http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/techfocus/2 ... 0_2011.pdf

[alexis]

Field evaluation trials of anti-tank missile soon

The above link is disturbing as it mentions the system for even LCHs which i thought/hoped would be armed by Helinas.

[Aditya_V]

Saab-HAL JV to go on stream in 6 months

Was just thinking, imagine that critical EW equipment for Paki TFTA Ereye aircraft is in the hands of SDRE Indians. Would not that be wonderful.

[VinodTK]

HOMECOMING: DRDO 2.0 triggers reverse brain drain; tech challenges key reason, claims Saraswat

By Anantha Krishnan M Bangalore: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is hit by a strange phenomenon. Often in the news for delayed and derailed projects, the DRDO top brass are now on Cloud 9, with hundreds of non-resident Indian (NRI) scientists making a beeline to be part of India’s gen-next defence projects. Confirming this reverse brain drain trend to Express, DRDO chief V K Saraswat said requests are pouring in from NRIs from the US, Canada and UK. Last year, we hired 40 NRIs and 400-plus are waiting to get in.
DRDO is also in the process of recruiting 2,000 more scientists and hopes to get the nod by the beginning of the 12th Plan. DRDO needs mighty brains to work on its big-ticket missile projects, including the Medium Range Surface-to-Air Missile (MR-SAM), and the Short Range Surface-to-Air Missile (SR-SAM). The MR-SAM project is worth around `10,000 crore, while the SR-SAM sits on a whopping 30,000 crore.

[VinodTK]

Tata Wins Indian Bid for Electronic Warfare Systems

Tata Power SED, winning a rare defense contract for a private Indian defense company, has been declared the lowest bidder in a $186 million contract to develop and supply two integrated electronic warfare systems for mountainous terrain (IEWS-MT) for the Indian Army.

Tata Power beat Elta of Israel, said Indian Defence Ministry sources. Of the four vendors earlier shortlisted for the trials, Bharat Electronics and Indian Telephone Industries (ITI) failed to clear technical trials.

This is a major breakthrough for the private sector to be a system integrator in an important electronics warfare (EW) program, which until now was the exclusive domain of Indian state-owned companies. It is expected to open a larger market for future EW systems for private players, said a TATA Power executive.

Tata Power this year also beat Selex of Italy to win a $260 million contract to modernize 30 Indian Air Force military airports, which the company said was the first win by a domestic private-sector defense company against overseas bidders.
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[tejas]

^^^ AoA

[Vipul]

Gun-mounted robot from DRDO to counter terror.

The tests are finally over and city- based DRDO laboratory, Research and Development Engineers (R&DE), is all set with the prototype of a gun-mounted robot which is capable of shooting with the help of small arms mounted on it.
“We have developed the prototypes of a gun-mounted robot as well as a disruptor robot which with the flash of water jet mechanically diffuses an improvised explosive device (IED). The tests are over and the products are ready for production. We have so far shown the prototype to Army, NSG and paramilitary forces and they have shown keen interest in the robots,” said Dr S Guruprasad, director, R&DE.

Yet unnamed, the robot, which can operate small arms and loads of other armaments including even grenades, has been developed by R&DE over the past two years.

“The platforms for both the robots are the same, just that there are a few modifications here and there on the basis of the mountings. The experiences of having developed Daksha helped us while working on this robot as well,” said Guruprasad.

Earlier, R&DE in collaboration with Dynalog India Limited had developed Remotely Operated Vehicle (ROV) Daksh, 20 of the Limited Series Production (LSP), which were ordered by the Indian Army. Talking to The Indian Express earlier, sources in the Indian Army had said that there were a few technical suggestions regarding ROV Daksha but Guruprasad said, “All the changes are made and the LSP will soon be completed.”

The evident shift of focus on part of DRDO from developing ‘only’ for the defence forces to even paramilitary and civilian applications is visible at R&DE. The laboratory is also working on developing sensors, filters and actuators for protecting civilian structures such as hospitals, temporary rescue camps set up by the paramilitary forces in case of Nuclear - Biological - Chemical (NBC) or radiation outburst.

“The client in this case will be government rescue agencies, who can secure their establishments using the technology. This will ensure these establishments are not contaminated by the radiations or NBC contamination in the surroundings,” added Guruprasad. The laboratory is also setting up a building to test the developments regarding the same.

[SaiK]

http://www.bharatrakshak.com/NEWS/newsr ... wsid=16307
awesome story.. GoI should give more tax breaks for these companies.

[ramana]

http://www.bharatrakshak.com/NEWS/newsr ... wsid=16307
awesome story.. GoI should give more tax breaks for these companies.

Vacuum chamber TIG welding using robot manipulators is great stuff. The challenge is to avoid contamination of the welds as they are used for high temp applications in the engine. Most likely the process is used elsewhere in critical applications!

[VinodTK]

BAE Systems careful in expanding HAL role in Hawk

Public sector aeronautical giant Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is in talks with BAE Systems about an expanded role in building Hawk jet trainers for the global market. A month after the UK-headquartered giant effectively shut down a decades-old UK production line for Hawks, HAL says that a share of that could move to the Hawk production line in Bangalore.

Transferring production to Bangalore is logical, says HAL’s chief, with the Indian Air Force emerging as the largest operator of the Hawk advanced jet trainer (AJT) outside the UK. Close to 150 Hawks will wear the IAF roundels: an initial order for 66 Hawks, bought for Rs 6,600 crore in 2004; and another 57 contracted last year for Rs 5,500 crore. A third order for 21 more Hawks is currently being processed. Other than the first 24 Hawks that were imported ready built, HAL Bangalore will be manufacturing the rest.

“Last year, while negotiating the contract for 57 Hawks, BAE Systems wanted to give HAL additional work in building Hawks in the future. If BAE Systems gets a fresh Hawk order, HAL is looking for a large role in that build. What exactly, is still being discussed,” HAL chief, Ashok Nayak, told Business Standard.
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[D Roy]

Jingoes, your diwali gift is here.

the ARDE’s plan to undertake the ambitious
155 mm Towed Artillery Gun System (TAGS) and 60+
Pinaka Rocket System in the near future.

Indo-Kyrgyz collaborative
study on acclimatisation of different ethnic groups
at high altitude, and Indo-Soviet Project, HIMDOM,
on acclimatisation of tropical people to severe
cold stress in the arctic environment. He has been
instrumental in the establishment of Kyrgyz-Indian
Mountain Biomedical Research Centre in Kyrgyzthan
and DRDO-BU Centre for Life Sciences in Bharathiar
University, Coimbatore.

the joint DRDO-IDS-Services task
teams on roadmap for UAVs, which culminated in
finalisation of the draft QR for a long-range subsonic
cruise vehicle (SCV). In 2004, he initiated a project
for the development of a SCV. As Project Director,
he has been coordinating the design, development,
integration and testing activities at ADE, GTRE,
ASL, RCI, HEMRL, ARDE, R&DE (E), TBRL, and
ITR. The system is currently being prepared for its
maiden launch in December 2011.

projects like Advanced Panoramic Sonar Hull-mounted
(APSOH) System at NPOL; Doordrishti, a Command
Control and Communication System for remotely
piloted vehicles and Image Bandwidth Compression
System for video signals

who started research
activities in the field of nuclear electromagnetic pulse
(NEMP) and high-power microwave (HPM) in India. Dr
Pandey has also worked on electromagnetic design
of various radar systems.

medium- and long-range tactical
missiles like Agni, Prithvi, BrahMos, ANSP, Astra,

India’s totally indigenous multi-satellite
constellation receiver (GPS+GLONASS+GAGAN)
for high-dynamic applications. He has also developed
India’s first miniaturised, 500 fibre-optic gyro-based
INS+GPS (FINGS) system. Currently, he is working
on MEMS-based miniaturised INS+GPS+GLONASS+
Magnetometer System (MINGS)

do not miss the photo section at the end.

http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/nl/2011/NL_Oct_2011_web.pdf

[Shrinivasan]

^^^ Thanks D Roy, even if some of these fructify in the next 6 months it is indeed a Diwali gift to the nation...

[shukla]

HAL invites merchant bankers for IPO process

It's transition time indeed at Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd with a disinvestment plan rolling out even as Mr Ashok Nayak retired on Monday to be shortly succeeded by arguably a rank outsider as its Chairman.

The Department of Disinvestment has invited proposals from merchant bankers to advise it on the public issue of HAL – so far the only defence PSU that is not listed on the bourses. A recent notification said it would appoint two domestic and two international Category-1 bankers as lead managers for the issue.

On Monday, the Department of Disinvestment revised the presentations by merchant bankers date to November 14 and 15 from earlier proposal of November 10 and 11.

INTERIM CHAIRMAN
As per a September 12 decision, HAL is to offload 10 per cent of Government holding, which amounts to 1.205 crore shares. It will include bonus shares before disinvesting and some discount on the issue price for eligible employees and retail investors.

On October 13, the Public enterprises Selection Board picked Mr R.K.Tyagi, CMD of Pawan Hans Helicopters, as HAL's next Chairman. Until the formalities are cleared for Mr Tyagi, HAL's senior-most director, Mr P.V. Deshmukh, will officiate as its chairman from November 1.

HAL said Mr Deshmukh would also continue to be Managing Director (MiG Complex).

While top ranking IAF officers have regularly been at the helm of HAL, [and IAF, as HAL's primary customer, is considered `family'] the incoming chief, Mr Tyagi, is reckoned as the first “unconnected” or outsider Chairman. Many senior directors retire in 2012 or soon; and the selection rules say an “insider” should have two years of service left to be eligible for the top post.

HAL, with a turnover of Rs 13,000 crore in the last fiscal, is billed as Asia's largest aircraft company. It makes a range of military fighter planes and helicopters for the Armed Forces and has developed the indigenous Dhruv light helicopter for civil purposes, too.

It has orders of around Rs 75,000 crore, among them the Sukhoi and the light Tejas fighters; advanced light helicopters and Hawk advanced jet trainers besides systems ordered by commercial aircraft majors like Boeing and Airbus.

A veteran HAL official said with the public issue, “The government will be able to get back some of its old investment at present value, but it will take a while.” The finances were comfortable now but the upcoming FGFA and MMRCA programmes (fifth-generation fighter programme and the medium multi-role combat aircraft) would be capital-intensive and going public would offset the expenses, the person said asking not to be named.

[A Sharma]

BDL makes component for Nag missile

HYDERABAD: The city-based Bharat Dynamics Ltd has productionised Imaging Infra Red Seekers (IIRS) for Nag, the third-generation anti-tank guided missile.

The technology for IIRS was developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation.

IIRS is a very sophisticated system used for missile guidance.

The first batch of IIRSs was handed over to P Venugopalan, director of DRDL, by BDL's CMD Maj Gen Ravi Khetarpal VSM (Retd), on Tuesday.

These Seekers will be used for the forthcoming developmental trials of helicopter-launched Nag (Helina), another variant of the missile being developed by the DRDO

[SaiK]

http://www.bharatrakshak.com/NEWS/newsr ... wsid=16442
Is this Tata SED's own product or a tie up with DRDO/some firang co?

[Vipul]

Missile-maker Bharat Dynamics Ltd on expansion drive.

A swelling order book has put defence public sector undertaking, Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL), a company that makes a range of missiles for India's defence services, on an expansion drive.India's missile maker, Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL), has booked 500 acres of land at the Maharashtra Industrial Development Corporation's (MIDC) estate at Amravati, with the intention of producing air defence missiles.

It has already bagged a Rs14,000 crore order to produce Akash surface-to-air missiles for the Indian Army, and this huge order, coupled with a smaller sized order for the same missile from the Indian Air Force is one of the main reasons for the company seeking to establish new manufacturing facilities.

The new units are expected to become operational from 2015-16 onwards with Amravati likely to be the first. The PSU will be opening five new units entailing a total investment of up to Rs4000 crore.The expansion drive is expected to result in the creation of hundreds of new jobs.

Currently BDL has units in Hyderabad and Medak districts in Andhra Pradesh. The major part of work on Akash is expected to continue in Hyderabad itself. There are other orders that can include long range missiles and air-to-air missiles.Work on Amravati site may start in April 2012 with production likely to start in three years.

BDL's other unit is coming up at Ibhrahimpattnam in the Ranga Reddy district close to Hyderabad. This unit is likely to become operational along with the new facility at Amravati, said BDL officials.The company is also in the process of acquiring 500-600 acres of land in Anantpur and Chitoor districts of Andhra Pradesh. Each of these new unit will entail an investment of up to Rs800 crore.

BDL has also acquired a 10-acre plot at Vishakhapatnam for the manufacture of torpedoes for the Indian Navy.BDL, well known as a maker of surface-to-surface 'Prithvi' missiles, produces the entire range of India's tactical and strategic missiles, including the 'Agni' series.It has produced an upgraded version of the Nag anti-tank missile, which has a fire-and-forget capability, said BDL officials.

This defence PSU commenced operations in 1970 by producing the first generation missiles in collaboration with France and the erstwhile USSR.

[pragnya]

only had the opportunity to explore the forum now as was caught up professionally. great last couple of posts Karan M 'as always'. you are really special.

[ramana]

DRDO Science Spectrum 2010:

http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/dss/2010/dss2010.pdf

Has lost of good stuff on progress in various Defence related areas in DRDO.
~340 pages of papers in 2010.

[Vipul]

India in high grade titanium league: Saraswat.

India has joined a select group of nations in developing high purity aeronautical grade of titanium for space and defence applications.

This was disclosed here to reporters by Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister V.K. Saraswat, after inaugurating the 65th annual technical meeting of the Indian Institute of Metals (IIM) at Shamirpet near here on Sunday. He said the technology was developed by the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL) and transferred to Kerala Metals and Minerals Ltd which was setting up a 500-tonne year capacity plant. The product produced by KMML would in turn be converted into a finished product by MIDHANI (Mishra Dhatu Nigam) for use in space and defence applications.

DMRL director G. Malkondiah said the technology was developed after two-decade-long research.

M. Narayana Rao, Chairman and Managing Director, MIDHANI said the newly developed titanium was an import substitution product and only four other countries — United States, Russia, Japan and Kyrgyzstan had the knowhow to produce aeronautical grade titanium.

Dr. Saraswat said DMRL had also developed special steel for missiles and space components. Mr. Narayana Rao, who is the president of IIM, urged metallurgists to develop new and innovative materials with improved design for the products to be competitive. He said that reduce, re-use and recycle should be the watchwords.

Later, Dr. Saraswat presented IIM awards to scientists for their distinguished services for research and education in the field of metallurgy.

[abhishek_sharma]

Centre, Odisha govt spar over defence hub

[chackojoseph]

DRDO conducts National Workshop on Nanotechnology for Defence Applications

DRDO bags Thomson Reuters India Innovation Award 2011

[chackojoseph]

Mahindra Telephonics JV to make radar and surveillance systems, Identification Friend or Foe devices and communication systems

[Aditya_V]

Mahindra Telephonics JV to make radar and surveillance systems, Identification Friend or Foe devices and communication systems

From the Like, I remember having made a post whether we are getting Offsets for FMS purchases, the link shows how were getting it.

Telephonics has already established a presence in the Indian defence and civil markets. For example, Telephonics supplies RDR-1400 weather avoidance radar systems for helicopters being built in Bangalore, India. It is also contracted to supply Boeing with APS – 143C (V)3 Multi-Mode Radars (MMR) for India’s P-8i Maritime Surveillance aircraft, and is responsible for installation of a sophisticated intercommunication systems for the C-17 Globemaster contracted for by the Indian Air Force.

The JV envisages establishing a plant in India which would manufacture and service airborne radar systems that are already being supplied to Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and to support airborne maritime surveillance systems for the Indian Navy and Coast Guard. The JV will license technology from Telephonics for use on a wide range of products that have both defence and civil applications.

[ManuJ]

Tucked away in this article:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 786545.cms

"We are developing a composite hull for armoured combat vehicle, which will be ready for show next year. Cost-wise, the composite armoured vehicle may be expensive compared to vehicles with steel chassis, but performance-wise, the advantages will be in multiples," he added.

"The composite hull combat vehicles will not only offer the same protection that is provided by conventional steel chassis vehicles, but will be 30% less, which means greater convenience for movement. These vehicles will have better maneuverability in terms of amphibious and land operations and no infra-red or radio-frequency signatures vis-a-vis detection by enemy," said Guruprasad.

The R&DE is further developing a 26-metre mobile bridge, made of composite structure, for movement of army's main battle tank. "This project will be ready next year," Guruprasad said, and pointed out, "The R&DE has already developed 5 and 10-metre mobile bridges for applications by the army and the same are undergoing trials."

[VinayG]

DRDO wins Thomson Reuters innovation award

India's premier military weapons developer, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), was Thursday awarded the Thomson Reuters India Innovation Award for 2011 in recognition of its work in the field of science and technology.

The award was presented to DRDO by Minister of State for Science and Technology Ashwani Kumar at an event organised here by Thomson Reuters and the Confederation of Indian Industry, a release said.

[uddu]

Tucked away in this article:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 786545.cms

""The composite hull combat vehicles will not only offer the same protection that is provided by conventional steel chassis vehicles, but will be 30% less, which means greater convenience for movement. These vehicles will have better maneuverability in terms of amphibious and land operations and ."

Average calculations
If this means weight rather than size, then the Arjun can weigh around 40 tons. Far less than the T-90 that weights around 47 tons. Even if Arjun weighs around 47 tons, its going to kill the argument of T-90 being lighter and Arjun heavier. And the argument of having the need to have T-90 seizes. The army can order the mass production of Arjun MKII and remove all the other tanks from service.
Another important factor is the Abhay will weigh around 16 tons making it equivalent in weight to the BMP's. Lesser armour needed may lead to more space inside or will reduce the size of the vehicle to a certain extent. A huge development. Need to speed up the process and make it available for mass production of armored vehicles.
Added later: This may be the reason for higher cost of Arjun MKII. Hopes mass production in thousands of tanks can bring down he cost as well.

[akimalik]

The composite hull combat vehicles will not only offer the same protection that is provided by conventional steel chassis vehicles, but will be 30% less

Imagine the implications for LCA .