India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Virupaksha » 22 Jan 2010 06:18

suraj p wrote:DRDO must focus its energy and money to develop cutting edge electronic warfare and arms, then come to saving lives

Leave biotechnology and nanotechnology to IISc and IITs for the moment.

War has always been at the cutting edge of medicine. One would be foolish to deny it.

Food processing: the non-freezed indian curries available in supermarkets was developed so that soldiers could eat them in Siachen.
The concept of nurses and first aid was developed during war.

Electronic warfare is not the be all of warfare. Many of the biotechnology and nano techs being developed in US/India were funded at their crucial non-remunarative stage by DARPA/defence forces.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby SaiK » 22 Jan 2010 22:14

I guess nano-tech can bring in denser materials for say a lighter weight arjun having the same specs.correct?

--

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... epage=true
We need anti-drone batteries now in addition to namica.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby sumshyam » 26 Jan 2010 13:00

Posting in full..!
Indian Research Agency Agrees to Tech Transfers

NEW DELHI - India's state-owned Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has begun transferring technologies to India's private sector in hopes the move will lead to new products based on these technologies for the Indian military.

DRDO signed memoranda of understanding (MoUs) on Jan. 25 with seven private-sector companies under a program with the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industries (FICCI) lobbying group - the DRDO-FICCI Accelerated Technology Assessment and Commercialization (ATAC) Program.

"The ATAC, a joint initiative of DRDO and FICCI, is aimed at helping industries to absorb high-quality DRDO technologies and apply them commercially to produce quality and reliable industrial products at an affordable cost to the consumer," FICCI said in an official news release.

DRDO signed MoUs with Jyothy Laboratories Ltd. and Alkali Metals Ltd. for multi-insect repellant; Jyothy Laboratories for wool care; Vantage Security for explosive detection gear; Deltapure Water India Ltd. and Ariva Group for a reverse osmosis-based water purification system; MGM Associates for a high-altitude pulmonary edema chamber; and GSC Glass Ltd. for electrochromic windows.

DRDO has 50 laboratories working on 439 projects that are worth $3.7 billion. The labs, mostly in southern India, are manned by more than 30,000 employees.

Currently, DRDO is engaged in several research and development activities also being carried out by other state-owned agencies, such as the Indian Institutes of Technology, or by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. and other state-owned defense companies.

Some key DRDO projects in the pipeline include the missile development program under the Integrated Guided Missile Program launched in the 1980s - theater missiles, the Nag anti-tank missile and Quick Reaction Missile, and the ballistic missile program, including the 3,000-kilometer-range Agni-3; the Sagarika cruise missile program; an advanced UAV project; an Airborne Warning and Control System program for the Indian Air Force; a mini nuclear submarine project for the Indian Navy; Light Combat Aircraft; and Medium Combat Aircraft.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Rahul M » 26 Jan 2010 13:08

Leave biotechnology and nanotechnology to IISc and IITs for the moment.
if they are able do the job that DRDO does, namely create products that are unique to our requirements. unfortunately these places are not at all geared towards creating usable products.

as a matter of fact DRDO's bio-related labs are some of the most successful ones.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby animesharma » 26 Jan 2010 15:10

Rahul M wrote:
Leave biotechnology and nanotechnology to IISc and IITs for the moment.
if they are able do the job that DRDO does, namely create products that are unique to our requirements. unfortunately these places are not at all geared towards creating usable products.

as a matter of fact DRDO's bio-related labs are some of the most successful ones.


IMO, The success of DRDO bio-related labs can't be replicated in the way you mentioned. The better way will be DRDO setting up mini Labs or contact center in these institutes which can coordinate a joint research process. Institute based research can be more productive if they are integrated to DRDO labs. I am suggesting to similar initiatives taken by Private high tech MNCs and few Indian firms. Their objective is to fund such joint research initiatives to train students and faculties and then progress the institute as an out of company research labs.

Some private institutes, like International Institute of Information technology in Hyderabad, Bangalore and pune (Who are under Corporate patrons) are involved in joint research with private industry. This enhances their understanding of market requirement and makes their research efficient.


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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby tejas » 29 Jan 2010 10:24

Take a look at this comprehensive list of technologies DRDO is inviting academia to assist with. It includes SC blades-- implying we don't yet have this technology. Also note no reference to GaAs tech. skips right to GaN-- a good sign.

http://www.drdo.gov.in/eripr/thrustareas.htm

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby A Sharma » 29 Jan 2010 20:14

DRDO Newsletter for Feb 20110

HEMRL, Pune has also developed Anti-thermal, Antilaser smoke grenade. Antithermal, Anti-laser smoke grenade is effective against second-and-third-generation laser finders, laser target designators, laser beam riding missiles, passive night vision devices, and thermal imagers operating in 8 -14 μm range. It is electrically fired from the launchers fitted on the tank.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 29 Jan 2010 21:41

tejas wrote:Take a look at this comprehensive list of technologies DRDO is inviting academia to assist with. It includes SC blades-- implying we don't yet have this technology. Also note no reference to GaAs tech. skips right to GaN-- a good sign.

http://www.drdo.gov.in/eripr/thrustareas.htm


Tejas its not like that. Improvements are always welcome. Its a broad based first rate power quest.

Sandy Gordon commented on such quest in his book India a Rising power.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby tejas » 30 Jan 2010 00:11

^^^^ I agree Ramana garu, the list is comprehensive and impressive. It is clear some people in the DRDO are clearly looking ahead. Hopefully, focussed and reasonably funded research involving academia and industry will be the norm for DRDO.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 30 Jan 2010 00:26

Did you read the Feb 10 news letter about the Insensitive munition?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby tejas » 30 Jan 2010 00:37

^^^ Not yet boss, am at work so I'm not too free to surf right now.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby tejas » 30 Jan 2010 02:52

The insensitive munition story was easy to miss as it was buried in a large image laden story on 81 mm smoke grenades. Why do they give out its exact chemical formula? That hopefully was already common knoledge.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 30 Jan 2010 02:54

Its a message to someone.


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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Bheem » 02 Feb 2010 09:36

Discussion: Funding of AMCA vs. PAKFA?

As we know that India is seriously interested in participating in PAKFA and Indian share of R&D of US$ 8-10 Billion is stated/reported to be US$ 4-5 billion. We have had so called 50% developments or JV for brahmos, Barak, Shakti engine etc with less than stellar reports of indigenous content. Is the term JV a new way to side step tender based acquisition and rob the Indian taxpayer?????

The issue I want to raise is that why AMCA allocated budget of only US$ 1 Billion a step child while Russian bird gets US$ 10 (or even 4-5 Billion US$) of Indian money. The issue is still not answered in public domain as to where this money will be spent, In Russia or India? Where will the labs will be built in russia or india? Whether it will be payment in dollars or we will supply manpower and equipment of US$ 4-5 Billion? if it is JV then no cash should change hands and India should give only man, material and lab assistance worth US$ 4-5 Billion! Now Whether this concept will be extended to so called T-xx super modern tank, which is being touted to kill Arjun, karan and any possibility of future indian tank?

What are we getting for US$ 4-5 Billion? Engine tech? Radar tech? Labs? Whaaat? If we are just getting right to produce or license assemble then why give Russia US$ 4-5 Billion? The reports that most of the sub assemblies of Su-30MKI and raw material will always be Russian does not inspore confidence in "indigenous" PAKFA!

Have we tried caling/tendering any European Company like Dassault or BAe or Saab and asked what help can they give us for developing stealth aircraft if we offer US$ 4-5-6 Billion???

In addition even if we fund PAKFA by raping Indian tax-fool-payer, If we can spent US$ 3 Billion on ATV & US$ 5 Billion on PAKFA then why not on US$ 20 Billion on AMCA. One of the problems with LCA was low rate of funding and why have we have allocated a similar amount for a more complex aircraft? Do we intend to build labs that delayed Kaveri and LCA? Will be built adequate margin on Kaveri for AMCA weight gain, tvc & snake inlets?

Some relevant quotes

The director of ADA, Dr PS Subramaniam, confirmed to Business Standard, "The joint committee is likely to be formed within two or three weeks. This committee will finalise what will go into the MCA, as well as the budget and development schedule." According to Dr Subramaniam, the programme will aim to develop the MCA and build five to six prototypes at a cost of Rs 5,000 crore. That is approximately the same amount that has gone into the LCA programme.


Another quote

The cost of developing the FGFA, which would be shared between both countries, will be US $8-10 billion (Rs 37,000-45,000 crores). Over and above that, say IAF and MoD sources, each FGFA will cost Rs 400-500 crores.



The issue is whether the funding for any "indigenous" product is adequate? Is the DRDO failing or our commitment towards adequate funding failing? Even LCA project (considering the depreciation of the rupee) has spent around US$ 2 Billon. Now are we trying to create MCA with half the funding? This still leaves the issue of present format of JV open. Real JV means contribution has to be in "kind" and not money. So are we paying the Russians or actually contributing to PAKFA while using US$ 5 Billion to build our infrastructure in long run?

I am not asking that we ditch PAKFA but we should/can do the following:-

1. Funding for AMCA should be atleast double of LCA i.e. around US$ 4 Billion

2. Fund LCA-Mark-2 "adequately"

2. Inform the public what are getting for US$ 5 Billion for PAKFA

3. Ask for JV/tender with some European house for AMCA and compare the costs/potential with PAKFA

4. Almost any visit to Def expo or conversation with Arms manufaturers will tell you that concept of JV, MoU is being used to side step tenders in lot of cases (not all cases, off course)

5. In fact, it easier to get high tech for (non transferable sensitive projects) now but arms manufacturers don't give routine tech because final product can be sold as a JV, MoU or outright non-tender sale.

6. Time is proving lot of doubts over Gorky were correct, PAKFA is still R&D project with no firm cost, so what is our alternative?

7. What about weapons to go with PAKFA and AMCA/FGFA?

The issue we can discuss is what were the problems with LCA/Arjun and how to avoid them with AMCA/FGFA


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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaladipc » 02 Feb 2010 23:38

Can someone who is good enough with Hyperspectral imaging and related technologies,provide me a open source to know about the Indian labs achievements in the tech?

My tiny little brain is thinking hard at over trillion FLOPS :P regarding the use of one such hyperspectral camera on a fighterjet for search and track.
I clearly understood that the HSI has varied applications to dig over, but thinking how will it fare against an IRST?
Should an optimized processor with high clocking with a wide scan HSI camera kill radar stealth?
I am not sure if I did have put amy points in a clear perspective,but the replies are much appreciated.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 03 Feb 2010 00:04

Archived thread on Hyper Spectral Imaging

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby aditp » 03 Feb 2010 00:10



Lets see what happens to the Arjun Tank trials. Let the Hon RM display the same alacrity in making IA order 1000 Arjuns as in the court marshalling of Avadhesh Prasad. Till then ya, ya yawn.
Last edited by Rahul M on 03 Feb 2010 01:10, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: edit. mind the language please. next such means a warning.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaladipc » 03 Feb 2010 00:41

ramana wrote:Archived thread on Hyper Spectral Imaging

Thanks for the link,but I was also looking at the possible use of an HSI camera for search and track installed on a fighter.


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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby aditp » 03 Feb 2010 12:11

@ RahulM - Slip of tongue. Sorry, I get a bit too emotional on indigenization issues

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby RayC » 03 Feb 2010 12:18

Rahul M wrote:
Leave biotechnology and nanotechnology to IISc and IITs for the moment.
if they are able do the job that DRDO does, namely create products that are unique to our requirements. unfortunately these places are not at all geared towards creating usable products.

as a matter of fact DRDO's bio-related labs are some of the most successful ones.


Can you give some examples?

It does excite me!

Have you ever been to such an organisation to realise their constrictions or the Army's?
Last edited by RayC on 03 Feb 2010 12:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby chetak » 03 Feb 2010 12:25

aditp wrote:@ RahulM - Slip of tongue. Sorry, I get a bit too emotional on indigenization issues


DRDO reality and logic are slightly different.



Would you also have the RM order the IAF to fit the Kaveri engines on the LCA?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby aditp » 03 Feb 2010 21:54

chetak wrote:
aditp wrote:@ RahulM - Slip of tongue. Sorry, I get a bit too emotional on indigenization issues


DRDO reality and logic are slightly different.



Would you also have the RM order the IAF to fit the Kaveri engines on the LCA?


No I wouldnt. The DRDO as of now, isnt itself convinced of the Kaveri, let alone anyone else. Parallel from the Arjun Tank cannot be drawn in this case.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaladipc » 04 Feb 2010 20:46

May be organizations like these need some gov support for R&D to prove their mettle ?
http://www.hitechroboticsystemz.com

Though some of their product line seems impressive,it still needs some more innovativeness IMHO.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 04 Feb 2010 22:07

jaladipc, thanks for the info. Is that company a manufacturer of robotic systems, or a dealer/supplier.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaladipc » 04 Feb 2010 23:21

Varoon Shekhar wrote:jaladipc, thanks for the info. Is that company a manufacturer of robotic systems, or a dealer/supplier.


they claim, they had an R&D unit.Make your own words. :D

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby manojmr » 05 Feb 2010 07:52

Guru's

any insight on this

ARMING UP
BSF develops ‘spy bomb’ vehicle
TIMES NEWS NETWORK

New Delhi: The Border Security Force (BSF) has developed a battery-operated ‘spy bomb’ vehicle — having a night vision camera and a cavity to carry an explosive — which can stealthily enter ‘enemy’ territory for surveillance and explode to eliminate militants.
Developed by the technical wing, the ‘spy bomb’ can be operated by remote control from a distance of 200 meters. “The apparatus has a video camera attached to it for receiving visuals and can function at night also,” said a BSF official. Costing Rs 20,000, it has been developed by the Assam-Meghalaya frontier of the force. The official said that orange-coloured four-wheeler’s signals can be received on a screen by the handler outside an enemy hideout and can be used by troops in operations.
Meanwhile, BSF has got the distinction of being the first paramilitary force to get a patent for its innovation — a jammer called Dhanush — by the government of India. The jammer is used to detect IEDs in terrorist and naxal-infested areas.
The Remote Controlled Improvised Explosive Device (RCIED) jammer was designed and fabricated by the R&D Cell of the Communication Directorate.


http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/ ... =HTML&GZ=T

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby SSridhar » 05 Feb 2010 08:50

DRDO is looking to expand academia-industry partnerships
Addressing faculty and students of the University of Madras, Guindy campus, Dr. Pillai said partnerships with academia had resulted in the development of several products with sophisticated military applications. According to Dr. Pillai, the technology for about 200 products under the Missile Technology Control Regime had been indigenously developed through three-way partnerships among the DRDO, academia and industry.

He cited as examples the “phase shifter” technology used in real war scenarios developed with IIT-Delhi and the algorithm for a non-parabolic path developed for the surface-to-surface missile Prithvi.

He urged the University of Madras to do a Stanford by building core competencies in niche areas of research. Some of the areas for which the DRDO was seeking collaboration with academia were robotics, smart materials and nano-sciences.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby David Saenz » 05 Feb 2010 11:45

L&T, EADS revive JV plans; to tweak equity structure to clear FDI hurdle
L&T will now hold a 74% stake in the venture, which aims to tap the growing opportunities in India’s defence sector as well as those of other countries, leaving the remaining 26% stake to EADS, said a person close to the matter. The joint venture intends to make electronic warfare systems, radar instruments and avionics.
-----
The proposed joint venture, which is critical to L&T’s ambitious plans for the defence sector, is expected to earn Rs 2,500 crore in revenues over the next five years. L&T, which has been a major supplier of critical systems to India’s defence forces for 20 years, currently earns revenues of around Rs 400 crore from this business, its chairman AM Naik had said at the time of announcing the tie-up.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby SaiK » 06 Feb 2010 00:29

He cited as examples the “phase shifter” technology used in real war scenarios developed with IIT-Delhi and the algorithm for a non-parabolic path developed for the surface-to-surface missile Prithvi.

DRDO was seeking collaboration with academia were robotics, smart materials and nano-sciences.

He advised youth to shed the defeatist mindset of going abroad to pursue careers or higher research. He pointed out that almost 38 per cent of scientists at NASA were from India.

He assured researchers that funds were not a constraint.

http://www.hindu.com/2010/02/05/stories ... 110500.htm

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby a_kumar » 06 Feb 2010 05:35


The spokesperson for EADS Defence & Security, the investment vehicle of the EADS group for the project, told ET: “India is a key market for us and our target is to establish long-lasting partnerships in India. Therefore, we continue our discussions with L&T.”


Nice!!! As predicted

Some might say we won't get transfer of Technology with current model. But, how many critical ToT were executed successfully in time, even though India paid good?

GoI's aim of these ventures should be to have India's foot in the West's door, not the other way around. India will have to learn the ropes using these ventures, no easy way!!

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby aditp » 06 Feb 2010 10:52

^^^ Its definately a good start. Even if no substantial ToT takes place, a functional exposure to high tech systems would be enough catalyst for L&T to enhance its capabilities by leaps and bounds over a period of time..


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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Craig Alpert » 09 Feb 2010 01:37

Mahindra and BAE Systems’ $22m JV to target land systems, artillery programs alone worth US$8 billion
08 Feb 2010 8ak/Mahindra/BAE PR: Buoyed by an almost certain win of the US$647m M777 ultra light howitzer deal, BAE systems and Mahindra today announced their proposed JV (to be set up in the near future) which has the ambition to become an artillery centre of excellence in India that covers not just manufacturing but development, testing and support. As per a recent industry report, India proposes to spend over US$8 billion on purchasing about 2,814 artillery guns of various types. Besides the manufacture, the spares and service of these guns will in itself be a huge market.

Defence Land Systems India will be headquartered in New Delhi with manufacturing at a purpose built facility South of Faridabad, just outside of Delhi. Initially there will be about 100 employees and existing projects include the Axe high mobility vehicle as well as up-armored and bulletproof Scorpios, Boleros, Rakshak, Rapid Intervention Vehicles and the Marksman light armored vehicle. A key project is the development of a mine protected vehicle specifically designed to meet the needs of the Indian armed and paramilitary forces.

Approved by the Foreign Investment Promotion Board of the Government of India (GoI), the parent companies' initial investment will be US$21.25 million over a three year period. The company’s equity split will be 74% Mahindra and 26% BAE Systems, in accordance with the current defence sector Foreign Direct Investment regulations of the GoI.

Mr. Deepak Chhibba and Mr. Arne Berglund will be Defence Land Systems India’s CEO and Deputy CEO respectively. Deepak Chhibba was earlier EVP International Operations Mahindra & Mahindra and has over 32 years industrial experience. The newly appointed Deputy CEO, Arne Berglund, was previously a director at BAE Systems, Global Combat Systems, in the UK. Arne and has also worked in Singapore, Canada, Sweden and the United States with various BAE Systems and other joint venture companies.

In unrelated news, BAE systems has agreed to pay over $400m to settle bribery allegations - covered in Wall Street Journal.


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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby SSridhar » 11 Feb 2010 18:48

Industry soars with Agni-III
Excerpts
The successful completion of test flights of Agni-III, India's long range, nuclear-capable missile, also marks a significant contribution of Indian industry in establishing domestic capabilities.

More than 150 industries of different sizes, including 60-70 large private and public sector companies, were instrumental in fabricating small components to sub-assemblies to integrating the entire missile


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