Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Virendra
BRFite
Posts: 1210
Joined: 24 Aug 2011 23:20

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Virendra » 19 Nov 2018 20:17

I am in London and have reader access to British Library. In case a member is looking for something specific which isn't available elsewhere (except British Library), let me know and I will try to help.
They don't issue stuff to take away. You can get it reserved and read within library. Copy service is available but perhaps (not sure) costly.
They can also fetch stuff on loan from other local libraries if we request.

Regards,
Virendra

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54822
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby ramana » 20 Nov 2018 03:03

Virendra If you find anything on why Timur retreated from the Himalayan foothills and did not replace Feroz Shah Tughlaq would be grateful.

Virendra
BRFite
Posts: 1210
Joined: 24 Aug 2011 23:20

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Virendra » 20 Nov 2018 15:41

Namaste Ramana
I can search for books on Timur and look them up. But beside that, do you have any specific piece of text / book that you want accessed for this?
I don't know where else to start or what else to search for :P

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9869
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Yagnasri » 20 Nov 2018 16:14

Any records on 27 year war between Maratas and Mughals is one. There is one book by Balkishan on Shivaji Maharaj which was not readily available is another. This book said to have been reprinted recently but I could not get it. This writer wrote the story of Shivaji Maharaj from Indic eyes.

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7415
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby disha » 21 Nov 2018 01:51

Virendra wrote:I am in London and have reader access to British Library. In case a member is looking for something specific which isn't available elsewhere (except British Library), let me know and I will try to help.
They don't issue stuff to take away. You can get it reserved and read within library. Copy service is available but perhaps (not sure) costly.
They can also fetch stuff on loan from other local libraries if we request.

Regards,
Virendra


Do you have access to Harappa/Mohenjadaro seals or books describing those seals?

Virendra
BRFite
Posts: 1210
Joined: 24 Aug 2011 23:20

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Virendra » 21 Nov 2018 16:20

Easy guys .. my access is what anybody with a Id and address proof in UK can get for free. :(
I go to the library once a week only, for my studies.
But I will try to address these queries one by one.

Can you please help me by looking up the library's catalogues here. Let me know what you want from it. I can access it, read it there and revert :-
General/Main Catalogue - http://explore.bl.uk/primo_library/libw ... &vid=BLVU1
Catalogue of Archives and old Manuscripts - http://searcharchives.bl.uk/primo_libra ... Login=true

ParGha
BRFite
Posts: 944
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 06:01

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby ParGha » 22 Nov 2018 20:23

Not quite ancient or medieval history, but the Brits recently released some home videos of a senior ICS diplomat and his family being escorted through Iran by the secretive Indian Long Range Squadron (ILRS). Its war history states that the ILRS patrolled the Iran-USSR border, but this footage is really in Iran-Baluchistan border area and their security is also handed off to a Red Army patrol. I am curious if there are better records of where ILRS were really deployed, and how far south the Red Army patrolled?

ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5246
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby ShauryaT » 29 Oct 2019 18:07

A basic question, hope some old timers or the Author can help. Where has Airavat's blog moved to?

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54822
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby ramana » 30 Oct 2019 01:42

csaurabh wrote:
ramana wrote:Grant Duff.
It's there in Archive.org


Downloading now.. Isn't there a good book by an Indian author? /disappoint


There is another good book on Marathas.

The Founding of Maratha Freedom

by S.R. Sharma

Look at archive.org

Vikas
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6828
Joined: 03 Dec 2005 02:40
Location: Where DST doesn't bother me
Contact:

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Vikas » 30 Oct 2019 11:53

https://www.myindiamyglory.com/2018/10/02/lalitaditya-muktapida-kashmir-king-who-defeated-arabs-and-subjugated-turks/

Are there blogs or articles related to Emperor Lalitaditya of Kashmir which are more authentic. As per articles, His empire extended from Central Asia to Orrisa and Gujarat. He even had forces stationed in South India.
There is hardly any authentic material available on him nor he is part of any CBSE/NCERT syllabus.

Virendra
BRFite
Posts: 1210
Joined: 24 Aug 2011 23:20

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Virendra » 30 Oct 2019 11:55

ShauryaT wrote:A basic question, hope some old timers or the Author can help. Where has Airavat's blog moved to?

It isn't available anymore. Many people are looking for him :)
Some web archives might have the vlog posts.
But better to read here - https://www.rajputcommunity.in/tags/airavat-singh
I don't know if this site has all his blog posts. But I could find many of them.

Regards,
Virendra

Virendra
BRFite
Posts: 1210
Joined: 24 Aug 2011 23:20

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Virendra » 30 Oct 2019 11:57

Vikas wrote:https://www.myindiamyglory.com/2018/10/02/lalitaditya-muktapida-kashmir-king-who-defeated-arabs-and-subjugated-turks/

Are there blogs or articles related to Emperor Lalitaditya of Kashmir which are more authentic. As per articles, His empire extended from Central Asia to Orrisa and Gujarat. He even had forces stationed in South India.
There is hardly any authentic material available on him nor he is part of any CBSE/NCERT syllabus.

Please search archives of this forum/thread. Lalitaditya was discussed many times. Rajatarangini is the only authentic source I remember.

ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5246
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby ShauryaT » 31 Oct 2019 03:54

Virendra wrote:
ShauryaT wrote:A basic question, hope some old timers or the Author can help. Where has Airavat's blog moved to?

It isn't available anymore. Many people are looking for him :)
Some web archives might have the vlog posts.
But better to read here - https://www.rajputcommunity.in/tags/airavat-singh
I don't know if this site has all his blog posts. But I could find many of them.

Regards,
Virendra
Thanks Virendra :D Be in touch @ShauryaTweets

Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1553
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 19:14

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Gyan » 05 Aug 2020 11:33

Re Yash G

Shivaji lost many of his forts & was imprisoned by Aurangzeb. He escaped & inspite of being pretty weak military wise, He soon crowned himself Chattarparti right in the teeth of all Muslim Rulers around him. Why?

YashG
BRFite
Posts: 193
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby YashG » 05 Aug 2020 13:53

Gyanji - Its a complex picture. But I have no concrete answers to this - perhaps if you're suggesting something pl elaborate.
But all said and done - Shivaji was great thinker/commander and like one he set into place the morale and basics of Maratha empire/warfare machinery.

The connon tech/tactics has little role to play during Shivaji's reign - during this time, the Marathas were still building their military prowess while Mughal empire was waning. Sometime in next decades, Marathas ascendant power took better of waning Mughal power.

In the hindsight if Maraths cud have taken over the trade on Indian coasts they cud have built a world beating empire - bt like in Assaye - Marathas were no match for British warfare matrix. ( some people say, if not for British, we would be still under Islamic rule - I differ, we wud have been under Maratha rule & would have become nation state much earlier)

Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1553
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 19:14

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Gyan » 05 Aug 2020 15:32

Yash G, thats why I say, your military thinking must consider ideology as part of armoury. Shivaji killing of Afzal Khan was not a fight between 2 individuals in which Shivaji came good. Shivaji put many years of preparation in that battle.

My "guess" is that Rajputs persuaded Shivaji during his captivity to escape, reach South & Crown himself King, Chattarpati. Mughals were at their Peak during Shivaji & Sambhaji time. But they collapsed within 12 years of Aurangzeb death.

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8100
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby nachiket » 06 Aug 2020 01:36

Gyan and YashG, there was a 10 page thread about Maratha History some years back on BRF. You guys might be interested. Link: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5061

Unfortunately Atri ji who provided most of the information in that thread does not post here anymore.

YashG
BRFite
Posts: 193
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby YashG » 06 Aug 2020 03:46

Gyan wrote:Yash G, thats why I say, your military thinking must consider ideology as part of armoury. Shivaji killing of Afzal Khan was not a fight between 2 individuals in which Shivaji came good. Shivaji put many years of preparation in that battle.

My "guess" is that Rajputs persuaded Shivaji during his captivity to escape, reach South & Crown himself King, Chattarpati. Mughals were at their Peak during Shivaji & Sambhaji time. But they collapsed within 12 years of Aurangzeb death.


Very well could be - he learnt from Rajputs and beyond too.

Also without battlefield advantages that the initial waves of Islamic militaries inherited from the Europe-Central Asia axis - the Islamic armies were just vulnerable. So it was a matter of time before these advantages dissipated and some Hindu ruler who had a deeper legitimacy within Hindu ranks emerged. In that sense I'm also 'guessing' with wider support of the wealthy/powerful Hindu classes, Shivaji had more at his disposal. But this factor has to be limited significance, since Shivaji also had and leveraged Muslims conscripts.

Virendra
BRFite
Posts: 1210
Joined: 24 Aug 2011 23:20

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Virendra » 06 Aug 2020 07:39

A thread I wrote on the Agra interplay of Shivaji, Rajputs and Mughals; using lesser known primary sources.
https://twitter.com/virendrarathore/sta ... 2210002945

Its blog version.
https://agrippedsoul.wordpress.com/2020 ... interplay/

Regards,
Virendra

Virendra
BRFite
Posts: 1210
Joined: 24 Aug 2011 23:20

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Virendra » 06 Aug 2020 07:46

Also have a book coming up, on Prithviraj Chauhan.
Image

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54822
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby ramana » 06 Aug 2020 07:57

Wish you all the best and looking forward to reading it.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54822
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby ramana » 06 Aug 2020 07:59

You are a Rathore!

Pranam to your family.

darshhan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2727
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 11:52

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby darshhan » 06 Aug 2020 11:41

Virendra wrote:Also have a book coming up, on Prithviraj Chauhan.
Image


All the best. I am waiting.

darshhan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2727
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 11:52

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby darshhan » 06 Aug 2020 11:42

Virendra wrote:A thread I wrote on the Agra interplay of Shivaji, Rajputs and Mughals; using lesser known primary sources.
https://twitter.com/virendrarathore/sta ... 2210002945

Its blog version.
https://agrippedsoul.wordpress.com/2020 ... interplay/

Regards,
Virendra


Very detailed research.

Virendra
BRFite
Posts: 1210
Joined: 24 Aug 2011 23:20

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Virendra » 06 Aug 2020 14:07

Thanks darshhan and ramana

ParGha
BRFite
Posts: 944
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 06:01

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby ParGha » 06 Aug 2020 19:02

YashG, the Doji Bara famine killed 11 Million in North Karnataka / South Maharashtra; the prime recruiting grounds for historic Maratha, Rashtrakuta, Chalukya armies, and even today the grounds for Maratha Light Infantry. It is a little hard to build a nation-state when 25% of your support base is dead (the population of this region was estimated at 40 million in 1790s), and other 75% are probably weakened by starvation and malnutrition. El Nino destroyed the Marathas. The British just delivered the coup de grace.

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8100
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby nachiket » 07 Aug 2020 02:28

ParGha wrote:YashG, the Doji Bara famine killed 11 Million in North Karnataka / South Maharashtra; the prime recruiting grounds for historic Maratha, Rashtrakuta, Chalukya armies, and even today the grounds for Maratha Light Infantry. It is a little hard to build a nation-state when 25% of your support base is dead (the population of this region was estimated at 40 million in 1790s), and other 75% are probably weakened by starvation and malnutrition. El Nino destroyed the Marathas. The British just delivered the coup de grace.

It wasn't that simple. The problem with later Maratha armies was a lack of capable leadership. The loss of Peshwa Madhavrao at an early age was a huge setback for the Marathas. He had shown glimpses of being a capable leader at a young age. He could have walked in the footsteps of Bajirao-I if he had lived long enough and been much more of a challenge to the English. The main issue was that Maratha armies (and other Indic ones) did not adapt to the changing nature of warfare in India because of the rise of the European powers. The European armies were already experienced in the new warfare having fought numerous wars amongst each other and developed tactics learnt the hard way along with the technological base and manufacturing capacity needed for the type of armies that they fielded. Marathas on the other hand were dependent on the French and others for muskets and artillery and even in some cases officers for those forces when they fielded them (the Battle of Koregaon being a prime example). And this was an issue even before their battles with the English. Even during Panipat-III they were almost completely dependent on Ibrahim Khan Gardi and his force of artillery and musketeers for their gunpowder units. All of the major Maratha commanders were still cavalry commanders while it was increasingly becoming obvious that a European style Line infantry heavy force armed with muskets and supported by a lot of modern artillery worked far better on the battlefield with the cavalry being used as a supporting force or shock troops. A far sighted leader would have worked to fix this situation. Unfortunately the Marathas lost the only leader who might have done it.

Adrija
BRFite
Posts: 317
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 19:42

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Adrija » 07 Aug 2020 12:14

Yes, fully agree... the loss of Madhavrao at such a young age was just tragic for India...

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Aditya_V » 07 Aug 2020 12:23

The question is why were they dependent on a single leader and why was the defeat not avenged , shows there was lack of institutional planning which continues to this day.

Adrija
BRFite
Posts: 317
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 19:42

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Adrija » 07 Aug 2020 12:47

Aditya_V garu,

Not sure which defeat being avenged which you are referring to?

Re reliance on a single leader, agree........... but even till today a single person does make difference..stability at the top is almost a sine qua non for an organization/ country/ empire enduring...... so many examples from history and now corporates.... the Mughals because of Akbar's tenure, the Qing empire due to the Qianlong emperor (and his grandson I think who between them ruled for a collective 120 years)... deng of course.

Even in the modern age - where institutions and communications infrastructure is far far more instantaneous and hence likely resilient- one can almost directly correlate the success of a corporation to stability at the top (HON w Cote, P&G etc etc).. so individuals DO matter

The downside is also the same- Marcos dragged the Philippines down from being amongst the most prosperous countries in Asia to being amongst the poorest... the long tenure of CEOs at GE at the end actually accelerated their downfall

So luck of the draw I think....... there is a tide in the affairs of men and all that........which is why perhaps NaMo is harbinger of a new India..

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Aditya_V » 07 Aug 2020 12:58

Avenged, is after 3rd battle of Panipat, why did not rest of Indians again form an Army and go after Ahmad Shah Abdali in some time ? There was institutional failure and kind of explains our China policy today. Had we attacked China in 63 with proper build up we would not be facing the same situation.

We always seek peace with those who are not interested in peace like Pakistan.

Adrija
BRFite
Posts: 317
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 19:42

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Adrija » 07 Aug 2020 13:08

Panipat III was a bloody and costly and ultimately pyrrhic victory for Abdali... the Marathas took ample revenge and reclaimed their lands under MadhavaRao I ... by 1770s they had taken back control of pretty much all of North India... please do google Maratha Resurrection

The Durrani empire pretty much collapsed within 10 years of Panipat

YashG
BRFite
Posts: 193
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby YashG » 07 Aug 2020 13:54

I'd agree with @nachiket about Marathas not adapting to new warfare tactics.
If you'll go into the fineprint of the Battle of Assaye - you'd realise there was very little differentiating us from the British. We could have almost won that war. The Marathas fought so well - even to the point that when the cannon line was run over by british cavalry - the cannoners feigned death and later got up and fired the britisg cavalry from behind. And yet we didnt win the battle.

But for a moment if I imagine, we would have won this war - what next?
The trend I saw in the battle of Assaye was the same I saw in the battle of Plassey and then that of Buxar. In each of these battle, the superior artillery ( even less in numbers than the Indians) and warfare tactics always won the day.

At the end the mechanics is simple - Geography & Knowledge transfer. In his Book Guns, Germs & Steel, Jared Diamond drives home a simple point - some societies develop better tech/tactics due to east-west axis of transfer of knowledge. Indian was never on this knowledge transfer axis that stretch from British at one end and Japan at another. This lesson is most difficult for us to accept but whatever we lacked wasnt our fault - it was just cruel geography.

On the brighter side - this axis is no more relevant due to digital tech now. So you will see now Indian tech progressing way faster since we are quite on that digital axis now ( our closeness to US, Europe). Actually China is now no longer on that axis. It will show in results, in 10-15 years!

Adrija
BRFite
Posts: 317
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 19:42

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Adrija » 07 Aug 2020 15:14

YashG ji, may I please beg to differ- firstly Diamond simply ignored India in his analysis... we meet all his conditions of geography and societal progress and yet remain an underdeveloped economy- my read is that he does not want to acknowledge the fact that India was in turmoil and under slavery for 1000 years... even then India was THe richest country till 1700 (yes, India, not China)

We are and always were on the east west axis

IMVVHO of course.. no offence meant

Rsatchi
BRFite
Posts: 892
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Rsatchi » 07 Aug 2020 16:03

Aditya_V wrote:The question is why were they dependent on a single leader and why was the defeat not avenged , shows there was lack of institutional planning which continues to this day.

Adityaji
Part of that problem was the Patrilineal inheritance of the title of 'Peshwa'!!

YashG
BRFite
Posts: 193
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby YashG » 07 Aug 2020 16:09

@Adrija yes ur correct that Diamond's book very much misses India. To my own surprise and many others - thats quite a miss.

When u say we meet his conditions of geography/societal progress (I'm assuming access to nutritious seeds, availability of useful/large mammals) - Again you're correct. We do. Infact bdue to that we were a flourishing, prosperous society sometime till later part of the 1st millennium - like u said.

But what we did not have was sufficient knowledge to develop our warfare tech - simply because if you'll see the eurasian landmass, british isles to Chinese coast. All along that land mass - the war, threat perception and therefore exchange of knowledge (Also due to silk route) was pervasive. Crusades, mongolian hordes and a lot more. Infact we in India didnt bear the brunt of mongolian hordes (in the same way, extent eurasia did). When Babur came calling from Ferghana valley, his province was nothing but a post in middle of Silk Route and hence access to knowledge.

My point here is our knowledge transfer on warfare tactics was weak. We stayed weak militarily and thence always vulnerable from riders from north who came with ever new cavalry tactics.

If you for a moment go by this narrative, it will be easy to see in a moment that why today the same empires who were strong on silk route are like primitive militia. While India today is easily more powerful than all of the central asia and middle eastern armies combined. What changed?

Perhaps geography today no longer undermines the destiny of societies like it did. That also means, history wont repeat itself. 21st century communication tech has finally put an end to the '1000 years' turmoil and slavery.

Rsatchi
BRFite
Posts: 892
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Rsatchi » 07 Aug 2020 16:20

^^^
Yashji
For a long time the 'dharmic way' of fighting or 'Dharma Yudh' had been drilled in the folks pschye
And relying on individual valour than collective has been our down fall.
Even though Battle of Panipat I was green on green action: Babur's small 'thops' or canons was enough to frighten the elephants who turned around and crushed their own
We were slow in adapting to modern warfare and still relied on cavalry and individual valour
The invaders who had canons and muskets found it too easy even though they has smaller forces!!

Adrija
BRFite
Posts: 317
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 19:42

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby Adrija » 07 Aug 2020 16:35

But what we did not have was sufficient knowledge to develop our warfare tech - simply because if you'll see the eurasian landmass, british isles to Chinese coast. All along that land mass - the war, threat perception and therefore exchange of knowledge (Also due to silk route) was pervasive. Crusades, mongolian hordes and a lot more. Infact we in India didnt bear the brunt of mongolian hordes (in the same way, extent eurasia did). When Babur came calling from Ferghana valley, his province was nothing but a post in middle of Silk Route and hence access to knowledge.


YashG ji, yes- India as a sub-continent was sheltered quite a bit due to its geographic features and hence peace largely prevailed for a long time till the Moslem invaders (motivated by lust and loot) started coming in on a regular basis.

So we certainly did miss out on technological and organizational advancements in especially the field of warfare... is that a sign of a "societal flaw"? Perhaps... as a civilization India has always been about mastery over self and harmony with nature; as opposed to the western world where the outlook is diametrically opposite (indulgence of self and mastery over nature). It has served them well in making material progress especially after the Black Death which wiped out all incumbent orthodoxy.......

But win some, lose some....our mindset and worldview arose due to the sheltered nature which our geography afforded us- unparalleled in the ancient world- geographically isolated but very fertile land, warm temperatures etc- which allowed for settled agriculture and urban society which afforded material surplus for leisure and thought to develop. So where we advanced (metaphysical thought and practices) was at the cost of material advancement which then proved a heavy drawback when invaders with a fundamentally different worldview came to our land..

Sorry for the rambling but wanted to share what I think are root causes of why we are what we are

YashG
BRFite
Posts: 193
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby YashG » 07 Aug 2020 17:26

Adrija wrote:But win some, lose some....our mindset and worldview arose due to the sheltered nature which our geography afforded us- unparalleled in the ancient world- geographically isolated but very fertile land, warm temperatures etc- which allowed for settled agriculture and urban society which afforded material surplus for leisure and thought to develop. So where we advanced (metaphysical thought and practices) was at the cost of material advancement which then proved a heavy drawback when invaders with a fundamentally different worldview came to our land..


yes I agree. 101%.

Perhaps maybe its our spirituality that developed and allowed to conjure up zero. Zero was a leap in human thought, of which I think there is no other parallel. Only a well developed spiritual society could have invented it.

YashG
BRFite
Posts: 193
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Postby YashG » 07 Aug 2020 17:30

Rsatchi wrote:^^^
Yashji
For a long time the 'dharmic way' of fighting or 'Dharma Yudh' had been drilled in the folks pschye
And relying on individual valour than collective has been our down fall.
Even though Battle of Panipat I was green on green action: Babur's small 'thops' or canons was enough to frighten the elephants who turned around and crushed their own
We were slow in adapting to modern warfare and still relied on cavalry and individual valour
The invaders who had canons and muskets found it too easy even though they has smaller forces!!


Absolutely.
In battle of plassey - 12 odd cast iron cannons went against 30 or more cannons of the Bengal state. And you knw what happened next.
But our 'thops' are also good are good as well. This piece of history is behind us. That 1000 year humiliation is also never going to happen again.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kritavarman, nandakumar and 58 guests