Small Arms Thread

Gaur
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2009
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Gaur » 25 Jun 2011 20:21

^^
Lt Gen Shankar Ghosh, GOC in C of Western Command.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7022
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby JE Menon » 25 Jun 2011 20:32

Tx Boss.

joygoswami
BRFite
Posts: 521
Joined: 11 May 2010 19:08
Location: Destination Moon For 5yrs with Zaid Hamid

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby joygoswami » 30 Jun 2011 15:09

Saw this amazing video of a low recoil Machine Gun, made in Singapore. Please see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMrbaYoz ... ertainment

Sagar G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2594
Joined: 22 Dec 2009 19:31
Location: Ghar

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Sagar G » 09 Aug 2011 15:20

INSAS rifles troubled Indian Army men: Raju

The Indian soldier’s primary weapon INSAS rifle gave them major trouble for long until the problems were rectified a few years ago.The problem was an oil spray right into their eyes from the rifle immediately after it was fired.

This was stated by Minister of State for Defence M.M. Pallam Raju in the Lok Sabha Monday in a written reply to questions from members.

“Prior to 2003, Indian Army had reported a problem of oil spray in the eyes of the firer,” Raju said.

Among the defects noticed in the rifle were improper heat treatment and material, firing of segregated ammunition lot and improper drill by the user.

In each of these defects, corrective action has been taken, Raju said.

“Based on the feedback, corrective action was taken and the design was modified. Since then, no adverse feedback has been received,” he said.


“Besides, the remedial and improvement measures suggested by the defect investigation team are intimated to the manufacturer and the user.”

Raju also noted that the use of INSAS had caused some minor accidents during firing practice.

Since 2009 to July this year, there were 178 accidents or defects. There were 68 such incidents in 2009 and 69 in 2010. This year, till July, there were 41 such reports.

In these years, army personnel suffered minor injuries in these incidents. 2009 saw six men injured. In 2010, there were just two injuries. Till July this year, only one incidents has been reported, Raju added.

He said the army has a defect report system in place and the authorities concerned immediately conduct an investigation with other relevant agencies to look into the causes of the accident.

A Sharma
BRFite
Posts: 1141
Joined: 20 May 2003 11:31

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby A Sharma » 28 Aug 2011 06:10


ticky
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 89
Joined: 06 Apr 2008 13:13

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ticky » 29 Aug 2011 12:55

Just saw a CRPF personnel armed with Micro Tavor today in Imphal. Couldn't get a chance to snap a pic unfortunately

Vipul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3727
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 03:30

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Vipul » 16 Sep 2011 23:54

India takes another shot at desi AK-47.

Mikhail Kalashnikov, the inventor of the AK-47 rifle, may not get a chance to complain now, even though an India ordnance factory (OF) has developed an AK-inspired gun for its forces. The OF now hopes its latest development will not infringe patent norms.

Early in 2000, an Indian ordnance factory had developed a replica of the AK-47, and put it on display at a defence expo in New Delhi. The weapon caught the eye of none other than the original designer, Kalashnikov himself. He objected and threatened to file a copyright violation case against the government weapon maker, forcing plans for an Indian AK-47 to be put on hold.

Now, this popular weapon may soon have its Indian cousin. Not exactly the AK-47 of the Russian make, it is claimed to be as effective. The weapon developed by Tiruchirapalli Ordnance Factory in Tamil Nadu, is undergoing final rounds of evaluation by an internal team. After this, it is planned to be offered to the paramilitary forces for use in anti-Maoist operations, said a source.

Sources also said that the paramilitary would be the preferred client initially, as it is a long-drawn affair to get approvals from army for a new weapon.

This time, the technology has been tweaked to ensure no question of copyright violation arises. The Indian gun is based on a system of 'tilting breech block' as against the 'rotating breech block' in the AK-47. In layman's terms, the mechanism which performs one of the key functions during the firing action, will undergo a tilting movement as against rotation in the original AK-47.

The travel length for the bullet to come out of the barrel has also been reduced, which again makes it distinct from the AK which Kalashnikov designed.

Not formally christened so far, the weapon is currently called the Tiruchirapalli Assault Rifle (TAR). A team of experts from other factories has been formed to assess the weapon, after which it would be offered to users. It is hoped that paramilitary forces may adopt it faster, since it would reduce their dependence on imports.

The TAR has an effective range of 400 meters and uses 7.62x36 mm bullets. It also has mechanism of firing a single shot at a time as well as multiple shots. This makes it almost like the AK-47, on the performance front. Rather, the TAR has the capacity to fire 800 bullets in an hour while the AK-47 can fire 700, sources said.

The AK-47s are currently imported in India from Russia as well as other East European countries which have manufacturing licence, China also makes its own version of the gun. The troops carrying the 5.56 INSAS, made by the ordnance factories, are not too happy with it. There have been complaints that the gun is made to injure rather than kill, making it ineffective in counter insurgency operations. Hence, AKs are preferred over the INSAS, which also does not have an automatic firing option.

After Jammu and Kashmir, troops in Maoist infested areas too have voiced their dissatisfaction with the INSAS.

However, there are apprehensions over how long it will be before the weapon is accepted by the army or other forces. A similar project of developing the 9mm carbine by the factory has faced inordinate delays.

Defence analyst major General GD Bakshi (retd) said it would be indeed welcome if an indigenous assault rifles is available, since the INSAS has proven to be a failure in counterinsurgency operations. However, the induction should be fast, if it really suits the requirement of forces, he said.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby shiv » 17 Sep 2011 05:12

Vipul wrote: Rather, the TAR has the capacity to fire 800 bullets in an hour while the AK-47 can fire 700, sources said.



Wow! That's fast! :roll: Would put an artillery piece to shame on rate of fire. DDM?

D Roy
BRFite
Posts: 1176
Joined: 08 Oct 2009 17:28

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby D Roy » 17 Sep 2011 08:19

obviously. The whole article is full of DDM errors and/ or typos.

its 800 rounds per minute.

its 7.62 X 39 mm ( not 36).

It refers to the standard 5.56 vs 7.62 debate ( i.e wounding versus stopping power) but portrayed in a way as if the "INSAS has some kind of a problem". And with no apparent reference to the same.

The Trichy AR is essentially a mirroring of a trend worldwide to bring back the 7.62 mm whether 7.62 X 51 for NATO or 7.62 X 39 for former WARPAC, as a result of the "lessons learned in Afghanistan and Iraq".

ArmenT
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 4239
Joined: 10 Sep 2007 05:57
Location: Loud, Proud, Ugly American

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ArmenT » 17 Sep 2011 10:28

We discussed the Trichy Assault Rifle almost 6 months ago.
See Palash Kol's post here, making the initial announcement: http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?p=1049831#p1049831
The next few posts after that add to the discussion :). Good to see new details coming out.

vivekmehta
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 77
Joined: 09 Jul 2009 18:19
Contact:

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby vivekmehta » 17 Sep 2011 21:49

koti wrote:The first time I have seen black furniture Insas Rifles in Indian service.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHQtJYdSAbQ



hum.. i have seen it with UP police-PAC just posted outside TAJ.then in lucknow ,with a some special unit in Hyderabad recently.

and today with delhi police . and also i first time Saw the RED PCR Van. which is suppose to handle only Terror and serious crimes.

Guys in PCR looked to be well equipped and more serious then other local PCR guys.

koti
BRFite
Posts: 1119
Joined: 09 Jul 2009 22:06
Location: Hyderabad, India

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby koti » 28 Sep 2011 22:12

Black Insas and Insas Excalibur Hands on.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ppBgkXprwU

ArmenT
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 4239
Joined: 10 Sep 2007 05:57
Location: Loud, Proud, Ugly American

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ArmenT » 29 Sep 2011 01:11

^^^^
Anyone know what show this was at? It has to be somewhere in Bengal as the guy in the blue hat that is explaining things is speaking Bengali.

negi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13098
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Ban se dar nahin lagta , chootiyon se lagta hai .

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby negi » 29 Sep 2011 09:02

OFB Ishapore ?

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7022
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby JE Menon » 03 Oct 2011 16:13

OK, I was watching this programme last night on NDTV, about our beefing up of joint forces in Andaman & Nicobar, and there was some small clips of Marcos and infantry training. Saw something totally jugaad which gladdened my heart. To catch the ejecting shells from rifles, it looked to me like the guys had (apparently) cut out a space on the side of a plastic mineral water bottle and somehow attached it to the rifle side where the shells eject. The empty shells then went into the bottle, and then could be emptied out easily. I cannot imagine a lighter, more efficient (but low-tech) method of collecting shells, instead of having a guy stand next to you with his helmet ... Very creative improvisation. And there is not likely to be any shortage of mineral water bottles anytime soon :D

OK, it looked like a mineral water bottle to me. May have been some other funda item, no idea.

ParGha
BRFite
Posts: 880
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 06:01

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ParGha » 03 Oct 2011 18:49

There is a specific shell-catcher (sort of semi-cylindrical closed mesh) for the INSAS that you can attach to the carrying handle (an otherwise useless feature)... it is supposed to be used when moving on the range in exercises. Jugaad is used when it is not available.

koti
BRFite
Posts: 1119
Joined: 09 Jul 2009 22:06
Location: Hyderabad, India

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby koti » 19 Oct 2011 22:27

Image http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/525/a25ok.jpg/
Look at the butt of the rifle. It seems to house a small compartment for the wrenches and other cleaning stuff. Is this present in standard issue Insas or is this a new feature if at all.

koti
BRFite
Posts: 1119
Joined: 09 Jul 2009 22:06
Location: Hyderabad, India

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby koti » 04 Nov 2011 23:55

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/11/th ... andos.html
The above post puts up the level of confidence Navy has in Insas.

Insas has moved a long way from a greasy, leaky gun to one that is capable to be used by amphibious troops.

wig
BRFite
Posts: 1687
Joined: 09 Feb 2009 16:58

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby wig » 16 Nov 2011 10:43

AK-47 rifles to get holographic sights - i hope that the same can be fitted to insas series arms
The Army wants to enhance the “kill probability” of troops engaged in combat operations and in a step towards this direction AK-47 series of assault rifles issued to infantry units deployed in counter-insurgency grid are being equipped with holographic sights to make aiming and shooting quicker and more accurate.

Holographic sight is a battery-operated gadget fixed atop the rifle like a miniature telescope. It has a single lens at the centre of which is a coloured laser-induced microdot that marks the exact point at which the bullet would hit. The Army is initially planning to acquire about 500 such sights.

These sights allow soldiers to shoot quickly with both eyes open, doing away with the need to shut one eye for lining up the fore and rear “iron” sights to take aim. “Consequently, they provide large peripheral vision and desired accuracy even when firing from wide angles and awkward positions,” an officer said. This enables instant target acquisition in and enhances accuracy of fire where effective and judicious use of available ammunition is essential,” he added.

Holographic sights are already in use with Indian Special Forces (SF). These sights are standard equipment on the American Colt-M4A1 and the Israeli Tavor-21 assault rifles that are now extensively used by the Army’s SF battalions.

Holographic sights weight barely 500 grams and run to commercially available batteries. They are also capable of providing limited magnification. More importantly, they do not “illuminate” the target with the red dot like laser designators and pointers, thereby making detection difficult.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20111116/nation.htm#16

koti
BRFite
Posts: 1119
Joined: 09 Jul 2009 22:06
Location: Hyderabad, India

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby koti » 21 Nov 2011 15:28

Gaur wrote:^^
Interstingly the plainclothesmen were holding microtavors which I have not seen even with Para SF and Marcos. As per some news reports SG/SFF had reported some serious problems with microtavor/zittara a few years back.

IIRC it was with the first lot of Tar-21(Not Zittara or MTAR). The problems were later rectified by IMI after the reports.

Marut
BRFite
Posts: 623
Joined: 25 Oct 2009 23:05
Location: The Original West Coast!!

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Marut » 21 Nov 2011 16:37

wig wrote:AK-47 rifles to get holographic sights - i hope that the same can be fitted to insas series arms


viewtopic.php?p=1191310#p1191310

It's already underway.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36284
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby SaiK » 25 Nov 2011 05:31

mmm.. never knew insas is not going well..

The Indian effort is not going well....The Indians are hoping their weapon will be more successful. But so far, progress, much less success, has been scarce....

http://www.bharatrakshak.com/NEWS/newsr ... wsid=16873

The first set of INAS equipment is supposed to appear next year, and by the end of the decade, some 500 infantry, paramilitary and special operations battalions will have this gear. But MARCOS knows that these projects never deliver on schedule, and are instead seeking foreign sources. There are several, including the U.S., France, Germany and several other European nations. If MARCOS gets away with this, it will encourage other Indian special operations forces to do the same.

The end result of this is that India is under increasing pressure, from below, to honor promises to upgrade the weapons and equipment of the infantry forces. These troops have fallen far behind other armies, and the troops, and especially their officers, are not being quiet about it. But government plans to upgrade infantry weapons and equipment have not amounted to much. The troops are not happy with this.

While India spends a lot of money on its fighter aircraft, naval vessels, and heavy ground equipment like tanks and APCs, very little is spent on taking care of the infantry. This isn't unique to the Indians, it just happens that the infantry historically doesn't get first grab at funds within the military and are usually at the bottom of the list when it comes to spending in general.



wow! quite a lot grievances.

Nikhil T
BRFite
Posts: 1042
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 06:48
Location: RAW HQ, Lodhi Road

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Nikhil T » 25 Nov 2011 06:25

^StrategyPage is far from reliable. The quality of the article alone says a lot about its credibility. I would wait for mainstream media to report this.

Viv S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5303
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Viv S » 25 Nov 2011 08:25

SaiK wrote:mmm.. never knew insas is not going well..

wow! quite a lot grievances.


The article is typical of Strategy Page.

troops, and especially their officers, are not being quiet about it.... The troops are not happy with this.

Yes. They're all sneaking off to bare their soul at Strategy Page. Writing doesn't get anymore juvenile than this. Obviously the product of a self-aggrandizing hack who can't see his third grade work for what it is.

koti
BRFite
Posts: 1119
Joined: 09 Jul 2009 22:06
Location: Hyderabad, India

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby koti » 30 Nov 2011 13:41

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 111130.htm

20 million for 3k Tar, 8.3 million for 100k Bulgarian AK's?

Are the numbers correct?

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10913
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Nov 2011 14:31

koti wrote:http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-india-goes-shopping-for-a-new-assault-rifle-for-its-army/20111130.htm

20 million for 3k Tar, 8.3 million for 100k Bulgarian AK's?

Are the numbers correct?


The report is rubbish, it says $250 Million = Rs. 13000 Crore, they can't even get their Maths correct forget about other facts.

Besides Rahul Bedi on Janes has been long known for India bashing.

silod
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 41
Joined: 04 Feb 2011 14:20

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby silod » 30 Nov 2011 17:17

I just heard that we are planning to buy the Assault Rifles for our forces from abroad. What the hell are we doing? Is OFB not able to make even a simple gun which is of world standard? If we can not make a gun, how can we expect DRDO and its other allies to give us high value platforms such as Tejas and Arjun?

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby shiv » 30 Nov 2011 17:31

silod wrote:I just heard that we are planning to buy the Assault Rifles for our forces from abroad. What the hell are we doing? Is OFB not able to make even a simple gun which is of world standard? If we can not make a gun, how can we expect DRDO and its other allies to give us high value platforms such as Tejas and Arjun?

Er why the utter contempt? Where do you hail from that enables you to say that India's performance is as dismal as your statement seems to suggest?

Gaur
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2009
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Gaur » 30 Nov 2011 17:35

silod wrote:I just heard that we are planning to buy the Assault Rifles for our forces from abroad. What the hell are we doing? Is OFB not able to make even a simple gun which is of world standard? If we can not make a gun, how can we expect DRDO and its other allies to give us high value platforms such as Tejas and Arjun?

US developed F-22 and Abrams and yet their future assault rifles (HK-417 & FN-SCAR) are being developed by Germany and Belgium. Go figure.

ParGha
BRFite
Posts: 880
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 06:01

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ParGha » 30 Nov 2011 17:38

koti wrote:20 million for 3k Tar, 8.3 million for 100k Bulgarian AK's? Are the numbers correct?

The article is a hit-job, but the price for the Bulgarian AKMs (~$83/unit) sounds about right. An acquaintance had witnessed the purchase of a batch of Romanian AKMs, where it was purchased around $80/unit. Last I heard, Tavors were being purchased at around $3500/unit (not $6666/unit, as the article seems to suggest), a shockingly high price for a rifle! Granted that the Soviets had economy-of-scale, artificially depressed production costs, and an urgent need to sell-off their surplus after 1991. But even in the West, unit price for mass-production rifles bought by large governments comes down to around $300-500. Something is very fishy here...

koti
BRFite
Posts: 1119
Joined: 09 Jul 2009 22:06
Location: Hyderabad, India

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby koti » 30 Nov 2011 17:55

^ I believe the costs might be the sum of all related equipment.
Rifles, Additional barrels, UBGL's and their ammo, Reflex sights and other scopes.
Still a high price but I do not want to complain.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby shiv » 30 Nov 2011 18:01

I believe you can get AK 47s from Darra Adamkhel in NWFP for Pakhana Rupeej 5000 each - which is one roll of toilet paper.

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10913
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Nov 2011 18:23

$83 is also pretty cheap

member_20067
BRFite
Posts: 627
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby member_20067 » 30 Nov 2011 20:21

Gaur wrote:
silod wrote:I just heard that we are planning to buy the Assault Rifles for our forces from abroad. What the hell are we doing? Is OFB not able to make even a simple gun which is of world standard? If we can not make a gun, how can we expect DRDO and its other allies to give us high value platforms such as Tejas and Arjun?

US developed F-22 and Abrams and yet their future assault rifles (HK-417 & FN-SCAR) are being developed by Germany and Belgium. Go figure.


yes but at-least they have built F-22 and Abrams ... what we have to show ... please lets not give examples of weapons system which are still going through trials... and all.. and the fact that our scientists have to work with shoe string budgets... we traditionally never been a powerhouse in metallurgy and ballistics... shopping for the best of the breed is fine.. it will at-least have a quick delivery schedule with faster induction unlike another 10 yr wait for a new generation infantry rifle promised by DRDO and OFB...

tejas
BRFite
Posts: 768
Joined: 31 Mar 2008 04:47

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby tejas » 30 Nov 2011 20:51

This is a pathetic illustration of how dysfunctional the Indian MIC is. What other country in the world can make a nuclear powered sub and ICBMs but can't make an assault rifle without ToT? The number one target of India's missiles should be the OFBs :evil: Twenty years from now they will need ToT for their next rifle.

kaangeya
BRFite
Posts: 139
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 02:34

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby kaangeya » 30 Nov 2011 21:12

Some BRFers are mistaken in thinking that small arms are low/easy tech compared to big ticket hardware. All thinking generals, marshals and admirals - at least the ones who have succeeded in battle and are still beloved and not cashiered - accord the highest importance to the quality of small arms issued to the rank and file. Because it is an age old creed of the soldier that the only thing you can depend upon to save your hide and the hides of your troop (which is what battle is about at its rawest) is your personal weapon. This is not an army thing. Ask any pilot or salt dog about how much he trusts his service pistol. Senior officers never fail to ask the jawan about how his rifle is working. Is it clean, is it firing OK, does he have all the ammo he needs. A soldier can survive on gunpowder and dirt if his rifle is in working order. After some point generals lose patience with small arms that cant keep pace with changing demands of the battle field. I would take the Rediff lifafawala's puff piece some salt. From all accounts the INSAS has performed no better or worse than any other small arms that has been used in the scorching sands at dawn and in knee deep snow at night, with some dirt thrown in for good measure. There are reams of whines written about the M1/16/4, so much that one would think Khan did not know to make a rifle. FYI 60% of the police in the US use the Glock and wont use anything else. The US armed forces use Beretta pistols, and on the field in Iraq and Afghanistan like to use the AK wherever they can find it. Except the Russians (I'll leave out the Chinese because they simply copy the Russians) all forces round the world - police or military - love to use imported small arms. There's something about Belgian/German/Italian/Austrian small arms. Like their confectionery, so their small arms.

Also it would help to read this no holds bared article written about what TFTA 'Khans would rather use.

After Action Reviews done by the Marines after the early phases of Operation Iraqi Freedom revealed that urban warfare scenarios made employment of the M16A2 difficult in some situations; Marines were picking up short AK-47s with collapsible butt-stocks, or scrounging pistols for use inside buildings.
Last edited by kaangeya on 30 Nov 2011 22:20, edited 3 times in total.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36284
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby SaiK » 30 Nov 2011 21:34

tejas wrote:This is a pathetic illustration of how dysfunctional the Indian MIC is. What other country in the world can make a nuclear powered sub and ICBMs but can't make an assault rifle without ToT? The number one target of India's missiles should be the OFBs :evil: Twenty years from now they will need ToT for their next rifle.

It is not the question of we can't do.. it is a question of what resources and commitments you have.

Even the most technologically successful Microsoft company is the most hated one on the world. Requirements changes.. and if we don't have a research and development model for consistent and iterative contextual methods, then we can fail.

It is definitely not in the ability.. but intent.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby shiv » 30 Nov 2011 22:08

tejas wrote:This is a pathetic illustration of how dysfunctional the Indian MIC is. What other country in the world can make a nuclear powered sub and ICBMs but can't make an assault rifle without ToT? The number one target of India's missiles should be the OFBs :evil: Twenty years from now they will need ToT for their next rifle.


My my. Is it necessary to get so scathing? This is a reflection of the country you were probably born in. Acting like a schoolmarm shouting at a child does not actually make you any better than your nation. Thousands of Indians have done that for years even on BRF as if they exist on some higher plane. Like America for instance. Unless of course you are not Indian and don't give a shit. If that is the case, wtf are you doing here?

Some comments here fit straight in the incompetence/inadequacy thread. This is one of them

tejas
BRFite
Posts: 768
Joined: 31 Mar 2008 04:47

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby tejas » 30 Nov 2011 23:48

^^^ I was born in Tenali, AP thank you very much. My rant is that there is still no change in the socialist mindset put us in the predicament we are currently in. The OFB will be there whether they make money, lose money or provide rifles whose barrels burst after 3 shots. Why is the contract for producing this rifle not put up for competitive bidding? Do you think a private company will do a $hitty job when $2-3 billion is at stake?

The private sector, like nature, abhors a vacuum. If there is money to be made they will always go after that money with a product. It is up to the GOI to provide the right incentives and encourage Indian industry to take over the reigns of production. Once a private group gets comfortable producing an assault rifle they will definitely have a huge incentive to improve upon or develop a new product for the IA given the amount of money at stake. Otherwise we will continue to have the absurd situation where we import piston-propeller driven trainers while simultaneously building 4-5th generation fighters. All this monry should be spent in India.

Viv S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5303
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46

Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Viv S » 30 Nov 2011 23:58

I can empathize with the more critical sentiments on the thread even if I don't agree with them. Its a shame we don't have a truly world class weapon today, not because we are a country of 1.2 billion, ancient civilizations yada yada yada, but because haven't utilized the technical expertise we have at hand. The INSAS is simple, effective and rugged, but its derivates haven't panned out quite as well, and its obviously no substitute for the Tavor.

Instead of finally giving the private sector a real shot at the Indian defence market, the MoD has been plodding after ARDE and OFB. And I'm not one of those who think the private sector is a panacea for all our ills. Ask the Tatas and Birlas to build a fighter jet or tank and they wouldn't know where to start. Fortunately the learning curve while building small arms is considerably smaller. It took ST Kinetics just over three years to develop the SAR-21 and spawn a family of weapons from it (though to be fair they had previous experience). Give the interested Indian companies (including the smaller ones) specific design requirements, an open fair competition and a deadline and they'll do one better.


Return to “Mil-Tech Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests