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Small Arms Thread

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Thakur_B
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 10 Sep 2017 23:27

Pratyush wrote:Interesting that corner shot is also present and accounted for. This means that inspite of a lot of clamour of forces being starved if basic weapons, the right weapons for the job are reaching the men.


THe cornershot is the original Israeli one, not the one made by ARDE.

MHA has been more active than the MoD in procurement of small arms.
ITBP fielded Arsenal UBGLs on INSAS and AKMs before army inducted ARDE's UBGL and also purchased ARDE UBGL when it became available.
CRPF and CISF field Glocks while even Para SF haven't been able to replace their Hi-powers despite trying.
CRPF fielded kevlar helmets before Army.
X95, MP5 and MX4 have largely replaced sterling in frontline duty in BSF, ITBP, CRPF and CISF.

MHA procurement makes MoD procurement look like all fart and no sh*t.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby shaun » 10 Sep 2017 23:56

Pratyush wrote:Interesting that corner shot is also present and accounted for. This means that inspite of a lot of clamour of forces being starved if basic weapons, the right weapons for the job are reaching the men.

P'S what is the rectangular device that's mounted on the tripod in the background.


May be a BFSR but box shaped thing with handle might be cover..

Thakur_B
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 10 Sep 2017 23:59

^^ It seems much smaller than BEL BFSR.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby shaun » 11 Sep 2017 00:06

Thakur_B wrote:^^ It seems much smaller than BEL BFSR.

yup right ...then must be some ground terminal for communication.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Karan M » 11 Sep 2017 00:52


Karan M
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Karan M » 11 Sep 2017 00:53


Thakur_B
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 11 Sep 2017 21:53

Image

Awesome. JVPC/Milaap/MSMC.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 11 Sep 2017 21:56

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/mode ... 42902.html

Chhatisgarh police becomes the first customer of JVPC/Milaap/MSMC ordering 640 units. MP police is the next potential customer.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 11 Sep 2017 21:59

INSAS Excalibur:

Image



Image



Image


It appears that INSAS Excalibur has been delivered in larger numbers than previously estimated. I would say given the frequency with which it shows up nowadays, there should be at least ~~10,000 of these in service.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby srin » 11 Sep 2017 23:21

Good to see the MSMC doing well. For years, the only reference was the Call of Duty game.
But, given that OFB manufactures Zittara (which seems to be a copy of Micro TAR) and which also fires the MINSAS, how do they compare ?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby nash » 12 Sep 2017 00:26


Thakur_B
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 12 Sep 2017 20:07

Apparently ITBP has bit the bullet on Ghatak AKM and placed orders for it.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby jamwal » 12 Sep 2017 20:42

Thakur_B wrote:
Pratyush wrote:Interesting that corner shot is also present and accounted for. This means that inspite of a lot of clamour of forces being starved if basic weapons, the right weapons for the job are reaching the men.


THe cornershot is the original Israeli one, not the one made by ARDE.

MHA has been more active than the MoD in procurement of small arms.
ITBP fielded Arsenal UBGLs on INSAS and AKMs before army inducted ARDE's UBGL and also purchased ARDE UBGL when it became available.
CRPF and CISF field Glocks while even Para SF haven't been able to replace their Hi-powers despite trying.
CRPF fielded kevlar helmets before Army.
X95, MP5 and MX4 have largely replaced sterling in frontline duty in BSF, ITBP, CRPF and CISF.

MHA procurement makes MoD procurement look like all fart and no sh*t.


Regarding ITBP, BSF , CRPF and CISF: Just my personal observations from my trips to some border areas and other places where these forces are deployed.
Sterling is in service even in highly sensitive areas like in Srinagar and nearby towns. BSF do have have a few MX4 every now and then. But majority of CRPF troops (unless they have INSAS) have old Sterlings and a very small minority have Tavor derivatives. CISF usually have INSAS, AKs and MP5s. Never seen MP5 these with other three forces.


CRPF troops deployed in Kashmir towns and villages have fairly good anti-riot gear like armour, transparent shields, tear gas launchers, pellet guns and helmets. But not so sure about modern helmets.
ITBP near Indo - Tibet border mostly have INSAS.
Haven't had the chance to see RR troops with full battle gear in a long time but they look really intimidating while on patrols or missions.

There are a lot of black INSAS visible, but never had the chance to check if they are Ghatak or Excalibur. INSAS LMG with bipod is sighted every now and then on small vehicles or trucks.

I had the chance to see BSF battalion setting up a camp near Pahalgam just before Amarnath yatra started earlier this year. They have a pretty good selection of firearms. Didn't want to push my luck taking pictures.
Last edited by jamwal on 12 Sep 2017 20:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 12 Sep 2017 20:46

[quote][[quote="Thakur_B"]Image

Imagine this puppy with a silenser

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby jamwal » 12 Sep 2017 20:48

What is this "wire" on sight ?

Pratyush
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Pratyush » 12 Sep 2017 20:51

Switch for the sight or the lazer

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Manish_P » 12 Sep 2017 21:24

Wire is for power to the laser module of the ITL MARS sight

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Kakarat » 20 Sep 2017 16:07

Sitharaman's daily meetings with service chiefs give momentum to stalled defence projects

Recently, in one of the meetings, the army raised the issue of its tender for procuring around 4,450 Light Machine Guns getting retracted as it was found to be a single vendor case, where Israeli firm IWI was the only company found fit during the trials.
...
To offer a solution to the force, the DRDO has offered to provide LMG developed by it on its own for the army, which has apprehensions that its procurement may get delayed.

However, the defence minister and the army asked the DRDO to provide the indigenously developed LMG within 30 days for extensive trials before it could be inducted officially.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby suryag » 20 Sep 2017 16:13

^^^ From the link above
The minister has also decided to hold meetings of the Defence Acquisiton Council, the highest decision making body on defence procurement, every fortnight.


MP used to run it every month ?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Kakarat » 20 Sep 2017 17:06

Saurav Jha‏ @SJha1618

The indigenously developed ARDE light machine gun has a got a second wind with the import tender getting scrapped.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Yagnasri » 20 Sep 2017 20:09

If she is meeting service cheifs on daily basis they lot of backend burning will be there for baboons of MoD. Now services also do not have any excuse if they are in a position to convince her about their requirements. Hope she read what is written here about LCA and Arjun.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 20 Sep 2017 20:54

And we were wondering where did the ARDE's LMG go.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ramana » 21 Sep 2017 04:19

Thakur_B, This ARDE LMG what caliber is it 5.56 mm or 7.62 mm?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 21 Sep 2017 07:05

7.62 NATO Ramana. Still not known whether belt / magazine fed.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby shiv » 21 Sep 2017 07:41

Kakarat wrote:Saurav Jha‏ @SJha1618

The indigenously developed ARDE light machine gun has a got a second wind with the import tender getting scrapped.

OT comment.

Mainstream journalists are able to take scathing criticism and almost never block anyone because they want their reports ot be read. They may mute the critic but the critic or oiseaule will always be able to read the report. Shekhar Gupta, Sagarika Ghose, Sardesai etc fall into this category. They remain visible to everyone because of this.

There is another bunch who are very sensitive and simply block people and thereby reduce their own visibility. Saurav Jha blocked me for reasons unknown to me so I cannot see his Tweets. Not that I am bothered. If any news in genuine - it will appear from multiple sources. All this bullshit of "exclusive" and "Only I am reporting this" is to grab eyeballs.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ramana » 21 Sep 2017 09:24

Or just eye is superficial.

Thakur_B Great.
Let's look around.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ks_sachin » 21 Sep 2017 10:15

Thakur_B wrote:Image
Image
OFB 7.62 mm GPMG. Lighter variant of fn mag.

Is this the one Thakur_B?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ks_sachin » 21 Sep 2017 10:16

Thakur_B wrote:A better look at the lighter fn-mag derived gpmg.
Image
Image
_________________


MSMC/JVPC/Milaap looks nicely done. Robust with good finish. From the people who have been to the exhibition, it appears that the MSMC/JVPC/Milaap shall be chambered in 9 mm soon, instead of 5.56x30 MINSAS ammunition.
Image
Image
Image
___________________________________

Another promising design that appears to be headed nowhere. Around 250 AAR/MCIWS prototypes have been made by OFB and about 25000 rounds fired on an average from them.
Image
Image
Image
___________________________

OFB has also presented two new rifles. One appears to be an AK-103 rip off, the other one, judging by the size of magwell appears to be INSAS Mk-1C derivative chambered in 7.62x51. Initially the rumour was rife that the AKM derivative is the actual OFB gun chambered in 7.62x51 but comparing the size of magwell, it appears that the INSAS derivative may be the one chambered in 7.62 NATO.
Image
AK-103 clone in the center, the new rifle on the right being held in hand.
Image
Image
Image

^^ The magazine wells are clearly visible, indicating that the new OFB INSAS derivative is chambered in 7.62 NATO. Here is the 5.56 INSAS Mk-1c prototype for comparison. Notice the difference in barrel profile compared to AKM, flash suppressor/ muzzle brake, overall length of the rifle.
Image


The top one?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby jamwal » 21 Sep 2017 10:22

Small arms factory, Kanpur, 7.62 mm belt fed machine gun. Check blue poster

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ks_sachin » 21 Sep 2017 11:28

Os is it OFB or is it ARDE?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby jamwal » 21 Sep 2017 12:54

Takes 5 seconds to get the result on google http://ofb.gov.in/units/index.php?unit=saf

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ks_sachin » 21 Sep 2017 16:55

jamwal wrote:Takes 5 seconds to get the result on google http://ofb.gov.in/units/index.php?unit=saf

I don't need googol for that. Know what is in Kanpur vs what is in Pune. Is LMG by OFBor DRDO because Jha says ARDE.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ramana » 21 Sep 2017 21:57

ks_sachin wrote:
jamwal wrote:Takes 5 seconds to get the result on google http://ofb.gov.in/units/index.php?unit=saf

I don't need googol for that. Know what is in Kanpur vs what is in Pune. Is LMG by OFBor DRDO because Jha says ARDE.


The OFB Kanpur version is the full MG not LMG.

So its the ARDE developed LMG. Its possibly made at OFB Kanpur based on the poster.

Its a belt fed 7.62 mm x 51 NATO cartridge model.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby VinodTK » 21 Sep 2017 22:39

Sitharaman's daily meetings with service chiefs give momentum to stalled defence projects
Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman's daily meetings with the three service chiefs and defence secretary have started yielding results as they have started taking decisions to push the stalled projects and proposals of the armed forces.
Recently, in one of the meetings, the army raised the issue of its tender for procuring around 4,450 Light Machine Guns getting retracted as it was found to be a single vendor case, where Israeli firm IWI was the only company found fit during the trials.
Defence ministry procurement procedures discourage acquisition in cases where only one firm is in the fray for offering product.
After the tender was scrapped, the army put across in the meeting that the lack of these machine guns was hampering its operational preparedness, sources told Mail Today.
To offer a solution to the force, the DRDO has offered to provide LMG developed by it on its own for the army, which has apprehensions that its procurement may get delayed.
However, the defence minister and the army asked the DRDO to provide the indigenously developed LMG within 30 days for extensive trials before it could be inducted officially. I hope people will be held responsible for the dates
:
:
:


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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 22 Sep 2017 06:25

ks_sachin wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:Image
Image
OFB 7.62 mm GPMG. Lighter variant of fn mag.

Is this the one Thakur_B?



That is modernised fn mag from ofb. Not confirmed whether related to ARDE project.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Pratyush » 22 Sep 2017 11:59

Can any one develop LMG in 30 days flat or that is a typo.

Second question why is the INSAS LMG not provided with a drum magazine. That will increase sustained fie rates.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 22 Sep 2017 12:47

>>Second question why is the INSAS LMG not provided with a drum magazine. That will increase sustained fie rates.
<<

Think Magazines are a backward calculation of Army ORBAT of what the firepower of a Platoon needs to be.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Kakarat » 22 Sep 2017 12:54

Pratyush wrote:Can any one develop LMG in 30 days flat or that is a typo.

Second question why is the INSAS LMG not provided with a drum magazine. That will increase sustained fie rates.


From the article it seems ARDE LMG was already in advanced stages of development and was not considered in favor of Import considering urgency of requirement

From comments in sandeep unnithan's videos on OFB guns it seems a belt feed INSAS LMG is also under development

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby prasan » 24 Sep 2017 13:11

JVPC full auto


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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Aditya G » 24 Sep 2017 17:35

IMHO this is the LMG in question. FN MAG derivatives are in service with US as well:

Image

Thakur_B wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:Is this the one Thakur_B?



That is modernised fn mag from ofb. Not confirmed whether related to ARDE project.


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