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Small Arms Thread

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Ravi Karumanchiri
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 10 May 2017 08:46

Small arms boutique video, MUST WATCH! (Fans of Tarantino will recognize it from Sam Jackson's TV in the hit movie 'Jackie Brown'.)

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ashishvikas » 13 May 2017 21:26

MCIWS EXCLUSIVE

The Advanced Assault Rifle (AAR) , previously known as MCIWS, is going to be inducted into Indian Armed Forces within just 6-10 months if any further problem doesn't arise. All modifications, suggested and demanded by army, have been done. All trials have been conducted successfully. The new model has reduced the weight further, means AAR is lighter than early MCIWS. It can accept 5.56, 6.8 and 7.62 mm ammo, giving an edge. AK magazines can be used in 7.62mm configuration. Weapon rate of fire is 600-650 RPM with 500m range. More than 250 models have been evaluated and more than 25000 rounds have been fired till now from each rifle.

For those asking for source, our admins attended Bhartiya Vigyan Sammelan Pune, where they got the info from DRDO officials themselves.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 1809547174

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby jamwal » 13 May 2017 22:52

Image

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ARDE Advanced Assault Rifle with an ADT/ITL Raptor red dot sight and the Corner Firing Weapon with an OFB 1A 9mm Auto pistol on display at DRDO Exhibition held in Pune.
The Advanced Assault Rifle was previously known as the MCIWS. Interestingly even the receiver markings on this rifle on display have MCIWS etched on them instead of AAR. The MCIWS was originally designed to be a multi calibre rifle available k. 5.56x45, 7.62x39 and 6.8mm, it is not known if the AAR is multi calibre capable now or not as according to some sources the rifle is only being developed in the 5.56x45mm calibre.
As can be seen the flash hider is an exact INSAS copy, the gas block and front sight post as well being taken from the INSAS. We can see a bayonet lug just below the gas block.The rifle has the same long stroke piston design with the same two lug bolt as the INSAS to reduce development time, although this is just a speculation on our part.

The rifle is provided with an AR-15 style magazine release, bolt release, safety selector, charging handle and magwell. The magwell has cutoff for reading the number of cartridges in the magazine. The magazine is transparent and similar to the INSAS magazine in concept, although it would be an AR-15 style magazine instead of the rock and lock magazine of the INSAS which was derived from the AK. The AAR has a redesigned buttstock which differs from the original AR-15 style buttstock. It is folding and has adjustable length of pull. The AAR link the MCIWS doesnt have the dust cover in the ejection port and the magazine well cutoff is asking for ingress of dust and dirt inside the rifle.

It would seem to take down the rifle the takedown pins near the handguard and safety selector lever would need to be removed. This would cause the upper and lower receivers of the rifle to separate and it would be possible to remove the bolt group and gas piston, although again this is purely speculation on our part. The rifle is most probably machined from a solid billet of metal like the AR-15 for both the AR-15 instead of being manufactured from stamped sheet metal like the AK and INSAS.

The rifle has rails on the upper receiver which can be used for attaching optics. The rifle also has a small quad rail segment near the forward end of the handguard for attaching of vertical foregrips, laser pointers, flashlights and other accessories.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby shiv » 14 May 2017 07:45

ashishvikas wrote:MCIWS EXCLUSIVE

The Advanced Assault Rifle (AAR) , previously known as MCIWS, is going to be inducted into Indian Armed Forces within just 6-10 months if any further problem doesn't arise. All modifications, suggested and demanded by army, have been done. All trials have been conducted successfully. The new model has reduced the weight further, means AAR is lighter than early MCIWS. It can accept 5.56, 6.8 and 7.62 mm ammo, giving an edge. AK magazines can be used in 7.62mm configuration. Weapon rate of fire is 600-650 RPM with 500m range. More than 250 models have been evaluated and more than 25000 rounds have been fired till now from each rifle.

For those asking for source, our admins attended Bhartiya Vigyan Sammelan Pune, where they got the info from DRDO officials themselves.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 1809547174

+1 to a concise informative post with source and specs

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 20 May 2017 07:13

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OFB 7.62 mm GPMG. Lighter variant of fn mag.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 21 May 2017 08:41

A better look at the lighter fn-mag derived gpmg.
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_________________


MSMC/JVPC/Milaap looks nicely done. Robust with good finish. From the people who have been to the exhibition, it appears that the MSMC/JVPC/Milaap shall be chambered in 9 mm soon, instead of 5.56x30 MINSAS ammunition.
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Another promising design that appears to be headed nowhere. Around 250 AAR/MCIWS prototypes have been made by OFB and about 25000 rounds fired on an average from them.
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OFB has also presented two new rifles. One appears to be an AK-103 rip off, the other one, judging by the size of magwell appears to be INSAS Mk-1C derivative chambered in 7.62x51. Initially the rumour was rife that the AKM derivative is the actual OFB gun chambered in 7.62x51 but comparing the size of magwell, it appears that the INSAS derivative may be the one chambered in 7.62 NATO.
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AK-103 clone in the center, the new rifle on the right being held in hand.
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^^ The magazine wells are clearly visible, indicating that the new OFB INSAS derivative is chambered in 7.62 NATO. Here is the 5.56 INSAS Mk-1c prototype for comparison. Notice the difference in barrel profile compared to AKM, flash suppressor/ muzzle brake, overall length of the rifle.
Image

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby abhik » 21 May 2017 10:00

Is the Army still looking for a multi caliber rifle? Or has it been dropped after a wild goose chase.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Gyan » 21 May 2017 12:11

OFB Should have tried 7.62x51 in MCIWS variant which is more advanced design rather than in INSAS MK 1C.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 21 May 2017 14:33

Gyan wrote:OFB Should have tried 7.62x51 in MCIWS variant which is more advanced design rather than in INSAS MK 1C.


OFB was given 4 months to be ready with a new rifle. I doubt they had the time to redesign MCIWS, itself a prototype, in that timeframe.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Gyan » 21 May 2017 17:35

4 months is adequate time in world of CAD CAM for a large manufacturing company in the relevant field. They already have manufacturing line of SLR for troublesome components like barrel, breech etc. MCIWS is reverse engineered HK416, they just had to copy HK417. The real problem might be that MCIWS is DRDO product & OFB did not involve them.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Gyan » 21 May 2017 17:36

But nice pics Thakur ji. Is LMG rotary or pivoting bolt?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 21 May 2017 18:42

Gyan wrote:4 months is adequate time in world of CAD CAM for a large manufacturing company in the relevant field. They already have manufacturing line of SLR for troublesome components like barrel, breech etc. MCIWS is reverse engineered HK416, they just had to copy HK417. The real problem might be that MCIWS is DRDO product & OFB did not involve them.


AAR/MCIWS is not reverse engineered HK416, the 416, cannot field a folding buttstock as the stock houses the recoil spring. Internet speculation aside, at this point it is not even known whether it is a long stroke or short stroke design.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Gyan » 22 May 2017 00:20

Ok, MCIWS is hugely inspired by HK-416.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby shiv » 22 May 2017 06:19

The original inspiration for all guns is here. Same basic design.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 22 May 2017 06:45

Gyan wrote:Ok, MCIWS is hugely inspired by HK-416.


AR-15 family's ergonomics to be precise. Just like almost every non bullpup rifle being made today with few exceptions like galil, AK series and some SiG designs. The layout has its merits, easy to modify to ambidexterity, all controls (mag release, bolt release and safety) can be easily done without taking hands off rifle. Almost every new design is "inspired" from this layout.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Gyan » 22 May 2017 11:10

INSAS Was not inspired with this design hence sights were mounted on pivoting dust cover. It's a good thing to be able to chose the right design/layout from among dozens floating around. The point was, before being way laid, that 7.62x51 should also have adopted the same layout.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Pratyush » 22 May 2017 14:36

shiv wrote:The original inspiration for all guns is here. Same basic design.


:mrgreen: :rotfl:

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 23 May 2017 05:50

Image

The AK-103 is even stamped AK-103, which indicates this is a license build by one of the OFB factories. Apparently OFB's been trying to build them under license for a while.
http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories4038_OFB_seeks_nod_to_make_AK_rifles_in_India.htm
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2015/09/kalashnikov-rifles-to-be-made-in-india.html

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Gyan » 23 May 2017 18:38

AK 103 is just AK 103 which is being offered by OFB like they offered Tavor ie zitara

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 24 May 2017 05:49

Image

PARA SF firing GALIL short automatic rifle (not sure if we operate some or part of carbine trials).

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 24 May 2017 06:57

Image

Franchi SPAS-15 tactical shotgun on the leftmost NSG commando.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 24 May 2017 07:41

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IWI Galatz in service with MARCOS

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Kakkaji » 24 May 2017 22:17

Might as well standardize on the Israeli small arms.

IA did not order Excalibur, and will not order MCIWS either. So, why waste time? Just give order to Punj-Lloyd under MII and be done with it.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Srutayus » 25 May 2017 02:30

IA did not order Excalibur, and will not order MCIWS either. So, why waste time? Just give order to Punj-Lloyd under MII and be done with it.

And some more indigenous efforts bite the dust...not because of the products, which appear to be very good designs. The small arms design capabilities at OFB and ARDE, the only organizations with this expertise in this country, which took decades to build, will be lost. :cry:

The climb from component manufacturing and assembly to design and design for manufacture for companies like Punj Lloyd will be a steep one, if they do attempt it that is.

And so the story continues... :roll:

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Viv S » 27 May 2017 12:24

What weapon am I looking at? Wooden stock with a scope?

Image

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 27 May 2017 12:34

Ak-47 .. alot of RR aks are getting new after market optics


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