Small Arms Thread
Re: Small Arms Thread
Cross post
I am slowly going through few hundred pages of CAG reports on OFB. My observations:-
Army wants 600 FN GPMGs but OFB produces 125 per annum. Army wants 2500 Carl Gustafs OFB produces 600 Per annum. OFB Producing NIL HMGs and AGLs against demand of 250 per annum. Dhanush not been ordered by Army till May 2015 but in any case OFB cannot manufacture it as even the tenders for building for the manufacturing plants not issued in last 5 years. OFB produces NIL sniper rifles and NIL Ghatak rifles.
OFB Cannot produce 40mm ammo for UBGL, sniper ammo, tank machine gun rounds, tank FSAPDS rounds, AK rounds etc.
I am slowly going through few hundred pages of CAG reports on OFB. My observations:-
Army wants 600 FN GPMGs but OFB produces 125 per annum. Army wants 2500 Carl Gustafs OFB produces 600 Per annum. OFB Producing NIL HMGs and AGLs against demand of 250 per annum. Dhanush not been ordered by Army till May 2015 but in any case OFB cannot manufacture it as even the tenders for building for the manufacturing plants not issued in last 5 years. OFB produces NIL sniper rifles and NIL Ghatak rifles.
OFB Cannot produce 40mm ammo for UBGL, sniper ammo, tank machine gun rounds, tank FSAPDS rounds, AK rounds etc.
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Re: Small Arms Thread
Gyan,
Good exercise...anything on quality, rejection numbers, fatalities due to faulty ammo ?
Good exercise...anything on quality, rejection numbers, fatalities due to faulty ammo ?
Re: Small Arms Thread
doc, the reference to darra was not made out of need to put down OFB as being equal to TSP land. all saidvand done, metallurgy and overall performance of INSAS will be miles ahead of any shed knock off as you would note. issue is more that when fit and finish is achieved by small scale hole in wall gunsmiths but ofb doesnt care, its galling. fortunately ofb is not reflective of psus too. we have seen bdl, hal made items. they are miles ahead of ofb. ofbs issue is that of a unionized, who cares workforce plus old eqpt, chalta hain management (refer to reports of ofb honchos on take in upa era)..all creating this mess. imho.
Re: Small Arms Thread
Huge amount of such details except on fatalities. Example 100% HMG production rejected. 22-60% Carl Gustafs production rejected inspite of the fact that all major components 75% overall imported. Anyway, you will need to read them, too extensive to post.
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Re: Small Arms Thread
The problem is the OFB is a 100 pct sarkari organisation with its own officer cadres as well IOFS. Another all India service known as IAS (Ordnance factories). The bird itself is run by a IAS officer at top. And HQ is Calcutta steeednin old unionism and the worst of public sector ethos.Karan M wrote:doc, the reference to darra was not made out of need to put down OFB as being equal to TSP land. all saidvand done, metallurgy and overall performance of INSAS will be miles ahead of any shed knock off as you would note. issue is more that when fit and finish is achieved by small scale hole in wall gunsmiths but ofb doesnt care, its galling. fortunately ofb is not reflective of psus too. we have seen bdl, hal made items. they are miles ahead of ofb. ofbs issue is that of a unionized, who cares workforce plus old eqpt, chalta hain management (refer to reports of ofb honchos on take in upa era)..all creating this mess. imho.
This can be changed by the right leadership. One example is Damodar Valley Coproration. It was a messa and close to bankruptcy when Gen Bharat took over as CMD. He is Victoria Cross and tipped to be Army Chief after Manekshaw was not made chief by Indira Ghandhi. Sam Bahadur said this of him 'you were not allowed to become chief because they didn't want two strong chiefs in a row
He turned Damodar Valley corporation around. One story is how he used to talk to the lowest staff who had never had a senior gazetted officer talk to them forget a CMD. And he would enquire after their family and build a personal connection. That got him loyalty and they were willing to for him what they never did for others.
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Re: Small Arms Thread
One good way of seeing how inefficient and corrupt an organisation is to see the dowry market in UP and Bihar or even in the Reddy community I am told. Check the going rate for different professions - IAS, IPS, MBAs, doctors etc. How difficult or easy it is to get a bride is also a very good indication. IOFS officers are not doing too badly in this market Im told. Amongst the govt professions DRDO and Fauj is right at the bottom. PSUs come next. IOFS after that and then IAS IPS. IRS and Customs and Crntral Excise do well too. One very interning one is PJS or provincial judicial service. close to the top. PWD, Irrigation is below IAS IPS.
Fascinating to see market economics and the wisdom of the crowd in action.
Fascinating to see market economics and the wisdom of the crowd in action.
Re: Small Arms Thread
Management failure in setting up new OFB plants or ordering capital equipment cannot be explained by Unionisation. Nor can MOD failure to allocate budgets for modernisation, upgradation, new manufacturing lines etc is result of unionisation. The poor receiver cover of INSAS can be due to absense of capital equipment (heavy press?) to make a single piece receiver cover. The continued delay and failure of Bihar howitzer ammo project, Nalanda is classic case of corruption, red tape and incompetence rolled into Babudom.
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Re: Small Arms Thread
Oh absolutely. I was saying that leadership can change things even in a unionised PSU. It's all a question of management and leadership and organisation structure. You have obviously studied these issues in depth. What would your solution be ?
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Re: Small Arms Thread
I guess you are saying that more budgets also matter ? but then you yourself posted that tenders have not been issued and allocations have not been used. Surely that is a process and management issue.
Re: Small Arms Thread
I am saying that management is a bigger problem then labour unionisation. Nobody questions incompetence of Babus, IAS lobby etc. For instance, big western companies also have very very heavy unionisation.
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Re: Small Arms Thread
Sure, I agree. Btw thanks for the effort on the analysis - very useful.
Re: Small Arms Thread
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... ernization
Modi's Looking to Buy the Indian Army 185,000 Deadly Assault Rifles
Modi's Looking to Buy the Indian Army 185,000 Deadly Assault Rifles
India’s armed forces have embarked on a shopping spree for modern assault rifles, body armor and helmets, providing a potential boost to global arms suppliers.
The 1.3 million-strong military is abandoning its two decade-old Indian made rifles and seeking to outfit its infantry with more up-to-date equipment, scouting for a new model on the global market for 185,000 assault rifles. The Ministry of Defence also needs to buy hundreds of thousands of helmets and tens of thousands of bullet proof vests.
The moves are part of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s $250 billion push to modernize India’s armed forces, as infantry continue to face the brunt of deadly attacks in disputed border areas such as Kashmir and the north-east.
Plans to buy new equipment from overseas, however, have been held back by bureaucratic delays and the military’s desire to balance the needs of troops against efforts to have equipment built domestically under Modi’s "Make in India" program, a key plank in his drive to boost local manufacturing.
"It’s encouraging that they’re going ahead with this, but it’s discouraging that it’s not made under ‘Make in India,’ " said Anit Mukherjee, a former major in the Indian Army and assistant professor at Singapore’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies. "The fact that it took 10 years for Indians to go ahead and say, ‘we’re importing’ means the bureaucracy is still holding back modernization of the armed
Re: Small Arms Thread
From Kunal Biswas, DFI
It's a good looking design from OFB. The finish looks remarkably good.Kunal Biswas wrote:At first glance, The rifle look solid, The requirement given by user to put in wood stock, It has a nice bipod and p-rail for placing a 10X optics, It got adjustable cheek raiser and rubber pad at butt-stock, Its bolt action rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm, It comes with its own muzzle breaker and suppressor, The design is finished and in user trails but, The design may change and specs in time to come based on user feedback.The rifle chambered for 7.62x51mm NATO rounds, It feature a 8cm long P-rail for placing its optical scope of 10x magnification for sniping role, Due to p-rail other optics can as well fit on to it, The rifle requirement set out in late 2015 by Army and paramilitary.The rifle feature a adjustable cheek raiser and a rubber pad at its butt-stock so does sling attachment, The stock is made out of wood at request of users, The requirement is for a heavy rifle which can absorb recoil unlike those light designs made of fiber in new generation sniper rifles. The rifle yet to see many improvement over this original design in time.
Re: Small Arms Thread
Bolt action rifle, so a modernized 303?
Re: Small Arms Thread
^^ My problem is with the wooden Frame of the Rifle. Most Gunsmiths the world over have moved away from Wood for Sniper rifles.
Wood changes due to heat/cold/humidity/rain and screws up the zero of the rifle and its shooting ability over a period of time. Dont really know why the "user" asked or a wooden frame in this day and age.
Wood changes due to heat/cold/humidity/rain and screws up the zero of the rifle and its shooting ability over a period of time. Dont really know why the "user" asked or a wooden frame in this day and age.
Re: Small Arms Thread
Not sure if posted or discussed here. Munger is manufacturing quality AK-47, 9 mm carbines and Beretta pistols.
Lot of ex-Army and OF employees, so AK-47 and carbines are no surprises. What is surprising is the Beretta copies, since its uncommon in India where we use Browning pistols.
More than the weapons, the supply of ammunition is disturbing. I've always wondered how Naxals get their ammunition, especially for robbed SLRs and INSAS.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ille ... 07838.html
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ak-4 ... 65752.html
http://www.news18.com/news/india/made-i ... 93172.html
Lot of ex-Army and OF employees, so AK-47 and carbines are no surprises. What is surprising is the Beretta copies, since its uncommon in India where we use Browning pistols.
More than the weapons, the supply of ammunition is disturbing. I've always wondered how Naxals get their ammunition, especially for robbed SLRs and INSAS.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ille ... 07838.html
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ak-4 ... 65752.html
http://www.news18.com/news/india/made-i ... 93172.html
Re: Small Arms Thread
Doesn't seem related to SMLE family.Aditya_V wrote:Bolt action rifle, so a modernized 303?
Free floating barrel and good bedding should not create that much problems with wood stock.rkhanna wrote:^^ My problem is with the wooden Frame of the Rifle. Most Gunsmiths the world over have moved away from Wood for Sniper rifles.
Wood changes due to heat/cold/humidity/rain and screws up the zero of the rifle and its shooting ability over a period of time. Dont really know why the "user" asked or a wooden frame in this day and age.
Re: Small Arms Thread
I thought sniper rifles are always bolt action because there is no need for the extra complexity (and noise) of a chamber being loaded after the previous shot. I also suspect (without proof) that reciprocal action of automatic bolt slamming back would set up barrel vibrations that cannot be good for accuracy - at least at longer distances. Even lousy rifles can be accurate at short range simply because a high muzzle velocity causes a straight path.Aditya_V wrote:Bolt action rifle, so a modernized 303?
Some more speculation now. My shooting is 99% air rifle. I have both synthetic stock and wooden stock. The synthetic stock which is hollow acts like an echo chamber and causes a loud "Tthokk" - less so in the wooden stock rifles. I just wonder if the decibel level of a synthetic stock may be higher? Could not find info on Googal.
Re: Small Arms Thread
Americans like their sniper rifles to be bolt action and tend to sneer at their Roosi counterparts who have auto rifles like SVD Dragunov forgetting Russia has produced the sniper since WWII.
Re: Small Arms Thread
"Americans like their sniper rifles to be bolt action and tend to sneer at their Roosi counterparts who have auto rifles like SVD Dragunov forgetting Russia has produced the sniper since WWII."
Well its a trade off over Accuracy and Range and Second Shot Capability I believe.
Secondly The Soviet doctrine called for Squad Level designated marksmen. For a conscript army it needed to be cheap and mass produced. A DM was essentially the best shot in the squad/platoon achieving 90% hits at 200m.
This is something (DM and Sniper) that the American doctrine makes a distinct difference between a DM and a Sniper in terms of training and usage. The SVD falls in the DMR category.
BTW Russian Spetz Sniper teams use SV-98 Bolt action sniper rile. SVD is relegated to DMR roles.
Anyways, I remember reading somewhere that the The SVD has tighter barrel twists to fire Armour piercing incendiary rounds which in-turn greatly decreases accuracy of the weapon.
Well its a trade off over Accuracy and Range and Second Shot Capability I believe.
Secondly The Soviet doctrine called for Squad Level designated marksmen. For a conscript army it needed to be cheap and mass produced. A DM was essentially the best shot in the squad/platoon achieving 90% hits at 200m.
This is something (DM and Sniper) that the American doctrine makes a distinct difference between a DM and a Sniper in terms of training and usage. The SVD falls in the DMR category.
BTW Russian Spetz Sniper teams use SV-98 Bolt action sniper rile. SVD is relegated to DMR roles.
Anyways, I remember reading somewhere that the The SVD has tighter barrel twists to fire Armour piercing incendiary rounds which in-turn greatly decreases accuracy of the weapon.
Re: Small Arms Thread
"Free floating barrel and good bedding should not create that much problems with wood stock.
"
Well Dont really know what you mean. (over my head lol) but the issue regarding wooden furniture was explained to me by somebody I know personally who was (at the time) a USMC Marksmanship coach.
"
Well Dont really know what you mean. (over my head lol) but the issue regarding wooden furniture was explained to me by somebody I know personally who was (at the time) a USMC Marksmanship coach.
Re: Small Arms Thread
And Americans do have their own semi-automatics DMRs - Knights SR-25 (with slight differences and different designations for the Army and Marines), the FN SCAR - SSR (Sniper Support Rifle) and a few more (like the Anti material Barrett M82 A1)
rkhanna wrote:"Americans like their sniper rifles to be bolt action and tend to sneer at their Roosi counterparts who have auto rifles like SVD Dragunov forgetting Russia has produced the sniper since WWII."
Well its a trade off over Accuracy and Range and Second Shot Capability I believe.
Secondly The Soviet doctrine called for Squad Level designated marksmen. For a conscript army it needed to be cheap and mass produced. A DM was essentially the best shot in the squad/platoon achieving 90% hits at 200m.
This is something (DM and Sniper) that the American doctrine makes a distinct difference between a DM and a Sniper in terms of training and usage. The SVD falls in the DMR category.
BTW Russian Spetz Sniper teams use SV-98 Bolt action sniper rile. SVD is relegated to DMR roles.
Anyways, I remember reading somewhere that the The SVD has tighter barrel twists to fire Armour piercing incendiary rounds which in-turn greatly decreases accuracy of the weapon.
Re: Small Arms Thread
This is an odd statement. I cannot think why tighter barrel twists should decrease accuracy. At most it might decrease range and even that is unlikely IMOrkhanna wrote: Anyways, I remember reading somewhere that the The SVD has tighter barrel twists to fire Armour piercing incendiary rounds which in-turn greatly decreases accuracy of the weapon.
Re: Small Arms Thread
Allow me to play the devil's advocate here. Couple of things stand out in the report. First, I can't believe the end-user of a military sniper rifle asked for a wood stock! Wood stocks are subject to warping, cracking (especially in extreme cold and heat) and are temperature-sensitive. Sure you can glass bed a stock, but when the stock starts to warp, glass bedding won't save it. Free floating the barrel may also have the same issues unless you have very wide gaps between the barrel and the stock. Also wondering why they want wood furniture for something which is likely to be camouflaged. Not to mention the hassle of oiling the wood stock in the field periodically (and no, gun oil doesn't work on wood stocks, you want a different oil for that (linseed perhaps?)).Thakur_B wrote:From Kunal Biswas, DFIKunal Biswas wrote: At first glance, The rifle look solid, The requirement given by user to put in wood stock, It has a nice bipod and p-rail for placing a 10X optics, It got adjustable cheek raiser and rubber pad at butt-stock, Its bolt action rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm, It comes with its own muzzle breaker and suppressor,
The rubber pad appears glued on to the end of the buttstock (and not very well either). You'd think that it would be adjustable to accommodate users of different dimensions. Also, I wonder how well it would hold up in snowy weather/desert conditions without cracking.
And I'm not too sold about that so-called "pistol grip" behind the trigger either. It seems to just get in the way without being useful as a grip. What's with the attempt at applying decorative cross-hatching in a military rifle?? There's no purpose for it at all. The cross-hatching looks like it was done freehand by a bored schoolboy using a compass from a Camlin geometry box. Also, the stock looks somewhat overly heavy in some parts and less in others (e.g.) look at the trigger guard. This must be the first rifle I've seen where the trigger guard is actually part of the stock itself. They could reduce weight quite a bit by getting rid of that excess stock material.
I wonder if the end-user actually asked for this stuff or is that what the OFB guys claim as their excuse ("not our fault, end user asked for this as a feature onlee")
As far as bolt-actions are concerned, there are 3 major types around:Aditya_V wrote:Bolt action rifle, so a modernized 303?
1. Enfield action (cocks on bolt closing)
2. Mauser action (cocks on bolt opening)
3. Mosin Nagant action
Needless to say, all three designs are from the late 19th/early 20th century, but there's very little that can be improved upon them. I'm guessing the rifle has the Enfield action, simply because OFB has previous experience manufacturing this type (the Ishapore 2A1 for instance, which was also 7.62x51 mm. incidentally).
Re: Small Arms Thread
Western writers don't even considered SVD as a sniper rifle but only a DMR but our Soviet/
RUssian friends have found it to be adequate for almost 4 decades .
RUssian friends have found it to be adequate for almost 4 decades .
Re: Small Arms Thread
Russians don't consider it a sniper rifle either, they have always treated it as a designated marksman rifle and it was introduced for their platoons initially as a squad support weapon (the initial Russian name for it didn't even mention the name "Sniper").Gyan wrote:Western writers don't even considered SVD as a sniper rifle but only a DMR but our Soviet/
RUssian friends have found it to be adequate for almost 4 decades .
Re: Small Arms Thread
A couple of questions regarding this weapon
1. What is the max range you can take out/ Kill an enemy with a 7.62*51mm sniper rifle. For sniper rifles why not go with non standard catridges wihich can take out enemy at 2KM etc.
2. Is there no record long range sniper kills along the LOC. Why dont we have sniper teams taking out the Pakis along the LOC?
1. What is the max range you can take out/ Kill an enemy with a 7.62*51mm sniper rifle. For sniper rifles why not go with non standard catridges wihich can take out enemy at 2KM etc.
2. Is there no record long range sniper kills along the LOC. Why dont we have sniper teams taking out the Pakis along the LOC?
Re: Small Arms Thread
What is the genesis and status of the weapon in this link?
http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/10.htm
http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/10.htm
Re: Small Arms Thread
I can only speculate. 2 km kills mean 2 km clear line of sight. Hilly/mountainous/forested terrain will not allow this. I think any sniper rifle should be able to to 1 -1.2 km It is not the killing power of the bullet but the accuracy that would be significant.Aditya_V wrote:A couple of questions regarding this weapon
1. What is the max range you can take out/ Kill an enemy with a 7.62*51mm sniper rifle. For sniper rifles why not go with non standard catridges wihich can take out enemy at 2KM etc.
2. Is there no record long range sniper kills along the LOC. Why dont we have sniper teams taking out the Pakis along the LOC?
I don't think India advertises sniper kills which I think must be occurring. That said if you read an article by Gen Ata Hasnain that appeared today - he repeats gyan that has been repeated time and again. Because India has to prevent infiltration the Indian side of the LoC is heavy with troops who can be targeted by snipers and BATs. Because India dos not send infiltrators into Pakistan the Pakistani defences are much more sparse and hidden
Here is the article
http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/commen ... 27382.html
Re: Small Arms Thread
For the purposes of testing, the US military defines lethality as the ability for a bullet to penetrate a board of 0.5 inches thickness pine wood (about 59 lb-ft of momentum). Of course this is an old standard and probably not current for scientific types, but is perfect for backyard testing. Now, by this definition a lot of cartridges can be considered lethal at very long range. E.g. even the .22LR can penetrate the above mentioned pinewood board at 500 meter ranges. The thing though is that people are not capable of reliably hitting a standard target with .22LR at this range, even with scope, bench-rest etc., because the bullet flight become erratic at this distance, as the bullet velocity enters the transonic region. Therefore, the military also defines something called an "effective lethal range" (i.e.) a distance where the bullet can still penetrate with "lethality" but the standard target can also be reliably hit. When the US military tested the 7.62x51 mm. cartridge a long time ago, the US Army calculated 800 meters as a "max. effective lethal range", while the US Marines considered 1000 meters as the "max. effective lethal range" for the same cartridge. Of course, people have made kills at longer ranges than this with the 7.62x51 mm. cartridge (e.g. 1200 - 1300 meters and more), but it is generally agreed that 800 meters is about max. range for reliable hits under all weather conditions for this cartridge. Beyond this range, the bullet starts to behave erratically and the probability to hit is much lower, even though it still carries enough momentum to be lethal well beyond this. Newer bullet designs have extended this lethal effective range a bit, but I'm quoting the official US military numbers measured from a while ago.Aditya_V wrote:A couple of questions regarding this weapon
1. What is the max range you can take out/ Kill an enemy with a 7.62*51mm sniper rifle. For sniper rifles why not go with non standard catridges wihich can take out enemy at 2KM etc.
2. Is there no record long range sniper kills along the LOC. Why dont we have sniper teams taking out the Pakis along the LOC?
Re: Small Arms Thread
I would start with this document. I have myself not read it in full but it details what is legal and what is illegal when it comes to the manufacture, sale and distribution of arms in Indianukavarapu wrote:Fellow SDREs.
Can someone please help me understand or walk me through process to get a license in India for design and manufacturing of small arms. Are there any pre-requisites apart from the obvious of Investment. Are there any consultants available to create a Business plan. I will appreciate if we do not discuss about economics. It should be more on the likes on R&D rather than actual manufacturing. I will be very happy if anyone of you can share your ideas and thoughts about such a venture.
Mods: Please move this to the appropriate thread if this is not the correct thread.
New Arms Act
Re: Small Arms Thread
I believe this was the insas version sold to Nepal.alexis wrote:What is the genesis and status of the weapon in this link?
http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/10.htm
Re: Small Arms Thread
:sigh:Furniture items are made of impact resistant Plastics and vapocured in leaf brown/ black colour. Its attractive looks inspire confidence.
OFB. Even its brochures are...
Re: Small Arms Thread
IIRC there are certain rules, such as cannot manufacture same caliber weapons as those used by police and military. Therefore, making weapons in 9x19 mm., 5.56x45 mm., 7.62x51 mm. etc are out. I think partial manufacturing is a whole different ball game though, because I know of a certain firm headquartered in Bengaluru, Kerala, that produces sub-assemblies (frames, triggers etc.) for some world-class firearms manufacturers (American, Austrian, Israeli etc.) which fit products of the above calibers.nukavarapu wrote:Thanksshiv wrote: I would start with this document. I have myself not read it in full but it details what is legal and what is illegal when it comes to the manufacture, sale and distribution of arms in India
New Arms Act
Re: Small Arms Thread
Heckler & Koch to stop doing deals with non-NATO countries
Looks like a German government issue rather than H&K that is forcing them to do this. Wonder what will happen to the Pakistani license to make the H&K G-36 rifles now.German arms manufacturer Heckler & Koch will no longer sign contracts to supply countries outside of NATO's influence because it has become too difficult to obtain government approval for such deals, news agency DPA reported on Monday.
The company, one of the world's best-known gunmakers, will in future only sell to countries that are democratic and free from corruption and that are members of NATO or NATO members' partners, DPA said, citing company sources.
It said this change in strategy would rule out deals with countries such as Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Brazil, India or even NATO member Turkey.
...
...
However, German restrictions on arms exports to the Middle East have weighed on its business, contributing to a 90 percent collapse in operating earnings last year.
The company sued the German government last year for failing to approve a deal to supply Saudi Arabia with parts needed to make its G36 assault rifle.
...
Re: Small Arms Thread
'will no longer sign contracts to supply countries outside of NATO's influence'
The pakis are under NATO influence aren't they ?
Or they are only a major non-NATO ally and outside the influence ?
The pakis are under NATO influence aren't they ?
Or they are only a major non-NATO ally and outside the influence ?
Re: Small Arms Thread
Add to that .223 Remington, .303, .308 Winchester, .38, .45 and rounds for all pistols ever used by indian police, military ranging from magnums to Webley.ArmenT wrote:IIRC there are certain rules, such as cannot manufacture same caliber weapons as those used by police and military. Therefore, making weapons in 9x19 mm., 5.56x45 mm., 7.62x51 mm. etc are out. I think partial manufacturing is a whole different ball game though, because I know of a certain firm headquartered in Bengaluru, Kerala, that produces sub-assemblies (frames, triggers etc.) for some world-class firearms manufacturers (American, Austrian, Israeli etc.) which fit products of the above calibers.nukavarapu wrote:
Thanks
However .30-06 is civilian legal.
Re: Small Arms Thread
ArmenT wrote:Heckler & Koch to stop doing deals with non-NATO countriesLooks like a German government issue rather than H&K that is forcing them to do this. Wonder what will happen to the Pakistani license to make the H&K G-36 rifles now.German arms manufacturer Heckler & Koch will no longer sign contracts to supply countries outside of NATO's influence because it has become too difficult to obtain government approval for such deals, news agency DPA reported on Monday.
The company, one of the world's best-known gunmakers, will in future only sell to countries that are democratic and free from corruption and that are members of NATO or NATO members' partners, DPA said, citing company sources.
It said this change in strategy would rule out deals with countries such as Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Brazil, India or even NATO member Turkey.
...
...
However, German restrictions on arms exports to the Middle East have weighed on its business, contributing to a 90 percent collapse in operating earnings last year.
The company sued the German government last year for failing to approve a deal to supply Saudi Arabia with parts needed to make its G36 assault rifle.
...
Good, hope our private companies at least start making copies of some of their designs.
Re: Small Arms Thread
ArmenT wrote:Heckler & Koch to stop doing deals with non-NATO countriesLooks like a German government issue rather than H&K that is forcing them to do this. Wonder what will happen to the Pakistani license to make the H&K G-36 rifles now.German arms manufacturer Heckler & Koch will no longer sign contracts to supply countries outside of NATO's influence because it has become too difficult to obtain government approval for such deals, news agency DPA reported on Monday.
The company, one of the world's best-known gunmakers, will in future only sell to countries that are democratic and free from corruption and that are members of NATO or NATO members' partners, DPA said, citing company sources.
It said this change in strategy would rule out deals with countries such as Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Brazil, India or even NATO member Turkey.
...
...
However, German restrictions on arms exports to the Middle East have weighed on its business, contributing to a 90 percent collapse in operating earnings last year.
The company sued the German government last year for failing to approve a deal to supply Saudi Arabia with parts needed to make its G36 assault rifle.
...
Pakistan never acquired G36 license. The G3 shouldn't be under protection of any kind of patent/ipr laws anymore as it is a fairly old design now.
Re: Small Arms Thread
True, I accidentally said G36 when I meant G3. I believe G3 is produced by POF under license from H&K. Note that the Germans are not only stopping dealing with non-NATO countries, they are also stopping dealings with a NATO country (Turkey) for philosophical reasons. That's why I'm wondering if they're going to stop dealing with another Ummah brother country as well (e.g. stop exporting or maintaining machinery, technical support etc.)Thakur_B wrote: Pakistan never acquired G36 license. The G3 shouldn't be under protection of any kind of patent/ipr laws anymore as it is a fairly old design now.