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Small Arms Thread

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Kakkaji
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Kakkaji » 13 Feb 2018 21:56

ramana wrote:Very positive decision

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... Y7p7I.html


Not clear if any of OFB/ DRDO designs have been selected. :-?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ramana » 13 Feb 2018 22:17

True. Most likely they will pick a model and get it MII in OFB and private sector.

I hope the cartridge is the 7.62x51mm that way IA goes back to original SLR cartridge.

OFB will make ammo for the sniper rifles.

To be honest I am tired of shoddy products from OFB that we find out in a shooting war like Kargil.

Our RayC told us the problems during that war and not too many paid attention.


Anyway does anyone know the rifling twist for INSAS for the 5.56x45 NATO cartridge?


its very crucial to understand its performance.

Small cartridges like 5.56 need faster spin for stability at ranges.

Stoner has 1:14 inch for the original rifle.
During development trials it was reduced to 1:12 to spin it more.
Eventually to ~ 1:9

So what is INSAS twist?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Shameek » 13 Feb 2018 22:23

From what I remember reading, it is 1:7.8. Will try to find the source. The barrel was ~18 inches long.

ramana
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ramana » 13 Feb 2018 22:29

That's fast spin rate. Good to know.
Actually about twice that for original 5.56x45 cartridge created by Stoner.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ramana » 13 Feb 2018 22:36

X-post as I could not post the HT article

HAs lots of details...

Vips wrote:Boost for armed forces as Defence Ministry approves acquisitions worth over Rs 15,000 crore.

The Indian Armed Forces received a shot in the arm on Tuesday as the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) accorded approval to capital acquisition proposals of the services valued at approximately Rs 15,935 crore.

Chaired by Defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman, the DAC approved the procurement of essential quantity of light machine guns for the three services through the Fast Track Procedure at an estimated cost of over Rs 1,819 crore. This procurement will meet the operational requirement of the troops deployed on the borders.

A concurrent proposal is being processed for the balance quantity to be procured under the ‘Buy and Make (Indian)’ categorisation.

In addition, the DAC cleared a proposal to procure 7.4 lakh assault rifles for the three services. These rifles will be ‘Made in India’ under the categorisation of ‘Buy and Make (Indian)’, through both Ordnance Factory Board and Private Industry at an estimated cost of Rs 12,280 crore.

In a bid to equip the soldiers on the border with modern and more effective equipment, the DAC has fast tracked procurement of the three main personal weapons, i.e., rifles, carbines and light machine guns in the last one month.

The DAC also approved procurement of 5,719 sniper rifles for the Indian Army and Indian Air Force at an estimated cost of Rs 982 crore. While these high precision weapons will be bought with ‘Buy Global’ categorisation, the ammunition for these will be initially procured and subsequently manufactured in India.

To enhance the anti-submarine warfare capabilities of Indian Naval Ships, the DAC accorded approval for the procurement of Advanced Torpedo Decoy Systems (ATDS) for the Indian Navy. The ‘Mareech’ system has been developed indigenously by Defence Research and Development Organisation and has successfully completed extensive trial evaluations.

The ‘Mareech’ systems will be produced by Bharat Electronics Limited in Bengaluru at an estimated cost of Rs 850 crore.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Rakesh » 13 Feb 2018 22:38

X-Post from the Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Armed Forces thread...

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 9071864832 --> An Indian Navy Marine Commando (MARCOs) somewhere in Kashmir

Image

ramana
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ramana » 13 Feb 2018 22:49

I don't know what kick these guys get by posting weapons carried by special forces in sensitive areas.

What's with that?
Want to alert enemy about who is armed with what?

nobody needs to know what weapons are carried by special forces and where they are posted.

Do you see SEALS or Royal Marine Commandos pictures and weapons?

And all have big, big names for handle!!!

Strategic Frontier, Shatrujeet whatnot.


All are big egos with small brains.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Rakesh » 13 Feb 2018 22:58

Ramana-ji: The MARCOS is called the Dadi Wali Fauj by the terrorists for a reason. They are truly feared by them. At that level, what weapons they carry is not the issue for the terrorists. The biggest problem is the commando himself. These guys are trained to kill without being discovered. Stealth combat without being seen. They are truly a class unto themselves. Para-SF is another feared unit.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ramana » 13 Feb 2018 23:01

While I agree, look at Honorary Captain Chaudhry who died at Sanjuwan.

Without weapons he confronted the terrorists and save his family when his quarters were attacked.

Terrorists should fear everyone of the IA.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby tsarkar » 13 Feb 2018 23:06

Rakesh wrote:An Indian Navy Marine Commando (MARCOs) somewhere in Kashmir

Tattoos are not allowed in Indian Armed Forces. Same goes for the filmy haircut.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Rakesh » 13 Feb 2018 23:15

Saar, I just posted the twitter link :)

Indranil
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Indranil » 14 Feb 2018 00:09

ramana wrote:While I agree, look at Honorary Captain Chaudhry who died at Sanjuwan.

Without weapons he confronted the terrorists and save his family when his quarters were attacked.

Terrorists should fear everyone of the IA.

There are so many tales of bravery. But, for me this one takes the cake really! An unprepared 50 year old unarmed man taking on armed men half his age and saving his family. Doesn't get much better than this.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Bharadwaj » 15 Feb 2018 14:02

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-K8_92CzbY

These new aks seem to have very little recoil. With our troops already in love with their predecessors for counter terror ops, it may make sense to do a tot with the bear and make these at ofb.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby nvishal » 15 Feb 2018 14:27

Is that a commando or an underwear model? lol

I doubt SF units like being photographed

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby jaysimha » 15 Feb 2018 16:42

Ministry of Defence13-February, 2018 17:45 IST

DAC Clears Proposal Worth Rs 15,935 Crore

The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), chaired by Raksha Mantri Smt Nirmala Sitharaman, met today and accorded approval to Capital Acquisition Proposals of the Services valued at approximately Rs 15,935 crore.

These included procurement of essential quantity of Light Machine Guns for the three Services through the Fast Track Procedure at an estimated cost of over Rs 1,819 crore. This procurement will meet the operational requirement of the troops deployed on the borders. A concurrent proposal is being processed for the balance quantity to be procured under the 'Buy and Make (Indian)' categorisation.

The DAC also accorded approval for procurement of 7.4 lakh Assault Rifles for the three Services. These Rifles will be ‘Made in India’ under the categorisation of 'Buy and Make (Indian)', through both Ordnance Factory Board and Private Industry at an estimated cost of Rs 12,280 crore.

In the last one month, to equip the soldiers on the border with modern and more effective equipment, the DAC has fast tracked procurement of the three main personal weapons, i.e., Rifles, Carbines and Light Machine Guns.

The DAC also approved procurement of 5,719 Sniper Rifles for the Indian Army and Indian Air Force at an estimated cost of Rs 982 crore. While these high precision weapons will be bought with ‘Buy Global’ categorisation, the ammunition for these will be initially procured and subsequently manufactured in India.

NAo/DK/Rajib


(Release ID :176543)

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Prasad » 15 Feb 2018 17:03

nvishal wrote:Is that a commando or an underwear model? lol

I doubt SF units like being photographed

They do, if you ask them nicely :)

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Manish_P » 15 Feb 2018 20:37

Bharadwaj wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-K8_92CzbY

These new aks seem to have very little recoil. With our troops already in love with their predecessors for counter terror ops, it may make sense to do a tot with the bear and make these at ofb.


They do hold a lot of promise. Need to see how the hold up in actual sustained use by troops. More the moving parts (balanced recoil system), dicier it gets (if not machined properly). But they have been testing and fine tuning it for years, so looks like any issues (if any) would have been ironed out and it may well be good for us to get these.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Bart S » 15 Feb 2018 21:22

Manish_P wrote:
Bharadwaj wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-K8_92CzbY

These new aks seem to have very little recoil. With our troops already in love with their predecessors for counter terror ops, it may make sense to do a tot with the bear and make these at ofb.


They do hold a lot of promise. Need to see how the hold up in actual sustained use by troops. More the moving parts (balanced recoil system), dicier it gets (if not machined properly). But they have been testing and fine tuning it for years, so looks like any issues (if any) would have been ironed out and it may well be good for us to get these.


A look at the Kalashnikov factories shows that their manufacturing philosophy has changed from the 50s when the emphasis was to stamp out millions of these at low cost, and their production floor looks fully automated and high-tech, geared for precision manufacturing.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby SaiK » 16 Feb 2018 10:28

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ne ... 754141.ece
Armament R&D Establishment working on new assault rifle


INSAS replacement

During the same time, in February 2016, the Alteration Committee of the defence ministry approved modifications in the existing Indian Small Arms System (INSAS) 1B rifle. Sources indicated the INSAS will be replaced with deadlier assault rifles of higher caliber 7.62x51 mm.

The assault rifles will be of 7.62 mm calibre, while the carbines will be of 5.56 mm calibre. The request for information (RFI) for the new assault rifle with specification 7.62x51mm has also been issued Sources added that acquisition of new artillery guns, “through five procurement cases that also involve indigenous production,” has also been approved.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby tsarkar » 16 Feb 2018 10:38

Rakesh wrote:Saar, I just posted the twitter link :)

Rakesh, that looks like a dude visiting his brother/friend in a forward area and putting on his gear to look cool. The haircut is against regulations and it's doubtful stylists are available in forward areas to give that haircut. Tattoos too are against regulations.

Allowing relatives access to equipment is against regulations too but people get bored/lonely so some leeway is given. Mostly to "help" brother/friends impress chicks.

Alternately it may be a "know your army" event and this chap put on equipment on display. There is a person called Kunal Biswas who does that regularly at shows and whose photos are posted here and elsewhere on the internet.

The chap in the photo is definitely not MARCOS.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Manish_P » 16 Feb 2018 11:59

Bart S wrote:
Manish_P wrote:
They do hold a lot of promise. Need to see how the hold up in actual sustained use by troops. More the moving parts (balanced recoil system), dicier it gets (if not machined properly). But they have been testing and fine tuning it for years, so looks like any issues (if any) would have been ironed out and it may well be good for us to get these.


A look at the Kalashnikov factories shows that their manufacturing philosophy has changed from the 50s when the emphasis was to stamp out millions of these at low cost, and their production floor looks fully automated and high-tech, geared for precision manufacturing.


I don't doubt that.. i was referring to the ruggedness, reliability and ease of maintenance of the system on the field, in varied conditions, with extended rough usage, which the older gen excelled at.


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