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Small Arms Thread

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby shiv » 01 Nov 2016 06:37

Karan M wrote:doc, trust me i would not make a gratuitous ref yo any indian agency, but OFB is a disaster. .

Karan you are preaching to the converted but you have missed the point. Everyone on BRF understands that OFB has serious issues of quality, inefficiency and sloth

But it is a very Indian need to press the point home by comparing our own people and saying that murderous enemies of ours are better than our own people. This is simply a rhetorical emphasis to make the point to show how contemptuous one feels about one's own people. That is completely unnecessary. We (Indians) do this a lot and do not seem to have the required sense self dignity to draw a line at criticism of our people and not act like we would rather admire and praise our enemies to express how infernally low we feel our own entities are. I have never objected to criticism of OFB, but I do object to vilifying our people to that extent using analogies. We really cannot keep on shaming our own people expecting that they will then want to change simply to get praise from us who sit pompously in judgement over them.


But we are all so clever we think that enough vicious shaming will make the mangy OFB and other PSU dogs work better and at least lift themselves up to the superior level of our enemies, while we judge and pass comments about them. That tells me something about our attitudes
Last edited by shiv on 01 Nov 2016 06:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby shiv » 01 Nov 2016 06:42

malushahi wrote:
shiv wrote:A pathetic excuse for speaking like an outside third party gora sahib comparing Pakistan and India. I wanted to point out how self proclaimed patriots have so much contempt that they are not satisfied with criticism but need to rub it in with a comparison with Pakistan which I think is shameful. Topping that by the pompous claim that contemptuous patriotism saved MiG 21s is delusional.

No need for gratuitous references to my coronaries - there is every chance that I have kept them clear for decades longer than you have.


nice try hakim, trying to press all the red buttons.

Good for you if your buttons are not pressed. But the real point is not pressing your buttons, but getting others, of whom there are hundreds, to read what I feel which is more important than any attempt to provoke you or get you to change , or allowing your attempts to wriggle away by diversions from the original subject to stop me. Will not let your contempt pass without pointing out that there are alternate ways of being critical without derision.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Gyan » 01 Nov 2016 10:46

Cross post

I am slowly going through few hundred pages of CAG reports on OFB. My observations:-

Army wants 600 FN GPMGs but OFB produces 125 per annum. Army wants 2500 Carl Gustafs OFB produces 600 Per annum. OFB Producing NIL HMGs and AGLs against demand of 250 per annum. Dhanush not been ordered by Army till May 2015 but in any case OFB cannot manufacture it as even the tenders for building for the manufacturing plants not issued in last 5 years. OFB produces NIL sniper rifles and NIL Ghatak rifles.

OFB Cannot produce 40mm ammo for UBGL, sniper ammo, tank machine gun rounds, tank FSAPDS rounds, AK rounds etc.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 01 Nov 2016 21:31

Gyan,

Good exercise...anything on quality, rejection numbers, fatalities due to faulty ammo ?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Karan M » 01 Nov 2016 21:50

doc, the reference to darra was not made out of need to put down OFB as being equal to TSP land. all saidvand done, metallurgy and overall performance of INSAS will be miles ahead of any shed knock off as you would note. issue is more that when fit and finish is achieved by small scale hole in wall gunsmiths but ofb doesnt care, its galling. fortunately ofb is not reflective of psus too. we have seen bdl, hal made items. they are miles ahead of ofb. ofbs issue is that of a unionized, who cares workforce plus old eqpt, chalta hain management (refer to reports of ofb honchos on take in upa era)..all creating this mess. imho.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Gyan » 01 Nov 2016 22:08

Huge amount of such details except on fatalities. Example 100% HMG production rejected. 22-60% Carl Gustafs production rejected inspite of the fact that all major components 75% overall imported. Anyway, you will need to read them, too extensive to post.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 02 Nov 2016 02:21

Karan M wrote:doc, the reference to darra was not made out of need to put down OFB as being equal to TSP land. all saidvand done, metallurgy and overall performance of INSAS will be miles ahead of any shed knock off as you would note. issue is more that when fit and finish is achieved by small scale hole in wall gunsmiths but ofb doesnt care, its galling. fortunately ofb is not reflective of psus too. we have seen bdl, hal made items. they are miles ahead of ofb. ofbs issue is that of a unionized, who cares workforce plus old eqpt, chalta hain management (refer to reports of ofb honchos on take in upa era)..all creating this mess. imho.


The problem is the OFB is a 100 pct sarkari organisation with its own officer cadres as well IOFS. Another all India service known as IAS (Ordnance factories). The bird itself is run by a IAS officer at top. And HQ is Calcutta steeednin old unionism and the worst of public sector ethos.

This can be changed by the right leadership. One example is Damodar Valley Coproration. It was a messa and close to bankruptcy when Gen Bharat took over as CMD. He is Victoria Cross and tipped to be Army Chief after Manekshaw was not made chief by Indira Ghandhi. Sam Bahadur said this of him 'you were not allowed to become chief because they didn't want two strong chiefs in a row

He turned Damodar Valley corporation around. One story is how he used to talk to the lowest staff who had never had a senior gazetted officer talk to them forget a CMD. And he would enquire after their family and build a personal connection. That got him loyalty and they were willing to for him what they never did for others.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 02 Nov 2016 02:26

One good way of seeing how inefficient and corrupt an organisation is to see the dowry market in UP and Bihar or even in the Reddy community I am told. Check the going rate for different professions - IAS, IPS, MBAs, doctors etc. How difficult or easy it is to get a bride is also a very good indication. IOFS officers are not doing too badly in this market Im told. Amongst the govt professions DRDO and Fauj is right at the bottom. PSUs come next. IOFS after that and then IAS IPS. IRS and Customs and Crntral Excise do well too. One very interning one is PJS or provincial judicial service. close to the top. PWD, Irrigation is below IAS IPS.

Fascinating to see market economics and the wisdom of the crowd in action.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Gyan » 02 Nov 2016 10:49

Management failure in setting up new OFB plants or ordering capital equipment cannot be explained by Unionisation. Nor can MOD failure to allocate budgets for modernisation, upgradation, new manufacturing lines etc is result of unionisation. The poor receiver cover of INSAS can be due to absense of capital equipment (heavy press?) to make a single piece receiver cover. The continued delay and failure of Bihar howitzer ammo project, Nalanda is classic case of corruption, red tape and incompetence rolled into Babudom.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 03 Nov 2016 00:38

Oh absolutely. I was saying that leadership can change things even in a unionised PSU. It's all a question of management and leadership and organisation structure. You have obviously studied these issues in depth. What would your solution be ?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 03 Nov 2016 00:40

I guess you are saying that more budgets also matter ? but then you yourself posted that tenders have not been issued and allocations have not been used. Surely that is a process and management issue.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Gyan » 03 Nov 2016 09:51

I am saying that management is a bigger problem then labour unionisation. Nobody questions incompetence of Babus, IAS lobby etc. For instance, big western companies also have very very heavy unionisation.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 03 Nov 2016 12:24

Sure, I agree. Btw thanks for the effort on the analysis - very useful.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby jamwal » 03 Nov 2016 18:17

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... ernization
Modi's Looking to Buy the Indian Army 185,000 Deadly Assault Rifles



India’s armed forces have embarked on a shopping spree for modern assault rifles, body armor and helmets, providing a potential boost to global arms suppliers.
The 1.3 million-strong military is abandoning its two decade-old Indian made rifles and seeking to outfit its infantry with more up-to-date equipment, scouting for a new model on the global market for 185,000 assault rifles. The Ministry of Defence also needs to buy hundreds of thousands of helmets and tens of thousands of bullet proof vests.
The moves are part of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s $250 billion push to modernize India’s armed forces, as infantry continue to face the brunt of deadly attacks in disputed border areas such as Kashmir and the north-east.
Plans to buy new equipment from overseas, however, have been held back by bureaucratic delays and the military’s desire to balance the needs of troops against efforts to have equipment built domestically under Modi’s "Make in India" program, a key plank in his drive to boost local manufacturing.
"It’s encouraging that they’re going ahead with this, but it’s discouraging that it’s not made under ‘Make in India,’ " said Anit Mukherjee, a former major in the Indian Army and assistant professor at Singapore’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies. "The fact that it took 10 years for Indians to go ahead and say, ‘we’re importing’ means the bureaucracy is still holding back modernization of the armed

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 22 Nov 2016 15:03

From Kunal Biswas, DFI
Kunal Biswas wrote:Image
At first glance, The rifle look solid, The requirement given by user to put in wood stock, It has a nice bipod and p-rail for placing a 10X optics, It got adjustable cheek raiser and rubber pad at butt-stock, Its bolt action rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm, It comes with its own muzzle breaker and suppressor, The design is finished and in user trails but, The design may change and specs in time to come based on user feedback.


Image
The rifle chambered for 7.62x51mm NATO rounds, It feature a 8cm long P-rail for placing its optical scope of 10x magnification for sniping role, Due to p-rail other optics can as well fit on to it, The rifle requirement set out in late 2015 by Army and paramilitary.


Image
The rifle feature a adjustable cheek raiser and a rubber pad at its butt-stock so does sling attachment, The stock is made out of wood at request of users, The requirement is for a heavy rifle which can absorb recoil unlike those light designs made of fiber in new generation sniper rifles. The rifle yet to see many improvement over this original design in time.


It's a good looking design from OFB. The finish looks remarkably good.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Nov 2016 15:23

Bolt action rifle, so a modernized 303?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 22 Nov 2016 16:57

^^ My problem is with the wooden Frame of the Rifle. Most Gunsmiths the world over have moved away from Wood for Sniper rifles.

Wood changes due to heat/cold/humidity/rain and screws up the zero of the rifle and its shooting ability over a period of time. Dont really know why the "user" asked or a wooden frame in this day and age.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby tsarkar » 22 Nov 2016 17:41

Not sure if posted or discussed here. Munger is manufacturing quality AK-47, 9 mm carbines and Beretta pistols.

Lot of ex-Army and OF employees, so AK-47 and carbines are no surprises. What is surprising is the Beretta copies, since its uncommon in India where we use Browning pistols.

More than the weapons, the supply of ammunition is disturbing. I've always wondered how Naxals get their ammunition, especially for robbed SLRs and INSAS.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ille ... 07838.html

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ak-4 ... 65752.html

http://www.news18.com/news/india/made-i ... 93172.html

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 22 Nov 2016 19:32

Aditya_V wrote:Bolt action rifle, so a modernized 303?


Doesn't seem related to SMLE family.

rkhanna wrote:^^ My problem is with the wooden Frame of the Rifle. Most Gunsmiths the world over have moved away from Wood for Sniper rifles.

Wood changes due to heat/cold/humidity/rain and screws up the zero of the rifle and its shooting ability over a period of time. Dont really know why the "user" asked or a wooden frame in this day and age.


Free floating barrel and good bedding should not create that much problems with wood stock.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby shiv » 22 Nov 2016 20:01

Aditya_V wrote:Bolt action rifle, so a modernized 303?

I thought sniper rifles are always bolt action because there is no need for the extra complexity (and noise) of a chamber being loaded after the previous shot. I also suspect (without proof) that reciprocal action of automatic bolt slamming back would set up barrel vibrations that cannot be good for accuracy - at least at longer distances. Even lousy rifles can be accurate at short range simply because a high muzzle velocity causes a straight path.

Some more speculation now. My shooting is 99% air rifle. I have both synthetic stock and wooden stock. The synthetic stock which is hollow acts like an echo chamber and causes a loud "Tthokk" - less so in the wooden stock rifles. I just wonder if the decibel level of a synthetic stock may be higher? Could not find info on Googal.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Paul » 22 Nov 2016 20:37

Americans like their sniper rifles to be bolt action and tend to sneer at their Roosi counterparts who have auto rifles like SVD Dragunov forgetting Russia has produced the sniper since WWII.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 23 Nov 2016 17:30

"Americans like their sniper rifles to be bolt action and tend to sneer at their Roosi counterparts who have auto rifles like SVD Dragunov forgetting Russia has produced the sniper since WWII."

Well its a trade off over Accuracy and Range and Second Shot Capability I believe.

Secondly The Soviet doctrine called for Squad Level designated marksmen. For a conscript army it needed to be cheap and mass produced. A DM was essentially the best shot in the squad/platoon achieving 90% hits at 200m.

This is something (DM and Sniper) that the American doctrine makes a distinct difference between a DM and a Sniper in terms of training and usage. The SVD falls in the DMR category.

BTW Russian Spetz Sniper teams use SV-98 Bolt action sniper rile. SVD is relegated to DMR roles.

Anyways, I remember reading somewhere that the The SVD has tighter barrel twists to fire Armour piercing incendiary rounds which in-turn greatly decreases accuracy of the weapon.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 23 Nov 2016 17:33

"Free floating barrel and good bedding should not create that much problems with wood stock.
"

Well Dont really know what you mean. (over my head lol) but the issue regarding wooden furniture was explained to me by somebody I know personally who was (at the time) a USMC Marksmanship coach.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Manish_P » 23 Nov 2016 17:49

And Americans do have their own semi-automatics DMRs - Knights SR-25 (with slight differences and different designations for the Army and Marines), the FN SCAR - SSR (Sniper Support Rifle) and a few more (like the Anti material Barrett M82 A1)

rkhanna wrote:"Americans like their sniper rifles to be bolt action and tend to sneer at their Roosi counterparts who have auto rifles like SVD Dragunov forgetting Russia has produced the sniper since WWII."

Well its a trade off over Accuracy and Range and Second Shot Capability I believe.

Secondly The Soviet doctrine called for Squad Level designated marksmen. For a conscript army it needed to be cheap and mass produced. A DM was essentially the best shot in the squad/platoon achieving 90% hits at 200m.

This is something (DM and Sniper) that the American doctrine makes a distinct difference between a DM and a Sniper in terms of training and usage. The SVD falls in the DMR category.

BTW Russian Spetz Sniper teams use SV-98 Bolt action sniper rile. SVD is relegated to DMR roles.

Anyways, I remember reading somewhere that the The SVD has tighter barrel twists to fire Armour piercing incendiary rounds which in-turn greatly decreases accuracy of the weapon.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby shiv » 23 Nov 2016 19:55

rkhanna wrote:Anyways, I remember reading somewhere that the The SVD has tighter barrel twists to fire Armour piercing incendiary rounds which in-turn greatly decreases accuracy of the weapon.

This is an odd statement. I cannot think why tighter barrel twists should decrease accuracy. At most it might decrease range and even that is unlikely IMO

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ArmenT » 24 Nov 2016 00:45

Thakur_B wrote:From Kunal Biswas, DFI
Kunal Biswas wrote:At first glance, The rifle look solid, The requirement given by user to put in wood stock, It has a nice bipod and p-rail for placing a 10X optics, It got adjustable cheek raiser and rubber pad at butt-stock, Its bolt action rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm, It comes with its own muzzle breaker and suppressor,
Image


Allow me to play the devil's advocate here. Couple of things stand out in the report. First, I can't believe the end-user of a military sniper rifle asked for a wood stock! Wood stocks are subject to warping, cracking (especially in extreme cold and heat) and are temperature-sensitive. Sure you can glass bed a stock, but when the stock starts to warp, glass bedding won't save it. Free floating the barrel may also have the same issues unless you have very wide gaps between the barrel and the stock. Also wondering why they want wood furniture for something which is likely to be camouflaged. Not to mention the hassle of oiling the wood stock in the field periodically (and no, gun oil doesn't work on wood stocks, you want a different oil for that (linseed perhaps?)).

The rubber pad appears glued on to the end of the buttstock (and not very well either). You'd think that it would be adjustable to accommodate users of different dimensions. Also, I wonder how well it would hold up in snowy weather/desert conditions without cracking.

And I'm not too sold about that so-called "pistol grip" behind the trigger either. It seems to just get in the way without being useful as a grip. What's with the attempt at applying decorative cross-hatching in a military rifle?? There's no purpose for it at all. The cross-hatching looks like it was done freehand by a bored schoolboy using a compass from a Camlin geometry box. Also, the stock looks somewhat overly heavy in some parts and less in others (e.g.) look at the trigger guard. This must be the first rifle I've seen where the trigger guard is actually part of the stock itself. They could reduce weight quite a bit by getting rid of that excess stock material.

I wonder if the end-user actually asked for this stuff or is that what the OFB guys claim as their excuse ("not our fault, end user asked for this as a feature onlee")

Aditya_V wrote:Bolt action rifle, so a modernized 303?

As far as bolt-actions are concerned, there are 3 major types around:
1. Enfield action (cocks on bolt closing)
2. Mauser action (cocks on bolt opening)
3. Mosin Nagant action
Needless to say, all three designs are from the late 19th/early 20th century, but there's very little that can be improved upon them. I'm guessing the rifle has the Enfield action, simply because OFB has previous experience manufacturing this type (the Ishapore 2A1 for instance, which was also 7.62x51 mm. incidentally).

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Gyan » 24 Nov 2016 08:56

Western writers don't even considered SVD as a sniper rifle but only a DMR but our Soviet/
RUssian friends have found it to be adequate for almost 4 decades .

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ArmenT » 24 Nov 2016 10:09

Gyan wrote:Western writers don't even considered SVD as a sniper rifle but only a DMR but our Soviet/
RUssian friends have found it to be adequate for almost 4 decades .

Russians don't consider it a sniper rifle either, they have always treated it as a designated marksman rifle and it was introduced for their platoons initially as a squad support weapon (the initial Russian name for it didn't even mention the name "Sniper").

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 24 Nov 2016 11:06

A couple of questions regarding this weapon

1. What is the max range you can take out/ Kill an enemy with a 7.62*51mm sniper rifle. For sniper rifles why not go with non standard catridges wihich can take out enemy at 2KM etc.

2. Is there no record long range sniper kills along the LOC. Why dont we have sniper teams taking out the Pakis along the LOC?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby alexis » 24 Nov 2016 18:09

What is the genesis and status of the weapon in this link?
http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/10.htm

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby shiv » 24 Nov 2016 19:04

Aditya_V wrote:A couple of questions regarding this weapon

1. What is the max range you can take out/ Kill an enemy with a 7.62*51mm sniper rifle. For sniper rifles why not go with non standard catridges wihich can take out enemy at 2KM etc.

2. Is there no record long range sniper kills along the LOC. Why dont we have sniper teams taking out the Pakis along the LOC?

I can only speculate. 2 km kills mean 2 km clear line of sight. Hilly/mountainous/forested terrain will not allow this. I think any sniper rifle should be able to to 1 -1.2 km It is not the killing power of the bullet but the accuracy that would be significant.

I don't think India advertises sniper kills which I think must be occurring. That said if you read an article by Gen Ata Hasnain that appeared today - he repeats gyan that has been repeated time and again. Because India has to prevent infiltration the Indian side of the LoC is heavy with troops who can be targeted by snipers and BATs. Because India dos not send infiltrators into Pakistan the Pakistani defences are much more sparse and hidden

Here is the article
http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/commen ... 27382.html

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ArmenT » 24 Nov 2016 22:42

Aditya_V wrote:A couple of questions regarding this weapon

1. What is the max range you can take out/ Kill an enemy with a 7.62*51mm sniper rifle. For sniper rifles why not go with non standard catridges wihich can take out enemy at 2KM etc.

2. Is there no record long range sniper kills along the LOC. Why dont we have sniper teams taking out the Pakis along the LOC?

For the purposes of testing, the US military defines lethality as the ability for a bullet to penetrate a board of 0.5 inches thickness pine wood (about 59 lb-ft of momentum). Of course this is an old standard and probably not current for scientific types, but is perfect for backyard testing. Now, by this definition a lot of cartridges can be considered lethal at very long range. E.g. even the .22LR can penetrate the above mentioned pinewood board at 500 meter ranges. The thing though is that people are not capable of reliably hitting a standard target with .22LR at this range, even with scope, bench-rest etc., because the bullet flight become erratic at this distance, as the bullet velocity enters the transonic region. Therefore, the military also defines something called an "effective lethal range" (i.e.) a distance where the bullet can still penetrate with "lethality" but the standard target can also be reliably hit. When the US military tested the 7.62x51 mm. cartridge a long time ago, the US Army calculated 800 meters as a "max. effective lethal range", while the US Marines considered 1000 meters as the "max. effective lethal range" for the same cartridge. Of course, people have made kills at longer ranges than this with the 7.62x51 mm. cartridge (e.g. 1200 - 1300 meters and more), but it is generally agreed that 800 meters is about max. range for reliable hits under all weather conditions for this cartridge. Beyond this range, the bullet starts to behave erratically and the probability to hit is much lower, even though it still carries enough momentum to be lethal well beyond this. Newer bullet designs have extended this lethal effective range a bit, but I'm quoting the official US military numbers measured from a while ago.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby nukavarapu » 01 Dec 2016 05:33

Fellow SDREs.

Can someone please help me understand or walk me through process to get a license in India for design and manufacturing of small arms. Are there any pre-requisites apart from the obvious of Investment. Are there any consultants available to create a Business plan. I will appreciate if we do not discuss about economics. It should be more on the likes on R&D rather than actual manufacturing. I will be very happy if anyone of you can share your ideas and thoughts about such a venture.

Mods: Please move this to the appropriate thread if this is not the correct thread.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby shiv » 01 Dec 2016 06:49

nukavarapu wrote:Fellow SDREs.

Can someone please help me understand or walk me through process to get a license in India for design and manufacturing of small arms. Are there any pre-requisites apart from the obvious of Investment. Are there any consultants available to create a Business plan. I will appreciate if we do not discuss about economics. It should be more on the likes on R&D rather than actual manufacturing. I will be very happy if anyone of you can share your ideas and thoughts about such a venture.

Mods: Please move this to the appropriate thread if this is not the correct thread.

I would start with this document. I have myself not read it in full but it details what is legal and what is illegal when it comes to the manufacture, sale and distribution of arms in India

New Arms Act

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 01 Dec 2016 07:27

alexis wrote:What is the genesis and status of the weapon in this link?
http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/10.htm


I believe this was the insas version sold to Nepal.

nukavarapu
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby nukavarapu » 01 Dec 2016 08:41

shiv wrote:I would start with this document. I have myself not read it in full but it details what is legal and what is illegal when it comes to the manufacture, sale and distribution of arms in India

New Arms Act


Thanks

Viv S
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Viv S » 02 Dec 2016 00:41

alexis wrote:http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/10.htm

Furniture items are made of impact resistant Plastics and vapocured in leaf brown/ black colour. Its attractive looks inspire confidence.

:sigh:

OFB. Even its brochures are... :roll:

ArmenT
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ArmenT » 02 Dec 2016 00:49

nukavarapu wrote:
shiv wrote:I would start with this document. I have myself not read it in full but it details what is legal and what is illegal when it comes to the manufacture, sale and distribution of arms in India

New Arms Act


Thanks

IIRC there are certain rules, such as cannot manufacture same caliber weapons as those used by police and military. Therefore, making weapons in 9x19 mm., 5.56x45 mm., 7.62x51 mm. etc are out. I think partial manufacturing is a whole different ball game though, because I know of a certain firm headquartered in Bengaluru, Kerala, that produces sub-assemblies (frames, triggers etc.) for some world-class firearms manufacturers (American, Austrian, Israeli etc.) which fit products of the above calibers.

nukavarapu
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby nukavarapu » 02 Dec 2016 01:29

ArmenT wrote:
nukavarapu wrote:
Thanks

IIRC there are certain rules, such as cannot manufacture same caliber weapons as those used by police and military. Therefore, making weapons in 9x19 mm., 5.56x45 mm., 7.62x51 mm. etc are out. I think partial manufacturing is a whole different ball game though, because I know of a certain firm headquartered in Bengaluru, Kerala, that produces sub-assemblies (frames, triggers etc.) for some world-class firearms manufacturers (American, Austrian, Israeli etc.) which fit products of the above calibers.


Armen garu is it even haram to research, design and build prototype of a carbine or assault rifle. Give it to security agencies for trials, and if by gods grace if it does get selected then manufacture it wholly or with some sharing agreement with OFB.

I know it's very complex but can something like this be really attempted?

nukavarapu
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby nukavarapu » 02 Dec 2016 01:39

Just to add the small brother recently got the small arms manufacturing license. Or was it the big brother. That's exactly what triggered that if they can manufacture then any individual should be given the chance to do so, provided they fulfill the minimum requirements. Greasing hands might still be implied.


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