Small Arms Thread

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Bharadwaj » 07 Oct 2008 14:27

The tender for carbines is a little strange-the 200m accuracy specs seem to match the zittara and one would think it would be a no brainer. Why issue a tender?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ssmitra » 09 Oct 2008 02:17

A central Industrial Security Force (CISF) personnel stands guard infront of the rocket at the Vehicle Assembly Building of the India's first unmanned mission to the Moon Chandrayaan-1 in Sriharikota, India, 07 October 2008.


Image

Folding Butt INSAS in service

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby tejas » 09 Oct 2008 06:54

Why is the INSAS barrel so ungodly long ? I would think in close quarter fighting that could be a problem. The issue seems to be rectified with the Excalibur though I have yet to see that rifle in use other than at arms expos.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby vavinash » 09 Oct 2008 07:48

Excaliber is out kalantak would be the new model.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby sarabpal.s » 09 Oct 2008 10:33

Well folding butt insas is quit common sight in CISF who providing security to delhi metro.
Another thing is that it is just a show off because it is qumbersome in this confined space of Delhi metro. they need small gun like uzi pr MP5 gun or our own zitara :)

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ArmenT » 09 Oct 2008 11:13

tejas wrote:Why is the INSAS barrel so ungodly long ? I would think in close quarter fighting that could be a problem. The issue seems to be rectified with the Excalibur though I have yet to see that rifle in use other than at arms expos.

INSAS isn't as long as the previous rifle that the Indian Army used (i.e.) the Ishapore 1A SLR (which was based on FN-FAL). Heck, it is shorter than the M16, HK G36 and Galil as well.

By the way, quite a few sources on the web refer to Excalibur as an advanced INSAS carbine. Is this true or not? If true, then this would explain why the barrel is shorter than the standard rifle (by definition of a carbine).

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ssmitra » 10 Oct 2008 01:39

ArmenT wrote:
tejas wrote:Why is the INSAS barrel so ungodly long ? I would think in close quarter fighting that could be a problem. The issue seems to be rectified with the Excalibur though I have yet to see that rifle in use other than at arms expos.

INSAS isn't as long as the previous rifle that the Indian Army used (i.e.) the Ishapore 1A SLR (which was based on FN-FAL). Heck, it is shorter than the M16, HK G36 and Galil as well.


True except you won't find a whole lot of police on "regular" duty with M16, G36 and Galil
but no complaints it is a fine rifle and a lot lighter than the FAL



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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 13 Oct 2008 01:12

Pakistans new locally developed Small Arms

pk-8 rifle 5.56N

Image

Pk-8 in the mans hands, pk-7 in foreground
(pk-8 5.56N pk-7 7.62x39mm)
Image

Sniper Rifle
http://www.ispr.gov.pk/images/Big%20Images/DSC_0037.JPG


The PK series of Weapons seem very close to the HK-33.. Any ToT?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rkhanna » 14 Oct 2008 02:56

Elephant Gun for Snipers

Elephant Gun For Snipers
October 13, 2008: Yet another heavy sniper rifle is generating a lot of buzz. This one is the CheyTac LRRS (Long Range Rifle System). It looks like a .50 caliber (12.7mm) rifle, but is actually .408 (10.3mm). The .408 round resembles a scaled down .50 caliber, and this bullet is mainly for anti-personnel use (rather than the oft-quoted, but little used, "anti-material" use of the .50 caliber sniper rifles.) The .408 was developed in 2001, and is actually based on the older . 505 Gibbs and the .400 Taylor Magnum elephant guns.

The .408 bullet is a new streamlined design that leaves it with more energy (at ranges beyond 700 meters) than a .50 caliber bullet. The .408 is accurate to 2200 meters, about the same as the .50 caliber. The CheyTac rifle weighs 24 pounds, is 55 inches long has a 30 inch barrel and a five round magazine. The equivalent 12.7mm rifles weigh about 30 pounds.

The CheyTac is competing with the new 8.6mm (.338 Lapua Magnum) round, which is fired from a 15 pound rifle out to about 1500 meters. Both the CheyTac and Lapua Magnum are marketed mainly to police departments. But British Army has adopted the Lapua Magnum as its main sniper rifle. Current users of the CheyTac include special operations forces in Poland, Turkey and the Czech Republic.

CheyTac also recently introduced a tactical computer (commercial PDA with CheyTac ballistic software), that works with the Kestrel 4000 wind/temperature/atmospheric pressure sensors, linked to the PDA. This system provides that extra bit of data needed to hit man sized targets at 2,000 meters or more. The CheyTac works with most electronic and non-electronic scopes.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap ... 81013.aspx



Image

Image
.408 CheyTac cartridge (middle) compared to .50BMG (left) and .338Lapua (right)

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 24 Nov 2008 14:38

Came accross an Intresting article in the Daily telegraph. Shouldnt we import a few of these and start developing our own sniper locator

Soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan to get life saving anti-sniper device


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... evice.html
Last edited by Rahul M on 24 Nov 2008 15:08, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edited link format. no need to to use the "url" code, it screws up the "automatically parse URLs" option AND messes up the page format.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby sunny_s » 24 Nov 2008 15:15

Last edited by Gerard on 25 Nov 2008 02:11, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: images too large for inline

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby sunny_s » 24 Nov 2008 15:32

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/609/image173vt3.jpg

compare the two..the kalantak has a shoter barrel as compared to insas.this will be affecting the max and effective firing range of the rifle..
Last edited by Gerard on 25 Nov 2008 02:09, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: images are too large for inline

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby sarabpal.s » 24 Nov 2008 16:02

:arrow: Not kalantak

Only difference is butt one is fixed another is folding butt

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby sunny_s » 24 Nov 2008 17:16

http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 009qn1.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/4408 ... 009qn1.jpg
http://g.imageshack.us/img180/16022008009qn1.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/16022008009qn1.jpg

yup the rifle above is in this pic is kalantak..the rifle has a folding butt..but i dntknw if their is ne big difference btw the 2 shwn in the pic exept fr the hand grip area
Last edited by Gerard on 25 Nov 2008 02:10, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: images too large for inline

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Sanjay » 30 Nov 2008 04:28

Can anyone post and enlarge the photos from the NSG museum ? They show an ecclectic variety of weapons.

http://nsg.gov.in/june08/trainingcentremuseum.htm

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby ArmenT » 30 Nov 2008 04:35

Sanjay wrote:Can anyone post and enlarge the photos from the NSG museum ? They show an ecclectic variety of weapons.

http://nsg.gov.in/june08/trainingcentremuseum.htm


They already have the large versions right there. A big clue would have been to notice how long the images take to download vs. the rest of the page. If you're using firefox, all you have to do is right click on the image and select "View Image" in the menu that pops up and you'll have the larger version. In IE, you might have to do "Save Picture As..." because IE doesn't seem to want to have the Show Pictures enabled. Alternatively in IE, click on the picture and hold down the mouse and drag it to the URL bar of your IE browser. You should then see the larger picture.

Those pictures are keepers by the way. Someone should archive them in case they disappear.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Sanjay » 30 Nov 2008 04:38

Can anyone ID all of them ?

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby ArmenT » 30 Nov 2008 04:58

Admins, can you please split Sanjay's two posts above and my reply to him and move them to the Small Arms Thread, as they don't have much scope in this particular thread.

Sanjay: I'll ID as many as I can, once that is done. I don't want to pollute this thread any more.

Done.
A request, if people can't ID/ are hopelessly clueless about the make please don't post those in the MARCOS/NSG thread.
Rahul.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ArmenT » 30 Nov 2008 05:57

Thanks for the thread split Rahul.

I'll link the images as links rather than inline the images, as they're rather large:
http://nsg.gov.in/june08/museum/P1130754.JPG

Left: American-180. This is quite a find as it isn't that common. It is a 22 caliber weapon and comes with a drum magazine on top which can hold anywhere between 165-275 rounds (depending on drum model). This is a 1970s weapon which was sold to prisons for riot control. It has an incredible rate of fire (1200 rounds per min)

Middle: Heckler & Koch G3.

Right Top: Steyr AUG

Right Bottom: Heckler & Koch PSG-1 (or its militarized version MSG-90)

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Sanjay » 30 Nov 2008 06:18

Armen, I think you're wrong on two H&K types. One seems to be a G-41 and the other an H&K HK21 or an HK-11. India had purchased an evaluation batch of G-41s back in the 1980s and some did see service in Sri Lanka with the paracommandos.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Kersi D » 01 Dec 2008 20:54

Please educate ignorants like me. What is the difference between the

Rifle / sub machine gun / machine gun / SLR / carbine / assault rifle

pistol / revolver

Can you give me the anmse of each of these famous guns e.g. SLR - INSAS etc. ?

Kersi

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby HariC » 01 Dec 2008 21:12

Kersi D wrote:Please educate ignorants like me. What is the difference between the

Rifle / sub machine gun / machine gun / SLR / carbine / assault rifle

pistol / revolver

Can you give me the anmse of each of these famous guns e.g. SLR - INSAS etc. ?

Kersi


oh comon kersi ji , you are asking questions that i would expect an eight year old newbie will do. Why not post it in the newbie thread?

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Aditya G » 03 Dec 2008 09:47

Hi Kersi,

I am scarcely the master of the subject, but basically all these weapons are differentiated from each other on some parameters:

- Mechanism
- Weight
- Rate of fire
- Purpose

In Indian context .303 (actually its 7.62 mm incarnation), SLR, AK-47 and INSAS are assualt rifles used by the army. The first two are no longer in service but found in local police units.

Sterling 9mm is still our carbine.

MP5 is a common submachine gun.

Kersi D wrote:Please educate ignorants like me. What is the difference between the

Rifle / sub machine gun / machine gun / SLR / carbine / assault rifle

pistol / revolver

Can you give me the anmse of each of these famous guns e.g. SLR - INSAS etc. ?

Kersi

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ArmenT » 03 Dec 2008 12:44

Kersi D wrote:Please educate ignorants like me. What is the difference between the

Rifle / sub machine gun / machine gun / SLR / carbine / assault rifle

pistol / revolver

Can you give me the anmse of each of these famous guns e.g. SLR - INSAS etc. ?

Kersi


Rifle: It derives its name from the barrel actually. The barrel is rifled (i.e.) it has one or more grooves spiralling across the length of it. These grooves serve to spin the bullet when it is coming out of the barrel. The spin doesn't make the bullet travel in a straight line necessarily, but it gives it a predictable drift which is what gives a rifle its accuracy. Older firearms, such as muskets, had smooth barrels. These were easier to produce, but didn't have the accuracy of a rifle. This is why European armies had to stand men in line and tell them to shoot at the enemy because almost no one could hit the person he was aiming for with a musket and that's why massed fire was the solution for this shortcoming. Most modern small arms have rifled barrels, so just about all the below items can be called a rifle, but the word rifle by itself usually denotes a weapon that is manually fed (i.e. after each round, you have to operate a lever to eject the cartridge and load the next one), designed to be fired from the shoulder and usually carries a small # of rounds at a time (1 to 5 or so). Example: 30-06 Enfield.

Machine Gun: This is a weapon that is designed to fire multiple rifle cartridges in quick succession. Typically, machine guns have fully automatic or semi-automatic feeds and a selector to set which feed should be used. This is a more generic term and you can have Sub-machine guns, Light Machine Guns, Medium Machine Guns, Heavy Machine Guns, Assault rifles etc. which is why I didn't put any examples here. Machine guns can be fed from box magazine, belt feed, carousel, drum etc. Semi-auto means the user needs to pull the trigger to fire a new round (or 3 rounds) each time. Unlike a manually operated rifle however, the user doesn't need to operate a lever to eject the old round and feed the new round in. Each time a trigger is pulled on a semi-auto, it fires the round and uses some of the recoil energy to eject the old cartridge and chamber a new one automatically. You still need to release and press the trigger again to fire the next round. Some semi-autos will fire 2 or 3 round bursts at a time, but you need to keep pulling and releasing the trigger to fire the next set of rounds. Fully automatic means that the rifle will keep firing as long as the trigger is pressed and there is ammunition available.

Sub-machine gun: This is a machine gun that is made to fire pistol ammunition instead of full size rifle ammunition. They are designed for close-range combat in urban environments. This is more useful since the users don't want the bullet to over-penetrate and hit unintended targets. These can be fired from the shoulder or with one hand. E.g. Heckler & Koch MP-5, sten gun, Uzi etc.

SLR: Self Loading Rifle. This denotes a machine gun light enough to be carried by hand. In commonwealth countries, SLR generally denotes a semi-automatic weapon (vs. a fully automatic weapon). Each time you pull the trigger, the rifle fires a round and then uses some of the recoil to automatically load the next round. E.g. FN-FAL, AR-15 etc.

Carbine: A carbine is generally a version of a rifle which is shorter and lighter than the assault rifle version. In the days of the wild west, people mounted on horses needed a shorter rifle, since they couldn't easily operate a full size weapon when riding. In modern day usage, carbines are easier to fire from moving vehicles for the same reason. People generally use carbines in jungle situations/close quarter combat. Since they have smaller barrels than a rifle, they lack in accuracy compared to a full sized rifle. Unlike a submachine gun, a carbine generally takes same rifle ammo as an assault rifle and many well known assault rifles also come in carbine versions (e.g.) M4 (carbine version of M-16), MINSAS and Excalibur (carbine versions from INSAS), Galil SAR (carbine version of Galil AR) etc.

Assault Rifle: This is actually an English translation of the German "Sturmgewehr" (meaning "storm rifle" as in "storm a castle"). The German name was coined by Adolf Hitler himself, when he was presented with a new form of a weapon during WW-II. Unlike previous rifles that were carried in WW-I, these were optimized to only have a range of 300 or so yards, because the German designers reasoned that the average infantryman couldn't shoot accurately beyond that range anyway. They decided that instead of giving an infantryman an overpowered rifle, they could make one that used less powerful cartridges, which are lighter. This way, the infantryman can carry more ammunition. The MP43 and MP44 were the first assault rifles and the allies borrowed the concept from the Germans. Assault rifles are capable of firing in semi-automatic and automatic modes. Unlike an SLR, these are capable of selecting the mode of fire (which is why the AR-15 is an SLR and not an assault rifle, since you cannot switch it out of semi-auto mode). An assault rifle has cartridges that are larger than pistol/submachine gun cartridges, but smaller than the high powered rifle cartridges of WW-I era. Unlike a sub-machine gun, an Assault rifle is designed to be fired from the shoulder only. E.g. M-16, INSAS, Galil, H&K G-36, AK-47 etc.
Last edited by ArmenT on 03 Dec 2008 13:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Aditya G » 03 Dec 2008 12:55

Cross-posting from hot air forum.

Thanks for the informative post Sanjay.

I find the constant criticism of .303 to be unjustified. There are known shortcomings of the weapon: high recoil, excessive power, high weight and low rate of fire due to bolt action mechanism.

However, it is a potent weapon if the operator is trained for the job. The rifle can kill at long range with great Without training even MP5 or AK-47 will not suffice. So many of these cops were equipped with new build SLRs which are even better.

Constant ranting against the weapon can deflect our attention from the more pressing issue.

Sanjay wrote:Gentlemen, I have read and re-read what has been posted regarding the police.

Everyone and his cat is now an expert on Indian security services and the picture is distorted with some half-truths.

First of all - that piece about the 577 weapons is quite misleading. What that is about is the quantity of weapons "procured". It doesn't even say what year.

The same piece contradicts itself when it talks about the SRPF having SLRs - that's several thousand men armed with a reasonable rifle.

There have been very substantial infusions of modern weapons to the Indian police. Please read the MHA reports over the last few years. According to the 2005-2006 report, 71,717 INSAS, 23,899 SLRs and 34,880 AK-47s have been procured for the state police forces in the last few years.

Remember Punjab got 60,000 SLRs in the 1990s, Bihar ordered several thousand and the UP PAC has fully equipped 100 companies with the type.

52 companies of the PAC in UP were put through their paces by the army and several other forces confronting Naxalites have undertaken similar programs.

The article does make a very good point about firing practice. That's why none of the cops at CST hit anything. Those rifles do take some skill to use.

Even then progress has been made in the Naxal states where policemen have been sent back for re-training after failing to pass marksmanship and physical prowess tests.

Body armour used by CPMFs and the army has been combat tested. There should be no reason why substandard stuff should be passed on to the police.

It would appear, therefore, that emphasis has been placed on providing equipment and training to the forces facing naxalites (apart from those facing insurgencies) and on the India Reserve Battalions.

Training of these units is painfully slow owing to completely inadequate infrastructure.

Let's also face the fact that it is time to do away with the concept of the unarmed constable. Every policeman in urban India must now be armed. Revolvers and pistols would do just fine.

However there is absolutely no excuse for poorly maintained weapons. The fault there lies with the police themselves. Why is it that a reliable weapon like a Sterling carbine jammed after 3 rounds and why on earth was the magazine charged with only 10 rounds ? Weapons need to be maintained properly.

But weapons and practice aren't everything. The whole psychology of the police to face these attacks has to be changed. Can one really expect a constable who is to catch a thief to play Rambo and fight a terrorist ? Can one really expect policemen who are fundamentally civilians in uniform to be soldiers ?

Even the armed police battalions are really a gendarmarie rather than paramilitary units geared up for a fight. That may slowly be changing with the army training being imparted to some APBs but the whole psychology of these units needs to be altered.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby neerajb » 03 Dec 2008 13:51

ArmenT wrote:SLR: Self Loading Rifle. This denotes a machine gun light enough to be carried by hand. In commonwealth countries, SLR generally denotes a semi-automatic weapon (vs. a fully automatic weapon). Each time you pull the trigger, the rifle fires a round and then uses some of the recoil to automatically load the next round. E.g. FN-FAL, AR-15 etc.


Indian SLR which is a lisenced production of FN-FAL is semi-auto but FN-FAL was initially designed with Full-auto. Belgian, Argentinian and Australian forces use automatic version. I have seen a video of FN-FAL in full auto. Man, the shooter was using all of his muscles and leaning forward by 30-35 degrees to control the beast and compensate for recoil. After seeing that one could understand why India and UK went for the semi-auto version. Will try to find and post the video.

Cheers....

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Kartman » 03 Dec 2008 14:09

neerajbhandari wrote:
ArmenT wrote:SLR: Self Loading Rifle. This denotes a machine gun light enough to be carried by hand. In commonwealth countries, SLR generally denotes a semi-automatic weapon (vs. a fully automatic weapon). Each time you pull the trigger, the rifle fires a round and then uses some of the recoil to automatically load the next round. E.g. FN-FAL, AR-15 etc.


Indian SLR which is a lisenced production of FN-FAL is semi-auto but FN-FAL was initially designed with Full-auto. Belgian, Argentinian and Australian forces use automatic version. I have seen a video of FN-FAL in full auto. Man, the shooter was using all of his muscles and leaning forward by 30-35 degrees to control the beast and compensate for recoil. After seeing that one could understand why India and UK went for the semi-auto version. Will try to find and post the video.

Cheers....

To be more precise, the Indian SLR (Ishapore 1A1) is a copy of the British version of the FN-FAL, the semi-auto L1A1 SLR. Made a lot of sense given the higher level of marksmanship of the average IA rifleman (plus, some might say, the SDRE factor :P). It is not entirely clear to me if it is actually a licensed copy... there are a lot of indications that it is not, perhaps like the original AKM -> A-7 copy by OFB :)

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ArmenT » 03 Dec 2008 14:15

neerajbhandari wrote:Indian SLR which is a lisenced production of FN-FAL is semi-auto but FN-FAL was initially designed with Full-auto. Belgian, Argentinian and Australian forces use automatic version. I have seen a video of FN-FAL in full auto. Man, the shooter was using all of his muscles and leaning forward by 30-35 degrees to control the beast and compensate for recoil. After seeing that one could understand why India and UK went for the semi-auto version. Will try to find and post the video.

Cheers....

Indian version is not a licensed version actually :D. FN-FAL was the original Belgian version and it was capable of full-auto fire, like you said. Since Belgium was on SI system of measurements at that time, it was designed with metric tooling.

The Brits adopted the general design, but made a variety of changes/improvements to it. For one, they took out the full-auto capability because they felt that soldiers were wasting too many rounds and it was harder to control this way. They also redesigned the magazine catch, sights, gas regulator etc. They also designed it to be manufactured with their own tooling, which were imperial measurements (since the UK was still using FPS standard at this time). This meant that there were enough differences in some parts, due to the new features and different tooling, that they could not be interchanged with the original FN-FAL parts. Hence, the Brits called their model L1A1.

Now, SDRE Injuns took the L1A1 as their model, not the original FAL, since they liked some of the additional features that the Brits introduced (such as semi-auto mode and the redesigned gas regulator). The cloned Indian version was called the 1A SLR. However since India was on SI already, they converted the British tooling measurements back to the closest SI equivalents. This meant that the 1A SLR's parts didn't fit either the L1A1 or the FN-FAL!! Incidentally, neither Fabrique Nationale, nor Enfield was very happy with what was going on in Ishapore, since neither of them were getting any royalties for 1A production. There were some diplomatic protests and such, but IIRC no royalties were ever paid.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Raj Malhotra » 03 Dec 2008 15:37

A tender document on CRPF website shows request for around 1100 sniper rifles. I think it is a good step, role of designated marksman was much negelected area in Paramilitary and perhaps even in military

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rohitvats » 03 Dec 2008 15:52

I've seen men from the Mechanized Regiments use a shorter and automatic version of the SLR. This was arounf 93-94.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Rahul M » 03 Dec 2008 16:42

BTW, for reasons of bullet economy even the INSAS assault version is not full auto.
it's either single shot or 3 round bursts. this was a specific IA design requirement.

only the carbine and LMG have full auto.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Jagan » 03 Dec 2008 19:01

rohitvats wrote:I've seen men from the Mechanized Regiments use a shorter and automatic version of the SLR. This was arounf 93-94.


Rohit,

Not a shorter version - it was the same length but with forestock shortened. This was to enable the SLR barrel to fit in and to be fired through the gunports in the BMPs of the Mech Inf Regts. (The gun ports were designed keeping the AK in mind)

Took some time for me to find that bit out!

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Aditya G » 03 Dec 2008 20:01

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/02m ... at-cst.htm

...

As he tried to make his way to the place where the terrorists were spraying bullets, he came across a terrorist standing just 15 metres away from him, near platform number 6. Without wasting any time, Pandarkar unlocked his .303 rifle and fired three shots at the terrorist.

Unfortunately, all three bullets missed the target. "When you shoot in such circumstances, it is to kill the target. The terrorist was fortunate that he was not hit by my bullets," he says when asked why he missed the target.

The terrorist fired back and the bullet hit Pandarkar in the chest. When the terrorist ran away, Pandarkar tried to follow him, but couldn't move beyond a few feet. His colleagues rushed to his rescue as he fell down, writhing in pain

....

SaiK
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby SaiK » 03 Dec 2008 20:25


We must get this BPJ!

Igorr
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Igorr » 03 Dec 2008 20:28

Fantastically stupid article! What can be parallel between a man suddenly catched by fire and cold blood trained terrorists?

rohitvats
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby rohitvats » 03 Dec 2008 23:04

Jagan,

Thanks for the info. My bad. When I said shorter, it was not on the lines of a carbine version. Wasn't aware of the technical term (shorter 'forestock').

Sanjay
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby Sanjay » 04 Dec 2008 02:30

Raj, that's why there have been substantial infusions of Dragunovs into the military and CPMFs. Also, there are more optical sights available for INSAS LMGs and rifles to support them.

It still will never be enough if policemen at the state level don't know how to use there weapons properly and fail to maintain them. Since 1993 the Mumbai police have been plagued with this problem and have themselves done nothing at all.

Jagan, back in the late 1990s I noticed that the Rifle 1C - that's the full auto SLR - was being carried on the Western front by NCOs. I believe the Indian Army's views on the type were mixed. Some loved it, some said it lost accuracy with barrel drop.

ramana
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Postby ramana » 04 Dec 2008 09:23

I think a reduced charge warhead is need for CQB in urban areas to reduce the excess balst in confined areas for the Carl Gustaf RCl with Indian Army. The excess blast knocked down Maj Unnikrishnan.

I like the idea of the 0.32 pistol carbine for the ind police as that provides a steady supply of cartridges. Can an existing design be rechambered?

One can always get exotic artridges but become hostages to supply chain


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