Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

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vivek_ahuja
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 18 Dec 2012 11:52

DAY 9 + 1500 HRS

CHINESE NATIONAL COMMAND CENTER
WEST OF BEIJING
CHINA


“I think I have heard just about enough of your concerns! Colonel Dianrong, get the 822 Brigade commanders on the line now!” General Liu thundered and slammed the table. The force of it physically shook the civilian party leader in the room. But Liu’s opponent in the room was not.

“Colonel! Stay that order!” Lieutenant-General Wencang shouted from his end of the table with a finger pointed at Colonel Dianrong who had the phone in his hand. The force of the order from Wencang caused Dianrong to pause mid-way. Wencang turned to Liu.

“You are out of line, Wencang!” Liu’s voice was shaking with anger. He was not used to having his orders questioned, let alone dismissed.

“And you do not have the authority to make unilateral decisions on this matter!” Wencang shouted back and gestured at Chairman Peng, who was quite shaken by the direction the military commanders in the room were taking. His authority was only enforced by the uniformed people in this room. When that disappeared…

Liu pounded the table with his fist and got up from his chair forcefully enough to make it fall on the ground. He pointed to Wencang with a finger quivering with anger.
“Are you insane, Wencang?! Insane! We have been attacked with ballistic missiles! Would you rather wait till our forces are completely wiped out? Just like your forces were at Golmud? If we don’t strike now we will only embolden the Indians into striking deeper and harder! My men died under your command at Golmud. You may be fine losing your command and your air war, but I will turn the entire subcontinent into a pile of radioactive ash before I lose mine! But I have had quite enough of this waste of time!” Liu turned again to Dianrong, his aide-de-camp. The latter was stuck in a very nasty position…

“Colonel Dianrong, I gave you a direct order! I want you to carry it out…RightNow!”

General Liu! Control yourself! What on earth did you expect the Indians to respond with? They have no other weapons to hit us with! What part of this do you not understand? So they hit us with ballistic missiles! So what! We have two hundred of those deployed in Tibet under several brigades! We will use those first!” Wencang shouted from where he was now also standing.

“Why can’t you get this through your head: this war will go nuclear! If not today, then tomorrow! We need to accept this fact and strike now and be done with it before we lose any more control on the ground now!” Liu shouted back.

With two of his senior commanders thundering at each other in the room with the echo from the walls, Chairman Peng rubbed his forehead and looked around. The other senior party leaders were looking at the two Generals arguing with each other. There were several other Generals from the PLA and two Admirals from Navy in the room. And they were equally divided on the issue as well. Ultimately the decision was his and he realized he had to make it while he still maintained a semblance of control over the military.

“That’s quite enough! Both of you!” Peng shouted at the top of his voice. He then turned to Colonel Dianrong:
“Colonel, put down that phone and step away. And that one is my order to you!”

With both Liu and Wencang seething, Dianrong put down the phone and quietly backed away towards the walls and took his position. Peng got up from his seat and looked at Wencang.

“Is it true that you lost several special mission aircraft in the Indian missile attack on Golmud?”
“Yes, comrade chairman. It is true,” he said after controlling his anger.

“And we also lost the long range cruise-missile launchers that General Liu had attached to the air-force. What is the status of that base?” Peng asked neutrally. Liu took his seat in the meantime.

“It is no longer operational. We will need all of today to repair sections of the runway enough to allow fighters to land and refuel. But we have relocated several units to Korla, Lanzhou and…”

Wencang stopped mid-sentence at Peng’s raised hand. The latter continued:
“I am not finished, General! Please answer my questions first and then say what it is you wish to say.”

General Chen and the other PLA commanders noticed everything. The party leader was exerting his control. And Chen knew that Liu and several of the PLA garrison commanders in this region were strongly loyal to the party and Peng. So the chairman could push back on Wencang without too much worry…
Wencang noted the insult as well but bit his tongue on that. Instead he just nodded agreement.

“So it is safe to surmise that the Indians have control of the air over the battlefields. If they have control of the air, they will control events on the ground eventually. It is inevitable. Now, I understand we have significant unused missile capabilities in Tibet. We were perhaps far too confident about our air-force’s ability to control the skies when we went into this venture two weeks ago. And the air-force has proven us wrong and brought us to the verge of defeat. The navy did not fare any better, did it?” Peng turned to face Admiral Huaqing, who was having difficulty swallowing the lump in his throat. The meeting had just covered the disastrous naval battle in the Indian Ocean earlier that day before the argument between Wencang and Liu had erupted.

“I think the our conventional forces have failed us utterly and brought shame and defeat on us, the armed forces and China! And I blame you all for that! All of you! Generals and Admirals alike are to blame for this! We find ourselves hiding in this bunker like rats waiting to be exterminated! And perhaps I am to blame as well for believing in the supposed capabilities of all of you and your incompetent field commanders! But unlike you, I have the luxury of correcting my mistakes, here and now!” Peng thundered at Wencang and looked at Admiral Huaqing. The latter man was sweating utterly over his uniform coats. Wencang stared the Chairman like a rock. He did not fear what he knew was coming next…

“General Wencang! Consider yourself dismissed as commander of the air-force! General Chen, you are dismissed as well. You have brought defeat on your respective commands and betrayed the trust of the people of China. And for that you will answer to them when the time comes. But for now, I will not have you pollute the minds of others in this room any further!”
Wencang grunted, then pulled himself to attention and saluted. Chen got up from his seat as well and did the same. Peng did not return the respect.

“Get out of my sight! Both of you!”

As both men got up and collected their papers and left the room, Peng turned to the two naval commanders…

“Admiral Huaqing! I think back now to the lies you spoke to my face about out supposed capabilities and wonder whether I should not have you shot for treason right now! But there is war on and I would not want the people to grow concerned with the loss of their Admirals at such a time. So consider yourself lucky that I am just having you removed from your post as commander of the People’s Navy and placed under arrest. You will answer for your deceit later! Get out of my sight!”

As the Admiral fumbled with his papers and got up from the chair, General Liu looked took a deep breath and sighed. Peng waited in silence as the last of the two naval commanders left the room and the door was closed behind them by Colonel Dianrong. Once silence prevailed in the room again, Peng turned to face Liu as the latter returned the stare.

“General Liu, if I ever find you questioning my orders in front of this committee or anywhere else, I will have you removed from your post as well. Is that understood?”
“Absolutely,” Liu replied calmly.

“Now, there is the matter of the Indians. For all the incompetence shown by our conventional force commanders, it is the Indians ultimately who are to blame for all this. And they will pay dearly, Liu. But not at the cost of our cities! If we were to lose even one of our major cities on top of what all is happening in Tibet over the last year, I feel the party will not survive. And we MUST survive! Without us, this country has no future against the powers of Japan and the Americans. So, do what you must. But we have to ensure that we bring the Indians on their knees and willing to negotiate an end to this war. At the end of the day, we can always tell our people whatever we like. Our control of the media will work in our favor on the matter,” Peng said and then took his seat.

“I can bring the Indians to their knees. Wencang was right on one thing, I will admit. The Indians did not have anything else with sufficient range to strike at Golmud airbase with anything other than ballistic missiles. But their strike has given us the opening we need to end this war on our terms. And I intend to use it. The question is whether you and the other party leaders are willing to bear the fallout and stand strong on what has to happen,” Liu said. Peng saw the ruthless glint in his eyes.

“And what will happen, exactly?” Peng asked after considering for a few seconds.

“This war will not end on the battlefields. This is a fact. Something that Wencang, Jinping, Chen and the other conventional force commanders simply could not understand or accept. It went against their misplaced sense of honor and duty. They do not understand that the fundamental nature of this war has changed. And they failed to adapt. To my surprise, the Indians proved far more adept to accepting this fact than face defeat. I admire them for that, I will accept,” Liu said.

“You are almost praising the Indians,” Peng noted with raised eyebrows.

“Hardly. I hold them in no more regard than a tiger that has outrun its prey. Yes it ran and gave the Tiger the satisfaction of the chase. But the Tiger tires of this game. The attack on the Indian controlled city of Tawang was an interesting test to see the inner weakness of the Indian government to digest civilian casualties. The three thousand civilians that died in that one attack nearly overwhelmed their government’s ability to respond to the outcry of their population. And their media will work in our favor on this matter round the clock. At Tawang they saw merely a glance at our might and our resolve to inflict whatever wounds we needed to win this war. I think the time has now come for the Indian population to see the true might of our resolve…”

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Bala Vignesh » 18 Dec 2012 12:00

No No No.. Don't leave us hanging like this.. This is massive KLPD..

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Chinmayanand » 18 Dec 2012 13:33

We need more , the climax is getting nearer with chinese losing on conventional front.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby nash » 18 Dec 2012 14:24

What about cyber warfare to disclose the actual status of war to Chinese people.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Singha » 18 Dec 2012 15:59

those H-6s loaded with cruise missiles escorted by a squadron of J-11s from central china cannot be out for a evening walk...

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Anand K » 18 Dec 2012 16:17

Mass casualties due to *conventional* BM/CM strikes. That will be a first..... we were lucky not to see the mass deaths of WW1 and WW2. (Well there was the famine in Bengal in '43). Imagine a firestorm in South East Delhi a la Dresden.... or a wipe-out of Raisinia and the Dilli Billis... or a couple of conventional combined effects warheads over the heart of Chandigarh

Will we soak it and cry for revenge or ....

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby nash » 18 Dec 2012 17:11

another thing i didn't get that Chinese are concern for their cities but eager to attack Inidan cities with conventional BM and expect us to bent to our knees because of media cry, may be possible, but there would be many people in India who will also want to give some scars to China, 1 or 2 A-3(conventional) on shanghai and their control on media would go for toss.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Singha » 18 Dec 2012 18:33

The problem is they are known to have a lot more bm or cm than india.

Plus they can hit any city in north india with cheap short range missiles while to reach even the nearest worthwhile cities in sichuan , we need to use agni1 at extreme range...our cheap missile the dhanush is useless against countervalue targets.

So they can afford to lob a few 100 with conventional payload to terrorize india and excite the media. We cannot and have to save most of it for a second strike response if the war goes nuclear.

The only game changer if we develop it properly is the shourya produced in bulk and with 200kg payload.

Not to put communal ideas on table but to me it seems 3m14 strikes from akula/kilos on east coast infra is only non linear response.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby RamaY » 18 Dec 2012 21:04

^ True.

Given the weapon capabilities and vast tibetan territory in between, what are india's options?

Perhaps few surprising conventional brahmos on east-coast cities - refineries, airports and train stations? The idea is to expose common chinese abduls to the war.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby nachiket » 18 Dec 2012 21:07

RamaY wrote:Perhaps few surprising conventional brahmos on east-coast cities - refineries, airports and train stations? The idea is to expose common chinese abduls to the war.

How will you get the launching platform (Su-30 or an IN ship) close enough to the installations? Brahmos is not an option. Nirbhay (when we get it), Agni-I/II and Shourya (again when we get it) are our only options, and as you see we only have the Agnis here as far as this scenario is concerned. Agni-II's I suppose have to be saved for the nuclear role.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby nash » 18 Dec 2012 21:56

As per wiki, A-2 is operational and in production from 2001-02 and rate is 12-18/year, this make the total of atleast about 150.
This number is more than enough to us to use some conventional ones on their major cities,from AuP, like gunagzao(~2020),chengdu(~1000) and if we stretch it then shangai(~2400) also.This would made many chinese open their eyes and see the reality and i think SFC,RAW,etc know these things.

A-3 already have a missile group in 2012, it has longer range and can go upto beijing, but limited in number so we can keep this for Nuclear strike.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Avarachan » 19 Dec 2012 05:15

vivek_ahuja wrote:DAY 9 + 1500 HRS

“At the end of the day, we can always tell our people whatever we like. Our control of the media will work in our favor on the matter,” Peng said and then took his seat.


There are more than 330,000 Chinese students studying abroad.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/china-n ... 95022.html

Because they're outside of China, they can access cable TV, Internet chat rooms, etc. Granted, transmitting that information back into China is difficult, due to the government's restrictions. But it nonetheless happens, particularly between close friends and relatives. Many of the students come from wealthy and influential families.

If the Chinese government thinks it can completely control the flow of information inside China, it is in for a rude surprise.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Singha » 19 Dec 2012 07:22

I dont know if we have produced that many A2..mainly because its a program in constant refinement and production may have been limited until the definitive A2-AT was tested a couple years ago.

to me it seems Kilo submarines launching 3m14 klubs against coastal targets is reasonable bet. we have already heard official confirmation in another thread that our kilos which are upgraded test fire the 3m14 and 3m54e for post upg tests. each kilo has room for 14 weapons. leaving 4 HWT for self defence, potentially 10 3m14 could be carried. a couple of subs could deliver 28...not a small number.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby member_20292 » 19 Dec 2012 08:12

Those ranges of agni two are not accurate.

Please think of them as icbms, as the range published in the public media is half the real range.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby rajanb » 19 Dec 2012 09:37

So far, the rest of the world is conspicous by its absence.

And whatever Vivekji has dished out so far is very delectable. Let us see if he inroduces a melee of other countries, each following their agenda. If China and India is going to suffer so much, it will also bring the world's economy down.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Manish_Sharma » 19 Dec 2012 10:57

Can Agni 2s take out 4 of these refineries (highlighted with blue dots) ?

Image

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Singha » 19 Dec 2012 11:13

refineries only look vulnerable . in reality its very hard to cause a large fire in a refinery because of the distributed nature of stuff and world class fire fighting infra built in from day1.

huge fires are possible in POL storage areas adjacent to the main refinery, but often these just tend to burn off in a few days without much collateral damage.

some very specific points in a refinery might be vulnerable to a long repair cycle if destroyed, but a IRBM is not so accurate probably...would need PGMs from cruise missiles or aircraft.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Mihir.D » 19 Dec 2012 11:27

Can a Agni-2 type missile launch a sensor fused weapon on a refinery ? That would have multiple impact points rather then have have a single warhead impact ?

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby nash » 19 Dec 2012 12:09

Manish_Sharma wrote:Can Agni 2s take out 4 of these refineries (highlighted with blue dots) ?

Image


4, with conventional warhead and that too only for refineries they can knock all 7 below beijing.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby member_20292 » 20 Dec 2012 10:54

I think Agni 2 can hit all of them. The Agni series is almost all ICBM capable. This is 60's tech, the ICBM. We can aim accurately at the moon, let along at a refinery.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Anand K » 20 Dec 2012 12:08

IMHO one must factor the faster mobilization, the freight/transport infrastructure and media control of the Chicoms when we mark counter-value targets. The massive overcapacity and the standardization allows faster rebuilding. Say, Cutting Tools Factory 337 (with the trained work-force) in the a$$ end of Gansu can be uprooted overnight to replace Shenzhen factory flattened by our conventional warheads. The Soviets under Stalin's whip did this when the Nazis blitzed deep into Russia.... 70 years ago. The Chinese could replicate or even beat this feat I guess.

Considering the above and putting aside the nuke aspect, what can we effectively target [as counter-value] with our not-unlimited conventional missiles that would deter any Chicom aggression? We have the luxury of only population targets or do we have options which will not cause too many civilian deaths (at least until they force our hand)?

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Bala Vignesh » 20 Dec 2012 12:36

The best target would be to blow up the party controlled media houses.. With their own media blown up, ostensibily by uigher/tibetean rebels, the masses will look for other sources and will automatically find out about the real situation of the on going war.*m.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Anand K » 20 Dec 2012 13:16

Getting info is one thing; organizing some significant widespread protest so as to shake up the center is another. But China has an unbroken tradition of bloody revolts and rebellions when the center falls; even with the tight controls modern science offers and the current power structure I guess we can expect a good deal of fireworks.

PS: Many military fiction writers resort to a Deus Ex Machina when they pen a China story... a jarring way to force a closure to their stories. It involves either local populace rising up against the Mandarins (aided by US Media) a-la Clancy's "The Bear and the Dragon".... or a nuke armed force (like a Boomer) decapitating it's own leadership.
IMHO neither would happen; in the first case we are underestimating Praetorian forces (even with the little facts we know about them) and the Security Services and the resolve of the Chicom leadership. In the second case people underestimate the whole screening/conditioning/imprinting process an entity like the Chicom system will use to select the people who are given their Brahmastras.

Wonder what Vivek Ahuja-ji has in store for us?

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby member_20292 » 20 Dec 2012 13:31

In case of a war with India, their populace will unite behind the CPC just as it did when Japan Diayou islands were fought over and protests were held.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby member_20292 » 20 Dec 2012 13:33

I believe the way to beat them is information warfare. In this field, we are a superpower, next only to the US. They have to be split internally. An external war will not help so much.

Having gotten into an external war, I would target the PLA leadership, military factories, ICBMs, then the air force, then the army.

Of course, the naval blockade will be on in full swing, of the oil to China.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Singha » 20 Dec 2012 14:21

hit the power distribution grid and generation plants. the downstream effects to lost or disrupted industrial production will be in tens of billions of $$ even for a few weeks of repair time. and since the party bigwigs at all levels and their associates are deep into business it will hurt their cashflow directly, without causing any significant civilian KIA.

same goes for POL storage areas. and even water treatment plants. throw in some freight train parking areas as well esp the ones used to move coal from the northern interior to the south.

in typical soviet/noko/cheen SOP, Gen Wencang and other fires officers will be given very poor options - either face extermination of their whole family / honour / labour camp for the kids or write a self-denouncing essay and take poison or shoot themselves in exchange for safety for their family and no loss of honour (will be marked as a air crash or death in cowardly yindu attack). Gen Liu will be ruthless in ensuring all his ex-rivals are taken off the map.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Ajit.C » 20 Dec 2012 16:01

All of us sound like the Hindi Soap Operas which advertise before the serial begins "aab Saas kya karegi, ab bahu kya karegi" stuff.

Really we should be channelising our energy and efforts in "encouraging' Vivek for speeding up his posts.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby rsingh » 20 Dec 2012 19:49

DAY 9 19:30 IST
Somewhere in Central India


Vivek Ahuja could still hear the bell. As he opened the door MIL entered the room followed by SHQ. MIL scanned the house and gave a look of disapproval.She looked at Vivek Ahuja who had lost weight and had black skin around eyes. Vivek Ahuja is capable of handling complex military scenarios, he is well versed in military hardware of worlds armies, he is a brilliant strategist but he can not face MIL. Any way after some brilliant tactical and strategical moves by SHQ it was unilaterally decided (by her) that sitting in front of computer is bad for health and Vivake Ahuja's acces to internet was limited. En plus MIL prescribed two spoonful of "Amle Ka Achar" with goat milk along with Chavanprash and jeera parntha.
Now it was time to think over it and make mind. To scumb to the slings of killer eyes of SHQ or to use the wings of freedom and fly ; to bow to the daily chors of Grah Gristi or to indulge in cut throat strategic decision that will decide the outcome of clash between two of the worlds oldest civilizations............in short .......to post or not to post that's the question.

PS/ Saar it this post or part of it is offending,please let me know. We are just getting boared without your posts and I take liberty to put few lines.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby RamaY » 20 Dec 2012 20:31

More than individual, family is important. more than family, village is important, more that village, the state is important. more than the state, the nation is important. More than nation, MIL is important!

Missing

Vivek Ahuja, a member of BRF, is missing for past few days. If anyone finds him (s)trolling around other forums and threads, please inform the authorities.

Dear Vivek,

Please come home. We will not blame you for not destroying the Chini AC or for using agni-1 ballistic missiles against Chinese military installations taking to the war to the next level. We are happy with taking few Chinese nukes on Delhi because it has become a rape capital since you left home.


Reward: Anyone who either brings Vivek back to this dhaga or to give clues of his whereabouts, will not be trolled by Yama for next 10 dins.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby rsingh » 20 Dec 2012 20:36

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 20 Dec 2012 20:48

:D

Sorry for the delay saar, SHQ was at my BRF field HQ last two days and ordered me to abandon the BRF FEBA for that duration. Upon departure of SHQ, I have once again returned. :mrgreen:

Bliss to give me a couple hours to clean up and post the next post on this dhaga.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby chaanakya » 20 Dec 2012 20:50

rsingh tussi great ho.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 20 Dec 2012 22:29

DAY 9 + 1900 HRS (IST)

MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
MOSCOW, RUSSIA


“This madness has to stop!”
“I think it is hardly a matter of us stopping anything right now. If anything, you should be spending this time with my counterpart from Beijing perhaps,” Tiwari, the Indian Ambassador in Moscow replied as he stood in the office of the Russian Minister.

For his part, Bogdanov was having a hard time being seated. Moscow was under no threat from the war being waged in the Indian subcontinent, Tibet and the Indian Ocean region.

In fact, business was good.

Both New-Delhi and Beijing were in crisis talks with the Kremlin for new emergency contracts for artillery, missiles and aircraft to be replace the significant losses on both sides. It was worse for Beijing, given the much higher losses in difficult-to-replace items such as Su-27s, Su-30s and Il-76s. India had taken losses in some precious items as well, such as their Su-30s and Mig-27s. But for the Indian side the greatest need of the hour was replacement for spent rounds of the Brahmos, R-77s, anti-radar missiles and other airborne weapons. This did not even take into account the needs of the Naval arm of either countries or the massive needs of the land forces.
So both the Indian and Chinese embassy staffs in Russia were hard at work on behalf of their respective nations to secure instant contracts. All of which was either being paid for up front or on very generous credit lines favoring Moscow. In case of India, other such deals were also underway in Washington to provide additional spares for aircraft such as the C-130Js, C-17s and P-8Is which were being used essentially throughout the last two weeks alongside the Il-76s and An-32s. And money was flowing. All in all, there was little incentive in either Washington or Moscow for any serious intervention to halt the war…

Until the Indian Navy went berserk against the Chinese commercial shipping in the Indian Ocean, that is.

Over the last two weeks, the world economies were getting affected at ever increasing rates as commercial shipping had to be diverted away from well-established routes in the ocean and away from the potential combat zones. Foreign personnel had been evacuated from both India and China in the last week of the war as conditions worsened and the threat levels increased. That affected companies worldwide since China was a production center and India was an information technology center. Once that threshold was achieved where the benefits of the emergency defense deals being made by New-Delhi and Beijing were offset and turned negative by the overall losses in other sectors of the economy, the thought process in Washington and Moscow had changed.

There was also a military and media aspect to all of that. Unlike other wars, the frontlines in this war were hard to reach by the media on either side. The targets being struck were in remote regions of Tibet far from western media coverage and on the Indian side the lines of logistics were so clogged with military traffic beset with chaos that effective discerning of the current state of the conflict was impossible to do from the media standpoint. The fact that the war was spread over two thousand kilometers and hundreds of thousands of the ocean waters did not make matters any easier for the media. The only people who knew how the war was really going were in the military and government. And the media was forced into a situation where they were dependent on press handouts from New-Delhi, Beijing, Washington and other locations.

Social media was adding to the chaos in a massive way as well. With the disparate pieces of information coming in from differing media sources, and with the population on social media only being able to offer what they could see and hear, the effect was more chaos than a clear picture of what was happening. Rumors of nuclear weapons being used were rampant and causing mass chaos in the major cities despite government claims to the contrary. The ripple effects on the economics of the world were significant by this stage. Businesses in both India and China were being shut down as people moved away from the major cities in anticipation of what was to come…
Bogdanov looked Tiwari straight in the eyes and saw that the Indian returned the same.

“Mr. Tiwari, I think the time for games is over. I stand here not as your enemy but as a friend, as an official representative from the Kremlin and as a personal representative from President Putin. I have been instructed to ask you as to what it will take for your government to terminate hostilities against the People’s Republic of China,” he said finally. Both men were standing in their formal suits and neither wanted to sit down. The time for informalities was over.

“I have no such instructions for negotiations from New-Delhi, Minister Bogdanov. But if I were to venture and express my personal opinions, I would say that Beijing started this war following a brutal repression program against the will of the Tibetan populace to become free from the Chinese oppression. Beijing attempted to crush that will…and failed. They then tried to blame India for it in front of the world…and failed again to gather support. They then proceeded to attack my country with perhaps the most massive conventional arms campaign the world has ever seen…and failed again. If I was to say anything at all, sir, I would say that they are getting everything they deserve at this point,” Tiwari said with quiet force the man was known for. He had not been assigned as New-Delhi’s representative to Moscow offhandedly.

Of course that confidence stemmed from the state of the war as well. Like Beijing, New-Delhi and the Kremlin had also assessed that China had lost the conventional war against India. But it was also the logical extrapolation of that assessment that it was therefore only a matter of time before Beijing did something desperate to change that status…

“Did New-Delhi have anything to do with arming and assisting the Tibetans as the Chinese claim?” Bogdanov asked neutrally. He half-expected a rebuttal, and got the same.
“Does it matter at this point? Whatever the truth to that assessment might be, Beijing is going to believe whatever they want to believe. Matters on the ground, however, will not wait for them,” Tiwari replied.

“It is our assessment that the Indian Government is becoming increasingly aggressive in dealing with Beijing and that the momentum of the war has shifted. But bear in mind that Beijing knows that as well and if you push them too hard into the corner, they will become desperate, if that is indeed the word for it. Your passion for retribution for the war of 1962 aside, I think the use of nuclear weapons concerns us all, don’t you think?” Bogdanov continued. Tiwari noted the tone and the content of the statement and realized the Russian Foreign Minister had more to say.
“I think that given the impact both India and China have on the world’s economy, it is in all of our interests if the war did not result in the destruction of economic capacities on both sides. India has proven its point to Beijing. We observed the naval battle in the Indian Ocean this morning. We also detected your ballistic missile strikes against targets in northern Tibet as well. We know for a fact that the Chinese air forces no longer exert an effective presence against your air-force. And we are of the same conclusion: China is defeated. End this now before a clean victory is lost in the ashes of a nuclear cloud!”

“China is defeated? Minister Bogdanov, you might want to run that by the Chinese Ambassador because as far as we can tell, they are far from admitting any such thing. We will continue our operations until the Chinese threat to our country from Tibet is neutralized,” Tiwari responded. The tone had gone colder now. Bogdanov nodded his agreement with Tiwari.

“That is true. Beijing will not publicly accept defeat or even the projection of coming to the negotiating table if they are the ones who have to initiate it. It goes against their concept of preserving ‘face’, whatever the hell that means to them,” Bogdanov shrugged. “But surely New-Delhi is not in the same category here? We need your government to be mature about this and take the first step. President Putin has asked me to extend the offer of Moscow acting as an intermediary in this matter. I understand that New-Delhi and Beijing currently do not have a direct line of communication between them since last week. We can change that through this office.”

Tiwari considered that. He was no fool. He knew exactly what the extrapolations were for this war. Hours, not days, before it could go nuclear. The Indian Army in Arunachal Pradesh now had two Mountain Divisions readying for an offensive into the Chinese side of the McMahon line. There was no saying how Beijing would respond to that when they came to know about it.

The wounded dragon in a corner could be a very dangerous beast…

“Very well, sir. I will forward your offer to my government for consideration. But I will say this: if you plan to talk to the Chinese Ambassador tonight, make sure that they understand that their rhetoric on the use of nuclear weapons in their state media will not be tolerated if any such meeting is to occur. Our people will not be open for negotiation under a nuclear threat. Beijing would be sadly mistaken if they doubt our resolve to turn their mainland territories into a nuclear wasteland if the situation demands,” Tiwari said.

The wounded dragon in the corner could be a dangerous beast, but the elephant’s tusks were no less sharp…

Bogdanov nodded agreement and glanced at Tiwari as he did so. He thought he saw something on the corner of the man’s mouth: a smirk that existed for merely a second and then disappeared. Bogdanov thought he saw something in the man representing the Indian government…

Confidence?
Last edited by vivek_ahuja on 21 Dec 2012 03:26, edited 1 time in total.

Bala Vignesh
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Bala Vignesh » 20 Dec 2012 22:58

For once, I like this Babu.. Way to go, Mr. Tiwari.. Another shot, please vivek mian..

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby naird » 21 Dec 2012 00:11

Freaking Brilliant ...Loved the conversation......

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 21 Dec 2012 03:24

DAY 9 + 2000 HRS

THE JUNWEI-KONG-JUN
STRATEGIC OPERATIONS CENTER
BEIJING


“This makes no sense whatsoever sir,” Feng said.

“Did you expect any different, Colonel?” Wencang said from behind the desk in his office. Chen sat on the comfortable sofa lined up along the side of the wall of the office away from the desk. Feng looked at his former commander and saw a neutral face. Chen had always been good at controlling his inner feelings. But Feng was having a hard time believing what he had been told about the meeting in the afternoon at the CNCC…

“We are scapegoats, nothing more,” Wencang continued. “The Chairman needed somebody to take the fall for what had transpired over the last two weeks. The only people from the military who can still hope to claim any sense of authority with the party now are the ones whose hands are not yet blooded by battle. And also those like General Liu and his coterie of commanders buried inside the CNCC bunkers, who we hope will never be blooded.”

“Although that seems more unlikely as time passes,” Chen said from where he sat.
“Indeed,” Wencang said as he picked up his glass with three fingers of whiskey still glistening gold under the light of the office. He considered drinking it while he still was in his office and still nominally in command.

Well, time to enjoy the privileges of command while they last…

He emptied the glass in one gulp and looked around to the disapproving eyes of Chen and Feng. Neither man said a word. He turned to Chen while putting the empty glass back on his desk.
“So Chen, it would interest you to know that Admiral Huaqing is no longer with us in the mortal world. I got the news before you two came in. He was arrested by the chief political commissar and taken away for questioning. I guess Peng changed his mind on him. If he’s lucky, he would be dead by now.”

Chen grunted a laugh. He was not surprised by the news.
“When is our turn?”

“Not yet. Liu still needs senior air-force commanders experienced in combat to guard his precious ground forces in Tibet. Out time will come soon, but not yet.”

Wencang turned to Feng:
“Colonel, what is the status of Operation Punitive-Dragon?”
Feng checked his wrist-watch before looking back at the General.
“It should begin within two hours, sir.”

“Good. It will go ahead as planned,” Wencang ordered, and then laughed. “You might be wondering how I am still giving orders to you and the air-force operations staff. As it turns out, we have been thrown out of the national decision making process by the chairman, but they still need an operative air-force. And General Liu is no fool. He understands this very well. I am still the acting commander of the people’s air-force until they can find a replacement or the war gets over. Whichever comes first, of course!”

“I understand, sir,” Feng replied. His voice suggested otherwise.

“Very well. Consider yourself dismissed, Colonel. And tell the boys from the 19TH Fighter Division that the commander of the air-force wishes them good-luck and good-hunting.” Wencang said.
Feng saluted and walked out of the office, leaving the two Generals sitting as Wencang’s adjutant closed the door behind Feng. Chen looked at Wencang in silence. The latter leaned back in his leather chair…
“He’s a good field commander. I would have put his name for promotion above the other untested commanders for replacing you as commander of the Chengdu-Lanzhou unified-MRAF in case the both of us are…what’s the word for it?” Wencang turned his face to the roof above.

“Disposed?” Chen offered. Wencang laughed.

“I will take it. Yes, when both of us are disposed. But as it stands, my recommendation at this time might actually doom that man rather than help him. He might find himself alongside the same brick wall as us!”

“Let his operational record speak for itself. If Punitive-Dragon succeeds, it will be all the feathers in his cap that he will need to survive this war,” Chen stated flatly.
“Indeed,” Wencang agreed. He leaned forward from his chair and rubbed his eyes with both hands. Perhaps the tiredness of two weeks of war was catching up with him. Perhaps it was the whiskey...or his own mortality flashing before his eyes as he wondered his fate and that of his colleague sitting across the room from him.

“Chen, how on earth did we get here? What went wrong with our plans? What more could we have done to ensure a victory instead of this sinking quagmire towards nuclear war?” Wencang muttered from his chair. Chen did not respond because the question was more rhetorical and self-reflective than an actual query. Wencang finally looked over to his colleague from all these years:
“My friend, did we do our duty towards the people of China?” To that Chen did reply:

“Yes. Yes we did.”
Last edited by vivek_ahuja on 21 Dec 2012 03:33, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 21 Dec 2012 03:26

DAY 9 + 2130 HRS

THE MINISTRY OF NATIONAL DEFENSE BUILDING
BEIJING, CHINA


“Ah, welcome General!” Liu extended his hand to Lieutenant-General Rashad Mahmoud as the latter man and his entourage of three middle-grade officers walked down the corridor to Liu’s peacetime office inside the building. General Mahmoud shook his hands as Liu waved him into the office. Colonel Dianrong closed the door behind the two men, leaving the rest of the group of officers outside.

“Colonel-General Liu; Congratulations on your promotion,” Mahmoud said as he looked at the man’s uniform shoulder-boards. Liu took the compliment with a smile.
“One of the incentives the party uses to reward us poor soldiers for good battlefield command during times of war,” Liu said magnanimously. Mahmoud was no fool. He knew exactly what the underlying circumstances behind Liu’s promotions were. Rumors run deep in as autocratic a country as China…

“Of course, General,” he offered. “I understand that these are trying times for us all.”

“Mahmoud, I am going to come straight to the point here because time is short and my presence is needed elsewhere as well. In calling for this meeting, I am hoping to fill you in on the developments taking place with our offensive operations against India and where you might come into the picture,” Liu stated flatly from behind his desk. Mahmoud was not surprised. He knew fully well where this was going…

“I want to start by stating that your country’s assistance during this time of great crisis in the south Asia has not gone unnoticed. In helping Beijing bring India’s imperialistic aggressions in Tibet under control and helping restore Beijing’s sovereignty over what is rightfully its own, the Pakistani government has established its true credentials of friendship to China. And for that we are grateful. Your aircraft continue to provide valuable airborne radar coverage and signals information to our air-force over Kashmir and Ladakh and your intelligence agencies have passed volumes of data on Indian military movements throughout their country. You have done this wholeheartedly and without asking for anything. Chairman Peng and I agree that it is perhaps now time for Pakistan to get an opportunity to gain something in return,” Liu said and then paused to let Mahmoud grasp the essence of what was being stated.

General Mahmoud was indeed no fool. He was posted as the liaison between the Chinese military and his own country’s commanders in Rawalpindi. One of the advantages of offering the PAF’s airborne radar data as well the signals intelligence data was that Pakistan was fully aware of where the war really was at this point…

And now they want us to help them pull this war from the brink by diverting India’s strength away…

“I am not sure I follow, Liu. What exactly is Beijing prepared to offer us?” he said finally.
“We are prepared to offer your government the opportunity to end a continued threat along your eastern borders. A joint strike against Indian forces in Kashmir and elsewhere when they are already weakened will allow your forces to retake the Kashmir valley quickly and allow China to take back the eastern territories that it has allowed to stay under Indian control for the past hundred years. Its time India was shown its real place in the subcontinent!” Liu said grandly. Mahmoud nodded in agreement but was far from enthusiastic about jumping on board a sinking ship.

Sure. Why not? Let’s all indulge in our fantasies while we are at it…

He had been briefed already by Rawalpindi about this.
“General Liu, I will pass this offer to Rawalpindi and Islamabad but I am unsure where our own capabilities are at this point to deal with India. The Taliban menace gripping our nation is already taxing the army’s capabilities to…” Mahmoud was interrupted mid-sentence by Liu.

“Am I to understand that you are refusing China’s offer to join hands in dealing with India?”

“Not at all. I am not authorized to make any such statements. But I am preparing you for what will undoubtedly follow, Liu. Let’s face facts here. This war is not going as you all had planned. Yes, India is weakened, but more so are your forces in Tibet. Your only recourse at this point is your nuclear and ballistic missile arsenals. And our estimate is that your forces are gearing for that eventuality already. Under these circumstances, where is the time for a conventional buildup of Pakistani land forces along the Indian border? And then there is the question of the Indian armored forces that are basically un-blooded in this war and are straining at the leash to be let loose on your forces. Since they cannot do that because of terrain, they will willingly do so with us if we joined the war. That massive a ground engagement is beyond Pakistan’s ability without weeks of mobilization. So the way I see it, the only way we can contribute anything to China’s fight against India is via a combined nuclear missile strike package. And that decision, if reached, will have to be done so from Islamabad and Rawalpindi and not from this office at this time.

"Besides, I think you are clearly well equipped for a nuclear exchange should such a requirement occur…”

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby RamaY » 21 Dec 2012 04:15

See how great life is when you are home Vivek ji :D

It's wrong to ask you to post more in one day, but that is not the readers' fault.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby BPSingh » 21 Dec 2012 04:39

Does anybody have Vivek's entire scenario in pdf or a word file? I remember some time back some members had put together a file.
It would be great to be able to read this offline on my upcoming long flight :)

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 21 Dec 2012 04:48

RamaY wrote:See how great life is when you are home Vivek ji :D
It's wrong to ask you to post more in one day, but that is not the readers' fault.


:D Your point is taken saar.

BPSingh wrote:Does anybody have Vivek's entire scenario in pdf or a word file? I remember some time back some members had put together a file.
It would be great to be able to read this offline on my upcoming long flight :)


Pretty soon you all will be able to simply buy this as a book from amazon etc. This scenario has been cleaned, expanded and added-to in the novel version. I am submitting the final draft of the novel "Chimera" in first week of January. So it should be out by the second or third week. Overall about 450 pages in 6x9 in format by the looks of it at this time. More information here:

http://mach-five.blogspot.com/2012/12/i ... wn-by.html

Although if your trip is coming up sooner than that, you may want to ask around over here for a PDF copy of the scenario thus far or something! :)

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