Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
asbchakri
BRFite
Posts: 374
Joined: 14 Sep 2007 11:20
Location: Chennai
Contact:

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by asbchakri »

vivek_ahuja wrote:CHINESE CONTROLLED LADDKAH
DAY 4 + 0125 HRS


Group Captain Verma had not gotten very far once on the ground. He had barely landed on the ground when he had been faced down a barrel of an AK-47 held by a Chinese conscript who was shouting his mouth off in Chinese which Verma could not understand. But the hand signs had been clear. He had known that the angry Chinese soldier wielding the assault rifle in his hands from a few meters away had every intention of blowing his head off. However, the only reason he was now sitting in the back of a truck driving down a winding mountain road to the north was because a PLAAF Major and a PLA Captain had arrived on the scene and brought the standoff to an end.

Verma was handcuffed and was being escorted by half a dozen Chinese soldiers including the Major from the PLAAF as they drove down the roads filled with vehicles preparing for the coming day’s ground offensive. The Major sitting across him spoke some broken Hindi, which surprised Verma highly. He had expected some English from the Chinese officer but he got Hindi. Clearly the officer in front of him was from Intelligence. Verma’s only observations were based on what he was seeing out the back of the truck. In addition, he had been told by the Major with a grin on his face that the only reason he was still alive and why he was being driven to the north was because some people from the PLAAF Air Defence Command, Kashgar were particularly interested in meeting him...

I really dread what is in store for Captain Verma :( :(

Overall vivek bhai u really made my day.

err.. is it tooo greedy if i asked for some more... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Mihir.D
BRFite
Posts: 171
Joined: 19 Oct 2007 08:50
Location: Land Of Zero :D !

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Mihir.D »

asbchakri wrote:
I really dread what is in store for Captain Verma :( :(

Overall vivek bhai u really made my day.

err.. is it tooo greedy if i asked for some more... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I won't be surprised if he is rescued by the Garuds :)
Singh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 28
Joined: 30 Jan 2005 12:56
Location: Cardiff, UK

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Singh »

Man you've gotta be roped in by the top brass for sure.
Thanks for making my day too :)
Jayram
BRFite
Posts: 362
Joined: 14 Jan 2003 12:31

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Jayram »

Really did. Awesome. Needed this after the depressing fortnight....
Go Vivek
Chandragupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3469
Joined: 07 Dec 2008 15:26
Location: Kingdom of My Fair Lady

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Chandragupta »

Amazing work, Vivek. Waiting for more! :D
Rupesh
BRFite
Posts: 967
Joined: 05 Jul 2008 19:14
Location: Somewhere in South Central India

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Rupesh »

Vivek.................. Truly Awesome...

Yeh Dil mange more :mrgreen:
aditp
BRFite
Posts: 448
Joined: 15 Jul 2008 07:25
Location: Autoland

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by aditp »

:(( 5 long days and no sight of Vivek yet :(( :((
Vikram_S
BRFite
Posts: 359
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 23:49

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Vikram_S »

to add punch to scenario:

Image
aditp
BRFite
Posts: 448
Joined: 15 Jul 2008 07:25
Location: Autoland

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by aditp »

Bravo Vikram, how did you manage that? Do post more, while Vivek works his plot.
Chinmayanand
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2585
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:01
Location: Mansarovar
Contact:

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Chinmayanand »

Earlier i thought i was reading a novel , but now it feels like watching a tv serial ... kudos to Vikram... these kind of things make it so real...very nice picture :)
Rupesh
BRFite
Posts: 967
Joined: 05 Jul 2008 19:14
Location: Somewhere in South Central India

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Rupesh »

Vikram,

Can u post some pics of brahmos blasting chinese radar's..

TIA

Rupesh
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17169
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Rahul M »

rupesh, that's a pretty famous pic from the 80's IIRC. I doubt vikram can just churn them out on order ! :wink:
I believe you'll find it in the older versions of this thread or any other thread too.
bhavin
BRFite
Posts: 101
Joined: 28 Sep 2005 23:04
Location: A point in three dimensional space

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by bhavin »

Rahul M wrote:rupesh, that's a pretty famous pic from the 80's IIRC. I doubt vikram can just churn them out on order ! :wink:
I believe you'll find it in the older versions of this thread or any other thread too.
Derek Bunce had created some aviation art for Society of Aerospace Studies and are in the aviation art section BR including the above referenced pic. Here is the link - http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... erekBunce/
vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2394
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by vivek_ahuja »

THE VILLAGE OF DOKUNG
SOUTH OF KONGRA LA
SIKKIM
DAY 4 + 0255 HRS (L)


“They are here much earlier than expected.”

“Yes, they are. I should ask them how they managed to pull that off.”

“Probably whacked some Chinese outfit along the way to get here this fast, I bet.” The Colonel in charge of the local Indian Army battalion exclaimed. The SOCOM Lt-Colonel didn’t say anything at all, but simply raised his NV-assisted binoculars to see what appeared like six darkened figures clambering down a whitish clean hill against a green night sky. In the NV the stars were unnaturally bright making the entire visual surreal. But there it was: a sight showing six men coming in view after passing one of the highest mountain peaks in the world undetected by the enemy.

The Lt-Colonel smiled as he put his binoculars down and gazed at the truly massive snow covered peaks in the background. Here were six men coming back after another two weeks out in the arctic cold weather of Tibet operating on their own, and he was tasked at sending them back again after debriefing and rest. These men were the bringers of information for the other small group of RAW officers sitting inside the Colonel’s office and the three officers from the Sikkim section of the DIA.

Kongra-La sits at the tip of northern Sikkim and is approached after moving down the magnificent valleys of the north-south running Yumtang-Chu. The Lt-Colonel’s team had arrived at Dokung on board a Mi-17 piloted that had taken off from a small Army helipad Mangan north of Gangtok at an altitude of 4000 feet and flown northwards down the Ymtang-Chu valley which gradually increased in altitude from 4000 feet right up to 16000 feet when it reached Dokung. The peaks surrounding Kongra-La were above 18000 feet.

The team of six men from SOCOM had walked through these peaks on their way into the plains of Tibet as all other mountain passes were guarded by the PLA. They had walked through the most brutally cold winds and totally barren and rocky terrain before entering the worse weather of the Tibetan plateau where there were little obstructions to the arctic type winds that easily numbed the hands and arms that were exposed to it within seconds.

There was no food to be salvaged in the barren terrain of Tibet until one went hundreds of kilometres north into the fertile Gyantse valley, which was extremely well populated by PLA soldiers at the moment. All food items had to be carried along by the team members and they had to be carried by the soldiers entering the region, which put tremendous strain on the time actually spent inside the region. And there was no possibility of aerial reinforcements as no helicopters could clear the mountain passes without detection and could not clear the mountain peaks because of the altitude limitations on payload capacity. There could be no local support for the soldiers that were worth trusting given the large numbers of Chinese informers amongst the local populace. Because of all this, most of the time for the teams was spent only on the actual ingress and egress to the target region.

Unfortunately, that was something that could not be helped until things changed four days ago. Now the two countries were officially at war, and all bets were off. The SOCOM teams already in Tibet were being recalled across the board for redeployment to actual locations of action rather than covert operations. For SOCOM Team Five, that meant a new adventure that was designed to take them over the peaks of Kongra-La once again and then sixty seven kilometres east...

As he watched the members of the team approaching the foot of peak near the base, the Lt-Colonel thought about the fascinating history behind these exact locations. Colonel Younghusband and his small group of officers and soldiers had travelled across these very peaks back in the beginning of the previous century as Great Britain had attempted to bring Tibet under its sphere of influence. That attempt north of Kongra-La had failed as a result of political resistance by the Tibetan officials even when they faced an undeniable truth of military imbalance. Their stubbornness had seen Lord Curzon, the then Viceroy to India, dispatching a force of men under the command of Brigadier Macdonald and a political mission still under Younghusband to try and force the issue by military means. It was back then that the rabble of peasants that stood opposite the Gurkha and Sikh Battalions under Macdonald were soundly defeated and massacred on his way to Lhasa.

That rabble of Tibetan soldiers, mostly impressed peasants, were sufficiently superior in numbers that it forced Macdonald to eventually use of Brigade worth of troops to force his way to Lhasa. A Brigade consisting of the legendary Gurkha and Sikh battalions had been needed against the peasant forces simply because they were much larger in numbers, and here we are today, facing one of the world’s largest land armies across the same terrain...The Lt-Colonel thought to himself as he pondered his own military reality a century later.

The bottom line was that the Chinese were bringing down three Divisions worth down from the staging area in Gyantse towards the Chumbi valley. If assembled and dispersed throughout the peaks in the Chumbi valley, it gave the Chinese ample possibilities of movement of freedom. They could move down the valley into Bhutan and then towards the foothills that would bring tremendous pressure on the Indian logistical support that ran east from there towards the far flung border war zones of Arunachal Pradesh even if they never really get close enough to take anything or hold anything of material value. It also meant that the Indian Army would have to divert the crucial concentrated forces of XXXIII Corps to cover an enormous border area, thereby removing any possibilities of counterattack once the Chinese forces were defeated. In military jargon, this amounted to a classic spoiling attack.

The only real option for the Indian side was to nip the threat to the Sikkim-Bhutan region in the bud. The weakness in the Chinese plans was the single long arterial route that ran from Gynatse to the Chumbi valley. While the local PLA forces were technically independent of this supply route based on the far superior local infrastructure development inside the fertile Chumbi valley, there was no way a multi-Division force could be resupplied from local resource alone. These supplies had to come down long weakly supported convoys along the Gynatse-Jelap-La route, and that was where they had to be stopped...

By pulling off a miracle, that is...the Lt-Colonel thought as he walked towards the line of men trudging into the base camp with beards grown while out in the field and looking completely exhausted but still having a smug smile on their faces: some PLA squad had probably been whacked on their way back onto Indian soil. They would be whacking many more if things went according to plan. The Lt-Colonel ordered other soldiers nearby to assist the team members to get back into civilization, in a manner of speaking, before ordering the Major in charge of the team to get some rest before coming in for a debriefing with the intelligence teams. As the team of six disappeared into the camp, the Battalion Commander walked over to where the Lt-Colonel was standing before he finally said what he was thinking:

“I wonder what that chap Macdonald would have thought of this job.” This brought a surprised smile on the face of the SOCOM Colonel, realizing that the Battalion Commander was well read on his area of operations as he was.

“I was thinking the same thing. But all he had to do was face those Tibetan peasants armed with bloody Matchlocks while he used field artillery and crack alpine troops. He still ended up needing a Brigade of men and thousands more people maintaining a threadbare logistical artery on a three hundred kilometre march to Lhasa. People ask us now why we didn’t go in Tibet in 1950 to protect the Tibetans when the Chinese invaded. Guess what, back then the Chinese Army was a 250 Division force armed with experienced troops from the Second World War of which they had many Divisions tasked with the invasion of Tibet alone. We couldn’t even spare a Brigade back then from the other requirements of the nation to help create an expeditionary force. But that was fifty years ago. Now the things are different.” The Lt-Colonel concluded. The Battalion commander though, was not that sure:

“Perhaps. We still have less than a Brigade guarding these northern passes. When General Suman decides to divert some units from his Corps to help me protect these northern passes better, then I might feel better about any adventures beyond these peaks.” The Colonel emphatically waved towards the darkened peaks north of his camp. The SOCOM Colonel, was just as dismissive:

“I don’t think you have to worry about these peaks, sir. We are monitoring the situation back in Delhi. The Chinese are aiming for the killing blow, not land grab. They have a limited time span to do whatever it is that they are trying to do. The last thing they want is unnecessary diversion of resources for tracts of land they cannot in the long run maintain. These peaks are natural watersheds. What they want is strategic diversion at the very least and a suffocation of IV Corps as a best outcome. We have to deny them their goals and achieve ours. Anything less than that is a waste of resources from our side just like it is from their side.

If they are looking for a killing blow through Sikkim, then so are we.”
vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2394
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by vivek_ahuja »

HAL AIRPORT
BANGALORE
DAY 4 + 0355 HRS (L)


Everybody in the room sprang to attention as the Major-General and the Air-marshal walked in. The latter glanced over to the assembled group of Squadron-Leaders and Flight-Lieutenants standing around a wall covered with maps and tables covered with papers and saw the tired look on their faces. But he didn’t give a damn about the last part as he turned towards the officer in charge of the other officers in the room. The latter was wearing the green flight suit just like the others in the room, but had three thick stripes on his shoulders. The Major-General was blunt and to the point:

“Tell me you can do this.”

That didn’t leave much choice for Wing Commander Dutt. Luckily for him his answer matched his options: “Yes, sir. We can do it.” Barely...he didn’t add.

“Good. When can you leave?” the Air-Marshal continued the questions.

“Well, we have six machines that first need to be airlifted to Leh. Then the equipment, supplies, weapons and manpower to be moved there. We have all the stuff we need ready. It’s a question of how fast we can airlift them into the region.” Dutt replied.

“I have one, and only one, IL-76 that I can spare for this airlift for the next two days, and that too can be pulled away if the situation demands it. After that you and your men will have to squeeze in what supplied are coming into the region either through ground convoys or airlifts. I don’t need to remind you of the kind of heavy attention Leh has been receiving from the Chinese and their bloody missiles. Leh has been closed down twice now in as many days. Its been opened again so we are flying in what we can before the Chinese realize its operating again and try to shut it down.” The Air Marshal said. The Major-General continued:
“True. But we are willing to give you and your boys a try. This particular problem has been bugging our field commanders for years now and in your unit we have the solution to the problem, but this machine in your command is far from deployed in the field and the war is happening now. Your testing and evaluation period has been cut short. You said you have six machines in your command. Does that include or exclude the TD versions?”

Includes. Sir.” Dutt replied, and the three senior civilian HAL employees in the room looked at each other but didn’t say anything. It was way beyond that stage now in any case.

“You sure they are ready for operations?” the General asked after looking at the faces of the civilians in the room.

“Sir, if you are asking whether we have tinkered out every issue we had on the aircraft then of course we haven’t. But they will work within the parameters we have fixed for ourselves. That is exactly why I am taking my flight evaluation and testing team pilots with me and not your regular Army Aviation boys. We are the only people who know at this point how far the limits are and how much further we can push them. We are now about to sit here flying tests while the real war needs us and is raging out there. Get me and my unit to the warzone and we will contribute our part.”

“Noted. Very well. Get your requirements listed out. Your IL-76 will land at nine this morning. Also, before I forget...” The Air Marshal said before he pulled into his coat pocket and removed what appeared to be a small cloth circle about three inches in diameter and handed it to Dutt. On it was stitched the background of the Himalayan peaks with white tops and brown bases and on top was the silhouette of a helicopter gunship in black. Around the outer perimeter of the circle was stitched: “199 HU: Himalayan Gunners”. Dutt was surprised enough to look back up at the two senior officers next to him. The Air Marshal continued:

“That came into my office an hour ago. Now your group has a name. Try to live up to it. Show us what your machine is capable of doing, but more importantly, show it to the Chinese...”
vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2394
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by vivek_ahuja »

DAULAT BEG OLDI (DBO)
JUST SOUTH OF THE KARAKORAM PASS
NORTHERN LADDAKH
DAY 4 + 0515 HRS (L)


The port engine rotors sprang to life and started rotating even as a puff of smoke left the exhausts as soon as the senior aircraft ground handler standing in front of the aircraft began moving his right hand in a circle to inform the pilots to start up engines. Moments later the second engine sprang to life and the noise started picking up. The pilot and the co-pilot of the AN-32 looked from either sides of their cockpit to see the engines running properly as they picked up RPM. The ground crewman gave the thumbs up to indicate a trouble free start up of the two engines before saluting off and moving away. The aircraft now began rolling towards the end of the runway to conduct a liftoff to Leh.

The aircraft cabin was mostly empty except for the three wounded jawans lying on stretchers with attending medics. The AN-32 was conducting a flight in the darkness mostly because of the extreme nature of the requirement. The pilots were wearing NVGs inside the cockpit and the runway was marked with IR strobes that would be shut down and removed after they had lifted off lest they be used by the Chinese for target identification and orientation. Daulat Beg Oldi was one of the very high altitude airstrips in the world, but was still an object of routine activity during the day with flight coming and leaving. But not today and not now...

The Chinese were very much within artillery range of the airstrip where the AN-32 was now attempting to begin take-off. Down to the east, along the Chip-chap river valley, the enemy was within sight for the Brigade of Indian troops defending this crucial region to the east of DBO along the riverbed and to the north along the Karakoram pass. With the Chinese forces poised to launch their attacks, the atmosphere was tense on the ground.

As the AN-32 conducted a turn about the nose undercarriage to align itself with the runway, the two pilots looked instinctively to the side of the cockpit towards the east where a silent dark set of peaks were silhouetted against the starlit night sky. They could not see anything but had been told by the local Army personnel that the Chinese were poised to attack DBO from the east with a Division worth of troops. Because the Indian Government had fallen for the Chinese diplomatic feint over the past few weeks and failed to deploy the Army completely as required, the Indian side was still running in supply flights and reinforcements were rolling north from around Shyok and then northwards into the border regions. They needed every extra minute that they could get. But for the Chinese side losing air superiority over the Aksai Chin to the IAF by the minute, they could not afford to wait an extra minute. All this meant that the ground action would start and start soon...

A few minutes later the Brigadier Adesara and his group of Battalion Cos watched the last AN-32 to leave DBO taking off into the darkness of the night with all strobe lights switched off even as a hint of reddish skies began to appear over the eastern skies. Daylight was approaching...

“Movement on Hill-243!” the radio crackled to life.
asbchakri
BRFite
Posts: 374
Joined: 14 Sep 2007 11:20
Location: Chennai
Contact:

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by asbchakri »

vivek_ahuja wrote:HAL AIRPORT
BANGALORE
DAY 4 + 0355 HRS (L)


“True. But we are willing to give you and your boys a try. This particular problem has been bugging our field commanders for years now and in your unit we have the solution to the problem, but this machine in your command is far from deployed in the field and the war is happening now. Your testing and evaluation period has been cut short. You said you have six machines in your command. Does that include or exclude the TD versions?”
Includes. Sir.” Dutt replied, and the three senior civilian HAL employees in the room looked at each other but didn’t say anything. It was way beyond that stage now in any case.

“You sure they are ready for operations?” the General asked after looking at the faces of the civilians in the room.

“Sir, if you are asking whether we have tinkered out every issue we had on the aircraft then of course we haven’t. But they will work within the parameters we have fixed for ourselves. That is exactly why I am taking my flight evaluation and testing team pilots with me and not your regular Army Aviation boys. We are the only people who know at this point how far the limits are and how much further we can push them. We are now about to sit here flying tests while the real war needs us and is raging out there. Get me and my unit to the warzone and we will contribute our part.”

“.....
On it was stitched the background of the Himalayan peaks with white tops and brown bases and on top was the silhouette of a helicopter gunship in black. Around the outer perimeter of the circle was stitched: “199 HU: Himalayan Gunners”. Dutt was surprised enough to look back up at the two senior officers next to him. The Air Marshal continued:

“That came into my office an hour ago. Now your group has a name. Try to live up to it. Show us what your machine is capable of doing, but more importantly, show it to the Chinese...”
Do i sense the LCH is being pressed into action !!! :D :D

Brilliant :twisted: :twisted:

Keep sending them Vivek bhai :)
disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 8264
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by disha »

asbchakri wrote:Do i sense the LCH is being pressed into action !!! :D :D

Brilliant :twisted: :twisted:

Keep sending them Vivek bhai :)
Or it could be LCA. I remember only LCA having TD versions. And TD1, TD2, PV1-3 currently means we have 5 LCAs [not sure where the 6th one comes in]

As a request, please do not embed writer's post in your quotes. This will allow them to go back and edit their posts in case they made a mistake.
aditp
BRFite
Posts: 448
Joined: 15 Jul 2008 07:25
Location: Autoland

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by aditp »

disha wrote:
asbchakri wrote:Do i sense the LCH is being pressed into action !!! :D :D

Brilliant :twisted: :twisted:

Keep sending them Vivek bhai :)
Or it could be LCA. I remember only LCA having TD versions. And TD1, TD2, PV1-3 currently means we have 5 LCAs [not sure where the 6th one comes in]

As a request, please do not embed writer's post in your quotes. This will allow them to go back and edit their posts in case they made a mistake.
The scenario mentions Army Aviation guys. They do not operate LCAs. Moreover you do not need Il-76 / An-32 to transport LCAs. They can get there under their own power. You probably know that LCA is currently under High altitude, cold weather testing at Leh. DBO is just a stone throw from there. Plus to stop the enemy's ground campaign, you need CAS that a gunship can provide efficiently and a delta wing fighter like LCA would have much difficulty in providing. LCA is primarily meant for air defence.
disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 8264
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by disha »

aditp wrote:The scenario mentions Army Aviation guys. They do not operate LCAs. Moreover you do not need Il-76 / An-32 to transport LCAs. They can get there under their own power. You probably know that LCA is currently under High altitude, cold weather testing at Leh. DBO is just a stone throw from there. Plus to stop the enemy's ground campaign, you need CAS that a gunship can provide efficiently and a delta wing fighter like LCA would have much difficulty in providing. LCA is primarily meant for air defence.
Of course - yes. Though I would like to think that Vivek bhai made an error and putting ALH in Leh when I really want to see LCA kicking some a*s*.
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17169
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Rahul M »

On it was stitched the background of the Himalayan peaks with white tops and brown bases and on top was the silhouette of a helicopter gunship in black.
disha, how could you miss this ?
also, it's the LCH not the vanilla ALH, the only assault helo in the world to have been designed to fight in the mountains ! :wink:

vivek, what's the timeline ? tentatively, what's the date ? 6 LCH in all would mean late 2011 at the earliest.
won't the first LCA sqdn be around by then ?
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17169
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Rahul M »

LCH in the himalayas !

this is from andy b by email. nice !

Image
aditp
BRFite
Posts: 448
Joined: 15 Jul 2008 07:25
Location: Autoland

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by aditp »

Indeed Rahul, thats the aim of the LCH. However, in the rarified atmosphere of the Laddakh region, I am not sure how much difference will be able to make, given that any PLA Military action in the region would certainly be made with adequate no of man portable SAMs. The LCH may not be able to maintain / attain the required altitude to stay out of range (of the SAMs) and yet provide CAS to the IA. Not to say that the program should be shelved or anything such. Just to say that there is no other option than to seriously strenthen the army especially in the border areas with decisive technological and resource advantage over the chincoms. If the dhotiwallas dont wake up even now (after Mumbai, kabul etc) and provide the armed forces with the long list of equipment delayed for years, God save the country.
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17169
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Rahul M »

aditp, plz check the back issues of the china mil thread. or check vivek's posts outside of this thread.
relevant threads are war in tibet, china mil watch, Indian mil aviation, jag production line......

much of what you say has been discussed threadbare.
regards.
vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2394
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by vivek_ahuja »

Image
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17169
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Rahul M »

this was sent by Andy B over email.
Image
nice !


and this one is by another member inspired by Andy B's work.
Image
vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2394
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by vivek_ahuja »

EAST OF DAULAT BEG OLDI (D.B.O.)
LADDAKH
DAY 4 + 0525 HRS (L)


“Incoming fire! Everybody down!”

The first shells screamed overhead and landed on the airstrip at DBO at sunlight on the fourth day of the war and the first one of the ground war in Laddakh. On point on the Indian side was a reinforced Mountain Infantry Brigade under Brigadier Adesara. On the Chinese side the unit composition was unclear but the Heron UAVs had verified unit strengths upwards of division levels. Adesara had specialized counter-artillery MLRS systems under his command but little offensive artillery that was still deploying in the field. The Chinese counterpart to Adesara had over two hundred guns for this narrow sector alone. Adesara had a squadron of BMP-IIs under his command and a platoon of T-72Ms. His Chinese counterpart had over a regiment of T-99 MBTs and other assorted vehicles designed to utilize the vast open plains of this region of Laddakh to full advantage.

The sunrays streaked through the dust clouds that now enveloped the entire DBO airstrip. A dark brown haze filled the skies even as small fireballs continued to impact the flat airstrip and turn it into a lunar landscape. The thundering noises were coupled with the screeching of the shells going over the heads of the Indian soldiers along the forward defensive line east of the airstrip. The shockwaves rippled through the ground and went under the feet of the Indian soldiers waiting out the thunder in their hand dug trenches.

Brigadier Adesara’s staff made up of Majors and Captains was already at work in their forward command posts. Adesara himself was not at the command post. He and his Second-in-Command or 2IC, Colonel Sudarshan, along with several radiomen, were climbing the gravel covered surface of the only dominant hill east of the airstrip that lay on the middle of the plain north of the Chip-Chap river. Every step taken was treacherous as each rock was seemingly free of the ground below, just waiting to be stepped on. Every slip led to a small landslide of gravel and rocks along with the unfortunate soul who went with it. Nevertheless, Adesara and his men had been here for a long time to have learnt the art of quick climbing on shifting terra. He and his entourage were along with the Captain and the two radiomen that were maintaining the OP on “The Citadel”, as the hill had come to be known among the Brigade officers.

Adesara quickly moved behind some boulders and lay up even as he looked back to the see the DBO airstrip being pummelled into the earth by the might of the Chinese Divisional artillery. To his south he saw the cold frozen waters of the Chip-Chap river and directly over the boulders to his east he saw the moving dust columns approaching the LAC...

Adesara picked up the binoculars hanging from his neck and looked through it to see the contents of the dust clouds. Colonel Sudarshan did the same a moment later. In this region of Laddakh, the terrain was flat enough and covered with dust enough that incoming columns of vehicles were visible over very large distances. In this case they were seeing the dust clouds moving out from behind the first prominent hill line on the Chinese side of the LAC which was marked as Hill-243 on the Indian maps, and it was over ten kilometres away from the Citadel. Adesara and Sudarshan were quickly focusing their binoculars to see a clear description of the enemy forces...

“What do you think?” Adesara asked without looking away from his binoculars.
“Looks like a maximum level effort on vehicles. That’s what...fifteen...sixteen T-99s in that first wave and another twelve in the second?” Sudarshan said even as he peered more closely through his binoculars.
“Just about. Add another two dozen ZBDs to that total. And they are about ten clicks out.” Adesara continued. Then he looked at his radioman who handed him his R/T call with Division C3I:

“BLUE-LIMA-ONE to BLUE-LIMA-COMMAND, we are seeing regiment level Chinese armoured forces approaching the LAC at ten clicks. We need digital eyes on target. Over”
“Roger, BLUE-LIMA-ONE. Digital eyeball on target” was the immediate reply.

Adesara looked over to a Captain that had come along with them who now opened a battlefield computer on the rocky surface behind the rocks and then placed a small tripod nearby and flicked a control switch. This opened up a small circular net over the tripod around a central receiver. The battlefield satellite uplink hardware was now deployed. Next he activated the hardware on the computer and a few seconds later the first visuals of the large moving dust clouds as seen from two thousand feet above the ground were available on screen. Adesara and Sudarshan slid along the gravel and came up behind the Captain to see the Chinese tank movements on the screen. Sudarshan was quick to spot the terrain and orient himself:

“Okay, here we are. They are here and moving along this axis” he pointed on screen...“That would bring them along this axis towards our first infantry lines here.” Adesara nodded before shouting over the sounds of the shells exploding on the runway behind them:
“All right, Ravi. It’s your dance. How do you want to deploy your tanks?”

“The Chinese first and second tank waves are all moving along the northern bank of the river towards this airstrip. My tanks are also deployed along the northern banks. My T-72 platoon is in hull down positions here. They will engage the Chinese first wave along with support from your anti-tank boys. All my BMPS are amphibious. I am taking them across the river and then east.” Sudarshan continued and Adesara nodded. It was what he was thinking as well. But he had a word of caution for his 2IC:

“Just remember that your T-72 boys are outnumbered four to one against the Chinese first tank wave. And those are T-99s they are driving. Even with my support, I don’t expect to be able to hold them off for too long. So don’t wander off. When you hit the Chinese, I will pull back to my second line of defences and then reengage. That’s your cue to fall back to your secondary line, wherever you put it. The only way we are going to survive this day is with manoeuvre warfare, not frontal attacks. Hit and move! You follow me?”

“Perfectly, sir.”
“Okay, then. I...” Adesara was stopped midsentence by one of the OP soldiers:

“Incoming fire! Take cover!”

The single shell slammed into the reverse face of the Citadel on the eastern side and sent a fireball rising into the sky. Dust and gravel rained down on the hunkered group of men at the OP on the tip of the hill. As the smoke and dust settled, Adesara looked spat out the gravel in his mouth even as he saw the others dusting themselves off. One of the radiomen shouted out of shock:
“What the hell was that?!!”

“A ranging shot! They know where we are and are trying to knock us out. Next will be the barrage. Time for us to go” Sudarshan shouted even as the ringing in his ear stopped. Adesara and his command group was already packing up and moving out. A few moments later they were again moving down the gravel slopes of the Citadel.

“How on earth did they know exactly where we were?” one of the Captains said as he balanced himself against a landslide of gravel.

“We are not the only ones using UAVs today, soldier...”
vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2394
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by vivek_ahuja »

HEADQUARTERS, XIV CORPS
LEH
LADDAKH
DAY 4 + 0555 HRS (L)


“They have opened up the entire front this morning, haven’t they? So what’s the latest estimate?” Lt-Gen Gupta asked the assembled group of Colonels and Brigadiers from his command staff as he sat back into his chair and looked over to the map of the Laddakh theatre of operations.

“Initial estimates are still forming up, sir. But based on what we know now the Chinese have opened up four major avenues of attack into Laddakh. The northernmost sector is near Daulat Beg Oldi. Here the Chinese are moving along the northern banks of the Chip-Chap river bank and their threat axis is heading towards the airstrip there from between the south of the Karakoram pass and north of the river. Brigadier Adesara is attempting to hold the Chinese advance with a reinforced Brigade and some armour but is heavily outnumbered by Division level Chinese assault forces, heavy on tanks. I...” the GSO was interrupted midsentence by Gupta:

“So what support do we have for Adesara out there?”

“We are working on that right now. Most of our forces hadn’t reached him before the attacks started as a result of our political restrictions until two days ago. Most of the reinforcements are moving along the Shyok river banks heading north towards the Galwan river sector and then northwards to DBO from there as of two hours ago but have since been bogged down by Chinese artillery and taking losses in the open terrain. The airstrip at DBO has been destroyed so we cannot fly in reinforcements. The only other option is air and artillery support and we are deploying every last gun we can scramble to assist Brigadier Adesara and his men.”

Gupta leaned back and rubbed his eyes as he cursed the political imbeciles who had brought them to this point over the last few weeks despite the repeated warnings. But apart from that he knew that everything that could be done now was being done, so he nodded back to his GSO to continue...

“In the central sector the Chinese have opened up the front along the Galwan river valley and attempting to move eastwards in order to cut off the only land supply route to Adesara’s Brigade and the Karakoram pass from our side of the border. We have another Mountain Infantry Brigade deployed Galwan and Hacho rivers tasked with keeping this land route open.

“Then further south the Chinese are attacking the Brigade level forces deployed along the Chang Chenmo river valley west of the Kongka-La and east of Shyok. Here we believe they are trying to take Shyok to sever the supply route to the Galwan and Karakoram Brigades by taking the only logistical node point east of Leh.

“Finally, further to the south, we have reported attacks against the XV Corps Brigades deployed between Chushul, Rezang-La and along the LAC near Demchok. The idea here, we believe is to drive upwards from the Demchok region and roll up the defences at Rezang-La and then Chushul to the north.” The GSO concluded and looked back at Lt-Gen Gupta who had been silently listening to the details. Then he finally spoke up and went into the decision making role:

“Okay, people. Listen up. Here’s what we are going to do. Order the ground reinforcements moving up to Adesara to stop and redeploy to assist the forces attempting to defend the supply route from Galwan to the Chang-Chenmo river region. We have to keep this line of supply open at all costs. In the meantime, divert any available air and ground support to Adesara to help him wither the Chinese assaults and hold the Karakoram pass and the DBO airstrip. If any one of these sectors fall, the entire line will get rolled up or starved for supplies and then overrun. We cannot let a repeat of 62 happen again. Contact the IAF and tell them to release their ground support aircraft for a maximum level ground interdiction campaign.

At least that’s one mistake we won’t repeat this time...”
vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2394
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by vivek_ahuja »

THE “CITADEL” DEFENSIVE LINES
EAST OF DAULAT BEG OLDI (D.B.O.)
LADDAKH
DAY 4 + 0605 HRS (L)


“Six kilometres and closing, sir” the Captain warned Adesara who was busy organizing his defensive lines. The infantry were in their trenches just north of the citadel and aligned north-south and all weapons were loaded and ready. The T-72 platoon was deployed further north and in hull down positions in open terrain that gave their turrets a wider field of view. The hatches were closed and the gunners had identified their targets and waiting for them to get sufficiently in range.

Adesara looked around to see his men hunkered down and their INSAS rifles aimed outwards with each soldier looking down the sights. He then looked behind him to see the airstrip still being pummelled into dust by Chinese artillery. For the latter, he had a special welcome that was already being executed and now out of his direct control. But the ground battle now approaching him was all his to command...

“Five kilometres...” the Captain shouted as he kept an eye on the very slowly advancing T-99 tanks of the Chinese first wave. The Chinese gunners were identifying targets too...
Now Adesara went active:

“Milan crews forward!”
Nitesh
BRFite
Posts: 903
Joined: 23 Mar 2008 22:22
Location: Bangalore
Contact:

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Nitesh »

vivek_ahuja wrote: “Milan crews forward!”
Vivek saar thanks for the triple post 8)
Can we see Nag in action?
AdityaM
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2025
Joined: 30 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by AdityaM »

Hate to spoil the party, but will we also hear about chinese engineering artificial flash floods that cause heavy civilian damage & even disrupt indian military supply lines.....this is a sure-shot scenario.
they have already live-tested it before.
aditp
BRFite
Posts: 448
Joined: 15 Jul 2008 07:25
Location: Autoland

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by aditp »

Its high time, vivekji sent some help for Brig Adesara. :((
vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2394
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by vivek_ahuja »

Sorry for the delay folks, but just arrived back to the motherland after several days of travel. Will resume posts later today. Also with BR under attack from cyber-jehadis from across the border, the delay has been longer thanks to my inability to log on to the website. Nevertheless, with both these issues now resolved, the war against the Chinese continues...

Thanks.

-Vivek
andy B
BRFite
Posts: 1677
Joined: 05 Jun 2008 11:03
Location: Gora Paki

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by andy B »

^^^

Vivek what's happening with the book mate???

I am currently in desh and I intend to leave with a copy of yar book...period :evil:

Can you please let me know so that I can make arrangement to get it please.
Chinmayanand
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2585
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:01
Location: Mansarovar
Contact:

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Chinmayanand »

I have uploaded the current scenario by Vivek on ifile in doc and pdf formats ...here are the links for anyone who is interested ...
http://ifile.it/rvxj3uh doc file
http://ifile.it/65sviwu pdf file
Mihir.D
BRFite
Posts: 171
Joined: 19 Oct 2007 08:50
Location: Land Of Zero :D !

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Mihir.D »

Vivek,

Time for another post mate.
When is your book coming out ? Or is it as delayed as the GOI response to the attack on Mumbai ?

Cheers.
ovein
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 48
Joined: 21 Sep 2008 16:53
Contact:

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by ovein »

Vivekji

I know you are awfully busy and reasearching a lot. But Dil hain ki manta nahin. :).
Jagan
Webmaster BR
Posts: 3032
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Earth @ Google.com
Contact:

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Jagan »

durgesh wrote:I have uploaded the current scenario by Vivek on ifile in doc and pdf formats ...here are the links for anyone who is interested ...
http://ifile.it/rvxj3uh doc file
http://ifile.it/65sviwu pdf file

Durgesh - Nice job - But Please put a copyright notice in Vivek's Name and possible a contact email into the PDF

Right now it does not have any information on the author and there is potential for it to be misused.
Chinmayanand
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2585
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:01
Location: Mansarovar
Contact:

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Chinmayanand »

Jagan wrote:
Durgesh - Nice job - But Please put a copyright notice in Vivek's Name and possible a contact email into the PDF

Right now it does not have any information on the author and there is potential for it to be misused.
Thanks for reminding me about that.I shall do that but I don't know Vivek's email id.
ksmahesh
BRFite
Posts: 209
Joined: 10 Jan 2007 17:55
Location: Mt Everest - its the coolest one

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by ksmahesh »

http://www.upiasia.com/Security/2008/12 ... nage/3561/
India ready to avenge Mumbai carnage


By Hari Sud
Column: Abroad View
Toronto, ON, Canada, —


Terror attacks directed from across a border can be seen as premeditated murder. Indian, Interpol, British and U.S. investigating teams have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the attackers of Mumbai on Nov. 26 were Pakistani citizens and came from the Pakistani port of Karachi.

Still to be established is the complicity of Pakistan itself. The government has called the terrorists “non-state actors” in an attempt to save the Pakistani security services from embarrassing revelations.

There was an immediate call for retribution in India, but Britain and the United States persuaded India to give the Pakistani government time to act internally. India relented, but kept the battle-axe ready lest the Pakistanis failed to take the friendly advice.

Indian nerves were further frayed by the revelation that additional terrorists stayed on the mother ship when ten of them headed to Mumbai. They could be hiding anywhere on the western Indian coast and could unleash fresh terror anytime. That again prompted calls for Indian retribution.

With India ready to mount commando raids to Muzaffarabad in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir and to Muridke in Lahore, the Pakistanis went ahead and arrested a few of the masterminds of the Mumbai terror strike. It was a clever ploy to calm the United States and follow U.N. directives.

These arrests did not impress India, however. The lone surviving terrorist in Mumbai is leading Indian and U.S. investigators to new revelations. Had he not been taken alive, the Indian case would have been weak; his survival has been the key to the investigations. He is the one that pointed an accusing finger at Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence and the Lashkar- e-Taiba terror group.

The Pakistani action robbed India of an opportunity to grab the key leaders of the terror outfit, but did nothing to the Pakistani army or intelligence agency. If left untouched, soon they will pick another target in India.

The Pakistanis today have few options. They must dismantle the terror and jihadi infrastructure and the ISI’s jihadi mindset. Otherwise they will face retribution.

Here is a possible scenario:

It is an air action day. The Pakistani air force, noting that India is hours away from action, sends its F-16s on a pre-emptive strike on forward Indian air bases. The F-16s find their mark on two Indian airfields but their major strike, destined for New Delhi and Agra, fizzles out.

These strikes are stopped dead in their tracks, with half a dozen strike planes shot down over New Delhi skies. The strike bound for Agra, which is a major Sukhoi and air defense base, comes via Rajasthan. It is a big error on Pakistan’s part. Although the F-16s have the endurance to do the job, they are helpless in front of Indian Sukhoi fighters.

With nowhere to run, they fall victim to the highly superior Sukhois. None of the F-16s return to tell the tale. Within hours of the outbreak of hostilities, half of Pakistan’s F-16s fighters have hit the dust.

Now it is India’s turn to turn the heat on. There is no need to hit Pakistan’s air bases after its losses. The Indian objectives are the training bases for the ISI and Lashkar-e-Toiba in Karachi, Lahore and Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.

The Indian navy, having sailed close to Pakistani waters a few days earlier, unleashes the same attack it executed in December, 1971. It attacks port facilities in Karachi, this time with 300-kilometer-range BrahMos missiles. The fires in Karachi port are reminiscent of 1971.

The Pakistani navy comes out in the open and fights a bitter battle. Two Indian destroyers are hit with Exocet missiles, putting them out of action. In return, two Pakistani submarines and four destroyers are sunk. The Pakistani navy begins retiring toward Gawadar port, hoping that India will give chase and draw the Chinese into action, but India is in no mood to pursue them.

With victories in the air and sea, India begins the task of leveling the terror camps in Pakistani-occupied Kashmir, Lahore and Karachi. First is the Muridke terror camp near Lahore. By the end of the day it is repeatedly attacked. Civilian causalities are inevitable; it is the price they have to pay for so many attacks on civilians in India.

Next to be leveled are known terror camps in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. Surprisingly, the Pakistani air force does not intervene, having lost its will to defend the terrorists. It must preserve its strength for a second day of strikes on Indian economic targets.

As night falls, raids on each other’s forward bases continue without great success. The second day of battle will be crucial for both India and Pakistan.

On the second day, the Pakistani air force’s air armada of 30 planes in a well-rehearsed maneuver takes off to cripple India’s offshore oil drilling platform in the Arabian Sea. If successful, India’s domestic oil supply will be cut. Unfortunately for the Pakistanis, the Indian air base at Jamanagar stands in the way. This airbase is Pakistan’s first priority, and waves of Pakistani planes come to attack it, damaging the base, runway and control tower.

The ground air defense performs well. They keep the Pakistanis from making repeated runs over the base. At the same time an Indian trap specifically set to destroy the returning Pakistani planes is sprung. Lacking fuel and ammunition for close combat, they fall prey to India’s newly acquired beyond visual range strike. None of the attacking planes escapes back to Pakistan. Ejecting pilots are captured.

The Pakistani planes advancing to the Indian oil-drilling platform are now without a fighter escort, and are met with another iron fist. India’s naval air arm and shore-based fighters take up the fight. With nowhere to run and completely off-course, they ditch themselves in the sea. The Indian navy picks up a few surviving pilots.

India then goes for Pakistan’s ISI headquarters in Rawalpindi. It is the most difficult exercise for India in this garrison town, with a major airbase to its credit. Still, the attack must be executed even with great loss of life and planes. It is India’s stern message to the Pakistani army.

Six Jaguar fighter-bombers, equipped with bunker buster bombs and missiles, take off from a forward airbase in Punjab in late afternoon. They are escorted by a flight of MIGs and Mirage fighter-bombers. In all 18 planes are involved. Their mission: to attack the ISI headquarters. This is a four-hour mission fraught with danger. Remaining F-16s from Sargodha and Rawalpindi air bases will make this mission difficult. If unsuccessful, it will be a major morale boost to the Pakistanis.

This mission meets the anticipated results; although three attacking MIGs, two Mirages and a surveillance plane are downed, the Jaguars find their mark. Two of the attacking Jaguars are also hit by ground fire. The remaining four reach their target and unleash their napalm and bunker buster bombs over the ISI headquarters. When they escape, it is a smoldering ruin with its underground command center torn out like a can of beans opened violently. India’s No. 1 enemy and the terrorists’ headquarters has been given a deathblow.

Day two is also highly successful for India. With its basic objectives complete India waits for the next Pakistani move.

(To be continued. Part II scenario – Israelis take the fight to Pakistan)
Post Reply