Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 13 Oct 2010 16:02


Squadron leader Umesh Bhandorkar finished his pre flight go around the IL-76 and climbed into the flight deck. The 5000 km journey to Malaysia did not bother him not the load of a full battery of recently inducted Akash surface to air missiles system, all safed for transit. The worry point was close to 500 km of his flight path that will take him very close to Indonesian air space and their newly inducted fleet of flankers. His mission was classified to highest level and once clear of Indian air space they will come under strict emission control and route selected carefully to stay as far away as commercial air corridors that cris- cross the region.

Six flankers of latest variant equipped wit AESA will ride shot gun out of Car Nicobar and Mig 29k S from the carrier will form up on them when they transit the sensitive air space close to Indonesian /Australian shores.

Phalcon support was expected Car Nicobar onwards and that was a comforting thought. He really did not expect direct confrontation, but yesterdays shooting down of two Indonesian F-16 by the navy complicated the situation, to say the least.

-Tower – mule lead – ready to go –over
-Mule –lead – cleared to start engines – over
-mule lead to mule 2 3 4 – cleared to start engines
One by one the Umesh closed the ignition circuits of the four engines in text book sequence 2 3 1 4 and waited till all the rpm was in green band –exit temperature was stable and thrust level stabilized at 35% maximum –flaps set to 5 degree for norml take off configuration

- Tower mule lead – request clearance to taxi – straight out departure
- Mule lead – your flight is cleared to taxi – use taxi way zuly alpha lima bravo – contact when in position for take off
- Copy that tower – cleared to taxi – over
-mule 2 3 4 – follow at 50 meters interval – do not exceed 30 kmph taxi speed repeat do not exceed 30 kmph – take off at 300 second interval – form on me at 4000 meters over

Umesh clicked off the parking brake – increased power to 60% percent as he released the main brake and then quickly brought back the power lever to 20 % as the giant aircraft loaded with close to 40 tons of high explosive missiles and sensitive radar components strted rolling on the tarmac, gently picking up speed to 25 kmph

Akash (Sanskrit: आकाश Ākāś "Sky") is India's medium range surface-to-air missile defense system developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Bharat Electronics Limited(BEL) as part of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Program.[2][3][4] The missile can target aircraft up to 30 km away, at altitudes up to 18,000 m. Akash can be fired from both tracked and wheeled platforms. Akash is said to be capable of both conventional and nuclear warheads, with a reported payload of 60 kg. A nuclear warhead could potentially give the missile the capability to destroy both aircraft and warheads from ballistic missiles. The missile battery is described as being able to track and attack several targets simultaneously.
An Akash battery comprises four 3D phased array radars and four launchers with three missiles each, all of which are interlinked. Each radar is able to track 16 targets simultaneously and control a launcher with 3 missiles. Hence it is to be able to track 64 targets and simultaneously attack any 12 of those targets at one time. The Akash system is comparable to the Patriot system, but unlike the Patriot, Akash is fully mobile and capable of protecting a moving convoy of vehicles. Like the Patriot, the Akash is really an air defense SAM which has been tested in a ballistic missile role. The system provides air defense missile coverage of 2,000 km².
The India military's combined orders of the Akash, including radar systems(WLR and Surveillance), have a total worth of $5.2 billion ( 23,300 crore)
The first test flight of Akash missile was conducted in 1990, with development flights up to March 1997.
Two Akash missiles intercepted two fast moving targets in simultaneous engagement mode in 2005. 3-D Central Acquisition Radar (3D-CAR) group mode performance is also fully established.
Along with India, a limited number of other countries including the US, Russia, Japan, Israel, and some EU countries have developed operational multi target-handling surface-to-air missile systems. With the successful user trials of Akash, India has validated the technology and operational efficacy of this missile system. This system is claimed to be more accurate than the MIM-104 Patriot as it has thrust during the entire course of its flight compared to the Patriot that has thrust only for the first 12 seconds, after which the missile coasts, thus making it less accurate. Apart from that the Akash can be launched from static or mobile platforms, including a battle tank \The Akash Missile Development cost of 1,000crore ($200 million), including the project sanction of 600 crore ($120 million), is 8-10 times lower than the cost of similar system developments in other countries. Akash, which is considered as Indian ‘poor man’s Patriot,’ has certain unique characteristics like mobility, all-the-way-powered flight till target interception, multiple target handling, digitally-coded command guidance and fully automatic operation.”.

- tower –mule lead –flight request take off clearance
- stand by mule lead-
- mule lead – tower –cleared for immediate take of – follow 5 minute interval –fly runway heading – form up only on clearing class D airspace – make altitude 4 000 meters –over
- copy tower – mule lead rolling now – take off at 5 minute interval – fly runway heading –form up outside class D airspace – initial cruise altitude 4000 meters –over
- read back correct mule lead – have a safe flight –over

Umesh locked on the main brake as he gently pushed forward the collective ,bringing up all the four engines to full military power ,waited for 5 seconds and then quickly disengaged the main brake and the massive aircraft started rolling slowly at first then picking up speed quickly – the controls came alive at 110kmph –at 210 kmph it was time to rotate slowly very slowly and the nose started coming up grudgingly –the wheels cleared the runway precisely at 238 kmph – altimeter 100 mters –undercarriage up –air speed 320 kmph – slow bank to starboard –air speed 380kmph –flaps up –climb rate 500 mter/mim – power reduce to 90% - air speed 430 kmph –reduce climb rate to 350 meter per minute –air speed up 480kmph –

-tower Mule lead –clear of class D air space –request permission to class B air space – altitude 3000 mters climbing to 4000 –over
-mule lead – tower – cleared to class B air space – use own navigation – over

The four IL 76 s formed up north of Zahirabad in a loose wide spaced diamond formation ,the formationthey will maintain all the way to Car Nicobar


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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Yagnasri » 13 Oct 2010 20:49

Akash with a nuke warhead???

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby kaangeya » 14 Oct 2010 01:25


Although there are no permanent enemies or friends, Indonesia has been a less of a headache for us than Malaysia. As for the people. Indonesians are definitely better than the bigoted Malaysians. I am not sure if you have gotten your political alignment right this time.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Rupesh » 14 Oct 2010 04:51

Guys.. Stop Bothering Shankar, instead enjoy the possible scenario! and after we kick A$$, request a new one with Malay's facing the heat :mrgreen:

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby SAditya » 14 Oct 2010 07:27

Rupesh wrote:Guys.. Stop Bothering Shankar, instead enjoy the possible scenario! and after we kick A$$, request a new one with Malay's facing the heat :mrgreen:

I agree with Rupesh. Go ahead Shankarbhai,,,eagerly waiting for next part.

Also Vinit,

it was very nice report...keep going.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 14 Oct 2010 12:20


The chief of air staff starts his day early and today was no exception. As he switched on the live news feed from underground situations room on his I mac PC the real time flight profile of the four IL-76 s approaching the Car Nic air force station came up on the screen.
He was not overtly worried .He knew the Indonesian air force does not have the capability to interdict the transport flights ,not with fully 4 fully armed sukhois protecting it all the way and supported by navy fulcrums in the region but accidents can happen and his job as chief was to ensure they do not .

On his desk were the daily news briefs which he glanced through as contacted the space cell for some up to date pictures of the Indonesian air fields in the vicinity

Indonesia's air force plans to revive a request for funds to launch competitions to replace its Rockwell OV-10 Bronco light combat aircraft and BAE Systems Hawk 53 trainers.
The service submitted requests to the country's defence ministry for funds to replace its 16 OV-10s in 2008 and 20 Hawks in 2009, but the government did not approve these due to budget constraints, and in the wake of the global economic downturn.
Indonesia's economy, however, has recovered faster than many others in Asia, which means that it could fund several defence projects this year.
A fresh proposal for the procurements will be sent shortly, as the OV-10s and Hawks need to be replaced urgently, Indonesian air force commander Air Marshal Imam Sufaat told the official Antara news agency.
"The proposal for the OV-10 Bronco replacement has already been approved, while that for substitutes for our Hawk 53s is still under discussion. But we will renew our proposal," Sufaat says.
He adds that there are five alternatives to the Hawk. These are the Aero Vodochody L-159B, Alenia Aermacchi M-346, Chengdu FTC-2000, Korea Aerospace Industries/Lockheed Martin T-50 and the Yakovlev Yak-130.
Sufaat did not say what the service wants as a replacement for its OV-10s. However, industry sources say that budget constraints may force his service to buy a trainer that could also be used for light attack applications.
Indonesia, a sprawling archipelago, has said that it is prioritising the need to increase its maritime patrol and transport aircraft capabilities in the coming years. Its air force last December ordered three Indonesian Aerospace-produced CN-235s for maritime patrol and reconnaissance missions. It has also been in talks with the USA about buying refurbished Lockheed C-130s and upgrading its existing examples.
The air force has, however, also been pushing the government to go ahead with plans to upgrade its existing Lockheed F-16A/B fighters, and to buy more Sukhoi Su-30MKMs.
AN INDONESIAN Air Force (TNI AU) Chief of Staff was awarded the Royal Brunei Air Force (RBAirF) Honorary Pilot Wing from His Majesty, the Sultan and Yang Di-Pertuan of Brunei Darussalam.Presenting the honorary pilot wing to the visiting TNI Air Marshal TNI Imam Sufaat Daud yesterday in a ceremony held at the RBAirF Base in Rimba was Commander of the Royal Brunei Armed Forces, Major General Hj Aminuddin Ihsan Pehin Orang Kaya Saiful Mulok Dato Seri Paduka Hj Abidin.
The honour was given to TNI Air Marshal in recognition of his valuable efforts and outstanding services in strengthening ties between the RBAirForce and TNI AU.
The TNI Air Marshal was greeted on arrival at the Rimba Air Base by the RBAirForce Commander Colonel (U) Hj Jofri Hj Abdullah. He then received and inspected the Guards of Honour mounted by RBAirForce personnel.The visiting TNI Air Marshal then paid a courtesy calls to the Commander of RBAF Major General Hj Aminuddin Ihsan and the Commander of RBAirForce Colonel (U) Hj Jofri.
Earlier he met with Deputy Minister of Defence, Dato Paduka Hj Mustappha Hj Sirat at the Ministry of Defence in Bolkiah Garrison
The Indonesian Air Force Chief of Staff is on a two-day introductory visit to the Sultanate following his appointment as TNI Air Marshall Chief of Staff in November 9, 2009.
Air Marshal TNI Imam Sufaat started his career as a fighter pilot in 1979 soon after graduating from the Air Force Academy in 1977. During his service, he has held various administrative and managerial appointments.The Brunei Times


Squadron leader Umesh checked the moving map display as he approached the Car Nicobar air defense identification zone. In the distance he could see though the thin cloud cover the tiny toe shaped island of Car Nicobar.
Over flight over car nic was strictly prohibited .Any air craft approaching the air base is politely and firmly told to move away and identify itself. Only those with an approved flight plan to land were allowed into approach circuit and in the form of an elongated D with the sole runway at the center.

-Car nic tower – mule flight –request permission to transit class D air space
- Mule flight – car nic tower – come right to heading 135 – reduce altitude to 2500 meters –over
- Tower –mule lead –changing course to 135 – coming down to 2500 meters

Umesh eased back on the power lever and dialed in the new altitude setting. The engine whine came down and the aircraft nosed down marginally to come to the new prescribed altitude

- mule flight –tower – change course to 105 – climb to 5000 meters – and confirm
- tower- mule lead – climbing to 5000 meters – changing course to 105 –over
- mule flight - your escorts will join in few minutes – resume own navigation – maintain present altitude – have a safe journey .

Umesh looked back at the fast receding tiny island air base and then he saw four dark specks climbing fast towards him on a column of fire and smoke and were soon abreast

- mule lead – trident flight – we have you covered – can u guys please push up the speed a notch –over
- trident lead –mule lead glad to have you around trident – going 900 klick –is that ok
- happy to be of service mule lead – maintain present course and speed – we shall go strict emcon as we enter grid sector zuly delta all the way to destination –over
- copy that trident lead – over and out

The four Su-30 mki boxed the transport flight in and matched speed as they approached the Thai coast line not very far .

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 14 Oct 2010 16:43


Rear Admiral Nirmal Jain finished his morning round – one of the aircraft elevators were stuck ,foreign matter in the guide rail and consequent hydraulic pipe rupture –the over pressure release did not work . So now the engineers were bust taking the aircraft to flight deck with rigged winch slowly while another group was busy replacing the burst hydraulic line. There were six Mig 29 K on deck apart from 2 on CAP duty .With the elevator stuck up half way the aircraft storage area was suddenly vulnerable to a missile /bomb strike and that is some thing no naval aviator likes surely not Niraml Jain .
The task force commander knew –Indonesians will strike back and would do so anytime as long as the carrier group was within range of their shore based air bases .And also he knew they will this time attack in strength ,so he needed all his aircraft available and ship ready for combat

“the damn ----------elevator he muttered as he made his way towards the combat information center and saw a young officer running towards him

“sir Admiral sir – we have a situation “
“ what situation”
“ sir we think a big raid is under way -300 km out – detected by our Kamov just now – flying in very low with possible anti ship missiles ...

Nirmal started running even before the young officer finished his report and almost dived into the reserved express elevator which took him quickly down to the sterile confines of the combat information center.

In 1992 air force strength was about 27,000. Approximately 4,000 of these personnel formed four battalions of "quick action" paratroopers. The structure of the air force consisted of a headquarters staff in Jakarta supporting the chief of staff, two subordinate commands (Air Matériel Command and Air Training Command), and three operational commands (Ko-Op I, Ko-Op II, and the National Air Defense Command).
The Air Matériel Command was headquartered in Bandung, Jawa Barat Province, and the Air Training Command was in Surabaya, Jawa Timur Province. Indonesia's air operations were divided into two area commands with Jakarta being the east/west dividing point. The largest of the operational commands was Ko-Op II, headquartered in Ujungpandang, Sulawesi Selatan Province, and responsible for all air force operations east of Jakarta (including Kalimantan). KoOp I, headquartered in Jakarta, covered air force operations west of Jakarta. The National Air Defense Command, also headquartered in Jakarta, had operational control over all fighter and counterinsurgency aircraft.
• SKADRON UDARA 12 : HAWK 100 / 200
• SKADRON UDARA 17 : BOEING 707, F-28, F-27 DAN SA-330 PUMA
Most of the major weapons systems operated by the air force were manufactured in the United States and consisted of the C-130 Hercules, OV-10F Bronco, F-5E Tiger II, and A-4E Skyhawk. The air force also operated several B-737 aircraft for maritime reconnaissance. In 1990 the air force took delivery of the twelve F-16 Fighting Falcons purchased from the United States, which were based at Iswahyudi Air Base, Jawa Timur Province. During the modernization period of the 1980s, the air force also purchased the Automated Logistics Management System (ALMS) from the United States to upgrade its ability to track and requisition spare parts and materials.
In 1980 the air force enunciated a forward defense strategy that required building or upgrading air bases throughout Indonesia as well as main bases on Java. Most of those upgrades involved civilian airfields also used by the air force. A major upgrade at Ranai Air Base on Natuna Island provided a base for improved surveillance of the South China Sea. Iswahyudi Air Base was upgraded to enable it to handle modern jet fighter aircraft. In 1992, most airfield upgrade programs had been started but most combat aircraft were still based on Java. The exception was one squadron of A-4 aircraft at Pekanbaru Air Base, Riau Province, and another at Hasanuddin Air Base near Ujungpandang.

The sharp edge of Indonesia's air capability is somewhat blunt. The most capable type in the inventory are a dozen F-16A and dual control F-16B aircraft. The aircraft are to Block 15 OCU (Operational Capability Upgrade) standard, fitted with P&W F-100-PW-100 23,800 lb thrust fans and upgraded older AN/APG-66 radar. The OCU is an upgrade applied to older USAF and NATO airframes and FMS exports new build and refurbished, and involves the upgrading of the radar and the weapon system software, installation of higher performance fire control and stores management computers, installation of a data transfer unit and fitting a ring laser gyro inertial system, either a Honeywell H-423 or Litton LN-93.
The standard fit FMS OCU aircraft will carry an ALE-40 chaff/flare dispenser and the older USAF standard ALR-69, which is a modified ALR-45 digital radar warning system with added SAM launch command link warning receiver. The presence of antenna scabs on photographed aircraft indicates the TNI-AU aircraft are so equipped. There is no internal defensive ECM, but provisions for the ALQ-131 exist in the standard FMS OCU configuration.
The APG-66 is a modest air intercept radar. It uses a slotted planar array antenna with 32.6 dB gain in its nominal I/J band operating range, with peak sidelobes at -31 dB in azimuth and -26dB in elevation. The radar is a two stage superhet with intermediate frequencies of 670 MHz and 56 MHz, the lower frequency is digitised and handled by a programmable signal processor. The radar is pulse Doppler with low, medium and high PRFs selected for varying target/engagement geometries. The APG-66 has nominal range of up to 80 NM, with an azimuth scan out to +/- 60 degrees.
The OCU upgrades to the radar include a facility to slave the seekers of the all aspect AIM-9P-4 Sidewinder to the antenna boresight for dogfight acquisition, and facilities for datalink control of Amraam and alternately, if fitted, can support a continuous wave illuminator for the AIM-7 Sparrow (or similar CW SARH missile). The radar's basic air-air search modes are Uplook and Downlook Search, the latter providing for the the detection of fighter size targets in clutter at 29 NM or better. There are several acquisition modes. Manual modes are Single Target Track and Situation Awareness (STT combined with track while scan on remaining targets), automatic modes comprise four Air Combat Manoeuvring (ACM) modes. These provide for HUD acquisition, vertical acquisition, boresight acquisition and a slewable 60x20 scan acquisition (modes not unlike those in the APG-65).
Air to ground modes include real beam groundmap, Doppler beam sharpening, ranging, beacon tracking and sea search. These are used to support a range of air-ground delivery modes, including CCIP, Dive Toss and CCRP, with a CEP reported better than 100 ft for low level HUD aimed delivery of unguided munitions.
What this yields is essentially little difference from the early TAC standard F-16A with the low thrust engine. The aircraft is a capable VFR dogfighter with limited IFR air intercept capability, and good VFR capability as a tactical strike aircraft. The limited electronic warfare fit and absence of night vision and designation capability restricts the aircraft's usefulness in the strike role to daylight operations under VFR conditions, in low density environments. The AIM-9P-4 (see TE on Sidewinder) is a Sidewinder with limited aerodynamic manoeuvre performance by virtue of older actuator and engine design, and is inferior to the AIM-9L/M used by the USAF/USN and RAAF. Reports indicate the TNI-AU is interested in acquiring a BVR SARH missile such as the Sparrow or the Skyflash, both types being compatible with the radar should the illuminator be fitted. The lack of such capability will seriously restrict the TNI-AU's capability to stop low level penetrators under IFR/night conditions and is a major weakness in their air defence capability.
The radius performance of the F-16A-15 OCU is similar to that of the F/A-18A and is understandably sensitive to payload and profile. Useful payloads on Hi-Lo-Hi profiles are deliverable out to about 500 NM, the absence of PGM capability is in this context a major failing as it forces heavier payloads and hence limits radius to about 300 NM with 3,000 lb of Mk.82, or slightly better on lesser payload.
Recent reports from overseas, yet to be confirmed, suggest that the ongoing RENSTRA 5 force development plan will see the acquisition of further F-16s, for a target force of 36 single seaters and 12 two seaters, seeing also the phasing out of the F-5 force. Whether financial constraints allow this to happen remains to be seen.
The other supersonic type in the TNI-AU inventory is the venerable Northrop F-5E Tiger II, the US FMS export fighter of the seventies. Powered by a pair of 5,000 lb afterburning J85-GE-21A turbojets, the F-5E is a useful lightweight point defence fighter with excellent handling characteristics. It is however a truly defensive aircraft due its very limited radius performance and rudimentary weapon system.
The core of the aircraft's weapon system is a lightweight Emerson Electric APQ-153 or in later aircraft, APQ-159 radar. The radar is coupled to an ASG-29 or 31 lead computing optical sight, to support attacks with the aircraft's two Pontiac M-39A-2 20 mm cannon, with 280 RPG, or with a pair of wingtip mounted AIM-9P-3 or P-4 AAMs. The radar is very limited in lookdown performance and target handling capacity, and provides a quoted 20 NM detection range.
It is unclear whether the TNI-AU aircraft carry the ALR-46 RWR and ALE-40 dispenser fitted to many FMS export F-5Es. The evidence of such a fit would lie in the scab antenna covers on the forward fuselage. The ALR-46 would provide a useful and adequate warning capability for the aircraft's role.
The F-5E is no match for a teen series fighter or a Fulcrum in a dogfight environment, while its poor thrust/weight ratio and small wing severely restrict its capability as an interdictor, in any event limited to daylight/VFR strikes. With a meaningful payload of 5,000 lb the F-5E is limited to a radius of 120 NM, with a marginally useful load of 1,000 lb (ie 2 x Mk.82) it can range to about 500 NM. The limited accuracy and payload of this type renders its utility outside the point defence role as questionable.
The most useful type by virtue of numbers and radius performance in the TNI-AU inventory is Ed Heinemann's classic, the Douglas A-4. With two squadrons it is the most numerous fast jet in the inventory, most aircraft are reportedly ex-USN A-4Es saved from the graveyard, with the dual airframes ex-Israeli TA-4Hs refurbished in the US.
While the TNI-AU's Skyhawks are universally listed as A-4Es, they are fitted with the avionic 'hump' characteristic of the later A-4F, which suggests either a custom nav-attack upgrade which has not been publicised, or the aircraft are in fact A-4Fs or ex-Israeli A-4Hs, the identity of which has been concealed for political reasons.
The differences between these Skyhawk models are not substantial, all are fitted with versions of the P&W J52 turbojet, either the 8,500 lb P-6A in the E-model, or 9,300 lb P-8A in the F-model and H-model. All A-4s will deliver a useful payload of several thousand pounds beyond 400 NM with a pair of 300 USG tanks, as evidenced in the Falklands. The A-4 is rugged and manoeuvrable, with good tolerance for battle damage, and is easily maintained in the field.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Vinit » 15 Oct 2010 12:37

Pakistan Reaction:

The Pakistani government pointed out that the uniforms, vehicles, and bullets at the scene were identical to those used by the Indian army, and opined that unable to catch the insurgents who had triggered the ambush, the army had taken revenge on a nearby Muslim village.

Pakistan continued to stick with its stand, stating that the Indian evidence was manufactured. The Pakistan Foreign Minister stated that the Indian position of a “manufactured incident” was simply not possible, since it was inconceivable for Muslims to kill fellow Muslims in this manner. The Pakistani prime minister, president, and other officials began a tour of world capitals asking for support for Kashmiri independence and an immediate withdrawal of Indian forces from the area. They also sent delegations to Islamic countries pointing out the repression of muslims in India, and many fund-raising drives were successfully begun in Pakistan to raise funds for the oppressed muslims in India and Kashmir.

Rest of the World Reaction:
China deplored the incident and said that it regarded it as a matter of grave concern, however, its statement was careful not to assign any responsibility for the incident.

Islamic nations criticized India in strong terms, with many nations sending delegations to the Indian capital to express their concern or summoning the Indian ambassador and demanding assurances and explanations.

European reaction was of deep concern, and a few nations offered their assistance to India in investigating the incident. All such offers of help were strongly refused by the Indians who accused those nations of interfering in India’s internal affairs.

In concluding, all these years later, it is still not possible to identify definitively the group responsible for the Raya Amirpur massacre.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Vinit » 15 Oct 2010 13:21

Raya Amirpur Incident: The Political Game

A comparison of the two key players (India and Pakistan) shows, in hindsight, that the Pakistanis were able to make the most of this unfortunate incident. This is not entirely surprising, since the Pakistani mil-gov complex has proven to be very adept in repeatedly manipulating world opinion to serve its aims.

Pakistan’s ability to create situations and gain advantages from them on the international front was very much in decline during 2009 – 2010. Nevertheless, the country had vast experience in the arena, having received many billions of dollars in aid from the USA under various guises since 1960 (particularly since 1980 and the USSR invasion of Afghanistan).

Pakistan’s shaky civilian government, which was under threat from multiple internal fronts (political, military, economic, international) found the incident to be a god-send, which reinforces the Indian views that the incident was carried out with Pakistan’s knowledge if not its actual participation.

The Pakistani government successfully used the incident to divert the attention of the Pakistani military and Pakistani population from its internal troubles to foment an anti-India atmosphere. Leading politicians made whirlwind tours of the country giving speeches which were strongly anti-India. Various fund-raising drives for “Kashmiri freedom fighters” were initiated throughout the country, collecting millions of rupees.

The Pakistani government also set up “national Islamic self-defence centres” throughout the country, which offered 15-day courses in basic weapon usage and tactics. Officially, this was to discourage any Indian attack, however, internally, this seems to have been a tactic to bring an increasingly frustrated population under control.

Following these steps, anti-Indian feeling in Pakistan reached new highs. The popularity of the elected President and Prime Minister of Pakistan rose to very high levels.

On the other hand, the Indian government was unable to provide a robust defence of the incident, with different politicians and media persons laying different interpretations on it. As such, the Pakistani demand for intervention in Kashmir became a world headline for several weeks, with widespread condemnation of India by all Islamic countries.

The world media and the global political establishment, in the absence of a strong stand from India, were forced to dwell upon an agenda largely set by Pakistan regarding this incident, which focused on one-sided topics yet very well worded topics. Examples of these are “Timetable for an Indian withdrawal from Kashmir” which pre-supposed the fact that India was going to withdraw from Kashmir, with only the timetable being an issue, or “Preventing minority genocides in India”, which brought up decade old rioting incidents in India.

As previously stated, the initial Indian reactions were confused, with different politicians and media leaders coming up with different interpretations and denials or criticisms. Further, the Indian establishment was clearly seen to be reacting to a Pakistani agenda rather than setting its own.
For example, a communication from the Indian government in early 2011 declared that “The Indian government refuses to consider demands for a withdrawal of security forces for Kashmir … movement of Indian army units in Kashmir remains under civilian authority control and will be subject to further reviews if the necessity arises.”

The Indian reaction, while logical and responsible in investigating the incident professionally and offering facts in a well-researched conclusion, did not provide the "sound bites" or strong stands that were a staple of world media and world political-public opinion in the early part of the 21st century. As such, despite the growing importance and stature of India on the world stage, the early political game post the Raya Amirpur incident was clearly in Pakistan's favour.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 17 Oct 2010 11:05


As the admiral entered the CIC he took in the room at a glance, clockwise: to his left is the DRT (Dead Reckoning Tracer), next the VF (Precision PPI repeater), the VG [projection plan position indicator] with a standard plotting table attached, the fighter director’s niche with the PPI and air plotting table secured to the aft bulkhead, the SP [Summary Plotter (radar)] and SK [Air search radar (shipborne)] radar consoles, and finally, directly to his right, the SG [Surface Search Radar] console.All positions were manned as expected and busy in a quite kind of way

r Almost in the center of the room stands the Evaluator. This rightly cannot be called his area of operation for his duty station is everywhere in CIC—by the DRT, next to the fighter director, near any of the radar consoles. His duty is to analyze and evaluate all combat information, and generally speaking, he stays close to the 21 MC and 24 MC to pass this information with suggestions on tactical situations to the Captain and the Flag. On a carrier r he is usually Commander in rank, because in most cases he is the Executive officer. This is a revolutionary idea born of necessity, for the evaluator must be, according to RADSIX, a "tacitically experienced officer."
CIC Officer: A few feet to the left of is the CIC officer console, sometimes called the assistant evaluator. He is, says RADSIX: “… responsible for the functioning of CIC…
welding of the CIC team into an efficient whole.” During GQ [General Quarters], his battle station is any place within CIC where he normally mans the same power circuits as the evaluator. In addition he checks on operating methods and procedure, keeping radar operators and lookouts informed of expected sectors of contact, insuring that the navigator and fire control receive all possible assistance from CIC, and in general, is a first class trouble shooter who sees to it that CIC is, what its name implies, a center for combat information of all kinds.
Figher Director: The fighter director officer, near the aft bulkhead, sits before a remote PPI using either of the air search radar. A complete air picture is kept up to the minute on the plotting table next to him. An enlisted dead reckoner estimates the position of the controlled friendly aircraft in the air during fades or when radar reports are not forthcoming. Next to the dead reckoner is an enlisted intercept plotter wearing earphones, who plots all contacts reported by one of the air search radar operators on the SP or SK. All communications between plotters and radar operators is over JS circuits. The fighter director's responsibility is the coordination and control of aircraft assigned to his unit. He talks and listens to pilots over VHF or, on occasion, HF radio. Note the status board, where all information on friendly aircraft— the orders given to the pilots, the fuel and ammo supply, weather conditions and the like—is kept up to the minute by an enlisted status board keeper, usually a radarman striker.
Geographic Plot Officer: Standing next to him, on his left, is the geographic plot officer (or DRT Officer). With enlisted geographic plot-

ter and recorder, this is the team specializing in navigation and shore bombardment who, with the Dead Reckoning Tracer that reproduces, with some degree of error, the ship's actual track, and with radar fixes, are able to give the ship’s position at any given time. A pitometer is mounted on the bulkhead directly behind the DRT. This team is in the busy corner during shore bombardments when their job is to give accurate ranges and bearings on targets, and keep the ship from fouling up on reefs. During a sea engagement, especially under conditions of poor visibility, this corner directs the fire control onto surface targets with the aid of the Main Battery liaison officer, who, with a precision PPI operator, operates the VF [Precision plan position indicator].
Gunnery Liaison Officers: It is the Main Battery and AA gunnery liaison officers who actually man the circuits, coaching the weapons onto the targets, using all CIC information available from the DRT and radar reports. By using the VF, the MB gunnery liaison officer gets an enlarged view of the target, and with hand wheels, can crank in “cross-hairs” that automatically give him range and bearing in actual figures.
The surface plot officer sits next to the VG with the enlisted surface plotter. With the VG, it is possible to keep an accurate summary plot of all ships in the formation. Secured to the VG is a plotting table, generally carrying the air picture for the benefit of the AA gunnery officer and the evaluator. The 20 MC squawkbox, known as the radar circuit, is directly over the plotting table.
Radar Officer: The Radar Technician usually assumes the role of Radar supervisor during GQ, standing by to check any technical difficulties and coordinating the radar operation as a whole. His situation is by the radar consoles. Normally his duty is the maintenance of all radar equipment. In front of each of the radar consoles sit two radar operators, one operating and the other standing by, although occasionally, as is the case of the SG operators, one checks the PPI scope, the other the “A” scope. Radar operators must shift every twenty or thirty minutes to avoid eye strain.
Communications Officer: To his left, in the corner, sits the Communications officer with two radio recorders/operators. He, says RADSIX, “has general supervision of exterior communications in CIC, including decoding, encoding, supervising radio recorders, stowage and maintenance of publications, communication plans, etc.”The radio recorders/operators are enlisted men who maintain a log designated radio circuits and operate the recording devices when these are available.
In the center of the room, grouped around a fire control tube, are three enlisted “talkers.” Their duty is to report information to the CIC officer and evaluator that they receive over their circuits, and to give out information which is relayed to them by the CIC officer or evaluator. The JL talker gets all information from lookouts topside and coaches them on targets from radar reports in CIC. The JA talker on the Captain’s circuit gets the overall tactical situation. The JS talker transmits and receives data from navigation, air plot, and other stations where radar reports are essential.
The JW talker, to his right, is connected to the Captain’s talker at Conn, the torpedo director officer, the main battery director, the gunnery plotting room officer and computer range operator. Over this circuit the recommended approach courses, attack maneuvers and target indications can be quickly disseminated.

-sir we have twelve possible bogeys inbound – 8 on deck –possible A4 s with anti ship missiles and four at 6000 meters confirmed F-16s -closing in speed 500 knots
- very well xo- get the ready birds on air –now – get four more on immediate launch status –get a standby Kamov in air too –
- clear deck for aircraft launch
-deck ready for aircraft launch –came the immediate confirmation from flight deck controller
Up on the flight deck the first of the Mig 29K started engine and came on the tactical net
- blaze lead –tower –request permission for immediate take off
- blaze lead –cleared for immediate take off –over
The first fulcrum took off few seconds later and second after 2 minutes
- tower blaze team in air – 300 meter and climbing –request intercept vector
- stand by blaze team – come up to 8000 meters –course 160 for the time being – target 4 repeat four F-16 inbound with anti ship – take them out – you are weapons free as of now –no friend lies in the vicinity – good luck-over
- sir two more fulcrums rady to go
- launch them before recovering the paitr we have on CAP
- aye aye sir

- blaze 3 you are cleared for take off – join blaze lead at angels 8000 –over
- blaz 3 rolling –now
- blaze 4 get into take off position – you are clear to take off in 3 minutes –confirm
- blaze four moving into take off position –
Two more Mig 29k were now in air
-how much fuel do the birds in air have XO
- sir about 20 minutes
- recover them now –refuel and get them back to air –this may turn out to be nasty
- aye sir
- zenith team – return to base immediately –over
- zenith lead – returning to base – now

- clear deck for aircraft recovery and quick turnaround
-deck clear for recovery
-zenith one –you are cleared to land – make it fast guys – we need you back in air pronto
-aye aye sir – zenith one confirms – back in 2 minutes
- zenith two following sir

The first mig 29 K landed with a loud thud followed by the second. The deck crew quickly rushed forward turning the aircraft around into take off position while fuel bowsers were already connected pumping in fuel at close to 4000 liters a minute as the pilots grabbed a quick cup of coffee and chicken sandwitch.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Vinit » 18 Oct 2010 10:24

Pakistani Strategy in the Aftermath

As stated, the Pakistani government was under multiple pressures: domestic unrest, a dissatisfied military, a crashing economy, and increasing militant influence. Further, Pakistan was governed by four power centres, who had these strategies in the aftermath of the Raya Amirpur incident:

Power Centre 1: Pakistani Government: The incident was a godsend to divert attention from all the pressures it faced. Strategy – highlight the incident as much as possible domestically and internationally, shift the focus from its own non-performance. Turn a blind eye to increased militant activity / intelligence support for terrorists in India, yet, at the same time, do not cross a threshold that would provoke the Indians into attacking since that would lead to the end of this government.

Power Centre 2: Pakistani Army: Continue anti-India posture, turn a blind eye to increased activity by anti-India terrorist groups, support them with equipment / infiltration cover when necessary. Prepare to defend against an Indian attack, yet do not provoke the Indians into attacking.

Power Centre 3: Pakistani intelligence: Increase support for all anti-India terrorist groups, consisting of training, equipment, and infiltration. Provide sophisticated explosive devices. Activate all sleeper cells. Create domestic unrest and religious disharmony in India. Provide all support to any separatist movements in India. Instigate incidents to tie down the Indian army and weaken them and their morale. Weaken the Indian economy. Divert attention of terrorist/militant groups from Pakistan to Kashmir.

Power Centre 4: Pakistani Islamic militant groups: Shift focus of all terrorist and militant activities to India particularly Kashmir, but also to rest of India. Guarantee that Pakistan will no longer be the focus of activity in exchange for support, training, equipment, and weapons from Pakistani intelligence.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Vinit » 18 Oct 2010 10:25

The Conflict Begins: Unrest in India

Note: The period following the Raya Amirpur incident, involving the deaths of nearly 300 civilians, was followed by great turmoil in South East Asia. This was a confusing period with multiple allegations of who was at fault, with clarity still lacking on many aspects. This report will therefore only lay out the incidents as they occurred without attempting to ascribe responsibility or blame.

Tensions in Kashmir increased dramatically following the Raya Amirpur incident. There was a very high uptick in the appearance of sophisticated automatic weapons and explosives in the hands of insurgents, and battles with security forces increased considerably. Civilian and security force casualties increased to new highs, and several cities of Kashmir became no-go areas, where security forces were sure to be challenged if they ventured.

The Indians repeatedly accused the Pakistanis of aiding and abetting these militants, and the Pakistanis routinely denied such support apart from “moral support”. However, the Indian accusation does appear to be partially true, since the weapons and explosives that were being used in Kashmir could have come only via Pakistan.

A second trend in Kashmir during this period was the increasing number of terrorists and militants who changed their focus from Iraq, Afghanistan, Oman, and Somalia to Kashmir. Appendix A2 shows that incidents in these countries show a steady decline after the Raya Amirpur incident. It is therefore safe to make the assumption that Pakistan successfully changed the focus of Islamic militancy to see Kashmir as a greater threat to Islam rather than Afghanistan / Iraq.

Indian complaints did not achieve much due to several reasons, first, they were treated as routine since most incidents in the country were tended to be blamed immediately on Pakistan. Second, the Indian stand was not being put across forcefully.

Finally, the USA was not at all keen to take Pakistan to task; one of the US generals in Afghanistan is on record as saying that he “welcomed the ‘Look East’ policy of the Islamic militants as it made his life in Afghanistan much easier”.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Vinit » 19 Oct 2010 07:54

Pakistani Strategy in the Conflict

As stated, all of Pakistan's four governing power centres (the government, the armed forces, the intelligency agencies, and the militants) had more or less decided to escalate the conflict with India with the objective of taking over Kashmir. There was broad agreement on the ultimate goal, though much less agreement on the specific methods of and plans for achieving it.

At the same time, the armed forces, via the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (the apex of the Pakistani armed forces command structure) was pragmatic enough to admit that they did not want a full-scale war with India, given the current military capabilities of the two nations. Such a war would definitely cause heavy losses for the Pakistani military, if not outright defeat. Alternatively, war on that scale could escalate into a nuclear exchange, which none of the Pakistani military leaders looked forward to, notwithstanding the wishes of many of their more extreme citizens.

Thus, the challenge before Pakistan was to take over Kashmir without a full-scale war with India. To this effect, Pakistani strategy revolved around these elements:

1. Diplomatic offensive: attempt to isolate India on the world stage, highlight the Kashmir issue and gain sympathy for the militants, downplay Pakistani support for terrorism in Kashmir and India, obtain the maximum possible military and economic support from the international community. Also, leverage China and the US to fulfil the conflict objective.

2. Insurgency offensive: provide all possible assistance (logistical, equipment, and training) to all extremist forces in India while maintaining deniability; attempt to co-ordinate these into the semblance of an overall plan rather than sporadic attempts. Use these extremists to foster religious discord and general disorder to tie down Indian security forces. Encourage specific attacks on Indian armed forces and key infrastructure in India. Increase insurgency attempts in Kashmir to the maximum level possible, even to the extent of risking deniability.

3. Armed defence and contingency plans: The Pakistani armed forces to maintain a complete alert with a defensive posture, to provide deterrence against an Indian retaliatory attack. At the same time, the armed forces must have offensive plans to move into Kashmir should the opportunity arise.

4. Non-conventional warfare: Employ all non-conventional means to disrupt India's economy and armed forces, including psychological and cyber warfare.

This report will now outline how the Pakistani offensive on these four strategies played out during February and March - a period when the weather conditions in Kashmir made any kind of conventional warfare between the two nations extremely difficult if not impossible.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Vinit » 19 Oct 2010 08:30

Mud, Fog, and Paralysis

"Throwing mud at someone" is a poor translation of a common South Asian phrase, which means besmirching someone's reputation.

In late February, one of India's smaller television channels, which had built up a reputation for extremely sensational (though not always fact-based) reporting, received a large package addressed to its editor, marked confidential. This was purported to have been sent by a whistleblower in the Indian armed forces.

The package contained what the editors of the channel regarded as a god-send: detailed evidence of corruption involving one of India's senior military officers. This officer was in the supply core of the armed forces, and not in a sensitive position; nevertheless, he was senior enough for the television channel to make a sensational splash in the crowded Indian media market.

Included in the package were short, low-quality, no-sound video clips of the officer meeting representatives of a certain supplier, and exchanges of documents and/or cash (cannot be clearly seen); photocopies of the officer's bank account in the Cayman Island and India; copies of the university invoices for his children, both of whom were studying in expensive US universities as full-fee students; documentary evidence of his Indian assets; some emails, and other related material.

The editorial team did a cursory check of the evidence, and quickly determined that it was all correct and true. It decided to run with the story.

Had they put more thought into the evidence, the editorial team would have realised that compiling such evidence was beyond the scope of any ordinary whistleblower. Instead, this appeared to be the work of a well-funded professional team of investigators who had been working on it for quite some time.

The story was released on television, hyped up and sensationalized to the maximum extent possible. The channel ran it as an expose, and rather than releasing all the material at once, spun it out over the entire week, bringing up "new" evidence each day.

This was quickly picked up by other Indian media, who added their own details (mostly unsubstantiated). The incident quickly became the topic of the week not only in the public forum but also in the Indian Parliament.

It is to be noted that the Indian armed forces were at the moment under multiple pressures - the Raya Amirpur massacre accusation, accusations of oppression in Kashmir (mostly by Pakistan), the responsibility of maintaining civil order in some rioting cities, as well as the continued responsibility of securing borders against China and Pakistan. This incident only added to the pressure and diverted the attention of senior military and political leaders in India.

Worse was to come - the next week, the editors received yet another package, with similar evidence against another two armed forces officers in other departments. This time, the sender had requested a small payment of Rs. 200,000 for "expenses". The editorial team again did a cursory check of the evidence, found the details to be true, and decided to run further exposes. However, this time, sensing that public interest would start dying out, they decided to release all the evidence at once.

The Rs. 200,000 was paid, "in confidence", which meant that it was delivered per instructions to an anonymous recipient. The editors regarded it as chickenfeed.

The story about further senior Indian armed forces officers being involved in corruption caused a huge furour. Other Indian media agencies, finding themselves outgunned, put their most sensationalist reporters and talk-show hosts on the case. The entire story quickly became one which tended to accuse the entire armed forces, rather than a few bad apples which would undoubtedly exist in any human organisation involving more than a million men.

The editors of the Indian sensationalist news channel were overjoyed; their ratings had increased substantially and they had become the number one news channel. Nevertheless, the competition was hotting up as other channels launched their own "investigations" and "informed reports".

Therefore, they were overjoyed when they received a third package, and their joy knew no bounds when the package turned out to contain similar evidence implicating the Indian defence minister and in corruption on key arms acquisitions made by India. The evidence also seemed to implicate other Indian politicians, and even hinted at the involvement of the Indian Prime Minister. This was a story beyond their wildest dreams, and they promptly ran it - this time, without checking all the facts, since their source had proven to be impeccable in the past, and they were in a hurry to maintain their newly found number-one position in the media hierarchy.

If the previous exposes had caused a furor, this latest relevation actually shut down the country for a couple of weeks or more, as the entire Indian political and military structure came under attack from the media, citizen groups, and political oppostion parties. The Indian parliament was unable to function for several days as politicians from the opposition demanded the governments resignation. The defence ministry was picketed by small but rowdy crowds, some organized by the political opposition, and others which seemed to "spontaneously organize" but later turned out to be hired.

The Indian government and the Indian armed forces fought back, denying the accusations, promising investigations, and conducting reviews. Nevertheless, with the atmosphere in the country, they found it very difficult to get their point across.

The resulting paralysis of the Indian government, and the impact on the functioning of the Indian armed forces, continued throughout March and April, and even beyond, assisted by several other similar "revelations" made available to the Indian media from time to time by 'whistleblowers' or 'concerned citizens'. The effect was dysfunctional and demoralizing in the extreme to both the political and military establishments in India.

Later investigations revealed two things:

1. the "evidence" submitted to the news channels had been complied at enourmous expense and with the use of sophisticated data gathering techniques over several years. The implication is that Pakistani intelligence was involved.

2. the evidence against the Indian defence minister and Prime Minister was manufactured and false, though the falsification was of such high quality that it would take experts to determine that it was fake. Again, Pakistani intelligence is believed to have been involved.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby ramana » 19 Oct 2010 21:49

Rajdeep wrote:The baki nostradamus on crack is at it again ,

Hypothetical Scenario-2014

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 19 Oct 2010 22:46


- blaze flight –tower – we see 12 inbound –possible bogeys – approaching fast – closing speed over 950 kmph - four definite F-16 rest possible A-4 - visual confirmation not required –you are weapons free as of now – repeat you are weapons free – engage and destroy targets at will –over
Copy tower –blaze lead – hostile targets –closing at 950 kliks plus – weapons armed – engaging now –over

The falcons came in a wide bow formation with the carrier group at their virtual center. As the circle of attack closed in they started loosing altitude for possible missile launch at maximum possible air speed
Commander Banarjee ,toggled his wing and dived for the deck along with his team mates ,each tracking their own falcon . They were simply in no mood for an extended dog fight with the Indonesian falcons where the falcons had an advantage. As they dropped to 50 meters over sea level, still guided by the Kamov 31 s orbiting over head, they kept their radars on standby – no point letting the enemy know where you are till necessary
The Mig 29K s weapons mix and range allows it to fill counter air and strike roles with remarkable ease.Comprising of internal gun ,short and medium range air to air missile unguided rockets and free fall bombs.The weapons are carried on eight wing hard points equipped with launch rails or ejector racks
The TKB 687 internal gun installation is housed in port leading edge root extension and consists of Gryasev Gsh 301 single barrel 30 mm (1.18 calibre) automated gun and associated ammunition box for 150 ao 18 rounds .Rate of fire is 1500-1800 rounds per minute with a muzzle velocity of 860 meters per second and rated recoil force of 6000-7500 kg.Atrigger on stick electrically controls firing.The gun is capable of continuous burst six second long or short bursts . The fire modes are automatic fire (75% ammo supply) ,automatic fire with cut off –one second burst with 25 rounds each time trigger is squeezed and also training mode – seven round burst.
The Gsh 301 is water cooled with additional cooling through the vents in gun bay .The gun can tolerate 2000 shots .
Apart from internal gun the Mig 29K s were also armed with 4 Vympel R-27 medium range air to air missiles and four Vympel R-73 short range missiles .
The R-27 is deadly for all types of air targets including remotely piloted vehicles and cruise missiles in all weather conditions over land and sea..Target flight level 2—27000 meter and a maximum target speed of 3500 kmph.The missile can be launched even when the fulcrum is pulling up at 5G and the target is 10000 meters higher or lower
Today the fulcrums will deploy two R-27 R s each at the leading hostile team of F-16 from less than 10 km head on -from wave top in a front end climbing attack. Chances of them surviving such a murderous attack was almost next to zero

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby johnny_m » 19 Oct 2010 23:31

A question why R 27s instead of the Active Radar R77s ?

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vardhank » 20 Oct 2010 14:39

ramana wrote:X-post...
Rajdeep wrote:The baki nostradamus on crack is at it again ,

Hypothetical Scenario-2014

BRILLIANT! I love the hop-skip-and-go into orbit logic. And the comments below are even sweeter. "Hindo Endians."

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 22 Oct 2010 22:48

The Indonesian government has admitted that the men seen torturing two Papuans in a video released on the internet this week are soldiers.

The minister for security said the soldiers would be punished. An investigation into the incident is continuing.

Survival International’s Sophie Grig, who has visited West Papua, said today, ‘The soldiers responsible must be brought to justice, to end the atmosphere of impunity that has allowed the torture and killing of Papuans to continue for decades. The Indonesian government must put an end to the horrific human rights abuses committed by its forces.’

The video footage, believed to have been taken in May this year in the highland region of West Papua, shows an elderly man stripped naked, a plastic bag being forced over his head, and screaming in agony as a burning stick is held to his genitals.

The Indonesian army has a long history of human rights violations against the Papuan tribal people.

Survival International is calling on Indonesia to enter into an open dialogue with the Papuan people about their future, and to allow human rights workers and journalists, who have long been barred, into Papua.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 22 Oct 2010 23:00

The Russian paradigm of BVR combat has its origins in the Cold War period, when Soviet operational analysis indicated that the low kill probability of missile seekers and airframes, especially if degraded by countermeasures, would be a major impediment to success. By the 1970s the standard Soviet technique in a BVR missile launch was to salvo two rounds, a semi-active radar homing weapon and a heatseeking weapon. To this effect some Soviet fighters even included a weapons select mode which automatically sequenced the launch of two rounds for optimal separation.
A question often asked is why are Sukhoi Flanker variants equipped to carry between eight and twelve BVR missiles? The answer is a simple one - so they can fire more than one three or four round BVR missile salvo during the opening phases of an engagement. In this fashion the aircraft being targeted has a difficult problem as it must jam, decoy and/or outmanoeuvre three or four tightly spaced inbound missiles. Even if we assume a mediocre per round kill probability of 30 percent, a four round salvo still exceeds a total kill probability of 75 percent.A competent Flanker driver gets the first shot with three or four round salvo of long burn R-27 variants, with mixed seekers, leaving one or two remaining salvoes of BVR missiles on his rails, and the same Flanker driver will have modern DRFM monopulse jammers capable of causing likely much more than a 50 percent degradation of AIM-120 kill probability. With a thrust vectoring engine capability (TVC), the Flanker driver has the option of making himself into a very difficult endgame target for the AIM-120 regardless of the capability of his jamming equipment. Since all of the AIM-120s fired are identical in kinematic performance and seeker jam resistance, any measure applied by the Flanker driver which is effective against one AIM-120 round in the salvo is apt to produce the same effect against all AIM-120 rounds - a problem the Flanker driver does not have due to diversity in seeker types and missile kinematics.Currently classified capabilities such as the use of the APG-79 or APG-81 AESA radar as an X-band high power jammer against the Russian BARS or Irbis E radar are not a panacea, and may actually hasten the demise of the F/A-18E/F or F-35 JSF in a BVR shootout. This is for the simple reason that to jam the Russian radar, the APG-79 or APG-81 AESA radar must jam the frequencies being used by the Russian radar, and this then turns the APG-79 or APG-81 AESA radar into a wholly electronically predictable X-band high power beacon for an anti-radiation seeker equipped Russian BVR missile such as the R-27EP or R-77P. The act of jamming the Russian radar effectively surrenders the frequency hopping agility in the emissions of the APG-79 or APG-81 AESA radar, denying it the only defence it has against the anti-radiation missile. A smart Russian radar software designer will include a "seduction mode" to this effect, with narrowband emissions to make it very easy even for an early model 9B-1032 anti-radiation seeker.In electronic warfare terms neither side has a decisive advantage, but the Flanker does have a decisive advantage in aircraft and missile kinematics and in having up to six times the payload of BVR missiles to expend. The simple conclusion to be drawn is that operators of the F/A-18E/F or F-35 JSF should make every effort to avoid Beyond Visual Range combat with late model Flankers, as the best case outcome is parity in exchange rates, and the worst case outcome a decisive exchange ratio advantage to the Flanker. Given the evident design choices the Russians have made, this is not an accident, but rather a consequence of well thought through operational analysis of capabilities and limitations of contemporary BVR weapon systems.Until the 1980s Soviet missile technology lagged the West in propellants, airframe designs, and guidance designs. That changed with the deployment of the R-27 and R-73 missiles during the 1980s, as these competed on a equal footing, or outperformed their Western equivalents. In kinematic terms, the WVR R-73 series, and the BVR R-27 and R-77 are highly competitive against their Western equivalents, and the long burn variants of the R-27 outperform all Western solid propellant competitors. Russian concern about Western countermeasures is reflected in a propensity since the 1980s to use dual plane monopulse seeker designs, and even the baseline Agat 9B-1101K semi-active homing seeker in the R-27R/ER variants is a classical monopulse design, built for high jam resistance.The infrared homing seeker technology used in Russian BVR missiles has also evolved considerably since the Cold War. Early R-27 Alamo variants used the legacy Geofizika 36T seeker. There are claims that more recent variants use the far more agile Arsenal Central Design Bureau Mayak/MK-80M seeker series, developed for the R-73M Adder WVR missile, and since then announced by Vympel as the seeker for the initial heatseeking variants of the R-77 Adder. The R-73 series WVR missiles have evolved, to the extent that the 'digital' K-74E variant is a highly competitive scanning two colour design, inherently resistant to many flares and with the counter-countermeasures flexibility inherent in software programmable guidance systems

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby koti » 28 Oct 2010 10:42

I was wondering about a couple of WMD scenarios.

Firstly, a scenario where during a limited short war if TSP uses a Bio weapon against India and we find out about it later when the symptoms start to emerge(weeks to months) after the war is won or called of due to international pressure. Now we cannot retaliate with limited Nuke strike as it would cause very bad effects on international arena and potentially lead to full scale Armageddon.
Can any one suggest a possible doctrine or pose that would cripple TSP from doing such a misadventure?

Secondly, a full-scale Chinese nuclear explosion under international waters adjacent to our major coastal cities could cause devastating effects on them.
This will be rather tricky as we cannot retaliate again as the attack is not directly on Indian territory.

Kindly suggest the changes or clauses that are to be added to our doctrine to deal with the above Scenarios.

Mod's I could not find a better thread to discuss this. Kindly move to more appropriate thread if necessary.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Vinit » 28 Oct 2010 15:48

koti wrote:I was wondering about a couple of WMD scenarios.

Firstly, a scenario where during a limited short war if TSP uses a Bio weapon against India and we find out about it later when the symptoms start to emerge(weeks to months) after the war is won or called of due to international pressure. Now we cannot retaliate with limited Nuke strike as it would cause very bad effects on international arena and potentially lead to full scale Armageddon.
Can any one suggest a possible doctrine or pose that would cripple TSP from doing such a misadventure?

I'll try to keep within the very specific parameters you have outlined above, viz. limited short war and deployment of bio-weapons by Pak.

Firstly, Bio-weapons are usually intended to have immediate effect, not delayed action as you have specified. I'm not ruling out a "delayed action" weapon - just that I'm not familiar with one.

Second, the objective of a bio-weapon would be to gain immediate benefit in a conflict. A delayed action one would start affecting us long after the war was over, and would serve no purpose to Pakistan, other than some sort of revenge. For example, a bio-weapon which knocked out an army division in a single area in 24 hours would benefit the side using it; something which caused deaths weeks later, as you mention, would not really help.

Third, we have to look at how this would be deployed. Bio-weapons are notoriously hard to weaponize and deliver, and even after delivery their effectiveness can vary due to multiple factors ranging from local weather to population contact. An aircraft / missile delivery would be visible to us, and we would therefore know that such a weapon had been deployed.

Finally, where would this be delivered - border region or urban area? I assume the latter, given you're specifying delayed action.

So, the scenario would involve a covert Pakistani team armed with some kind of bio-weapons sneaking into an Indian city and setting them off quietly without our knowledge ... with us coming to know of it only when the effects become apparent.

I'd love to work on this scenario, unfortunately a far better writer than me, viz. Tom Clancy, has addressed this in great detail in his "Executive Orders" ...

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 29 Oct 2010 23:14


-tower – blaze lead –approaching weapon release envelope – request confirm no friend lies in the target vicinity – weapon release in less than 50 seconds
- blaze flight – you are in clear- no friend lies –weapons free repeat weapons free
The f our Mig 29k spread out quickly ,still maintaining their lowest safe flying altitude -selected individual targets and then engaed after burner and rocketed upwards like a winged rocket at a vertivaspeed of nearly 60000 ft/min as the pilots quickly armed the R-27s and focused on the distance to target on the head up display .The SHOOT prompt came up quickly and all four of them release toggled the fire button as each of the sleek nosed heavy air to air missile dropped clear of the pylon pushed by a small ejecting piston ,lit their solid motors on command from onboard processor and started a blazing climb toward the falcons which have by now separated also and trying to dive to the ocean surface in a last ditch to avoid the incoming missiles leaving behind a cloud of chaff .

They really never had a chance

The fulcrums were powered by RD 33K engines 5500 kgf at full military power and 8800 kgf at full reheat configuration. This is essentially required for full weight carrier take off but also gives unmatched combat agility at low altitude combat flying .The RD 33K engines are equipped with full authority digital control features with RSF 59A regulator and ESU 21 digital control unit. This allows the after burning specific fuel consumption to be as low as 1.97 kg/kgf.hr and weight thrust ratio of 0.119..The engines are inclined upwards and set at 1.5 degree toe in spaced nacelles .The adjustable supersonic air intakes are raked and rectangular cross section at inlets changing to circular at compressor intake.To prevent boundary layer ingestion the intakes are set at some distance away from wing under surface so that upper lip acts as boundary layer splitter interface .The horizontal airflow control ramps create four shock wave optimizing the air flow for various flight made like transonic subsonic and supersonic
Two of the F-16 died quickly and easy as they flew into the kill envelope of R-27 fired in pairs, simply there was no escape zone . Two orange flowers bloomed almost simultaneously against blue sky background. The other two escaped the first salve and fired their own sparrow as the distance quickly closed in.
The lead Mig29 K fulcrum sharply tuned out of the projected flight path and climbed up almost at right angles ,cutting off the reheat at the sane time releasing almost dozen flares ,looped back ,deployed air brake for a few seconds as they lined up for the gun shot at the F-16 s floating straight up . At than a km the Gsh 301 was deadly and no amount of flares of chaff was effective against the deadly explosive 30mm shells which tore into them remorselessly. The shark mouthed falcons disintegrated in air before exploding into small dark clouds .

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby nits » 12 Nov 2010 16:32

and shankar sir is again taking his favourite long break... :(

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby dhruvarka » 12 Nov 2010 19:38


Two of the F-16 died quickly and easy as they flew into the kill envelope of R-27 fired in pairs, simply there was no escape zone . Two orange flowers bloomed almost simultaneously against blue sky background. The other two escaped the first salve and fired their own sparrow as the distance quickly closed in.

Are F-16s certified to fire sparrows (AIM-7)? I understand the later versions are certified for AMRAAM (AIM-120). But I have never come accross any reference to sparrows arming F-16s. Pleaase clarify.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Bala Vignesh » 12 Nov 2010 20:05

dhruvarka wrote:Shankar,

Two of the F-16 died quickly and easy as they flew into the kill envelope of R-27 fired in pairs, simply there was no escape zone . Two orange flowers bloomed almost simultaneously against blue sky background. The other two escaped the first salve and fired their own sparrow as the distance quickly closed in.

Are F-16s certified to fire sparrows (AIM-7)? I understand the later versions are certified for AMRAAM (AIM-120). But I have never come accross any reference to sparrows arming F-16s. Pleaase clarify.

Sir, Wiki syas it can carry Sparrow's. The the link
Wikipedia wrote:Early models could also be armed with up to six AIM-9 Sidewinder heat-seeking short-range air-to-air missiles (AAM), including a single missile mounted on a dedicated rail launcher on each wingtip. Some variants can also employ the AIM-7 Sparrow medium-range radar-guided AAM, and more recent versions can be equipped with the AIM-120 AMRAAM.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Bala Vignesh » 15 Nov 2010 17:13

Shankar sir,
Whatever happened to the A-4's in the strike package???

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 04 Dec 2010 03:57


I think I had been underestimating the power of this thread with regard to effects on people who are perhaps not yet members of BR because of age or other factors. A spate of emails have piled up from youngsters considering to join the Indian Armed Forces in India but who have little or some knowledge of anything military who have been reading this thread and gaining insight into the world of security issues affecting India.

Frankly, I have been deeply affected by this implicit and unappreciated (by the writers at least) impact factor of this thread. I think its about time the writers took the writing job seriously or else should leave. I have decided to take the former approach. I think we as writers owe it to the readers by making this thread as professional and in depth as possible.

Time to bring this thread back to the front page on BR.

Will restart and continue posts from today on my previous scenario.

-Vivek Ahuja

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Prem » 04 Dec 2010 04:17

Welcome back sir !!

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Prasad » 04 Dec 2010 06:45

Welcome back Ahuja ji!! :D

Hope all iz well on all fronts? Great to see you back!!

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby jamwal » 04 Dec 2010 10:32

Welcome back Vivek jee. I've been regularly checking out your website and blog for any update. How are you doing now ? What about the book we've been waiting for ?

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Bala Vignesh » 04 Dec 2010 10:45

Hooray... Vivekjee is back... Doing the lungi dance...

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby manish.rastogi » 04 Dec 2010 12:19

yayy....vivek sir is back....cant wait anymore for the scenarios...

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 04 Dec 2010 15:31

oops - vivek -ur post is deep impact
soory guys - was actually bit too involved with project tender - for the next generation of sat s of Indian origin -next post in gew hours -sorry once again

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 04 Dec 2010 15:53


blaze lead –tower - good work – we still have 8 more bogeys on deck – change course to 215 – make altitude 500 meters – ur cleared to go supersonic at this altitude – possible exocet type anti ship missile load – engage immediately –aircraft type possibly ALPHA FOUR SKYHAWK –

- tower –blaze lead –turning to heading 216 –reducing altitude 500 meters – understood cleared to go supersonic at this altitude – request confirm no friendliest in target are –over
- blaze lead –tower –read back correct – confirm no friendliest in target area – confirm fuel status
- tower –blaze lead – fuel at 46 % repeat 46 % - will have time for one missile –gun pass –then have to return or go bingo over water
- blaze lead –tower – message understood – fuel enough for one gun missile strike – re enforcements on way – good hunting once again – do not let those bas----- get through –over
- message understood – blaze flight rolling –now

The Douglas A-4 Skyhawk is a carrier-capable ground-attack aircraft designed for the United States Navy and United States Marine Corps. The delta winged, single turbojet-engined Skyhawk was designed and produced by Douglas Aircraft Company, and later McDonnell Douglas. It was originally designated the A4D under the US Navy's pre-1962 designation system.
Skyhawks played key roles in the Vietnam War, the Yom Kippur War, and the Falklands War. Fifty years after the aircraft's first flight, some of the nearly 3,000 produced remain in service with several air arms around the world, including with the Brazilian Navy's aircThe aircraft is of conventional post-World War II design, with a low-mounted delta wing, tricycle undercarriage, and a single turbojet engine in the rear fuselage, with two air intakes on the fuselage sides. The tail is of cruciform design, with the horizontal stabilizer mounted above the fuselage. Armament consisted of two 20 mm (.79 in caliber) Colt Mk 12 cannons, one in each wing root, with 200 rpg, plus a large variety of bombs, rockets, and missiles carried on a hard point under the fuselage centerline and hard points under each wing (originally one per wing, later two).

The choice of a delta wing, for example, combined speed and maneuverability with a large fuel capacity and small overall size, thus not requiring folding wings, albeit at the expense of cruising efficiency. The leading edge slats were designed to drop automatically at the appropriate speed by gravity and air pressure, saving weight and space by omitting actuation motors and switches. Similarly the main undercarriage did not penetrate the main wing spar, designed so that when retracted only the wheel itself was inside the wing and the undercarriage struts were housed in a fairing below the wing. The wing structure itself could be lighter with the same overall strength and the absence of a wing folding mechanism further reduced weight. This is the opposite of what can often happen in aircraft design where a small weight increase in one area leads to a compounding increase in weight in other areas to compensate, leading to the need for more powerful, heavier engines and so on in a vicious circle. The A-4 pioneered the concept of "buddy" air-to-air refueling. This allows the aircraft to supply others of the same type, eliminating the need of dedicated tanker aircraft—a particular advantage for small air arms or when operating in remote locations. This allows for greatly improved operational flexibility and reassurance against the loss or malfunction of tanker aircraft, though this procedure reduces the effective combat force on board the carrier. A designated supply A-4 would mount a center-mounted "buddy store", a large external fuel tank with a hose reel in the aft section and an extensible drogue refueling bucket. This aircraft was fueled up without armament and launched first. Attack aircraft would be armed to the maximum and given as much fuel as was allowable by maximum takeoff weight limits, far less than a full tank. Once airborne, they would then proceed to top off their fuel tanks from the tanker using the A-4's fixed refueling probe on the starboard side of the aircraft nose. They could then sortie with both full armament and fuel loads.

During the 1982 Falklands War, armed with unguided bombs and lacking any electronic or missile self-defense, Argentine Air Force Skyhawks sank the Type 42 Destroyer HMS Coventry and the Type 21 Frigate HMS Antelope as well as inflicting heavy damage on several others: the RFA Sir Galahad (1966) (which was subsequently scuttled as a war grave), the Type 42 HMS Glasgow, the Leander Class Frigate HMS Argonaut, the Type 22 Frigate HMS Broadsword, and the RFA Sir Tristram. Argentine Navy A-4Qs, flying from Río Grande, Tierra del Fuego naval air station, also played a role in the bombing attacks against British ships, destroying the Type 21 HMS Ardent.
All in all the 8 A4 sky hawks now approaching the Vikramaditya task group was by itself a formidable threat and needed be neutralized quickly

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 04 Dec 2010 16:31

DAY 5 + 1035 HRS

Colonel Sudarshan walked out of his CP, formed from a group of two modified BMP-2s with their troop carrying area stowed with radios and with camouflaged netting extended over the rear. As his command staff ran about with various jobs and crises to solve, he took it all in with his senses. The continuous distant rumble just over the CP’s LOS was a constant reminder that a war was being fought that very instant. The radios were alive with the incoming traffic from the small unit commanders of the various Mechanized Battalions committed into the fight that morning. Much of the current work at the CP was simply to eavesdrop on the conversations taking place between the Battalion Squadron commanders and the Battalion CPs, all of which were listed on one of the screens of the battlefield computers set up on a table just outside the hatch of one of the command vehicles. This eavesdropping on friendly forces was allowing Sudarshan to keep track of the battle being fought without constantly interfering with the Battalion commanders demanding updates. He also had a couple of Nishant UAVs just overhead of the advancing forces, giving him and his junior Battalion commanders a three dimensional battle-space viewpoint.

But nothing beats commanding Battalions from the front...thought the Colonel as he folded his cold hands into a fist and saw the whitish skin turn pink as blood returned to it. He looked at his hand before a crumble of distant thunder caused him to look back up to the east. That was where the battle was. A couple of days ago he had taken charge of the ‘A’ Squadron BMPs and led it during the desperate early battles for control of DBO alongside Brigadier Adesara’s 5TH Infantry Brigade. That sole squadron of BMP-II vehicles from the 10TH MECH Battalion along with a Troop each of NAMICA AT Vehicles and T-72Ms had at the time constituted the entire Mechanized force that existed around DBO when the Chinese had come charging in with their armored forces. The maneuver warfare that had enveloped DBO and turned it into a smoldering cauldron of broken and burning tanks and men had also seen 5 INF pushed to the very perimeters of the airstrip around DBO. The T-72M Troop had suffered cent percent casualties with their tanks now littered in front of the current 5 INF lines. The same battle had also seen A/10 MECH lose more than a third of their ICVs in a few hours. The battle had cost the Chinese dearly too, and their current drive towards taking the whole of Northern Laddakh had been stalled temporarily. But that was two days ago.

Since the time of the first battles, the Indian Army units pushing from Shyok through Saser to DBO along the main Divisional Main Supply Route or DIV-MSR had begun to bring in much needed reinforcements. With the arrival of the remaining two Squadrons and other support elements of the 10TH Mechanized Battalion, the unit had come to full strength minus the losses in its third squadron. Behind that force had arrived the 55 ICV force each of the 3RD and 4TH Mechanized Battalions, with the 8TH on its way from Leh. 5TH and 6TH Mechanized Battalions had been planned for surge to the southeast towards Chushul and beyond to Demchok where other major battles were underway. With three major Battalions under his command and fourth arriving soon, Colonel Sudarshan was essentially in command of a Mechanized Division of roughly 200+ vehicles, counting the attached NAMICA vehicles and even a few T-72 Troops. It was at that time that he had handed over command of the 10TH MECH Battalion over its new CO, and taken over the reins at the main forward CP of what constituted the only Indian Mechanized Division currently in the Himalayas. There were rumors that the Divisional Commander at Leh had been notified to release this Mechanized Division over to a new Divisional Staff who would take over the command once the reinforcing Infantry Brigade arrived alongside the Mechanized units into the DBO sector and brought local Infantry units up to a decent defensive posture. Colonel Sudarshan was unsure what his role remained at that point, but he deemed the chances of him getting relieved pretty slim at the moment.

The problems on the ground were far worse than anything the commanders at Army HQ could imagine but which were plainly obvious to field commanders such as Sudarshan and Adesara. On paper the “Mechanized Division” concept was very appealing given its makeup and current positions of advantage south of the Chip-Chap river valley wherein it was strategically placed to slice southeastwards into the Aksai Chin, perhaps even demolishing the Chinese Galwan Valley offensive that was currently underway and threatening to cut off the DIV-MSR. In reality, however, the forces were stretched out over a vast front fighting isolated battles with little coherence trying to control the Chinese advance. Even the thought of disengaging them to reestablish Divisional Coherence was impossible. The Chinese were applying pressure over a vast front and clearly outnumbered the Indian units. In addition, the equipment advantage was enormously stacked against the light armored Indian Mechanized Battalions with the Chinese brining in their main MBTs into the fight very early on. As of right now, there was not even an Armored Squadron in the DBO sector, let alone the Regiment level forces required to support the push of a Mechanized Division.

Further, the losses in vehicles had been heavy for the units already engaged in the fight. 3 MECH was engaged to the north of the Chip-Chap valley and had been mauled in its efforts to fix the enemy armored units while 4 MECH and 10 MECH units maneuvered southeast. 10 MECH was now heavily engaged and fully committed in trying to cut off the Chinese Divisional Passage of lines taking place north of them just beyond the LAC. Only 4 MECH remained available for independent thrusts southeast into the Aksai Chin. 8 MECH was not even in the DBO sector yet, stretched out as it was all along the congested traffic along the DIV-MSR from Shyok to Sul-Tan Chhushku, south of Saser. 5 INF was depleted in numbers with the two Gurkha Battalions under it supporting 3 MECH operations getting pinned down under superior Chinese Divisional Artillery shelling. Regardless, Army and Corps Level Command had rejected the Divisional Commanders recommendations against adding yet another level of bureaucracy and command link by sending the new Divisional Staff and equipment to take over the “Mechanized Division” operating in the DBO sector.

Idiots. Here we are: a thin thread away from losing the entire DBO sector and there they are, at Army Command, watching the pins move on the map and thinking of imaginary offensive pushes into the Aksai Chin...Sudarshan thought as he saw yet another supply truck being pushed out a slushy quagmire of wet mud and snow by the soldiers. Even his shoes were wet and cold from being ankle deep in snow and mud. Vehicular traffic along the MSR for the 4 MECH and 10 MECH units operating east of Sudarshan’s CP was now a little more than a much trampled on trail in the snow on which continuous convoys were rolling eastwards with supplies and ammunition and coming back with wounded soldiers and broken down equipment. As he watched, one of the armored recovery vehicles or ARV, of the 10TH Mechanized Battalion pulled past in a rumble, pulling behind it a badly damaged but relatively intact BMP-2. The tracks had blown off as a result of some explosion and the hatches were opened wide, the blood stains clearly marking the route taken by the injured crewmembers as they must have debussed from their vehicles. Sudarshan could watch no further.
He walked back into his CP to see the grim faces of his staff members around him. His operations officer, a Major, walked over to him with a sitrep:

“3RD MB is again bogged down, taken losses and unable to advance. 199-H-U LCHs destroyed several T-99s and ZBDs in that sector but otherwise the frontlines remain unchanged. Brigadier Adesara has pulled the entire Gurkha force and the remaining vehicles of 3RD MB back west towards the Citadel Defensive lines. 10TH MB is making progress, but under heavy fire from the surrounding hills. Lt-Col Sharma is reporting that he is now encountering increasing numbers of Chinese armored vehicles as he is approaching the enemy DIV-MSR. The Chinese seem to be pulling units off the incoming convoys and diverting them south towards the 10TH MB forces to try and cut their advance off. 4TH MB is on reserve and awaiting orders to begin FEBA breaching operations southeast of the LAC.”

Sudarshan took the paper from his S-2 and then walked over to the map board. He looked at it a few seconds before he spoke again: “10 MECH is not going to be able to hold the Chinese DIV-MSR even if they take it now. It’s just taking too long and the Chinese are clearly now receiving their reinforcements along that MSR. We could pull 4 MECH back and use them to try and hold on to the chicken’s neck here along the Chinese MSR, but that will mean we scrub our attack mission for 4 MECH southeast into the Aksai Chin region. Else we pull back 10 MECH to their earlier starting lines and put them on defensive positions and let 4 MECH do their mission with 10 MECH forces protecting their left flank. But how long is that single Battalion push going to last?” Colonel Sudarshan shook his head before he turned to his comms-officer: “Get me Brigadier Adesara at 5 INF HQ”

“BLUE-LIMA-ONE, this is THUNDER-ONE-ACTUAL. Stand by for traffic. Over”
“THUNDER-ONE, this is BLUE-LIMA-ONE-ACTUAL. Standing by for traffic. Over”

“BLUE-LIMA-ONE-ACTUAL, lead elements confirm arrival of RED-STEEL along DIV-MSR. Reporting considerable casualties. Am I to understand continual of OP-PLAN-ONE? Over!”
“THUNDER-ONE-ACTUAL, can you sustain OP-PLAN-ONE towards completion? Over!”

“Negative, with current resources. Suggest scrubbing OP-PLAN-TWO and diverting resources to hold defensive positions pending arrival of reinforcements. Over”
“Copy all, THUNDER-ONE-ACTUAL. Stand-by for DIV-COM update. Deploy DIV-ARTY in supporting role and disengage lead elements. Pull back to defensive locations. Do not, repeat: do not scrub OP-PLAN-TWO. Divisional orders. Stand by for updates. Request Hard-Copy. Over”

“Uh...that’s a solid copy on all, BLUE-LIMA-ONE-ACTUAL. Out”

Sudarshan handed over the R/T speaker back to the signals officer sitting inside the vehicle as he turned to his S-2:
“Division wants us to continue the plan to deploy 4 MECH in an offensive role. Problem is, if 10 MECH gets overrun by Chinese tanks, 4 MECH is going to get cut off inside the Aksai Chin. This is what happens when you run wars from a map board with pins and overrule field commander inputs. Division Command is about to turn the only real chance we have to control the Chinese advance by turning it into an encirclement of stretched friendly Battalions inside the Aksai Chin.”

“Maybe they will see the threat to their plans at Leh and give us the orders to redeploy 4 and 10 MECH units into a defensive cordon around DBO.” The Major offered.

“Maybe. Let’s see. We will come to know soon just what is going on at DIV-COM...”

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 04 Dec 2010 16:33


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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 04 Dec 2010 16:35

DAY 5 + 1120 HRS (L)

Colonel Feng read the report that showed the back-up BIG-BIRD radars coming online in southeast Aksai Chin following the destruction of the primary radar systems by IAF Jaguar strikes in what had been a very elaborate and deceptive takedown of the Chinese Air Force’s Aksai Chin S-300 coverage capabilities a day ago. Now that system was back up again, though if these radar units were again attacked somehow, there would no replacements for some time. For now, the force resurrection capabilities that Colonel Feng had himself supervised had allowed the Chinese Air Force to stand back up on its feet.

But the attacks had not been completely free of cost for the IAF either. They had lost two of the strike mission Jaguars in the attack to low altitude point defense weapons around the radar sites. Out of these aircraft, only one crewmember had been able to safely eject and make it to the ground only to find himself captured by the Chinese soldiers. And what a catch it is...Feng thought as he read another report detailing the capture. A Group-Captain Verma had been captured and was now due for arrival at Kashgar on board a Mi-17. Surely the mission commander...Feng realized as he read the intelligence file on G/C Verma of the IAF “Tuskers” Strike Squadron. Interesting...

Feng turned to hear the sound of the incoming rotor noises and saw the morning sun glistening off the Mi-17 approaching for a landing on the tarmac even as a group of armed Air Force Guards ran off to greet the new guest of the Chinese Air Force. As the helicopter landed and the pilots switched off the engines, the cabin door opened and showed a blindfolded man in his mid forties being led out by additional soldiers and a couple of CAF officers. Feng smiled as he walked over to the group of men heading towards him. As soon as he was in front of the group the soldiers restrained Verma from moving forward, since he could not see anything through his blindfold. The CAF officers snapped off a salute to the Colonel and he returned the gesture before turning to Verma:

“Welcome to the People’s Republic of China, Group-Captain Verma. I apologize for the condition of your arrival but as you can imagine, the external conditions were extraordinary. While you are here, you are a guest of the Chinese Air Force.” Feng turned to the CAF Intelligence officers escorting Verma and spoke in Chinese:

“Remove the blindfold. Make sure the Group-Captain gets food and water. He is not to be ill-treated or I will have the people responsible for it, shot.”

The two officers snapped off a quick yes and quickly removed the blindfold. Verma hadn’t seen light of any kind for over a day now, and the bright morning sunlight caused him to wince for a few seconds before he looked around and saw a senior Chinese officer standing in front of him wearing the shoulder-boards of a Senior-Colonel of the Chinese Air Force. The bright red star on his fur cap could not be missed, and neither was the seemingly genuine smile on the ragged face.

“Group-Captain Verma, as you can see, the Chinese Air Force is in complete control of the skies over the battlefield to the south. We even flew you here during daylight in an unarmed helicopter and no escorts. Within a few days our ground armies will have defeated the outnumbered Brigades of your Army and taken over the entire Laddakh region. Expect to meet a lot more of your friends here soon.” Feng said in crisp English.

“Really, Colonel? All I remember seeing during the night of my capture was the exploding fireballs of your vaunted radar sites in the Aksai Chin under my cluster bombs. And the rest of my boys made it home for dinner. You should probably check with your field commanders about the status of the war because it looks like you are being fed what we like to call as bull-crap!” Verma retorted in English, the only language he knew apart from his mother tongue and the language in which the Chinese officer had engaged him in conversation.

“Ah yes, your famed attack against my radar sites. They were nothing more than pin-pricks, Verma.” Feng shook the files in his hand... “As of this morning, those holes you created have already been plugged. In addition, our missiles claimed two more of your squadron Jaguars this morning and we even have reports coming in that the Tuskers unit -your unit- is now so combat depleted that it is being replaced on the front lines by another unit. So your WSO and your other crew died for nothing. Our S-300s still remain active and your unit continues to breathe its dying breaths.” Feng replied.

“Well, buddy, we will see about that. I hope you have bunkers here, because it won’t be long before my boys will be visiting you with a special delivery from me.” Verma retorted before squinting again in the sunlight shining in his eyes.

“Well yes, Group-Captain Verma, as you said: we will see. I had hoped to meet my counterpart in this current situation and I have. Hopefully we will meet under better circumstances as well. As for our little chat, we will continue it later. You can probably imagine, right this instant I have a war to fight...” Feng offered a smile before nodding to the Intel officers to escort G/C Verma back inside the holding area awaiting interrogation. Verma didn’t realize it, but he had just conversed with the man who had probably saved his right to live as a POW inside a Chinese war zone. Feng had gone to great lengths to have Verma transferred under the control of the Chinese Air Force rather than the communist party intelligence officers whose brutality in situations such as the current one was notorious. But Feng would not allow such a thing to happen to a person he considered a professional adversary, not a street criminal. Not many others around him agreed, and so it was truly Verma’s luck that he found himself under Feng’s control. But if Verma didn’t talk soon, that control would be lost. Feng thought about that, sighed as watched Verma leaving the tarmac alongside the escorting soldiers in a small convoy of vehicles and then left the field to go back to his own command center.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 04 Dec 2010 16:41

DAY 5 + 1130 HRS (L)

“So my friend, what will you have to drink? And close the door behind you.” Chen motioned his left hand towards the array of whiskey and rum bottles on a small table in the corner of the office. Feng took the three steps into the office needed to close the door behind him and walked over to the table and inspected the bottles. He did not wish to drink so early in the day, if at all, but he did not wish to offend the sensibilities of a three star general, either. While his back was to the general, looking over the years on the stacked bottles, he brought himself to smile a bit: what can you say about the state of the war where generals and senior officers talk about fine whiskey rather than logistics and strategies?

A burst of laughter from the old general caused Feng to jerk back from facing the bottle and turn around to see his mentor laughing from behind the table where he was seated, mocking Feng’s inability to bring himself to drink while on duty...

“You are so predictable, Feng! So very predictable!” the laugh continued some more, and Feng brought himself to smile, remove his coat and hang it on a stand before tossing his cap on the table and sitting down across from Lt. Gen. Chen, commander of Chinese Air Forces in the Sinkiang Sector.

Feng was short on time...heck, he had no time whatsoever, but this was not a social get-together with his boss, who was perhaps a little drunk at the moment. Not that it showed. Not one bit. Chen’s mind was as sharp as the first day a young Major Feng had seen him as a Colonel at one of the Manchurian airbases during an inspection so many years ago. Chen liked to drink, but it never dulled his mind. Feng would not have made him his mentor otherwise...

Feng picked up his small glass of rum and brought it forward for a toast. Chen did the same. Both men had not rested for four days now since the war started. And it was beginning to show around their eyes. The power of the drinks however brought a momentary freshness and both men shook it off, Feng struggling more than his boss. The table between them was littered with reports, maps, charts and markers among a bunch of other personal items, including Chen’s fur cap and his personal sidearm holster. On the side lay his personal identification data cards. Feng surveyed the table and waited impatiently for the general to say something. Time was of the essence!

“So Colonel...” Chen said after a seeming eternity, leaning back into his chair as he spoke, “Would you say that we have accomplished what the Army and the CMC had asked of us when this madness began six days ago?”

Feng considered his response. Chen was known to bait his people in such conversations, sometimes humorously and sometimes not. Of course the victim never knew what it was. But Feng could take his hints. He and Chen were alone and the senior Political Commissar was nowhere to be seen. So this conversation, lubricated by drinks was intended to be frank and honest, and not party propaganda. Good...thought Feng as he put down his glass back on the table before speaking:
“Indeed we have, sir...”

“But...?” Chen asked with a raised eyebrow.

“But the situation has changed since the operations began. The ground war has not gone as expected. The army is still stuck only a few kilometres inside Indian Territory when they should have been a dozen or more kilometres deep by now. Our operations were hinged on their accomplishment of terrain objectives! When they failed, they put us in an ugly situation as well. I...” Feng was cut off by Chen with a raised finger: “The army has not failed, Feng. We represent the power of the communist party of China! We cannot fail!”

Feng could feel the sudden chill in the room as the general’s tone changed: “We cannot fail...but we do have to adapt now, for the sake of the country and people we represent.” Chen picked up his glass and poured in some water as he spoke: “We accomplished, although with much heavier losses than we had hoped for, the original combat action plan we set out to accomplish. If that fool of a commander that was in charge of this office before me had used his head instead of his guts, he might have still been in possession of the latter by now.”

Chen paused and drank the entire contents of his glass as Feng listened without emotion. He had heard what had happened to Major-Gen. Zhigao, the former CAF sub-regional commander at Kashgar. Zhigao had been behind the ill fated decision to confront the Indian Air Force defensive fighter force head on with the entire force of his Su-27s and J-10s a few days ago. That bloody battle was now known within the staff officers of Feng’s command as the battle of Hacho Chu, named after the river over which the major air combat actions took place between the CAF Su-27s and J-10s and Indian Mig-29s and Su-30s. It had ended in disaster for the Chinese forces, although it had left the Indians with a severe bloody nose too. With the defeat of the local air-superiority fighter force under Kashgar command, the initiative had been handed to the Indians by Zhigao’s actions. Had it now been for the Aksai Chin Air Defence sector created by Colonel Feng involving S-300s spread in redundant, overlapping fire-zones, the Chinese army would have found itself advancing under hostile skies. And no army had ever won an offensive under hostile skies. Right now, the skies weren’t blue for the Chinese, but rather neutral, and that was about the best that could be done right now...

Major-General Zhigao had not been left with much time to ponder the consequences of his actions. He had been immediately relieved of duty by Lieutenant-General Chen himself and who had in turn placed operational control into Feng’s able hands. Zhigao had been arrested by the CMC’s security directorate and had been flown off in a transport back to Beijing for debriefing. Chen had recently confirmed that the ‘debriefing’ at CAF Supreme HQ had been swift and clear. Zhigao had seen his last rays of sunlight this morning...

“That fool cost us our offensive teeth. I would have shot him myself if General Chao had not wanted the pleasure himself!” Chen said as he gritted his teeth and turned back to Feng, this time leaning forward on the table:

“Feng: new game plan. Options?”

“Few...” Feng conceded. “Major airbases are still in action, and probably will remain in action throughout the engagement given their distance. However, their distance also prevents us from using our own short range aircraft. We only have two airbases within action range for the J-8s in air defence roles and that’s here and at Hotien. Hotien, however is piled up with army logistical sorties. I suggest we base the fresh batch of J-11s at the northern airbases at Wulumuqi, Urumqi and Korla. I have my tankers and AEW aircraft based at Uxxaktal for now. It maximizes their efficiency in supporting Su-27 operations from the other three bases. Its close enough to this northern fighter base complex that when we can let our boys take off with full weapons, tank half way through along the N40 parallel and then head down south for operations. And it’s far enough out that the Indians can’t touch it with their infernal Brahmos missiles. Any attempt to take out these bases by aircraft would have to fly over our S-300 defensive zones over the Aksai Chin, Hotien and Kashgar as well as the Su-27 patrols. We can move them around if required though...”

Feng looked back up from the map on the table that both men were poring over. Chen nodded agreement before speaking: “We may have to play defensive for a while till we are ready. Make sure that all support is given to protecting the SAM sites around this southern sector until we can replace the losses we have encountered. Once that happens, we need to take out the Indian Northern airbases completely. I have my army counterparts breathing down my neck to take out that damn Leh stronghold. Our cruise missiles are not proving effective in the mountains, so let’s not waste them. The only sure way is to seize control of the skies above Leh!”

Chen grunted as he went back to looking at the map: “A tall order indeed, my friend.”

“It would be a lot easier for us right now if those cowards at Rawalpindi get their act together. During the disaster at Hacho Chu, they sent two F-16s! TWO! And they did not engage either! They got a lock on from the Indian Migs, returned the favour and bugged out!” Feng blurted out.

Chen laughed at the temerity of their allies and then smiled as he leaned back in the chair, his shoulder-board golden stars and medals glistening in the room’s light:

“That might change too!”

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Pratyush » 04 Dec 2010 17:06

Sir Jee,

Bliss don disappear like the last time. :P

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