Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Jul 2011 22:20

so that the launcher aircraft doesn't become collateral damage, hain jee ?

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 06 Jul 2011 02:52

How? It would be free fall till the fire starts

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 06 Jul 2011 05:36

arijitkm wrote:But in the picture (also link from DRDO page
http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/productsgallery ... HOOTER.jpg )

How it functions ? what's the utility ?

I think the Snow shooter is a non lethal weapon to lob snow balls.
This what I got from Wiki
"The snow shooter is a weapon for levels in the snow gate. It shoots a single snowball. You have to draw it before you can use it.It uses snow balls for ammunition. Snow balls are found by ground pounding a pile of snow in snow Gate levels. "
It can be configured to shoot a series of snow balls from a store of snowballs.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Jul 2011 06:04

AdityaM wrote:How? It would be free fall till the fire starts

Free fall will not penetrate a concrete runway. The parachute allows the launch aircraft to get away as the rocket blast is directed upwards. The parachute slows the munition and it turns nose down and the rocket motor blasts it into the earth where it explodes after a time delay. The idea is to dig up concrete and blast a big crater in the runway.

Mark Walpole · Post by **Mark Walpole** » 06 Jul 2011 14:52

Cross posting from the Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments thread

VinodTK wrote: Indian Army Looks Overseas for Acquiring Variety of Ammunition
The Indian Army is planning to procure a variety of ammunition and assault rifles to the tune of $ 1 billion from the overseas market in order to arm the additional troops along the Sino-Indian border. The procurement includes 122 mm howitzer ammunition, 160mm mortar High Explosive (HE) ammunition, carbines and a variety of ammunition for the carbines.

The tender for the procurement has been issued to Germany’s Heckler and Koch, Israel Weapon Industries Ltd (IWI), Colt Defense of United States, Bushmaster Firearms International and Singapore Technologies Kinetics Limited. The requirement of carbines is 44,000 units along with variety of ammunition.

Besides the carbines and its ammunition, Indian Army will also acquire magazines, bayonets,(???WHY) slings, reflex sights and visible and invisible laser spot designators. The Indian Army has also specified that it is looking for a 5.56 mm calibre system with a rate of fire of 660 rounds a minute as well as a 10,730 light-weight assault rifles for its special forces.

India has also invited bids for acquisition of 5,178 numbers of 160mm Mortar High Explosive ammunition along with Fuze. The 160mm High Explosive (HE) bomb will be used for support of ground troops and armoured units and the High Explosive bomb should be functional with both fragmentation and blast effects. The HE bomb is an aerodynamically shaped, fin-stabilized projectile designed to give maximum stability and accuracy. The total weight of the bomb should be 38.5 kilograms with the shell body weight of 29.15 kilograms and HE filling of 4.85 kilograms. The length should be 870mm. The HE bomb should be provided with the PDM-111-A2 fuze which is a point detonating fuze, incorporating both super quick and delay action.

India has also invited bids for acquiring 122mm Howitzer as well as 33,700 numbers of 122mm Reduce charge are required. The shelf life of the Howitzer ammunition should be 15 years under sheltered conditions during peace time. The ammunition should be compatible with the 122MM howitzer gun.

I was just wondering if our armed forces still used items like 160 mm mortar and 122 mm towed artillery systems. I was of the impression that these systems were phased out of most armed forces in the world.

Artillery systems were being streamlined between 105 mm and 155 mm howitzers.

Is this news article a mistake by the source or is there an actual possibility of using these systems ??

As the article only mentions the ammunition for the 160 mm mortar i assume we already have the artillery system in place.. It would be nice to know what kind of 160mm mortar our forces operate.

arijitkm · Post by **arijitkm** » 06 Jul 2011 23:03

Shrinivasan wrote:
arijitkm wrote:But in the picture (also link from DRDO page
http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/productsgallery ... HOOTER.jpg )

How it functions ? what's the utility ?
I think the Snow shooter is a non lethal weapon to lob snow balls.
This what I got from Wiki
"The snow shooter is a weapon for levels in the snow gate. It shoots a single snowball. You have to draw it before you can use it.It uses snow balls for ammunition. Snow balls are found by ground pounding a pile of snow in snow Gate levels. "
It can be configured to shoot a series of snow balls from a store of snowballs.

Thanks Shriniji, for clarification.

But how it counter the aggressive enemy, who has been more packed with lethal weapons ?
Or be used for other purpose (i.e. to create avalanche, etc.).

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 07 Jul 2011 01:37

shiv wrote:The parachute slows the munition and it turns nose down

Thanks. This explains it

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 07 Jul 2011 10:07

Mark Walpole wrote: I was just wondering if our armed forces still used items like 160 mm mortar and 122 mm towed artillery systems. I was of the impression that these systems were phased out of most armed forces in the world.

Artillery systems were being streamlined between 105 mm and 155 mm howitzers.

Is this news article a mistake by the source or is there an actual possibility of using these systems ??

As the article only mentions the ammunition for the 160 mm mortar i assume we already have the artillery system in place.. It would be nice to know what kind of 160mm mortar our forces operate.

We have something around 30 Regiments of D-30 122mm guns. As for 160mm mortars, IIRC, they were slated to be phased out but proved their mettle during the Kargil conflict and were retained post that. I'm not aware about numbers or if there was any increment in the number of regiments post that. Also, a weapon system needs to be seen in Indian context and not what others are doing.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 07 Jul 2011 11:07

BRAdmins, Can we have a separate thread for Offset suggestions? you never know - MOD or IAF brass might see that and take inspiration... "I have a dream...."

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 07 Jul 2011 11:10

rohitvats wrote:We have something around 30 Regiments of D-30 122mm guns. As for 160mm mortars, IIRC, they were slated to be phased out but proved their mettle during the Kargil conflict and were retained post that. I'm not aware about numbers or if there was any increment in the number of regiments post that. Also, a weapon system needs to be seen in Indian context and not what others are doing.

I had a question on the 122mm Arty and 160mm Mortars... do we manufacture them inhouse...I am surprised we have 30 Regiments of D-30 but Wiki or other sources don't even list us as an operator. i need a favor on the Arty front... will email you.

Mark Walpole · Post by **Mark Walpole** » 07 Jul 2011 19:42

rohitvats wrote:
We have something around 30 Regiments of D-30 122mm guns. As for 160mm mortars, IIRC, they were slated to be phased out but proved their mettle during the Kargil conflict and were retained post that. I'm not aware about numbers or if there was any increment in the number of regiments post that. Also, a weapon system needs to be seen in Indian context and not what others are doing.

Ahh cool thanks for clearing that up for me. Now that i know what they are i think ive been to a live fire exercise in nasik to see these many moons ago..

what are the advantages of having a system like the D-30 over the proposed F777 being bought by the armed forces. I reckon the cost mite been an issue with the F777 costing 4.5 million a piece according to wiki data (im assuming that the whole package includes maintenance spares ammunition etc) but with the desperate situation our artillery is as of now ..wont it be more advisable to come up with a better deal with BAE systems and the concerned governments on a ToT ishtyle deal for a much larger number of artillery pieces.
It would in my opinion streamline the forces much more rather than having a few different systems dotted around with their separate logistic requirements. (just my opinion as im a noob in these areas)

With regards to the 160mm mortar system I reckon it would be handy as a quickfire indirect support weapon in hilly areas as compared to full blown artillery pieces specially with the proposed HE and thermobaric shells. It would be cool to know the spec of these pieces as in the dimension barrel length and crew required to man these machine in the IA.

aniket · Post by **aniket** » 07 Jul 2011 20:23

A picture from the the Atlantique Incident.This is the picture of the aircraft as seen from the HUD of the Mig-21
http://static.newworldencyclopedia.org/ ... c_kill.jpg

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jul 2011 00:27

Chacko, You are quite a prolific reporter. More power to you.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jul 2011 07:26

aniket wrote:A picture from the the Atlantique Incident.This is the picture of the aircraft as seen from the HUD of the Mig-21
http://static.newworldencyclopedia.org/ ... c_kill.jpg

Check the watermark at bottom left

sum · Post by **sum** » 08 Jul 2011 22:22

aniket wrote:A picture from the the Atlantique Incident.This is the picture of the aircraft as seen from the HUD of the Mig-21
http://static.newworldencyclopedia.org/ ... c_kill.jpg

Wonder if the PNS Mehran miscreants also will release the screenshot of their HUD when they were targeting the Atlantique(s) which IN failed to clean up?

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 08 Jul 2011 22:36

sum wrote: Wonder if the PNS Mehran miscreants also will release the screenshot of their HUD when they were targeting the Atlantique(s) which IN failed to clean up?

Sumunullah,
They were not targeting Atlantique. They went to fry onions.. Sorry i meant Orions..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Jul 2011 08:19

sum wrote: Wonder if the PNS Mehran miscreants also will release the screenshot of their HUD

Pliss excuse. Can't resist. Well the "miscreants" certainly released a cumshot at Pakistan's H&D onlee.

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 09 Jul 2011 12:51

A newbie pooch.

Can a tank on its own go over the Khardungla or would it be carried by its trailer?

Asking because i was there a few days back and saw the road being widened.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 09 Jul 2011 13:03

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/sco ... ml#photo=5

please identify this TFTA vehicle

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 09 Jul 2011 13:16

^^^
M113p
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M113_armor ... el_carrier

sum · Post by **sum** » 09 Jul 2011 21:09

Bala Vignesh wrote:Sumunullah,
They were not targeting Atlantique. They went to fry onions.. Sorry i meant Orions..

Wasn't one atlantique also damaged? ( Or maybe it was the jingo in me who wanted it damaged!)

bmallick · Post by **bmallick** » 13 Jul 2011 11:39

Modern Landing Platform Dock (LPD) - Has both Well Deck for troops & equipment carriage/deployment and Hangar & Flight Deck
Modern Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) - Has both Well Deck for troops & equipment carriage and Hangar & Flight Deck

So is the difference between the two only that, in case of LPD the emphasis is on troops & equipment /deployment, where as in a LHD it is the aviation facilities that have more emphasis? Hence LPD has more larger well deck whereas LHD bigger hangar?

Generally, most amphibious assault fleets have LPD & LHD, therefore is it possible to come up with a single design so that we can have a cheaper fleet?

mikehurst · Post by **mikehurst** » 14 Jul 2011 11:12

Hey, been seeing the shortform "SDRE" a lot on this site. What does it stand for.

sum · Post by **sum** » 14 Jul 2011 14:20

^^ SDRE

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 18 Jul 2011 01:51

Saala is this an Optical Illusion due to that swathe of paint or are all single seater 29's रीढ़ की हड्डी like this onlee?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Jul 2011 06:39

saddle fuel tank on SMT upgrade, it is there on our mig-29 upg too.

looks ugly.

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 18 Jul 2011 08:59

for aircraft carrier design why isn't the LCS trimaran design is being considered? for example a mistral sized ship at the center flanked by longish corvette type vessels on either side, the flat top overlays all the three with a deck underneath allowing for flights to be parked inside. Here is how the width is accounted for,

15m (left hull) + 20m + 30m (Mistral class hull) + 20m (wing with the depth of a underneath deck) + 15m (right hull) = 100m in width and say 200m in length

the left and right hull support runways

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 18 Jul 2011 09:21

Rahul M wrote:saddle fuel tank on SMT upgrade, it is there on our mig-29 upg too.
looks ugly.

baaah naam hein bongali breaperi so dont be so touchy hain!!!

I do think though that saddle tank was necessary for the fulcrum given the chronic short legs onlee. If anything I think it'd probably be one of the most non obstructing cfts around in terms of increasing drag no?

you know how we have read umpteen articles going when fighting the falcon fulcrum is this and that and short legged and blah blah...well IMVVHO its gonna be very different with this upgrade...I can smell freshly cut falcon blood...AOA

negi · Post by **negi** » 18 Jul 2011 09:27

There goes RahulM's babe.

mikehurst · Post by **mikehurst** » 18 Jul 2011 09:36

sum wrote:^^ SDRE

Thanks, it was a lot of fun- a humble SDRE

bmallick · Post by **bmallick** » 18 Jul 2011 09:50

vasu_ray wrote:for aircraft carrier design why isn't the LCS trimaran design is being considered? for example a mistral sized ship at the center flanked by longish corvette type vessels on either side, the flat top overlays all the three with a deck underneath allowing for flights to be parked inside. Here is how the width is accounted for,

15m (left hull) + 20m + 30m (Mistral class hull) + 20m (wing with the depth of a underneath deck) + 15m (right hull) = 100m in width and say 200m in length

the left and right hull support runways

Vasu trimaran, carrier had been proposed earlier too. In fact one of the proposals was for the Royal Navy http://navy-matters.beedall.com/cvf2.htm http://navy-matters.beedall.com/cvfimages/cvf-tri.jpg

However, there are serious structural issues involved here. The 20 m connections that you have proposed connecting the main hull and the side hulls, would have to be very strong to take up the required stress. The biggest problem would be twists & shear.

Imagine one of the scenarios, two waves ( like this ^ ^ ) with the main hull supported on the crests of the wave. The side hulls would be dipping in between. The amount of stress on the connections can be easily visualized. Hence structural department is the biggest obstacle for making a Trimaran Large ship. The same is applied for a catamaran carrier.

Is it impossible to make using current technology. The answer is no. Is it feasible. The answer is still no. Mind you, this current restrictions are for large vessels, we already have 4000-5000 tons catamaran ferries, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSC_Tarifa_Jet .

Hence mono-hull large ships are still being planned. In future maybe with better understanding, more knowledge and better technology we would see multi-hull large vessels zipping across the oceans, but till then we have to contend with the monohull carrier.

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 19 Jul 2011 05:34

thanks bmallick

jimmy_moh · Post by **jimmy_moh** » 20 Jul 2011 09:39

one noob doubt....

our army has around 1.3 million active troops...
and we do have same strength of reserved troops...... but who all are comes under this reserved category... i mean is it like territorial army kind of stuff..?

GopiD · Post by **GopiD** » 20 Jul 2011 18:28

Hi Friends, I am a newbie here though I have been following BR for almost 5 years now.

I have a newbie question.

I have seen a lot of discussion on BR about indian missiles, their subsystems, their accuracy, etc. But, I don't have much idea about the accuracy or the quality of pak missiles or the chinese ones. A week back, Mr. Srinivasan also had asked about this. Can we have an objective analysis about the missiles Pak/China has and their characteristics. Or, if the discussion already exists on BR, someone please direct me to the relevant threads.

ThanQ

jimmy_moh · Post by **jimmy_moh** » 21 Jul 2011 14:48

jimmy_moh wrote:one noob doubt....

our army has around 1.3 million active troops...
and we do have same strength of reserved troops...... but who all are comes under this reserved category... i mean is it like territorial army kind of stuff..?

bump..

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 22 Jul 2011 12:41

What does "Prahaar" mean for us Hindi-deficient types?

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 22 Jul 2011 12:51

Armenda,
It means strike or attack.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 22 Jul 2011 12:55

^^^
Thank you very much sir.

koti · Post by **koti** » 22 Jul 2011 17:28

Bala Vignesh wrote:Armenda,
It means strike or attack.

I was under the impression that it means something like a wall.

praaharamu.(Telugu)(sanskrit??)

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Jul 2011 17:33

prahaar means strike and in bengali also used as 'beating' (very appropriate I think). armen, I think it is used in asomiya as well.