Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby nelson » 20 Feb 2012 14:11

^ +1 to that.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Virupaksha » 20 Feb 2012 14:17

the admins have said the above discussion to be OT. and PS: -1 to that.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_20617 » 20 Feb 2012 14:44

uddu wrote:
tsarkar wrote:The George Cross does not represent any affiliation or servitude to British or Europeans. It represents affiliation to a certain methodology, professionalism and qualities like discipline, order, etc.

So what? And it seems you have such faith in the professionalism of George cross over Dharma chakra, which is surprising. And Having an Indian symbol remove those qualities or is it going to enforce the Indian qualities? I do feel that the symbol represents servitude even though no Indian solider want to be one.
tsarkar wrote:Just like all parents even 60+ years after independence like to send their children to “English Medium” school rather than “Marathi/Kannada/Bengali/Hindi” medium schools. Do they send their children to become slaves of Englishmen at “English Medium” schools? No. Do the children become slaves? No. The aspiration/affiliation for “English Medium” comes from the education methodology, professionalism and quality.

Your comparison is totally akward. English Medium is a way to learn English. The schools of tomorrow will provide students with the option to study any foreign language they may like along with their mothertongue. That never means we are becoming slaves. But Indian children will learn languages from Arabic to Zulu along with science and maths after starting the morning with Vande Mataram and saluting the Indian flag.
tsarkar wrote:The entire swadeshi brigade sends their children to “English Medium” schools. Before anyone preaches changing the Indian Navy affiliation, I would ask them to send their children to a Gurukul/Madrassa where shlokas/couplets are chanted and not much maths and science is taught. They very well know their children’s careers and hence rest of the life would be bleak if all they learnt was chanting.

Don't compare Madrass with Gurukul. They are not the same. And by the way i forget to remember that Aryabhatta went to an English school. Also the Japanese and others attend English schools and their technological superiority and discipline come from that. :rotfl:
tsarkar wrote:Similarly, in the Ancient Battles thread, you’ll find examples of indiscipline, feudalism, religious fracture plaguing local forces. Indian forces won at Arabia, Persia, ME all the way to China. The discipline led to increased self confidence. The George Cross represents the Indian Navy’s affiliation to those values.

Those kinds of things do happen due to lack of Dharma within the leaders at that time. Now brutality can win you wars. But where is your Britain today? :twisted:
tsarkar wrote:Just like students studying at Bombay Scottish school don’t become Scottish slaves. The “Scottish” represents affiliation to certain educational values.

What are those educational values? Values meant to view India and anything Indian as bad? I do feel Mumbai Indian School name with better teaching will be fear superior in all ways.


Thank you Uddu, great answer.

I am disappointed that despite kicking out British after a long struggle there are still some/many Indians who have slave mentality and want to cherish British tradition. Absolutely rotten attitude!

If Indian navy does not like blue colour then they can always go for Yellow or Red colour or damn any other colour or design except St George's cross.

There is NO shortage of design or colour. The only shortage currently is independence of mind!

We are an independent nation!Wake up Tsarkar!Wake up Indian Navy!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Virupaksha » 20 Feb 2012 15:02

Shankara, read the admins posts. advice you to delete your post.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 20 Feb 2012 15:29

abhishek_sharma wrote:Is that sufficient for killing hundreds of people? Why didn't he go to jail?

The Indians were killed for disobeying an order. And the British general was fired for killing hundreds of people. Impartial indeed.

White Skin >>>> Black / brown skin


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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Indranil » 21 Feb 2012 05:33

Has AK's blog (tarmak007) become private to invited readers? ... I keep getting this message:
This blog is open to invited readers only

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/
It doesn't look like you have been invited to read this blog. If you think this is a mistake, you might want to contact the blog author and request an invitation.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Kailash » 21 Feb 2012 18:35

Most probably civilian ports, but may be not..

India invites US to participate in port development

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby SagarAg » 21 Feb 2012 18:43

indranilroy wrote:Has AK's blog (tarmak007) become private to invited readers? ... I keep getting this message:
This blog is open to invited readers only

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/
It doesn't look like you have been invited to read this blog. If you think this is a mistake, you might want to contact the blog author and request an invitation.


His blog is facing some issues. Its up now btw. :)

BLOGGERS' NOTE: The blog was down for a day for fixing some back-end concerns -- all part of the regular house-keeping work. Many registered-members emailed saying they too weren't able to access the account and all that is fixed now. The load on the blog has increased in the last three months with too many hi-res images getting onboard, in addition to regular content. A Tarmak007.Ver2 is in the offing and until then you will have to face these occasional black-outs. Regrets to all regular users for yesterday's shut-down. --Tarmak007

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby tsarkar » 23 Feb 2012 15:52

sudeepj wrote:But lets not attach such a great significance to an individual life, that we loose sight of our strategic goals.
I wrote a response but self deleted it. All I will say is the goal needs to be worthy enough to justify the sacrifice of an individual's life.
Last edited by tsarkar on 23 Feb 2012 17:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 23 Feb 2012 17:03

shiv wrote:
tsarkar wrote:Lastly, my countrymen, Indian Navy is strong today because it’s professional, and not because it’s Indian. Ethnicity has never won battles throughout history across the world. Professionalism has on every occasion.
sarkarji, professionalism wins battles. Ethnicity tilts the balance between victory and defeat in war.


With permission from moderators, here is my answer, Shivji.

I fully agree to this point, but let me get into the fine print. There are hard factors and soft factors at work.

Hard factors can include factors like training, practice, discipline, leadership, strategy, technology, logistics, etc, all that I will put under professionalism.

Soft factors are motivational. No human is stone cold without emotions. Fear, courage and a host of other emotions are always at work. Some factors like courage need to be enhanced and some like fear need to be repressed.

Motivational factors may include standards/precedents set by others, flags and standards, military bands, historical/religious heros, chewing khat for Somalis fighting Americans, Rum Rations for British soldiers and sailors, Hashish for medieval Assassin tribe.

But soft factors work for the individual and not his opponents. It is like the O Henry story The Last Leaf. The last leaf was meaningless for anyone but the dying girl.

So a bunch of horsemen screaming “Har Har Mahadev” won’t affect at a bunch of Shamanist Tengri worshipping Turk/Mongol/Huns because they simply don’t understand Mahadev. And whether Turk/Mongol/Huns succumb or succeed depends on their skills and motivation.

Similarly a charging tank or helicopter will be scary to most. But a RPG/ATGM/MANPADS operator trained for the job will hold his ground.

Edison said 99% perspiration 1% inspiration. For warfare, it is 99% professionalism and 1% motivation.

The last 1% might be the difference between defeat and victory. That is why every account of battle remembers the last 1% factor that helped win. But without the 99% behind, we wouldn’t have reached that stage.

It’s like the winning run of a cricket match that everyone remembers. Most people don’t remember the building of innings that takes us close to winning.

That building of innings is training, practice, discipline, etc. This is why the phrase “The Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing-fields of Eton” was coined. To highlight the importance of character building and professionalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eton_College
According to Nevill (citing the historian Sir Edward Creasy), what Wellington said, while passing an Eton cricket match many decades later, was, "There grows the stuff that won Waterloo", a remark Nevill construes as a reference to "the manly character induced by games and sport"


Swami Vivekananda saw some boys reading Gita and immediately admonished them to go and play football.

And for those of my countrymen who say I do not respect religion, the essence of Bhagwad Gita as spoken verbatim by Shri Krishna is Karma Yoga, or professionalism.

Despite the evils of the EIC and British Raj, a professional force came into being in 1612 that continues to be until this day. The usage of the White Ensign simply honors those universal values and the unique heritage of a force that is in being for 400 years. Nothing remotely religious or ethic about it.

shiv wrote:Ethnicity must not be ignored, but needs to be given its rightful place.
Agreed, but focusing more on the 1% while ignoring the remaining 99% has its own perils. Mumbai Police might be great in terms of courage, but in the absence of poor marksmanship skills, that courage is wasted.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby shukla » 25 Feb 2012 06:05

India needs strategic planning in maritime affairs:Navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta
Firstpost

“What is, of course, lacking in terms of maritime awareness is the strategic thinking. I see that lot many things (are) happening, but basically everybody is fighting fire. Everyday a new problem comes up and we are rushing to find a solution to that,” he said. “There is no long-term policy in place. For example, there is no Indian Ocean policy and we need to have one and people need to work on this,” he added.

Replying to a question on ways to tackle increasing presence of Chinese Navy in Indian Ocean, he underlined the need for advance planning. “Naturally we have to take certain steps in advance when China is concerned. For example, there are talks of String of Pearls and that China has encircled us. But it is China’s policy and it is going to encircle us… So we need to do something about this,” he said. He denied that the balance of power in Indian Ocean has tilted in favour of China after its Navy was allowed to make port calls in Seychelles. “There is no such thing. It is Indian Ocean and it’s not like that anyone else will have an increased influence here. China actually has got the right for its ships to visit Seychelles. We have this arrangement with so many countries, such as the refilling halts,” he said. Mehta said China needed to make such arrangement after it deployed its Navy to fight pirates in Gulf of Aden. “This is a normal way of working, and it does not mean that someone will have increased influence. Since their ships have started working over here like in piracy business etc, they need to have some port facilities and they have made their arrangements,” he said.

On tackling piracy in Gulf of Aden, he underlined the need for making proper laws. On whether India is moving slowly to make anti-piracy laws, he said, “Actually, everybody is going slow for some reason or the other. Nobody has got a law to take pirates back in their country and try them… Countries need to make their laws and may be United Nations can have a bigger charter over there.”

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby aniket » 26 Feb 2012 15:11

X-Post from Red Menace thread
Seeing the horrendous and cowardly acts of the maoists in recent times like killing of people ,not letting the civil administration do their job and killing in cold blood,Why are maoists not called terrorists and their organisations labelled teerrorists and banned.Is it because the civil adminisrtration does not want the involement of the Army ?

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby koti » 28 Feb 2012 11:55

Its mostly political.
Army is never involved in any of the states in India to deal with Terrorist threats except for Kashmir or NE where the problem is more of a Treason. Maoist Insurgency IMO may be considered as Sedition.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby aniket » 28 Feb 2012 13:24

Thanks

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby prabhug » 01 Mar 2012 14:21

anybody attending the MSME defexpo in bangalore this weekend ?


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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby r_subramanian » 10 Mar 2012 11:03

For several hours now I have not been able to connect to http://bharat-rakshak.com/. However, there is no problem connecting to http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com. Is there some issue with bharat-rakshak.com?

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Rahul M » 10 Mar 2012 11:16

yes, we are having some problems with the server.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby r_subramanian » 10 Mar 2012 11:35

^Thanks Rahul

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Yogesh » 10 Mar 2012 16:48

Rahul M wrote:yes, we are having some problems with the server.



Thanks for this heads up..I was screaming like .. :twisted: :evil: oh boy :( on my ISP vala was very polite and said the same reason but I was not ready to listen as forums I am able to access...

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby shiv » 13 Mar 2012 08:13

steve wrote:Please some body explain me ................What is the difference between

1. Design Technology

2. Manufacturing Technology

Please explain in detail...........I will be very Grateful.


Just like I am the expert on nuclear weapons, I would be the best person to anwer this question because I have nothing to do at all with what you have asked

Forget aircraft or engines. Let me start with the following item, a coffee mug
Image

1. Design technology:

What is required? To hold coffee you need a container. A box is a container too, so is the cupped palm of your hand, but you need a container that holds liquids, so the design goal should be to make the mug out of a material that holds liquids. Neither a box nor your palm meet the requirements.

How big should it be? It should be big enough to hold the amount of coffee that an adult human can reasonably drink. 1000 ml is too big. 50 ml is too small. 150 to 250 ml is OK

The container needs to be reused. So it must not be too fragile. It should not get crushed by light pressure. It should be able to withstand some rough handling without breaking. The it should be possible to clean the inside of the container. If the container has a very long neck or a narrow opening, cleaning the inside becomes difficult, so it must have a broad mouth. How broad? After all a plate can hold liquids and has a broad mouth? But a plate will spill easily. The mouth should be broad enough to allow the fingers of a human hand or a jet of washing liquid to reach the bottom for cleaning.

The coffee is likely to be hot and one can burn one's fingers while holding the mug. So a little handle is useful. The handle should not conduct heat easily and should be in a position that enables you to drink while holding the handle. So a bucket handle is useless.

2. Manufacturing technology:

How to make a coffee cup with the above design

What material to use? You could carve wood into a cup. But wood requires chopping of trees and only soe trees and some parts are useful. Wood is biodegradable and will not be long lasting. You could use silver, copper, gold, iron, steel or clay.

Of all these, clay is the cheapest and most readily available

What to do with clay? First you need to find a reliable supplier. Then you need workers to mix the clay with water and mould it. drying it in the sun (if teh weather is good) is useless. The clay has to be fired in an oven.

So you need an oven. How big does the oven have to be? What will you use as a heat source? Wood? Coal? oil? Gas? Electricity? What is easily available and cheapest to use?

Now an aircraft has about 25,000 parts. Apply the above questions (and more) to all 25,000 parts and get suitable answers and you have an aircraft. It's as simple as that.

Please do the following exercise as homework over the weekend:
Fashion a turbine blade like the one in the photo below. State what materials you have used and where you obtained them. The blade should be able to hold on to a disc spinning at 15,000 RPM in an environment that gets as hot as 2000 deg C. It should last for at least 1000 hours of use in such an environment.
Image

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby krisna » 14 Mar 2012 08:45

LCA News and Discussions

Just wondering shouldnt this be renamed as Tejas - LCA News and Discussions :?:

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby koti » 14 Mar 2012 11:57

Tejas is such a softcore name...
I never really liked it....

OT though

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby aniket » 14 Mar 2012 12:06

I have a question
How are pictures of jets taken in mid-air like in exercises ? For example how is a SU-30MKI or Eurofighter Typhoon's picture taken during flight during exercises ?Is a photographer placed in a transport or utility plane which flies alongside and the photographer takes photos or is a pilot who is trained in photography flying in a fighter is told to click pictures ?

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby shiv » 14 Mar 2012 20:24

koti wrote:Tejas is such a softcore name...
I never really liked it....

OT though


"Softcore"? What is softcore? For example "Sun" seems like a softcore name for something that is really brilliant, and whose radiance outshines anything else? Don't you think?

But I think "Haseena Atim Bum" would not have been such a good name for Tejas although it is arguably less softcore.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Prasad » 14 Mar 2012 21:26

aniket wrote:I have a question
How are pictures of jets taken in mid-air like in exercises ? For example how is a SU-30MKI or Eurofighter Typhoon's picture taken during flight during exercises ?Is a photographer placed in a transport or utility plane which flies alongside and the photographer takes photos or is a pilot who is trained in photography flying in a fighter is told to click pictures ?

Does this answer your question? :) Image

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby atreya » 14 Mar 2012 22:19

@ ^^
I always thought that WSOs or navigators in two seater fighter jets took those pics. The Topgun influence, I guess :D

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby koti » 14 Mar 2012 22:27

shiv wrote:"Softcore"? What is softcore? For example "Sun" seems like a softcore name for something that is really brilliant, and whose radiance outshines anything else? Don't you think?

But I think "Haseena Atim Bum" would not have been such a good name for Tejas although it is arguably less softcore.

Ya. but viper or alligator sound better.
Bheeshma, arjun, dhruv, rudra, brahmos sound apt too.
Tejas reminds me of the good and obedient boy of the class. It better suits EW of the like as a nomenclature.
Just me maybe.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Prasad » 14 Mar 2012 22:36

Well thats just one way of taking pictures. Anything that gets you up in the air is a platform to shoot from. Very high altitude shots are usually done that way. No other go. Low level shots can be done by using a transport+fighter combo. Shoot from the ramp of the transport plane with the fighter flying behind the transport. Use smaller sized planes like the cub cessna etc to shoot smaller planes. Anything that works :)

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby aniket » 14 Mar 2012 22:38

Can UAV's be used for the same ?
PS:Thanks for the explanation

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby krisna » 14 Mar 2012 23:30

koti wrote:Ya. but viper or alligator sound better.
Bheeshma, arjun, dhruv, rudra, brahmos sound apt too.
Tejas reminds me of the good and obedient boy of the class. It better suits EW of the like as a nomenclature.
Just me maybe.


It is the perception of mind onlee.
You know the meanings of the above words hence make it as soft or obedient or hard core etc whatever you think off.

Ex- you associate viper/alligator with some specific terms like ferocious or dangerous etc. hence you like it better thinking an LCA named viper/alligator would be ferocious or dangerous.
But reality is different- Tejas is just as ferocious and dangerous to its enemies despite its name (mind perception). 8)

My reasoning is LCA is nothing but called as Tejas. LCA thread is full of Tejas only.
Hence the appropriate full name should be Tejas- LCA news and discussions.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby r_subramanian » 15 Mar 2012 09:37

I am not sure if this is the right place to pose the question. I have not seen postings by S Sridhar (one of the Admins) for a while. Will he be back soon?

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby member_23061 » 18 Mar 2012 20:21

krisna wrote:
koti wrote:Ya. but viper or alligator sound better.
Bheeshma, arjun, dhruv, rudra, brahmos sound apt too.
Tejas reminds me of the good and obedient boy of the class. It better suits EW of the like as a nomenclature.
Just me maybe.


Ex- you associate viper/alligator with some specific terms like ferocious or dangerous etc. hence you like it better thinking an LCA named viper/alligator would be ferocious or dangerous.
But reality is different- Tejas is just as ferocious and dangerous to its enemies despite its name (mind perception). 8)


It could be worse, what if they called it Nakhul or Sahadev? :rotfl:

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby nachiket » 21 Mar 2012 03:56

Time for another noob question which has bothered me for some time.

AFAIK, the three bulges under each wing of the LCA house the actuators for the elevons/flaps at the back of the wing. As seen here:
Image

We can see similar (but smaller) bulges underneath the Eurofighter's wings.

So..., where are the actuators on the MKI?

Image

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby andy B » 21 Mar 2012 05:29

^^^ Hmmm interesting queschun Nachiket...

My primitive mind tells me that it may have got to do something with the thickness of Rambha's wings relative to the Jahaj-e-kuffr or the EF.

Check the below image gives you a good idea of how phat Rambha's wings are, it may well be that there is ample space in em to store the requisite equipment in regards to the electro-hydraulic (?) actuators onlee.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ajes_1.JPG

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Indranil » 21 Mar 2012 07:06

I had this question when I was observing the Rafale closely. One can't see the hydraulics for inner flaperons.

Image

Anyways, here are the answers:

On the Flanker, it is part 134 in this pic:
http://i.imagehost.org/0700/Sukhoi_Su-27_Flanker.jpg

On the Rafale, it is part 17 in this pic:
http://www.mycity-military.com/imgs/65492_403568846_047.JPG

Also for the LCA I am pretty sure the housing is that big inorder to maintain the area curve. The hydraulics will be much smaller.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby shiv » 25 Mar 2012 13:22

nachiket wrote:Time for another noob question which has bothered me for some time.

AFAIK, the three bulges under each wing of the LCA house the actuators for the elevons/flaps at the back of the wing. As seen here:


Those are also the exact spots where ordnance is attached.

Image

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby atreya » 25 Mar 2012 19:45

I have some noob doubts.
1. Why is the Assam Rifles occupying a unique position as a Paramilitary Force? It is composed of IA personnel and they are reporting to the MHA. AFAIK, their role is similar to that of RR in Kashmir- primarily as a COIN force. In such a scenario, why isn't it made a part of the IA like RR?

2. The AR rank is recruited from North Eastern states, I understand. The officers are from the IA. So, if an IA Major XYZ is posted to the AR, will he be now referred to as Deputy Commandant XYZ?

Thanks in advance

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Rahul M » 25 Mar 2012 19:47

AR is officered by IA officers but the men are not from IA, unlike RR. somewhat like the ICG, which is more like a CPO (although it comes under MOD) but commanded by IN admirals.


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