Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

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shiv
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby shiv » 26 Mar 2012 09:19

shiv wrote:
nachiket wrote:Time for another noob question which has bothered me for some time.

AFAIK, the three bulges under each wing of the LCA house the actuators for the elevons/flaps at the back of the wing. As seen here:


Those are also the exact spots where ordnance is attached.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5sP7XwykNSM/T ... 0/lca1.jpg


As an aside, it occurs to me that because of those underwing bulges the airflow around the LCA wings will not vary that much when munitions are added, and aside from the drag penalty of munition weight, the LCA's flying performance with and without munitions may be similar.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Indranil » 26 Mar 2012 09:57

^^^ No sir, that is not a fact :-)

The clean LCA is closest to the area ruling that the designers could take it to. When you add pylons and weapons, that ruling is lost.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby shiv » 27 Mar 2012 08:04

tejas wrote:
I don't know what your point is. The Chetak & Cheetah are still flown by the IAF and usually for casevac and OP in lousy terrain.


My point is the Indian armed forces should probably be using helicopters designed/built after the 1962 war with China.


Good idea. As a one-off suggestion nothing like it. But to me this is a glass half empty-half full situation.

The "half empty" part is that India is basically a decrepit nation that is nowhere near "the best". the Indian armed forces merely reflect the nation and their state of development is not disconnected from the general state of development of the nation.

The "half full" part tells me that we have much work to do and that should thrill many Indians. They wil not be unemployed as long as they have an aim.

But exactly what is it that makes the Chetak an inferior helicopter? I think that would be a useful learning exercise for those of us who do not know. Can anyone educate me here?

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Indranil » 28 Mar 2012 01:39

indranilroy wrote:Also for the LCA I am pretty sure the housing is that big inorder to maintain the area curve. The hydraulics will be much smaller.

I am right 8). Please have a look at the size of the hydraulics for the flaperons of Tejas. The housing is way bigger than just being an aerodynamic cover to the hydraulics.
Parts 64, 103, and 104 are the hydraulics that we are concerned about:
Image

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Indranil » 28 Mar 2012 09:44

Marten wrote:
indranilroy wrote:^^^ No sir, that is not a fact :-)

The clean LCA is closest to the area ruling that the designers could take it to. When you add pylons and weapons, that ruling is lost.

Indranil, could you please translate this for non-aeroheads? Thanks.

I am no expert Marten ji. Just an enthusiast.

Shivji was thinking that since the pylons are an extension of the hydraulic covers, the air faces almost the same obstruction in a clean profile as in a case where LCA is flying with pylons. This is the case at low air speeds where 'wave' drag does not play a significant role. However, at speeds that LCA would operate this is not true. At these speeds wave drag is a significant factor. See in a simple way, wave drag is reduced by the area the cross-sectional area of the plane smoothly and then letting it taper of smoothly. You could think of it like this. The cross section is the amount of air that you have to displace to go through. If suddenly you have to suddenly replace a large volume of air you would have a lot of drag. Whereas if you gradually increase the volume of air to replace in a streamlined manner, you will have lesser resistance. The same is used by swimmers, fishes etc.

Now getting back to LCA ... the designers designed the plane in such a way that the are increased and decreased smoothly. When you put on the pylons, this gets disturbed. The fattest point gets more fat, the smoothness of the area curve goes and the are increases where the pylons start (which is not the most favourable point) etc. If you put on payload, their cross-sectional area spoils the area curve even further.

Infact the pylons of LCA will be modified. They the are going to make them more sharper and more elongated in the front to decrease the drag which they observed at sea level trials. Se Figure 14 and Figure 15 in the following paper.
http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/dss/2009/main/2-CEMILAC.pdf

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby VikB » 28 Mar 2012 19:32

In Dhaka right now. Weird of weirdest thing happened. Around 5 pm, I was at the heart of the city (Mohakali bus stand to be precise) and I hear this roar of a fighter aircraft. And lo behold, a Mig 29 appeared real low in the sky. The bugger was so low that I could see the whitish/light color stripe after the canopy and similar thing on the tail and the blueish-green colour. The a** was so low over a densely populated city and then 5 huge circles over the city and took a roll in between. Nearby was the Airforce HQ. If this guys height was not low enough - he on one ofthe turns he dipped even lower when ( my presumption) approaching the HQ- must be tree top height or just above. In the last turn - fifth- the aircraft went for a vertical charlie at an angle (ok I am terminologically challenged) and took at least 10 rolls and continued away - this time away from the city.
First I did not believe my eyes that it was a Mig 29- the double tail, smoking on turns :), wing joining at the fuselage, sukhoi-ish(my colleague remarked it was a Su) - came back to hotel and checked wiki and yes it was a Mig 29.
Last edited by VikB on 28 Mar 2012 19:40, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby VikB » 28 Mar 2012 19:35

God forbid anything wud have happened to the aircraft and the world population would have decreased by a billion (including a Brfite :))

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby wilson_th » 29 Mar 2012 17:41

Is it possible for govenrment to extend the Army chief's tenure, any rule that prohibits extension?


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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby nachiket » 30 Mar 2012 15:39

First pic, the one on the right is an RPA Rangemaster. Same rifle in second pic.

Haven't identified the others yet.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby sudhan » 30 Mar 2012 23:05

Noob pooch: Can long range ballistic missiles be used to take out target at, say, half its range?

Eg, Agni-5 used to take out a target that is 2000 kms away from its launching position.

Is it feasible?

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Bala Vignesh » 30 Mar 2012 23:17

The one in the left in the first image is Accuracy International's Arctic Warfare, record holder for the longest range kill shot in the world...

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby shiv » 31 Mar 2012 06:13

Don't we need a "Small arms identification" thread?

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Bala Vignesh » 31 Mar 2012 10:01

Coming to the third image, from the foreground to the background, the first gun is either the Austrian MG 74 or the WW2 MG42, immediately after it is the Special ops variant of the FN Minimi, right in front of the minimi's muzzle is the H&K MP5K SMG. Right behind the MP5K is the benneli M3 or the equivalent model from Remmington, to the right of the shot gun is the MP5A2/A4 SMG..

As for the rest, I have no clue..

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Ramu » 03 Apr 2012 21:03

A noob question : can the AD missile be used for LR or MR SAM role alongwith BMD role?
I think Prahaar is a derivative of AD missile. I remember seeing a picture of a TEL carrying 6 rounds of Prahaar.
If a BMD missile can be used for AD role as well, it would be nice to park such TELs loaded with either Prahaar or AAD or both across our border.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby vasu_ray » 11 Apr 2012 06:22

Got a question, on the issue of reducing the RCS of Su-30, if the airframe which is made of both metal and composites is rebuilt with the metal part having angles that allow for stealth and the rest is composite so that the overall aerodynamic shape is retained, thus the composites are transparent to the radar signals and the metal frame doesn't give as much return due to the angular shapes that are becoming the norm of the stealth aircraft

lets assume this gain in RCS reduction is balanced at the expense of current payload carrying capacity

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby vasu_ray » 11 Apr 2012 19:58

^^^

a follow on quasi-question is about using software similar to Autolay, which can be extended to account for airframe RCS as well by introducing a new constraint model based on the 'principles of stealth', whatever the latter implies

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby koti » 13 Apr 2012 10:50

Ramu wrote:A noob question : can the AD missile be used for LR or MR SAM role alongwith BMD role?
I think Prahaar is a derivative of AD missile. I remember seeing a picture of a TEL carrying 6 rounds of Prahaar.
If a BMD missile can be used for AD role as well, it would be nice to park such TELs loaded with either Prahaar or AAD or both across our border.

Yes. It was reported that Ashwin (AAD) will be having this capability.
Arrow 2, PAC 2-3 and the French Aster have this capability too.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby adityadange » 13 Apr 2012 11:23

what is advantage of vertically launched missile over a inclined launched in case of ship based missile?

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby koti » 13 Apr 2012 11:28

It can be fired at 360 degrees. No time or fuel wastage for missile course correction.
Maybe easier to launch/reload.
Anything else?
Last edited by koti on 13 Apr 2012 11:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby nelson » 13 Apr 2012 11:29

will it save space where real estate is at a premium?

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Bala Vignesh » 13 Apr 2012 11:55

^^Another major advantage is cleaner superstructure for smaller RCS and improved stealth characteristics.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby koti » 13 Apr 2012 12:26

shiv wrote:Could someone id these please?

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 2165_n.jpg
Image


MG42
M249
M4
Aug Styer
MP5
AKM
AKMS
G3
RPG 7
M224(?)


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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby aniket » 13 Apr 2012 22:50

The camo that the soldiers are wearing in the pic above ^^^^ looks Indian,is it or am i imagining things ?

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby koti » 16 Apr 2012 12:58

^ It was Ex US Army Camo.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby aniket » 16 Apr 2012 22:57

Thanks and it looks suspiciously like the present camo of the Indian Army.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby arijitkm » 17 Apr 2012 12:31


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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby atreya » 17 Apr 2012 12:37

@ ^^
It requires a log-in! Can you please copy paste the article here, if possible?

Edited later: Never mind, you beat me to it :)

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Bolasani » 18 Apr 2012 17:04

Noob pooch, While I was watching the movie "Paan Singh Tomar", two things caught my attention,

1) The soldiers have a fixed ration even in peacetime postings. Soldiers participating in sports get a larger ration.
2) Soldiers participating in sports are not sent on combat missions.

Can any one confirm the truth in either of these statements?

TIA

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Gaur » 18 Apr 2012 17:45

Bolasani wrote:1) The soldiers have a fixed ration even in peacetime postings. Soldiers participating in sports get a larger ration.

Yeah..of course the ration is fixed. The meals are very carefully designed keeping in mind the total daily nutrient and calorie requirement. You don't want to either underfeed or overfeed the soldiers.
Also, members may correct me if I am wrong, but AFAIK soldiers participating in sports or in training are given much greater quantities of food.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby gakakkad » 21 Apr 2012 20:53

I was searching something about fab units and wanted some more info on TI india lab..

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/indi ... cleid=4554

India has 11 fabs, but they're owned by the government and are non-commercial. They are used primarily for the defense and aerospace sectors. In 2007, the government of India announced a semiconductor policy and some private players considered setting up fabs. Talk in the industry suggests that the government itself may be looking at setting up a commercial fab.



does India truly have 11 FABS ? what capacity ? where ?

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby koti » 23 Apr 2012 14:53

^Got some info from a paki forum. :P
SITAR
GAETEC
SCL Related(SCL Wiki)

And finally :Link

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby siddharth » 24 Apr 2012 22:09

Noob question...what determines the height of the tower of a submarine?? Chakra seems to have a shorter tower when compared to the Virginia class subs.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby S_Prasad » 25 Apr 2012 04:04

[youtube]SNPJMk2fgJU&feature=g-logo&context=G25e3feaFOAAAAAAADAA[/youtube]

Interesting

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Indranil » 25 Apr 2012 07:56

Useless ... It will have no accuracy from any meaningful distance ... and blasting toys neither move nor shoot back.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Bolasani » 25 Apr 2012 11:48

^^ I believe its a prop for the new Call of Duty game.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby member_20036 » 27 Apr 2012 23:03

Is Rajya Sabha out of bounds for
the defence services?

Sachin Tendulkar, Rekha and Anu Aga have been nominated as members of the Rajya Sabha. Thus an eminent sportsman, a cine actress of the yester years and a prominent businesswoman have all found a place in the premier democratic institution of the country. After the erstwhile Lt Governor of Delhi Air Marshal HL Kapoor in the early 80’s, though not appointed on the basis ofhis service background, the services have had no representation in the institution. Unfortunately no one seems to have even considered bringing in a defence services representative to the august body.
A representative of the defence services if inducted to the Parliamentwill be an expert advisor on defence matters besides being a spokesperson of 1.3 million soldiers and over 1.6 million military veterans, of our country. They have been engaged in protecting our borders perhaps under most difficult and risky environments. India, we need to bear in mind is a nuclear power with a robust ongoing ballisticmissile program. Geography has gifted us with an assortment of neighbors with some of whom we are yet to delineate our national boundaries.
Our defence budget is the 9 th largest in the world for the year 2012 which is around US$ 41 billion and it is expected to go up to US$ 110 billion by 2016. Our country is one of the largest importers of military hardware and has been witnessing a surge in defence related scams in the recent past. The state of defence preparedness as well as the need for maintaining a balanced mix of conventional forces and strategic assets is still evolving. The need and the urgency for developing defence related infrastructure in our border areas are yet to be fully realized. We have a generalized bureaucracy with very little knowledge or practical experience in defence matters who seem to be guiding our elected representatives in the government in defence matters. To add to all these woes, the defence forces have been kept out of the decision making processes even in defence related issues.
Considering that our people and our people’s representatives have very limited knowledge and expertise in matters military and strategic thinking would it not benefit the country as well as the tax payer by inducting a defence services representative to the Rajya Sabha? Would his contribution not be valuable as a part of various defence related Parliamentary committees? Should this large section of our countrymen who have forgone some of their democratic rights in the interest of the country at some time or the other remain dumb for the rest of their lives for having chosen military as their career? Is such a state acceptable even after six decades of independence and after the defence services have unequivocally demonstrated their democratic credentials in the South Asian context and environment?
The Parliament of India is not a platform for projecting the country’s respect for an expert in a particular field. It is a home for discussing various issues concerning governanceto evolve solutions to problems facing the country and make suitable laws. Will Sachin have the time to contribute to the business of the Parliament with his cricketing engagements? What has been the contribution of our erstwhile cine actors and actresses in the Rajya Sabha? What are the nation’s expectations from Ms Rekha? Are we viewing Rajya Sabha seats as a tool inthe process for image makeover of political parties?
When will we as a nation understand our necessities and priorities and act in the interest of the country?

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... e-services

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Rahul M » 27 Apr 2012 23:24

factual nitpick.

Gen S RoyC was a member of RS not too long ago. a couple of others too IIRC.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby gakakkad » 28 Apr 2012 16:35

The great Gen Jagjit Singh Aurora was in RS . However he was a member of the Akali Dal..


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