Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

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Sid
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Sid » 31 Jan 2009 05:33

KV Rao wrote:Of course this is what I too believe, but again, is there some documented (in any form) statement or observation that lays out this policy or practice? What about things like halal meat for muslim soldiers?


You (ofcourse) wont get documentation on which food should be served to which type of soldier.

As far as i remember food is prepared in common "lunger" for all (veg/non-veg) and meat is also prepared in lungers (not sourced from shops) as that is part of allocated ration. I cant remember if they serve special jhatka/halal but if someone asks for specific treatment he/she is not given that. It all depends on your lunger cook, like how he wanna prepare it. You get whatever is prepared there. If you say no you are welcome to cook your own.

If you are thinking that there is discrimination based on religion in IA or any other force then you are dead wrong.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Dmurphy » 31 Jan 2009 14:08

Gurus, whats that matchbox like gadget at the end of the barrel? what is is used for?
Image

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby kobe » 31 Jan 2009 14:41

Dear Forum Gurus and Maha Gurus:

It seems the following is happening:

In the subject forums (LCA, MRCA, Kaveri etc), newbies, oldbies, etc write whatever they want, (for example personal opinion on subjects they don't know much about).

Is it hard to explain to forumites that they should only:
- write concrete data or news with reference
- not write personal opinions
- not write conjecture, guesswork, and outright stupidity

(for example one guy wrote if Laser weapons will work in cloudy conditions)
(for example people guessing who should win the MRCA contract - one wrote "Grippen will not make it to final round")

It is not sufficient to weed out "trollers" and "de-railers", but also
non-experts who should not be writing mumbo-jumbo.

I can give you more examples from currently active forums, but I am sure you being Guru's, know what I mean.

I am only urging this to bring the discussion to a higher quality level and give the informed more bandwidth and un-informed the boot.

Thank you

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby AmitR » 31 Jan 2009 16:29

Nayak wrote:I think we need to post all miscellaneous questions here.

Even though I have been lurking on BR for the last 6 years, I am still very wet behind the ears when it comes to military matters.

There are many diggajs here who can share their knowledge with us noobs.

With a Hail to Hanumanjee (and a tribute to PeeArrEff adminullahs) I am starting this thread.

Please do not derail other threads and consolidate your questions here.
Rahul.


I agree. I am a newbie myself to this site, although i have good understanding of military systems.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Rahul M » 31 Jan 2009 23:27

kobe, thanks for the post.

as you have rightly understood, the idea of the forums is to discuss within the realms of reality.

in the earlier days, BR used to have a big gang of experts who would have persisted with an errant n00b (I certainly don't mean that all new members are n00bs or vice versa for that matter)
to make him see the light and that experience, while sometimes quite harrowing for the person( :twisted: ) usually gave him a better perspective on things.

IOW, BRF mil forum was a frightening place, when I signed up (after lurking for about 5 years !), it took me enormous courage to post here, that too in the scenarios thread, where I figured people would be a little forgiving. :-o
all this after following military affairs for half a decade and reading virtually *ALL* military related news items that came out in India since the early 80's !!

now, these oldies didn't wait for mods to show up and bring things under control, they had their own sense of responsibility did it come what may, day in and day out, consequences be damned.
one reason why they could do the job of keeping BR sane could be that BR grew with these people and they understood it's pulse as well as their own, only better !
unfortunately, most of them have gotten to be too busy with their lives to participate regularly, if at all. you'll probably remember the names -- GJ, JC, rakall even JaiS is rarely seen these days.
and I'm sure I've missed a number of equally adroit members.

I'm sure there are still people have similar level of knowledge and understanding but are perhaps hesitant to be more assertive, probably because of lack of understanding of how BR works.

at the end of the day it comes to this simple fact, a forum is as good as its members and if you feel some member is violating the basic tenets, don't hesitate to go ahead and tell him/her what you really think on the issue.

cheers !!

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby kobe » 31 Jan 2009 23:42

i do remember the names,
actually i thought i saw
JC in the cockpit of the F16 picture
someone posted in the MRCS thread

anyway, just to be picky about this:

eight types of members here (and there are sub-types)

1) newbie and non-experts
2) newbie and experts
3) oldie and non-experts
4) oldie and experts
5) mid-bies and mid experts (<-- the most dangerous and annoying types)
6) mid-bies and non experts
7) trollers, spies, bots
8) gurus, mahagurus, secret gurus..

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Rahul M » 01 Feb 2009 01:20

DMurphy, it is probably the EM devices used as training aid. this pic is from a training exercise with the brits IIRC.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Hiten » 01 Feb 2009 02:35

^^
ya it is the laser designator thats used during training exercises

those black hemispheres on the helmet and chest register hits recived from the laser

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Hari » 01 Feb 2009 10:57

Can Anyone tell me how to join Army Aviation corps. This is for one of my friends who cleared PABT now going for Army SSB

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby rohitvats » 01 Feb 2009 21:17

IIRC, you can not directly opt for AAC from the IMA. It is open for all officers from all arms in the IA with non-medical background, 2years service and ofcourse, clearing of the PABT. So your freind will go to IMA, opt for a arm and then volunteer for AAC.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Rahul M » 01 Feb 2009 23:52

in continuation of my earlier post.

an example of what is needed.
viewtopic.php?f=3&p=611158#p611158

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Nikhil T » 02 Feb 2009 05:40

Can someone confirm whether the follow-on order for 29 MiG-29K/KUBs has been inked ?? I've heard people saying it was sealed in Dec.

Also, how many of these 29 birds are for the ADS being built at Cochin? Thanks,

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby AmitR » 02 Feb 2009 12:58

Does anyone else beside me think that the BR site needs a better design :idea: . It looks very old and dated with the 90s swooshy, curvy design of 800x600 resolution. I believe BR should migrate to the wider web 2.O clean design with minimum art and more css control. I can take take this up but not sure where to start. :D

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Rahul M » 02 Feb 2009 14:22

amit, do you mean the mainsite ?
Jagan is looking for some volunteers I believe. email him if you are interested.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby krishnan » 02 Feb 2009 15:47

Dmurphy wrote:Gurus, whats that matchbox like gadget at the end of the barrel? what is is used for?
Image


Laser pointer?

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby AmitR » 02 Feb 2009 16:19

Rahul M wrote:amit, do you mean the mainsite ?
Jagan is looking for some volunteers I believe. email him if you are interested.


Yes the main site. The forum design is pretty standard so no point changing that.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby abhik » 02 Feb 2009 18:08

Hi guys,I'm new here(though I've been lurking here for an embarrassingly long time :oops: ).
I know BRF has a very long list of rules and guidelines but i completely respect and understand their rational(now i have been reading BRF for more than 2 years!).
Hope I fit in & cheers!

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby p_saggu » 02 Feb 2009 22:46

What do fighters do if they have to land back on the carrier with a heavy weapons load still on the pylons?
Do they just junk all that expensive maal into the sea? :eek:
Is this why now russian missiles are tube launched? Even the ones carried on aircraft - the Air launched Klubs are shown being launched off a tube while fired off an aircraft.

Are these missiles recoverable and reusable?

Will the length of the landing strip on the ADS have any bearing on the landing loads of the NLCA? I think it will affect the landing speed.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Akshut » 02 Feb 2009 22:58

AmitR wrote:Does anyone else beside me think that the BR site needs a better design :idea: . It looks very old and dated with the 90s swooshy, curvy design of 800x600 resolution. I believe BR should migrate to the wider web 2.O clean design with minimum art and more css control. I can take take this up but not sure where to start. :D




You just took the words from my mouth. I think BR really needs a make-over.

All BRites talk about modernization and upgradation of Armed forces day in and day out, but what about the upgradation of Indian Armed Forces' best web forum? :?:

So Mods, plz, listen to your janta's demands. And give your janta an assurance of a world class modern forum interface, just like Babus and Neta-jis do.

Taanku.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Rahul M » 02 Feb 2009 23:08

saggu ji, that's the general idea if total weight crossed the safe limit. but I think for all munitions that will be in regular use the fuel dumping feature will suffice.

akshut, sorry to disappoint you, forum look is not going to change nor is amit talking about it. :)

FYI, there are limited options of styles available from the board preferences link in the user ctrl panel.you can try them out.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Akshut » 02 Feb 2009 23:44

Rahul M wrote:akshut, sorry to disappoint you, forum look is not going to change nor is amit talking about it. :)




Ji Maaibaap.

Saaheb hum zada nai maangte, bas 1 desh ka jhanda hi daal do smilies mei. Koshish karna huzoor.

Jai Ram ji ki.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Rahul M » 03 Feb 2009 00:25

arre bhai yeh maibaap wala baat chhoro. :)

forum SW was updated a few months back and this one is quite modern but may be not in looks. if you think there's a problem with the interface I suggest the site suggestion and feedback thread.

now what may be modern for young turks might be eyesores for us old foggies ! :wink:

btw, the smiley thing you are looking for are add-ons.
you can use this one if you want.
but please don't overdo it.
Image

regards.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby KiranM » 03 Feb 2009 00:55

Rahul M wrote:kobe, thanks for the post.

as you have rightly understood, the idea of the forums is to discuss within the realms of reality.

in the earlier days, BR used to have a big gang of experts who would have persisted with an errant n00b (I certainly don't mean that all new members are n00bs or vice versa for that matter)
to make him see the light and that experience, while sometimes quite harrowing for the person( :twisted: ) usually gave him a better perspective on things.
............

I think the issue of 'grooming' the newbies (in terms of quality posts) can be addressed by giving posting rights only on the condition of clearing rigorous tests based on BR guidelines. :wink:

Though I am sure I will be the first chap to flunk and have my posting rights revoked. :D

BTW what is up with JCage? Where is he? Why is he absent from BR? Though have been lurking for over 6 years, was out of loop with BR for few months in between, when many things seemed to have changed.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby KLNMurthy » 03 Feb 2009 08:07

Sid wrote:
KV Rao wrote:Of course this is what I too believe, but again, is there some documented (in any form) statement or observation that lays out this policy or practice? What about things like halal meat for muslim soldiers?


You (ofcourse) wont get documentation on which food should be served to which type of soldier.

As far as i remember food is prepared in common "lunger" for all (veg/non-veg) and meat is also prepared in lungers (not sourced from shops) as that is part of allocated ration. I cant remember if they serve special jhatka/halal but if someone asks for specific treatment he/she is not given that. It all depends on your lunger cook, like how he wanna prepare it. You get whatever is prepared there. If you say no you are welcome to cook your own.

If you are thinking that there is discrimination based on religion in IA or any other force then you are dead wrong.


If I understand you correctly, special religious meals such as halal may be provided depending on how practical it is. Failing which, the soldier can be given the ingredients from which he can do his own cooking, is that correct? But since halal involves a specific way of killing the animal, and not just specific way of cooking, that would mean it would be problematic to obtain halal meat, would that be a fair way to put it?

I am only trying to understand the facts of the situation, after having read some allegations by someone whom I consider to be a fanatic and a traitor.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Rahul M » 03 Feb 2009 12:21

soldiers are frequently provided live meat.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby AmitR » 03 Feb 2009 14:41

AmitR wrote:
Rahul M wrote:amit, do you mean the mainsite ?
Jagan is looking for some volunteers I believe. email him if you are interested.


Yes the main site. The forum design is pretty standard so no point changing that.


How do I send e-mail. I tried the personal message but was stone walled.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Dmurphy » 03 Feb 2009 14:47

Rahul M wrote:soldiers are frequently provided live meat.
Uhh...what? :-?

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Dmurphy » 03 Feb 2009 14:53

AmitR wrote:How do I send e-mail. I tried the personal message but was stone walled.


Thats a right reserved by the adminullahs, doled out only to goat eating abduls. :D

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Jagan » 03 Feb 2009 18:08

Akshut wrote:
AmitR wrote:Does anyone else beside me think that the BR site needs a better design :idea: . It looks very old and dated with the 90s swooshy, curvy design of 800x600 resolution. I believe BR should migrate to the wider web 2.O clean design with minimum art and more css control. I can take take this up but not sure where to start. :D




You just took the words from my mouth. I think BR really needs a make-over.

All BRites talk about modernization and upgradation of Armed forces day in and day out, but what about the upgradation of Indian Armed Forces' best web forum? :?:

So Mods, plz, listen to your janta's demands. And give your janta an assurance of a world class modern forum interface, just like Babus and Neta-jis do.

Taanku.


Sure guys, if anyone has good ideas about the main page - please email in. What you can do is design the page and send me a screen shot. Essentially the front page elements will be the same as the current page, it should run off PHP. you can add some components if you think will fit in there better.

Also anyone with joomla 1.5 template expertise - your help is very much needed.

you can send us an email to webmasterATbharat-rakshakDOTcom

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby vivek_ahuja » 03 Feb 2009 18:22

Dmurphy wrote:
Rahul M wrote:soldiers are frequently provided live meat.

Uhh...what? :-?


Yes indeed. I remember the stories about live goat parachute drops from AN-12s in the Laddakh region and what happened to those goats after they landed etc...

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby AmitR » 03 Feb 2009 18:25

Jagan wrote:Sure guys, if anyone has good ideas about the main page - please email in. What you can do is design the page and send me a screen shot. Essentially the front page elements will be the same as the current page, it should run off PHP. you can add some components if you think will fit in there better.

Also anyone with joomla 1.5 template expertise - your help is very much needed.

you can send us an email to webmasterATbharat-rakshakDOTcom


Let me take a stab at it. Be warned I will be slow as I have a full time job. Maybe we will get it done before IAF inducts the LCA :mrgreen:

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby jaladipc » 05 Feb 2009 08:54

this might be an amateur question,but really want to put it here.


If one goes to the past and digg the history abt the past rulers and kingdoms,

consider the Maurya first of all which is ~ 320BC.And the estimated population at that time was around 50 million(kingdom population) which ofcourse is 1/3 of the world population at that time.

And they did maintained a strong army of 500,000-600,000 infantry some 80,000 cavalry and ~10,000 war elephants under the great Chanakya-Chandragupta....

Now we are a population of 1.12 billion and still peddling with 1.2 million active personal ,while facing moronic enemies on all 3 sides one having a half million personal and other with 2.25 active personal and last but not the least with some handsome quarter million personal.

If a serious war is to happen and if all these 3 join hands with a strong pestilence in mind, we would be facing an enemy who is 3-4 times stronger than us and attacking us on all sides at the same point of time.

Just forget the foreign help in this case, and wot are the chances of survival for the great civilization?

And if we do increase the quantity along with quality of our numbers to 2 million active and 1 million reserve ,wot would be the needed budget? and the available options if not feasible?

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby AmitR » 05 Feb 2009 18:33

jaladipc wrote:this might be an amateur question,but really want to put it here.


If one goes to the past and digg the history abt the past rulers and kingdoms,

consider the Maurya first of all which is ~ 320BC.And the estimated population at that time was around 50 million(kingdom population) which ofcourse is 1/3 of the world population at that time.

And they did maintained a strong army of 500,000-600,000 infantry some 80,000 cavalry and ~10,000 war elephants under the great Chanakya-Chandragupta....

Now we are a population of 1.12 billion and still peddling with 1.2 million active personal ,while facing moronic enemies on all 3 sides one having a half million personal and other with 2.25 active personal and last but not the least with some handsome quarter million personal.

If a serious war is to happen and if all these 3 join hands with a strong pestilence in mind, we would be facing an enemy who is 3-4 times stronger than us and attacking us on all sides at the same point of time.

Just forget the foreign help in this case, and wot are the chances of survival for the great civilization?

And if we do increase the quantity along with quality of our numbers to 2 million active and 1 million reserve ,wot would be the needed budget? and the available options if not feasible?


Military strength is based not on just strategic priorities it has many other dimensions also. The most important being cost. To maintain an army of 2 million Indian will have to spend almost double the amount of money. And having more soldiers in this age of stealth , WMDs and cruise missiles add little value. We need more men on the ground to hold territory but not at the cost of making the country bankrupt. Look at our Faki neighbours from the west, they are in arms race with India unmindful of their economies shattered condition. They would have collapsed had it not being for the alms received from IMF and USA.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby Nandan D » 06 Feb 2009 04:31

Do Indian Su-30MKIs have thrust vectoring capability?

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby AmitR » 06 Feb 2009 10:32

Nandan D wrote:Do Indian Su-30MKIs have thrust vectoring capability?

Yes MKI has 2-dimensional thrust vectoring control (TVC). :D

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby RayC » 06 Feb 2009 11:47

Sid wrote:
KV Rao wrote:Of course this is what I too believe, but again, is there some documented (in any form) statement or observation that lays out this policy or practice? What about things like halal meat for muslim soldiers?


You (ofcourse) wont get documentation on which food should be served to which type of soldier.

As far as i remember food is prepared in common "lunger" for all (veg/non-veg) and meat is also prepared in lungers (not sourced from shops) as that is part of allocated ration. I cant remember if they serve special jhatka/halal but if someone asks for specific treatment he/she is not given that. It all depends on your lunger cook, like how he wanna prepare it. You get whatever is prepared there. If you say no you are welcome to cook your own.

If you are thinking that there is discrimination based on religion in IA or any other force then you are dead wrong.


Religion and food habits is dependant on the troop composition and which community or religion is predominant.

In Muslim majority regiments, as in some Grenadier units, it is hallal meat.

The rice/ atta issue is also on the unit concerned. In a Madras Regiment unit, rice is in a greater proportion.

For vegetarians, there is milk.

For Muslims, they take egg in lieu of meat since you don't have to hallal an egg.

And interestingly, there are alcohol drinkers amongst Muslim in the Army, who sign up as drinkers!

IA is secular.

On the posts, where one got Meat on Hoof, you had to slaughter the lamb/ goat yourself. Most of the time, by the manner it was slaughtered, it became hallal. Who cared?

Mutton is Mutton!.

My troops are Buddhists and they are not supposed to kill. And yet we slaughter the Meat on Hoof and ate it!

Religion is confined to the Sunday Mandir Parade!

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby chetak » 06 Feb 2009 15:49

Nandan D wrote:Do Indian Su-30MKIs have thrust vectoring capability?


Their pilots certainly do :wink:
Makes for happy SHQs :D

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby chetak » 06 Feb 2009 15:57

KV Rao wrote:
Sid wrote: quote="KV Rao" Of course this is what I too believe, but again, is there some documented (in any form) statement or observation that lays out this policy or practice? What about things like halal meat for muslim soldiers?


You (ofcourse) wont get documentation on which food should be served to which type of soldier.

As far as i remember food is prepared in common "lunger" for all (veg/non-veg) and meat is also prepared in lungers (not sourced from shops) as that is part of allocated ration. I cant remember if they serve special jhatka/halal but if someone asks for specific treatment he/she is not given that. It all depends on your lunger cook, like how he wanna prepare it. You get whatever is prepared there. If you say no you are welcome to cook your own.

If you are thinking that there is discrimination based on religion in IA or any other force then you are dead wrong.


If I understand you correctly, special religious meals such as halal may be provided depending on how practical it is. Failing which, the soldier can be given the ingredients from which he can do his own cooking, is that correct? But since halal involves a specific way of killing the animal, and not just specific way of cooking, that would mean it would be problematic to obtain halal meat, would that be a fair way to put it?

I am only trying to understand the facts of the situation, after having read some allegations by someone whom I consider to be a fanatic and a traitor.[/quote]


Guys,

All dressed meat procured by the govt of India, including the Forces, is halal meat by long standing public policy.

Meat on the hoof ( live ) is provided in some special cases, mainly dictated by circumstances and storage facilities.

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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby chetak » 06 Feb 2009 16:03

RayC wrote:
Sid wrote: quote="KV Rao" Of course this is what I too believe, but again, is there some documented (in any form) statement or observation that lays out this policy or practice? What about things like halal meat for muslim soldiers?


You (ofcourse) wont get documentation on which food should be served to which type of soldier.

As far as i remember food is prepared in common "lunger" for all (veg/non-veg) and meat is also prepared in lungers (not sourced from shops) as that is part of allocated ration. I cant remember if they serve special jhatka/halal but if someone asks for specific treatment he/she is not given that. It all depends on your lunger cook, like how he wanna prepare it. You get whatever is prepared there. If you say no you are welcome to cook your own.

If you are thinking that there is discrimination based on religion in IA or any other force then you are dead wrong.


Religion and food habits is dependant on the troop composition and which community or religion is predominant.

In Muslim majority regiments, as in some Grenadier units, it is hallal meat.

The rice/ atta issue is also on the unit concerned. In a Madras Regiment unit, rice is in a greater proportion.

For vegetarians, there is milk.

For Muslims, they take egg in lieu of meat since you don't have to hallal an egg.

And interestingly, there are alcohol drinkers amongst Muslim in the Army, who sign up as drinkers!

IA is secular.

On the posts, where one got Meat on Hoof, you had to slaughter the lamb/ goat yourself. Most of the time, by the manner it was slaughtered, it became hallal. Who cared?

Mutton is Mutton!.

My troops are Buddhists and they are not supposed to kill. And yet we slaughter the Meat on Hoof and ate it!

Religion is confined to the Sunday Mandir Parade![/quote]


RayC ji,

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/buddhism/vegetarianism.asp

Meat eating in Buddhism

By Jayaram V

Meat eating was not prohibited in the early days of Buddhism. Even today meat eating is not prohibited by many schools of Buddhism. The early Buddhists accepted meat as they moved from place to place begging for food. Over a period of time detailed rules and regulations have been created to regulated the types of food a Buddhist monk can partake as food.

The early Buddhists believed that as long as the animal was not killed by oneself, or by ones orders or when it was not done for the purpose of pure pleasure, eating certain types of animal meat was not in contradiction with the principle of compassion for all living beings. However certain types of meat was not allowed even when these conditions were satisfied.

jaladipc
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Postby jaladipc » 06 Feb 2009 22:20

If indian can master the technology of ramjet for akash SAM with a speed of >mach 2.5 then why not the same can be implemented for brahmos?

A re-designed ramjet can serve the purpose instead of standing at the ruskies door for the TOT.

how difficult is it for us to design an enlarged version of ramjet for use in cruise missile?

It does ofcourse makes sense that if S-A reaches a speed of mach 2.5 then it should cruise more during its horizontal flight where g is constant as not in the case of surface to air flight.

it means a modified S-S ramjet should go theoritically and practically more than 2.5 mach with the same specifications right?

added later:

and how does it sound adding a radiation seeker to akash instead of the regular one and using it as a ARM?
With its weight of 700kg, almost all the A/C in IAF inventory can easily carry the missile.
Think abt this........if the range of a missile in surface to air mode is 25-35km, then obviously its range should be atleast double in air to ground mode.

It does makes sense having an ARM with a range of ~80km and that too reaching target with more than 2.5 mach. and busting all the radars :D

If we cant master the radiation seeker, then we can get TOT for the harpy seekers from ISrael :)


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