Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 03 Nov 2011 17:54

Stealth is a very misleading word, a more correct description would be low observable.

For example, an aircraft with radar LO features may be turkey on an IIR seeker http://i39.tinypic.com/197es8.jpg That's a B2 being tracked by Typhoon IRST

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolt%C3%A1n_Dani This chap shot an F117 using 60s tech.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 Nov 2011 18:36

jimmy_moh wrote:question to Oldies..... :
During our country was on war such as kargil/1971/65.. do the civilians faced any restrictions such as usage of fuel or other daily needs..? ,
did our our country faced any attrition in any of the daily needs of civilians..?

not during kargil, that was a local affair and well within India's resources. but there was food rationing in the earlier wars, or at least during '62 that I know of. but keep in mind that 60's and early 70's was also a period of severe food shortages.
people who were kids back then would be able to answer better.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Nov 2011 19:07

jimmy_moh wrote:question to Oldies..... :
During our country was on war such as kargil/1971/65.. do the civilians faced any restrictions such as usage of fuel or other daily needs..? ,
did our our country faced any attrition in any of the daily needs of civilians..?

I don't think there was any shortage as such during either war. Indians actually become very generous during such wars and in both wars I know that people worked overtime for free in addition to making donations of cash and gold to the National Defence Fund.

The main "restrictions" were very strict blackouts because air raids were expected at night and with no one having GPS/INS it was city lights that would be used for navigation. So all window glass was expected to be double pasted with thick black paper in addition to curtains for those who had them, and we used candles at night. No trafic with lights was allowed. We used to navigate in picth darkenss for our nefarious activities (slipping off to a friend's house and back)

1965 was in any case a lousy year to be alive in India. The India of today is no comparison.

abhishek-nayak · Post by **abhishek-nayak** » 03 Nov 2011 20:40

Guys,Guys i have just returned from Chandipur missile testing range. I saw all the four launch centers including wheelers and saw the live tank firing.

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 04 Nov 2011 15:56

Was the Chabahar port in Iran really built with Indian assistance? How did we manage to do it without causing massive takleef to Unkil?

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... fghanistan

(Or did ToI pull this out of its hind quarters?)

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 04 Nov 2011 16:11

Will start of here first instead of TSP thread/

Lalmohan wrote:i finally watched BBC's "Secret pakistan" last night - good programmes. ofcourse, absolutely nothing new for BRF'ites - but good that the story is being told so openly and clearly. the only new bit of info for me was that mushy's would be assassins were hanged. the question that is brewing in my mind is - when do the afghan talibs and the pakistani talibs become one and the same... perhaps all that we are gearing up for is a pashtun-punjabi internecine jihad, with the faujis taking sides or getting killed off. the outcome for pakistan as it exists today is looking bleaker by the second...

Professor-ji,
I find it hard to distinguish between Afghan Taliban and Paki Taliban also. I have questions though.

What incentive does a villager in western Pakistan border have to fight the Amreekis?
If a villager here joins a local mercenary leader - is he a Pakistani Taliban and is the leader a Pakistani Taliban head?
Why should the Pak. Taliban head fight the Amreekis? Does the ISI pay them? What other reason does the group have?
Amreekis are kafirs is fine...but is it really enough reason to convince people to fight them? What do the Taliban fighters get in return?

Can someone explain?

sum · Post by **sum** » 04 Nov 2011 19:15

sudhan wrote:Was the Chabahar port in Iran really built with Indian assistance? How did we manage to do it without causing massive takleef to Unkil?

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... fghanistan

(Or did ToI pull this out of its hind quarters?)

Dont think Chabar port was built with our help but definitely, the road connecting Chabar to interior Iran and Afg is being built by us.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 07 Nov 2011 03:22

From the Misc. pictures thread

rajeshks wrote: I have seen the peace station accomodations for both officers and jawans..
1. vistied my classmate's father once when he was commanding a unit of madras regiment. life was king size..
2. been to the official residences of few of my friends in chennai and it was average government accomodation.
3. been to the family accomodation given to a relative who was a jawan/nco. this was in Pune and the flat was new and good. i dont take it as standard bcoz he was the company commander's driver.

having said that I would like to point out something related.. behind every successful officer there is a woman who is ready to adjust and sacrifice many things.. i have a batchmate who was working in US, she returned to India, got married to a captain and moved to a remote place in Kashmir where he was posted with BRO. everything happened in a very short time span.. i have seen the photos of their accomodation.. she never complained, adjusted with it though in the immediate past she was used to high standard of living in US.. few years later she started working again but the guy was suddenly transferred to UP and it was a prestigious posting.. that particular establishment is in allahabad, bhopal and bangalore.. so i asked him why dont you 'opt' for bangalore due to obvious advantages.. his reply was "there is nothing like 'option' in army".. that says all and the lady quit her job went with him.. quality of accomodation is a small thing compared to the other compromises they make..

i wish to see all the officers getting atleast what an entry level IAS/IPS guy is getting..

Accomodation is complicated and not as simple as CO enjoys huge big house. Or officer enjoys big house or anything. While at same station and the same rank(my father's) we've stayed at what was a converted stable.(3 rooms linearly arranged, uniformly dingy and snake prone) to a 1100sq ft 2 bdroom to a huge house(And I mean really huge where, no exxagaration, my 600 sq ft. apt would likely snugly fit into a single bedroom) with a huge garden and multiple huge servant's quarters(a Capatin's accom from the Raj days). As a matter of fact the servant's quarter in the last place was nearly as big as the whole of the first place. It's purely a station and availability thing.

While lots of compromises are made by the family the acco thing is still a huge issue and is a regular part of the dinner table conversation. It varies wildly within a station and between stations. Most of the places we've stayed at except for a few were leftovers of the pre-indep. period.

For ORs the thing is even worse. A guy comes back from a field posting and find he still can't find acco for his wife and children(20-30% avail). Has to pay the rent for civil acco out of pocket. It's horrible for morale and is always a concern for the CO. Come to think of it, it's not a rare situation for officers either.

aniket · Post by **aniket** » 07 Nov 2011 08:16

Recently there has been a lot of talk concerning mining during Operation Parakram.I have a question.
Was this mining done by infantry personnel,mine laying vehicles or were these mines airdropped ?

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 07 Nov 2011 12:17

^ Mines were laid by sappers as well as some mine laying machines we had at that time.

Airdropping of mines isn't adopted since you can't mark the location of the mine for de-mining operations later on. During Parakram, the areas mined were fields where farmers were cultivating 2-3 crops a year. So all the more necessary to have 'accurate' location maps of the mines laid.

aniket · Post by **aniket** » 08 Nov 2011 19:18

Thanks

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 08 Nov 2011 21:47

@Rahul ji, Shiv ji, Parusaram ji and jagan ji and Chacko ji:
I have self deleted the x-posted threads in the IAF History thread and replaced them with another, complete, chronological post of the 1965 attack on Kalaikunda AFB.

decided that I should do a better job of it than the piecemeal I did earlier.

abhinavjo · Post by **abhinavjo** » 09 Nov 2011 07:39

From the Article on F35 posted on Livefist

It is the reason why a third of the MMRCA batch is touted to comprise tandem-seaters just as all the new Jaguars have been.

1 'New' Jaguars?....does this mean that we bought new Jags(I've read or misread

somewhere that India was planning to buy them from Oman.)
2. Can I see a Pic of an Indian twin seater Jaguar? Recent one would be lovely!

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 09 Nov 2011 08:18

Abhinavjo.
The author is talking about the last batch of jaguars orderedin 2001-2002 from HAL, the last aircrafts of this batch got handed over just 2-3 years ago, iirc.

The Aircraft on the extreme right is the Jaguar IB trainer..

abhinavjo · Post by **abhinavjo** » 09 Nov 2011 08:40

but isn't it a standard OP to procure a twin seater for training purposes? i mean when i look at procurement stats for MiG21,FL,BIS and so on, MiG29, Navy's KUB etc.
I understand that there has been a shift to twin seat config from now on as far as Su30 or PAKFA is concerned. But has that policy shift also been applied to Jaguars?

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 11 Nov 2011 18:41

Would it make sense for India to acquire AC-130 type gunships for mountain warfare?

My take on this is that if provided sufficient aircover, the AC-130 with 105 mm howitzers can pick out targets that are hard to reach for ground based howitzers, also they could stay out of range of potential MANPAD threats..

rajeshks · Post by **rajeshks** » 11 Nov 2011 19:55

sudhan wrote:Would it make sense for India to acquire AC-130 type gunships for mountain warfare?

My take on this is that if provided sufficient aircover, the AC-130 with 105 mm howitzers can pick out targets that are hard to reach for ground based howitzers, also they could stay out of range of potential MANPAD threats..

Air cover against what, MANPADS, AAA and SAM? AC130 is more like a sitting duck.. Even Canberras, MIG 21(?), 23s was shot above Himalayas. AFAIK uncle sam dont even use AC130 during day time.

Aaryan · Post by **Aaryan** » 14 Nov 2011 12:15

Sir,
How to upload new picture or youtube videos?? Kindly help me..

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 14 Nov 2011 13:45

I have a noob question. What is the payload bay of Nirbhay missile. Is it possible it to carry 5-6 of R-77 or Astra type missiles in its bay and lurk around important enemy airbases (during war). Once we have confirmed a formation take off from that base, queue the Nirbhay to release the payload, and AAM's taking their targets on their own?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Nov 2011 13:59

kmkraoind wrote:I have a noob question. What is the payload bay of Nirbhay missile. Is it possible it to carry 5-6 of R-77 or Astra type missiles in its bay and lurk around important enemy airbases (during war). Once we have confirmed a formation take off from that base, queue the Nirbhay to release the payload, and AAM's taking their targets on their own?

Raogaru the role that you envisage is of a UCAV (Unmanned Combat Aerial vehicle) like Bredator-djinn's cousin Reaper-bin-Pakhanistani, not a cruise missile.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 14 Nov 2011 14:01

Aaryan wrote:Sir,
How to upload new picture or youtube videos?? Kindly help me..

For pictures, upload them on a photo sharing website like photobucket and paste the link here using the 'img' tab.
Videos, upload them on youtube and use the 'youtube' tab.

Aaryan · Post by **Aaryan** » 14 Nov 2011 17:42

atreya sir thankx.. with your help i was able to post the pictures...

Its in BENIS thread...

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 14 Nov 2011 18:56

Your welcome. And no need to 'sir' me

member_20296 · Post by **member_20296** » 15 Nov 2011 15:19

Using this forum I want to put forward idea of having an inexpensive basic UCAV using Kaveri engine which carries a pair of deadly machine guns and a couple of AAMs to the sky.
Which can attack and down Fishbed swarm attacks !! No need to put even a radar on it.

Identify swarms from a distance of say 300 KMs away using AWACS and activate these ACs keep guiding them (what I call "BATs") remotely towards their targets and burst the guns open.

Cheap way of eliminating Swarms

what say guys we already have all the tech at hand just integration and testing is required.

adityadange · Post by **adityadange** » 15 Nov 2011 15:57

raghuraj,
concept is good. but if enemy fires AAM/SAM towars this drone how will it survive?

member_20296 · Post by **member_20296** » 15 Nov 2011 16:14

No worry we will make them cheap and make them enough

we must surprise swarms to achive best results.

When we attack SWARMs enemy can not use SAM as it will be counter productive for say just 5 such BATs attacking a bigger swarm (specially at night) will confuse them, now add tactics to it confused them enough by BATs formation so firing of AAM also cannibalize.

GopiD · Post by **GopiD** » 17 Nov 2011 03:22

Friends, I have a newbie query...

There has been a lot of news about recent success of Agni IV and about the technologies involved.

When compared to Agni III's weight of 48 tons, A4 with 17 tons is only approx 37% of A3's weight, but approximately compares to the quoted range of A3. I have read about the high-tech navigation innovations in A4 and with the use of composite, the weight has been reduced. But will replacing maraged steel with composites give such an asymmetric advantage to A4 comparatively to its predecessor? If it is, then its a quantum leap in missile tech for us, no?? With this tech, we will be able to develop ICBMs in relatively lower weight class than others, or at least from what was expected from us, no??

Or, is there something more than that meets the eye with respect to Agni III with such an humongous weight of 48 tons??

"If bulava missile took some where around 30 minutes or more to cover a range of 8000+ km. It reached an apogee of around 1000 km.", then, wouldn't the range of A4 be much higher than whats being quoted when it has reached an apogee of 900 km approx??

I guess there's a lot of ambiguity in the officially quoted figures.

But, please do shed some light for the pre-KGite in the Rocket science class...

member_20047 · Post by **member_20047** » 17 Nov 2011 17:53

A&N islands is very vital for our security against China. I personally stayed in Port Blair for around 6 years & I can quite confidently say that our Naval & Air asset there is negligible. We should build a strong navy & air force base there as soon as possible atleast at the same rate as we are doing in the rest of NE region. In case of a standoff with china, we need to make sure that we have choked them within strait of malacca. Under no circumstances we should allow PLAN submarines/surface vessels to sneak into Bay of Bengal.

I guess we need to develop following assests in A&N islands as soon as possible.

1)Base at least 1 squadron of sukhoi 30, preferrably in port blair as its more immune to effects of Tsunami as against Nicobar Islands- Under Airforce control.

2)Base long range bombers with crusie missiles/anti ship missiles as Singha suggested- Under Airforce Control.

3)Base few P8- I aircrafts for surveillance against submarines.- Under Navy control.

4)Long range surveillence equipments such as radars, etc-Under control of Airforce/Army.

5) A full fledged submarine base, with emergency repairing facility- Navy control.

6)Hidden Missile silos dispersed all along Andaman Islands-Army control.

7)Maybe a Carrier battle group in future, permenently stationed in Andamans.

Since, we have an unified command in Andamans, this will help us in improving the joint combat effectiveness of our military.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 21 Nov 2011 03:57

Why dont interceptors like mig21 have side view mirrors or a camera with wide angle lens ? IMO it will help the aircraft in front know the altitude of the pursuer

VinayG · Post by **VinayG** » 21 Nov 2011 04:10

Prabal wrote:A&N islands is very vital for our security against China. I personally stayed in Port Blair for around 6 years & I can quite confidently say that our Naval & Air asset there is negligible. We should build a strong navy & air force base there as soon as possible atleast at the same rate as we are doing in the rest of NE region. In case of a standoff with china, we need to make sure that we have choked them within strait of malacca. Under no circumstances we should allow PLAN submarines/surface vessels to sneak into Bay of Bengal.

I guess we need to develop following assests in A&N islands as soon as possible.

1)Base at least 1 squadron of sukhoi 30, preferrably in port blair as its more immune to effects of Tsunami as against Nicobar Islands- Under Airforce control.

2)Base long range bombers with crusie missiles/anti ship missiles as Singha suggested- Under Airforce Control.

3)Base few P8- I aircrafts for surveillance against submarines.- Under Navy control.

4)Long range surveillence equipments such as radars, etc-Under control of Airforce/Army.

5) A full fledged submarine base, with emergency repairing facility- Navy control.

6)Hidden Missile silos dispersed all along Andaman Islands-Army control.

7)Maybe a Carrier battle group in future, permenently stationed in Andamans.

Since, we have an unified command in Andamans, this will help us in improving the joint combat effectiveness of our military.

India's plans to develop andaman as Major Military Base - New Military Hub

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Nov 2011 04:32

rajanb wrote:@Rahul ji, Shiv ji, Parusaram ji and jagan ji and Chacko ji:
I have self deleted the x-posted threads in the IAF History thread and replaced them with another, complete, chronological post of the 1965 attack on Kalaikunda AFB.

decided that I should do a better job of it than the piecemeal I did earlier.

thanks a lot. it was great to read.

suryag wrote:Why dont interceptors like mig21 have side view mirrors or a camera with wide angle lens ? IMO it will help the aircraft in front know the altitude of the pursuer

they have rear view mirrors.

koti · Post by **koti** » 21 Nov 2011 15:31

http://rparmanik.wordpress.com/

Did not know where to post.

abhinavjo · Post by **abhinavjo** » 21 Nov 2011 19:50

What is that on a Mirage 2000?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/68 ... 26395.jpg/

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Nov 2011 20:03

ELTA EL/L 8222 self-protection jammer.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Nov 2011 20:05

abhinavjo wrote:What is that on a Mirage 2000?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/68 ... 26395.jpg/

Remora ECM pod

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Nov 2011 20:17

yup, I was wrong.
remora
http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/ecm_ ... _ready.jpg
8222
http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/FILES/8/26548.jpg

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 22 Nov 2011 16:28

A nice compilation of the LGM-118 testing..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHlYc_MzvLk

I have a question, what is being tested at 1:27?

and a interesting collapsible nozzle @ 3:17

member_20453 · Post by **member_20453** » 22 Nov 2011 19:01

My fellow Birathers, greetings, new here, looking forward to being an active member.

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 22 Nov 2011 19:09

Bumble-Bee wrote:My fellow Birathers, greetings, new here, looking forward to being an active member.

Welcome

Now, you shall be baptized and re-christened by the bradmins

member_20453 · Post by **member_20453** » 22 Nov 2011 19:25

sudhan wrote:
Bumble-Bee wrote:My fellow Birathers, greetings, new here, looking forward to being an active member.
Welcome

Now, you shall be baptized and re-christened by the bradmins

Well being a hardcore fan defence maniac, baptism is best when it's baptism by fire