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rsingh wrote:Proud of IN. Just one little logical consequence........pirates might hurt or kill Indian nationals amongst hostages. I think US and Russkies are doing the same but without publicizing it.JMT
This is where we need to give up our age old mentality of playing on safer side and show more aggression. if they kill our countrymen then all bets are off. we send more forces, go in , and also take initiative and kill more of them. these people are used to of attacking armless ships, they will run away like cockroaches if they see a bigger ship with bigger guns (not considering the khat factor here)
if they pose threat to the hostages then we should consider sending the marcos for rescue.
we need to talk to somali govt and patrol inside their waters and shoot at anything which has guns and rockets on board.
This is where we need to give up our age old mentality of playing on safer side and show more aggression.
Right. I thought of this........a la Dhooni vs Aussies. But I think it is better to pulverize any suspicious vessel we find and to keep quite. One fifth of cargo ships are under Indian flag (in this specific area). We should be very careful of this fact. JMT
vdutta wrote:
This is where we need to give up our age old mentality of playing on safer side and show more aggression. if they kill our countrymen then all bets are off. we send more forces, go in , and also take initiative and kill more of them. these people are used to of attacking armless ships, they will run away like cockroaches if they see a bigger ship with bigger guns (not considering the khat factor here)
if they pose threat to the hostages then we should consider sending the marcos for rescue.
we need to talk to the somali govt and patrol inside their waters and shoot at anything which has guns and rockets on board.
Some one had asked about last IN action against pirates (before this incident)
INS Tabar’s operation came nine years after the Indian Navy flexed its muscles in international waters by seizing a Japanese-owned freighter, the Alondra Rainbow, from Indonesian pirates.
They(Pirates) boarded a Hong Kong merchant vessel called Delight, which has 25 crew members, including Indians, early on Wednesday. The vessel, carrying around 26,000 tonnes of wheat, is being operated by the Islamic Republic of Iran Shipping Lines.
I hope the Somalis don't try any funny business with the Indian crew!!!
Otherwise some thing more drastic needs to be ensued
This is great publicity for IN and India. It is all over the global news channels. Last month we had the moon story, now this. India is being taking seriously now.
The interesting thing to watch is the distance of almost 2400 km away from Mumbai port that the IN is opperating.
The Saudi Arabian company negotiating with Somali pirates who brazenly captured the biggest prize in modern history does the world no favors. This global problem needs a coordinated, global response.
Negotiating away individual problems only arms these pirates so that they become more capable of hitting bigger and bigger targets. This cycle needs to be broken, and joint agreements on military protocol in piracy cases may help break it.
Consider the Indian Navy, which chose a different path. When an Indian ship was threatened, it answered fire with fire, sinking a suspected pirate "mother ship" and chasing off two smaller boats. The Indians made clear that lawlessness would not be rewarded. The Saudi response – negotiating terms with the lawless – simply encourages more deadly acts.
NEW DELHI (AP) — An Indian naval vessel sank a suspected pirate "mother ship" in the Gulf of Aden and chased two attack boats into the night, officials said Wednesday, as separate bands of brigands seized Thai and Iranian ships in the lawless seas.
-USA Today
Where's the U.S. Navy? We spend 3/4 of $trillion a year on the military and it's the Indian Navy that sinks these thugs. I know we have the capability to defend the shipping lanes. So what gives?
Sunilupa, but that still hasn't deterred the pirates. They just took another one hostage with possibly Indian Crew
I think more drastic action needs to be undertaken.....Hunt and seize/destroy!
The Saudi Arabian company negotiating with Somali pirates who brazenly captured the biggest prize in modern history does the world no favors. This global problem needs a coordinated, global response.
Negotiating away individual problems only arms these pirates so that they become more capable of hitting bigger and bigger targets. This cycle needs to be broken, and joint agreements on military protocol in piracy cases may help break it.
Consider the Indian Navy, which chose a different path. When an Indian ship was threatened, it answered fire with fire, sinking a suspected pirate "mother ship" and chasing off two smaller boats. The Indians made clear that lawlessness would not be rewarded. The Saudi response – negotiating terms with the lawless – simply encourages more deadly acts.
NEW DELHI (AP) — An Indian naval vessel sank a suspected pirate "mother ship" in the Gulf of Aden and chased two attack boats into the night, officials said Wednesday, as separate bands of brigands seized Thai and Iranian ships in the lawless seas.
-USA Today
Where's the U.S. Navy? We spend 3/4 of $trillion a year on the military and it's the Indian Navy that sinks these thugs. I know we have the capability to defend the shipping lanes. So what gives?
The Saudi Arabian company negotiating with Somali pirates who brazenly captured the biggest prize in modern history does the world no favors. This global problem needs a coordinated, global response.
Negotiating away individual problems only arms these pirates so that they become more capable of hitting bigger and bigger targets. This cycle needs to be broken, and joint agreements on military protocol in piracy cases may help break it.
Consider the Indian Navy, which chose a different path. When an Indian ship was threatened, it answered fire with fire, sinking a suspected pirate "mother ship" and chasing off two smaller boats. The Indians made clear that lawlessness would not be rewarded. The Saudi response – negotiating terms with the lawless – simply encourages more deadly acts.
Wow, DallasNews cant even differentiate between the two cases !! The Indian ship was a NAVAL ship, by definition armed and there for anti-piracy missions and thus the response. On the other the Saudi ship, was a COMMERCIAL liner, with no arms and ammunitions, could only surrender. Even if the ship was armed, it wouldnt have risked a firefight because of the 2 million barrels of oil, that wouldve blown the hell out of everyone. The part about global response is understandable, but the rest of the article is crappy enough. No offence to the poster !!
Wow, DallasNews cant even differentiate between the two cases !! The Indian ship was a NAVAL ship, by definition armed and there for anti-piracy missions and thus the response. On the other the Saudi ship, was a COMMERCIAL liner, with no arms and ammunitions, could only surrender. Even if the ship was armed, it wouldnt have risked a firefight because of the 2 million barrels of oil, that wouldve blown the hell out of everyone. The part about global response is understandable, but the rest of the article is crappy enough. No offence to the poster !!
This is where a N-UCAV would have helped us. I can only pity the idiots in MOD who don't have the vision to look forward in the future.
Let us not forget nearly 80 % of the maritime-fleet is manned by Indians. We should be fully projecting our might and setting a trend to protect our assets.
But the idiots run to the useless UN to draft a policy on international co-operation on maritime policing. Paper-pushing-pinheads.
anishns wrote:Sunilupa, but that still hasn't deterred the pirates. They just took another one hostage with possibly Indian Crew
I think more drastic action needs to be undertaken.....Hunt and seize/destroy!
this attack on delight happened at around the same time when Tabar was in action or even before. it was reported on TV alongwith the mother ship news.
that being said, one strong action is not going to deter a bunch of khat chewing thugs.
anishns wrote:Sunilupa, but that still hasn't deterred the pirates. They just took another one hostage with possibly Indian Crew
I think more drastic action needs to be undertaken.....Hunt and seize/destroy!
this attack on delight happened at around the same time when Tabar was in action or even before. it was reported on TV alongwith the mother ship news.
that being said, one strong action is not going to deter a bunch of khat chewing thugs.
According to a Russian report, the pirates have 3 motherships...all Trawlers of Russian origin..
There are several bands of these thugs operating in these waters. It has to be a concerted effort with UN sanction tp cleanse them and even an expeditionary force to land and blow them all up. These thugs may also be connected to Al Qaeda.
Dude praises Indian Navy - this should warm the hearts of jingo-abduls -
India's actions probably saved many more ships than the few it has protected and saved unnecessary costs, as well. Indian companies faced a $450,000 increase in shipping insurance costs due to the increased risk of piracy. That's a pittance here, but not in a country full of poor merchants trying to play by the rules and legitimately integrate into the global economy through trade. India's act was motivated by a desire to stand up for its nationals, but in reality, it stood up for all of us.
The West needs to heed India's example because its energy supply is at stake, and every ransom paid empowers the pirates and their terrorist allies. India's leadership and resolve should increase its international stature. That's what comes to nations that have the common sense to confront thugs.
Rahul M wrote:while all this publicity is certainly a welcome development, we shouldn't get too moved by what others say of us, whether positive or negative.
i agree. we should take it as a pat on the back and continue to do the good work. time to celebrate has not yet come.
TOI has a timeline of the events. the kashtans were probably kept in shutdown mode
as a direct fire/ram attack was probably unexpected. there is a gap of 6 mins between
pirates firing at Tabar before the Kashtan's "came online" and ended the contest in a
few seconds of belching. I hope shiv aroor and ajai shukla are able to get pix
from their sources.
NEW DELHI: INS Tabar opened heavy fire to sink a pirate "mother vessel" after pirates didn't heed to its call for almost 20 minutes.
Though INS Tabar fired a couple of "warning shots" in the air it was of no avail. Then began a cat-and-mouse game for around 90 minutes, with INS Tabar making repeated calls to the pirates to lay down their arms.
Suddenly, at 9.17pm, the pirates opened direct fire at the warship, either in panic or probably in the hope of scaring it away. That proved to be their undoing. Barely scratched, the Indian frigate retaliated with its Kashtan 30mm six-barrel Gatling automatic guns — meant for air defence but also effective against small sea targets — six minutes later.
The pirate dhow took several hits, triggering a series of explosions on it. "A fire also broke out, probably due to the exploding ammunition stored on the dhow. Almost simultaneously, the two speedboats were spotted breaking off to escape," said another officer.
INS Tabar gave chase to one of the boats but found it abandoned, while the other boat made good its escape in the darkness. On being asked about casualties among pirate ranks, the officer said, "It was dark...we did not go looking for bodies. Some pirates escaped on the second speedboat."
The last INS Tabar saw the pirate mother vessel was at 11.47pm when it was ‘‘listing dangerously to one side’’. In all probability, it sank soon after, even as the warship made its way to normal patrolling duty. ‘‘Since its deployment for anti-piracy duty in Gulf of Aden on November 2, when it replaced the earlier Godvari-class frigate positioned there, INS Tabar has successfully escorted around 35 ships, including a number of them flying foreign flags,’’ said the officer. INS Tabar, of course, had thwarted attempts in quick succession by different bands of pirates.
most ciws have 1 x 20-30mm 6 barrel gun, but the kashtan is pretty insane in that
it has 2. typical Ru fetish for overkill and redundancy incase one gets jammed by the
vast flood of shells being spooled in.
Good work by the IN, these somalian pirates arnt going anywhere soon, being a pirate in somalia is like being a CEO in europe...its that bad.
What i did find hilarious was that on BBC i read that the pirates warned INS Tabar to not come close otherwise they will blow it up . They are only armed with Ak-47s and Grenade launchers how are they going to blow up a guided missile frigate? Those guys must be high on something.
well you never know - a paki 50 yr old frigate is probably incapable of resisting even
that, and people could be stashing bales of hay (for the herd of goats inside the unused
hanger) near the stern which could catch fire and burn the ship down
We will have a true psy-ops victory when we save a cheeni-bound/cheeni-manned ship and escort it to safety all the while thumbing our collective noses at chaapay-maar-PLAN impotency.
The chappay-maars can then refer to their lil-led-book of pederast-Mao or the 'legendary' worthless Sun-Tzu 'art-of-war' on how to deal with the loss of face.
apparently the pirates have been emboldened by the pussyfooting by other navies which tried to avoid use of lethal force. USN actually went on record about some starwars gizmo that banged on your eardrums or something. doesn't work with these guys as far as I understand.
if the mother ship did try to ram Tabar and she wasn't using lethal force, she would have simply moved away which was what the thugs were expecting. presence of on-board explosives was also likely according to the IN report.
3 months ago: A handout combination of photos released by the Kuala Lumpur-based International Maritime Bureau on August 13, 2008, shows two ships suspected to be mother ships for pirates attacking ships with the aim to hijack them in the Gulf of Aden, off the coast of Somalia. The suspected trawlers are described as a long white, Russian-made stern trawler with names "Burum Ocean" (top) and "ARENA" or "ATHENA" (bottom). One of the trawlers is believed to be operating at approximately 60 Nautical Miles Northeast of Bossasso, Somalia in the Gulf of Aden. A Singapore-flagged vessel was attacked off the Somali coast recently by pirates who fired a rocket-propelled grenade that landed on the ship but did not explode.
Link
Very likely the type of vessel, if not the actual one, that was sent to DJ's Locker.
The other countries sent their conventional warships.
Why in the world pirates close to such ship?
They have to keep patrolling forever and even that is not gonna help.
This is a defensive move.
While IN sent it's stealthy Tabar which has radar signature of a merchant ship and it looks like that as well
No price guessing why only Tabar could sink the 'Mother ship'.
This is the agrasive and rather decisive move.
seems like deep sea trawlers capable of sustained ops...lot larger than the typical ones
operating on our shores or in the grand banks off canada.
about same size as the crab boats in the bering strait made famous by discovery/natgeo.
Yeah that Saudi tanker steps up the piracy to another level, its got $100m worth of crude. If no effective solution is found, ships may have to go the long way round South Africa like in the old days of Vaco Da Gama.
vavinash wrote:Merchant ships have high RCS and the pirates don't have any radars. Tabar wiped them because she had orders to engage forcefully unlike other navies.
Tabar was acting in self-defence.
If anything the timing was good for the Indian Navy. The Saudi tanker hijacking was a top story everywhere so the destruction of the 'mother ship' came just at the right time. The terminology also helped since mother ship brings images of the death-star and its like, not a large fishing boat towing two speed boats.
this is becoming big news. was just watching the Rachel Maddow Show. Alison Stewart standing in today for Rachel calls the pirate ship firing on INS Tabar akin to a punk tugging on Superman's cape And claims that India is acting up because $100 billion worth Indian shipping passes thru the region and which is why India has planted its flag on hte moon, blown up a pirate ship in the last few weeks
Its a strange day when Michael SAvage says that the US navy needs to act like the Indian Navy
A lot of right wing talkers are quite appreciative of India excepting of course types like Chuck Colson.
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