Surviving Nuclear War

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Surviving Nuclear War

Postby rsingh » 07 Dec 2008 02:47

Aim of this thread is to inform BRites and other Indians about what are the risks of Nuclear attack and how to survive a nuclear war.
Chances of India being nuked high. We have very dangerous,poor,injured (H&Dflat) and economical sinkhole neighbor which is ready to be condom for anybody who can pay the price. Although civilian govt is more likely to refrain from such foolhardy option but Bakistan elected govt is actually elected by army. Bakistani army is likely to use Nuclear Weapon(NW) if it feels that it is going to loose parts of Bakistan in conventional warfare. They can use NW on Indian Army on Bakistani soil. This scenario is possible only in the areas facing Rajasthan where Bakistani areas are thinly populated. This may justify Bakistani stand to International community which may pressure India to show restrain.
Second scenario is related to ultra hawkish elements in Baki Army which may try to decapitate Indian leadership and hit Indian morale by hitting main cities.
Third scenario consists of Baki (thus chini) nukes controlled Talibanis who have nothing to loose.
Fourth and most likely scenario is Some Bakistani Radioactive material is stollen (or given to) Talibanis who explode some dirty bombs on some locations in India.

Purpose of this thread is to discuss, analyze and rate different survival strategies for Aam Admi and perhaps Govt. I am sure GOI has some plan for saving leadership and command and controle chain during such attack,but nothing for common man. Kids in school are not informed, there are no "what to do in case of nuclear war" manuals.
Again not a great writer and surely not an authority on this topic. Closest I ever came to radioactive material was when I used Sn Isotops for study of uptake of minerals by plants. In those days we were given 1L of milk right in lab to offset the danger. I have heard reports that Russian workers and scientists are given red wine to combat effects of radiations.
Here are some intersting links
http://www.ki4u.com/survive/index.htm
http://www.oism.org/nwss/
http://www.captaindaves.com/nuclear/

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby Chinmayanand » 07 Dec 2008 03:33

Good work and good thought . I think in India, it should be shown on TV channels and handcopies should be distributed specially in the metros and Bangalore as they maybe the first and prime target . Thanks for being proactive.

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby Hari Sud » 07 Dec 2008 07:35

Survining nuclear war will not be easy.

Yet the Japs after receiving two hits were back on their feet within ten years.

Only thing which will prevent Pakistan not to use it is either US decapitate their weapons or Indian bombers are already in the sky for the return salvo.

Third possibility has a bit of time i.e. Indian submarines are not yet nuclear capable. In five years, if they become nuclear capable and cruise undetected in the Arabian Sea in the proximity of Pakistan, the foolhardy army in Pakistan will not use nuclear weapons. They want to victors and not dead.

This is the openning shot for this discussion

Thank you

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby Yogi_G » 08 Dec 2008 07:24

durgesh wrote:Good work and good thought . I think in India, it should be shown on TV channels and handcopies should be distributed specially in the metros and Bangalore as they maybe the first and prime target . Thanks for being proactive.


To add to what Durgesh added,

1. To protect our future citizens and our greatest treasure, we have to make sure Nuclear survival training has to be imparted to children and youth alike in schools and colleges.

2. Have drills often in the lines of fire drills in both private and public offices

3. Public shelters (is it possible for nuclear weapons?) in all major population centers

The nation on the whole needs something on the lines of NORAD...

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby shiv » 08 Dec 2008 08:04

Discussed earlier on BR but difficult to read
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=187&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby shiv » 08 Dec 2008 08:30

temporary deletion

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby Philip » 08 Dec 2008 16:28

Close all doors and windows,draw the curtains,hide under the strongest table,put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye!

Seriously,a good time to look again at the film,if one has the time,"The Day After".There will be unimaginable chaos in the absence of a strong law and order force,and anarchy will prevail.The first task if one is alive is to find some good weapons to defend oneself.If you have a dog you have a guard.Local defence teams should be set up to defend localities from marauding gangs.Turn you house/building into a fort and hoard as much of water and food that one can.Electricty,gas and petrol will become unavailable.There will be no telephones working properly and if working,will be almost impossible to use.Firewood will be in great demand,not to mention food,medicines,etc.Relief will take weeks if not months to come,that's if the war ends swiftly.

So if one really wants to survive,before any attack,first buy a commando/special forces book on "how to survive"! One will need a clockwork radio/torch to keep abreast of the situ in the country and hear emergency instructions,waterfilters/flasks which can purify any kind of water,a large stock of food,tinned preferably,ready to eat without cooking,dry fruit and nuts,energy bars/chocs,medicines and anti-biotics for general ailments,dog food for guardians.If one has a solar pump/mini windmill one could produce some emergency power.It all depends upon how soon the govt. of the day or rescue forces take to restore oder and governance again if at all possible.If one ha sthe foresight and moolah,get or build one's own personal nuclear shelter equipped with all mod cons. Oh.It would be great to have a years stock of DVDs and a home theatre to while away time too!

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby asbchakri » 08 Dec 2008 16:56

Philip wrote:Close all doors and windows,draw the curtains,hide under the strongest table,put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye!



:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Thats really good man :D

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby Lalmohan » 08 Dec 2008 18:32

whilst its good that we learn more about the effects of nuclear war and develop a sober appreciation of its horrors - unfortunately our rabid neighbour will not. just like jehovah's witnesses who believe that a nuclear war is god's way of cleansing the earth of sinners, our dear rabid jehadis will think of it as allah's way of cleansing the earth of kaffirs. this is the bigger danger.

we must therefore not allow our own sense and sensibilities to be held hostage to the rabid ones and their lahori logik. pakistan has to be taught - perhaps via television - that a nuclear war is bad for india but is utterly unsurvivable for them - waqt-e-jooj-aur-majooj

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby Philip » 09 Dec 2008 13:23

Good idea Lal.Perhaps the GOI/BR could courier to Zardari ,Gen.Kill-any and the "crore commanders" ,along with Pak TV,copies of "The Day After"!

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby amanpuneet » 09 Dec 2008 17:10

It all depends upon where we are hit and how many times we are hit and who is hitting us.If it is military establishment of Pakistan then we must be ready for lot of destruction and casualties ,I don't think they are going to strike us with one warhead as they all know there will be no Pakistan on earth after nuclear strike, so they will strike us with full nuclear force they have got ,to survive it we should hit them first.

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby prashanth » 09 Dec 2008 18:02

asbchakri wrote:
Philip wrote:Close all doors and windows,draw the curtains,hide under the strongest table,put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye!



:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Thats really good man :D


Seriously. :lol:

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby SuKan » 24 Dec 2008 17:25

'Nuclear command control system ready'

Dehra Dun (PTI): Stating that India's defence system is capable of facing any kind of attack including an atomic one, a top DRDO scientist said, adding, the organisation has developed a nuclear command control system for the purpose.

After attending the golden jubilee celebration of DRDO as chief guest, on Tuesday, W Selvamurthy Chief Controller Research and Development (Life Sciences) of Defence Research and Development Organisation told reporters that country is capable of combating any kind of attack whether it is biological, chemical or nuclear.

He said the organisation has developed such bunkers which can protect the people from effects of radiation of the nuclear attack. Apart from this, DRDO has also developed integrated shelters, radiation protective device and air borne early warning system, he added.

Selvamurthy further said that the country has also developed an interceptive missile system, which is capable of destroying a missile in the air. The test trial of the system has already been done, he informed.

This interceptor missile system has the capability to attack and destroy a target missile in air up to 50 kilometres, Selvamurthy said.

Describing the Light Combat Aircraft as the aircraft of future, Selvamurthy said its successful test trial was held just two days ago in the hills of Leh in sub zero temperatures.

He said DRDO has fixed a target of giving 20 such aircrafts to the Indian Air Force by 2010 and 10 more by 2012.

"This aircraft would replace MIG-21 in the coming days," he added.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holn ... 241533.htm

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby kit » 24 Dec 2008 17:40

I rather wish you Guys would rather stop even thinking about a nuclear war, there are no winners here.only losers.You would stand to lose your younger generations to come.
If there is indeed a chance of a nuclear war, unleash all the nuke bombs you have on the pig farm in one go at the onset itself.There is a small chance that you might save your own skin.Forget the no first use !.. its no use against a mad state.

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby p_saggu » 24 Dec 2008 19:42

Surviving a Nuclear Explosion
DO NOT PANIC: You are in a situation that you cannot control. Losing control of the faculties you do have will possibly cause you to die.
USE YOUR RESOURCES: There is a way to survive; however it will take a considerable amount of effort on your part to achieve that. You may be required to do very unpleasant things in order to survive.
DO NOT BE STUPID: Think before you act. Becoming irrational or losing focus in a given situation will accomplish nothing other than opening yourself up to conditions that may lead to either serious injury or death.
YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DIE: If you have the will to survive then you probably will. If you consign yourself to death, then you are going to die. If you have made it to the second week, it is a fairly good bet that you are indeed going to survive, barring some unforeseen calamity.
THINGS ARE DIFFERENT: Do not sit around and whine about everyone and everything being gone. If anything all this will accomplish is severe demoralization. This is the last thing you need at this point.
THIS IS NOT A RELIGIOUS EVENT: If the somewhat unlikely was to occur and The Lord(tm) has arrived on the planet, you'd know it. Be rational. By all means continue to nurture your spiritual or religious life, do not allow it to affect every decision made.

Blast or Notification of Major Exposure
a. FIND PROTECTIVE SHELTER IMMEDIATELY.
-FIVE MINUTES EXPOSURE AT A MAXIMUM.
-DO NOT LOOK AT THE BLAST.
-DO NOT REMAIN OUTSIDE.

b. Gather any protective equipment or survival items you may need. Think immediate survival; do not gather up such items as photo albums, jewelry, pets or anything else that does not contribute to your living past the next five minutes.
c. Improvised Shelter:
-Freeway drain culvert.
-Large abandoned stone or brick buildings. Preferably in a basement, large underground parking structures in major urban centers are to be used warily. The buildings above may collapse at a later date if incident is a premeditated attack. If problem is a large-scale accident then such structures are ideal for shelter. It would benefit you, (if you are in an area that is near a large nuclear facility such as a plutonium processing facility or major nuclear reactor it would not hurt to locate such a place prior to an actual need.)
-Cave or tunnel covered with three or more feet of soil or dirt.
-Foxhole at least 4 feet deep. (Remove topsoil within two foot radius of foxhole lip.
d. Radiation Shielding Efficiencies:
-One thickness, (i.e. listed measurement is considered a single thickness,) reduces radiation exposure by ½. Every additional thickness beyond that reduces the exposure by ½ as well.
-Use these while determining the effectiveness of a given shelter.
Iron/Steel: .7 inches
Brick: 2.0 inches
Concrete: 2.2 inches
Earth: 3.3 inches

Cinderblock: 5.3 inches
Ice: 6.8 inches
Wood (Soft): 8.8 inches Note: Assume all wood is soft.
Snow: 20.3 inches
e. Shelter Survival:
-Keep contaminated materials out of the shelter. In the event of good weather bury contaminated clothing outside of the shelter and recover later. If weather is bad then shake clothing strongly or beat with branches. DO NOT WRING OUT.
f. Personal Hygiene:
-Wash entire body with soap and copious quantities of any available water. Pay particular attention to fingernails and hairy areas of the body.
-If no water is available wipe all exposed skin surfaces with a clean cloth or uncontaminated soil.
-If conditions are dusty or fallout is still active: be sure to keep the entire body covered. Use appropriate respiratory protection or at a minimum keep a heavy cloth over the nose and mouth, be sure to wear goggles at all times. DO NOT SMOKE in a fallout affected area at any time.
g. Daily Radiation Time Table (Assuming no other equipment or notification.)
1-3 days: complete isolation. (30 minutes on third day allowable for acquisition of drinking water.)
4-7 days: Brief exposure. (30 minutes maximum.)
9-12 days: Brief exposure (1 hour per day.)
12-15 days: Light exposure (2-4 hours per day.)
15+ days: Moderate to normal exposure, dependant on scale of initial incident.

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby p_saggu » 24 Dec 2008 19:53

Chances are that if a person has survived the Blast itself without major burn injuries, the person is likely to make it alive as well.

The people who are in the immediate bast vicinity are killed by the high pressure blast wave, and the intense heat which will cause severe burn injuries (deep dermal burns and deeper).

Conventionally speaking any burn injury >40% deep dermal in indian settings is very serious, and might even be fatal eventually. With a radiation induced burning in the picture, the figure is likely to be worse.

The next thing is to avoid the fallout that occurs after the blast itself, with contaminated radioactive particles in the atmosphere and the soil. The winds will cause these to be inhaled by everyone, the particles themselves are radioactive.

So if you've survived, and are not needed in that area - LEAVE ASAP.

There is a definite increased risk of various cancers in those who have stayed back - prominantly thyroid, blood etc. But that will come into effect over a period of years.

The bottom line is that apart from the large number of deaths in the blast itself, most people who are not severely injured will likely survive some with complicaitons.

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby disha » 25 Dec 2008 01:27

kit wrote:I rather wish you Guys would rather stop even thinking about a nuclear war, there are no winners here.only losers.You would stand to lose your younger generations to come.
If there is indeed a chance of a nuclear war, unleash all the nuke bombs you have on the pig farm in one go at the onset itself.There is a small chance that you might save your own skin.Forget the no first use !.. its no use against a mad state.


So? How do you deal with a mad state? Anyway, one can wager that the mad state does not have effective missiles or effective nukes. Or assume that they have effective nukes and prepare for it.

One thing to note is that the mad state does not have more than 400 kt bum! More likely 20kt bums. So here you go jingoes ...

http://www.carloslabs.com/node/16

Map it and check out the blast radius... the thing about mumbai is, that it is small land surrounded by water on three sides!

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby Arun_S » 25 Dec 2008 07:18

Well here is what I will suggest.

All civilians should prepare for war and drill for it, and just prepare for typical aerial attack, as would do in case of non-nuclear setting. Store enough food, water and fuel for 2 weeks. The big thing to be prepared for in any war is fire, fortunately Indian residential areas are built of masonry so unless there is a timber deport or plastics warehouse next door your house need to be only ready to handle small fire

Atomic warfare with 2 bit Pakistan will at most involve few successful shots hitting Indian but in return one can be 100% sure that each Pakistani cities with >5 lakh population will see at least 100 kt yield dumped on the city.

As for Indian civilians if you are not already dead from direct heat blast and pressure blast (I.e. if you are >2 km from the ground zero) you will live will minimum damage to your health or property. Utilities connection and bazaar going experience will be severely curtailed, but if you have 15 days fuel and food to run your kitchen you will be pretty good shape. Just make sure you also have 1 Kg of iodized salt in home, and saturate your body for all salt need with that salt. That will ensure that salt from partially contaminated fresh food will do you no harm.

After blast close all large opening in the house (windows and vents) and allow only diffused air into room for first 48 hrs. This will keep the fallout dust cloud away from you. The fallout from 20kt fission is not that big. Keep wet towels to dry wash every time you visit outside the house.

After 10 days things will be good enough to venture out comfortably.

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby D_Prem » 25 Dec 2008 07:58

Any estimates on civilian casualties in case Pukes were to dump all their nukes on us (assuming 20 KT yield bombs)?

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby RayC » 25 Dec 2008 11:49

I wonder what will remain of Pakistan if they strike with nukes.

Apart from Indians, many would also like to strike them so that they (those who join the Merry band) are not identified in the confusion!

After all, with Pakistan gone, Osama is gone, Taliban is gone and all its derivative are gone (HUJI, MUJI, MAUJI or whatever) and international terrorism is gone!

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby Raj Malhotra » 25 Dec 2008 13:44

We must not forget that when all Pakis are dead then Indian borders will join/will be contiguous with Iran and Afghanistan.


Note:- Lest we forget, everybody dies; so the idea is to live with Honour, dignity, integrity till we are alive.

As somebody (Alexander said?) Some people live a thousand lifetimes in a day while others live a same day over and over again.

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby vasu_ray » 25 Dec 2008 13:51

In the next decade,

prune their mil hardware that they build using 'aid' money from time to time whenever they present an opportunity to us, diverting aid money will end in drain sooner or later is what they and their aid donors should understand. They can't resist provoking us.

curtail their nuke building supply chain using tech assets

build our own ABM defenses

All major metros should have underground mass transit systems that can double as nuke shelters for millions, NBC crews should help in the initial weeks after detonation. London tube is a good example. our dependence on oil is reduced that much.

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby kit » 25 Dec 2008 13:52

“A coward dies a thousand deaths, a hero only one.” Shakespeare

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby Arun_S » 25 Dec 2008 14:01

D_Prem wrote:Any estimates on civilian casualties in case Pukes were to dump all their nukes on us (assuming 20 KT yield bombs)?

I am piqued at the incomplete question, one should first ask how many Pakies will be killed in case of nuclear escalation and then ask estimate of Indian casualties. That is basics 101 of "Getting out of Dhimmitude".

From my post in Khyber Durra it appears that Pakistani nukes were confiscated (and all centrifuge and reprocessing plants frozen) by USA after 9/11 as punishment for ISI payment of money and logistics to Mohd Atta (PBUH) and his 19 heroes of 9-11 fame; surrender of Pakistani Nukes was one of the demands in the non-negotiable list of demands that was given to Gen. Musharraf when "You Are With Us or Against Us" seduction poetry read by GW Bush to join GOAT or be blown to stone age. When full nuclear stock was audited by USA it appears that Pakistan managed to slip and hide between 1-4 nukes. The understanding with USA was that this GUBO in private should not be made public, else the military will be overthrown (yes military nor Govt). And the Indians should remain convinced that their nukes remain potent (sic). But Yindus being Chankian got the wind (even our own N^3 figured it out) and established that the Hawa Mahal of Pakistani nuke is well .... Hawa Mahal onleeee. ( I heard the same from a senior afsar of Bhartiya Naabhikeeya Kaman).

It is believed that one of the slipped nuke has crossed into US borders and all US agencies have been running like headless chicken since then (2003) trying to locate the nuke.

Of the balance 1-3 nukes that could still be in the hands of TSP Army and stateless irregulars, the form factor does not allow mounting atop missile (again Unkill has reign of the missile launch key), so they can only be delivered to India via JDAM (Jihadi Delivered Ammunition) or aircraft. Both routes have high attrition rate and it is likely that at most likely only one of the 3 may explode in an Indian city. OTOH if they have only 1 left in some hidden caves in Northern Areas (Occupied Kashmir) the chances of it making across to Indian border is well .. . . very slim.

So go kick Gen. Kiyani between the legs, and be assured that he will only wimp like a 2 taka tuccha badmash in "Kothay Wali Gali".

Keep the powder dry, and not lose excrement body function control at the thought of bad things that can happen to India. Think of bad things that India will inflict on enemy.

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby kit » 25 Dec 2008 15:55

Arun, arent you missing the 'paki' nukes in Chinese possession ready for immediate supply ? Who will know whether it is paki or chinky for that matter ? Like i say Chinks are going to be real beneficiaries in a nuke war between India and Pakistan.What s there to prevent them transferring God knows what !? The drugged morons in pig sty would be more than happy to oblige the serpent.

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby Dilbu » 25 Dec 2008 16:21

One sure shot way to avoid this body count discussion: 'We Phuk them first' :mrgreen:
Seriously do you guys believe India will wait till we get nuked first ?

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby sonabh » 25 Dec 2008 21:57

Dilbu wrote:One sure shot way to avoid this body count discussion: 'We Phuk them first' :mrgreen:
Seriously do you guys believe India will wait till we get nuked first ?

i dont think our netas have the balls to do it first. so yes.

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby nevin » 25 Dec 2008 22:42

arunji,

hope you have written it seriously - its defenitely a very very comforting thing. i have read somewhere some years ago (dont ask me the source and link etc... i dont have it) that pukiland has more nukes than us and stuff like that. a couple of days ago there was a write up in 'the hindu' by some american guy (again forgot the name) claiming that uncle sam has all the exact locations of the paki nukes and they would be blown to the kingdom come if they move it an inch.

and how credible is this story about the missing paki nuke in north america - if true, then thats defenitely serious stuff. :shock: :shock:

and any idea how much missiles they have of gauri and shaheen series - wiki gives some astronomical figures. dont know which dork is editing all these stuff
Last edited by nevin on 25 Dec 2008 22:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby Chandragupta » 25 Dec 2008 22:47

Arun_S wrote:Well here is what I will suggest.

All civilians should prepare for war and drill for it, and just prepare for typical aerial attack, as would do in case of non-nuclear setting. Store enough food, water and fuel for 2 weeks. The big thing to be prepared for in any war is fire, fortunately Indian residential areas are built of masonry so unless there is a timber deport or plastics warehouse next door your house need to be only ready to handle small fire

Atomic warfare with 2 bit Pakistan will at most involve few successful shots hitting Indian but in return one can be 100% sure that each Pakistani cities with >5 lakh population will see at least 100 kt yield dumped on the city.

As for Indian civilians if you are not already dead from direct heat blast and pressure blast (I.e. if you are >2 km from the ground zero) you will live will minimum damage to your health or property. Utilities connection and bazaar going experience will be severely curtailed, but if you have 15 days fuel and food to run your kitchen you will be pretty good shape. Just make sure you also have 1 Kg of iodized salt in home, and saturate your body for all salt need with that salt. That will ensure that salt from partially contaminated fresh food will do you no harm.

After blast close all large opening in the house (windows and vents) and allow only diffused air into room for first 48 hrs. This will keep the fallout dust cloud away from you. The fallout from 20kt fission is not that big. Keep wet towels to dry wash every time you visit outside the house.

After 10 days things will be good enough to venture out comfortably.


What is the maximum yield of Indian nuclear warheapds & that of Porkis? Any links or sources please?

Oh and that story about Ankil sitting tight over Porki nukes, how credible is it? :lol:

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby Arun_S » 26 Dec 2008 01:01

Well this thread topic is about discussing "Surviving Nuclear War" so let us not digress.

My statements were to put context to discussion in terms of quantum of nuclear strikes that Pakistan is capable of delivering and preparing accordingly.

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby SaiK » 26 Dec 2008 01:28

sonabh wrote:
Dilbu wrote:One sure shot way to avoid this body count discussion: 'We Phuk them first' :mrgreen:
Seriously do you guys believe India will wait till we get nuked first ?

i dont think our netas have the balls to do it first. so yes.

its the doctrine mr watson. NFU->MAD., then go ahead and use it. its not about balls.

Since our doctrine is NFU, and still we have not clearly indicated what defines "first strike", its the detection of a nuclear launch or a destruction by a nuclear launch, we are vulnerable to beheaded by paki MAD doctrines. this is the failure we had discussed, and may be its all in "dont ask, dont tell", till we get there. else, there is no reason to be NFU while a neighbor is MAD.

Hence, having said that, there is this core reasoning that we need NBC shelters for the masses.

1. private shelters - each home is built with basement that is NBC proof. [most expensive]
2. area shelters - locality based, layout based, city based- depending on the population requirement. its better be locality based, since we could 1000 NBC shelters in a city be built. And each of these shelters can be rented out to citizens as insurance for NBC attack. those who wants to be saved, would buy this insurance to be housed against a massive siren.
3. while the above 1,2 is for the doctrine definitions that is how to survive after launch, it would better to have ABMs, that prevent the ballistics to reach atmosphere. but, the detection of the launch and delta time required to respond as NFU(includes counter attack and ABMs) is expensive as well.

it is important, that we know the launch happened within seconds. [impossible for the current learning and setup]. why this is important because, pakistan is so close for an ABM shield.. a cruise attack is also possible.. or even a truck loaded with NBC can be done as well, and not to forget millions of self destructing bakis can board trucks and samjuta and attack with NBC materials.

we have to look at this in a holistic view.

Arun_S
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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby Arun_S » 26 Dec 2008 01:36

Chandragupta wrote:Oh and that story about Ankil sitting tight over Porki nukes, how credible is it? :lol:

As an aside please hear Capt(r) Bharat Verma speak thus at 3:00 minute mark.
UTube: Kal Tak Express News Zaid Hamid vs Bharat Verma 5]

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby p_saggu » 26 Dec 2008 02:25

Thanks Arun_S for your post clarifying thing vis-a-vis the status of Pakistan's Nuclear Hawa Mahal.
Gives some comfort and closure to a lot of angst a lot of people have had.

Please continue on the path of dissecting more on Pak's nuclear programme.
1. Did they test one of their own prior to May 28th which did not go off? (the one that Helmet Kohl referred to at G8)
2. How many did they test on 28 and 30th of May? Importantly did they test CHIC-4 or some new device that the Chinese wanted to test? I may sound like a conspiracyheorist but the Chinese did announce a few months later that they had Neutron bomb tech - which they had not mentioned all these years of testing and being an overt nuclear power.
3. Did they again try and test their own manufactured bum on the 30th? the yield was very very small, did not trouble the seismographs much.

Thanks again for your reply on that very important subject...

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby p_saggu » 26 Dec 2008 02:31

4.And finally, how final was the confiscation of Pakistan's nukes and centrifuges? Were they dismantled and destroyed - Chapter closed.
Or have they been PAL-led for now, but could be revived in the future?
5. What is the nature of the 1-3 devices that they now have? I mean what are their dimensions? are they unweildly enough to pose difficulty in transportation by human carriers? Do they conform to the dimensions of a Babur cruise missile (This I think is the only weapon that could sneak upto some depth into india's landmass that an Eff-Solah couldn't)

If one of these could reach Continental US how likely is one to have reached Bangalore? Given Hamid Gul's JDAM threat?

Awaiting your thoughts on the above eagerly.

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby vasu_ray » 26 Dec 2008 05:22

guess what, got to be careful about thinking of ab initio solutions when nuclear blackmail by TSP, Caliphate dreams among others have been a burning issue for a long long time and some history of action/inaction/reaction by players before has happened.

IF we are in the know of TSP's nuke status, then mumbai massacre was a message that JDAM is a real possibility among other objectives?

if paki subs join the action by transferring the devices in stealth along any part of our coastline? put that in a pick up truck and trundle towards Bangalore... or any city for that matter. Interception once they have reached the coast will only lead to detonation by the suicidal. so now we have a naval priority of sinking the subs and better interception strategies. If not a nuke even a Cole like incident can happen.

In the future, Coastal surveillance will go some way and adding a fleet of midget subs that can operate in the 50-100 km coastal zone to retain the element of surprise helps unless one is willing to spend the next 25 years building 25 subs only to find a jihadi and their asymmetric handlers not wanting to wait for so long.
Last edited by vasu_ray on 26 Dec 2008 09:05, edited 2 times in total.

D_Prem
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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby D_Prem » 26 Dec 2008 07:10

Arun_S wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:Oh and that story about Ankil sitting tight over Porki nukes, how credible is it? :lol:

As an aside please hear Capt(r) Bharat Verma speak thus at 3:00 minute mark.
UTube: Kal Tak Express News Zaid Hamid vs Bharat Verma 5]


I see your point Arun, but I think we shouldn't take such remarks at face value...at least it doesn't give me much comfort.
I think we're all best off analyzing the worst case scenario and then preparing a contingency plan.

Regardless of our difference in opinion, I think we can all agree that the situation is getting worse by the day. Simply put each passing day means that more Indian lives will be claimed by a growing Paki arsenal.

On a separate note, I wish we had some nice ABM system to tackle this Puki menace like the S-400. Its a system I've always been very passionate about. Who knows we might have it already...but I have a creepy feeling that its just wishful thinking.

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby ashdivay » 26 Dec 2008 13:08

Hari Sud wrote:Survining nuclear war will not be easy.

Yet the Japs after receiving two hits were back on their feet within ten years.

Only thing which will prevent Pakistan not to use it is either US decapitate their weapons or Indian bombers are already in the sky for the return salvo.

Third possibility has a bit of time i.e. Indian submarines are not yet nuclear capable. In five years, if they become nuclear capable and cruise undetected in the Arabian Sea in the proximity of Pakistan, the foolhardy army in Pakistan will not use nuclear weapons. They want to victors and not dead.

This is the openning shot for this discussion

Thank you

Yeaaa ??? but look at Jap now, its nothign but a lap dog of big power.
Regards
Ash

Philip
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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby Philip » 26 Dec 2008 16:51

6 months ago I told a friend that judging from ominous signs I should think of building a nuclear shelter.He laughed me out of it,but here we are,with the land of the pure breathing war until the "last drop of blood"...what a ham Zardari is!

Very seriously,in the aftermath of 26/11,the GOI should immediately start educating people on the possibility of India suffering a surprise nuclear attack from Pak.Civil defence organisations in every large town and city that is a potential target,should begin to plan for just such a scenario,otherwise,total anarchy will prevail,with no law and order at all.Underground bunkers for stocking food,medicine and other essential material should be built,along with local police command centres in such an eventuality.Every hospital and major building,like educational institutions,public buildings,etc.,should have basements/air raid shelters that can also serve as nuclear shelters.The key needs for survival will be pure water,food and medicine.In the UK,during WW2,there was a spate of air raid shelters dug in people's homes and gardens.One of my relations still have their air raid shelter in their back garden.The nation should realise that like Israel,we are at the beginning of a new era in our inimical relationship with Pak,which is being surreptitiously supported by an assortment of nations because of its capability to perform "tricks" for treats!

A white paper on the issue should be demanded in the house,nationwide planning for such an eventuality should start immediately ,how the nation is going to survive a nucelar strike from Pak or China or both! The role of ex-servicemen here could be of great assistance,used as they are to discipline and committment. A survival kit should also be brought out so that individuals can make some start for themselves in preparing for the worst throught their own efforts.Only the paranoid survive!

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby Lalmohan » 27 Dec 2008 04:54

the clip is morbidly amusing. unfortunately there will not be any pattey left in pakistan to tie around the survivors...
the panipat dialogue was hillarious - zaideebabee is on class A maal

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Re: Surviving Nuclear War

Postby vsudhir » 27 Dec 2008 07:04

Maintain safe-houses in smaller towns amongst close friends n relatives, if you happen to currently reside in a metro.

At the 1st sign of trouble, decamp to the safe-house.


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