International Naval News & Discussion

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Philip
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 02 Jan 2012 16:05

Here's a report on the Iranian "Qader" cruise issile reportedly with a range of 200km,pic being launched from a warship.If reports are tre that Iran possesses lrge numbers of these missiles,apart from its earlier inventory of Chinese Silkworm anti-ship series,many mounted on mobile launchers,there could eb quite an exciting fireworks display in the Straits ,should the baloon go up.

Iran Launches Anti-Ship Cruise Missile in Naval Wargames

TEHRAN (FNA)- The Iranian Navy launched its powerful anti-ship Qader (Mighty) cruise missiles during its naval wargames, codenamed Velayat 90, in international waters in the Sea of Oman and the Indian Ocean on Monday.

Xcpt:
The successful firing of the missile which is a remarkable achievement by capable Iranian scientists declared the military might of the Iranian navy during the last day of the ten-day drills.

Deputy Commander of the Iranian Navy and Spokesman of the Drills Admiral Seyed Mahmoud Moussavi said the missile managed to hit the specified targets with precision and totally destroyed them.

He said the ultra-advanced and self-relying missile system has remarkably improved in radar, satellite, precision, range and navigation terms compared to its predecessors.

Late in September, the Iranian Defense Ministry supplied large numbers of Qader missiles to the naval forces of the Army and the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) to boost Iran's naval power.

The Iranian defense minister said at the time that Qader is an anti-ship cruise missile with a range of 200km and enjoys a short launch time and is able to hit all naval vessels, including frigates and warships, as well as onshore enemy targets.

Also on November 21, the Iranian Defense Ministry supplied a large number of highly advanced coast-to-sea cruise missiles to the Army's naval forces.

The move came on the verge of the National Navy Day on November 28.

Tehran launched an arms development program during the 1980-88 Iraqi imposed war on Iran to compensate for a US weapons embargo. Since 1992, Iran has produced its own tanks, armored personnel carriers, missiles and fighter planes.

Yet, Iranian officials have always stressed that the country's military and arms programs serve defensive purposes and should not be perceived as a threat to any other country.

Iran's naval power has even been acknowledged by foes. In a Sep. 11, 2008 report, the Washington Institute for the Near East Policy said that in the two decades since the Iraqi imposed war on Iran, the Islamic Republic has excelled in naval capabilities and is able to wage unique asymmetric warfare against larger naval forces.

According to the report, Iran's Navy has been transformed into a highly motivated, well-equipped, and well-financed force and is effectively in control of the world's oil lifeline, the Strait of Hormuz.


Philip
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 06 Jan 2012 04:38

The Russian sub fire was more serious than thought of,suspected to be inside the torpedo compartment.Go into the link for a v.good pic of the fire.

http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/russi ... e-serious/

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Gerard » 06 Jan 2012 06:49


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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 06 Jan 2012 08:23

is the desi HWT meant for ships only or will work from subs also. might be a good idea to move to that!

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 09 Jan 2012 09:20

V.Good pic here in this report ab out the fire,showing the hole in the torpedo compartment clearly.

http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/nucle ... y-deepens/

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby VinayG » 09 Jan 2012 12:50

VinayG wrote:Fire on a nuclear submarine "Yekaterinburg" (location of the accident). Video



from this video i posted one can clearly see the firefighter are pumping water into the torpedo hole at 0.40 rather than an external spray

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 25 Jan 2012 13:23

http://english.ruvr.ru/2012/01/24/64511847.html
Voice of Russia.

New submarines for Russia's nuclear force

Xcpts:
The Russian Strategic Nuclear Force is to get two new missile submarines this year. They are the “Yury Dolgoruky” and the “Alexander Nevsky”.

By 2018, the SNF will receive 8 submarines, four for the North Fleet and four for the Pacific Fleet. Thus, the Russian potential nuclear deterrent force, while already being very powerful, will be boosted even further. All the country’s potential enemies know full well that if an aggression is launched on Russia, the response will be quite devastating. The nuclear response may not be by sea, but by land, says Victor Litovkin, senior editor of the “Independent Military Review” journal.

“The Russian nuclear deterrent is fully operational and neither the U.S. nor NATO dares attack the country. The beefing up of the Russian naval fleets will further strengthen its nuclear deterrent potential, the more so, that for the first time the new “Borei” class submarines are to carry 16 “Bulava” nuclear missiles with 6-10 warheads each. The remaining subs, including the “Vladimir Monomakh” will be equipped with 20 such missiles each. It should be said though that all the above mentioned missiles and warheads should conform to the signed START-3 Treaty”, Victor Litovkin said.

“START-3 enjoins Russia and the U.S. to keep 700 means of delivery plus 100 in store, and 1,550 nuclear warheads each. By 2020, Russia will have in its northern regions, up to 11 cruisers, the biggest anti-submarine concentration in history. The American anti-missile defense will not be in a position to pose a threat to the Russian Armada, no matter where it is deployed.”

The Arctic Sea is Russia’s most advantageous area, because it is very difficult to detect the country’s missile cruisers under the thick ice. The Russian designers of the missile systems all say that there is no anti-missile device that could prevent Russia’s strategic missiles and warheads, which fly at hyper-sonic speed, to hit their intended targets.......


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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 30 Jan 2012 19:59


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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 04 Feb 2012 10:12

Russian Strategic Subs to Resume Routine World Patrols

Russian strategic nuclear submarines will resume routine extended patrols in international waters around the world in June 2012, Russian Navy Commander Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky said.

“On June 1 or a bit later we will resume constant patrolling of the world’s oceans by strategic nuclear submarines,” Vysotsky said at a meeting with naval personnel on Friday.

The annual number of extended patrols performed by Russian strategic nuclear submarines and nuclear-powered attack submarines has dropped from more than 230 in 1984 to less than 10 today.

The Russian military believes, though, that the submarine fleet is still the backbone of the Russian Navy, and that it will continue to play an important deterrent role in the future.

The Russian Navy has 12 nuclear-powered strategic submarines in service, including five Delta-III class, six Delta-IV class and a Typhoon class vessels. Two Typhoon class submarines, the Arkhangelsk and the Severstal, remain in reserve at a naval base in Severodvinsk in north Russia

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 04 Feb 2012 10:58

Russia is rebuilding its navy from the bottom up.Interestingly,the success of the Talwar class frigates which it is building for the IN,based upon the famous Krivak class frigate of the Cold War era,has prompted the Russian navy to want similar warships for itw own fleet.

http://en.ria.ru/analysis/20120203/171119218.html

Building quietly and stubbornly

Still, it’s inaccurate to say that only one-off vessels are being constructed. Last Wednesday, two ships were laid down in St. Petersburg: the Project 22350 Admiral Golovko frigate and the Project 20385 Gremyashchy corvette.

The Golovko is the third vessel in the Project 22350 class. The first one – Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov – hit the water in October 2010 and the second (Admiral of the Fleet Kasatonov) is scheduled to be launched this year. The Gremyashchy is formally the first Project 20385 ship, but it is a further development of Projects 20380 and 20381 corvettes, two of which have already joined the Baltic Fleet, with one more undergoing trials and another under construction. Current contracts provide for the building of eight Project 22350 frigates (including the Gorshkov and the Kasatonov) and eight Project 20385 corvettes (the Gremyashchy will be the first).

The Russian Navy is not obsessed with grand-scale projects or the “de facto global standard” – strike groups of heavy ocean-going ships deployed around nuclear aircraft carriers. Even at its height the Soviet Union failed to live up to that standard with reasons ranging from weaknesses in industry and ship repair facilities to the varying rants of top military and defense industry leadership.

The Russian Navy orders simple and ordinary workhorses for the sea. When a large number of ships was decommissioned in the 1990s (the non-strategic portion), it left a big gap in the country’s naval forces.

The commissioning of single surface vessels for each main class (like the Pyotr Veliky in 1996) did little to prevent the overall degradation of Russia’s four fleets.

Project 20380/20385 corvettes (or more precisely, multi-role short range escort vessels) are intended to close the gap in the coastal defense forces.

Project 22350 frigates (multi-role offshore patrol vessels) are believed to be the core of Russia’s new Navy now. In the early 2000s, when this project was accepted as promising, the number of vessels to be built was 30. It is difficult to appraise such Napoleonic plans, but the approach has not changed: the volume of construction anticipated is up to 20 units over the next 15 to 20 years.

Next in line is the development and construction of ocean-going destroyers. A competition is currently under way for the best project. These ships need to be large enough and well-armed. They will be in fact missile cruisers rather than destroyers. The Navy is growing “from the bottom up” as it tries out new directions and unifies the armaments on its new vessels.

Roman Trotsenko, the head of United Shipbuilding Corporation, who touts the new shipyards at Kotlin Island, regularly promotes the idea of a nuclear aircraft carrier. The military is cautious: it says the State Armaments Program till 2020 does not mention an aircraft carrier. Yet it has launched a series of research and development projects just in case to determine the role and place of such ships in the Navy of the future.

The tendency of the Russian military to save costs and unify the fleet’s missiles is worth a separate comment. In the Soviet days, the Navy went on a spree of producing “unique” strike missile systems with incompatible launchers and missiles. In each case the adoption of one or another system was absolutely justified by tasks at hand. But it all produced a monstrous zoo full of combat weapons in the Navy. The defense industry, accustomed to spending freely, also lent a hand: sometimes military experts, who were practically-minded, combined a new missile with an old launcher. The result was self-evident.

Take, for example, the saga of Project 670 and 670M submarines, which were to be equipped with one missile system (there were plans to arm older submarines with the new Malakhit missile with an extended range). The upshot, however, was that each project retained its original armaments – until the boats were decommissioned in the early 1990s.

But times change and the money, not a lot even in the glorious era of Fleet Admiral Sergei Gorshkov, came to an end. The concept of a multi-purpose ship firing system became overriding: all ships in the basic classes – including Projects 20385 and 22350 and their likely cousins (ocean-going destroyers) – are now to be equipped this way.

In effect, it is a group of unified vertical launchers which offer a wide range of configurations. A ship equipped with this multi-purpose system can carry anti-ship Oniks cruise missiles or missiles from the all-purpose Kalibr system (in three configurations: supersonic anti-ship, subsonic for engaging ground targets and anti-submarine). Future plans contemplate extending this armory by including surface-to-air missiles, although for the time being the new system is employed only in strike systems.

The delay in commissioning Project 22350 vessels (the first ship was laid down in 2006) suggested a simple solution. It was decided that the amount of time needed to start the construction Gorshkov class ships could also be spent on a simultaneous commissioning of Project 1135.7 frigates.

This frigate is a very interesting ship. It is based on Project 1135.6 – a distant descendant of Soviet Project 1135 patrol ships developed for the Indian Navy (known as Talwar-type frigates). The Baltic shipyard has already delivered the first three vessels of this class to India. Three more are under construction at the Yantar shipyard in Kaliningrad.

The Russian Navy, which badly needs new ships, has requested a “domestic” version of the Talwar, code-named 1135.7 instead. The projects turned out to be so similar that many systems adopted for the 1135.7 turned out to be systems developed for overseas customers and until recently they lacked the authorization for use in the Russian Armed Forces.

The Russian Navy has now placed orders for six Project 1135.7 frigates with Yantar. Two of them are already laid down: the Admiral Grigorovich in December 2010 and the Admiral Essen in July 2011. For 2012, plans call for the start of two or three more ships, and one or two in 2013.

But the feeling is that six frigates are not the limit: Project 22350 is costly and needs to be brought up to date. The current brass, badly shaken by the 1990s disaster, is holding to the maxim: “If it works, don’t fix it.” So if the 1135.7 is accepted by the Navy, a large series will be built – perhaps in an upgraded configuration.

This will be the Russian surface fleet for the 21st century: tight-fisted, pragmatic and knowing its limits. Public opinion seems abashed to see its military in this light – but it will have to get used to it.


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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 06 Feb 2012 09:46

Gripping tale of a US and Russian sub collision kept secret until after the Cold War.

Xcpts:
Best of Tim Woodward: Memories of submarine collision haunted Boisean
- Idaho Statesman

Read more Best of Tim Woodward

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
GET A COPY OF TIM’S NEWEST BOOK

“Destination Idaho” by Tim Woodward ($14.95) is a collection of columns, profiles and stories about Tim’s life in Idaho as a husband, father and roving reporter. It’s a must-read for those who love Idaho.

Books are available at idahostatesman.com/timbook or at amazon.com and in the Idaho Statesman lobby. The lobby is open 8:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. Monday through Friday.

Editor’s Note: This column was previously published on Jan. 20, 1999. It was part of a series of columns called “Lunch with Tim.”

When Rod Caprai explained why he’d be an interesting lunch partner, I didn’t quibble.

“I may be the only Boisean who has been in an underwater collision with a Soviet nuclear submarine, “ he said.

And how many people can say that?

Caprai wanted to talk about it because he finally can. Submariners don’t talk about their work, because it’s so secret. Caprai went 29 years without telling his story. So you can imagine his surprise when he saw it last month on “60 Minutes.”

The story was about a collision between a Soviet submarine, the Black Lila, and an American nuclear submarine off the coast of Russia in 1970. Caprai, now the owner of a Meridian equipment business, was part of the navigation crew of the U.S.S. Tautog.

“Our job was to follow Russian subs and take them out in the event of nuclear war, “ he said. “... We should have backed off, but some of our captains were risk-takers. They tried to outdo each other.

“I was studying in the sonar room when it happened. I thought we’d been bombed.”

A hundred feet longer than a football field, Black Lila tore through the Tautog’s sail, the tower on a submarine’s hull.

“People were thrown everywhere. The spot where I’d been studying was where the sonar equipment landed. It was smoking and sparking, and we were taking on water. I was scared to death.”

The Black Lila headed for the bottom and was presumed lost. The Tautog didn’t search for wreckage or survivors. The Navy was more concerned with security than with the lives of Russian sailors.

The Tautog limped to Pearl Harbor, where it was ordered to land after dark with all of its lights off. In port, a drape was used to hide the damage.

The secretary of Defense notified President Nixon, who opted for silence. The hit and run of a nuclear submarine with more firepower than all of the bombs dropped in World War II never was reported to the Soviet Union or the American people.

“It was the sort of thing they were afraid would take us to the brink of war, “ Caprai said. “We had a cover story that we’d hit a derelict hulk.”

Caprai was 21. Now 50, he spent his adult life believing the Russians died.

Until he saw “60 Minutes.”

“I thought they were all dead, and, suddenly, here was this old guy holding up a piece of our boat.”

The “old guy” was the Black Lila’s captain, who surfaced after the breakup of the Soviet Union to say his ship had survived. The incident is a chapter in “Blind Man’s Bluff, “ a new book on submarine espionage.

Caprai still has nightmares about it. In his dreams, he walks the corridors of a submarine and sees faces of crew members, draped in cobwebs.

He wishes he’d known the truth sooner.

“I never felt responsible, because I wasn’t calling the shots, “ he said. “But I felt bad for the Russians. When I finally knew, I thanked God they didn’t go down. For all those years, I thought 110 young men died because we were doing our cat and mouse game.”

Was any of it necessary?

“It was the Cold War, “ he said. “It’s the way it was.”

Read more here: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/02/0 ... rylink=cpy

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Kailash » 09 Feb 2012 15:02

Russian Navy to Drop Lada Class Subs – CinC Vysotsky

The Russian Navy has decided against construction of Lada class submarines (Project 677) and will instead modernize its existing boats, Navy Commander-in-Chief Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky said in an interview with RIA Novosti.

The design of the diesel-electric Lada class was completed at the end of the 1990s, but none of the planned boats have entered service, although the lead ship in the class, the Saint Petersburg, is undergoing trials with the Baltic Fleet, Vysotsky said.

“The Russian Navy does not need the Lada in its current form,” he said.

Vysotsky also said the first the non-nuclear Russian submarine with anaerobic propulsion may begin trials in 2014.

Currently all of Russia’s submarines are either nuclear or diesel-electric powered.

“It is entirely possible we will receive a test version of an air-independent power plant in the next few years. On boats of the Lada class, two of which are already laid down. Trials may begin in 2014. That is absolutely realistic,” he said.

In addition, all of Russia’s active strategic submarines will be armed with Liner ballistic missiles, an advanced version of the Sineva missile, Vysotsky said.

“For now only those on combat patrol in the Pacific Ocean are equipped with them. But in future all our active strategic submarines - Delfin and Kalmar (Delta III and Delta IV) - will be armed with these missiles,” he said.

Construction of a new aircraft carrier will begin before 2020, Vysotsky said.

“Actual construction of the ship will begin before 2020 and will be completed after 2020. The design of the new carrier complex will be determined in the course of two years, by 2014,” he said.

The Admiral Kuznetsov is currently the Russian Navy’s only active aircraft carrier.

Vysotsky confirmed that the Bulava ballistic missile and the strategic nuclear submarine Yury Dolgoruky would enter service simultaneously this year.


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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Nick_S » 09 Feb 2012 15:37

New colour scheme for the mighty ducks:

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... 71692.html

Image

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Snehashis » 10 Feb 2012 22:45

The Russian Navy will not take the "Lada"



The Russian Navy rejects the newest submarines "Lada". This was told RIA Novosti in an exclusive interview with the Commander of the Fleet Vladimir Vysotsky . Multi-year saga of a prototype non-nuclear submarines near maritime zones coming to an end: instead of buying a fleet of very different submarines, until recently, were being built for export.

In its current form is not needed

We are talking about the project 677 "Lada", which is radically improving our fleet familiar diesel-electric submarines of Project 877 "Halibut". Parent Project 677 submarine ("St. Petersburg") was constructed and commissioned to the Navy in 2010, but has not yet entered service. And that, judging by the reaction of the military, there are good reasons.

"There is a towing operation of the submarine" Saint Petersburg ", which stated specifications are not shown. Reason is simple ... The main flaw - it's main power plant," - said the Russian Navy Commander Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky, adding : "In its present form "Lada" Navy Russia does not want. "

On the refusal of the fleet of submarines of Project 677 press wrote at the end of 2011, and the military themselves belonged to that ship very cautious - they did not like it (and judging by the words of the Commander in Chief, not satisfied until now) the technical readiness of the boat.

Underwater stand the test of nerves

"St. Petersburg" very unlucky. Incorporated in 1997, this boat was built a long and painful. On the water it pushed only in 2004, but did not pass the Navy worked. Navy simply did not want to assume that this boat was going.

It was planned that the "St. Petersburg" will be the first so-called "non-nuclear," the Russian submarine fleet. "Non-nuclear" submarines in Russia called submarines with air independent power plants combined, to distinguish it from the classic "diesel-electric" in need of air for diesel engines, and the water moving on the batteries.

But in the end create a setup time and failed. "St. Petersburg" and without it has become something of a test bed for testing all sorts of innovations (in a number of data, the percentage of fundamentally new technology in it up to 70%). The boat was tortured childhood illnesses.

For years, does not solve problems with the main power unit (GEU). Implemented in the head "Lada" scheme with full elektrodvizheniem through the installation of all-mode propulsion motor, Petersburg shipbuilders until the end and failed to make the installation work at full planned capacity due to reliability.

Extremely ill-conceived ergonomics and an inconvenient layout of equipment called GEMs just fountains of love from the crew and participated in the commissioning engineers - had to address the persistent failure to openly heroic terms.

Over the years, not being finalized and "Lear" - sonar system (SJC) boat. For more nervous in the situation has made and what is not fully developed sonar "traditional" contractors: Moscow by "Wave" and not the usual SRI "Oceanpribor." Against the backdrop of a prolonged failure to bring the basic system is aroused suspicion in the "cuts" of allocated funds. However, according to recent reports, the problem seems to be in the SAC largely solved.

As a result, in the spring of 2010 the boat is literally pushed out to the fleet, but the Navy agreed to transfer only in the towing operation. There, she seems to have stuck, and for a long time. Work on fine-tuning the boat going, but the military are losing patience and are willing to consider "Saint Petersburg" as a towing rig for running all kinds of new solutions, but not as a warship.

Advanced technology gap?

According to Commander Vladimir Vysotsky, one of the buildings of 677-year project will still be built with airindependent power plant. Rather, we are talking about the second case, because it is difficult to imagine that the Navy in the present circumstances can afford to just two "preliminary" stand, and only then, the third in a row - the boat with the anaerobic engine.

Commander in Chief is not made clear what specific version of the powerplant airindependent question. But for a number of indirect data in the last couple of years, Russia has been making a lot of effort to get the German technology of electrochemical generators (ECG). This technology, in particular, used in the propulsion of German submarines of Project 212.

However, currently more promising is a completely different technology - based on the so-called "Stirling engine". Built on this principle, in particular, the Swedish non-nuclear submarine Gotland type and Japanese type "Soryu", and that these technologies have shown great interest in the German shipbuilders. There is an active non-nuclear submarine design based on the "Stirling engine", in particular, and in China.


The question of whether Russia will not get to the mid-2010s technology had already dropped the developed countries, have yet to comprehend. On the other hand, now in the fleet yet and such. There remain only the standard exhaust "diesel".

The most important industries for us to export

Delays in the development of new technology once again returned to the military to accept and successfully tested both in military shipbuilding and in other areas. We are talking about buying a slightly modified version of the export of military products.

Navy has already ordered the project 1135.7 frigate, which are finalized minimalnuo frigates 1135.6 (Talwar), which were built or under construction in Russia for the Indian Navy. Air Force took the multi-purpose fighter Su-30M2 (export version of Su-30MK2 produced "Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Production Association" holding company "Dry"), plan to take the Su-30cm (another version of the export fighter - the Su-30MKI from the Corporation "Irkut" .)

Stories when the export machinery was bought not directly, but work on its creation allowed to bring to mind the interior designs are also well known. So in the anti-aircraft defense appeared missile-gun system near zone "Armour-C1", which originally had been crafted to the requirements of the United Arab Emirates. And now, according to the military, all anti-aircraft missile system S-300P family in Russia modernized under the program "Favorite" - these works were originally on the export patterns of S-300PMU-2.

That is the case with "diesel" decided to take what is already there: Boat platform 636. This is the export version of the Soviet submarines of Project 877 "Halibut". After 1991, the 636 th project bought China, Algeria and Vietnam, in addition to the project 877E/EKM, boats which also went to Poland, Romania, India, China and Iran.

In 2010-2011, the fleet of boats ordered the construction of the project finalized by 636.3 , three of them planned to be in 2014, one in 2015, two more in 2016, but only until 2020, the Navy wants to get 8-10 new "diesel" .

So far, shipbuilders create and bring to mind a new technology and how it will still be in demand in the world, even after five years - a question. A "vacancy" in the battle of the fleet should be closed now, and nothing better success on the international market global brand Kilo-class (as designated by NATO Soviet submarine project 877 and 636) in the hands of the domestic shipbuilding industry is not. So why invent the wheel?


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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 10 Feb 2012 23:19

New colour scheme for the mighty ducks:


........................ left over teal from the Soviet era!

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby negi » 11 Feb 2012 06:13

^ It's a part of their flag color too.

NRao
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 11 Feb 2012 06:42

Not that blue? Is it?

BTW, IN should consider this (platipus) plane. It is supposed to have a proper lav and long time back had a galley too!!!

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 11 Feb 2012 10:59

I agree. What a beaut!

Here's some rib-tickling news.taking a leaf out of the Indo-Russian relationship,the new clarion call from the land of OZ is that they 'lease" US nuclear subs for the future! The OZ sub arm is finding it almost impossible to keep even one Collins class diesel sub operational,have such a major shortage of crews for the same,to expect them to lease out and operate a USN nuclear sub with all its sophistication is going to be the equivalent for the OZ navy,with its inglorious track record of climbing Mt.Everest,launching a manned mission into space and exploring the Mariana trench ,all at the same time!

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/na ... 51846.aspx

Australia urged to lease subs

DAVID ELLERY, DEFENCE REPORTER

11 Feb, 2012

Australia would save billions of dollars if it leased used US nuclear submarines to replace the troubled Collins-class fleet, an American naval expert says.
''If you want to utilise the submarine force for long-range missions the nuclear submarine is the queen of the seas,'' Sam Tangredi, a former US naval captain turned academic and strategic analyst, told The Canberra Times.

Dr Tangredi, who was in Canberra to speak at an anti-submarine warfare forum at the Australian Defence College, said taking over some of the submarines due to be retired early by the US Navy as part of its defence cuts was almost certainly the cheapest way to build an interim Australian underwater capability.

Rear Admiral Rowan Moffitt told last week's naval conference in Sydney an Australian-designed and built replacement for the Collins-class boats was unlikely to be in service before 2035. Independent analysts have said it would cost billions of dollars to refit the existing six boats to keep them operational for that long.

Dr Tangredi said if cost effectiveness was considered the major criteria then the second hand nuclear option was worth a look. ''Given the [Collins replacement] program is so long range, as an outsider I would advise the Australian government to look at the nuclear option,'' he said.

''My argument would be that in the long run - if you take the view Australia should not develop its own submarine production facility because it is too expensive to develop the infrastructure - you might as well wait until you can rent US SSNs [nuclear attack submarines] that still have their life in them but are no longer utilised.''

US nuclear submarines regularly use Australian ports and the defence posture review has suggested upgrading the submarine wharf at HMAS Stirling in Western Australia to make it better able to take American SSNs.

Defence Minister Stephen Smith recently reaffirmed nuclear submarines were off the agenda as far as replacing the Collins was concerned.

Singha
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 Feb 2012 13:51

makes sense to me - the USN will give them away cheap, they can use facilities in pearl for any nuclear plant related stuff while doing the rest in Australia, training will be easy, and the 688I boats are still among the best....much more utility than collins subs tied up dockside methinks.

I am unable to figure out why with a booming economy due to resources demand and a tiny population, Aus is unable to properly fund and kit up its defence forces...? their economy is allegedly doing far better than US/EU.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Badar » 11 Feb 2012 14:25

Singha wrote:makes sense to me - the USN will give them away cheap, they can use facilities in pearl for any nuclear plant related stuff while doing the rest in Australia, training will be easy, and the 688I boats are still among the best....much more utility than collins subs tied up dockside methinks.

It's in US interests too in a way. With a captive foreign policy the USN supplied boats in convict navy will be doing pretty much what they would do in USN service anyway.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 11 Feb 2012 15:27

There is a strong anti-nuclear lobby in Australia that throws tantrum with any thing that has word Nuclear in it be it electricity or submarine.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 Feb 2012 18:41

but I am sure these lobbies will fall in line when the economic benefits are pointed out - like saving N billion AUS$ over Y years for civilian expenditure (the usual roads, schools thing) due to leasing refurbished subs than the pie in sky sydneygenous 2035 SSK proposals?

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 12 Feb 2012 14:39


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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 13 Feb 2012 08:51

More details emerging on the US's desire to "access" in greater measure Phillipine bases,establishments for the USN ,while technically not labelling these facilities as US "bases",which are a hot potato to grant politically-wise.

http://www.laredosun.us/notas.asp?id=20182
Exclusive: U.S. military seeks more access in Philippines

The United States is seeking more access toPhilippines ports and airfields to re-fuel and service its warships and planes, diplomatic and military sources said on Thursday
Saturday, February 11, 2012
By: Manuel Mogato | Reuters

MANILA (Reuters) - The United States is seeking more access to Philippines ports and airfields to re-fuel and service its warships and planes, diplomatic and military sources said on Thursday, expanding its presence at a time of tension with China in the South China Sea .

But it is not trying to reopen military bases there.

Washington's growing cooperation in the Philippines, a U.S. ally which voted to remove huge American naval and air bases 20 years ago, follows the U.S. announcement last year of plans to set up a Marine base in northern Australia and possibly station warships in Singapore.

It also coincides with diplomatic and military friction in the South China Sea and its oil-rich Spratly Islands, which are subject to disputed claims by China, the Philippines and other Southeast Asian nations.

Last month, senior Philippine defense and foreign affairs officials met their U.S. counterparts in Washington to discuss ways to increase the number and frequency of joint exercises, training, ship and aircraft visits and other activities.

"It's access, not bases," a foreign affairs department official familiar with the strategic dialogue told Reuters.

"Our talks focus on strengthening cooperation on military and non-military activities, such as disaster response and humanitarian assistance, counter-terrorism, non-proliferation.

There were no discussions about new U.S. bases," he said.

These activities would allow the U.S. military more access in the Philippines, stretching its presence beyond local military facilities and training grounds into central Cebu province or to Batanes island near the northern borders with Taiwan.

U.S. ships and aircraft are seeking access for re-supply, re-fueling and repairs, not just for goodwill visits, exercises and training activities, the diplomat said.

The Philippines was ruled by the United States for nearly five decades between the departure of the Spanish and the Japanese occupation during the Second World War, and is now one of its foremost allies in Asia, despite expelling the U.S.

from its former military bases at Clark and Subic Bay in 1992.

Since 1987, the Philippine constitution has explicitly banned a permanent foreign military presence . But Washington maintains close military ties under a 1951 defense treaty, and its special forces have been helping the Philippine military combat Islamic militants in the south of the country since 2002.

A Filipino diplomat said Washington's expanding presence is allowed under the under a 1998 Visiting Forces Agreement and a 2002 Mutual Logistics Support Agreement.

The issue is likely to be raised during a visit to Manila from Friday by U.S. Assistant Secretary Andrew Shapiro, senior advisor on political-military affairs to Secretary Hillary Clinton.

U.S. MILITARY "HARDWARE"

Apart from training and exercises, the two countries discussed U.S. military assistance, including equipment and data to enhance "domain awareness" in the South China Sea.

A second Hamilton-class cutter will be transferred to the Philippine Navy this year and a possible third second-hand cutter was also discussed, the diplomat added.

"On our side, we're also trying to explore ways on how to access newer U.S. military hardware through innovative financial schemes other than the usual channels," the foreign affairs official said.

Military sources said Manila was studying leasing newer offshore patrol vessels, larger sealift and support vessels and lead-in fighter trainer aircraft.

Last month, Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin told reporters Manila is also considering a proposal from the United States Pacific Command to deploy P3C-Orion spy planes in the country to help monitor movements and activities in the South China Sea.

The disputed ownership of oil-rich reefs and islands in the South China Sea, through which $5 trillion in trade sails annually, is one of the biggest security threats in Asia.

Beijing says it has historical sovereignty over the South China Sea, superseding claims of other countries.

Tension over the region and the U.S. plans to expand its military operations in the Asia-Pacific, long an issue with China, could well come up in talks when China's leader-in-waiting Xi Jingping visits Washington next week.

China has expressed misgivings about the Obama administration's shift to raise its security role in the region at a time when Beijing is expanding its own military reach.

The Hawaii-based Pacific Command's proposal to deploy spy planes came two months after State and Pentagon officials offered to share surveillance data on the South China Sea during talks with Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario in June 2011.

Last year, Del Rosario repeatedly protested against China's activities and intrusions into Philippine maritime territories, including an attempt to ram a survey ship exploring oil and gas in the South China Sea.

Manila had accused China's ships of crossing into its maritime borders nearly a dozen times in 2011.

The Philippines has welcomed plans by the United States to shift more attention in the Asia and Pacific region and senior officials said an expanded U.S.

military presence could enhance peace and stability.

"For us, it would boost our deterrent capability to stop intrusions into our territories," said the diplomat.

(Editing by Jason Szep and Jonathan Thatcher)



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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 15 Feb 2012 21:33

Russia, Vietnam to Jointly Manufacture Anti-Ship Missiles

Russia and Vietnam are planning to start in 2012 joint production of a modified anti-ship missile, head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation Mikhail Dmitriyev said on Wednesday.

“We are planning to build facilities in Vietnam for the production of a version of the Russian Uran [SS-N-25 Switchblade] missile in a project that is similar to joint Russian-Indian production of the BrahMos missile,” Dmitriyev said.

The Uran subsonic anti-ship missile can be launched from helicopters, surface ships and coastal defense batteries. It has a range of up to 250 kilometers (135 nautical miles) and carries a 145-kilogram high explosive warhead.

Russian-Indian joint venture BrahMos Aerospace Ltd, set up in 1998, manufactures supersonic cruise missiles based on the Russian-designed NPO Mashinostroyenie 3M55 Yakhont (SS-N-26).

Sea- and ground-launched versions have been successfully tested and put into service with the Indian Army and Navy.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 18 Feb 2012 10:33

Does it mean that Brahmos is "off" sales to the Viets?

More on SoKO's need for extra subs to counter the North and China and of ""3000t" size.

http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Det ... 0216000901

Xcpt:
The South Korean military will establish a new submarine command within the Navy by 2015 as part of its efforts to strengthen its underwater operational capabilities.

In a related development, the navies of South Korea and the U.S. will be holding a five-day joint anti-submarine drill from Feb. 20 in the West Sea.

The exercise is aimed at increasing the allies’ ability to counter North Korean submarines and to familiarize the troops with a variety of drills.

According to reports, the military has allocated 639 million won ($565,000) of its 2012 budget for the plans to establish a submarine command.

Although the Ministry of National Defense had not highlighted the submarine command plan in announcing its budget for the year, the budget allocation was revealed by the National Assembly’s National Defense Committee.

“The fund was included in the budget to cover expenses including base operations with the aim of establishment in 2015,” an anonymous National Assembly official was quoted as saying by local media.

“North Korea has about 70 submarines while our military has only about 10. There is an urgent need for establishing a submarine command as submarines are categorized as strategic weaponry due to their ability to infiltrate without being noticed.”

In addition to the plan for the submarine command, the Navy is currently working on the technologies required to build 3,000-ton submarines, and is waiting for a number of 1,800-ton submarines to be commissioned into its fleet.

The government had first aimed to establish a submarine command by 2012, but the plan was put on hold under the current administration.

In addition, exclusion of the submarine command from the Ministry Defense’s defense reform measures announced last year had led to speculations that related plans had been dropped altogether.

By Choi He-suk (cheesuk@heraldm.com)


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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 18 Feb 2012 11:11

Philip wrote:Does it mean that Brahmos is "off" sales to the Viets?


Viets have Bastion batteries which is a land based derivative of Yakohant , so they do use Brahmos cousin.


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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 23 Feb 2012 08:45

Israel's new German built Dolphin class "super-sub",with two more to arrive later on.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 89,00.html

Taiwan to arm its subs with US missiles.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/asia/28 ... les-report

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 27 Feb 2012 23:16

Costa Allegra cruise ship adrift off the Seychelles after fire! Some awful vastu at Costa's office I imagine.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/fe ... hip-adrift
Costa Allegra cruise ship adrift in Indian Ocean after fire.

Costa Cruises, which also owns the Costa Concordia, says all 1,000 people on board are safe as tugs head to ship 200 miles off Seychelles

Tom Kington in Rome

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 28 Feb 2012 03:17

Argentina turns away UK cruise ships

The tussle for the Falklnds/Malvinas hots up.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/fe ... -falklands

Two liners prevented from docking at Ushuaia on country's southern tip as tensions build over future of Falkland Islands


Argentina turns away UK cruise ships

Two liners prevented from docking at Ushuaia on country's southern tip as tensions build over future of Falkland Islands
James Meikle and Uki Goni in Buenos Aires
guardian.co.uk, Monday 27 February 2012
Two British cruise liners have been turned away from the Argentine coast at Ushuaia. Photograph: Getty Images

Two British cruise liners were turned away from an Argentine port as tensions mounted over the future of the Falkland Islands.

The P&O Cruises' ship Adonia and the Princess Cruises' vessel Star Princess were not allowed to dock at Ushuaia on the southern tip of Argentina.

The incidents came as Britain's formal announcement of a huge marine protection area around South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands threatened to further ratchet up ill-feeling in Buenos Aires.

Arturo Puricelli, the Argentine defence minster, said in December when the plans first became clear that it was "nothing more and nothing less than an attempt under the cover of protecting the environment to usurp a larger area".

His government also regards the deployment of Prince William to the Falklands with the 30th anniversary of the war approaching as provocative.

The ships were turned away by application of a Tierra del Fuego law passed six months ago which bans the docking of British military ships or ships involved in "the exploration or exploitation of natural resources" in the South Atlantic area.

Tierra de Fuego governor Fabiana Rios is said to have applied a wide interpretation of the new law at the request of 1982 war veterans.

"If we mean to cause some damage to the British, we have actually damaged all those who would have worked with that ship today," complained Marcelo Lieti, head of the Ushuaia Tourism Chamber.

Both cruise ships called at the Falklands on Saturday. A P&O Cruises spokesperson said the Adonia, on an 87-day trip which started in Southampton on 13 January, was now on its way to Punta Arenas, Chile. Its 710 British pasengers would get a refund on shore excursions planned for Ushuaia.

Princess Cruises said the Star Princess was on a 14-day South American cruise which started in Rio de Janeiro on February 18. The ship is on an 14-night cruise which departed Rio de Janeiro on February 18, 2012.

Argenina's president Cristina Kirchner is giving a major address later on Monday to mark the 200th anniversary of the Argentine flag. She was expected to make a major pronouncement on "the Malvinas" last week but it was postponed because of a serious train crash in Buenos Aires.

The new marine protection area covers more than a million square kilometres (four times the land area of the UK) around disputed overseas territories. The Foreign Office says it would "further protect the incredibly rich biodiversity of the islands, which has some of the most important and productive fish spawning grounds in the Southern Ocean."

It added: "The area is also home to seven species of globally threatened seabirds, including the wandering albatross, and so is of great international importance."

Foreign office minister Henry Bellingham said: "The declaration of a marine protected area around South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands clearly demonstrates the UK's effective environmental stewardship of this unique and remote part of the world.

"I am delighted that the UK has been able to demonstrate further evidence of our ongoing commitment to marine conservation and protection of the globally important biodiversity of our overseas territories."

South Georgia's wildlife recently featured in the BBC's Frozen Planet. Presenter David Attenborough said: "I am delighted to hear of the decision to create one of the world's largest marine reserves, which will help protect the unique and precious wildlife of South Georgia and Antarctica. This is extremely timely given the dramatic change that the polar regions are currently undergoing."

An RSPB spokesman said the waters around South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands "teem with life", adding: "Thankfully, this wealth has long been recognised by the UK and the islands' governments who have implemented forward thinking ways of protecting this richness.


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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 28 Feb 2012 17:04



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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 29 Feb 2012 15:09

Russia Signs Contract for Navy MiG-29K Fighter

"Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov and MiG General Director Sergei Korotkov have signed the contract for the delivery of MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB carrier-based fighters," MiG said in a statement.

MiG wil deliver the aircraft from 2013-2015. The aircraft will operate from Russia's single serving carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov, with the Northern Fleet based in Murmansk. The value of the deal has not been disclosed.

"The signature of this contract for delivery of these fighters is a real step in fulfilling our program for rearming the forces. The Naval Air Forces will get a modern combat aircraft as good as any in the world," Serdyukov was quoted as saying by his press service.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 29 Feb 2012 16:17

The rail gun development is going to be the next reveloutionary development that will change naval warfare.There is no need of any explosive charge,just the kinetic energy of the projectile to destroy a warship.One expects the US to field the gun before the end of the decade.Along with naval UCAVs like the X-47B,which will change the face of carrier aviatin and carriers,and even UUVs,these developments will revolutinise naval warfare by the next decade.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Badar » 29 Feb 2012 16:41

Philip wrote:The rail gun development is going to be the next reveloutionary development that will change naval warfare.There is no need of any explosive charge,just the kinetic energy of the projectile to destroy a warship.One expects the US to field the gun before the end of the decade.Along with naval UCAVs like the X-47B,which will change the face of carrier aviatin and carriers,and even UUVs,these developments will revolutinise naval warfare by the next decade.

The rail gun is fast - but is it accurate? Can it reliably hit a moving ship out to 50 miles? Can you put a guidance kit on the shell as in conventional naval artillery?

This is still blue skies stuff - there is no substitute to AShM for a long long time.

PS: I wonder whatever happened to the KALI beam weapon?

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 03 Mar 2012 04:59

The rail gun along with EMP weapons are going to be in the forefront of new weapon systems for decade 2 of the 21st century.
Meanwhile,there is a resurgence in Russian naval shipbuilding,though with different tasks in mind,leaving behind the CWar doctrines of yore,as this snippet from a review of the same from a recent article.An interesting point is that the RuN is also building 3 Talwar class frigates for itself,after having seen their excellent capability in IN service.

http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedin ... dium=email

Russia’s streamlined shipbuilding capacity is beginning to show progress in the construction of several types of warships. The most publicized project is the development of the new Borey-class nuclear-powered ballistic-missile submarine (SSBN), planned to initiate eight hulls by 2017. The class leader, the Yuri Dolgorukiy, was commissioned in 2009 in St. Petersburg, following 25 years of sporadic construction, but follow-on building is adhering closely to original schedule. This class will replace the obsolescent Delta III and IV classes of SSBNs as the navy’s contribution to Russia’s strategic nuclear deterrent. The Yasen class of up to ten nuclear-powered guided-missile submarines (SSGNs) is led by the Severodvinsk, which was commissioned in 2010 after a 16-year building process. The Kazan, the second of the class, is scheduled for commissioning in 2013, only four years after construction began. Accelerated construction times for both classes of submarines are attributed to the “resumption of regular funding of defense contracts and newly established industrial cooperation.”11

Surface-combatant construction is following the same trend. The 2007 launching of the Steregushchiy, a 2,100-ton corvette touted for her low-observable design along with a high degree of automation and combat-systems integration, signaled Russia’s return to developing its own surface-warfare fleet. While the lead ship took more than six years to deliver, her successors, the Soobrazitelniy (recently commissioned), Boiky, and Stoiky, are expected to follow in considerably less time. The plan is for 10–20 ships of this class, intended for coastal patrol and escort duties. Further, Russia has built frigates for the Indian Navy and is now beginning to produce three identical Project 11356 frigates for itself, scheduled to be homeported in the Black Sea. More formidably, Russian shipyards have just commissioned the first Admiral Gorshkov–class frigate. This 4,000-ton warship is equipped for modern antisubmarine and antisurface warfare as well as escort duties.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Kailash » 05 Mar 2012 19:18

(Russian) Northern Fleet Gets Modernized Anti-Submarine Plane

The Russian Navy's Northern Fleet has accepted into service a modernized Ilyushin Il-38N anti-submarine warfare aircraft, which will also carry out electronic intelligence (ELINT) duties, the Northern Fleet's press spokesman Captain Vadim Serga said on Monday.
"A modernized Il-38N was accepted into service at a Northern Fleet air base" he said. "It has a wider range of combat capabilities. These aircraft can be used for mapping the magnetic and gravitational fields of the Northern Ice sea, and also for conducting scientific oceanographic research and underwater and air reconnaissance," he added.


Yeah we trust that its just oceanographic research :twisted:

Russian Navy buying Icelandic Gavia Autonomous Underwater Vehicle

I would say arctic is heating us pretty fast!

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 07 Mar 2012 09:35

US "blown away" by HMS Astute's capabilities.The RN is touting the Astute as the best attack sub anywhere and if the USN has indeed been so impressed,then it has a case to claim for.It has earlier claimed that sittting in its home port in the UK,its sonar could detect a cruise liner off the NY coast!

http://www.defencemanagement.com/news_s ... p?id=19073

US 'taken aback' by HMS Astute
06 March 2012

Xcpt:
The United States Navy was 'blown away' by the performance of HMS Astute during sea trials in the Atlantic recently, the ship's commanding officer has said.

Commander Ian Breckenridge, 45, led HMS Astute through four-and-a-half months of sea trials off the US east coast and said the submarine had demonstrated "tremendous capability".

"We met and surpassed every expectation. She is just better than any other submarine I have ever been on," he said.

During the trials, Astute took part in simulated battles with American Virginia Class submarine USS New Mexico, deep dived, and fired her Tomahawk missiles and Spearfish torpedoes. HMS Astute sailed 16,400 miles during the deployment.

The success comes after a series of operational setbacks during the submarine's sea trials to date, with Astute becoming grounded on a shingle bank in late 2010 and later damaged by a tug sent to recover her. The attack submarine also suffered a failure of support systems in February 2011.

"Astute is still on trial and she is first of class, which always brings its own problems, but we are beginning to look beyond those problems and see the promise," said Commander Breckenridge, who previously served on HMS Superb and HMS Tireless.

"We fired off four Tomahawks, aimed at a corner of Eglin Air Force Base to test for accuracy, and we fired six Spearfish torpedoes, including the first salvo firing by a British submarine for 15 years.

"Our sonar is fantastic and I have never before experienced holding a submarine at the range we were holding USS New Mexico. The Americans were utterly taken aback, blown away with what they were seeing."

Second in class HMS Ambush was launched in 2011 and is set to begin sea trials later this year. The UK is to receive seven Astute class submarines overall.


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