International Naval News & Discussion

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 05 Mar 2014 23:32

Demonstration Video of Victor 3 SSN Surfacing


wig
BRFite
Posts: 1791
Joined: 09 Feb 2009 16:58

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby wig » 10 Mar 2014 02:42

China’s ballistic missile system for targeting aircraft carriers

China has established a novel system for using land-based ballistic missiles to deter America's powerful nuclear-powered aircraft carriers from coming anywhere near its coast, says a team of Indian analysts.

A constellation of satellites and at least one over-the-horizon radar give its Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile (ASBM) system the capability to work out the position of U.S. aircraft carriers at sea, according to assessments published by researchers at the National Institute of Advanced Studies in Bangalore.

Land-based ballistic missiles, carrying manoeuvrable warheads with conventional munitions, could then, if needed, target the aircraft carriers at a distance of about 2,000 km

and further excerpts as to how the system works
China's constellation of Yaogan military satellites includes those for electronic intelligence (ELINT) gathering that detect radio signals and other electronic emissions from an aircraft carrier and its associated warships. China currently has three clusters of ELINT satellites that provide global surveillance.

In each cluster, there are three satellites that maintain a triangular formation in orbit and can locate ships producing radio signals with an accuracy of 25 km to 100 km, according to him.

The Yaogan constellation also includes radar satellites as well as satellites with optical sensors that can establish the position of the aircraft carriers with much greater accuracy.

In the course of a single day, the current Yaogan constellation can provide about 16 targeting opportunities for ballistic missile launches when the uncertainity in an aircraft carrier's position will be less than 10 km.

“These preliminary results suggest that China has in place a space-based surveillance system that can identify, locate and track an aircraft carrier in the Pacific Ocean,” according to a recent report prepared by the analysts.

Although the land-based ballistic missiles can target aircraft carriers using just the Yaogon constellation, the number of targeting opportunities become fewer if cloud cover obscures the view of satellites with optical sensors, observed Prof. Chandrashekar.

By incorporating an over-the-horizon radar that can continually track aircraft carriers up to a distance of about 3,000 km, the Chinese gain the flexibility to launch the ballistic missiles whenever they choose, he pointed out.

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/scienc ... 753737.ece

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 15 Mar 2014 09:31

Taking a dip in the cold water from Delta SSBN


Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 19 Mar 2014 14:10

Photo Report: Inside Russian SSBN Borei Class Yuri Dolgoruki

http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/272868.html

Video : http://youtu.be/P8usYSqgoVI

TSJones
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3022
Joined: 14 Oct 1999 11:31

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby TSJones » 20 Mar 2014 23:29

Nice article about the Navy's P-8.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missin ... ing-n57411

Interesting to note that there have only been 13 P-8's delivered so far and India has already got one. The US has over a hundred on order.

A little bit different than the US's F-35 program and India's jet fighter acquistion plans, eh?

I don't think the Boeing 737 is ever going away. It's just a real nice airplane for the money.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 23 Mar 2014 09:00

Russian Prized possession Ukraine Submarine Foxtrot :lol:

http://f-lite.ru/lfp/s004.radikal.ru/i2 ... c2.jpg/htm

Gerard
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7808
Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Gerard » 23 Mar 2014 19:10

TSJones wrote:Interesting to note that there have only been 13 P-8's delivered so far and India has already got one. The US has over a hundred on order.


13 to the US (that order) probably.
India has three P-8Is so far.

TSJones
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3022
Joined: 14 Oct 1999 11:31

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby TSJones » 23 Mar 2014 21:14

Gerard wrote:
TSJones wrote:Interesting to note that there have only been 13 P-8's delivered so far and India has already got one. The US has over a hundred on order.


13 to the US (that order) probably.
India has three P-8Is so far.


how many does India have on order?

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16508
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 23 Mar 2014 21:32

Jan, 2009 - 8 (3 delivered)
Oct, 2010 - 4 more approved
Rumored 12 more will be ordered.

tushar_m

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 23 Mar 2014 22:57

Russian Navy Unveils New Class of Submarines

A prospective series of Russia’s new fifth-generation conventional submarine equipped with an advanced air-independent propulsion system will be designated the Kalina-class, the commander of the country’s navy said Wednesday.

“Russia is currently designing a fifth-generation conventional submarine, dubbed Project Kalina, which will be fitted with an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system,” Adm. Viktor Chirkov said.

“Our industry promises to develop this AIP system by 2017 and build the first boat fitted with such a system by 2018,” Chirkov said.

The admiral earlier said that the new AIP system could be initially tested on the only operational Lada-class diesel-electric submarine in service with the navy, the St. Petersburg, which is undergoing sea trials in the Barents Sea after a series of design changes.

Air-independent power plants offer significant advantages over diesel-electric submarines, which must surface regularly to recharge their batteries, and nuclear submarines, which must continually run noisy pumps to cool their reactors.

Submarines with such systems can stay submerged for weeks at a time and are already in operation with a number of navies around the world. The United States has so far not employed the technology, however, in favor of the longer endurance and range of nuclear submarines.


Project 75I ???

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20435
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 24 Mar 2014 04:39

Sell it to the IN! I'm sure ScAmthony will approve in indecent haste a one rouble vintage Foxtrot (he loves the IN so much)...to end up on another beach as a museum!

The extra large number of P-8Is looks like overkill.It is meant to quick-fix more billions into Uncle Sam's coffers before the snake-oil regime gets its final just desserts.The 8 P-8s,plus 5 IL-38s and remaining 8 Bears are adequate for our needs for the time being.The real priority is subs and ASW helos asap.We urgently need at least 2-3 conventional subs to augment the Kilos.Even if as planned all the remaining Kilos have yet another life extension,their capability will be degraded ,not equivalent to a new boat.The second or even third Akula has to be accelerated especially with the entrance of Chinese N-subs into the IOR.10 years ago,we were laughed at for suggesting such a scenario.It has all come to pass.The clearance for building a new SSN class locally is still "pending",like the Himalayan mountain of files that surround ScAmthony. L&T are quite capable of starting a second line of N-subs in India and should be given the opportunity as the DPSU yards are full of work.
The speed with which the Kilos are being inducted into the Viet navy indicate how e might make an interim buy to shore up fast depleting numbers of conventional subs at very affordable costs. The analysts and retd. admirals are calling for a greater % of N-boats to meet our new international challenges.

Look at what the Koreans are doing.They are also building a large number of German U-boats.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/nationa ... 0315F.html
News Focus) S. Korea strives in naval build-up following Cheonan sinking

2014/03/23
By Kim Eun-jung

PYEONGTAEK, South Korea, March 23 (Yonhap) -- The South Korean Navy has beefed up the combat capabilities of its warships to counter rising threats from North Korea in the wake of a deadly torpedo attack that sank a corvette four years ago, military officials said Sunday.

The 1,200-ton navy ship called the Cheonan exploded and sank in the Yellow Sea on the night of March 26, 2010, killing 46 sailors. A South Korean-led international investigation found that North Korea torpedoed the ship, though Pyongyang denied its involvement.

The deadly incident made South Koreans realize the dangers of North Korean attacks, especially after the North shelled the South Korean border island of Yeonpyeong in November 2010, killing two Marines and two civilians.

The Research Institute for National Security Affairs at Korea National Defense University pointed to a potential North Korean provocation near the western maritime border as one of the three biggest security threats to South Korea this year.

The maritime border, called the Northern Limit Line, is a flash point between the two Koreas where two deadly skirmishes took place -- once in 1999, and again in 2002.

"North Korea may launch an unprovoked attack on the South Korean warship south of the NLL to seek revenge for the naval clashes, making the NLL a hot issue," the institute said in a recent security report.

In response to the escalating risk of North Korean provocations, South Korea has upgraded its defense capacities along the western sea border, deploying more submarines and anti-torpedo weapons as well as an increased number of artillery shells on front-line islands.

"Following the Cheonan incident, the South Korean Navy has deployed the advanced escort vessels and guided-missile high-speed ships and additionally acquired maritime patrol aircraft for improved combat capabilities," R. Adm. Choi Yang-sun, who oversees the Navy's weapons program, told reporters during his visit to the Second Fleet Headquarters in Pyeongtaek, south of Seoul.

In the past years, South Korea has armed its warships and submarines with cruise missiles that have a range of over 1,000 kilometer and additionally deployed 2,300-ton naval escort ships.

About 20 more naval ships will replace the existing fleet of patrol ships in the next 10 years, while 15 guided-missile destroyers with advanced sonar systems capable of detecting submarines have been deployed in the east and western seas.

In response, the North has increased the operations of its submarine fleets and the training of coastal artillery units, conducting amphibious landing operations targeting the South in the past years.

Most recently, North Korea has been building a new high-speed, wave piercing craft called Very Slender Vessel (VSV), which Seoul officials believe is aimed at infiltrating the inter-Korean sea boundary to quickly occupy South Korean border islands in case of war.

The communist state has already deployed about 70 air-cushion vehicles on its west coast and 60 of the amphibious vehicles in the east at its four hovercraft bases.

Pyongyang has also put in place 200-ton new combatant ships with guns of longer ranges, while adding one or two submarine midgets every year to the fleet of 70 submarines.

The need to strengthen naval capabilities has grown even larger in light of China's increasing assertiveness and Japan's military buildup, as they are locked in an ongoing territorial conflict over disputed islands in the East China Sea.

In response to the potential arms race in Northeast Asia, Seoul's defense ministry recently announced plans to expand naval task groups with Aegis destroyers in the next decade.

South Korea currently operates one naval task group with three Aegis-equipped guided missile destroyers. Envisaging the deployment of three more 7,400-ton Aegis destroyers from 2023 to 2027, the defense reform plan for 2014-2030 calls for the reorganization of naval task groups.

Ahead of the fourth anniversary of the sinking of the Cheonan, South Korea's Navy on Wednesday carried out a large-scale drill in waters off the Yellow Sea under a scenario in which a North Korean submarine crosses the maritime border.

The 7,700-ton Aegis destroyer, King Sejong the Great, destroyers and patrol escort ship as well as seven other naval vessels and a Lynx helicopter participated in the exercise.

The naval drill occurred during a time of escalating tensions on the Korean Peninsula as Pyongyang fired off several missiles and rockets from its eastern coast between late February and early March in a show of force against ongoing joint military drills by South Korea and the U.S.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20435
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 25 Mar 2014 19:52

This may have a bearing upon the contest for the 75I acquisition.....when it eventually arrives.

http://seekingalpha.com/news/1641863-di ... e-business
Dispute threatens ThyssenKrupp's submarine business
Mar 24 2014,

A dispute between the Swedish armed forces and ThyssenKrupp (TYEKY, TYEKF) has prompted the country to pull contracts for the next generation of submarines from the world's largest exporter of non-nuclear submarines and threatens one of the company's most profitable operations.
Sweden has signaled that it is considering giving the work to Saab (SAABF), which currently doesn't even build manned submarines.
Swedish officials are said to be upset that their country hasn't exported a new submarine since Swedish submarine maker Kockums was integrated into ThyssenKrupp in 2005, WSJ reports.


Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20435
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 26 Mar 2014 20:02

Decimation of the Ukranian Navy.

http://www.janes.com/article/35861/ukra ... nto-crimea
Ukrainian navy decimated by Russian move into Crimea
Tim Ripley, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
25 March 2014
Officers of the Ukrainian navy Grisha V-class frigate Lutsk raise the Russian naval ensign on 20 March. Source: PA Photos

Ukraine's maritime forces have been dealt a heavy blow by the Russian intervention in Crimea, with 12 of its 17 major warships and much of its naval aviation assets falling under Moscow's control.

In the eight days since the controversial referendum on 16 March that opened the door for Crimea to be absorbed in the Russian Federation, almost every Ukrainian naval base and ship on the peninsula has been seized by Russian forces or local pro-Moscow self defence units.

The scale of the crisis facing the Ukrainian navy is apparent from the fact that around 12,000 of its 15,450 personnel were based in Crimea when Russia intervened on 27 February. Over the past three weeks, the majority of the Ukrainian military personnel on Crimea have defected to the Russian military or resigned from military service, according to announcements by the new pro-Kremlin administration in Crimea. Some independent media reports appear to broadly support Russian claims in this regard.

In a major blow to its pride, the Ukrainian navy's commander, Admiral Serhiy Hayduk, was arrested by Russian forces when the navy headquarters in Sevastapol was seized on 19 March, and was unceremoniously dropped off by Russian troops at the new "border" checkpoint with Ukraine in the north of Crimea. Those of the admiral's sailors who wanted to continue to serve in Kiev's navy had to make their own way off the peninsula in civilian cars or on public transport.

In Sevastopol, the Russians seized intact four major warship, the Grisha V-class frigates Ternopil and Lutsk , the Pauk-class corvette/patrol vessels Khmelnytskyi , and the Bambuk-class command ship Slavutych , as well as Ukraine's only submarine, the Foxtrot-class Zaporizhzhia . Also seized in Sevastopol was the ocean-going tug Korets .

At the same time as Russian forces were boarding Ukrainian vessels in Sevastopol, other special forces units and armed civilians were seizing Ukraine's Naval Base South at Novoozerne, on the north west coast of Crimea. Seven Ukrainian warships, including the Ropucha I-class landing ship, Kostiantyn Olshansky , had been blockaded in the base on Lake Dunuzlov since the start of the crisis after the Russian navy sank the hulk of two warships in the access channel leading to the sea. The Natya-class minesweeper Cherkasy unsuccessfully tried to open a passage by pulling away one of the blocking ships on 21 March although a Russian warship moved to block the escape attempt, according to a video posted on a social media site.

Ukraine's 10th Saski Naval Air Brigade, which controlled all of the country's maritime aviation assets, fared better at evading the Russian occupation, and managed to get a number of its aircraft and helicopters airborne from Novofedorivka airbase to fly to bases in mainland Ukraine on 5 March. This included one Kamov Ka-27PL and three Mil Mi-14PL maritime helicopters, one Beriev Be-12 amphibian and two Antonov An-26 transports, according to film of the escape posted on social media sites. More than a dozen aircraft and helicopters which were undergoing maintenance had to be left behind. The long-term sustainability of the Ukrainian navy's surviving helicopters is uncertain after the pro-Russian administration in Crimea nationalised all state owned enterprises, including the Sevastopol Aviation Enterprise, which had provided long-term maintenance and overhaul of the services helicopters.

The rump of the Ukrainian navy is now concentrated at the service's Naval Base North at Odessa. This force boasts less than half a dozen large surface combatants as well as several small patrol craft. It includes the pride of the navy, the Krivak III-class frigate Hetman Sagaidachny , which was returning from an Indian Ocean counter-piracy mission as the Crimea crisis broke and was able to divert to Odessa. The frigate and its embarked Ka-27 helicopter have since carried out one maritime security patrol, off Ukraine's southern western territorial waters, over a seven day period up to 21 March. According to the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence the ship encountered four Russian ships and two Mil Mi-35 attack helicopters probing the country's territorial waters and airspace but the two sides did not engage each other.

Ukraine's navy now faces an uncertain future. As well as losing the bulk of its ships, helicopters and aircraft, it headquarters building, much of the service's signals intelligence, training, administration, maintenance, and logistics infrastructure has now been lost. This includes the service's main underground ammunition storage site at Inkermann valley, outside Sevastopol. Russian naval patrols have also blockaded the access to the Sea of Azov to the east of Ukraine, cutting off military and civilian access to ports in the east of the country.

On 24 March, the last remaining major unit of the Ukrainian navy on Crimea still holding out - the 750 strong 1st Marine Battalion at Feodesia in the east of the peninsula - was overrun and many of its personnel were arrested. The unit's commanders had been negotiating with the Russians to be allowed to drive off Crimea with all their vehicles, weapons, and equipment so its dispersal will be a significant blow to its morale and unit cohesion.

On 24 March, the Russian authorities claimed to have seized some 189 Ukrainian bases on Crimea, including final sections of the Balbek airbase held by personnel of the 204th Tactical Aviation Brigade; the airbase was overrun by Russian Spetsnaz troops in a dramatic assault two days earlier. The brigade's 39 Mig-29 fighters were seized in the first days of the crisis. The Ukrainian air force's 174th Air Defence Regiment base at Fiolent on the outskirts of Sevastapol was overrun on 21 March and its inventory of S-300 surface-to-air missiles seized. The fate of the last two Ukrainian air defence regiments on Crimea, the 55th regiment at Yevpatoriya and 50th regiment at Feodesia - and their S-300 and Buk-M1 weapon systems - is uncertain.

Some 2,000 Ukrainian air force and air defence personnel were believed to be based in Crimea before the crisis, along with a similar number of paramilitary police and border guard personnel. No major Ukrainian army units were trapped on Crimea, so the service has largely escaped the convulsions that have seriously impacted the country's navy and air force.


Interesting new Indonesian stealth trimaran patrol craft.
Indonesia to acquire stealthy missile patrol craft
Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore
http://www.janes.com/article/35746/indo ... trol-craft

TSJones
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3022
Joined: 14 Oct 1999 11:31

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby TSJones » 27 Mar 2014 07:19

Russia snatched Ukraine's rust bucket submarine.

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/ed1f0b7c4347

It's 44 years old and barely functional. Russia will have to decommission it.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 27 Mar 2014 07:24

Cheen is building 2 x 095 SSNs Qin class and the 093 Shang class is hence over. it is expected to be quieter and better than Shang class.
it is their 3rd gen of SSN after Han and Shang.

Arunkumar
BRFite
Posts: 643
Joined: 05 Apr 2008 17:29

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Arunkumar » 27 Mar 2014 17:23

>> Russia will have to decommission it.

Russians used a rust bucket to effect a naval blockade in ukraine.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16508
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 27 Mar 2014 19:05


Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20435
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 29 Mar 2014 23:02

Russia is returning the rust bucket Foxtrot to the UN (Ukranian Navy),but the sailors are staying with Russia.
Here is a report on the 4th Kilo sub for Vietnam, launched ,after the order was placed in 2009.Vietnam will get all her 6 Kilos before Indian gets its first Scorpene ordered a decade earlier! These Kilos,which are larger than the Scorpenes, have also cost just $2B,in comparison with our Scorpenes which are going to cost us $3B!

The fourth Russian Varshavyanka-class submarine for delivery to the Vietnamese navy has been launched in a ceremony at the shipyard where it was built, St. Petersburg city officials said Friday.

Vietnam signed a contract in 2009 to buy six of the diesel-electric submarines dubbed “black holes in the ocean” by US navy officials for their near invisibility, in a deal reportedly worth $2 billion. Analysts saw the purchase as a move to counterbalance China’s expanding maritime influence in the region. Two of the submarines have already been delivered to Vietnam, with the third currently undergoing sea trials and another now under construction at St. Petersburga’s Admiralty shipyards.

The Varshavyanka class (Project 636) is an upgrade to the Kilo class, featuring advanced stealth technology, extended combat range and the ability to strike land, surface and underwater targets. The boats, which can be armed with torpedoes, mines, and Kalibr 3M54 cruise missiles, are mainly intended for anti-shipping and anti-submarine missions in the relatively shallow waters of littoral zones. The submarines have a displacement of 3,100 tons, can reach speeds of some 20 knots, dive to 300 meters and are manned by 52 crew members.
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_03_2 ... Navy-4405/

Baldev
BRFite
Posts: 501
Joined: 21 Sep 2009 07:27

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Baldev » 29 Mar 2014 23:39

Philip wrote:Russia is returning the rust bucket Foxtrot to the UN (Ukranian Navy),but the sailors are staying with Russia.
Here is a report on the 4th Kilo sub for Vietnam, launched ,after the order was placed in 2009.Vietnam will get all her 6 Kilos before Indian gets its first Scorpene ordered a decade earlier! These Kilos,which are larger than the Scorpenes, have also cost just $2B,in comparison with our Scorpenes which are going to cost us $3B!
in india normal submarine building takes 10 year that too under foreign supervision that too with many parts come from OEM built.
it was better to buy 10 kilos off the shelf for 3 billion. :idea:

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 31 Mar 2014 17:59

FREMM Frigate Normandie DCNS French Navy


Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 31 Mar 2014 18:06

man that heracles radar has a insane rotation rate..never I seen on a naval ship.

KiranM
BRFite
Posts: 575
Joined: 17 Dec 2006 16:48
Location: Bangalore

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby KiranM » 31 Mar 2014 21:48

Singha wrote:man that heracles radar has a insane rotation rate..never I seen on a naval ship.


The radar seems to not just rotate but also revolve round a pivot? Strange.. May be part of some radar cross section disruption.

PratikDas
BRFite
Posts: 1927
Joined: 06 Feb 2009 07:46
Contact:

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 01 Apr 2014 10:23

Or the ability to emulate a stereoscopic vision not by having two displaced radars but by having the same radar observe every target from two different positions.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 01 Apr 2014 15:18

Indeed the radar has been placed on Stealth cover but looking at the size I wonder if mechanically its more prone to failure

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 01 Apr 2014 16:16

Trials of Corvette Soobrazitelnyy at Baltic


Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 01 Apr 2014 16:24

A Documentary video hosted by Haydn Gwynne, published by BBC in 2013 about Cold War NATO submarines struggle to counter the advancing of Soviet submarines

http://youtu.be/IK7nPMcD-DA

tushar_m

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 02 Apr 2014 10:33

Japan’s new ‘ninja’ submarines are all about stealth

maybe we can get some of these "Soryu class submarines"

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 02 Apr 2014 10:56

tushar_m wrote:Japan’s new ‘ninja’ submarines are all about stealth

maybe we can get some of these "Soryu class submarines"


How does Soryu class noise level compare with say Scropene , Type-214 and Kilo class ....is there any open information on this that compares noise level of various class of subs

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20435
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 03 Apr 2014 19:32

Incredible.An employee wanted to go home so he set fire top a $900M US N-sub which has had to be written off!

http://www.allgov.com/news/unusual-news ... ews=852822
Navy Gives up on $900 Million Nuclear Sub after Employee Set it on Fire So He Could Go Home Early

The USS Miami nuclear submarine survived military campaigns in the Middle East and the Balkans during its three decades of naval service. But it couldn’t overcome the petty sabotage of an American civilian worker who just wanted to go home early.

The Miami was officially taken out of service last week when the U.S. Navy held a decommissioning service to celebrate its 24 years in the fleet.

Built in 1990 at a cost of $900 million, the Los Angeles-class attack sub—armed with anti-ship Harpoon missiles and Tomahawk cruise missiles—saw its most important deployments in 1998, when it participated in the bombings of Iraq (Operation Desert Fox) and Serbia.

In fact, those two missions made the Miami distinct, for it represented the first time since World War II that a U.S. sub fired ordinance during combat operations in two different theaters, according to Rear Admiral Ken Perry, commander of Submarine Group Two in Connecticut, where the sub was based.

The vessel would have continued to be an operational component of Group Two had it not been for Casey James Fury in May 2012.

While docked at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard in Maine to undergo a 20-month overhaul, the Miami became engulfed in flames after Fury—a civilian painter and sandblaster working on board the sub—intentionally set a box of rags on fire. The blaze grew into an inferno that raged on for more than 12 hours before a team of 100 firefighters succeeded in putting it out. The fire damaged the sub’s living quarters, command and control center, and a torpedo room, but didn’t reach the nuclear propulsion components located at the rear of the vessel.

The cause of the fire was at first attributed to a stored vacuum cleaner. A month later, a second smaller fire erupted on the Miami. Suspicion landed on Fury, who denied responsibility but eventually confessed to both crimes after submitting to a polygraph test.

The reason he set both fires, Fury said, was because he wanted to leave work early due to anxiety. In one instance, he said that anxiety was caused by heated text messages with his girlfriend about her relationship with another man.


The Navy intended to repair the Miami and put it back into service. But the original cost estimate of $450 million eventually ballooned to $700 million. Naval commanders then decided it was too costly to salvage.

It will now be towed to the West Coast and, at a cost of $54 million, cut apart for scrap metal at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard in Washington state.

As for Fury, he is now serving a 17-year sentence in federal prison.


tushar_m

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 03 Apr 2014 20:48

Sōryū-class submarine is 4200 tons vs max 2000 tons of Scorpène-class so capabilities must be more on soryu for weapon caring & endurance at sea , but via wiki both are same for the two

Max Depth 500m vs 350m may help soryu to remain hidden more efficiently

Other than that we will have to judge the capability of French MESMA vs Stirling AIP systems for both noise & endurance + structure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C5%8Dry% ... _submarine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorp%C3%A ... _submarine

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20435
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 10 Apr 2014 02:51

http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v7/wn ... id=1029054

10 Upgraded Nuclear Submarines To Be Added To Russian Navy By 2020
MOSCOW, April 9 (Bernama) -- More than 10 multi-role nuclear submarines will be added to the Russian Navy by 2020, Russia's Itar-Tass news agency reported, quoting Navy commander Viktor Chirkov as saying on Tuesday after a visit to the Zvyozdochka ship repair centre in Severodvinsk in Russia's north.

The Navy commander noted that the Zvyozdochka company and its counterpart in the Primorye Territory [b]would modernise more than 10 nuclear submarines of Projects 971 (Akula), 945 (Sierra) and 949 (Oscar)till 2020.[/b]

These nuclear submarines will join Russia's Northern and Pacific Fleets.

Chirkov was chairing a conference, during which company executives presented reports on repair and modernisation plans, a Navy spokesman told Itar-Tass.

According to the spokesman, the modernisation of the first submarine of Project 971 will be completed in 2015-2016 while Project 945 multi-role submarine will be ready in 2017.

The modernisation plans envision the installation of advanced life-support, hydro acoustic, navigation, control and communication systems.

"The service life of these types of submarines will increase two-fold, while better performance characteristics will considerably increase their combat effectiveness," he added.

-- BERNAMA

tushar_m

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 10 Apr 2014 07:59


Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20435
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 10 Apr 2014 17:15

The RMA in naval affairs has begun with the arrival of the rail gun,high powered lasers and the new Zumwalt DDG shortly to be inducted into USN service. The rail gun is a stupendous development.To have a mach 7 projectile fired at you from 100km afar-and believe you me,the true range has not been revealed,it can be massively enhanced by using smaller projectiles as lethal as the current shells. The shells are also infinitely cheaper than missiles,just a few tens of thousands of $$$,not millions and can be stocked in huge qty. aboard in DDG sized ships.A veritable arsenal ship in half the size than earlier envisaged.

Lasers are also to be tried out very shortly in the Persian Gulf,to deal with swarms of Iranian Rev Guards in their fast bumboats,and now the revolutionary design of the Zumwalt.

http://www.onislam.net/english/health-a ... l-age.html
US Navy to Enter a New Technological Age

USS Zumwalt (DDG-1000) is technologically blurring the line between science fiction and fact.
Wednesday, 09 April 2014

By Beth Brogan: Bangor Daily News.com:

The ‘Most capable destroyer in history’ of $4 billion price tag to be christened next Saturday at Bath Iron Works.

The U.S. Navy will enter a new age Saturday when the first DDG 1000, the USS Zumwalt — “the most capable destroyer in history” — is christened at Bath Iron Works.

The $4 billion guided missile destroyer, designed to provide missile and gun support for troops ashore, boasts advanced technology and the ability to accommodate advanced air missiles, rail guns and lasers. That advanced technology has led the new class to be dubbed “stealth” destroyers.

In November 2001, the Navy introduced the Zumwalt-class guided missile destroyer “as a transformation in the traditional design of destroyers that would make surface combatants more versatile, more survivable and more relevant to combat ashore,” defense industry analyst Loren Thompson said Tuesday. “I think the lead ship in the class has pretty much borne out [those] claims.”

The Zumwalt’s “multi-mission” capability — allowing it to engage in surface, littoral (shallow water) and air warfare — will be critical to the Navy in its heightened focus on Pacific, officials said.

“This vessel has so much more fighting potential than past destroyers that it may be the best solution for surface warfare in the Pacific,” said Thompson, of the Lexington Institute, based in Arlington, Va.

New technologies on the ship include a multifunction radar system designed to allow the ship to get closer to land without being detected; two advanced gun systems that fire Long-Range Land Attack Projectiles that can reach up to 63 nautical miles; an integrated undersea/anti-submarine warfare detection system; and a vertical launching system.

Perhaps more importantly, the Zumwalt’s integrated electric power will allow the Navy to add advanced air missiles, radars, rail guns, lasers and other advanced tools that will be important as the combat environment — and potential threats — evolve, Navy spokesman Lt. Robert Myers said.

During a November 2013 tour of the warship, U.S. Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel told BIW workers that the DDG 1000 “represents [an] important part in our Navy’s security. That its first assignment will be in San Diego … represents an important shift of our balance and assets and focus in America’s interest in the Asia-Pacific.”

In 2008, the Navy curtailed the Zumwalt class at three ships — all to be built at BIW, with the DDG 1001 due to join the fleet in 2017 and the DDG 1002 due in 2020 — based on concerns about escalating cost projections. But Thompson, the defense industry analyst, said Tuesday that once the destroyer joins the fleet, it may prove worth the price tag.

Despite its size — 186 meters long, 12 stories tall and weighing 15,760 tons — the DDG 1000 requires a crew of only 130, less than half the size of crews required by the 510-foot-long Arleigh Burke class of destroyers it was supposed to replace.

The Zumwalt class also requires an air detachment of 28 to operate two MH-60R helicopters and a Vertical Take Off and Landing Tactical Unmanned Aerial Vehicle, or drone.

And its guns provide a high rate of accurate fire, at less expense, to support U.S. forces on land, Thompson said.

“Other destroyers could provide support using missiles, but the guns are cheaper and more effective in supporting ground troops,” he said, adding that the Zumwalt “substitutes computer logic and automation for crew so that over the lifetime of the ship, it is less expensive to operate, even though it’s bigger than a legacy destroyer. It’s a paradox of Navy budgeting that sometimes ships costing less, over the long run look more expensive because of the upfront investment.

“I think as the Zumwalt joins the fleet and its advanced features become better appreciated, the whole question of whether the program should have been stopped will be revisited,” he said.

The first of three Zumwalt-class destroyers underway at BIW, the DDG 1000, will carry the name of a chief of naval operations who waged a campaign to fight racism and sexism throughout the fleet.

Adm. Elmo “Bud” Zumwalt Jr., chief of naval operations from 1970 to 1974, is credited with transforming the service into “a kinder, gentler place to serve,” his son, retired U.S. Marine Corps Lt. Col. James Zumwalt, said Tuesday.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 10 Apr 2014 18:24

Given the massive air superiority this vessel will enjoy they could as well have packed the guns into a cheap 250 million dollar ffg hull and produced 12 ships for the cost of one such white whale.

I remain totally unconvinced a 4 billion dollar ship is need to pound the next enemy of democracy.

Its all defence r&d funded to keep science moving...not as a product play.

Brando
BRFite
Posts: 675
Joined: 26 Feb 2008 06:18

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Brando » 10 Apr 2014 18:37

I dont think the Zumwalt is in and of itself remarkable as a platform to justify the high price. It is the revolutionary technologies developed however that are more important down the road. Of course, there is no mention of the kinds of teething and performance issues such a complex machine will have, we've all seen the results of another "science fiction" product in the F22, the Littoral Combat Ship etc and their global impact. I doubt the Arleigh Burke destroyers will face any sudden threats to their service. Also, it will be interesting to see how the USN employs this behemoth in the crowded sea lanes and ports around the world dodging traffic and shallow waters.

As far as India is concerned, our immediate needs remain unaffected by any such "revolutionary" technologies our focus would be more on value/performance in numbers but the trend of the future seems to be clear - smaller crews and more automation.


Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3953
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 10 Apr 2014 21:06

Grand ship and all, but I gotta wonder - very little deck space, do the personnel onboard stay cooped up like in a sub? For that matter, do folks get a chance to smell the sea on less exotic combatants?

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16508
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 10 Apr 2014 21:58

I think when people are working they get no time to smell anything and when they are not they are down below (in any military ship) - cooped up. The Z carries two helos and has a large deck at the back - if that helps.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16508
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 10 Apr 2014 22:50

Navy's future: Electric guns, lasers, water as fuel

The Zumwalt, which was launched last year and is to be christened at Bath Iron Works in Maine, is the Navy's first stealth destroyer. At 610 feet long and 80 feet wide, it's about 100 feet longer and 20 feet wider than ships in the Navy's current fleet of Arleigh Burke class destroyers, but the canopy and the rest of the Zumwalt is built on angles that help make it 50 times harder to spot on radar than an ordinary destroyer.

"It has the radar cross-section of a fishing boat," Chris Johnson, a spokesman for Naval Sea Systems Command, told CNN when the ship was launched last year.

tushar_m

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 11 Apr 2014 09:42



Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bhavin and 38 guests