International Naval News & Discussion

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Philip
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 16 Dec 2009 10:22

Austin,I thought that the MOD had decided -against the advice of the IN,to build all the P-17As at home at Garden Reach and possibly MD too.If that is the case,then like the Talwars and Shivaliks,the S-400,far superior to the Barak-2 which has not arrived as yet,would be a great acquisition.It could ,being a larger missile,be used fot he follow on Delhi class DDgs instead.

Here's some news form Vietnam and the assertion that the Kilo 636s are quiet and easy to maintain,all coming in at a very reasonable cost.

Vietnam says to buy Russian submarines, warplanes
Vietnam will buy submarines and warplanes from its former communist ally Russia, PM Tan Dung told a news conference in Moscow
Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:17
Vietnam will buy submarines and warplanes from its former communist ally Russia, Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung told a news conference in Moscow on Tuesday.
"Vietnam signed contracts for the purchases of submarines and planes from the Russian side," he said without elaborating after Russian arms exporter Rosoboronexport signed an agreement to supply "special material" to the Vietnamese navy.

Interfax news agency quoted unnamed sources as saying Russia will sell Vietnam six diesel-electric submarines of "Project 636" type, more widely known under its NATO codename "Kilo", for a total of around $2 billion.

It said the submarines, known for their low noise and easy maintenance, would be built at a shipyard in St Petersburg which has undertaken to supply one submarine to Vietnam each year. A Russian government spokesman declined to comment.

Interfax quoted another unnamed Russian official as saying the two sides in Moscow had also discussed a deal for delivery of eight Sukhoi Su-30MK2 jet fighters to Vietnam.

The official told Interfax that Vietnam could buy a further 12 warplanes of this type, worth a total of some $600 million.

Vietnam is buying the weaponry at a time when disputes over sovereignty in the South China Sea are increasing. Vietnam said it views the disputes with concern.

Vietnam, China and other countries have longstanding competing claims of sovereignty over parts of the South China Sea, which Vietnam calls the East Sea, including the potentially oil and gas-rich Spratly and Paracel island chains.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 18 Dec 2009 19:51

More on the good news of Vietnam buying Kilos to counter China.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... r_o-SG7-HA

Vietnam aims to counter China with sub deal: analysts
By Ian Timberlake (AFP) – 1 day ago

HANOI — Vietnam's major arms deal with Russia, reported to involve the purchase of six submarines, aims to bolster claims against China over potentially resource-rich islands in the South China Sea, analysts say.

While much of Vietnam's military hardware is antiquated, it has decided to devote substantial resources to developing an underwater fleet as concerns mount over tensions with its giant neighbour over the Paracel and Spratly archipelagos, they say.

"I think their primary rationale is to counteract the military build-up that the Chinese have had in the South China Sea," said Richard Bitzinger, a regional defence analyst with the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore.

Vietnam and Russia signed the long-planned deal on Tuesday during a visit by Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung to Moscow.

Details were not released but Russia's Interfax news agency reported that Vietnam had agreed to buy six Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines for about two billion dollars.

Vietnam's move is not surprising "given the concerns they have about the maritime environment, particularly in the South China Sea," said Peter Abigail, director of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.

In the latest incident, Vietnam on Tuesday delivered a diplomatic note to the Chinese embassy in Hanoi demanding China return two fishing boats and equipment seized from Vietnamese fishermen in waters around the Paracels.

Vietnam has previously reported similar cases, and fishermen earlier this year said they were seeing an increasing number of armed Chinese patrol ships in disputed waters.

Taiwan also claims the Paracels -- which China occupies -- while the Spratlys are claimed in full or part by China and Vietnam as well as the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

The sovereignty row has gone on for years. In 1988 Vietnam and China fought a brief naval battle near one of the Spratly reefs. More than 50 Vietnamese sailors died.

Two years ago a Chinese naval vessel fired at a Vietnamese fishing boat near the Spratlys, killing one sailor, reports said.

The archipelagos are considered strategic outposts with potentially vast oil and gas reserves, and rich fishing grounds.

Last week, Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh, Vietnam's deputy minister of defence, called the maritime tensions "a matter of concern".

That was the most forthright assessment yet by a Vietnamese defence official on the issue, said Carl Thayer, a Vietnam specialist with the Australian Defence Force Academy.

Vinh said the issue would not lead to conflict because international law provides a basis for a resolution, and Vietnam's policy is to ensure a peaceful outcome.

But Vietnam, with a long coastline and offshore oil potential, has faced a "strategic vulnerability" which it is now trying to address, Thayer said.

In Moscow, Dung confirmed only that the arms deal included submarines along with aircraft and "military equipment".

The aircraft order involved 12 Sukhoi Su-30MK2 warplanes worth more than 500 million dollars, Russia's Vedomosti newspaper reported earlier this year.

The fighters are among the world's most advanced and could provide air cover for the surface fleet, which Vietnam is seeking to enhance with new patrol craft, analysts say.

"What they're mostly trying to do is beef up their presence," Bitzinger said.

Vietnam's submarines will help to at least give it a capability of defending its maritime interests, Thayer said.

China's modernising military has prompted concern in the United States. Defence Secretary Robert Gates said US military power in the Pacific could be undermined, and a Pentagon report said China's weaponry and aircraft could enable it to carry out extended operations into the South China Sea.

While Vietnam's prime minister was signing the deal with Russia on Tuesday, his defence minister was on a rare visit to Washington where he held talks with Gates.

A Chinese embassy official in Hanoi, when asked to comment on the submarine deal, said Vietnam, Russia, and other countries in the area "must think about peace, and peace in the South China Sea."


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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 19 Dec 2009 02:57

Image Image
Vietnam Buys Russian Kilo Class Subs, SU-30 Fighters, Nuke Plant
In April 2009, reports surfaced that Vietnam had agreed in principle to a deal with Russia for 6 of its diesel-electric Kilo/ Project 636 Class fast attack submarines. There have been rumors that Vietnam owns 2 ex-Yugoslav mini-submarines for use in commando operations, but the Vietnamese People’s Navy doesn’t own any full size submarines that can take on enemy subs and ships. That’s about to change, thanks to a December 2009 contract. In addition to submarines, the Vietnamese Navy order is said to include new heavyweight torpedoes and missiles (most likely Klub family) to arm them.

China’s April 2009 display of naval might is only part of the mosaic influencing Vietnam’s decisions in this matter, as contracts for submarines – and more – are signed in Russia…

Aside from Thyssen Krupp Marine’s U209 family of submarines, the Russian Kilo Class are the world’s most widely exported subs. They’re known for a level of quietness that’s significantly better than other Russian designs, and have been produced in the Project 636 and Project 877EKM “Improved Kilo” variants. Countries operating or ordering these submarines include Russia, Algeria, China, India, Indonesia, Iran, Poland, and Romania.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 19 Dec 2009 17:27

Development of strategic nuclear fleet under threat?

The unsuccessful Bulava missile test calls into question the entire development strategy Russia has chosen for its strategic nuclear forces. At present the Russian Navy plans to introduce eight Project 955 submarines armed with 16 R-30 Bulava ballistic missiles for strategic nuclear purposes in the next 10 to 12 years. The failed missile test calls these plans into question.

At present, the first Project 955 ballistic missile submarine, the Yuri Dolgoruky, is being tested, while another two - the Alexander Nevsky and the Vladimir Monomakh - are expected to be launched in 2010 and 2011 respectively. Construction is slated to begin on the fourth submarine in the series - called the Svyatitel Nikolai according to some sources - on December 22, 2009.

After the failed Bulava missile test on December 9, 2009, the issue was raised once again of the feasibility of the current plan and possible alternatives to the Bulava. On December 11, Nikolai Kalistratov, the director of the Sevmash plant that builds the Project 955 nuclear submarines, said that it was necessary to consider the practicality of building a fourth Project 955 ballistic missile submarine in the absence of a "flying" missile. Some media sources have reported that initial construction of the new ballistic missile submarine had been postponed, although the Russian Defense Ministry denied these reports. Nevertheless, unnamed sources in the ministry subsequently reported that initial construction on the fourth Project 955 submarine had been postponed until the first quarter of 2010.

The Bulava tests are expected to resume in the first quarter of next year: in March 2010 to be exact. A number of experts see a connection between these two events and believe the decision to continue building Project 955 submarines will depend on the results of the next missile launch.

The Bulava is currently the only ballistic missile that can be deployed on the new submarines. There has been some discussion of refitting the Project 955 submarines to carry the liquid-fueled Sineva missile, but this would require considerable time and additional funding. Reviving the Bark Project, which was mothballed after work began on the Bulava, will take even more time, and, because of the size and weight of the missile, refitting the new submarines for the Bark would be even more difficult, if not outright impossible.

There is also the option of using the Project 955 submarines that have already been built or are under construction as cruise missile submarines before they can be modified for the Bulava, similarly to how the U.S. Navy uses four out of its 18 existing Ohio-class nuclear submarines. This option would require the least amount of time and resources, but cruise missiles cannot serve as a satisfactory replacement for ballistic missiles.

The core of Russia's strategic nuclear forces currently consists of 11 ballistic missile submarines armed with Makeyev Design Bureau missiles - five Project 667BDR nuclear submarines armed with R-29R missiles and six Project 667BDRMs nuclear submarines armed with R-29RM and R-29RMU Sineva missiles. Nevertheless, these vessels will be decommissioned in the near future due to their physical aging; the Project 667BDRs will be retired in the next five to seven years and the Project 667BDRMs in 10 to 20 years.

Consequently, it is possible to predict the following scenarios if the next Bulava test is a failure:

1. Missile submarine construction could be put on hold until the missile is finished or a new project of similar dimensions is developed. The completed Yuri Dolgoruky and the nearly-completed Project 955 nuclear submarines could be temporarily converted into cruise missile submarines similar to the refitted American Ohio-class missile submarines.

2. Construction on the series could be halted until an upgraded Project 955 capable of carrying the Sineva can be developed. The completed Yuri Dolgoruky and the nearly completed Project 955 nuclear submarines could also be refitted for the Sineva by replacing the missile compartment, as was done during the Soviet era when a series of Project 667A missile submarines were upgraded.

Both options would take a long time, and so the new fleet of strategic nuclear submarines could not actually be deployed until after 2015, which would require prolonging the service lives of the Project 667BDRM and possibly the Project 667BDR submarines. In addition, due to their age, considerable resources would have to be spent on overhauling and modernizing these older submarines to extend their service lives for the more or less long term.

It is apparent that a failure to bring the Bulava missile to a state of operational readiness would entail spending many billions of rubles to ensure the combat readiness of the strategic nuclear fleet. Moreover, the possibility cannot be ruled out of a breakdown in the strategic nuclear fleet's capabilities in the second half of the 2010s or the early 2020s. This would increase the burden on the two remaining pillars of the security triad - the Strategic Missile Force and long-range aviation. In this case, additional spending would be required to increase the combat strength of these two pillars in light of decreasing naval capabilities.

The reasons for such a situation are myriad, but Kalistratov clearly expressed the main reason in the aforementioned statement on December 11: "In both sports and in military hardware, you have to practice constantly. And we haven't practiced in this in our country for 15 years."

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Igorr » 21 Dec 2009 02:12

Some interesting facts about pr.855 'Yasen'

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Lilo » 21 Dec 2009 08:45

Craig Alpert wrote:
China’s April 2009 display of naval might is only part of the mosaic influencing Vietnam’s decisions in this matter, as contracts for submarines – and more – are signed in Russia…

Aside from Thyssen Krupp Marine’s U209 family of submarines, the Russian Kilo Class are the world’s most widely exported subs. They’re known for a level of quietness that’s significantly better than other Russian designs, and have been produced in the Project 636 and Project 877EKM “Improved Kilo” variants. Countries operating or ordering these submarines include Russia, Algeria, China, India, Indonesia, Iran, Poland, and Romania.


Russia’s Interfax news agency quoted an unnamed Defense Ministry official on Dec 15/09, who said the submarines were earlier model “Project 636” types :?:( dorky reporting or are there 2 versions of the improved kilo class ? ) , and gave the deal’s value at of $2 billion,


china has 10 subs of improved kilo class -time for IN to go on for some friendly port calls in nam ..?

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Ameet » 22 Dec 2009 03:50

New ships being readied for service - Littoral ships known for large cost overruns

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/news/200 ... d-service/

Rumsfeld approved the construction of 55 littoral combat ship hulls, each designed to carry interchangeable “plug-and-fight” modules for missions such as mine-hunting and anti-submarine warfare. Each vessel’s relatively low price tag of $220 million would allow the Navy to buy enough ships to boost its fleet of warships — currently at 252 — closer to its target of 313.

The program reached the production phase in only five years largely by pushing forward without regard to cost :wink: , naval analysts said. As a result, the ships’ price tag ballooned to more than double the original projection.

But because of budgetary concerns that year, the Navy canceled the contracts for the third and fourth ships to offset cost overruns on the first two ships. The Freedom’s total bill has climbed to $637 million, while the price tag for Independence has risen to $704 million.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Venu » 25 Dec 2009 15:12

Apologies of already posted, but was browsing for Vicky pics in google and found a very informative post on AC's and their complements. Sad part is that they did not include India in the list countries operating aircraft carriers.

Don't know if I can add the link of a post from another forum in a BR post and so wanted to take a benefit of doubt.

Aircraft carrier comparisons

Never imagined Kuzunetsov to have so potent air-defence.

Mods please delete the post if it is already discussed or it is against the BR rules.

My Shashtanga Pranaam.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby sumshyam » 26 Dec 2009 17:04

New Unmanned Baby Submarine To Protect Coastal Waters

It has a high degree of manoeuvrability and can turn within its own length and is able to operate at depths of 100 metres for anything up to 12 hours. With a top speed of more than five knots, it can hover and move around in any direction.


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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Gagan » 26 Dec 2009 18:55

Venu wrote:Apologies of already posted, but was browsing for Vicky pics in google and found a very informative post on AC's and their complements. Sad part is that they did not include India in the list countries operating aircraft carriers.

Aircraft carrier comparisons

My Shashtanga Pranaam.

This guy has done Indian carriers too. Check these pics out. The Vikramaditya and The Vikrant (The new one building in Cochin)
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Added later: He has these pics there in that page too.
regards

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Gerard » 27 Dec 2009 04:05

link
[The Bulava's] effectiveness has turned out to be simply amazing. The missile has not entered serial production, and never will, but it has already destroyed the Russian Navy. Almost all the money allocated to the Navy’s development have been spent on this mindless dead-end program.
Doesn't really matter though, right now the foreign investment for frigate exports to India and submarine exports to Vietnam and Indonesia is all that is keeping the shipbuilding industry in Russia on life support, completely unable to modernize.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby sumshyam » 27 Dec 2009 17:50

I well cooked story by James Kraska.
How the United States Lost the Naval War of 2015
Sorry..if re-posting.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 29 Dec 2009 19:55

Somali pirates seize tanker, cargo ship
NAIROBI, Kenya – Somali pirates seized a ship carrying fertilizer from the U.S. in the Indian Ocean and a British-flagged chemical tanker in the heavily patrolled Gulf of Aden — the first merchant vessel to be hijacked in the gulf in nearly six months, officials said Tuesday.
Greece's Merchant Marine Ministry said the Navios Apollon was carrying fertilizer from the United States to India. It was taken 240 nautical miles northeast of Seychelles, it said. The crew was comprised of one Greek and 18 Filipinos, it said.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Vinito » 30 Dec 2009 23:34

Venu wrote:Apologies of already posted, but was browsing for Vicky pics in google and found a very informative post on AC's and their complements. Sad part is that they did not include India in the list countries operating aircraft carriers.

Don't know if I can add the link of a post from another forum in a BR post and so wanted to take a benefit of doubt.

Aircraft carrier comparisons

Never imagined Kuzunetsov to have so potent air-defence.

Mods please delete the post if it is already discussed or it is against the BR rules.

My Shashtanga Pranaam.


the Kuznetsov and Admiral Gorshkov placed equal impetus of an offensive ability to conduct strikes without even resorting to their aircrafts. A mere glance at the awesome firepower of these warships can put a decently sized destroyer or frigate to shame

Anti Air - AK-630 CIWS (8) / Kinzhal SAMS / SA-N-6 Grumble long range SAM's / SA-N-8 Gremlin shorads
Anti Surface - SS-N-19 Shipwreck in the Kuznetsov / SS-N-12 Sandbox long range missiles (600+ miles)
Anti Subs - RBU-6000 / RBU-12000 anti sub rockets

Even without aircraft these behemoths could still be a formidable adversary.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Chandragupta » 31 Dec 2009 00:25

Kuzunetsov is a fortress :shock: I am thinking Gorshkov is severly under defended in comparison to that. :-?

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Venu » 31 Dec 2009 08:10

Gagan wrote:This guy has done Indian carriers too. Check these pics out. The Vikramaditya and The Vikrant (The new one building in Cochin)

Added later: He has these pics there in that page too.
regards


I am talking about this statement

Introducing the carriers
There are only four countries operating conventional aircraft carriers:

Admiral Kuznetsov, Russia

Nimitz, USA

NAe Sao Paulo, Brazil

Charles De Gaulle, France


Indian Carriers are included under the category of carriers not yet inducted.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 31 Dec 2009 08:45

realistically, capital ships like carriers will not operate alone - a group of DDG and FFG plus atleast one SSN can be expected even for Russia.

so instead of wasting volume on 196 SAMs and 24 huge Granit missiles, the Kuz could have
used them for additional hanger space for ASW helis/Su33, extra fuel and provisions to strengthen the aerial strike group.

a 'austere' fitment of 4 x Kashtan-M sets and maybe 32 VL-tor would be a decent kit for anti-ASM work.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Anujan » 31 Dec 2009 09:21

Singha wrote:so instead of wasting volume on 196 SAMs and 24 huge Granit missiles, the Kuz could have
used them for additional hanger space for ASW helis/Su33, extra fuel and provisions to strengthen the aerial strike group.


But if she were a "classic" aircraft carrier, she would not be able to pass through the Bosporus Straits, it is forbidden by convention.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 31 Dec 2009 13:56

they should have fitted some dummy silos and SAMs to sail her out of nikolayev and never returned, after removing them in sevmash :mrgreen:

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 01 Jan 2010 00:39

First NFH-90 to enter Dutch service in Initial Operational Capability role

Dec 29, 2009
By Robert Wall/Paris

The first NFH90 maritime helicopter is now in the hands of the Netherlands military, the lead customer for the rotorcraft, but the system is still not ready for operational use.

Development of the NFH90 has been plagued by problems with a range of systems, including the maritime search radar and tactical navigation system. Those issue have led to repeated adjustments to the project’s schedule. To minimize the already extensive delays and expedite the process of getting the rotorcraft to users, the NH Industries consortium and government buyers opted for a phased fielding program, which is now unfolding with the delivery of the first Dutch NFH90 last week.


The handover, which took place at AgustaWestland’s facility, will allow the NFH90 to undergo acceptance trials by military personnel.

The delivered-NFH90 is in the so-called “meaningful operationally capable” production standard, signaling it lacks the full operational features the NFH90 is to provide. The defense ministry says the helo can be used for crew training and basic coastal surveillance operations.
The NFH90 is to be based at the De Kooy airfield in Den Helder. France, the next country to receive NFH90s, should see its first handover in 2010.


link

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Vinito » 05 Jan 2010 03:59

Singha wrote:realistically, capital ships like carriers will not operate alone - a group of DDG and FFG plus atleast one SSN can be expected even for Russia.

so instead of wasting volume on 196 SAMs and 24 huge Granit missiles, the Kuz could have
used them for additional hanger space for ASW helis/Su33, extra fuel and provisions to strengthen the aerial strike group.

a 'austere' fitment of 4 x Kashtan-M sets and maybe 32 VL-tor would be a decent kit for anti-ASM work.


Although, carriers are accompanied by a group of ships there is no harm in equipping the carrier to defend itself as well. The Soviets never called their carriers as "carriers" but something else to enable them to pass through a particular strait (cannot remeber the type of the ship they called it and also the strait).

Also, the initial aviation for all Soviet carriers including the Kuznetsov & Kiev class was the Yakovlev V/STOL aircraft which was much smaller compared to the much more heavy Su-33 series. The total aircrafts carried during those days was close to 40 which was a mix of helos and these v/stol crafts. The Su-33 aircrafts were inducted after the Yak series were retired and by that time this carrier was already 7-8 years old.

Armamentwise, the long range grumble missile makes more sense as the Soviets did not have shipboard AWACS to enable tracking targets at long range (the Ka-31 came in much later). So they operated a mix of the long range SA-N-6 and also the shorter range AK-630 CIWS(KAshtan system was not developed) when the Kuz was designed.

The SSN-19 missile is only operated on the Kuznetsov, I am not aware of any other ship(not sub) that uses this type (but i may be wrong) and it provided an excellent offensive and technologically superb wepon(during its time) to the carrier which supplemented the capabilities of the Yakovlev aircraft(which was a limited in range and weapons carrying capability). So it made sense to the Soviets to have a weapon that could strike at ranges beyond the aircrafts range.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Shyam_K » 05 Jan 2010 08:25

Vinito wrote: The Soviets never called their carriers as "carriers" but something else to enable them to pass through a particular strait (cannot remeber the type of the ship they called it and also the strait).


Soviets called their carriers either "heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser" or "heavy aviation cruiser" and the straits are the Dardanelles and the Bhosphorus (between the black sea and the Aegean sea, i.e. Mediterranean)

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 07 Jan 2010 17:39

Terrorists and drug mafia midget-sub menace growing.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/ ... 00106.aspx

Everyone With Sneaky Needs Does It

January 6, 2010: In early 2009, as the Sri Lankan Army moved into territory held, for years, by the rebel LTTE (Tamil separatists), they found some surprises. One, on the northeast coast, was a submarine shipyard. Well, not exactly submarines, but close. These semi-submersible boats run mostly submerged, and are excellent at evading detection. This design was first developed by Colombian drug gangs a decade ago, and these craft are carrying most of the cocaine being moved north to the United States. Several years of effort by the U.S. Navy to improve detection methods, have not had much success. Thus the semi-submersibles are a growing problem, and it is known that criminal gangs will sell their technology to other groups. If Islamic terrorists got their hands on these subs, they would have a useful way to move people and goods, as well as for making attacks.
The Sri Lankan troops found four semi-submersibles in various states of completion. The LTTE subs were smaller than the Colombian ones, and most were apparently intended as suicide bomb boats. Recently, a semi-submersible was found in Spain, where it was to be used for smuggling drugs, from ships far offshore. The technology is definitely spreading.

In the last four years, U.S., and other navy and coast guard ships off the coast between Mexico and Colombia, have detected over 150 of these subs. Between 2000 and 2007, only 23 of these boats were spotted. But last year, over 70 were detected or captured. The numbers are up these year as well. Many of the captures are the result of intelligence information at the source, not air and naval patrols out there just looking for them. These boats are hard to spot (by aircraft or ships), which is why they are being used more often.

It's estimated that about 75 of these subs are being built in northwest Colombia each year, and sent on one way trips north. Each of these boats carries a four man crew and about seven tons of cocaine (worth nearly $200 million on the street). The loss of each boat and its cargo cost the Colombian drug cartels over $10 million in costs (of building the boat and producing the drugs). The crews are often Colombian fishermen forced to make the long voyage, because their families were being held hostage. Running these boats is considered very dangerous work, and the crews are paid well if they succeed, whether they volunteered for the work or not. Because of the risks (about ten percent are believed lost at sea), the boats are nicknamed "coffins." The crews are told to pull the plug (literally) and sink the boat (and its cargo) if spotted and about to be boarded. Even with the boarding party on the way, jumping off a sinking boat, usually at night, is dangerous. Laws have been changed so that the crews escaping from their sinking boats, can still be charged with drug smuggling (despite the loss of the evidence). The drug gangs are looking into automating the boats, so that no crew is needed at all.

These semi-submersible "submarines" have been operating off the northwest (Pacific) coast of South America for at least a decade. More than a third of the of the 800 tons of cocaine coming out of Colombia each year leaves via the Pacific coast subs, that move the drugs north. Despite increased efforts, it's believed that less than ten percent of these subs have been caught. The drug gangs still use other smuggling methods (aircraft, hidden in ship or aircraft cargo), but apparently the subs can move the most cocaine at once, with the lowest risk.

A typical Colombian "semi-submersibles" is a 60 foot long and 12 feet wide, fiberglass boats, powered by a diesel engine, with a very low freeboard, and a small "conning tower", providing the crew (usually of four), and engine, with fresh air, and permitting the crew to navigate the boat. A boat of this type is the only practical kind of submarine for drug smuggling. A real submarine, capable of carrying five tons of cocaine, would cost a lot more, and require a highly trained crew. Moreover, a conventional sub actually spends most of its time running on the surface anyway, or just beneath it using a snorkel device to obtain air for the diesel engine crew. So the drug subs get the most benefit of a real submarine (which cost about $300 million these days) at a fraction of the cost.

Local boat builders created and refined the current design. Some foreign experts have been seen in the area, apparently to help the boat builders with some technical problem. These subs cost over $700,000 to construct, and carry up to ten tons of cocaine. The boat builders are getting rich, constructing the boats in well hidden locations up the rivers that empty into the Pacific.

At one point it was thought that as many as half of the subs were captured or lost at sea. But this is apparently not the case. That's because most of these subs are built for a one way trip. This keeps down the cost of construction, and the cost of hiring a crew (who fly home). That one voyage will usually be for about a thousand kilometers, with the boat moving at a speed of 15-25 kilometers an hour. The average trip will take about two weeks, because the boats have learned to go very slowly during the day, to avoid leaving a wake that U.S. airborne sensors can detect.

In the past, some subs making long range trips were caught while being towed by a larger ship. Apparently the plan was to tow a semi-submersible, loaded with a ten ton cocaine cargo, long distances, and then be cut it loose for the final approach to the shore of California or some area in Europe or on the east coast of North America. While the subs are most frequently used from the Pacific coast of Colombia, they are showing up elsewhere as well.

These subs are not stealthy enough to avoid detection all the time, and the U.S. has been trying to tweak search radars, and other types of sensors, to more reliably detect the drug subs. The technology has already spread, with one of these boats found being built in Spain four years ago, by a local drug gang, to bring cocaine ashore from a seagoing ship far out at sea in international waters. GPS makes these kinds of operations possible.

Increased maritime patrols, and infiltration of drug gangs in Colombia, has led to a significant increase in captures of these boats. On land, Colombian soldiers and police are doing a lot of damage to cocaine production, and making boat production more difficult. All this is having an impact, with cocaine prices going up, and quality going down. Drug testing and surveys indicates that cocaine use in the United States has declined 10-20 percent as a result.

But the stealthy boats are a concern to counter-terror officials. Bombs and terrorists can be transported in these vessels, and the technology for building them can be, and perhaps already has, spread to terrorist groups. The basic principles are available on the Internet, and any skilled boat builders can construct them. The technology is improving as well. Recently captured boats had a system installed that cooled the engine exhaust, making it more difficult for infrared (heat) sensors to sport it. Thus the U.S. Navy is putting a lot of effort into improving its sensors and search techniques, for finding these boats.


Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 10 Jan 2010 16:36

Relevant for IN since we are looking to add a new second Type of SSK in IN

Fourth generation Non-Nuclear Submarines (NNS) in struggle for markets

In 1980s the two world powers - the USSR and the USA - got down to design of the fourth generation of the non-atomic submarines which differ from their predecessors on higher combat effectiveness achieved by implementation of the latest achievements in nuclear engineering hydrodynamics, weapons, construction materials, stealthiness, submarine acoustics and not acoustic means of submarine detection, automatic control systems, communication etc. As a result such submarines as "Seawolf" (entered the service in 1997) and "Virginia" (entered the service in 2004) multi-purpose submarines as well as Project-885 and Project-955 Russian nuclear propulsions (their entering the service of the Naval forces is expected in 2008-09), the French "Barracuda" nuclear submarine (the forerunner was laid down in 2007) and the British "Ascute" (2009) appeared.


Some time later in 1990s the construction of the first NNS of the fourth generation was started in Germany, France and Russia. Today they are in fierce competitive struggle for the international market of under-water weapons.


Today the total amount of the NNSs in the fleets of 44 states is about 400. These ships play both tactical and strategic role providing even small countries which have submarine forces with the possibility to damage larger and stronger enemy during naval operations. That is why the world market of NNS appears to be highly profitable, prospective and capacious. Its peak increase can be even in the next decade when full range substitution of the third-generation submarines will begin in many countries.


However, the NNSs (which can be referred to as diesel-electric) were in the "shade" of their nuclear "sisters" in 1960-1980s. Its enough to say that one of the super-powers, the US, rejected the idea of development of these ships (excluding the development of special purpose submarines and deep-sea vehicles). From 1950s US NATO allies started the development of the NNS projects. The second world leader, the USSR, unlike the US needed both ocean-going and sea-going ships (The Baltic and the Black seas have international non-nuclear status). The USSR developed its diesel-electric submarines according to so-called "residual principle" investing the bulk assets and resources of the military-industrial complex into upgrading of its nuclear submarine fleet first of all.


The submarine ship-building (even in its non-nuclear part which seems easier at first) remained high-tech and science-intensive area and demanded powerful engineering and production base which in its turn demanded enough large means and assets for development. With growth of its complexity and science-intensiveness the number of the states capable to project and build not nuclear submarines independently constantly reduced. If in 1950 - 1960s the diesel-electric submarines were produced by practically all leading ship-building powers of Europe - England, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, the Western Germany, France and Sweden. By 1990s only Germany, France and Sweden remained in the European «club of not nuclear submarines producers». Other countries preferred either to buy NNS abroad or to build them under foreign licenses.


At the same time submarines still remained one of most effective means of the armed struggle on the sea. And if in 1950-1960s the demand for them was appreciably satisfied with modernized American or Soviet submarines of military series as well as the submarines of the first post-war generation in service with the Naval Forces of the USSR and the USA, in 1970s the first place (after the Soviet ship-building industry, and the Chinese, who duplicated the Soviet diesel submarines of the first generation in great quantities) was occupied by English, German and French ship builders. In particular, the German Type 205, Type 209 submarines and their numerous variants got the world wide recognition. The submarines of Project-209 have really got the world-wide recognition: in 1970-2000s 63 submarines of this type of various modifications have been delivered in 14 countries of the world. Under the German license their assemblage was carried out in Argentina, Brazil, India, Turkey, South Korea.



Approximately at the same time (1974-2006) France built 13 submarines of "«Agosta»" type. Four of them were given to the national fleet, four - for the Spanish Navy and five - for the Pakistani Navy.



Japan was one of the most active in diesel-electric submarines production countries. The country used its own projects and built several series of relatively large (2500-2800 m3) ocean-going submarines of the second and the third generation which had "albacore"-type hull (the export of weapons and combat vehicles is prohibited in the country by the law). China in parallel with buying of the Russian submarines of the third generation (Projects 877 and 636) produces so-called national "clones" of this submarines and the ships of its own projects using Russian and French technology.


The evolution of the diesel-electric submarines of the second and the third after-war generations (both Russian and Western) was going on along with the modernizing the nuclear propulsions in the way of increasing stealthiness, depth of submersion, self-sustained period, combat possibilities of the weapons and other parameters. The growing demand for diesel-electric submarines in 1970s led to restoration of interest for airindependent non-atomic power plants for submarines which were concerned as auxiliary power plants ensuring the under-water self-sustained period at low speed by two-three (and more) times.


It is necessary to tell that in 1940-1950s the work in this direction was actively conducted in the USSR, the USA and the Great Britain. However after occurrence of the first underwater atomic-powered vessels the interest to such projects considerably decreased for more than a decade having revived only after the diesel-electric submarines proved the capability to be applied effectively even in "atomic age" successfully supplementing incomparably more expensive and sometimes less effective nuclear propulsions.



In 1996-1997 three submarines of "Holland" type entered the service of the Swedish fleet. They conditionally can be corresponded to generation «3 +». The ships with displacement of 1300/1600 м3 and the length of 60.4 m which were constructed on the shipyard in Malino representing further development of diesel-electric submarines of the 3rd generation of the "Vaster»Gotland»" type, have lower noiseness and equipped with modern radio-electronic equipment and weapons. However their main feature is presence airindependent power plant which includes Stirling engines.


Works on this engine began in Sweden in 1960s, and in 1989 the test submarine (converted "Nacken" diesel-electric submarine), equipped with Stirling engines was tested. Unlike diesel engine (where fuel burning occurs in the cylinder under the piston), in the Stirling it is performed in the separate cmbustion chamber. The heat is transferred to a working body (inert gas) which is in the cylinder which actuates the piston. Thus the products of combustion which are under high pressure, are released out board without the additional compressor.


The successful end of the experimental works has allowed the Swedes to start design of high-grade combat submarines. On each of thr "«Gotland»s" two engines of external combustion with the capacity of 75 kw were installed. Soon in the same way with «Gotland» and its «sisterships» two submarines of the third generation of Vaster "Gotland" type were modernized too in Malino. Thus the Swedish fleet was the first in the world to equip fully the underwater forces with NNSs with airindependent power plants.


Power plants with Stirling engines provide the submarine at a speed of 2.5 knots with the duration of the underwater course equal to 20 days. The submarine can go with a speed of up to 20 knots using accumulators. The weak points are - the efficiency is less than a diesel has, big noiseness, leaving trace, and restriction on depth (which, however, is not critical for the Swedish submarines, owing to hydrographic features of the Baltic having working depth of only 150 m).


With the experimental purposes the Swedish engines were bought by Australia. And in Japan with the same purposes the "Asahio" submarines ("Harushio" type) were converted for the Stirling engines. In 2005 the «Gotland» submarine was taken in leasing by the US Navy. According to the official version the US is going to use it for working off of the measures for struggle with perspective anaerobic NNSs of China. However it is most possible to assume, that the Americans simply wish to return to rather perspective international market of NNS and make up the missed opportunities by using actively the advanced European experience for this purpose. At the same time there is no information on contracts on delivery of new boats of the «Gotland» type or on the beginning of building of submarines with the Stirling engines in Japan which also has selected «the Swedish way». The plans of new generation boats with the Strerling engines in Sweden left without continuation.


In 1994 the government of Germany signed the contract on purchase of four submarines of Type 212 which are the new, fourth generation of NNS. The development of these ships was preceded by long works in the sphere of anaerobic power plants of various types, which had been performed in Germany since 1970s. As a result, in the early nineties, after carrying out of numerous experiments and tests (including the tests on the experiment ship - the U-1 Type 205 submarine), the German experts chose the power plant with electrochemical generators (ECG).

This device provides direct transformation of chemical energy into electric, which is carried out in special electrochemical elements (cells). PP with ECG has a number of important advantages to not nuclear airindependent plants of other types - steam turbines of the closed cycle, Stirling engines, diesel engines of the closed cycle, etc. In particular, at rather high efficiency electrochemical generators possess low level of oxygen consumption, have a small thermal emission, and at the output only one product, water, appears.


It is necessary to consider the following points as serious, basic weak points of ECG. First of all, the difficulties with storage of hydrogen: it is dangerous to store it onboard a submarine in the form of the compressed gas or peroxide, and in a liquid condition (with reference to conditions onboard a submarine) - it is extremely technically difficult. The German experts have selected the way of storage of hydrogen in metal-hydride accumulators (so-called intermetallic storage) at which emptiness in a crystal lattice of metal are filled with atoms of hydrogen. However for charging of such batteries "smooth" conditions which can be created only on well equipped coastal base are required. As a result the ship becomes rigidly bound to the limited number of basing sites, which essentially limits its application.


The architecture of the German boat of the 4th generation essentially differed from shape of German submarines of previous generations. The ship has extremely svelt (earlier not peculiar for German submarines) contours with a protection of sliding devices, smoothly «plane likely» interfaced to contours of a superstructure and reminding "cabins" of limuzine type Soviet nuclear propulsions of the 2nd and 3rd generations. It is necessary to tell, that close contours are considered also by the Americans within the framework of works at nuclear propulsions of the 6th generation whih should replace "Virginia" in 2020s.


In 1996 Naval Forces of Italy for which it was necessary to fill up the fleet with at least two new submarines in 2000-2010 joined the German program of design of 212 type submarine. The «Romanized» project of the submarine was designated as Type 212А.

The first boat of Project-212 - U31 named "Wittenberg" was laid in July, 1998, in Kiel on "Howaldswerke Deutchewerft" and was floated in April, 2002. On October, 19, 2005 this ship as well as the second boat of the same type - U32 "Edenkoben" constructed by "Tissen Nordtzeewerke" (Emden) - in solemn conditions were transferred to the fleet. Thus the German Naval Forces after 1969 for the first time were replenished with new submarines. In 2006 the Naval Forces of Germany received two more boats of the given type.


The Italian NNSs Type 212А are under construction on shipyard in Finkantieri (their enering the service is expected in 2009 and 2010), differ from the German "elder sisters" in a number of insignificant features of design and equipment set in which the interests of the Italian manufacturers are taken into consideration.


On Greek shipyard "Helenik Shipyard" two boats of Type 214 which are the export version of Type 212 are under construction for the Naval Forces of Greece. They have increased to 65 m length and less powerful PP with ECG. The surface displacement of the boats is 1600 м3. The head Greek ship "Palanicolis" was floated in April, 2004. Three more NNSs of Type 214 according to the contract signed in 2000 are under construction in Korean Republic for the national Naval Forces. Turkey declared its desire to buy six boats of Type 214. Brazil and the Republic of South Africa became potentcial buyers of these boats in 2008.


The Type 212 boats having surface displacement of 1450 м3 and underwater displacement of 1830 м3 are made in one-and-a-half type (which is caused by necessity to generate volumes for components of ECG). The X-shaped tail plumage (which was earlier made at a number of the 3rd generation submarines which are produced in Germany for a number of foreign customers) rather seldom applied in underwater shipbuilding is another feature of configuration of these submarines. The strength hull of the ship is made of low-magnetic steel, and the external hull and the protection of sliding devices are made of fiberglass.


Power plant of the boat includes usual diesel-electric PP, added with the electrochemical generator. The rowing electric motor with the capacity of 3875 h.p. actuates seven-bladed quiet rowing screw with crescent-type blades. The capacity of ECG is about 306 kw (nine generators with 34 kw each) which provides the boat with full underwater speed of 8 knots, and cruiser speed of 3 knots. Type 212 according to the statements of company representatives is capable to go in underwater position for 14 days (the range of a course is about 1700 miles). With the diesel engine, at cruiser speed of 8 knots, the range is 8000 miles, at a course with only accumulators the boat is capable to cover 420 miles at a speed of 4 knots.


Type 212 and Type 212А NNSs have length of 55.9 m and full speed of underwater course of 17 knots (according to other information - about 20 knots). The maximum depth of submersion is 300 m, self-sustained period - 30 days. Submarines are equipped with six 533-mm torpedo tubes with munition of 12 torpedoes (the regular weapon of the German submarines is the newest electric torpedoes DM2A4 with the maximum speed of an underwater course of about 50 knots and the range of about 20 km. Instead of it the boat can carry mines). The NNS crew is 27 persons. Cost of one serial ship of Project-214 is estimated (depending on the set of equipment and weapon) is 300-350 million euro.


The competitor of Type 212/214 is the "Scorpen" submarine which designed by French DCN company together with Spanish Izar (former Bazan). The new submarine is the further development of the 3rd generation "Agosta" boat. At its development the experience of design and operation of the French atomic-powered vessels (in particular, tiny "Rubis" nuclear propulsion) was widely used. The project has three variants. The choice is defined by desire and financial possibilities of customers:

- Base (usual diesel-electric submarine);

- variant with airindependent installation;

- "Compact", also with airindependent installation, but of less capacity.


Unlike the German boats equipped with fuel elements, the French submarine (the variant with airindepended power installation) is equipped with the MESMA steam turbine of the closed cycle (STCC). At combustion of diesel fuel and oxygen (contained onboard the boat in liquid type) in the special chamber the warm is generated wich serves for work of the steam generator of this PP. Steam goes for supply of the turbine with the capacity of 200 kw, and then it is condensed. Water is repeatedly used in system of the closed cycle, and carbonic gas appearing during fuel burning is thrown out the board. Thus internal pressure in system is so, that gas removal can be carried out at the depth exceeding limiting depth of boat submersion.


Three Pakistan «Agosts» transferred to the customer in 1999-2006 which have an additional compartment with the length of about 10 m with the steam turbine of the closed cycle were the first submarines equipped with plants of MESMA type. Thus standard displacement of the modernised boats increased from 1500 to 1770 t, and the maximum speed reduced from 20 to 19 knots.


The contract for construction of the first "Scorpen" (which were unlike Agost and German Type 212/214 completely export ships) was signed in 1997. It provided construction of two NNSs (O`Higgins and Carrera) in base (diesel-electric) configuration for the Naval Forces of Chile. The transfer to the customer was accordingly in 2007 and 2008. In 2002 another contract for two boats for the Naval Fleet of Malaysia was signed. And in 2003 Spain made the decision on construction of four S-80 NNSs (enlarged in sizes modification of "Scorpen") on Izar shipyard.


However the greatest success of the French builders of submarines was in India. On October, 6, 2005 the contract on licence construction of six "Scorpen" for the Indian Naval Forces was signed as a result of the international competition. The construction (using French accessories) of submarines of base variant as well as the variant with MESMA plant (starting with the fourth hull) on Indian shipyard "Mazagon Docks" (Bombay) is provided. It is supposed, that the first Indian submarine will enter the service in 2012 and the whole series will be finished by 2017. Unlike the boats of this type intended for Chile and Malaysia which have just torpedo weapons the Indian "Scorpen" NNS should be equipped with the SM.40 Exocet anti-ship tactical cruise missiles launced from undewater.


It is necessary to notice that promption of NNSs on international weapons market is actively lobbied at the top international level by our competitors. In Germany it was the Chancellor who personally performed the promotion of German submarines for export, carried on negotiations with the prime minister and the president of India as well as with the leaders of some other countries. French president Chirac personally went to the president of India, to the prime minister of Malaysia... India and Malaysia bought "Scorpen" instead of our boats. South Korea, Greece and Portugal bought Type 214 boat, Chile bought "Scorpen"... Such tendency is very alarming. But we will return to the French ship.


The base variant of the boat in has normal displacement of 1550 t and the length of 66.4 m. It develops full underwater speed of 20 knots and is capable to dive at the depth to 300 m. Using accumulators the diesel-electric "Scorpen" can cover the distance equal to 550 miles in underwater position at cruiser speed. The variant of "Scorpen" with the MESMA steam turbine is a little longer (76.2) and the displacement is 1770. In the airindependent mode this boat is capable to cover 1300 miles at cruiser speed of 4 knots. As well as the German analogue, the French NNS distinguish with small noiseness acheived as the result of the hydrodynamic perfection of the form of the boat hull, minimising the quantity of outstanding parts, optimisation of the rowing screw configuration, acoustic isolation of decks, equipment placing in the places where it is possible on rubber shock-absorbers, use of double elastic linings for installation of the most noise emission systems.


The competitors of Russia have the example in reducing noiseness to achieve. In late seventies in Russa in Leningrad Central Design Bureau "Rubin" under the Chief designer Jury Nikolaevich Kormilitsin's administration the 3rd generation Project-877 diesel-electric submarine, a well-known «Varshavianka», was designed. In 1980-1990s it was a kind standard of stealthiness among submarines. The Americans even nicknamed it as «a black hole» adding that our submarine should be looked for in areas where the sea "does not rustle"...


In 1980 the Russian Navy, and later the fleets of the foreign states started to receive submarines of this type. Naval Forces of Russia, Algeria, India, Iran, China, Romania and Poland got approximately 60 NNSs of Projects 877, 877В, 877Э, 877ЭК, 877ЭКМ, 636 and 636М which were improved every time (boats of Project-636 can be referred to as «3 +» generation). These well armed, reliable and highly-aesthetic ships became an appreciable mark in domestic and world shipbuilding. Building of these ships for foreign customers continues nowadays.


The first Russian NAS of the new, fourth generation Project-677 submarine ("Lada") designed by St.-Petersburg CDB МТ "Rubin" under the administration of J.N.Kormilitsin who was the general designer of the NNS. The variant of this ship intended for supplies to foreign customers has received a designation of «Amur-1650». Serial production of the ships is accustomed on the Admiralteyskie Verfi (St.-Petersburg) under the administration of the Director-general, the Hero of Russia Vladimir Leonidovich Aleksandrov.


The forerunner - "St.-Petersburg" - was laid down in December, 1999, floated in September, 2004 and in January, 2007 went on sea trial. It is necessary to say that tests and operational adjusting of the new ship were tightened that, certainly, causes criticism in domestic mass-media and some malevolenty of the competitors. However it is necessary to remember that "St.-Petersburg" is the first underwater ship of the the new, 4th generation, which design contains the highest level of technical novelty. Critics can object: it was possible to give up a number of the most risky decisions and create a less "revolutionary" but more simple boat which canb be easier implemented technically. But acting in a such «quasipragmatic» way inevitably would lead us to legging behind the European contenders and, in the long run, to loss of world NNS markets. It is necessary to take into consideration the fact that the Russian ship-building industry was conducting the work on the new ship during the most complicated postcrisis period when, after decades of economic disorder, disintegration and universal plundering tragical for our defence industry it was possible to describe the condition of the Russian ship-building industry with only one phrase: «the patient is more likely alive, than dead».


However today the process of recovering of this "patient" gains positive dynamics. And the designers of "Amur" (who did not reconcil with full breakdown of branch and loss of the country's ability to creat new underwater ships as it seemed 10 years ago to many people) and the present management of the Navy should be thanked for that. It is necessary to note the obvious revival of interest to issues of Russia's sea power reconstruction in the top state structures.


In July, 2005 the laying of the first Project-677 serial boat - "Kronstadt" (as seamen and shipbuilders say - «the second hull») which is planned to be transfered to the fleet in 2009 took place. In 2010 of the Navy should be replenished with the "Sevastopol" boat laid in 2006, then comes "Petropavlovsk" ... The Baltic fleet is planning to have two six "Lada" submarines-strong squadrons. Approximately the same number of the submarines of the given project will be got by the Black Sea fleet a little bit later.

According to the words of Director-general of the "Admiralteyskie verfi" Vladimir Aleksandrov in August, 2008, it is expected, that this enterprise will put 12 NSSs of "Amur-1650" type for export. Market cost of one submarine should make 150-200 mln. dollars that is much less than cost of its German analogue.

The new ship, for the first time (for the Russian NSS) belongs to the one-hull architecturally-constructive type has the hull, a superstructure and the protection of the sliding devices made of high-strength steel. At the boat the SED-1all-mode rowing electric motor with the constant magnets, capacity of 4100 kw and nominal frequency of rotation of 200 rpm is installed. Storage battery of the submarine includes two groups of accumulators with 126 elements each. Power consumption in the long discharging mode is 10580 kw/h. Service life of the storage battery is no less than five years.

Normal displacement of "Amur-1650" is 1765 м3, the length is 66.8 m, speed of a full underwater course (in the serial configuration) - 21 knots, operational depth of submersion - 300 m, the maximum range of course - 6500 miles, range of course in underwater position using accumulators - 650 km (at cruiser speed of 3.5 knots). Self-sustained period of the boat - 45 days, ship crew - 35 persons.

The level of the acoustic field of "Amur-1650" (after the end of its operational development) should be several times lower (!) than at the boats of the 3rd generation (in particular at the well-known "Varsavianka" which is considered until recently to be the quietest submarine in the world). It is acheived, in particular, at the expense of use of new, much more effective, sound-proof covering. One more unique, innovative mean of radical decrease of the noise which is expected at serial NSSs is so-called active protection - the system generating sound waves in an antiphase to radiation of the boat.


The ship is equipped with the "Lithium" combat information and control system of the 4th generation developed by the "Sistema" Science and production complex (Chief designer - L.E.Fedorov). This integrated automated complex ensures control of the boat, its information, combat and other means as well as ship-wide data exchange system. The "board" of "Lada", as well as foreign NNSs of the 4th generation has the modern element and program base providing automated control from operator panels placed in the main command post of the boat. Radio-electronic means of outer information reception are integrated into data exchange system which with the maximum speed performs automatic processing and the analysis of the information from various sensors and represents in the generalised view on sensor-controlled LCD displays.


The important innovation, for the first time (with reference to Russian submarines), implemented at "Amur-1650" is the telescopic lifting-mast devices with television, thermovision and laser sensors which do not penitrate into the strength-hull (it is necessary to notice that similar "not penitrating" sliding devices were applied for the first time by the American ship builders at the 4th generation "Virginia" nuclear propulsion which entered the service in 2004, and for the first time such devices were used by the Italians (1966).

Critics of a new Russian boat mark as one of the arguments the absence of airindependent PP at the forerunner. But speaking unbiassedly it appears that in the project of a new Russian submarine as well as the French NNS the using of anaerobic power plants is only an option along with the supply of of boats with traditional power plants . Though the German submarines have the ECG included initially in the regular PP as auxiliary plant.

Thus Russian and French NAVY displaying proper care allow their foreign counterparts for "military technical cooperation" to develop a new power system (although very useful in prospect but not of vital importance in term of tactics and strategy, taking into consideration a great number of nuclear propulsions Russia and France possess) just to avoid inevitable difficulties that always accompany research work.

At the same time Germany has "crossed Rubicon" in its decision to develop the air independent power plant. Why? Perhaps the main reason is that Germans focus on international weapon market. The success of the Project-212 will give them merchant pre-eminence. If submarine operators (primarily abroad) face any difficulties (Germany fuel system has already appeared to be unreliable) the whole military sector of shipbuilding industry in this country will certainly suffer disastrously. But it is a gamble...


Against this background the conventional diesel power plants placed on first "Amur-1650" and "Scorpen" submarines prove their reliability, simpleness and flexibility. It is necessary to mention that Project-677 conventional submarine is able to cover longer distance in submerged mode (650 miles at speed 3.5 knots) than the Germany and French submarines (420 and 550 miles respectively at the same speed). Although the European 4th generation craft powered with the air independent power plant have the range superior to that mentioned above - 1300-1700 miles, but it is the time that will test this quality. Besides, the next generation accumulator plant to be put on the "Scorpen" will extend their range to 750-800 miles at 4 knots. Russia also develops technologies of its own which will soon allow "Amur-1650" to reach the French figures if not breach them.

The 4th generation Russian, German and French conventional submarines are equipped with tactical data systems resembled each other by "intellectual" ability: they have practically the same structure and element base.

Damage control is considered to be advantage of the Russian submarine over its foreign prototype. The use of glass fiber plastic in German submarine arouses incredulity: this material had been used in the US, Soviet and Britain constructions especially in topside and conning tower and appeared to be unreliable in severe ocean condition. As a result metal elements were then used instead of glass fiber plastic.

Comparing the "Amur-1650" (which includes advantages of the "Varshavianka" submarine and nuclear propulsions built in the "Rubin" designing department and has noisiness level 6-8 times less than its predecessor) and the German Type 212 submarine with acoustic stealthiness compatible to that of late Project-636 submarine we can tell it for certain that the Project-677 submarine has stealthiness superior to that of German design and apparently of French also.


The record hydroacoustic antenna surface (for this class submarine) of the "Amur-1650" coupled with low noisiness level is enough to believe that our conventional submarine has better search capability than its German and French prototypes.

Certain difficulties emerged during head craft tests are just another evidence that it is impossible to bypass problems while developing a new complex engineering structure which the submarine is considered to be (also amid financial and personnel shortage our shipbuilding faced in previous period). And it is very important for us not to blame somebody but to find the way out as soon as possible. If it is needed we have to find extra money because the loss of time today means loss of the defense capacity and market tomorrow!


The "Amur-1650" is equipped with 6 533 mm bow torpedo tubes, designed to launch also missiles. Its principle characteristic is ability to employ cruise missile against ships and vessels of the enemy as well as his shore installations.

The interval between barrages is much shorter than that of the previous generation indigenous submarines and its foreign prototypes which is accomplished by unique reloading system. This quality provides our submarine with advantage over any conventional submarine of the same type in duel. Taking into consideration the real combat abilities of the craft, determined also by stealthiness and hydroacoustics, the modern Russian submarine is able to prevail over "Virginia"...

Our 4th generation submarine carries 18 torpedoes or cruise missile, which can be replaced with 36 mines. It also can be used as transport for combat divers with their equipment.

In case with torpedoes (apparently our submarine carries or will carry USAT-80 noiseless electrical torpedoes or their modifications, as well as UGST modern smart multipurpose torpedoes that are to enter the service soon) the "Amur-1650" matches the world prototypes, but speaking of its missile load the Project-667 left far back the foreign submarines of the same class.


Unlike "Skorpena", equipped only with "Aczoset" tactical surface atack missile with the range of 50 km., the "Amur-1650" (as its predicators of 636 Project) possesses powerful missile weapons with tactical and prestrategic ranges. Its export version marked CLUB-S is able to destroy both underwater targets (protected with powerful AD/MD sys) and shore targets at a range of 300 km. Although the modification for our fleet which is not restricted by international agreements has much more superior figure in this respect.


The press mentioned the ability of the "Scorpena" to be equipped with tactical cruise missile, based on "Scalp" airbase cruise missile. This subsonic low-signature cruise missile mounted on version for France has a range of 400 km., but in case of export delivery this figure has to be cut to 300 because of international accords.

The "Asura" French supersonic antisubmarine missile which is under development now may become another prospect weaponry system of this craft. But like "Scalp" further development of this weapon is needed as well as its adapting to the submarine.

There is also a long term Project of providing Type-212 submarine with the "Polifem" multipurpose cable guidance missile system, designed to destroy antisubmarine helicopters, motor boats and small ships when submerged, as well as shore point targets at a range of 15 km.

Outboard conformal pack for 24 mines gives the "type 212" tactical advantage (to be proved on practice). But what will ban the consumer from using this equipment on single board "Amur-1650"?

As we can see, despite compatibility on a number of parameters (similar construction, low level of acoustic and magnet fields, powerful hydroacoustic equipment with large antennas, modern tactical data systems, standard displacement of 1450-1750 tons, underwater speed of 20-21 knots, operating depth of 300-350 m.), the "Amur-1650" and its rivals have fundamental differences which will certainly reflect in their combat effectiveness and success on the world markets.

To crown it all I would like to focus on the prospect of the Russian air independent power plant development for the 4th generation conventional submarine. For many experts it became clear enough that recently this issue had extend from technical field to business: more and more potential foreign consumers representing their departments of defense whose opinion is based not on their own researches, but on media based public opinion enhance their attention to the air independent engines.

That's why these new power plants (despite their obvious incompleteness) are considered to be binding condition of business success, feature of military, economical and even political capability of the country that builds and... procures ships like these and also index of weight of its military and industrial establishment.

We can remember from the history an example from the previous century: in 1903 the Russian "Ascold" scout ship (it was a five-funneled ship) going to the Far East, was being followed by the English "Diadem" ship visiting the same ports and receiving visits of the same sheiks and kings, who had seen the Russian scout ship before. Now then, the captain of the English ship specially built two false funnels made of the available material on the deck, thus transformed his four-funneled ship into six-funneled one. You can see some analogies, can't you?

It is important to mention, that attempts to charge the constructors of "Amur-1650" in cautioness in detecting the composition of the power plant were baseless: the composition of the Russian Project-677 submarine was initially constructed accounting the possibilities of upgrading it with auxiliary power plant with ECG! Prototype devices of this type equipped with low-temperature TE (liquid alkaline electrolytes, a gas-cylinder method of oxygen and hydrogen storage) was developed by the Leningrad Special Engineering Bureau of Boiler Construction (nowadays it is called JSC "SPBK", which is a part of FGUP "CNII SET") and was tested in 1988 on board the S-273 submarine (Project-613E Katran), that was specially reworked in Gorky city according to the project of "Lazurit". In 1991 the "Krystall-20" full-size power plant with ECG assigned for submarine passed the bench-top tests.


Moreover, by the beginning of the previous decade our country was the certain world leader in the field of power plants construction, based on fuel elements for submarines. But during the difficult for Russian science ant industry 1990s the world priorities were lost and the leading role in the ECG field was captured by the German specialists. Though slowly, with great difficulties and breaks that were conducted by the lack of funding, the works on anaerobic power plants in Russia were continued. The next step after the development of "Kristall-20" was power plant "Kristall-27" that appeared in the 21st century. It was provided with neutralizing matrix electrolytes, intermetallic system of hydrogen storage and cryogenic system of oxygen storage, that was designed for providing the power plant with capacity of 300 kw.

Under its "ideology" and basic specifications "Kristall-27" (it is conditionally refered to as the second generation of the ECG) is in general close to the German PP, which are used on the Project-212 submarines. This power plant is better than its German prototype in efficiency and well-worked basic support (it was achieved due to availability of good balanced conjugation of the autonomic coastal complex of fuelling with power plant, which made solving of a quite difficult problems of coastal basing of submarines with fuel elements easier), loosing it generally in only one position - the term of implementation. It provides self-sustained period under the water of 15 days, and while short-timed emerge on the periscope depths - of up to 45 days.

But Kristall-27 (like the German power plant), despite of all its potential advantages is basically an auxiliary power plant, that only complements, not removes traditional diesel-electric power plant.


Vladimir Ilyin

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 19 Jan 2010 20:19

U.S. Navy delays remote-controlled aircraft decision
The STUAS competition was inspired by the success of the video-camera-equipped ScanEagle remote-controlled aircraft flown from ships and over land by the Marine Corps. The 40-pound ScanEagles are operated by contractor field representatives, and now the services want a new aircraft that sailors and Marines can be trained to maintain and operate.
Insitu is proposing a larger version of ScanEagle called Integrator, but the company is facing stiff competition from leading unmanned aircraft builders.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 21 Jan 2010 14:49

$7000 million an AIP German built Dolphin sub.A useful figure to factor in for our second line.

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Securi ... 264025609/

Israel, Germany in sub deal negotiations
Published: Jan. 20, 2010 at 5:13 PM

ShareBERLIN, Jan. 20 (UPI) -- Israeli and German officials discussed military deals at a bilateral Cabinet meeting in Berlin, with a controversial sub order likely topping the agenda.

Israel has already ordered five submarines of the Dolphin class and is now looking to buy a sixth vessel for an estimated $700 million. Germany has helped fund all previous deals and Tel Aviv hopes that it will do so again.

For the historic bilateral Cabinet session Tuesday in Berlin, it was fitting that Defense Minister Ehud Barak arrived in the German capital even before Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu to sit down with his German counterpart Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg.

While officials did not comment directly on the Dolphin deal, experts are sure that it was discussed.

Ottfried Nassauer, director of the Berlin Information Center for trans-Atlantic Security, criticized the negotiations and previous sales, because the vessels could be used to identify targets in the Gaza Strip or armed with nuclear warheads.

"From what I know the German government does not want to fund the order with taxpayers' money again," Nassauer earlier this month told the foreign press corps in Berlin.

The expert added, however, that Israel might try to lure Berlin into the deal with a promise to order MEKO stealth corvettes from the Blohm und Voss shipyard in Hamburg. The German shipbuilding industry took a heavy hit from the global downturn and is in desperate need of orders.

Merkel Tuesday left all options on the table: When asked about further arms exports into the volatile Middle East, the chancellor replied that Germany's commitment to secure Israel's right to exist meant that "armament cooperation to safeguard Israel's future" could not be ruled out.

It would be a continuation of a long tradition.

Berlin has helped Israel pay for five previously ordered submarines.

The first two were a gift by Germany after it surfaced that German companies were involved with Iraq's chemical weapons program. Berlin paid for the first two subs with tax money and subsidized half of the third model.

When Israel decided to order two more subs, Berlin chipped in a third of those costs as well. Those two submarines -- No. 4 and No. 5 -- are currently under construction at the Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft shipyard in Kiel. Their delivery to Israel is scheduled for 2012. The vessels are upgraded versions of the original Dolphin and feature an air-independent propulsion system.

Israel now wants a sixth war sub, the financing of which is still up in the air.

The Dolphin-class submarines are among the most sophisticated and capable conventional submarines in the world. The 190-foot non-nuclear sub is based on the German 209 class but is larger and more heavily armed.

The subs can fire torpedoes, anti-ship missiles and mines.

The vessels are also believed to be capable of launching cruise missiles with a range of up to 930 miles that could be armed with nuclear warheads. A Dolphin-class submarine in a recent military exercise entered the Suez Canal together with an Egyptian escort, in a move that was widely interpreted as a warning to Iran.

HDW, owned by ThyssenKrupp and based in Kiel, is the largest shipyard in Germany. It has more than 2,400 employees.

Next Story: India orders Quantum Sniffer tech

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Gerard » 23 Jan 2010 03:37

Measuring The Chinese Fleet
January 21, 2010: The U.S. Navy accidentally posted their classified estimate on the size and composition of the Chinese Navy. This data was quickly taken down, but not before it was copied and posted worldwide.
The strength of the Chinese fleet was listed as

Submarines- 62.
(53 diesel Attack Submarines, six nuclear Attack Submarines, three nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarines)

Destroyers-26.

Frigates-48

Amphibious Ships 58

Coastal Patrol (Missile)- at least 80


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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 23 Jan 2010 10:20

Vietnam,Russia's latest top buyer of subs.

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Securi ... 264191998/

Vietnam tops Russia's arms client list
Published: Jan. 22, 2010 at 3:26 PM
ArticlePhotosListenVideosComments
Share HANOI, Vietnam, Jan. 22 (UPI) -- Vietnam is now officially Russia's biggest arms client thanks to recent orders for six Kilo-class submarines and 12 Su-30 fighter jets, according to a Moscow-based think tank.

Vietnam's deal for its first submarines is Russia's second-biggest contract for subs in the post-Soviet period, after a 2002 contract with China for eight submarines, said the independent Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies that monitors Russian military exports.

The analysis by CAST confirms what observers believed when the deal was signed during Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung's Dec. 15 visit to Moscow. Vietnam joins India, Algeria, Venezuela and China as Russia's top clients, according to an article on the Defense News Web site, which quotes the Russian news agency ITAR-Tass as the source.

The article did not, however, give any figures for sales to Vietnam.

Russia stands to make another $2 billion for maintenance and repair work, much of it carried out in Vietnam within new facilities at a naval base. Russia is also likely to construct a communications center, said CAST analyst Konstantin Makiyenko. The subs will be designed by the Rubin Central Design Bureau for Machine Engineering and built by the Admiralteiskiye Verfi shipyard, both in St. Petersburg.

The deal for the Su-30MK2 fighters, to be built at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur plant, comes on top of a previous 12-plane agreement signed in January 2009. Delivery starts later this year.

The two contracts have been a boost to Rosoboronexport, an official government arms exporter that cemented the deals. In a brief news article by the ITAR-Tass agency this week Anatoly Isaikin, chief executive officer of Rosoboronexport, was optimistic.

Despite the global financial crunch, Rosoboronexport's order book rose from $32 billion at the end of 2009 compared to $22 billion at the end of 2008. "The crisis hasn't prevented our major foreign clients from paying for the contracts, and there were no hitches in how Russia performs its export obligations," he said.

The submarine contract is being watched closely by Beijing, which sees Vietnam go from having no submarines to operating a dozen of one of the most sophisticated ships in its own back yard, the South China Sea, where there remains a small but niggling territorial dispute.

According to a report in the Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post, the deal for submarines and jet fighters -- Hanoi's biggest since the end of the Vietnam War 35 years ago -- reflects a widening belief in the region that "Beijing's vaunted show of soft power in the past decade" is taking on a harder edge.

"It comes as Australia, Indonesia and Malaysia seek to expand submarine programs amid concerns that the U.S. will gradually see its traditional naval dominance and influence across East Asia eroded by China's naval expansion."

In the same article, retired People's Liberation Army Gen. Xu Guangyu played down the Hanoi purchase. "It is not a surprise or a threat to China," he said. "Vietnam has a long coastline and we understand they need to upgrade their naval fleet. Maybe they feel urgency because of our own modernization program. Most navies in the region need to upgrade themselves and it's all perfectly understandable."

But the South China Morning Post article does point out the issue of the two "strategic" Paracel and Spratly island groups consisting of between 100 and 200 reefs, islets and islands, depending on tides.

China and Vietnam have had confrontations in the past. In March 1988 the Chinese navy fired on a group of Vietnamese sailors standing waist deep in water on a tiny reef, killing more than 60 and taking two prisoner.

"The islands sit above a seabed considered rich in oil and gas deposits. Beijing has repeatedly warned Vietnam and the Philippines against continuing oil exploration deals with overseas firms," the Post said. Beijing holds all of the Paracels after driving off the South Vietnamese navy in the closing days of the Vietnam war in 1974. Vietnam, meanwhile, occupies the most islands in the Spratly grouping.

"As tensions rise, Vietnam has been quietly attempting to internationalize the issue -- a move reflected in the latest deal with Russia and growing ties with the U.S."


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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Gerard » 24 Jan 2010 07:55

Nuclear Sub USS Los Angeles Decommissioned
After patrolling the oceans for 32 years, conducting all but one of her deployments in the Pacific Ocean, the nuclear attack submarine was decommissioned during a ceremony in San Pedro, said Lt. Cmdr. David Benham of the Pearl Harbor-based Pacific Submarine Force.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Gerard » 24 Jan 2010 18:32

Sub commander admits neglecting duty after grounding
The charge relates to the grounding of the nuclear-powered submarine HMS Superb on May 26 2008.
After her grounding Superb returned to Devonport where she was decommissioned.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 26 Jan 2010 14:07

Oz has only one Collins class sub operational.It is a sad commentary on what was first conceived to be the most capable conventional sub in the world.The Collins class,a development of a Kockum's design,was larger than conventional subs for longer endurance and extra sensors and weaponry.However,these modifications proved a failure and the subs were considered at one time "as noisy as an underwater rock concert".The subs also has a problem with their combat suite.The US was then roped in to resolve the design flaws and after spending a huge amount,including adding a "tusk" to their sails,resumed service,only to find that there were few trained crews to staff them.The situation grew so severe that a sub's chef was supposedly offered almost the equivalent of an Oz admiral's salary! An Oz maritime expert recently told me that the lack of skilled technicians was very acute in the industry and country.This is one area where actually Indian skilled labour could support Oz,but for the asinine racial attacks going on which are clouding relations.As two democracies,part of the Commonwealth,a source of raw material for India's growing economy,both countries threatened in the long term by China's massive military expansion,relations should be excellent.The govt. of Oz should re-examine their priorities and perhaps the future of the Oz sub fleet can be saved perhaps with a little help from India?

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/na ... 5823479313

Navy has only one working submarine left
Last edited by Gerard on 27 Jan 2010 05:25, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: copyright - text deleted

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 29 Jan 2010 05:33

Image
TWT Ampliers Help Boost Decoy Radar Reflectivity to Fool Enemy Missiles
Traveling wave tube (TWT) amplifiers are used to amplify radio signals to high power. They are commonly used by the US military in satellite transponders, radar, and electronic warfare systems.

The US Navy uses the TWT ampliers for electronic countermeasure (ECM) systems on aircraft. One application is to increase the radar reflectivity of a decoy deployed by an aircraft. The enhanced decoy fools an enemy surface-to-air or air-to-air missile into thinking that the decoy is the aircraft.

The Navy recently awarded a $13.2 million contract to small business qualifier dB Control to supply TWT ampliers for aircraft ECM systems…

Based in Fremont, CA, dB Control received a 5-year firm-fixed-fee, indefinite-delivery/ indefinite-quantity contract (N68936-10-D-0010) to produce up to 300 TWT amplifiers (500 watt and 2 watt) to be integrated into Navy ECM systems.

The TWT amplifiers will be integrated into the entire life cycle of Navy ECM systems, including rack-mount units used in laboratories and loop facilities during product development, airborne pods onboard manned aircraft, ground-based applications, testing and fleet training systems.

In addition to designing and producing the amplifiers at the company’s 40,000 square-foot facility, dB Control will also provide the Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division, China Lake, CA, with ongoing engineering, technical and repair support services.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 29 Jan 2010 05:36

Image
$202.7M to Raytheon for 196 Tomahawk Block IV Missiles
......
Block IV Tomahawk is the next generation of the Tomahawk family of cruise missiles, which began in the 1980s as nuclear strike weapons before being turned into long-range conventional attack missiles. Block IV is the latest variant, incorporating technologies to provide new, flexible operational capability while reducing acquisition, operations and lifecycle support costs. Raytheon began delivering upgraded Block IV missiles to the US Navy in mid-2004.
......

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 01 Feb 2010 01:36

Image
Israel Turns to Germany for Naval Stealth Ships
Israel is interested in acquiring two corvette size ships to extend its naval operational capabilities. After analyzing the U.S. Littoral Combat Ship (LCS), Israel decided these vessels would be too costly. While each LCS would have cost $480, Israel was prepared to spend up to $300 per ship, which roughly corresponds with what the Malaysian Navy spent on a similar design (MEKO A-100 Kedah class). Yet, an obstacle that could hinder the potential sale is the recent acquisition of Blohm + Voss Shipyards - the shipbuilder of the MEKO Class vessels - by the Abu Dhabi MAR Group of the United Arab Emirates.

Israel already deploys three medium size Saar V Eilat class corvettes, slated for an upgrade by 2011. The modernization will include the introduction of a new phased-array radar system and the replacement of current point defense missile systems with the Barak 8 extended air defense system. Fielding such new networked air defense capability will provide the Israeli surface fleet independence of air-cover for the first time, enabling the Israeli vessels to deploy further away from their shores.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby sumshyam » 02 Feb 2010 07:25

Chinese sub entered Taiwan waters: Report

[url]TAIPEI (TAIWAN): A Taiwanese newspaper has reported that a Chinese submarine entered Taiwan's territorial waters, but retreated after Taiwanese navel vessels set out to locate it.

Taiwan's defense ministry declined to comment on today's story in the United Evening News.

The newspaper says the incident occurred on Jan 27 when helicopters detected the presence of a submarine off the southern Taiwanese port of Kaohsiung during an exercise.

The newspaper says the sub left Taiwanese waters after the island's navy launched a search. It says it got to within 24 nautical miles of the port.

Taiwan and China split amid civil war in 1949. Beijing still claims Taiwan as its territory, and threatens to use force if the island moves to formalize its de facto independence. [/url]

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 03 Feb 2010 04:49

Cool Craft: US Navy to Buy Air Conditioners for Aircraft Electronics
Flying around in the deserts of the Middle East, where the daytime temperature can reach 110 degrees Fahrenheit, can take its toll on military aircraft’s electronics.

That is one of the reasons why the US Navy launched the Land-based Air Conditioner (LBAC) program, which is developing next-generation equipment to cool the electronics onboard US Navy and US Marine Corps aircraft when they return to base.

The Navy awarded a $21.4 million contract to JBT Corp. in Chicago, IL to produce 130 LBAC units and support equipment…

JBT AeroTech’s Jetway business unit developed and tested the LBAC unit over the past 2 years. The trailer-mounted unit is capable of cooling the electronic systems of the Navy and Marine Corps fleet of C-130 and C-40 transport aircraft, C-9 passenger jet, and P-8 and P-3 maritime patrol aircraft during ground operations and maintenance.

In addition to the Navy contract, JBT received a contract to supply trailer mounted air conditioning units to the US Air Force.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 05 Feb 2010 13:57

More on the unmanned frigate concept here.A nice video clip of Israel's unmanned USV,"Protector",for harbour and coastal surveillance.

Unmanned U.S. frigates to stalk submarines (w/ Video)
February 4, 2010 by Lin Edwards U.S. Navy combat ship Freedom (LCS 1).

(PhysOrg.com) -- In the U.S. the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) is planning to introduce unmanned frigates for long missions shadowing diesel-electric submarines.

The vessels, dubbed Anti-Submarine Warfare Continuous Trail Unmanned Vessels or ACTUVs, are designed to be unmanned, with only intermittent communication from operators on shore or on a ship, and to require no maintenance for months. They will also obey navigational rules and be able to avoid collisions at sea.

The three main objectives of the program are to build an “X-ship” that operates without anyone stepping aboard at any point in its operating cycle, secondly to demonstrate the technical viability of the system under “sparse remote supervisory control”, and thirdly to demonstrate the anti-submarine capability of the vessel and its “novel suite of sensors”. The ACTUV is unlike other unmanned vessels in that it is designed for global, independent deployment for months at a time.

Proponents claim crewless vessels would save the U.S. Navy money and free the expensive crewed ships from the routine work of continuously cruising the oceans shadowing submarines. The unmanned frigates would locate a submarine by “pinging’ with active sonar to detect the submarine’s echoes, which means those on the submarine would know they have been detected. While nuclear submarines may be fast enough to escape the stalking frigate, fast and quiet diesel-electric submarines would not.

Other unmanned vessels are already in use, with Israel deploying Unmanned Surface Vehicles (USVs), mainly for surveillance purposes, and the U.S. Navy deploying unmanned drones from its submarines.

DARPA is the research and development section of the U.S. Department of Defense, which is charged with the job of maintaining the U.S. military’s technological superiority and avoiding technological surprises that could threaten the nation’s security. It will host an unclassified “Industry Day” conference on the ACTUV program at the Liberty Conference Center in Arlington, Virginia on February 16 to discuss the program and address any questions.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 06 Feb 2010 13:14

Growing Chinese sub threat.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/ ... 00205.aspx

The Chinese Threat Below


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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby VijayKumarSinha » 08 Feb 2010 04:17

Report: Russian navy official says France has sanctioned warship sale to Moscow

A Russian naval official says France will allow the sale of an advanced warship to Russia, the Interfax news agency reported Saturday.
Possessing a Mistral would significantly increase the military's capability to mount offensives. France sent a Mistral, which weight 23,700 tons (21,500 metric tons) and is 980 feet (299 meters) long, to visit St. Petersburg last year in a clear sign of interest in a potential sale, which would be the first arms deal between a NATO country and Russia.

The Mistral can anchor in coastal waters and deploy troops on land, a capacity the Russian navy now lacks. Russia's navy chief said last year that a ship like the Mistral would have allowed the Russian navy to mount a much more efficient action in the Black Sea during the Georgia-Russia war. He said the French ship would take just 40 minutes to do the job that the Russian Black Sea Fleet vessels did in 26 hours.

The Mistral can also carry about 16 helicopters.


I was under the impression that the Russia doesn't buy a screw for its defence forces from outside, let alone a warship.
If the thing can carry 16 helicopters, its practically an aircraft carrier albeit for helicopters.

Whether the deal actually goes through or not, it is good news for establishing trust and friendly relations in between Russia and NATO. And, former CCCR states shouldn't get all squemish about it. They need to come to the understanding that it is them who need peaceful relations with Russia and not the other way round.

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Postby SRay » 08 Feb 2010 05:02

VijayKumarSinha wrote:I was under the impression that the Russia doesn't buy a screw for its defence forces from outside, let alone a warship. If the thing can carry 16 helicopters, its practically an aircraft carrier albeit for helicopters.


No kidding. Looking at the Mistral, its a helicarrier made for large scale amphibious assault alright. Not a minor purchase.


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