International Naval News & Discussion

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brar_w
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

Australia orders two additional Boeing P-8A Poseidons
The Commonwealth has announced that Australia will order an additional two Boeing P-8A Poseidon maritime ISR and response aircraft for the RAAF.

The two aircraft will add to the 12 P-8As already in service with the RAAF’s 11SQN at Edinburgh in Adelaide. The aircraft are two of the three options the RAAF was holding and which were required to be firmed up by the end of 2020. As long-lead production of the P-8A will soon begin to wind down, it is possible the final option will lapse.

The P-8A was ordered by the RAAF in 2014 under the Project Air 7000 Phase 2B manned maritime patrol aircraft requirement to replace the Lockheed AP-3C Orion in RAAF service, with an initial order for eight aircraft and four options. Australia had previously entered into a cooperative development program with the US Navy on the P-8A, allowing it to define requirements for the aircraft during development.

An additional four P-8As were ordered for the RAAF in 2016, while the three options were retained. The RAAF’s first P-8A made its maiden flight in May 2016 and, after being fitted with its mission systems, was handed over in Seattle in September 2016 before ferrying to Australia that November.

In RAAF and US Navy service, the P-8A will work closely with the unmanned Northrop Grumman MQ-4C Triton high altitude long endurance maritime ISR system for which Australia has a requirement of up to seven air vehicles.

“Together, the Poseidon and the Triton will provide Australia with one of the most advanced maritime patrol and response capabilities in the world,” Defence Minister Senator Linda Reynolds said in a December 30 statement. “The Poseidon is a proven capability that will conduct tasks including anti-submarine warfare, maritime and overland intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, and support to search and rescue missions.

“These additional aircraft will enhance Air Force’s flexibility to support multiple operations and will play an important role in ensuring Australia’s maritime region is secure for generations to come,” she added.

The RAAF’s P-8A achieved an initial operational capability (IOC) in March 2018 and was followed by the commissioning of a comprehensive pilot and maintenance training facility at Edinburgh. The RAAF’s 12th P-8A was delivered in December 2019.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

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Japan To Field New ASM-3A Long Range Supersonic Anti-Ship Missile


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On December 25, 2020, Japan's Ministry of Defense (MoD) announced that it would include the procurement cost of the new "ASM-3A" supersonic anti-ship missile in its defense budget request for fiscal year 2021.

The ASM-3A announcement was made as part of a broader announcement in which the MoD published the “Results of the Selection of New Critical Equipment“.

For the record, Japan started full-scale development of a missile called XASM-3 in FY2010 that can be operated by the Japan Air Self-Defense Force (航空自衛隊, Kōkū Jieitai or JASDF) F-2 fighter jets. The XASM-3 was an air-launched anti-ship missile (ASM) that cruised at supersonic speeds (above Mach 3) thanks to the combination of a solid rocket booster and ramjet engine. It had a range of about 200 km (108 nautical miles).

In 2017, a live-fire test was conducted using a decommissioned JMSDF vessel. The development was completed in 2018 and procurement would begin in fiscal year 2019 as ASM-3.

However, in order to respond to the increasing performance of air defense systems fitted aboard Chinese navy surface vessels, the actual procurement of the ASM-3 was postponed. It was decided to develop the ASM-3 (改). 改 stands for modified. This version is based on the ASM-3 and has an even longer range.

The Japanese MoD made awarded in 2020 a 8.9 billion yen ($85 million) contract to local defense company Mitsubishi Heavy Industries for the the development of ASM-3 (改). The development of the ASM-3 (改) will be carried out from FY2020 to FY2025.

In order to reduce costs and shorten the development period, the size of the main body will remain unchanged from the ASM-3, and the range will be extended by reducing the overall weight of the missile.


The ASM-3A, which mass production has just been announced, is said to be a missile that reflects the results of the development process of the ASM-3 (改), but its details are unknown. However, the development of the ASM-3 (改) has just started this year, and therefore it is thought that this missile may actually have a slightly extended range compared to the ASM-3.

It is important to note that the development of the ASM-3 (改) will continue even after the ASM-3A goes into mass production, thus the ASM-3A is considered to be a stop-gap solution to counter China’s naval threats.

Under current plans, the Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) will deploy three different types of modern anti-ship missiles:

the Joint Strike Missile (JSM) for the F-35,
the Long Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM) for the modernized F-15J/DJ fleet,
the extended-range ASM-3A for the F-2.
chola
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by chola »

Dee Turks dream very big! (If true.)

BTW, the Andalu suffered a fire and they won't get any F-35s from Unkil.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AceJacee/sta ... 5674042368
AceJace Flag of TurkeyFlag of Germany
@AceJacee
#Turkey/#Türkiye:

Erdogan and SSB CEO Prof Dr Ismail Demir said Turkey is working on making 3-4 Supercarrier‘s for Turkey after the TCG Anadolu/Trakya.

2027 will be the year due to TF-X Fighter being ready and have a Carrier Version.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

They will soon realize that going from powerpoint slides and cardboard mockups to actual design, and testing of 5GFA requires quite a bit of more work. Stirring up the program to sort of hedge against the embarrassment of being booted out of the JSF is one thing, but trying to claim that they'll not only create a land based but also a naval variant when they haven't even produced a supersonic combat aircraft till date is unlikely to be taken seriously. Even Russia only plans to produce 24 SU-57's by 2024 and just 70 odd by 2028. 5GFA is tough business. Both completing design, propulsion, sensors, and then creating a supply chain and setting up mass production. Even China hasn't really boosted its J-20 rates yet.

The Turks haven't even flown the Hurjet yet. And they want to leap into 5GFA and even naval 5GFA. :rotfl:
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by chola »

^^^ Well, Brar ji, they are aggressive in their vision. You have to give them that! Their drone industry after the Armenian/Azerbaijan conflict had proven that the Turks are no joke. And there were other signs too -- the T129 winning the Paki tender, the Anadolu being laid down only in 2018 and despite the fire is near finish and their MILGEM frigates which also won tender with the Pakis.

They have access to Western tech and make the best use of it. They are more like Korea in this aspect than any other ME country or even India for that matter.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

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chola wrote:^^^ Well, Brar ji, they are aggressive in their vision. You have to give them that!
It constitutes vision only to those who are gullible enough to drink the kook aid.

But if one applies this definition then, Iran is off the charts when it comes to "vision".

Image
chola wrote:They are more like Korea in this aspect than any other ME country or even India for that matter.
Really? India has operationally fielded a 4+ generation aircraft, landed a variant on the carrier, developed and fielded an AEW&C, SSBN, launches its own satellites and has a missile program that is right up there alongside the best in the world. Turkey hasn't even flown a trainer yet which, at one time, they claimed was mature enough to win the USAF T-X competition.

Let's get real here. Turkey's NATO taps are going to soon run dry. Russian partnership will always be measured. So don't expect some giant leaps coming from their industry like moving straight to a legitimate 5GFA by 2027. A lot of this is domestic PR to downplay the boot out of the F-35 program. There is no way they'll have something in that timeframe.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by chola »

brar_w wrote: Really? India has operationally fielded a 4+ generation aircraft, landed a variant on the carrier, developed and fielded an AEW&C, SSBN, launches its own satellites and has a missile program that is right up there alongside the best in the world. Turkey hasn't even flown a trainer yet which, at one time, they claimed was mature enough to win the USAF T-X competition.
Those are all indigenous efforts undertaken by Indians. Of course, India has a far bigger technical and industrial base.

I am talking about taking Western partnership and ToT and creating their own systems that they could own and export. The T129 and MILGEM programs are similar to the Korean experience with the Type 209 and the T/A-50. Unlike ours with the same Type 209.

Do I think they'll fly a true 5th gen no but I wouldn't bet the house against them getting something useful either. I think they have made good use of their access to Western tech.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

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chola wrote:I am talking about taking Western partnership and ToT and creating their own systems that they could own and export.
Turkey enjoyed a unique position with the West. It was and still is a member of NATO which is the premier western security partnership in the Atlantic and Europe. Much of their industry was closely integrated with the NATO industrial base. So it is a by-product of that much the same way others within NATO also collaborate.

But those taps look like they are about to dry up.
Do I think they'll fly a true 5th gen no but I wouldn't the house against them either.
Let them fly a trainer first. Let them integrate an engine into a 4+ generation aircraft let alone a 5th generation aircraft. One is free to bet for or against them. But in the real-world of technology development and system design you need to overcome some very basic challenges before you get to take those more complicated bites at fielding a system. This isn't about taking commercial non-mill grade systems and building a drone around them. Now days it is quite easy to design a stealth fighter as long as one wants to do CG or a cardboard mockup. Heck we have twitter folks who do all sort of CG with all sort of next gen weapons etc. But in the real world, when you bend metal you need a supply chain extending into hundreds of partners who all need to have some very high technology ready and able to deliver at scale. Technology around stealth, integrated avionics, material sciences to be compatible with stealth and supersonic flight, and umpteen other core competencies that don't reside in the commercial world and are military system specific.

This is very much about fielding a very high performance advanced combat aircraft and having the infrastructure required to support its development, testing and fielding. Even South Korea has a track record of design and operational success and a top notch aerospace company to back them up via offsets. But despite that, they are extremely cautious with their program and aren't even attempting a full blown 5GFA to start things off.

Turkey wants to go from incomplete trainer program that continues to have its flight delayed, straight to 5GFA. This is what they are claiming that they'll do in just a matter of 7 years (some aircraft on this image haven't even flown yet)

Image

One is free to lap it all up.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

brar_w wrote:They will soon realize that going from powerpoint slides and cardboard mockups to actual design, and testing of 5GFA requires quite a bit of more work. Stirring up the program to sort of hedge against the embarrassment of being booted out of the JSF is one thing, but trying to claim that they'll not only create a land based but also a naval variant when they haven't even produced a supersonic combat aircraft till date is unlikely to be taken seriously. Even Russia only plans to produce 24 SU-57's by 2024 and just 70 odd by 2028. 5GFA is tough business. Both completing design, propulsion, sensors, and then creating a supply chain and setting up mass production. Even China hasn't really boosted its J-20 rates yet.
Have the Turks been booted out of the F-35 program despite what congress and the president have said in public? Turkey is still a NATO ally and USAF operations still take place out of Incirlik. https://www.incirlik.af.mil/

IMHO, I see this falling out with Turkey as temporary. When Erdogan is gone or if they have a severe economic setback, the Turks may fall back into the western orbit. I suspect the incoming administration will try to reset with Turkey and may get access to the S-400 system. Turkey is already talking about discussion the acquisition of the S-400 with the US and NATO. They can acquire the F-35A and sell/lease their older F-16s to the PAF.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

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Mort Walker wrote:Have the Turks been booted out of the F-35 program despite what congress and the president have said in public?
Turkey is not getting any F-35's. The Congress has transferred both the six existing aircraft, and the ones that were in the supply chain, to the USAF. So yes, they are out of the program.
IMHO, I see this falling out with Turkey as temporary. When Erdogan is gone or if they have a severe economic setback, the Turks may fall back into the western orbit.
That is a possibility. But it doesn't change the fact that they are for now not partners in the program and aren't getting any aircraft. Their pilots were flying the aircraft and were asked to stop and were sent back. Those aircraft are now being transferred to the USAF. They've also lost access to the JPO and its safe to assume that their unique weapons aren't going to be part of the F-35 program.

Of course it could all be rolled back but that hasn't happened.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

^^^If they came back it would reduce the cost of the next lot. Let's see what happens in the coming year.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

Mort Walker wrote:^^^If they came back it would reduce the cost of the next lot. Let's see what happens in the coming year.
Loss of Turkish orders have already been offset by increases elsewhere (Japan and others). It is also not all about the cost of the "Next lot" (contracts for Lot 15 (they are currently producing lot 12) are already definitized with deliveries spoken for). It is about the Congress back-tracking on everything it has said and done vis-a-vis Turkey without any change in behavior for which they were removed from the program in the first place. But that is a hypothetical discussion and pointless for this thread. That Turkey is out of the F-35 program is a matter of fact and not an opinion.

Regarding the emergence of the T-X naval variant (which was what we were discussing), my point was that the all of a sudden appearance of a naval variant (when turkey hasn't even developed a clean sheet 4th generation land based aircraft let alone integrated a fast jet on a carrier) is clearly a ploy to spin up some PR after they were booted from the JSF. Turkey did not hold secret its plans to use the F-35B for naval operations. In fact it used to be a permanent fixture at their trade shows over the last few years.

Image
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

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By my count, this takes the global count of F-35B capable ships(operational or funded ) to around 11 - 4 currently capable in the US, 1 in construction and 1 being upgraded for 6 in total. 2 UK carriers, one Italian carrier, the Japanese Izumo and now this Korean ship. In the future, Spain, and Singapore could add to this tally and once the USMC is done buying its planned LHA's these ships will exceed the number of non F-35B carriers in terms of global count.

South Korea Officially Starts LPX-II Aircraft Carrier Program


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On 30 December 2020, details for South Korea's LPX-II light aircraft carrier were finalized and the necessary budget was officially allocated in the 2020~2024 Mid-Term Defense Plan

The information which was first reported by local media JoongAng Ilbo means that after about a year of preliminary planning and debate, the program is now officially underway. This ship is expected to enter service with the Republic of Korea (ROK) Navy in 2030.

As we previously reported, LPX-II will prioritize aircraft operation over amphibious operation and will have not have a well deck. It will also not feature ski-jump and will have two islands. Primary aircraft will be F-35B Lightning II and its sensor and weapon suite will be all indigenous. The ballistic missile defense (BMD) capable multi function radar (MFR) being developed for Korea’s nextgen destroyer (KDDX) will reportedly equip LPX-II.

Twin island design


The latest design of LPX-II was also unveiled on the occasion, showing a twin island arrangement which is likely the reflection of international cooperation.

In terms of foreign partners, US & UK government and firms are said to be involved. The US will transfer technology for reinforced deck as part of F-35B purchase while the UK has been providing technical and doctrinal advice. As we reported in October 2020, the UK Government and Babcock International, which led the Royal Navy Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier design process, « are said to be actively engaging with their South Korean counterparts ». This likely explains why the latest design of LPX-II shows two islands that look similar to those of the Royal Navy aircraft carriers. For the record, Babcock was already involved in the ROK Navy’s KSS-III large attack submarine program.

South Korean shipyard Hyundai Heavy Industries (HHI) was awarded a contract for the LPX-II conceptual design in October last year. The LPX-II project aims to build a new versatile large-deck landing ship for short take-off and vertical landing fighter jets.

HHI is expected to finish the conceptual design by the second half of 2020, with commissioning with Republic of Korea Navy planned for the early 2030s. The vessel, displacing around 40,000 tons (30,000 tons initially but recent DAPA references to the project mention the higher figure) would be based on the existing Dokdo-class amphibious assault ship (LPX-I project) but without a well deck according to the latest information. It would be able to accommodate around 20 F-35B STOVL fighters.


The LPX-II vessel will also deploy future Marine Attack Helicopters of the ROK Marine Corps, for which there is an upcoming competition between local company KAI (with the Surion MAH), Bell Helicopters (with the AH-1Z) and Boeing (with the AH-64 Apache). All three companies were showcasing their solutions at ADEX 2019.


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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

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South Korea Officially Starts LPX-II Aircraft Carrier Program

Image
The information which was first reported by local media JoongAng Ilbo means that after about a year of preliminary planning and debate, the program is now officially underway. This ship is expected to enter service with the Republic of Korea (ROK) Navy in 2030.

As we previously reported, LPX-II will prioritize aircraft operation over amphibious operation and will have not have a well deck. It will also not feature ski-jump and will have two islands. Primary aircraft will be F-35B Lightning II and its sensor and weapon suite will be all indigenous. The ballistic missile defense (BMD) capable multi function radar (MFR) being developed for Korea’s nextgen destroyer (KDDX) will reportedly equip LPX-II.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by vivek_ahuja »

Geez. Why? Why does South Korea need a carrier? Their coastline and offshore interests are limited enough?

Is this to show a middle finger to China on one hand and Japan on the other? The untermenshen of WW2 Japan overtaking their former oppressors?
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by m_saini »

vivek_ahuja wrote:
Geez. Why? Why does South Korea need a carrier? Their coastline and offshore interests are limited enough?

Is this to show a middle finger to China on one hand and Japan on the other? The untermenshen of WW2 Japan overtaking their former oppressors?
For now the reason given is "In order to protect sea lanes and overseas Korean interests". Doubtful the americans would let them use the 35Bs against japanese so most likely a middle finger to the chinis :mrgreen:
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by kvraghav »

^^^
They will probably build one and sell 3 to India which we will buy with folded hands.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

vivek_ahuja wrote:
Geez. Why? Why does South Korea need a carrier? Their coastline and offshore interests are limited enough?

Is this to show a middle finger to China on one hand and Japan on the other? The untermenshen of WW2 Japan overtaking their former oppressors?
A bit of all of those mentioned. Japan is outfitting the Izumo, so SoKo would like to build something bigger and better. China has the largest Navy in the world so that is probably also forcing them to see what a mix of fleet will look like if they were to have the need to protect their interests much farther away from their shores. It is also small enough for them to configure it for a myriad of missions with aircraft, or just with helicopters etc so even within their region it does provide a fairly decent flexibility in terms of naval operations. And it isn't like they are going to pack this with fighters, or add things like an arresting gear or catapults so overall incremental cost of operating fighters is likely to be manageable given the utility. They have AEGIS ships and are building their next generation of combatants so have the elements in place to build a fairly decent escort group or use the vessel to boost the capability of their combatants when their shore based aircraft can't. So a bit of a prestige thing mixed with a utility and flexibility for various contingencies in the 2030-2050 timeframe.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by Philip »

What I've been saying about our amphib reqs. and leveraging the design for multi-role capabilities. This light CV is based upon their Dokdo amphib without the well deck,using F-35s.As Brar has written,a decent flexibile capability for op. reqs.
Since we don't operate JSFs,unlikely if we keep buying Ru milware and do not plump for a 4th. gen.US legacy fighter for the IAF, we will have to operate NLCAs or 29Ks if poss. with an added ski-jump as in the JC class. If the US under Biden relaxes its sanctions regime it may be possible to acquire the F-35. After all to paraphrase Deng, " what difference does it make if the IN's aircraft come from Russia or France as long as they sink PLAN warships!"
Extra cost for extra eqpt. inevitable.
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Post by kit »

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... ft-carrier
The RoKN pointed out, however, that the latest conceptual design can be further revised during the basic and detailed designed stages.

A second image provided by the service shows the vessel, which is being acquired under the LPX-II Project, operating as part of a carrier group alongside what appear to be KSS-III-class submarines as well as KDX-2-, KDX-3 Batch II-, and KDDX-class destroyers, and a Soyang (AOE-II)-class logistics support ship.

The latest developments come after South Korean officials and defence researchers held their first meeting in late October 2020 to discuss the development of “core technologies” for the carrier. The country’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) announced at the time that a total of seven institutions and companies, including the Agency for Defense Development, Pusan National University, and LIG Nex1, would take part in the development process, which is expected to be completed by 2024.

As an example of core technologies, DAPA cited the planned development of coating materials to protect the flight deck of the 40,000-tonne carrier.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by kit »

vivek_ahuja wrote:
Geez. Why? Why does South Korea need a carrier? Their coastline and offshore interests are limited enough?
Doesnt it say something when some folks say India does not need a third carrier., putting into context India is a maritime nation , not a continental one ?
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

kvraghav wrote:^^^
They will probably build one and sell 3 to India which we will buy with folded hands.
Satya Vachan and would be a welcome addition as come 2025 our Babudom would still be guzzling chai biskoot and making notations on a committee's fact finding report on whether India should go for a 3rd aircraft carrier.
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Post by m_saini »

Imo the problem isn't the 3rd AC. The problem is the demand for a catobar where everything from the catapult, nuke reactor to the planes have to be imported and they aren't cheap. Also we'll never get the 35Bs that the SoKos will be operating.

They are very sensibly continuing the design of the Dokdo amphibs while we just want to throw away the experience of building Vik and go buy the fashionable stuff while having none of the required tech. TEDBF, too, isn't designed to use the catobar. And if I'm not wrong, this is what the
They will probably build one and sell 3 to India which we will buy with folded hands.
meant.

That while we bicker and long for the gold plated stuff, SoKo will just induct the indigenous carrier and sell a couple to use in the future. And we'll buy it happily because it's imported and hence equal to or better than a catobar.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by LakshmanPST »

m_saini wrote:TEDBF, too, isn't designed to use the catobar.
I think TEDBF is being designed for both STOBAR and CATOBAR operations...
It will not only replace the MIGs, but will be the future Air wing of IAC2 as well...
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by m_saini »

LakshmanPST wrote: I think TEDBF is being designed for both STOBAR and CATOBAR operations...
It will not only replace the MIGs, but will be the future Air wing of IAC2 as well...
I think it's only for STOBAR operations. Have never read otherwise and we don't have a catapult(even on land) to help in the development.

Indian Government Approval for TEDBF
The proposed aircraft requires a short take-off but arrested recovery (STOBAR) configured carrier which INS VIKRAMADITYA, and the soon to be inducted INS VIKRANT, are both fitted with.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

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Italian Navy Aircraft Carrier Cavour To Start F-35B Qualification Next Month


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The Italian Navy (Marina Militare) flagship, the aircraft carrier ITS Cavour, is set to reach Naval Station Norfolk in mid-February to start F-35B STOVL aircraft qualifications with the U.S. Marine Corps.

This was announced by Captain Gianfranco Vizzini, Naval Attaché at the Italian Embassy in Washington DC, during the Surface Navy Association (SNA) 2021 virtual Symposium.

“The major issue for 2021 is the ITS Cavour, our major carrier, that will be deployed here in the United States for what we have called ‘Ready for Operation Campaign’ that consists to achieve the qualification and to conduct joint and combined maritime operations by embarking F-35 Bravo air assets. The campaign will be executed in close cooperation with the U.S. Navy but especially U.S. Marine Corps. The unit is expected to arrive in Norfolk in a few weeks, actually half of February.”

The Italian Navy officer added that for the following six weeks (after its arrival in the United States), ITS Cavour will be trained by a USMC detachment that will be embarked, to become an aircraft carrier qualified with the F-35B.

“As you know, the Italian Navy has acquired a total of 15 F-35 Bravo that will be delivered to the Italian Navy in accordance with the company’s schedule. The next airplane will be actually delivered in April therefore it could be the first F-35 Bravo that will be embarked onboard the Italian carrier”

Following some verifications with various Italian sources, Naval News understands that the aircraft reference above by Captain Vizzini will be delivered in April in Italy and therefore will be the first Italian F-35B to land on ITS Cavour once the carrier is back in Mediterranean waters… meaning the aircraft used for the qualification campaign in the United States should all belong to the U.S. Marine Corps or Joint Program Office.

For the record, the aircraft carrier Cavour left the Arsenale Militare Marittimo (Maritime Military Arsenal) of Taranto in May 2020 after completing a 16 months refit and upgrade period to operate F-35B Joint Strike Fighters.

Technical interventions carried out on board the aircraft carrier included the overhaul of the flight deck with a new deck coating. This was necessary to limit the thermodynamic impacts when the F-35B STOVL (Short Take Off Vertical Landing) variant will take off and land. In addition to the structures, equipment and flight systems of the deck, the ship’s island compartments, hangar, equipment store, aviation fuel storage, data distribution network, sensors and electronics were also modified and upgraded. This was required for the integration and flight operation of the F-35B from ITS Cavour.

The Cavour upgrade phase started a month after the second Italian Navy’s F35B – individual registration code 4-02 – took off from the Cameri (Novara) Final Assembly and Check Out plant FACO to make its flight to the United States. The aircraft final destination was MCAS Beaufort, in South Carolina, where the aircraft joined the first F-35B (4-01) in supporting the training of the F-35B Italian pilots and technicians.

The Italian Navy ordered a total of 15 F-35B fighter jets. The Italian Air Force has the same amount on order (in addition to about 60 F-35A models).
Aditya G
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by Aditya G »

Philip sir may find this pic interesting;

MV Hartland Point carrying military equipment during the Royal Navy exercise Cougar 12

It's a quasi-military ship, a civilian spec ro-ro ferry.

Image
Philip
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by Philip »

Yes,the Falklands War was won logistically by STUFT." Ships Taken Up From Trade". Dozens of ro-ro vessels,assorted merchantmen, container ships ( the Atlantic Conveyor was sunk), carried the supplies that were required by the Adm.Sandy Woodward's Task Force.
It is a sheer disgrace that a historically renowned maritime nation like India has ignored its merchant fleet so much.We have just one ro-ro ferry,the new one that plies from Mazagon to Mandwa jetty taking passengers and their cars to Alibaug. For several years I used to take the PNP so-called " speedboat" which had an AC cabin when travelling to Alibaug. The ferry couldn't ply during the monsoon. The new ferry which can, is 30 years late in coming! Ro-ro ferries could operate on both seaboards v.successfully. A few years ago I had a project/ proposal for a ferry service using ro-ro vessels,but the finance was a problem.

Ro-ro vessels are essential for the ANC from the east coast major ports,one could even have a ferry service from the ANC to Indonesia,Malaysia,S'pore like the Meditt. ferries. Such vessels are used from Bilbao to Portsmouth, apart from the regular channel P&O and other ferries.I've even done the Aberdeen to Kirkwall ( Orkney islands- Scapa Flow) which takes over 8 hrs. Stranraer to Belfast by fast cat too. The Chins are massively expanding their merchant fleet too,essential for carrying their trade,for OBOR,etc. Ro-ro vessels would be a huge boon to thf nation's maritime coastal and fven international transport system,and a valuable asset during wartime.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

Leonardo Seaspray AESA Maritime Radar to be Integrated on GA-ASI MQ-9B SeaGuardian


Image
General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, Inc. (GA-ASI) is working with Leonardo to integrate the Leonardo Seaspray 7500E V2 radar into the centerline radar pod of its MQ-9B SeaGuardian remotely-piloted aircraft system (RPAS). The integration of this market-leading radar onto the SeaGuardian will enable persistent maritime ISR and is available to our international customer base.

GA-ASI’s MQ-9B is revolutionizing the long-endurance RPAS market by providing all-weather capability and compliance with STANAG-4671 (NATO airworthiness standard for Unmanned Aircraft Systems). These features, along with an operationally proven collision-avoidance radar, enables flexible operations in civil airspace. SeaGuardian has a multi-mode maritime surface-search radar with Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar (ISAR) imaging mode, an Automatic Identification System (AIS) receiver, and a High-Definition - Full-Motion Video sensor equipped with optical and infrared cameras. This sensor suite, augmented by automatic track correlation and anomaly-detection algorithms, enables real-time detection and identification of surface vessels over thousands of square nautical miles.

The Seaspray 7500E V2 radar is well-suited to the SeaGuardian mission set, using Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) technology to detect, track and classify hundreds of maritime contacts. The integration will also include an Open Mission Systems (OMS) approach, which enables the SeaGuardian and its sensor suite to offer operational and sustainment flexibility to end users.

Numerous countries use Leonardo Seaspray E-scan radars and the company has utilized operational feedback from these customers to expand and optimize the radar’s suite of advanced modes. These include Leonardo’s patented small target detection capability, allowing it to spot extremely difficult targets such as submarine periscopes and shipwrecked individuals at long range, even in very stormy seas. A key discriminator of Leonardo’s E-scan radars is their high reliability and fault tolerance that allows effective operation throughout a mission even if a number of individual radar modules fail.

The Seaspray greatly enhances the capabilities of the MQ-9B and builds on the already close working partnership between GA-ASI and Leonardo. Earlier this year GA-ASI announced the completion of initial integration work of Leonardo’s SAGE electronic surveillance unit onto the SeaGuardian, equipping the aircraft with the ability to gather intelligence information on maritime and land-based radar emitters over a wide area.

Customers will be able to choose from a wide assortment of sensors and payloads on the SeaGuardian platform, with both Seaspray and SAGE as off-the-shelf sensor options.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by ArjunPandit »

President Macron Announces Start of New French Nuclear Aircraft Carrier Program
French President Emmanuel Macron today officially green-lighted the construction of a new nuclear-powered aircraft carrier as part of the PANG program. The future flagship of the French Navy is intended to replace the existing FS Charles de Gaulle (R91) aircraft carrier around 2038.
planning started much before in advance!
Aditya G
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by Aditya G »

We have a patchy record of utilizing civil ships for military missions. A few I can think of;

- Op Rahat: Rescue of indian nationals from Yemen.

- Lease of MV Triton Liberty, a multi-purpose ship.

- IPKF de-induction

- Purchase of INS Nireekshak from ONGC. She has served very well.

Strangely, in recent Samudra Setu, we used LSTs and LPDs to rescue Indians. I guess there was some training value in bringing them back by ship, but aeroplanes would have been quicker and simpler from the evacuees perspective. At least, comforts of a civilian ferry ship could have been sought.
Philip wrote:Yes,the Falklands War was won logistically by STUFT." Ships Taken Up From Trade". Dozens of ro-ro vessels,assorted merchantmen, container ships ( the Atlantic Conveyor was sunk), carried the supplies that were required by the Adm.Sandy Woodward's Task Force.
It is a sheer disgrace that a historically renowned maritime nation like India has ignored its merchant fleet so much.We have just one ro-ro ferry,the new one that plies from Mazagon to Mandwa jetty taking passengers and their cars to Alibaug. For several years I used to take the PNP so-called " speedboat" which had an AC cabin when travelling to Alibaug. The ferry couldn't ply during the monsoon. The new ferry which can, is 30 years late in coming! Ro-ro ferries could operate on both seaboards v.successfully. A few years ago I had a project/ proposal for a ferry service using ro-ro vessels,but the finance was a problem.

Ro-ro vessels are essential for the ANC from the east coast major ports,one could even have a ferry service from the ANC to Indonesia,Malaysia,S'pore like the Meditt. ferries. Such vessels are used from Bilbao to Portsmouth, apart from the regular channel P&O and other ferries.I've even done the Aberdeen to Kirkwall ( Orkney islands- Scapa Flow) which takes over 8 hrs. Stranraer to Belfast by fast cat too. The Chins are massively expanding their merchant fleet too,essential for carrying their trade,for OBOR,etc. Ro-ro vessels would be a huge boon to thf nation's maritime coastal and fven international transport system,and a valuable asset during wartime.
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by Philip »

A Japanese Soryu class sub while surfacing hit a Hong Kong registered bulk carrier damaging its,sailplanes and commns. eqpt.It now can't dive or communicate.Strange how Japan's best sub class can't detect a huge noisy bulk carrier!
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by Prithwiraj »

Philip wrote:A Japanese Soryu class sub while surfacing hit a Hong Kong registered bulk carrier damaging its,sailplanes and commns. eqpt.It now can't dive or communicate.Strange how Japan's best sub class can't detect a huge noisy bulk carrier!
Was wondering the same.. it is the lead ship of Soryu class

Manish_P
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

^ 3 to 4 possible reasons...

Veteran Submariners Explain What Might Have Caused Japanese Submarine Collision
Looking at the available evidence, the same source thinks it plausible that the Soryu was submerged, but at a shallow depth. However, the submarine was far enough below the surface to make it impossible to use the periscope. Had the submarine been at periscope depth, it would have been hard to miss a bulk carrier like the Ocean Artemis visually, unless the periscope operator was completely negligent, since it was broad daylight and the weather was fairly good. The submariner notes that it looks like the periscope on Soryu is fully raised, suggesting that it did not directly impact the hull of the container ship. This leads to the assumption that the periscope could have been lowered at the time (or otherwise missed the hull). “Otherwise, it would be bent out of shape or sheered off completely (which may be true, because submarines tend to come with two periscopes for redundancy). Again, it is hard to say for sure, but if they were at periscope depth in broad daylight, they ought to have seen the container ship,” they explained.

In the opinion of our source, Ocean Artemis possibly came up from behind in the baffles — traditionally the sonar “blind spot” behind a submarine made famous during the “Crazy Ivan” set-piece sequence in The Hunt For Red October. Two different factors could have combined to ensure the submarine was not able to see the cargo ship. Firstly, the towed sonar array that could be used to detect the vessel above and behind would have been retracted, which is required in order for the submarine to surface. Second, the submarine has no aft-looking hull-mounted sonar, thus requiring frequent baffle clears — turns to “hear” behind the submarine using forward and side sonar arrays. With the submarine most likely heading in a northerly direction, the forward-looking and flank array sonars would have been biased toward the areas with the highest amount of surface traffic. This means the safety-of-ship sensors prioritize the areas with the most hazards, not out to the open ocean, which would not have helped with the Ocean Artemis probably bearing down on the submarine from the rear.

Coupled with that, having a big cargo ship like the Ocean Artemis approaching from the rear is also the worst case for hydrodynamic forces — Soryu might simply have been sucked up into the ship’s hull due to the Venturi effect. This is not an unknown phenomenon, by any means, and the same thing happened to the Los Angeles class nuclear-powered attack submarine USS Newport News in the south of the Strait of Hormuz in 2007. On that occasion, the submarine was pulled up and into the hull of the Japanese tanker Mogamigawa. The Newport News sustained damage to its bow and the commanding officer was relieved of their command.

The former U.S. Navy submariner also identified certain human factors that could have played a contributing role. The crew of the Soryu may have been fatigued or stressed, or there may have been overconfidence in their abilities, leading to complacency. In the demanding operational environment aboard a submarine, one highly stressful event may have led to a reduction in situational awareness. “These three behavioral characteristics are common in crews post-exercise,” the source notes.

There is also the possibility that the crew reading the sonar returns aboard the Soryu was unfamiliar with shallow-water acoustic propagation paths. Based on where the mishap occurred, the submarine was likely on the continental shelf, where propagation paths are very different compared to in deep water. As our source explains, “raw data between shallow and deep water can look identical, but mean very different things. i.e., they might have been accustomed to bottom-bounce acoustic signals but were in fact receiving direct path, if they had any signal at all. A direct path contact can be mistaken for a bottom bounce contact at 20 miles away… even to an experienced driver.” In this scenario, it’s suggested that a sonar return from the cargo ship was simply mistaken for a return from the seabed. The ex-U.S. Navy submariner does note, however, that the crews of diesel-electric submarines like the Soryu are typically more adept at shallow water operations than their nuclear-powered counterparts.

Lastly, the incident could have involved a simple collision on the surface of the water, despite it being in broad daylight. After all, “dumber things have happened.”
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by kit »

Interesting indeed !!. The giant hulk swallowing the teeny sub in its wake !..maybe there is a tactical or two to be learnt here !
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by NRao »

US admiral says Chinese military activity is rising in S China Sea
Chinese military activity in the South China Sea has risen “steadily” in recent months, according to the commander of the USS Nimitz.

Rear Admiral James Kirk said the US navy had seen an expansion of Chinese capabilities during the period that the Nimitz spent sailing through the South China Sea on an almost 10-month deployment. This included a rare joint aircraft carrier exercise with the USS Theodore Roosevelt.

“We’re seeing larger number of aircraft, larger number of ships available to the Chinese military being utilised on a daily basis. So the capacity has clearly increased,” Kirk told a small group of reporters via phone from aboard the Nimitz as the carrier was returning to the US west coast.

The joint drills by the Nimitz and Theodore Roosevelt marked only the third time since 2012 that two US aircraft carriers have undertaken joint training in the South China Sea.

The exercises came less than three weeks after the inauguration of President Joe Biden, who has signalled that China is the biggest challenge facing the US amid rising tensions that span military activity to human rights.

Rear Admiral Doug Verissimo, commander of the Theodore Roosevelt, and Kirk stressed in joint remarks that the drills were not aimed at any country. But Verissimo rejected suggestions in Chinese state media that the dual carrier exercises were merely symbolic and had no practical military purpose.

The admirals spoke two weeks after the Financial Times reported that Chinese warplanes entered Taiwan’s air defence zone and simulated an attack on the Theodore Roosevelt.

Kirk said China had conducted “routine” naval patrols during the US joint exercises. But he declined to say whether the navy viewed the activity near Taiwan as a simulated attack. Both admirals said that their carrier strike group ships had not witnessed any unprofessional behaviour by Chinese vessels — which has been an issue on occasion in recent years.

The US exercises followed a similar drill by the Nimitz and USS Ronald Reagan in the South China Sea last July. The increased naval presence in the area has made it the most visible staging ground for open military competition between China and the US.

There have been several instances of simultaneous military exercises in the South China Sea over the past year. Tensions have also mounted in adjacent waters and airspace, including a rapid rise in US military activity over the Bashi Channel, the strait that links the South China Sea and the Taiwan Strait to the western Pacific, and almost daily incursions by Chinese military aircraft into the south-western part of Taiwan’s air defence zone.

The USS John McCain sailed through the Taiwan Strait last week, sending a message that the Biden administration would continue to conduct operations in areas that frequently spark a sharp response from Beijing.

Verissimo said the US navy intended to work with partners in the region and was planning “many engagements” with allies.

France on Monday revealed that it had sent a nuclear attack submarine through the South China Sea. Florence Parly, the French defence minister, said the movement showed that France could operate far from home as part of an effort to work with its strategic partners the US, Japan and Australia.

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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by D.Mahesh »

chola wrote:...won't get any F-35s from Unkil.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AceJacee/sta ... 5674042368
AceJace Flag of TurkeyFlag of Germany
@AceJacee
#Turkey/#Türkiye:
Erdogan and SSB CEO Prof Dr Ismail Demir said Turkey is working on making 3-4 Supercarrier‘s for Turkey after...
This is a non-serious and/or stupid boast. Supercarriers? :rotfl: Even USSR did not manage one! Assuming of these Turkish Baths wuld make in one piece out of the Mediterranean
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

brar_w
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Re: International Naval News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

Italian Navy's aircraft carrier Cavour coming in to Norfolk Virginia (US) to begin her integration and certification activities with the F-35B. The ship has received flight deck, and other upgrades to prepare her for operating the F-35's and USMC pilots will begin integration in the next few days.

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LINK

LINK
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