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INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

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member_23370
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby member_23370 » 30 Mar 2015 19:09

Wasn't it sandeep unnithan's article in IT that in 2009 had the Arihant depicted as a mini Akula with a pod at the back? I am not sure if I completely believe anything in that article.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby rsingh » 30 Mar 2015 21:29

BTW Akula means Shark
Salam

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Cosmo_R » 31 Mar 2015 00:16

rsingh wrote:BTW Akula means Shark
Salam


In Russian perhaps but in Sanskrit

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 6041401033

Also, the second Akula they are thinking about leasing is actually codenamed Lotakash :) ^^

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby nevin » 31 Mar 2015 08:16

^^ sub's name is 'kashalot' - sounds as cash-a-lot.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby member_28840 » 31 Mar 2015 08:22

nevin wrote:^^ sub's name is 'kashalot' - sounds as cash-a-lot.


Oh you can be sure we will be paying through the nose. Friendship prices don't mean what they used to anymore. Now friendship price is the price you pay for someone for them to continue being your friend.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby DexterM » 31 Mar 2015 09:44

Cosmo_R wrote:
rsingh wrote:BTW Akula means Shark
Salam


In Russian perhaps but in Sanskrit

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 6041401033

Also, the second Akula they are thinking about leasing is actually codenamed Lotakash :) ^^

Admins, sorry for the OT:
Shiva, from the Akulavira Tantra
Akula, as Bagchi points out, is Shiva, the witness while Kula is Shakti, the cluster of energies.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby arun » 20 Apr 2015 11:36

CNS Adm. Robin Dhowan during interview by Rahul Singh for Hindustan Times discloses that Arihant’s sea trials are “proceeding satisfactorily” and it is the intention to carry out weapon trials this year:

What is the status of the indigenous nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine, INS Arihant?

It is currently undergoing sea trials and these are proceeding satisfactorily. The intention is to carry out weapon trials this year. But I would not like to set a deadline for the submarine to take up deterrent patrols.


From here:

Priority is to ensure we are combat-ready: Navy chief

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby wig » 30 Apr 2015 15:04

naval Chief says ‘extremely satisfied’ with the progress of the ongoing sea trials of the indigenous nuclear attack submarine INS Arihant.
Indian Navy Chief Admiral RK Dhowan said: “We are extremely satisfied. The project is progressing very well”. He was speaking to the media on the sidelines of a naval aviation seminar.
On being asked if the project was facing any hurdles and whether there could be a definite date for the 6,000-tonne submarine to go on a ‘deterrence patrol’, the Admiral said: “There is no problem with the project. Trials of the Arihant are currently underway, but I cannot give a timeline and say what happens thereafter.”
A nuclear submarine is militarily considered to be one of the most potent second-strike platforms for retaliation to a nuclear strike. India has a no-first-use nuclear policy and a submarine of deterrence patrol can retaliate within seconds while remaining under sea.
During Cold War, the US and USSR kept their submarines on deterrence patrols — ready to fire within seconds of a nuclear strike by the adversary. Unlike conventional vessels, a nuclear-powered submarine does not need to surface for up to nearly two months in contrast to conventional submarines.
Sea trials of the Arihant started in December last year and are expected to last a few more months. The sea trials will eventually include diving trials, followed by undersea firing of nuclear-tipped missiles. The vessel, powered by an 83 Mwe pressurised water reactor, is slated for induction by 2016. Its reactor was developed by the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, with assistance from a Russian design team. It uses enriched uranium as fuel and light water as coolant and moderator. The submarine has nearly 60 per cent local content.
Once inducted, it will complete the nuclear triad, which means attaining the capability to fire nuclear missiles from land, air and sea.
On building a second seaborne aircraft carrier, Admiral Dhowan said: “We have done an approach paper on the type of carrier, its propulsion and the aircraft it will carry. The case will be taken up with the Ministry of Defence and thereafter a detailed project report will be prepared

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 74351.html

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby sudhan » 15 May 2015 03:56

Look like our baby boomer(s) are being busy bees.. Pliss to refer to chacha maps.. and compare with pictures in prev page.. Looks like new sheds have come up around this area..

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Cosmo_R » 15 May 2015 05:17

nevin wrote:^^ sub's name is 'kashalot' - sounds as cash-a-lot.


Or, lot of cash :)

Friendship is expensive :)

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby dinesha » 15 May 2015 12:11

Image
Imagery Date 02/03/2015

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Kanson » 15 May 2015 15:17

Bheeshma wrote:The beam is also about 11m. There is no way that beast only carries 4 VLS tubes. Even the garbage like Xia with 10 m beam had 2 rows of 6 JL-1's. Same with the french Redoubtable class.

Sir,
1. Xia and Redoubtable are old design concepts while new paradigm in this could be different, gained from the experience, which calls for reduced missiles.
2. Size of the missile matters. smaller the missile more the numbers; two rows possible for similar sub size.
In 2005, then finance minister P. Chidambaram, a member of the apex political committee steering the classified project, wondered why the Arihant, costing over a billion dollars (Rs 6,200 crore), carried only four missiles. The project team doubled the missile load on three subsequent vessels.

3. There was a pic that shows how 8 silos were assembled for subsequent SSBN following Arihant - not in straight line with side by side placement as seen in Xia/Jin but in zigzag fashion - I guess it is due to narrow spine as singha mentioned - as per new design perhaps.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby ramana » 24 Sep 2015 03:16

I think the Arihant is being delayed until both the missiles are ready: K-15 & K4. Otherwise doesn't make sense for such long sea trials.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby member_23370 » 24 Sep 2015 04:01

True. No use of a SSBN with 1500-2000 km SLBM. Hopefully K-4/5 will be integrated into it soon.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby member_27581 » 24 Sep 2015 06:32

Ramana Sir,

This was posted in Indian missiles by Karthik

http://armingindia.com/Nuclear%20Triad% ... Closet.htm

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6806&start=3800

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Yagnasri » 24 Sep 2015 08:16

Are they already launched 2nd & 3rd subs without any fanfare? Suddenly we are not reading anything about how their building etc is progressing.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Philip » 25 Sep 2015 12:14

Our sea-based deterrent can't be built up even in a few years time.The USN,Russia have had decades of experience. Even the PLAN is only now from reports going to send out an SSBN on patrol which will target the US,though they have possessed SSBNs for a long time. I think that it is only around 2020 before we have around 3 SSBNs "operational" in the true sense of the word. Eventually 3 SSBNs available at all times out of a total of 5/6,with 3X8/12 China specific ICBMs with at least 3 MIRV warheads ,would give 72-108 warheads.This should be a sufficient deterrent for both China and Pak. ,as they would be complemented with mobile road/rail missiles and air-launched stand-off nuke tipped missiles like BMos,Nirbhay. The Akula SSGNs and the 6 planned SSNs to be locally built ,could also carry nuke warheads on the Nirbhay and BMos missiles aboard.Once the Hyper-BMos is developed,it will surely be the vehicle for more N-warheads.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby kit » 25 Sep 2015 13:57

india would surely need to double the number of its deployed nuclear warheads by the time these boomers start patrols inside of a decade

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 25 Sep 2015 15:27

US seems to have lost track on our current pace of warhead production, so the fishing reports periodically saying india has << number of warheads than paks , hoping that a 'offended' indian govt will authorize someone to clear it via media leak.

so far delhi has not fallen for the bait.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby kit » 25 Sep 2015 16:54

Singha wrote:US seems to have lost track on our current pace of warhead production, so the fishing reports periodically saying india has << number of warheads than paks , hoping that a 'offended' indian govt will authorize someone to clear it via media leak.

so far delhi has not fallen for the bait.


makes sense :mrgreen: India is a very responsible nation ..no need to scare peoples unnecessarily :mrgreen:..could very well be the 3rd or 4th largest arsenal !

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby srin » 25 Sep 2015 17:03

Philip wrote:Our sea-based deterrent can't be built up even in a few years time.The USN,Russia have had decades of experience. Even the PLAN is only now from reports going to send out an SSBN on patrol which will target the US,though they have possessed SSBNs for a long time. I think that it is only around 2020 before we have around 3 SSBNs "operational" in the true sense of the word. Eventually 3 SSBNs available at all times out of a total of 5/6,with 3X8/12 China specific ICBMs with at least 3 MIRV warheads ,would give 72-108 warheads.This should be a sufficient deterrent for both China and Pak. ,as they would be complemented with mobile road/rail missiles and air-launched stand-off nuke tipped missiles like BMos,Nirbhay. The Akula SSGNs and the 6 planned SSNs to be locally built ,could also carry nuke warheads on the Nirbhay and BMos missiles aboard.Once the Hyper-BMos is developed,it will surely be the vehicle for more N-warheads.


Akula SSGNs ? And SSNs having nukes and designated as SSBNs ? How many missiles can they have ?

I donno - it's like designating a Sukanya class OPV a helicopter carrier because it can carry a helicopter.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Paul » 26 Sep 2015 09:15

TDK would have sent all AEC files to Chanakya puri. It is facile to assume Uncle did not get this info in 10 years of UPA misrule

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Philip » 28 Sep 2015 16:46

Srin,the Akulas have a 40 weapons payload.If we deploy a small weaponload of Nirbhays with N-warheads,they could be very useful in a second strike deployment to deal with Pak. This is not the main priority of an SSGN,but they do have useful bonuses. A reverse of the USS Ohio class SSBN,converted from a BM into an SSGN filled with dozens of Tomahawks. Usually,Akulas come with two tube sizes (Chakra reportedly has only 533mm ones),even Israel's Dolphins have two sizes for their N-tipped cruise missiles.The larger 650mm tubes could accommodate a larger diameter sub-launched missile.These N-cruise missiles could/will have ranges from 1500km to 2000+km.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 28 Sep 2015 17:05

russia has fielded n-tipped version of the SS-N-21, for us it might be a useful small knife under the lungi to keep around , for supplementing efforts of ballistic missiles. but it cannot be the prime knife.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Yagnasri » 28 Sep 2015 17:22

A Samurai always carry two swords, one long and one short. :D

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby JTull » 28 Sep 2015 17:46

Yagnasri wrote:A Samurai always carry two swords, one long and one short. :D


Almost a haiku!

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby member_28108 » 11 Oct 2015 17:01

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/505801/indigenous-nuclear-submarine-undergo-missile.html

Indigenous nuclear submarine to undergo missile firing tests
New Delhi, Oct 11, 2015, PTI:
India plans to build at least two more Arihant-class submarines. India had started building Arihant in the 1990s under its highly secretive ATV (Advanced Technology Vessel) programme. DH file photo
India's first indegenously developed nuclear submarine Arihant, which has "successfully" completed the sea trials held so far, will undergo its maiden missile firing test this month, top defence sources said.

The aim is to handover the submarine to the Indian Navy during the International Fleet Review scheduled in February next year in Vishakapatnam, they said.

"The tests held so far has been successful. We will, this month, fire Nirbhay missile from the submarine which will be followed by firing of another type of missile," the sources said.

While Nirbhay is a 1000-km-long range subsonic cruise missile, the next missile would be India's first Subamrine Launched Ballistic Missile (SLBM), which has a range of about 700 kms. These would be followed by another few rounds of tests.

India plans to build at least two more Arihant-class submarines. India had started building Arihant in the 1990s under its highly secretive ATV (Advanced Technology Vessel) programme.

Though Arihant was initially supposed to be a fast-attack submarine, the project was realingned to make it a ballistic missile submarine following the nuclear test conducted by India in 1998.

After its launch in 2009, Arihant went through extensive tests including harbour acceptance trials with the on-board reactor going critical in 2013. It left the harbour for its sea trials in December 2014.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Bade » 11 Oct 2015 17:26

Why only two, we probably need 10 more. The two were already sanctioned ones being built and in advanced stages of construction. So this is old news.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Yagnasri » 11 Oct 2015 18:35

We do not here anything about the second unit or the third one for a long time.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby member_28108 » 11 Oct 2015 18:40

Why only three because we are still in the process of validating the technology -I think by now the third would also have been built.(We know the second one was already in the construction phase when it was inadvertently " mentioned). The follow on submarines which may be bigger may already be in the drawing boards. For all you know the ejection tests may already have been done.Generally with this missile vessel combo whatever is mentioned is typically released much later after validation! The whole project is so opaque for a reason.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby BharadwajV » 11 Oct 2015 19:54

prasannasimha wrote:http://www.deccanherald.com/content/505801/indigenous-nuclear-submarine-undergo-missile.html
"The tests held so far has been successful. We will, this month, fire Nirbhay missile from the submarine which will be followed by firing of another type of missile," the sources said.

Great news!
Arihant getting the best desi weapons suite yet!
Nirbhay-Saagarika(K15)-K4

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 11 Oct 2015 21:18

Let's hope it is K4

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby ramana » 11 Oct 2015 22:31

Am re-opening so a few more posts can me made here.

So we know Nirbhay and another missile to be launched fromM Arihant.

Is Nirbhay from vertical launch tube or what?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Cosmo_R » 12 Oct 2015 03:22

ramana wrote:Am re-opening so a few more posts can me made here.

So we know Nirbhay and another missile to be launched fromM Arihant.

Is Nirbhay from vertical launch tube or what?


Almost has to be unless it carries both Nirbhay and A4 with the former launched through topredo tubes and the latter via VLS

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 12 Oct 2015 07:29

iirc nirbhay is designed to be launched from 21" TT but its testing from underwater pontoon so far might be only in VL mode. its air scoop is recessed, wings folding...it comes out of water with nothing sticking out.

TT launch would be far better as every sub in the IN could use it...hence every sub could carry our 2ndary deterrence in a way.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Philip » 12 Oct 2015 11:02

I think that it is more likely that Nirbhay will be launched from the tubes.The K-15/4 whatever from the silos. Both methods have to be validated before the sub is commissioned.The target is to commission the sub before next year's naval review so it could take part.Launching Nirbhay from the Arihant through tubes will mean another milestone,as the missile could then enter service with our existing conventional subs too! Kilos can already launch Klubs,why not Nirbhay? The German U-boats are to be modified to carry Harpoon,one done Nirbhay could be carried by them too.Scorps will come Exocet armed,so should be Nirb. capable too.It is only BMos that the smaller tubes of our existing subs cannot launch.Bmos_ when it arrives should rectify that.But that will take a few years to develop and perfect.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 12 Oct 2015 11:17

UK trafalgar subs have been launching TLAMs from TT since the 80s. the Akulas too for the SS-N-21. even the INS Chakra's original fit had some SLCM. its a well understood tech by the major powers.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby srai » 12 Oct 2015 11:31

Anyone know how many Nirbhay can be carried by Arihant mini-SSBN in its four VL silos? I'm assuming it would be similar to K-15 with three per silo. That would mean 12 Nirbhay SLCM with ~1200km land strike range. A lot of options between K-15, Nirbhay and K-4.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 12 Oct 2015 11:46

i really wish we had 8 silos though. hope the Aridaman has more silos. 4 could be kept for K4 and rest 12 smaller tubes to play with for nirbhay or k15 or even brahmos. also the arihant TT room would be sized for around 30 weapons if its 688 class tonnage ship. thats plenty of room to pack in more nirbhay even if it is 20, could keep 6 for HWT self defence and 14 nirbhays.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Philip » 12 Oct 2015 16:59

This excpt. from an ET report provides the key clue as to the Arihant's design,peculiar for an SSBN.
Though Arihant was initially supposed to be a fast-attack submarine, the project was realingned to make it a ballistic missile submarine following the nuclear test conducted by India in 1998.

After its launch in 2009, Arihant went through extensive tests including harbour acceptance trials with the on-board reactor going critical in 2013. It left the harbour for its sea trials in December 2014.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst


This means that the initial; design was tweaked with a higher "hump" to accommodate the larger ,lengthier K-15/4 missiles.The boat may even have been slightly smaller why the top speed is given as only 25kts,as generally an SSN can travel at 30kts.The reactor would've bene designed for the SSN not for an SSBN. It also explains why the ATV/Arihant design can easily be tweaked into an SSN/SSGN boat,but may need more detailing to accommodate newer sub tech ,weaponry,sonars,UUVs,etc.


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