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INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

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JTull
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby JTull » 12 Oct 2015 17:06

Nirbhay launch from Arhant doesn't make sense. So far none of the reports suggest that has been tested from VL pontoon or a TT test bed. So after only 2 tests so far, how can it be the first missile to be fired from Arihant.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby soumik » 12 Oct 2015 19:37

JTull wrote:Nirbhay launch from Arhant doesn't make sense. So far none of the reports suggest that has been tested from VL pontoon or a TT test bed. So after only 2 tests so far, how can it be the first missile to be fired from Arihant.


It seems Nirbhay has been tested more times and validated more times than has caught our collective eyes!

member_22539
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby member_22539 » 12 Oct 2015 19:44

^I have always felt that to be true. Frankly, the failure on the "first" test seemed to have surprised the scientists more than anything, like they didn't expect it at that juncture. Later, they expressed their relief and happiness finding out the problematic part and swapping it out for something more reliable, almost as if they didn't expect further large hurdles. Anyway, just my humble opinion.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Aditya G » 12 Oct 2015 23:51

JTull wrote:Nirbhay launch from Arhant doesn't make sense. So far none of the reports suggest that has been tested from VL pontoon or a TT test bed. So after only 2 tests so far, how can it be the first missile to be fired from Arihant.


Arihant, our first nuclear submarine, happens to be our first submarine as well. That explains why she is going to be the first to test the Nirbhay. But you are right, we haven't heard about any Pontoon launches either.

Let's accept the possibility may be that Nirbhay testing is hot air.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Prasad » 13 Oct 2015 00:22

Or that we've had pontoon tests of the nirbhay after the first 2 public ones.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby fanne » 13 Oct 2015 04:46

Nirbhay not being ballistic missile does not have to informed to anyone while being tested.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby JTull » 13 Oct 2015 16:21

All news articles, even the new ones about the next Nirbhay test on Thursday, mention that naval and air force variants will also be developed (as in future).

Only comparable situation was that of Sagarika, where the tests were confirmed in official press release at the time of it's coming out party. No such info on Nirbhay.

Even Brahmos had been tested from pontoon and well reported.

And if Nirbhay is infact a TT launch then platforms other than Arihant can also be used.

In fact, the NOTAM for tests on 30-Sep - 2-Oct, the story of GoI forced postponement of tests, story of Agni tests, Thursday's Nirbhay land-attack version test and Arihant tests seem to have confused DDM into cooking up this story.

I'd prefer Sagarika and K-4 to be tested from Arihant first as that is on the critical path to the triad. Everything else can wait.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 13 Oct 2015 18:23

i read today the first 3 borei have been done using incomplete Akula hulls. the 4th on onwards will be a new design Borei2.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby sheshp » 13 Oct 2015 22:08

Updates on The INS Arihant on "Defense Industry Daily"

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/in ... ect-04374/

Watch the first video : https://www.youtube.com/embed/s7vTfM3rs ... ransparent

The report says Brahmos Operational Range as 350 KM (@4:12). How correct is that?? Also , good update on missile test and plans.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby member_23370 » 13 Oct 2015 22:11

Thats a fan boy video. I wouldn't read much into it.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Rahul M » 13 Oct 2015 22:26

new thread please.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SaiK » 08 Jan 2018 01:17

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/i ... epage=true

I think that pic is wrong.
Why should DoM respond to Hindu on classified data?
It is always Indian fabrication issue or media frabrication

rest is blah blah

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby sum » 08 Jan 2018 08:00

All the initial niggles mentioned arent surprising but being stuck in harbour for 10 months is some bad news.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Philip » 08 Jan 2018 08:37

The Hindu is usually v.accurate when reporting on defence matters.It cites its sources as being naval .
Glitches reg.Ru supplied design and Indian made components are par for the course for the first sub.Arighat sub two has been launched so glitches hopefully attended to.The fact that both our N-subs suffered accidents due to human error speaks poorly of the IN's operational/handling skills which in some areas have improved.

In the case of the Scorpenes, was talking just days ago with one in the know, we wanted all 6 built in India, hence the delay given our long build time for 2 U-boats, 8 yrs+! First two boats are virtually French boats assembled here.V.little Desi content.Will increase in later boats.But huge delays again in this programme too.Let's hope that the Arihant returns to duty asap.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby chola » 08 Jan 2018 09:01

Crap. I was hoping the DDM mistook the Chakra sonar accident for the Arihant. But sounds pretty serious.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby ramdas » 08 Jan 2018 09:04

why is the media being allowed to leak all sorts of sensitive information that helps our adversaries ? Time these journalists face serious consequences for their treason. at the very least they should be arrested and their release should be made very difficult...

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby ramana » 08 Jan 2018 09:11

Ramdas, Dinaker Peri is a good guy. I think the naval sources wanted to publish the story.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby ramana » 08 Jan 2018 09:11

Please keep the thread open till we know more.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Cain Marko » 08 Jan 2018 09:47

Are Indias woes and niggles the reason for the dekko at French barracuda? It is not very easy to operationalize a nuke boat but good things come to those with patience. so, persevere they must.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby sum » 08 Jan 2018 10:10

^^ 400% no doubt in that and the perseverance will bear fruit.

Having both N-subs damaged while in operation should ring alarm bells about the SOPs in the submarine arm and hopefully, things are fully ironed out by the time the naval arm of the N-triad is fully ready and operational

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Philip » 08 Jan 2018 10:25

A good look at the Barracuda becos apart from our interest, the OZ large AIP subs are based upon the Barracuda.Good to know what the competition is getting.Never reject an offer of a visit.France is hoping that it can leverage something further out of the Scorpene programme with the 6 SSNs, but their costs are v.high even for conv. boats.Look at the huge costs for Oz's French subs, almost the same per sub as the Chakra lease.The first ATV has cost us approx.$2B+ according to the reports.


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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby ashish raval » 08 Jan 2018 13:20

Gurus, what is the issue with building indegeneos diesel electric sub if we can build nuke powered sub? An engine? Surely that can be imported and systems built around it and later around local engine in future.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Philip » 08 Jan 2018 17:57

She's back in action,says this report!
Nuclear Submarine INS Arihant Back in Action After Damage in Propulsion Chamber
Updated: January 8, 2018 2:07 PM IST

Indian Navy’s Indigenous Nuclear Submarine INS Arihant Back in Action After Suffering Damages in Propulsion Chamber
New Delhi, Jan 8: India’s first indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant is back in action after being crippled for the last several months following a major damage which resulted in water entering the warship’s propulsion chamber. Almost 10 months ago a possible human error led to water entering Ship Submersible Ballistic Nuclear (SSBN) INS Arihant’s propulsion chamber rendering it unfit to sail.

Navy officials say the accident took place when INS Arihant was reportedly at Vishakhapatnam harbour. The damaged pipes and other instruments were replaced to make the warship operational again. The incident came to light just a few weeks after the Navy admitted nuclear submarine INS Chakra’s SONAR, known as the eyes and ears of a submarine in the water, was damaged in early October 2016 after either hit something or while docking at Vishakhapatnam. INS Chakra, a nuclear-powered Akula II class Nerpa submarine, was taken on a 10-year lease from Russia in 2012.

INS Arihant was commissioned into Indian Navy in August 2016 and completed India’s nuclear triad. The submarine will carry either 12 nuclear-tipped 750-km range K-15 Sagarika short range Sea Launched Ballistic Missiles (SLBMs) or four 3500-km range K4 SLBMs, which can be fired from four vertical launch tubes. The 112-metre log, 6,000-tonne INS Arihant is powered by a 83 MW pressurised light water reactor and has been built under the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) project at the Ship Building Centre in Visakhapatnam, one of the key bases of Indian Navy.

India joined a select group of five nations – USA, Russia, China, France and the UK – to build and operate a SSBN with the commissioning of INS Arihant. The second SSBN under ATV project, INS Aridhaman, is undergoing sea trials. The submarine will be commissioned into the Navy only by 2019 and its nuclear reactor will go critical only after sea trials.

India is already building two more SSBNs under the ATV project which have more advanced features and weapons systems giving the Navy blue water capabili

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Will » 08 Jan 2018 21:34

I think the sabotage angle should be probed deeply. Its not normal to have so many sub accidents. Its easy to pass it off as human error. This is sounding more like the news of unnatural deaths of a number of nuclear scientists and other personal involved in defence research and construction. Remember that many powers, including the ones considered to be friends, would like to limit India's growth to great power status.
Last edited by Will on 08 Jan 2018 21:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SaiK » 08 Jan 2018 21:47

Yeah.. this is another corroboration

https://theprint.in/2018/01/08/indias-o ... water/amp/
The sources said that the Arihant, which has faced technological problems in the past had an incident in late-2016 after water ingress while it was stationed at Visakhapatnam.

An aft hatch of the submarine is learnt to have been left accidentally open, leading to ingress of sea water into the vessel. The water impacted the secondary loop which transfers power from the reactor to the vessel’s propulsion system.

Following the breach, extensive checks were carried out as per protocol to determine if the reactor had leaked contamination into the secondary loop.

However, it was determined after tests that the fears were unfounded and safety mechanisms on board the indigenous submarine had performed satisfactorily.

It took almost a year for the submarine to be put back into operational duty, as the breach required thorough repairs and critical parts that got damaged due to the salt water were to be replaced. The Arihant is believed to have been put back into operation in October 2017 following the repairs
.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SaiK » 08 Jan 2018 21:51

Sounds like our designs must include failure to follow SOPS.

alerts, automatic locks, and learning software/system.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby darshhan » 08 Jan 2018 22:23

SaiK wrote:Sounds like our designs must include failure to follow SOPS.

alerts, automatic locks, and learning software/system.


Saik, You couldnt be more right and actually this is the approach our designers are taking. Although this applies to every department in almost every country and not just Indian Navy or Indian military. These days almost everyone is attention deficit and lacks ability to focus which is a must for critical activities.

The culprit is smartphone addiction. The damaging effects continue to persist for long even when one is not carrying a smartphone in a sanitized area.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Austin » 08 Jan 2018 22:52

Manu Pubby
‏Verified account @manupubby
6h6 hours ago

After water breach, extensive checks were carried on INS Arihant to determine if the reactor had leaked contamination into secondary loop. Fears were unfounded, safety mechanisms on board the indigenous submarine worked.

Took almost a year for repairs though.


Manu Pubby
Verified account @manupubby
INS Arihant repaired and put back in action in October.

India’s only nuclear armed submarine was non-operational for a year after contamination fear.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SaiK » 09 Jan 2018 00:01

darshhan, in a capability driven architecture, we have methods to execute MC/DC (multiple condition decision coverage). But they miss out because the capability is largely designed based on general requirement, product experts, etc. Never operational reqs, metrics, SOPS or for that matter user manuals.

It is important to write SOPS, User manuals, test documents first. Then sit down on the design table keeping them as your reqs. Specs. In addition to other SQRs.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 09 Jan 2018 01:00

The Arihant was officially commissioned in August/2016. Since the accident occurred sometime in October of 2016, the sub was only really operational for about 2 months! Anyway, good that it's back in action. We do know that Arihant fired a "Sagarika" missile twice, once in Nov/2015, and the next time in April/2016

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby vasu raya » 09 Jan 2018 03:48

Someone in the past commented that Arihant’s power transfer to its transmission was sub optimal, the current problem area they fixed is the same? the Glass half full scenario

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby sum » 09 Jan 2018 04:54

How on earth does a open hatch happen in a billion $ N-sub when when a simple car has a alarm for a open door or hatch?

Any other navy like the Chinese or the Pakis and i would have been ROFLing about how they cant even handle their own veseels with warships toppling in refits/sub blowing up and sinking in harbour/2 N-subs damaged( with 1 having a hatch open while diving) while operating etc but sadly, this is happening with the IN :cry: :(
Last edited by sum on 09 Jan 2018 05:37, edited 2 times in total.

ramana
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby ramana » 09 Jan 2018 05:12

hopefully they did a root cause analysis to find out what happened.

Could be procedures, schedule, training, experience.

Hope they now have a real test firing for everyone to assure the deterrent capability now that it is under question after the mishap..

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Prithwiraj » 09 Jan 2018 06:17

May be I am an idiot ... but when I start my car... and keep my trunk open ..or rear door open-- it gives all sorts of beeping noise to alert me before I even put my foot on accelerator. This is a 2.2 billion Nuclear submarine... I just can not connect the dots... something is amiss...

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby ArjunPandit » 09 Jan 2018 07:09

Prithwiraj wrote:May be I am an idiot ... but when I start my car... and keep my trunk open ..or rear door open-- it gives all sorts of beeping noise to alert me before I even put my foot on accelerator. This is a 2.2 billion Nuclear submarine... I just can not connect the dots... something is amiss...

sorry sir but the 2.2 bn submarine does not even have a FM system.
I for sure am Idiot, as i never drove car in water more than 2 feet, but how deep in water have you taken your car?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 09 Jan 2018 07:13

its the inevitable learning curve when we design our own stuff from ground than license building a proven foreign design.

the placement of the controls inside the arjun tank was also modified after user feedback.

another thing is difference in thought process between engineers and the end user who may not be as a familiar with all details, and needs proper training and safety locks to avoid problems. this is a issue seen in every industry. compare the old UIs to what apple did with the iphone/ipod.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby sum » 09 Jan 2018 07:36

^^ It might all just be a cover story for some major "refit"/"additions" being done on the Arihant to explain being in the harbour for extended periods ( like how the Kilo class kept languishing in HSL for a decade with Russians experts coming in to take a look and help out frequently and suddenly was fit and ready to go within a short while of Arihant submarine)

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 09 Jan 2018 08:35

has it occurred it could be a alarm malfunction. suppose the sensor that detects such condition in the hatch had failed. I am sure all subs would have a panel of such lights as a safety thing before commencing a dive. or the sensor could be ok, but the wire had failed or the wire was also ok but the system that would beep red had failed. there are lakhs of parts in a sub...

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Prithwiraj » 09 Jan 2018 08:41

Will there not be first a visual inspection? I mean the pilots do that every time before flying. A hatch is a pretty big object to be overlooken .. a loose bolt might miss the eye. It is kind of bewildering ... but these kind of events have occured in past like first Ariane 5 launch where Ariane 4 source code in a floppy was used leading to failure.. in recent time last Proton crash from Russia’s new cosmodrome apparetly happened becaused programme instructions was fed as if it is being launched from Boikanur cosmodrome


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