INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
abhijitm
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2994
Joined: 08 Jun 2006 15:02
Contact:

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby abhijitm » 09 Jan 2018 08:42

sum wrote:^^ It might all just be a cover story for some major "refit"/"additions" being done on the Arihant to explain being in the harbour for extended periods ( like how the Kilo class kept languishing in HSL for a decade with Russians experts coming in to take a look and help out frequently and suddenly was fit and ready to go within a short while of Arihant submarine)

+1
and I hope you are right.

SriKumar
BRFite
Posts: 1577
Joined: 27 Feb 2006 07:22
Location: sarvatra

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SriKumar » 09 Jan 2018 09:09

Singha wrote:has it occurred it could be a alarm malfunction. suppose the sensor that detects such condition in the hatch had failed. I am sure all subs would have a panel of such lights as a safety thing before commencing a dive. or the sensor could be ok, but the wire had failed or the wire was also ok but the system that would beep red had failed. there are lakhs of parts in a sub...
Plausible.... Supposedly this happened in the harbor, per the article. What's interesting is how quickly did they stop the dive, and how did they get back to dock. I read somewhere that there was some sort of a Russian rescue vessel hanging around during the initial trials.
Last edited by SriKumar on 09 Jan 2018 10:16, edited 1 time in total.

yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 766
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby yensoy » 09 Jan 2018 09:30

abhijitm wrote:
sum wrote:^^ It might all just be a cover story for some major "refit"/"additions" being done on the Arihant to explain being in the harbour for extended periods ( like how the Kilo class kept languishing in HSL for a decade with Russians experts coming in to take a look and help out frequently and suddenly was fit and ready to go within a short while of Arihant submarine)

+1
and I hope you are right.


If heads have rolled, then this accident did happen. If no heads rolled, then yes it's probably a stealth refit. Someone in the know can connect the dots.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35041
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby shiv » 09 Jan 2018 09:44

I am requesting Prithwiraj and Arjun Pandit to stop responding to each other with a series of worthless posts. I have reported the series and asked if they can be deleted outright because they add no value whatsoever.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35041
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby shiv » 09 Jan 2018 09:46

yensoy wrote:
abhijitm wrote:+1
and I hope you are right.


If heads have rolled, then this accident did happen. If no heads rolled, then yes it's probably a stealth refit. Someone in the know can connect the dots.

I think we need to stop speculating. The news is being released 10 months late. If people want to get a real scare - why not think of some really juicy scenarios? They tried to test a missile and the missile blew a hole that needed repair. If we don't know we could all simply shut up.

prasannasimha
Forum Moderator
Posts: 700
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:22

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby prasannasimha » 09 Jan 2018 10:31

Moderator note - We shall stop the discussion on head rolling. If there was a deviation from SOP's there would be a board of enquiry etc which we will not be privy to. It is a black box project to which we are not privy too. No further discussions will be done on this line.

prasannasimha
Forum Moderator
Posts: 700
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:22

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby prasannasimha » 09 Jan 2018 10:32

When was the last succesful K4 mission report and its relation to the sea water intrusion ?

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9748
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby sum » 09 Jan 2018 10:53

prasannasimha wrote:When was the last succesful K4 mission report and its relation to the sea water intrusion ?

Interesting catch there. So many smokes and mirrors going on here

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19077
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Philip » 09 Jan 2018 11:11

There are numerous hatches set flush with the hull,not hatches for the crew to ingress and egress from the sub.There are also sea water intakes for reactor cooling. The foll. report indicates that a "hatch on the port/left rear side" of the vessel was left open.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/militar ... submarine/
Someone Left a Hatch Open and Crippled India’s $2.9 Billion Submarine
Water damage put the submarine out of action for ten months.

GETTYPUNIT PARANJPE
By Kyle Mizokami
Jan 9, 2018

India’s first ballistic missile submarine was out of commission for ten months after someone neglected to properly close a hatch. The nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant was flooded with saltwater, necessitating nearly a year’s worth of repairs. The submarine is designed to function as a floating arsenal of nuclear weapons, guaranteeing a retaliatory strike in case of surprise attack.

The incident was first reported by The Hindu. According to an Indian Navy source, a hatch was left open on the rear left side of the ship, allowing seawater to rush into the propulsion area while the Arihant was in harbor. Arihant was out of action for ten months as water was pumped out and pipes were cut out and replaced. Indian authorities likely felt that pipes exposed to corrosive seawater couldn't be trusted again, particularly pipes that carry pressurized water coolant to and from the ship’s 83 megawatt nuclear reactor. Failing pipes could not only endanger the ship’s crew but the entire submarine... and her nuclear weapons.

India’s first ballistic missile submarine is the result of a $2.9 billion submarine technology program. Construction on Arihant began in 2009, and the ship was commissioned into the Indian Navy seven years later in October 2016. The modified Russian Akula-1 class nuclear attack submarine was lengthened to accommodate twelve K-15 short-range nuclear missiles or four K-4 intermediate range nuclear missiles. K-15 missiles, with their 434-mile range, primarily target Pakistan, while K-4 missiles, with their 2,174-mile range can reach all of Pakistan and as far as the capital of India’s other neighborhood rival, Beijing. A second missile submarine, INS Arighant, was launched in December, and at least three submarines are planned.

India has a “No First Use” policy with regard to nuclear weapons, promising that it would only use nuclear weapons in response to a nuclear attack. The nation is only the sixth country in the world to put ballistic nuclear weapons at sea, a strategy designed to render at least part of the country’s nuclear arsenal invulnerable to surprise attack. The strategy, known as Continuous At Sea Deterrence, is employed by several countries including the United States and requires at least one nuclear-missile armed submarine at sea at all times.

How in the world could a $2.9 billion submarine be sidelined by a simple mistake? Not leaving hatches open that could potentially sink a ship, particularly a submarine, is basic common sense. Why were the propulsion section and nuclear reactor on the 364-foot long submarine unattended so the flooding went unnoticed as long as it did? As the star of the Indian Navy, Arihant should have attracted the best submariners India had to offer, which makes this accident all the more baffling.

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1283
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby schinnas » 09 Jan 2018 11:28

<POOF>

A few posts above, a moderator has already warned to not go overboard with head-rolls or analysis that ends with "But I do this all the time with PPT and a duct tape at office". Pointless post deleted.

Indranil: Warning issued

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19077
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Philip » 09 Jan 2018 12:41

The sub may have been in the dock undergoing some work and when the dock was flooded ,or the water level raised,the warning of the hatch being open wasn't noticed by the crew on station.There would definitely be sensors,etc. for what would've been a remote-controlled hatch. When a sub is undergoing some work/repairs in the dockyard,the entire crew isn't usually aboard,which may have been the case here,not picked up by those on the sub.Again ,perhaps the sensor failed-who really knows given the sensitivity of the issue.One is sure that an inquiry would've been held and if due to human error the medicine administered to whoever was found responsible.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35606
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SaiK » 09 Jan 2018 17:42

Slightly OT to Arihant, but if someone is interested in design failure of a fast attack nuke sub, USS Thresher, here you go: http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... lear-23981

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49525
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby ramana » 09 Jan 2018 21:48

shiv wrote:I am requesting Prithwiraj and Arjun Pandit to stop responding to each other with a series of worthless posts. I have reported the series and asked if they can be deleted outright because they add no value whatsoever.


+108*72. This sort of inane banter is getting out of hand. Despite so many threads for such banter, serious threads are getting afflicted with this.

Control folks.

Zynda
BRFite
Posts: 1438
Joined: 07 Jan 2006 00:37
Location: J4

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Zynda » 10 Jan 2018 02:06

In the recent K4 test, which submarine was used if Arihant is in the docks for the last 10 months?

Mihir
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 851
Joined: 14 Nov 2004 21:26

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Mihir » 10 Jan 2018 02:29

sum wrote:How on earth does a open hatch happen in a billion $ N-sub when when a simple car has a alarm for a open door or hatch?


It probably wasn't a hatch, but a valve or vent of some sort for the heat exchanger. Pubby contends that water could have entered the piping. An open "hatch" would see it enter the compartment.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35041
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby shiv » 10 Jan 2018 08:48

sum wrote:How on earth does a open hatch happen in a billion $ N-sub when when a simple car has a alarm for a open door or hatch?

With respect may I point out that the problem may lie with your knowledge of cars alone and little awareness of other complex machines. You are copy pasting your limited awareness onto something else. Why would a pilot need to do a walk around an aircraft to ensure that pitot tube and other covers are off if cabling and sensors were provided for hundreds of items rather than the 3 you know about from your car?

No offence intended but I do think that there is some ahead of curvedness going on here.

Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2168
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Cybaru » 10 Jan 2018 08:52

sum wrote:^^ It might all just be a cover story for some major "refit"/"additions" being done on the Arihant to explain being in the harbour for extended periods ( like how the Kilo class kept languishing in HSL for a decade with Russians experts coming in to take a look and help out frequently and suddenly was fit and ready to go within a short while of Arihant submarine)



Forgot there was a ATV thread! YEah, I kinda feel the same way.

John
BRFite
Posts: 1681
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby John » 10 Jan 2018 09:16

Cybaru wrote:
sum wrote:^^ It might all just be a cover story for some major "refit"/"additions" being done on the Arihant to explain being in the harbour for extended periods ( like how the Kilo class kept languishing in HSL for a decade with Russians experts coming in to take a look and help out frequently and suddenly was fit and ready to go within a short while of Arihant submarine)



Forgot there was a ATV thread! YEah, I kinda feel the same way.

First off you won’t write up a cover story to keep refit under wraps it’s submarine not a ship, no one should know whether it’s operational or where it’s been operating. Plus now every news article has picked up this story and you have drawn attention which is not what you want to do with cover story.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35606
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SaiK » 10 Jan 2018 10:35

Well, ** it is operational now **

This article too says it.

https://theprint.in/2018/01/09/big-boos ... -base/amp/

Eric Leiderman
BRFite
Posts: 346
Joined: 26 Nov 2010 08:56

Re-

Postby Eric Leiderman » 10 Jan 2018 10:47

If this hatch open issue happened at Vizag port, I am a bit skeptical, Why would a sub ballast in port. If she did not ballast then some one opened a hatch that was below the water line. Find that hard to believe. Something is not quite right here.
Even if the hatch was kept open when she changed her draft or got underway and water ingressed, There would be all sorts of alarms that went off to let the crew know.
eg. Bilge high level alarm, Low insulation alarm if electrical equipment were to get wet. to name but a few.

I am taking a hail mary on the following:-
But if the hull was open to sea, because of a hatch being open, there could be interlocks that would prevent the sub from diving ( there might be an emergency bypass for this.) but there has to be hard-wear to prevent ,or at the very least reduce damage from this sort of alleged human error

Our navy has been operating subs for a while now there has to be a SOP and safety systems hardwired in to ensure this does not happen.

Something planned or unplanned happened that needed a 10 month refit and these articles are just fluff.

This is a brand new vessel with an unproven design and a long refit might have rectified something that came up during her voyage.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16657
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby chetak » 10 Jan 2018 11:24

yensoy wrote:
abhijitm wrote:+1
and I hope you are right.


If heads have rolled, then this accident did happen. If no heads rolled, then yes it's probably a stealth refit. Someone in the know can connect the dots.


why do we need such info??

whom exactly does it help??

just asking onlee. :)

yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 766
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby yensoy » 10 Jan 2018 11:58

chetak wrote:
yensoy wrote:
If heads have rolled, then this accident did happen. If no heads rolled, then yes it's probably a stealth refit. Someone in the know can connect the dots.

why do we need such info??
whom exactly does it help??
just asking onlee. :)


No we don't need it. Mods have made it clear that we need not speculate. And JFYI I did not ask for the info either, I only said that those who are in the know will know.

Deterrence is a quality that operates best in the gray zone. Just the possibility that the "refit" was potentially something related to improving armaments or propulsion of the vessel is sufficient in expanding the gray zone around this black object. No need for any clarity.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 62166
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 10 Jan 2018 12:00

apply occams razor some mishap did occur , and now that its back operational again, news has been leaked not officially but by some leakers who feel it wont incur any wrath now.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16657
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby chetak » 10 Jan 2018 12:15

yensoy wrote:
chetak wrote:why do we need such info??
whom exactly does it help??
just asking onlee. :)


No we don't need it. Mods have made it clear that we need not speculate. And JFYI I did not ask for the info either, I only said that those who are in the know will know.

Deterrence is a quality that operates best in the gray zone. Just the possibility that the "refit" was potentially something related to improving armaments or propulsion of the vessel is sufficient in expanding the gray zone around this black object. No need for any clarity.


My worry is that some nutcase newbie, in a bid to impress all with his knowledge and connections, may post something, compromising security.

Speculate all you want, no problem but it's best to let some sleeping dogs lie.

and also leave some dots unconnected, no?? :)

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19077
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Philip » 10 Jan 2018 13:02

If there was some "extras" installed,there wouldn't be any story at all. The news must've "leaked ",pun intended! So the IN decided to release a titibit of news now that the sub is operational again.Curious though how he sonar dome accident was at the same time though.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35041
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby shiv » 10 Jan 2018 14:03

Mods have requested that there should be no further discussions about head rolling.

Now if we must demand that heads must roll in the Navy, why not have heads rolling on BRF too for transgressing a simple request? This pompous business of "heads must roll" is an example that can be set right here on BRF by those that have the power to make heads roll.

vickyiyer
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 6
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 11:34

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby vickyiyer » 10 Jan 2018 14:21

Could this have been a sabotage?

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16657
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby chetak » 10 Jan 2018 15:14

shiv wrote:Mods have requested that there should be no further discussions about head rolling.

Now if we must demand that heads must roll in the Navy, why not have heads rolling on BRF too for transgressing a simple request? This pompous business of "heads must roll" is an example that can be set right here on BRF by those that have the power to make heads roll.


It's a pity but heads do indeed "roll" in the IN even for minor transgressions.

If heads needed rolling in this case, please rest assured that they would have surely rolled.

The IN is particularly gung ho on heads rolling. It's a cultural thing, handed down from the brits.

Before this, they had "the cat o' nine tails".

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35606
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SaiK » 10 Jan 2018 18:08

<Poof>

Admin Note - Despite Admins saying not to ask for head rolling, you got to do that by quoting some shady blog’s profanities? This is your second active warning. You have a long history of warnings and short term bans. Do not attract too much of admin attention

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35041
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby shiv » 10 Jan 2018 18:39

chetak wrote:It's a pity but heads do indeed "roll" in the IN even for minor transgressions.

If heads needed rolling in this case, please rest assured that they would have surely rolled.

The IN is particularly gung ho on heads rolling. It's a cultural thing, handed down from the brits.

Before this, they had "the cat o' nine tails".

My viewpoint on the calling for heads to roll is based on my perspective which I see as an underinformed call for a witch hunt based on a media report from media which we trust or do not trust depending on how much we like the news or the reporter. We don't know exactly what happened and why it happened, but there are calls for heads to roll accompanied by a holier than thou attitude of "Oh we are so efficient in our stomping grounds that this is what we would do there and this is what we demand from the Navy". To my mind this is both contrived and hypocritical- given that we really have no clue about what transpired. My personal opinion is that it is better to shut up rather than display one's own great sense of righteousness and justice by the critiques and demands I see from nuclear submarine+automobile experts I see on this forum.

I am signing out. My abject apologies (mainly to myself) for even having read posts on here including posts from people whom I blocked ages ago because I never found anything useful to read. Sorry all. My fault.

nandakumar
BRFite
Posts: 764
Joined: 10 May 2010 13:37

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby nandakumar » 10 Jan 2018 21:12

To liven up the proceedings. Some bloggers on this site are having a ball on about their respective country's navy.
The Rev Kev
January 10, 2018 at 8:42 am
India knocked its new, $3 billion nuclear-missile sub out of commission — by leaving a hatch open

I wouldn’t be too hard on the Indians here. The military is like any other human endeavour – prone to screw ups, stuff ups and just sheer dumb luck. Just put in the search term ‘fail military’ at YouTube to be inundated with film clips on this subject and the one at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShH7QzPiq-4 may be a fair example. One time, a US nuclear submarine left port but was making an awful racket which would let every ship within hundreds of kilometers know that there was a sub present. The problem turned out to be a spanner that a worker had left in the hull by accident. Sometimes stuff just happens.

Reply ↓
Kevin
January 10, 2018 at 8:49 am
Totally agree – hard for us to toss stones when our own Navy looks more like McHale’s Navy lately…

Reply ↓
The Rev Kev
January 10, 2018 at 8:59 am
Happens everywhere and I mean everywhere. I understand that at the moment there are a total of no German submarines operational at sea (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201 ... king-subs/) and I mean none. As of a fortnight ago all six of their submarines were out of commission so you can bet that that was not planned.

The Rev Kev
January 10, 2018 at 8:42 am
India knocked its new, $3 billion nuclear-missile sub out of commission — by leaving a hatch open

I wouldn’t be too hard on the Indians here. The military is like any other human endeavour – prone to screw ups, stuff ups and just sheer dumb luck. Just put in the search term ‘fail military’ at YouTube to be inundated with film clips on this subject and the one at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShH7QzPiq-4 may be a fair example. One time, a US nuclear submarine left port but was making an awful racket which would let every ship within hundreds of kilometers know that there was a sub present. The problem turned out to be a spanner that a worker had left in the hull by accident. Sometimes stuff just happens.

Reply ↓
Kevin
January 10, 2018 at 8:49 am
Totally agree – hard for us to toss stones when our own Navy looks more like McHale’s Navy lately…

Reply ↓
The Rev Kev
January 10, 2018 at 8:59 am
Happens everywhere and I mean everywhere. I understand that at the moment there are a total of no German submarines operational at sea (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201 ... king-subs/) and I mean none. As of a fortnight ago all six of their submarines were out of commission so you can bet that that was not planned.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49525
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby ramana » 11 Jan 2018 01:38

That's BS. Please don't post any more stuff.
Thanks, ramana

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6536
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Indranil » 11 Jan 2018 01:57

MODERATOR NOTE:

Hakeem, Chetak sir: Thanks for being the good samaritan here. It is a pity how common sense is so absent these days!

Any posts on head rolling will be poofed and a head will be rolled here. No clarification will be given.

Jayram
BRFite
Posts: 274
Joined: 14 Jan 2003 12:31

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Jayram » 12 Jan 2018 02:08

OT Alert
Dont know if this has been covered in BR earlier or not but I just finished watching the 4 episode series of "How to Command a Nuclear Submarine" on Amazon Prime. Whew what a rush! This one pulls the curtain all the way back on nuclear submarine captain selection in the Royal Navy using the latest nuclear sub HMS Triumph as the setting. The story is 5 sub captains including the one of the best and brightest from US navy are put thru a 4 week stint where they are responsible for being on duty captains under constant scrutiny of the "Trainer" and current serving sub captains. Pass the course and they would go on to lead a Nuclear submarine command. Fail and their underwater career in the Navy is finished. The missions are all covered -combined mission of taking photos of target in this case a light house to planting underwater sensors to detect harbor movement house while evading the combined efforts of a Frigate and a Antiship chopper. Another covered a targeting and killing a diesel sub and another nuclear sub. The Trainer chewed out out the wannabe captains publicly without regard to rank. At one point fully 38000 were deployed in training exercise just for the sake of providing realistic war games to choose the next set of Navy Captains including the use of the Arc Royal British aircraft carrier. Cameras were allowed everywhere in HD. If you did not fully appreciate the use of thermoclines to hide a submarine you will now. Truly the stuff of wet dreams for military fans.
OT Off -
Carry on

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19077
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Philip » 12 Jan 2018 02:56

The RN have their famous "Perisher" course for commanders of subs.Only one chance given.Those who've failed know it when they're given a bottle of scotch and sent back from the sub.They will almost certainly never serve aboard subs again.It is a 2 month gruelling course of the west coast of Scotland involving frigates and at least one sub.A small batch of submarines are put through their paces by the "Teacher".
There is an old 6 part BBC documentary on U-tube available.

Rishi_Tri
BRFite
Posts: 139
Joined: 13 Feb 2017 14:49

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Rishi_Tri » 12 Jan 2018 03:46

SaiK wrote:Well, ** it is operational now **

This article too says it.

https://theprint.in/2018/01/09/big-boos ... -base/amp/


The article is little dodgy on details. Total land that has been acquired seems to be in range of 5000 acres and that seems right for large strategic facilities.

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 051781.ece

Anyway, there was talk in this thread that a third boat may have begun swimming given that it's been almost decade since Arihant was floated. Any conjectures on that?

Varoon Shekhar
BRFite
Posts: 1660
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 23:26

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 12 Jan 2018 18:41

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 468708.cms

Interesting article from the Economic Times on the recent 'accident'. Says the government must have known what was going on

wig
BRFite
Posts: 1468
Joined: 09 Feb 2009 16:58

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby wig » 12 Jan 2018 18:45

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 468708.cms

this article is interesting or maybe smokes and mirrors

Deep diving into the facts about INS Arihant 'accident'
excerpts
The submarine has no hatches there. The Arihant is based on Russian double hull design with a sealed nuclear reactor section. Except for the latest French nuclear submarines that have a hatch above the reactor for quicker refuelling, no other country with nuclear submarines have such a system.

and regarding the hatches
There are no external hatches in the compartment that houses the steam turbine, gearbox, generator and shaft that drives the propeller. Under normal circumstances, it is not possible for sea water to enter the submarine, and certainly not via a 'non-existent hatch'. It also not possible for a modern submarine that has various sensors to not have a warning system about an open hatch in any other area of the submarine critical for its survival.


the original story mentioned that the Political leadership got to be aware of this during the Doklam standoff

Intelligence agencies like Intelligence Bureau (IB) and the Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW) report to the NSA. It is improbable that the NSA, arguably the most powerful person in the Indian security establishment, did not know about the status of an important strategic asset for 7-8 months, and learnt about the damage only at the time of a crisis.

cppst

Vivek K
BRFite
Posts: 1877
Joined: 15 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Vivek K » 12 Jan 2018 19:31

This episode gives more credence to the third boat in water conjecture. GOI’s bravado stemmed from confidence of abilities.

prasannasimha
Forum Moderator
Posts: 700
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:22

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby prasannasimha » 12 Jan 2018 21:10

The crux is K4 missile test from Arihanth and the sudden release of Arigat.Winter was when Doklam and Arunachal Pradesh incursions were expected. Both were repulsed and suddenly two submarines are in the water. Aridhaman is not mentioned suddeny but there have been some analysis that a sub with 8 hatches was in a pen.
Smokess and mirrors is the hall mark of detterent.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dileep, Khalsa, Vineetmehta_del and 27 guests