Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

BR Main Site Feedback

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Indranil
Forum Moderator
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby Indranil » 21 Jul 2017 00:52

JayS wrote:
shiv wrote:As regards suggestions that entry should be restricted to only those with some knowledge - no, that will not work. After all BRF now has 4 forums. Start a 5th forum called "Military veterans forum" and allow only military vets to post and maybe a few select others simply to pass on questions from aam abdul to the vets. If anyone wants to argue or curse let them do it on the other forums. Open up membership. Let BRF not be an exclusive club of privileged dodos and people who have entered by rank, age and influence

I like the idea pretty much. There is so much from the AF's perspective that is missing from the narrative, that it causes mass scale ignorance and lack of knowledge for even those who want to learn. Such platform could fill that void. BRF could invite x-AF personnel to contribute there.

Can we have a similar forum for the other side as well..? I suppose its far more difficult to get people from the RnD side and even more so to make them talk on public forum. But could be tried.

I do not like these ideas. I present my case. There is no us vs. them!
1. Hakeem, you and some others may have a feeling BRF and is a place to curse the defense forces. The moderators are abetting it. This is wrong. And I vehemently protest it.
2. You can say moderators have gone easy on posters and this has caused laxity. That is a valid feedback, and we are working on it to bring the quality back up. But I should caution you that internet in general has become more pervasive and there will be a little more clutter to go through. This the same ground reality that frustrates you as a member, and us as moderators. We are trying to fight it.
3. So we should do everything to persuade good contributors to join/stay, and find a way to weed out bad posters quickly. We need the help of current members in this too. I have even higher expectations from somebody like you, and you are dissuading quality new entrants!!!!!

P.S. Hakeem, I contacted you about something else in your message box. Please check.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby Indranil » 21 Jul 2017 00:53

ArjunPandit wrote:Shiv, JayS,
+108 to both of you folks

I will give you a feedback. Stop increasing post count with posts like this above, one per day. Doesn't add anything meaningful.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 33462
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby shiv » 21 Jul 2017 06:28

Indranil wrote:1. Hakeem, you and some others may have a feeling BRF and is a place to curse the defense forces. The moderators are abetting it. This is wrong. And I vehemently protest it.

It is wrong because you are creating new meaning out of what I said. I never said that moderators as a group are abetting dissing the armed forces. You are protesting something that I did not say. If someone else said it that is not my statement and do not include that accusation against me.

But there is one moderator who has on occasion made statements insulting to the armed forces. I have privately complained by reporting the concerned post and on occasion corrections have been made, sometimes by the moderator himself. And it was not you. You probably don't even know this happened and under the circumstances you are wrong in painting all moderator actions as individuals in lily white. You know very well that if I have something against you personally I would report your post so at least other moderators would know.

You need to decide whether you want to include yourself in a "a group of moderators" who are collectively responsible or whether you are an individual with your own conscience. If you choose the former, then I accuse the moderator group of being blind to at least one moderator who has been insulting to the armed forces. If you are an individual who has never done this, please DO NOT speak collectively for the group.

And please do not ignore the fact that there are a lot of other things that are not healthy about BRF that I have pointed out in my earlier posts. Your protestation that moderators do not have time to read every post was what set me off in pointing out the number of things that moderators do not seem to have time for.

And before anyone else gets uptight (as has happened on previous pages) - when I say "Do not insult the armed forces on here where the accused has no right of reply" I am not implying that it is OK to diss babus or politicians. I am not even claiming innocence. Do not insult anyone. Or at least have equal standards where a forum member has a right to insult another member for defamation. Right now we are allowed to insult anyone except a forum member. Insulting the former is neither remarked upon nor debated. Insulting a forum member earns punishment.

As regards the private message, this is what I am seeing
Information

You are not authorised to read private messages that are on hold.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5681
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby Indranil » 21 Jul 2017 09:15

Can you see the message now.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 33462
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Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby shiv » 21 Jul 2017 09:29

Indranil wrote:Can you see the message now.

Saw it thanks - but looks like I have found a new forum bug.

The reason I could not see your messages was because my inbox was full (50 messages) and there is no delete option.

However there is a delete oldest messages option which I activated and the oldest 2 got deleted. Most of my messages can be deleted but there are a few from the late Brigadier RayC that I want to keep. Maybe I will simply archive them using copy-paste

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19606
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby Austin » 21 Jul 2017 10:08

Mods ,I want to change my email for communication from what I am been using currently , How do I go about ?

JayS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2381
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby JayS » 21 Jul 2017 10:57

Indranil wrote:
JayS wrote: I like the idea pretty much. There is so much from the AF's perspective that is missing from the narrative, that it causes mass scale ignorance and lack of knowledge for even those who want to learn. Such platform could fill that void. BRF could invite x-AF personnel to contribute there.

Can we have a similar forum for the other side as well..? I suppose its far more difficult to get people from the RnD side and even more so to make them talk on public forum. But could be tried.

I do not like these ideas. I present my case. There is no us vs. them!
1. Hakeem, you and some others may have a feeling BRF and is a place to curse the defense forces. The moderators are abetting it. This is wrong. And I vehemently protest it.
2. You can say moderators have gone easy on posters and this has caused laxity. That is a valid feedback, and we are working on it to bring the quality back up. But I should caution you that internet in general has become more pervasive and there will be a little more clutter to go through. This the same ground reality that frustrates you as a member, and us as moderators. We are trying to fight it.
3. So we should do everything to persuade good contributors to join/stay, and find a way to weed out bad posters quickly. We need the help of current members in this too. I have even higher expectations from somebody like you, and you are dissuading quality new entrants!!!!!

P.S. Hakeem, I contacted you about something else in your message box. Please check.


IR, lets not bring in "us vs then" issue here. Its not about that. I suppose you would agree that we need focused forums when we need to discuss something focused on one particular thing in-depth. Segregating that thing from others does not mean putting it in opposition to others. Its like if you want to focus on Jet engines, you would want to have a turbo-machinary conference and not a general aerospace conference where other n number of things might simply overshadow the topic of interest. If we want domain experts to bring in knowledge we need to have a forum which can facilitate that. And as much as there is lack of knowledge and information on the AF's side, its the same on the R&D establishment side as well. Balance has to be maintained if we need to have a serious discourse (Many times I defend HAL on LCA issue, simply because I feel their pov is not being presented here). It doesn't matter if we club them together under single forum but in separate threads ti maintain focus. The point is to separate out such gyan threads from other "all and sundry" threads. Again this is not to create elitists' clubs, but merely to facilitate proper discussions on various levels.

To maintain balance, I would also like to have the babus' side be presented. But that's almost impossible. And more importantly, them giving excuses is unacceptable to a large extent because they have much more powerful means to make things happen, as compared to AFs or R&D. And there is no point in taking politicians pov.

Gaur
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 2009
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby Gaur » 21 Jul 2017 11:09

To Indranil/Mods,

Would like to provide my 2 cents as a lurker (the silent majority of BR! :D)

1. The issue (at least for me) is not anti armed forces posts or anti DRDO posts. The main issue seems to be "emotionally charged opinions". Fact based and researched criticism (of Armed Forces, Scientists, Babu's etc) can lead to a very constructive and informed debate. However, sarcastic, attacking and emotional posts can only lead to more personal attacks and fights. I hope BR will have 0 tolerance policy for them.

2. Even if the posts are not emotionally charged, most are "opinions" without quoting any facts or links. I hope MODs come up with some policy to discourage these. They have to be at the minimum called out or moved to "newbie" forum or perhaps even "trash". As a poster, I should be hesitant to post unrehearsed ramblings.

3. newbie thread has to be encouraged. Eg: In past few days, some new posters have asked questions like "Why army changed requirement from 5.56 mm to 7.62mm" (not in verbatim). These should not be entertained in the main thread and be redirected towards newbie thread.

4. Lastly, we as posters (whether active or lurkers) have to take up responsibility of reporting posts. We cannot simply expect mods to be omnipotent and be aware of each post. I would also request MODs to take up Shiv Sir's point and bring up Forum Guidelines link so that it can serve as an unquestionable reference to call out bad posts.

In the end, I understand that any forum will always have more noise than informed posts. However, when it gets so high that even research oriented posters get frustrated enough and start resorting to emotional/personal attacks, some intervention to raise quality is definitely needed.

Cheers!

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5681
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby Indranil » 22 Jul 2017 04:21

Gaur wrote:1. The issue (at least for me) is not anti armed forces posts or anti DRDO posts. The main issue seems to be "emotionally charged opinions". Fact based and researched criticism (of Armed Forces, Scientists, Babu's etc) can lead to a very constructive and informed debate. However, sarcastic, attacking and emotional posts can only lead to more personal attacks and fights. I hope BR will have 0 tolerance policy for them.

Absolutely. See something, say something.

Gaur wrote:2. Even if the posts are not emotionally charged, most are "opinions" without quoting any facts or links. I hope MODs come up with some policy to discourage these. They have to be at the minimum called out or moved to "newbie" forum or perhaps even "trash". As a poster, I should be hesitant to post unrehearsed ramblings.

3. newbie thread has to be encouraged. Eg: In past few days, some new posters have asked questions like "Why army changed requirement from 5.56 mm to 7.62mm" (not in verbatim). These should not be entertained in the main thread and be redirected towards newbie thread.

This is absolutely true. Mods will do whatever they can. But, their role is limited here. This is a matter of habit. Posters, when you see a newbie question on a thread, say "this belongs to the newbie thread" and reply there. Serial offenders will be warned.

Gaur wrote:4. Lastly, we as posters (whether active or lurkers) have to take up responsibility of reporting posts. We cannot simply expect mods to be omnipotent and be aware of each post. I would also request MODs to take up Shiv Sir's point and bring up Forum Guidelines link so that it can serve as an unquestionable reference to call out bad posts.

We will work on that link.

shiv
BRF Oldie
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Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby shiv » 27 Jul 2017 22:46

I have reported 3 posts as "For the attention of the Moderator team". There is one new member who is posting such outlandish stuff that 3 people (and finally me) asked for that person to stop.

We simply must decide whether these forums are general chatrooms or a place for addition of value. I accept that this may put a huge burden on mods, but that is a weak excuse. The highest quality sites either do not allow in everyone or there is tight moderation. Or let it be free for all and let forum members use their own means and language to keep others in check

Indranil
Forum Moderator
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby Indranil » 28 Jul 2017 06:03

1. Which thread is it on. I don't see the reports in the moderation queue.
2. If it is in the past 24 hours, please have some patience.
3. We are discussing how to handle GDF. You should hear from us soon.

Rakesh
Webmaster BR
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby Rakesh » 28 Jul 2017 06:08

Indranil:
1. Managing Chinese Threat thread in the Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
2. Some newbie called samirdiw...some dude trolling and baiting members to derail discussions.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby Indranil » 28 Jul 2017 19:09

I think corrective action has already been taken by Ramana sir.

Avarachan
BRFite
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby Avarachan » 30 Jul 2017 14:50

shiv wrote:We simply must decide whether these forums are general chatrooms or a place for addition of value. I accept that this may put a huge burden on mods, but that is a weak excuse. The highest quality sites either do not allow in everyone or there is tight moderation. Or let it be free for all and let forum members use their own means and language to keep others in check


This is a great point. From my perspective, the drop-off in BRF's quality is noticeable. I used to read BRF in two distinct ways: following certain threads I was interested in, and following certain posters I respected. There's so much junk nowadays I no longer follow threads ... It's not worth investing the time. I wonder how long it will be before talented members and mods get bored/tired/frustrated/irritated and start leaving.

I have a suggestion ... I've been surprised at how tolerant the mods are. I think it's because they want new people to grow and they don't want to discourage them with a harsh punishment (ban, rebuke, etc.). Well, how about an intermediate step? Instead of warning people for a foolish post, how about immediately "punishing" them by only allowing them to post in the newbie corner for a month? For a second offense, a punishment of 3 months, etc.

This would have several beneficial effects.

1) It would help to keep the threads clean.
2) Because there would be instant "punishment," members would have an incentive to think before they posted. I lurked for 2-3 years before I made my first post. I felt that I didn't know enough to post before that. I don't see much of that hesitancy nowadays ... People are just posting whatever silliness comes into their heads. They don't have to be concerned, because they'll get multiple warnings before anything happens.
3) I strongly believe that certain members are being compensated on a per-post basis. Why should we allow these people to waste the mods' time and degrade the usefulness of the forum for other users? If someone wants to post junk for his employer, let him do so in the newbie thread.
4) Because this would raise the standards of the forum, it would reduce the moderators' workload. Indranil has mentioned that he would like to write an article on the aerodynamics of the Tejas. What would be better for BR--that he write that article, or that he spend his time on forum-moderation issues with people who are being immature?
5) Let the newbie corner be non-moderated or only very lightly moderated. It's the newbie corner, so people won't have high expectations for it.

I'll write more if I have the time.

AdityaM
BRFite
Posts: 1797
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Location: New Delhi

Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby AdityaM » 01 Aug 2017 02:25

The news links on the main site have not been updated since Feb. Is this a deprecated feature?

AdityaM
BRFite
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Location: New Delhi

Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby AdityaM » 01 Aug 2017 02:37

So many members are expressing concern about quality of posts.

One direct reason for excessive noise to worthwhile content is that there has been a proliferation of threads.
China itself has 4+ threads dedicated to it.

Every thread needs postings to sustain. More the threads, greater will be the low quality of posts, since people feel the urge to fill in & create some traction.

In the oldest version of brf, there used to be a trash can thread, where all low quality posts were moved. It had the psychological benefit of conveying to people that they were posting poor quality content, hence acting like a feedback.

SKrishna
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby SKrishna » 11 Aug 2017 09:31

Where's the forums link on the home page in mobile version of the site? :evil: :cry: That's where I go 100% of time I visit BR

Guddu
BRFite
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby Guddu » 12 Aug 2017 03:21

+100, setting up the "mobile site" has had the unintended consequence of making BRF inaccessible on a cell phone. And sir, the 21st century term is cell phone, mobiles are so last century.

abhijitm
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby abhijitm » 12 Aug 2017 08:32

Mobile friendly home page is missing the forum link.

Jagan
Webmaster BR
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby Jagan » 13 Aug 2017 08:54

Guddu wrote:+100, setting up the "mobile site" has had the unintended consequence of making BRF inaccessible on a cell phone. And sir, the 21st century term is cell phone, mobiles are so last century.


Now Fixed - .. Yes - unintended consequence!

shiv
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby shiv » 19 Aug 2017 09:59

This post is not about Indranil. It is directed at all mods

Indranil wrote:
Gaur wrote:4. Lastly, we as posters (whether active or lurkers) have to take up responsibility of reporting posts. We cannot simply expect mods to be omnipotent and be aware of each post. I would also request MODs to take up Shiv Sir's point and bring up Forum Guidelines link so that it can serve as an unquestionable reference to call out bad posts.
We will work on that link.
The link is still dead

Indranil wrote:3. So we should do everything to persuade good contributors to join/stay, and find a way to weed out bad posters quickly. We need the help of current members in this too. I have even higher expectations from somebody like you, and you are dissuading quality new entrants!!!!!
What actions have been taken to get opinions from forum members? Note that all admins were forum members at some time. and inputs from forum members must ideally be taken seriously. Moderation, difficult as it is should not be considered a lifetime job. In once, never out and no one else needed, like BCCI. If it is too heavy, ask members for help. Ask for suggestions. Conduct a poll. I do think that the military forum in particular is an orphan, with no guidance or vision, and is chugging along like a general poop and move chatroom. My personal views may be wrong. If you like I will conduct a poll about how these forums are seen and how they should move forward.

Indranil wrote:3. We are discussing how to handle GDF. You should hear from us soon.
Private discussion may be going on between admins. We have heard nothing.

shiv
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Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby shiv » 19 Aug 2017 10:05

A long time ago when there were only two forums (no eco and general discussion) we had about 8-10 admins. Now with thousands more members and thousands more posts and two more forum - has the number of admins increased? Are there admins with domain expertise? I think there is no one with domain expertise for the mil forums.

Is there any vision for the future of these forums, or is there a sense of deep satisfaction that all is well? I disagree with the latter view. As one can see from earlier posts - so do many others

Manish_P
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Postby Manish_P » 27 Sep 2017 16:32

Sirs, I had registered with a BSNL email ID. I want to change my email for communication from what I had registered with. Is free private mail (Gmail or Hotmail) allowed. If yes, then how can i change the email ID.


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