BR Main Site Feedback

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
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shiv
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by shiv »

Indranil wrote: 1. Hakeem, you and some others may have a feeling BRF and is a place to curse the defense forces. The moderators are abetting it. This is wrong. And I vehemently protest it.
It is wrong because you are creating new meaning out of what I said. I never said that moderators as a group are abetting dissing the armed forces. You are protesting something that I did not say. If someone else said it that is not my statement and do not include that accusation against me.

But there is one moderator who has on occasion made statements insulting to the armed forces. I have privately complained by reporting the concerned post and on occasion corrections have been made, sometimes by the moderator himself. And it was not you. You probably don't even know this happened and under the circumstances you are wrong in painting all moderator actions as individuals in lily white. You know very well that if I have something against you personally I would report your post so at least other moderators would know.

You need to decide whether you want to include yourself in a "a group of moderators" who are collectively responsible or whether you are an individual with your own conscience. If you choose the former, then I accuse the moderator group of being blind to at least one moderator who has been insulting to the armed forces. If you are an individual who has never done this, please DO NOT speak collectively for the group.

And please do not ignore the fact that there are a lot of other things that are not healthy about BRF that I have pointed out in my earlier posts. Your protestation that moderators do not have time to read every post was what set me off in pointing out the number of things that moderators do not seem to have time for.

And before anyone else gets uptight (as has happened on previous pages) - when I say "Do not insult the armed forces on here where the accused has no right of reply" I am not implying that it is OK to diss babus or politicians. I am not even claiming innocence. Do not insult anyone. Or at least have equal standards where a forum member has a right to insult another member for defamation. Right now we are allowed to insult anyone except a forum member. Insulting the former is neither remarked upon nor debated. Insulting a forum member earns punishment.

As regards the private message, this is what I am seeing
Information

You are not authorised to read private messages that are on hold.
Indranil
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Indranil »

Can you see the message now.
shiv
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by shiv »

Indranil wrote:Can you see the message now.
Saw it thanks - but looks like I have found a new forum bug.

The reason I could not see your messages was because my inbox was full (50 messages) and there is no delete option.

However there is a delete oldest messages option which I activated and the oldest 2 got deleted. Most of my messages can be deleted but there are a few from the late Brigadier RayC that I want to keep. Maybe I will simply archive them using copy-paste
Austin
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Austin »

Mods ,I want to change my email for communication from what I am been using currently , How do I go about ?
JayS
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by JayS »

Indranil wrote:
JayS wrote: I like the idea pretty much. There is so much from the AF's perspective that is missing from the narrative, that it causes mass scale ignorance and lack of knowledge for even those who want to learn. Such platform could fill that void. BRF could invite x-AF personnel to contribute there.

Can we have a similar forum for the other side as well..? I suppose its far more difficult to get people from the RnD side and even more so to make them talk on public forum. But could be tried.
I do not like these ideas. I present my case. There is no us vs. them!
1. Hakeem, you and some others may have a feeling BRF and is a place to curse the defense forces. The moderators are abetting it. This is wrong. And I vehemently protest it.
2. You can say moderators have gone easy on posters and this has caused laxity. That is a valid feedback, and we are working on it to bring the quality back up. But I should caution you that internet in general has become more pervasive and there will be a little more clutter to go through. This the same ground reality that frustrates you as a member, and us as moderators. We are trying to fight it.
3. So we should do everything to persuade good contributors to join/stay, and find a way to weed out bad posters quickly. We need the help of current members in this too. I have even higher expectations from somebody like you, and you are dissuading quality new entrants!!!!!

P.S. Hakeem, I contacted you about something else in your message box. Please check.
IR, lets not bring in "us vs then" issue here. Its not about that. I suppose you would agree that we need focused forums when we need to discuss something focused on one particular thing in-depth. Segregating that thing from others does not mean putting it in opposition to others. Its like if you want to focus on Jet engines, you would want to have a turbo-machinary conference and not a general aerospace conference where other n number of things might simply overshadow the topic of interest. If we want domain experts to bring in knowledge we need to have a forum which can facilitate that. And as much as there is lack of knowledge and information on the AF's side, its the same on the R&D establishment side as well. Balance has to be maintained if we need to have a serious discourse (Many times I defend HAL on LCA issue, simply because I feel their pov is not being presented here). It doesn't matter if we club them together under single forum but in separate threads ti maintain focus. The point is to separate out such gyan threads from other "all and sundry" threads. Again this is not to create elitists' clubs, but merely to facilitate proper discussions on various levels.

To maintain balance, I would also like to have the babus' side be presented. But that's almost impossible. And more importantly, them giving excuses is unacceptable to a large extent because they have much more powerful means to make things happen, as compared to AFs or R&D. And there is no point in taking politicians pov.
Gaur
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Gaur »

To Indranil/Mods,

Would like to provide my 2 cents as a lurker (the silent majority of BR! :D)

1. The issue (at least for me) is not anti armed forces posts or anti DRDO posts. The main issue seems to be "emotionally charged opinions". Fact based and researched criticism (of Armed Forces, Scientists, Babu's etc) can lead to a very constructive and informed debate. However, sarcastic, attacking and emotional posts can only lead to more personal attacks and fights. I hope BR will have 0 tolerance policy for them.

2. Even if the posts are not emotionally charged, most are "opinions" without quoting any facts or links. I hope MODs come up with some policy to discourage these. They have to be at the minimum called out or moved to "newbie" forum or perhaps even "trash". As a poster, I should be hesitant to post unrehearsed ramblings.

3. newbie thread has to be encouraged. Eg: In past few days, some new posters have asked questions like "Why army changed requirement from 5.56 mm to 7.62mm" (not in verbatim). These should not be entertained in the main thread and be redirected towards newbie thread.

4. Lastly, we as posters (whether active or lurkers) have to take up responsibility of reporting posts. We cannot simply expect mods to be omnipotent and be aware of each post. I would also request MODs to take up Shiv Sir's point and bring up Forum Guidelines link so that it can serve as an unquestionable reference to call out bad posts.

In the end, I understand that any forum will always have more noise than informed posts. However, when it gets so high that even research oriented posters get frustrated enough and start resorting to emotional/personal attacks, some intervention to raise quality is definitely needed.

Cheers!
Indranil
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Indranil »

Gaur wrote: 1. The issue (at least for me) is not anti armed forces posts or anti DRDO posts. The main issue seems to be "emotionally charged opinions". Fact based and researched criticism (of Armed Forces, Scientists, Babu's etc) can lead to a very constructive and informed debate. However, sarcastic, attacking and emotional posts can only lead to more personal attacks and fights. I hope BR will have 0 tolerance policy for them.
Absolutely. See something, say something.
Gaur wrote: 2. Even if the posts are not emotionally charged, most are "opinions" without quoting any facts or links. I hope MODs come up with some policy to discourage these. They have to be at the minimum called out or moved to "newbie" forum or perhaps even "trash". As a poster, I should be hesitant to post unrehearsed ramblings.

3. newbie thread has to be encouraged. Eg: In past few days, some new posters have asked questions like "Why army changed requirement from 5.56 mm to 7.62mm" (not in verbatim). These should not be entertained in the main thread and be redirected towards newbie thread.
This is absolutely true. Mods will do whatever they can. But, their role is limited here. This is a matter of habit. Posters, when you see a newbie question on a thread, say "this belongs to the newbie thread" and reply there. Serial offenders will be warned.
Gaur wrote: 4. Lastly, we as posters (whether active or lurkers) have to take up responsibility of reporting posts. We cannot simply expect mods to be omnipotent and be aware of each post. I would also request MODs to take up Shiv Sir's point and bring up Forum Guidelines link so that it can serve as an unquestionable reference to call out bad posts.
We will work on that link.
shiv
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by shiv »

I have reported 3 posts as "For the attention of the Moderator team". There is one new member who is posting such outlandish stuff that 3 people (and finally me) asked for that person to stop.

We simply must decide whether these forums are general chatrooms or a place for addition of value. I accept that this may put a huge burden on mods, but that is a weak excuse. The highest quality sites either do not allow in everyone or there is tight moderation. Or let it be free for all and let forum members use their own means and language to keep others in check
Indranil
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Indranil »

1. Which thread is it on. I don't see the reports in the moderation queue.
2. If it is in the past 24 hours, please have some patience.
3. We are discussing how to handle GDF. You should hear from us soon.
Rakesh
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Rakesh »

Indranil:
1. Managing Chinese Threat thread in the Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
2. Some newbie called samirdiw...some dude trolling and baiting members to derail discussions.
Indranil
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Indranil »

I think corrective action has already been taken by Ramana sir.
Avarachan
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Avarachan »

shiv wrote:We simply must decide whether these forums are general chatrooms or a place for addition of value. I accept that this may put a huge burden on mods, but that is a weak excuse. The highest quality sites either do not allow in everyone or there is tight moderation. Or let it be free for all and let forum members use their own means and language to keep others in check
This is a great point. From my perspective, the drop-off in BRF's quality is noticeable. I used to read BRF in two distinct ways: following certain threads I was interested in, and following certain posters I respected. There's so much junk nowadays I no longer follow threads ... It's not worth investing the time. I wonder how long it will be before talented members and mods get bored/tired/frustrated/irritated and start leaving.

I have a suggestion ... I've been surprised at how tolerant the mods are. I think it's because they want new people to grow and they don't want to discourage them with a harsh punishment (ban, rebuke, etc.). Well, how about an intermediate step? Instead of warning people for a foolish post, how about immediately "punishing" them by only allowing them to post in the newbie corner for a month? For a second offense, a punishment of 3 months, etc.

This would have several beneficial effects.

1) It would help to keep the threads clean.
2) Because there would be instant "punishment," members would have an incentive to think before they posted. I lurked for 2-3 years before I made my first post. I felt that I didn't know enough to post before that. I don't see much of that hesitancy nowadays ... People are just posting whatever silliness comes into their heads. They don't have to be concerned, because they'll get multiple warnings before anything happens.
3) I strongly believe that certain members are being compensated on a per-post basis. Why should we allow these people to waste the mods' time and degrade the usefulness of the forum for other users? If someone wants to post junk for his employer, let him do so in the newbie thread.
4) Because this would raise the standards of the forum, it would reduce the moderators' workload. Indranil has mentioned that he would like to write an article on the aerodynamics of the Tejas. What would be better for BR--that he write that article, or that he spend his time on forum-moderation issues with people who are being immature?
5) Let the newbie corner be non-moderated or only very lightly moderated. It's the newbie corner, so people won't have high expectations for it.

I'll write more if I have the time.
AdityaM
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by AdityaM »

The news links on the main site have not been updated since Feb. Is this a deprecated feature?
AdityaM
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by AdityaM »

So many members are expressing concern about quality of posts.

One direct reason for excessive noise to worthwhile content is that there has been a proliferation of threads.
China itself has 4+ threads dedicated to it.

Every thread needs postings to sustain. More the threads, greater will be the low quality of posts, since people feel the urge to fill in & create some traction.

In the oldest version of brf, there used to be a trash can thread, where all low quality posts were moved. It had the psychological benefit of conveying to people that they were posting poor quality content, hence acting like a feedback.
SKrishna
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by SKrishna »

Where's the forums link on the home page in mobile version of the site? :evil: :cry: That's where I go 100% of time I visit BR
Guddu
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Guddu »

+100, setting up the "mobile site" has had the unintended consequence of making BRF inaccessible on a cell phone. And sir, the 21st century term is cell phone, mobiles are so last century.
abhijitm
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by abhijitm »

Mobile friendly home page is missing the forum link.
Jagan
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Jagan »

Guddu wrote:+100, setting up the "mobile site" has had the unintended consequence of making BRF inaccessible on a cell phone. And sir, the 21st century term is cell phone, mobiles are so last century.
Now Fixed - .. Yes - unintended consequence!
shiv
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by shiv »

This post is not about Indranil. It is directed at all mods
Indranil wrote:
Gaur wrote: 4. Lastly, we as posters (whether active or lurkers) have to take up responsibility of reporting posts. We cannot simply expect mods to be omnipotent and be aware of each post. I would also request MODs to take up Shiv Sir's point and bring up Forum Guidelines link so that it can serve as an unquestionable reference to call out bad posts.
We will work on that link.
The link is still dead
Indranil wrote: 3. So we should do everything to persuade good contributors to join/stay, and find a way to weed out bad posters quickly. We need the help of current members in this too. I have even higher expectations from somebody like you, and you are dissuading quality new entrants!!!!!
What actions have been taken to get opinions from forum members? Note that all admins were forum members at some time. and inputs from forum members must ideally be taken seriously. Moderation, difficult as it is should not be considered a lifetime job. In once, never out and no one else needed, like BCCI. If it is too heavy, ask members for help. Ask for suggestions. Conduct a poll. I do think that the military forum in particular is an orphan, with no guidance or vision, and is chugging along like a general poop and move chatroom. My personal views may be wrong. If you like I will conduct a poll about how these forums are seen and how they should move forward.
Indranil wrote: 3. We are discussing how to handle GDF. You should hear from us soon.
Private discussion may be going on between admins. We have heard nothing.
shiv
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by shiv »

A long time ago when there were only two forums (no eco and general discussion) we had about 8-10 admins. Now with thousands more members and thousands more posts and two more forum - has the number of admins increased? Are there admins with domain expertise? I think there is no one with domain expertise for the mil forums.

Is there any vision for the future of these forums, or is there a sense of deep satisfaction that all is well? I disagree with the latter view. As one can see from earlier posts - so do many others
Manish_P
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Manish_P »

Sirs, I had registered with a BSNL email ID. I want to change my email for communication from what I had registered with. Is free private mail (Gmail or Hotmail) allowed. If yes, then how can i change the email ID.
Philip
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Philip »

There's some poster by name shankk who if he disagrees with facts can do so in a civilised manner.BRF is becoming the cyber version of Arnab's fishmarket if every poster can make cheap jibes and want someone banned because they dislike his point of view.Someone pl advise that individual or if it is to be a fish market pl declare BRF to be so!
Shankk
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Shankk »

Philip, my post mainly targeting at your constant "selling" of mother russian arms; even in the topic where MBT Arjun was being discussed you brought in Rafale which was out of topic but you could not control your displeasure with India spending that money clearly because you wanted India to spend that money on arms from mother russia. That is extremely irritating. You have done this SO many times that it is nothing but trolling. If you feel so strongly about russian interests you should be ready to hear about uselessness of your posts on "Bharat" rakshak and how others feel.
SaiK
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by SaiK »

breapers, any plans for GDF going public? Lot of good threads is in cold storage now. Look at the positive side of things.. just saying.
ArjunPandit
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by ArjunPandit »

Mod's is there any way of downloading some of the threads completely, say algorithmically to word etc? I am looking to download the Tejas forums history
Manish_P
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Manish_P »

^ Arjun Pandit ji, don't know how to do it algorithmically (am not a programmer) but you can try using a combo of extensions in Mozilla Firefox Browser

I use the exentions 'Re-pagination' and 'Web Scrapbook' in sequential conjunction

After installing the two extensions, i first open the thread in mozilla firefox on it's first page.

Then i right click on the '>' icon next to the page numbers, right click on it and select the 'Re-pagination' option and wait for the entire thread to be converted inline into a single page. It takes between few seconds [for a 4-5 page thread] to a few minutes [if the thread is 50 pages plus].

Once the entire thread is shown as a single page (scrollable) then i click on the 'Web Scrapbook' icon in the browser title bar, select the option 'Capture Tab'.

Note - Make sure that in the setting option of the 'Web Scrapbook', the 'Save captured data as - Single HTML' option is selected..

The process takes place, again taking between few seconds to few minutes depending on page size and finally the pop-up comes asking where the HTML file needs to be saved.

Of course you can skip the second extension and paste directly to Word document.. but the neat forum formatting is not maintained and it is cumbersome to read.

Hope this is of some help to you.

(Couldn't locate a reasonably good option in Chrome. Would be obliged if anyone can share)
ArjunPandit
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by ArjunPandit »

Rakesh wrote:Squadron Leader Siddhartha Negi ..
sir may i ask the is it right to have such database?
UlanBatori
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by UlanBatori »

My previous incarnation used to be able to download the thread entirely, one command. Can't seem to be able to do that with this version of the phorum. Very useful to write summaries and refer to facts.
ArjunPandit
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by ArjunPandit »

UlanBatori wrote:My previous incarnation used to be able to download the thread entirely, one command. Can't seem to be able to do that with this version of the phorum. Very useful to write summaries and refer to facts.
how??
UlanBatori
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by UlanBatori »

There used to be some little button that caused the entire thread to become a single PDF file. No way seen at present. I have to steal one post at a time. Which is better in many ways because one can be more selective.
ArjunPandit
BRF Oldie
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by ArjunPandit »

seems ulanbator has special buttons. Obviously your button works too. Any help in this would be appreciated. One of my friends mentioned selenium tool for chrome. But too old and busy to try this. Esp when I have a hdd that can crash any moment and i have another one to make bootable and create partition for windows and fedora
Philip
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Philip »

What is the td. in Chinese on the Strat. Affairs page.Is it a hacker?
JTull
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by JTull »

BR Main Site is showing as http. Is that expected?
Kakarat
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by Kakarat »

JTull
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Re: BR Main Site Feedback

Post by JTull »

Main website is unreachable!
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