Indian Space Program Discussion

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 11 Oct 2009 17:40

Wow that great shankar ji

. Waiting to hear from you

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 11 Oct 2009 19:35

Wow Shankarosky!
Great going. If GSLV - mk 2 blasts off to GTO this year, your contribution will be in space around earth.

You owe a round of mithai to the Jingos.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 12 Oct 2009 09:39

So Mk1 was with Russian cryo engines, Mk2 is same but with Indian cryo engines, and Mk3 will be improved by having more Indian cryo engines

So how many flights for Mk2 before Mk3 happens?
Will Mk2 be used to validate the engines for Mk3?

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 12 Oct 2009 09:58

Mk-3 is a different beast altogether. Its a heavy launcherunlike Mk-2 which is a medium launcher.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 12 Oct 2009 10:23

Russia,India set to launch ambitious space project

Shankar · Post by **Shankar** » 12 Oct 2009 12:39

So Mk1 was with Russian cryo engines, Mk2 is same but with Indian cryo engines, and Mk3 will be improved by having more Indian cryo engines

So how many flights for Mk2 before Mk3 happens?
Will Mk2 be used to validate the engines for Mk3?
So Mk1 was with Russian cryo engines, Mk2 is same but with Indian cryo engines, and Mk3 will be improved by having more Indian cryo engines

So how many flights for Mk2 before Mk3 happens?
Will Mk2 be used to validate the engines for Mk3?

1) Correct MK 1 was russian cryo engine or cryo acceleration block as it is called in all GSLV launches till date
2)MK2 is with same cryo engine but of indian manufacture and with quite a few indian design inputs
3) MK 3 is a brand new engine new design and fully indian .Apart from C25 engine it will also have much larger solid boosters s-200 AND cluster of earth storable l-40 type engines

MK2 will take 2250 and may be 2.5 ton to GTO
MK3 will take 4.5 plus tom payload to GTO

mk3 is future of indian space -like i said some time back -the turbo pumps both lox and LH2 have been tested
S-200 getting validated
L-40 cluster is being fine tunes before validation
C-25 engine itself is under fabrication advance d stage
stage test for cryo stage next year after engine test scheduled for april 2010

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Oct 2009 18:16

Oceansat-2 Payload is providing good quality data - ISRO Press Release

Oceansat-2 payloads are providing good quality data

All the three payloads on-board the Oceansat-2, namely

* Ocean Colour Monitor,
* Scatterometer,
* Radio Occultation Sounder for Atmospheric Studies,

have been successfully turned on providing good quality data. It may be recalled that the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV-C14) launched from Satish Dhawan Space Centre SHAR, Sriharikota on September 23, 2009 placed India's Oceansat-2 and other six nano satellites for international customers in the desired orbit. All the instruments onboard Oceansat-2 are working satisfactorily.

The Ocean Colour Monitor (OCM), a multi-spectral imaging radiometer, provides information on chlorophyll concentration, and helps locating Potential Fisheries Zones. The Scatterometer, an active microwave sensor, facilitates retrieval of sea-surface wind speed and direction, and monitoring polar sea-ice. The Radio Occultation Sounder measures the parameters pertaining to lower atmosphere and ionosphere.

The data provided by the different sensors on-board Oceansat -2, will also facilitate monitoring of turbidity and suspended sediments, sea-state and sea-surface winds, and meteorological/climatological studies. The satellite collects data over the entire globe once in two days.

Oceansat-2 Images

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 12 Oct 2009 22:48

Shankar wrote:1) Correct MK 1 was russian cryo engine or cryo acceleration block as it is called in all GSLV launches till date
2)MK2 is with same cryo engine but of indian manufacture and with quite a few indian design inputs
3) MK 3 is a brand new engine new design and fully indian .Apart from C25 engine it will also have much larger solid boosters s-200 AND cluster of earth storable l-40 type engines

MK2 will take 2250 and may be 2.5 ton to GTO
MK3 will take 4.5 plus tom payload to GTO

mk3 is future of indian space -like i said some time back -the turbo pumps both lox and LH2 have been tested
S-200 getting validated
L-40 cluster is being fine tunes before validation
C-25 engine itself is under fabrication advance d stage
stage test for cryo stage next year after engine test scheduled for april 2010

Hey, thanks for that! So is there any possibility of a Mk4? Or even a Mk3XL?
Is Mk3 architecture extensible?

If Mk3 can take 4.5+ tonnes to GTO, is that roughly how much it can also take to the Moon?
Other than Chandrayaan-2, what other specific missions have already been designated for the Mk3?

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 12 Oct 2009 23:15

Sanjay M wrote:Hey, thanks for that! So is there any possibility of a Mk4? Or even a Mk3XL?
Is Mk3 architecture extensible?

1) There is always an option for bigger or additional SRBs.

2) Mk III could have it's core stage replaced by 4 Vikas cluster or ideally, the indigenous semi-cryo in development.

3) The upper stage could possibly be replaced with another cryo engine with expander cycle. The current cryo uses a gas-generator cycle and cannot be restarted. An expander cycle engine would make the upper stage much more efficient, weigh less and have higher reliability.

Sanjay M wrote:If Mk3 can take 4.5+ tonnes to GTO, is that roughly how much it can also take to the Moon?

1.2-1.5 tons dry weight and the rest will be onboard fuel for reaching the moon, for the powered descent of the landers (significant chunk) and future changes in orbit of the orbiter. This assuming that spacecraft will be launched into GTO as in the case of Chandrayaan-1.

Sanjay M wrote:Other than Chandrayaan-2, what other specific missions have already been designated for the Mk3?

1) GSAT-8(P) (possibly First developmental Flight), GSAT-10 and GSAT-11 are the only confirmed and sanctioned missions as of now.

2) The Martian orbiter will be launched by Mk-III. The capability of Mk-III would allow a 1000 kg dry weight of orbiter + around 1000 kg of onboard fuel. But I believe that the dry weight will more likely be something around 500-600 kg as it'll be ISRO's first mission to Mars.

3) Possible use on HSF. It's not included in the 12,000 crore budget for HSF but there are preliminary plans.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 13 Oct 2009 00:17

SSridhar wrote:Oceansat-2 Payload is providing good quality data
Oceansat-2 Images

The images look good. In addition to ocean applications, I can see that this is one good weather satellite.
What is the resolution of the Oceansat cameras? Its ability to see plankton and algae in a general area is OK, but the resolution that ISRO's released is atrocious. I am sure that this bird can do much better than merely show plankton concentration off the shore of Gujarat.

I am wondering if there is a military application. IIRC it is possible to locate submarines due to the disturbance of the sea planktons by the submarine's wake. The prerequsite for this will be good resolution of the cameras. I wonder if the Oceansats can do this.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 13 Oct 2009 01:17

How many launch pads exist?
http://www.isro.org/pslv-c14/Imagegalle ... cle.aspx#4
I can see 2 here:- 1 in Left backgound

Praveen · Post by **Praveen** » 13 Oct 2009 01:25

AdityaM wrote:How many launch pads exist?
http://www.isro.org/pslv-c14/Imagegalle ... cle.aspx#4
I can see 2 here:- 1 in Left backgound

Two. Third was sanctioned/under request with GOI.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 13 Oct 2009 01:33

Praveen wrote:
AdityaM wrote:How many launch pads exist?
http://www.isro.org/pslv-c14/Imagegalle ... cle.aspx#4
I can see 2 here:- 1 in Left backgound
Two. Third was sanctioned/under request with GOI.

Thanks.
BR search reveals nothing, but was the indian contribution to CORONAS-Photon mentioned not discussed here before (Page 9 of the link).
http://nt.rian.ru/index.aspx?page=08&issue=issue07

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 13 Oct 2009 08:15

ISRO for research station on moon

arun · Post by **arun** » 13 Oct 2009 12:04

ISRO chief Madhavan Nair takes over as President of world space body IAA

Shankar · Post by **Shankar** » 15 Oct 2009 17:37

Hey, thanks for that! So is there any possibility of a Mk4? Or even a Mk3XL?
Is Mk3 architecture extensible?

If Mk3 can take 4.5+ tonnes to GTO, is that roughly how much it can also take to the Moon?
Other than Chandrayaan-2, what other specific missions have already been designated for the Mk3?

GSLV series as we know it will end with MK3 that is S-200 and C-25 engines and payload upto 4.5 ton to GTO

The next series of heavy weight boosters will have c-50 upper stage with nearly 40 ton thrust mounted on semi cryo engine (200 ton thrust)
ans will be in the energia class of boosters

while work on semi cryo have started the work on C-50 just starting so some time we all have to wait to see it being launched

Fot the next 10 years of so we shall see all the three types pslv/gslv mk 2 and 3 operating then semi cryo will repalce gslv mk 3 maybe

Shankar · Post by **Shankar** » 15 Oct 2009 17:50

Two. Third was sanctioned/under request with GOI

Third laucnh pad at SHAR is sanctioned some time back -schedule for first laucnh is 2013 most likely for the manned mission

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 17 Oct 2009 21:34

Shankar wrote:
The next series of heavy weight boosters will have c-50 upper stage with nearly 40 ton thrust mounted on semi cryo engine (200 ton thrust)
ans will be in the energia class of boosters
while work on semi cryo have started the work on C-50 just starting so some time we all have to wait to see it being launched

Good to see that. Another wish I have is ISRO atleast gives proper names to the launch vehicles like others have done. i.e Titan, Energia, Angara etc. xSLV sounds too bland for something that occupies a special place in everybody's heart.

arun · Post by **arun** » 21 Oct 2009 14:08

Likely mere coincidence, but then again stranger events have been of significance :

1. Moon scientist Stewart Nozette held as Israeli spy in FBI sting

2. Arrested Nasa spy worked on Chandrayaan project

3. Could The Israeli Spy Case Really Be An Indian Spy Case?

4. ISRO rules out threat after NASA spy arrest

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 23 Oct 2009 18:09

ISRO to take 2 Indians on moon ride

The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) has decided to take two Indians to the moon onboard their next manned mission.
.
.
Dr T.K. Alex, director ISRO Satellite Centre, said, "He has to be physically good, mentally strong and should be able to take challenges. So there are so many criteria to select an astronaut. Anybody meeting those criteria and passing those tests is a candidate, any Indian."

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 23 Oct 2009 19:09

^^^ Someone please tell me that is a joke...

part of the article left out by shravan...

The space agency, which first found traces of water on the earth's natural satellite through the first phase of its ambitious Chandrayaan-series mission, has thrown open its doors for applications from candidates willing to hitch a ride to the moon on board Chandrayaan-II.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 23 Oct 2009 19:18

^^ How can ISRO give "rides" to civilians when the Air Force is eagerly contesting for manning the mission ?? It seems dubious that they'd let some Joe of the street into such an experimental program. It sounds like one of those scams where they sell property on MARS.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 23 Oct 2009 19:57

Pathetic reporting. Confusing the Indian manned mission planned for 2015 and CY 2. Shows how little the author putting up the report knows about these landmark events.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Oct 2009 20:17

may be 'cause isro does not want to sound totally mil specific. btw, it could be all eye-wash stuff... like in any normal junta selection process. the selected candidates must be already undergoing health checkps and hormone treatments, and perhaps anti-radiation gene implants

/joke.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 24 Oct 2009 01:23

What is the resolution of the Oceansat cameras? Its ability to see plankton and algae in a general area is OK, but the resolution that ISRO's released is atrocious. I am sure that this bird can do much better than merely show plankton concentration off the shore of Gujarat.

If you mean the OCM-II then I think it even poorer than the 300m that OCM-I had. They must have good reasons to use a coarser one for the next round. The footprint for the scatterometer (for wind speed) will be even larger, though I have not looked into it.

I am wondering if there is a military application. IIRC it is possible to locate submarines due to the disturbance of the sea planktons by the submarine's wake. The prerequsite for this will be good resolution of the cameras. I wonder if the Oceansats can do this.

The short answer is no. Even oil slicks have not been captured with similar instruments.

nithish · Post by **nithish** » 25 Oct 2009 01:16

Dr K Radhakrishnan made ISRO chief

Avionic expert Dr K Radhakrishnan, Director of Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC) here, has been appointed as Chairman of Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), VSSC sources said.

A senior scientist who played a key role in several Indian space missions, Radhakrishnan succeeds Dr G Madhavan Nair who is retiring this month-end.

"I am extremely glad. It is a very huge responsibility that has been given to me. A lot of hopes and expectations are there about Indian space programmes. My mission now is to lead team ISRO to achieve the objectives", Radhakrishnan told PTI.

He said space applications, satellites and launch vehicles were 'programmes of thrust'. Another imporant mission is the human space flight programme, he said.

Graduating in engineering from Kerala University in 1970, Radhakrishnan is also an MBA from IIM, Bangalore, and took his doctorate from IIT Kharagpur.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 25 Oct 2009 18:32

‘By 2015 India will be ready for manned moon mission’

SSSalvi · Post by **SSSalvi** » 25 Oct 2009 19:17

nithish wrote:Dr K Radhakrishnan made ISRO chief

Avionic expert Dr K Radhakrishnan, Director of Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC) here, has been appointed as Chairman of Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), VSSC sources said.

A senior scientist who played a key role in several Indian space missions, Radhakrishnan succeeds Dr G Madhavan Nair who is retiring this month-end.

"I am extremely glad. It is a very huge responsibility that has been given to me. A lot of hopes and expectations are there about Indian space programmes. My mission now is to lead team ISRO to achieve the objectives", Radhakrishnan told PTI.

He said space applications, satellites and launch vehicles were 'programmes of thrust'. Another imporant mission is the human space flight programme, he said.

Graduating in engineering from Kerala University in 1970, Radhakrishnan is also an MBA from IIM, Bangalore, and took his doctorate from IIT Kharagpur.

Incidentally he also must have satisfied the criterion

Dr T.K. Alex, director ISRO Satellite Centre, said, "He has to be physically good, mentally strong and should be able to take challenges. So there are so many criteria to select an astronaut. Anybody meeting those criteria and passing those tests is a candidate, any Indian."

He was one of the qualified candidates for flying in the next ride after Rakesh Sharma's flight.

But that did not take place.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 27 Oct 2009 13:18

Pending Budget Approval for Manned Missions

The government is yet to approve the budget. We have seen the US shunt the growth of lot of its "allies" in terms of space research, stealth and other cutting edge stuff. They are known to force nations to abandon such projects.

Is it remotely possible that the US government can (and will) influence our internal decision when it comes to space research? Or is the budget really too high for GoI to approve?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Oct 2009 13:26

Some good pictures here of ISRO leadership team

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 27 Oct 2009 23:11

Kailash wrote:Pending Budget Approval for Manned Missions

The government is yet to approve the budget. We have seen the US shunt the growth of lot of its "allies" in terms of space research, stealth and other cutting edge stuff. They are known to force nations to abandon such projects.

Is it remotely possible that the US government can (and will) influence our internal decision when it comes to space research? Or is the budget really too high for GoI to approve?

If I were PM I'll simply reject the project and tell them to get real and do things that matter in real world. They haven't even started to work on sending their first man out to space and they want budget approval for manned space mission to moon.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 27 Oct 2009 23:26

Katare wrote:
Kailash wrote:Pending Budget Approval for Manned Missions

The government is yet to approve the budget. We have seen the US shunt the growth of lot of its "allies" in terms of space research, stealth and other cutting edge stuff. They are known to force nations to abandon such projects.

Is it remotely possible that the US government can (and will) influence our internal decision when it comes to space research? Or is the budget really too high for GoI to approve?
If I were PM I'll simply reject the project and tell them to get real and do things that matter in real world. They haven't even started to work on sending their first man out to space and they want budget approval for manned space mission to moon.

You got it completely wrong.

The budget has been proposed for HSF to LEO not to the moon.

I don't why people believe that HSF or anything as such has no relevance in the real world. Then why do we even care studying Theoretical Physics or why do they Field's medal to equation in mathematics which has no relevance to the common man ?? Because practicality can only occur when we understand the science.

Krishna_V · Post by **Krishna_V** » 28 Oct 2009 04:00

Speaking about how far the three-stage rocket had been assembled, Prasad said: "The first stage -- solid fuel booster and four strap-on motors -- has been assembled. The assembly of the second stage liquid engine is under progress and will be over in one and a half weeks. The last stage is the cryogenic stage."

Weighing around two tonnes, GSAT 4 will carry a multi-beam Ka-band bent pipe and regenerative transponder and navigation payload in C, L1 and L5 bands. The satellite can guide civil and military aircraft.

GSAT 4 will also carry a scientific payload, TAUVEX, comprising three ultra violet band telescopes developed by Tel Aviv University and Israel space agency (ELOP) for surveying a large part of the sky in the 1,400-3,200 Angstrom wavelengths.

According to Prasad, ISRO is gearing up to launch six rockets per year and has created a huge liquid fuel storing facility for that purpose at Sriharikota.

India Set to Join Cryogenic Club

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 28 Oct 2009 10:38

Katare wrote: If I were PM I'll simply reject the project and tell them to get real and do things that matter in real world. They haven't even started to work on sending their first man out to space and they want budget approval for manned space mission to moon.

We can individually afford real world problems and space programs, so please don't try to establish a causation between the two. Whatever money ISRO is not getting, is not going to go to enrich the poor of India. OTOH, what we spend on ISRO will be more accountable and will be transformed to technological, scientific, economic and knowledge assets in long term.

My point is more extrinsic and political - will US try to slow or stop the Indian space capabilities (considering its own budget cuts for NASA)?

Prasanth · Post by **Prasanth** » 28 Oct 2009 17:34

Kailash wrote:
Katare wrote: If I were PM I'll simply reject the project and tell them to get real and do things that matter in real world. They haven't even started to work on sending their first man out to space and they want budget approval for manned space mission to moon.
We can individually afford real world problems and space programs, so please don't try to establish a causation between the two. Whatever money ISRO is not getting, is not going to go to enrich the poor of India. OTOH, what we spend on ISRO will be more accountable and will be transformed to technological, scientific, economic and knowledge assets in long term.

My point is more extrinsic and political - will US try to slow or stop the Indian space capabilities (considering its own budget cuts for NASA)?

Friend,

Katare has got a point there. We don't even have the tech to send someone to space yet and here they have the balls to ask for a moon budget. First priority is to send someone to space first. We will be roughly 20 years behind China if we follow the 2015 launch schedule. That schdule will also be unrealistic, knowing Indian perception of time.

I have no idea why even with a redesigned Soyuz as our basis, we can't launch sooner. Shenzhou was also nothing but a redesigned Soyuz, I don't understand why we need 20 years to reverse engineer something.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 02 Nov 2009 04:30

ISRO to outsource rocket-work to private companies.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Nov 2009 04:55

CY-1 Control center

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Nov 2009 04:58

IIRC Godrej already manufactures parts of the body of the launchers. Shankar might be able to shed some more light on this.
Several parts are manufactured by private companies.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Nov 2009 18:31

IIRC, Godrej makes Vikas engines. We also have Walchandnagar & L&T contributing besides many other companies.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Nov 2009 18:37

Before we start patting ourselves on the back too much with our meritorious achievements,here's what a top Chinese air force commander has to say.India should take a hard look at what China is planning for its space programme.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ander.html

Space arms race inevitable says Chinese commander
An arms race in space is an "historical inevitability", a senior Chinese air force commander has warned, marking an apparent shift in Beijing's opposition to weaponising outer space.

By Peter Foster in Beijing
Published: 12:56PM GMT 02 Nov 2009

A top China air force commander has called the militarisation of space an 'historical inevitability' Photo: AFP
China, which hopes to put a man on the moon by 2020, has long stated that it supported the peaceful uses of outer space and opposed the introduction of weapons there.

However Xu Qiliang, a senior Chinese air force commander, said it was imperative for the PLA air force to develop offensive and defensive operations in outer space.

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Experts warn of more space crashes after US and Russian satellites collide"As far as the revolution in military affairs is concerned, the competition between military forces is moving towards outer space," he told the People's Liberation Army Daily in an interview to mark last month's 60th Anniversary of Communist China, "this is a historical inevitability and a development that cannot be turned back."

Although Beijing has also sought to establish an international treaty to control the deployment of weapons in space, China surprised the world in 2007 when it shot down one of its own weather satellites in a test seen by many, including the United States, as a possible trigger of an arms race in space.

"The PLA air force must establish in a timely manner the concepts of space security, space interests and space development," Mr Xu added, "We must build an outer space force that conforms with the needs of our nation's development (and) the demands of the development of the space age."

Superiority in outer space can give a nation control over war zones both on land and at sea, while also offering a strategic advantage, Xu said, noting that such dominance was necessary to safeguard the nation.

"Only power can protect peace," the 59-year-old commander added.

China is currently in the process of rapidly modernising its armed forces, investigating the construction hardware such as aircraft carriers as well as cyber warfare techniques that could paralyse enemy's command and control systems.

Last year's annual Pentagon report to the US Congress warned that Chinese militarisation was changing the balance of power in the Asia-Pacific region.

China, however, dismisses such talk as alarmist and says that its rise will be peaceful. China currently spends 1.4 per cent of GDP on its armed forces, compared with two per cent in Britain and France and four per cent in the United States.