International Military Discussion

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Neshant
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Neshant »

Singha wrote:Image
Image
^^ They are all relying on the US to come save their ass in the event of a war with Russia.

That's what the low numbers of tanks and planes suggest.

Trump is right to ask them to pay their share of the US defence budget.

The numerous (Soviet origin) tanks in Poland are remanants of the Cold War.
brar_w
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by brar_w »

They should not be paying "their share of the US defense budget" whatever that means. This is not how this is supposed to work. The past 3 US presidents have put pressure on NATO partners to establish and then get closer to the desired 2% GDP on defense. More important than this is an outcome and capability-based approach which is currently happening concurrently (define capability gaps and then plug them). As expected, some nations have responded positively and had plans to plug those gaps. France and UK are a perfect example as both have realized that they need to do this. Germany still lags, and despite talk there of being less reliant on the US presence and support, they haven't really backed that up with cold hard cash. Trump is just talking about it loudly compared to Obama and Bush but there should have been no doubt in Europe that they needed to step up once Obama announced that long-term, the US will be pivoting 60% of its presence to the Asia-Pacific (now Indo-Pacific) region of responsibility.

This chart from 2016 is a bit dated, but good indication of where things were then. Last year Greece also achieved the 2% target. This year the NATO Secretary General expects 8 Nations to be at or above 2% adding Lithuania and Latvia and later France as well. Of course the Trade Wars may get a lot more nations closer to 2% GDP by tanking their economies but then that is not the right way to go about it :rotfl:

Image
Neshant
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Neshant »

Documentary from 2000.

Indian army UN "peace keepers" were stationed there but in actual fact were at war with various rebel factions.

Also bunch of mercenary-for-hire organizations operating there.

Manish_P
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Nice graphic about 'Bunker Busters', depicting range, penetration depth and blast energy

Large size image link - https://i.imgur.com/oxlMbad.jpg

Image
SaiK
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by SaiK »

SaiK
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by SaiK »

4. India

Power Index rating: 0.1417
Total population: 1,281,935,911
Total military personnel: 4,207,250
Total aircraft strength: 2,185
Fighter aircraft: 590
Combat tanks: 4,426
Total naval assets: 295 (one aircraft carrier)
Defense budget: $47 billion

3. China

Power Index rating: 0.0852
Total population: 1,379,302,771
Total military personnel: 2,693,000
Total aircraft strength: 3,035
Fighter aircraft: 1,125
Combat tanks: 7,716
Total naval assets: 714 (one aircraft carrier)
Defense budget: $151 billion
https://www.businessinsider.in/These-ar ... 714463.cms
Just for numbers... We need to double up!
chola
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by chola »

SaiK wrote:
4. India

Power Index rating: 0.1417
Total population: 1,281,935,911
Total military personnel: 4,207,250
Total aircraft strength: 2,185
Fighter aircraft: 590
Combat tanks: 4,426
Total naval assets: 295 (one aircraft carrier)
Defense budget: $47 billion

3. China

Power Index rating: 0.0852
Total population: 1,379,302,771
Total military personnel: 2,693,000
Total aircraft strength: 3,035
Fighter aircraft: 1,125
Combat tanks: 7,716
Total naval assets: 714 (one aircraft carrier)
Defense budget: $151 billion
https://www.businessinsider.in/These-ar ... 714463.cms
Just for numbers... We need to double up!
We have double the manpower but a third of the budget. Okay, let plan for human wave tactics :roll:
Austin
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Austin »

A lot of man power is involved in COIN ops in Kashmir and NE , chini does not have this issue
nam
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by nam »

Recently UK went with Wedgetail for AWACS,against SAAB's on paper A330 offering . There was no competition.

Apparently google tells me Airbus/EADS/Europe does not have a large body AWACS offering!

And the first one actually planned is... surprise surprise our A330 AWACS!

It would have been interesting, if our A330 AWACS was already in testing..
brar_w
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by brar_w »

nam wrote:Recently UK went with Wedgetail for AWACS,against SAAB's offering . There was no competition.
SAAB's offering was a scaled version of their Erieye/Globaleye radar mounted on an A330 host aircraft. One of the biggest things going for the E-7 Wedgetail was the incorporation of threat libraries based on EW data generated by the US which could be shared with five eyes partners one of which is a program founder and already partners with the US on development of threat libraries and programing on other programs like the F-35 and the Next Gen Jammer. This, along with other capabilities, is how the Wedgetail differs from the other E-7 variants.

From AviationWeek:
The UK wants to introduce the Wedgetail version of the E-7, also flown by the Royal Australian Air Force, to replace the E-3s as early as 2022-23. The Wedgetail differs from other E-7s as it is equipped with more capable and sensitive systems and operating modes that are only being made available to the so-called Five Eyes intelligence alliance nations, which also include Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the U.S.

http://aviationweek.com/awindefense/wed ... ister-says
Last edited by brar_w on 25 Nov 2018 03:44, edited 1 time in total.
nam
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by nam »

I would have expected a European solution being pushed hard. So very surprised to find there isn't one around. EADS would have found lot of European countries wanting to replace/introduce AWACS.

Very weird EADS never thought of it and ours is the first one on order! A330 is huge, lot of endurance and space for a AWACS.
brar_w
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by brar_w »

Why would Airbus develop something without an underlying demand for it? The E-7 has pretty much captured most of the market in the west and there does not seem to be any demand in Europe that justifies a very expensive widebody AEW aircraft and the US is not likely to want an AWACS replacement. This leaves the NATO AWACS recap which will likely see nations moving to upgrade E-3 capability through the early to mid 2030s while others perhaps looking to downsize with a few players already in that space of which Boeing has the largest (size) offering.

The reason Boeing was able to put out the E-7 Wedgetail without a US need for such a class of aircraft was because Northrop Grumman had a radar system that had been partially funded by the US government in support of de-risking for another program and they were able to secure business with Australia that ensured enough money to complete development. There was no such program in Europe and no customer was knocking at their doors with upfront money to develop a clean sheet AEW aircraft.
SaiK
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by SaiK »

While the Raptor would be the most formidable fighter in the world due to its raw performance even without stealth, it’s now clear to me that even the F-35 with its mediocre kinematic performance will be an extremely dangerous foe in the air due to its low radar cross-section and sensors. “If the pilots of both could carry a 9mm and open the canopy inflight, they would have 15 more kills per sortie,” the senior Air Force official told me. “It's like fighting Mr. Invisible.”
Singha
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Singha »

russia has blocked the kerch strait between crimea and mainland (parked a cargo ship and gunboats under the bridge) and deployed Su25 and Ka52 armed with anti ship weapons to enforce its blockade. 3 ukrainian ships have been impounded.

this happened after a skirmish between ukrainian and russian ships

https://theaviationist.com/2018/11/25/r ... licopters/

effectively half of ukrainian coast is in the sea of azov north of the straits and this blocks them.

the breakaway parts of ukraine , ie the donetsk and lugansk peoples republic also have their coastlines on sea of azov but they are anyways linked to the rodina by land and will fly their own flags.

Image

Image

Image
Singha
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Singha »

Image

earlier this year:
HMS Duncan a type45 DDG leading some nato men-o-war around crimea was buzzed by a formation of *17* russian fighters :)
https://news.sky.com/story/royal-navy-s ... a-11564248

^^^ video of the "flypast" in the link
hnair
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by hnair »

From that brit story above:
The jets flew so close that their electronics could have been scrambled by the British ship's radar system, which may have caused them to crash.
"I think their tactics are naive," he said. "What they don't know is how capable the ship is.
Isn't this one of those ships that stop moving when weather gets warmer than usual?
The issue with the engine is the ‘intercooler-recuperator’. This should in theory recover heat, making the engine more efficient and crucially, reducing the ship’s thermal signature.

Unfortunately, and there’s no better way of saying this, it doesn’t work properly. When it fails, the diesel generators can ‘trip out’, leaving the ship with no electrical power or prolusion.

Only the brits will get a mijjile-fire out of this:
Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said: "As NATO flagship, she [HMS Duncan] has faced down brazen Russian hostility in the Black Sea with jets buzzing overhead, been stalked by Russian spy ships and played a vital role protecting NATO allies during the British, American and French strikes against Syrian chemical weapons facilities.

"Through her deployment, this world-leading ship and her crew epitomised the nation we are going to be as we exit the EU - a truly global Britain which is outward-looking and engaged on the world stage."
Brazen Russian hostility:
One of the pilots sends a message to the ship, saying: "Good luck, guys."
So this was 1 gimpy ship vs 17 sooty fighters. All that is missing is the theme music:

Singha
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Singha »

per twitter the Su25s flying over the bridge were packing ASMs and the Ka52s were flying with long endurance fuel tanks and a pair of missiles or light torpedoes.

heavier assets would remain on call should the ukrainians attempt to force the fight. sevastopol is the major RuN base on the black sea, nearby.
Austin
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Austin »

March is election and Porshenko chances of winning is quite low , so this adventure should help him with little cost and there is already marshal law in place where he get absolute power.
Lisa
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Lisa »

The Russians have put too a stop a plan by the Ukrainians to use Treaty obligations to maintain access to the Sea Of Azov. If this had been permitted as per the treaty, then under the rules of freedom of navigation, I personally think American and British warships would have been next and they would have created a precedence and entered the Sea of Azov. They all seem to have underestimated Ivan!
Singha
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Singha »

if I understand correctly, half of ukrainian coastline including mariupol is inside the azov sea. surely during and after the construction of the crimea bridge , they would have been granted access on atleast a humanitarian basis...international straits incl malacca are deemed international water incl those whose two sides are the same country like sunda and lombok straits in indonesia.

but when it comes to nato warships trying to intrude there under the famous "FONOPS" the game changes. the HMS Duncan was showing its flag near crimea onlee.
Lalmohan
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Lalmohan »

looks like a re-run of the Crimean war being rebooted... strategic choke points don't change over time
balaclava, sebastapol, the charge of the light brigade...
Lisa
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Lisa »

Lisa wrote:The Russians have put to a stop a plan by the Ukrainians to use Treaty obligations to maintain access to the Sea Of Azov. If this had been permitted as per the treaty, then under the rules of freedom of navigation, I personally think American and British warships would have been next and they would have created a precedence and entered the Sea of Azov. They all seem to have underestimated Ivan!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46381166

Poroshenko urges Nato to send ships

"Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has urged Nato to send ships to the Sea of Azov following a naval confrontation with Russia off Crimea."
Singha
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Singha »

someone has gently pointed out that avg depth of azov sea is 7m (its shallowest sea in world) while avg draught of a DDG51/Type45/Orizon is 10m.

so unless marines use hovercraft LCAC , big warships cannot operate there

maybe deep water channels exist for cargo ships to brydansk and mariupol the two ports but rest of it could be shallow.
Chinmay
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Chinmay »

THAAD deal signed with Saudis
The State Department said the Saudis and U.S. officials signed the letters of offer and acceptance documents on Monday, formalizing terms for Saudi’s purchase of 44 Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) launchers, missiles and related equipment.
This was discussed at length last year and brar_w provided great details. This is quite a bit of firepower, given that it is aimed solely at Iran (the piddly Houthis dont really count). Well, if you have money to burn though..
Vips
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Vips »

What about the Saudi interest in the S400 system that was floating a couple of months back?
Lisa
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Lisa »

Purchase of THADD come with consent to kill one Washington Post journalist per year. S400 does not!
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by brar_w »

The Saudi THAAD deal has been in the works for years and moved into final negotiations during the Obama administration. The scope of it was described during Trump's visit to Saudi Arabia and it is not unrealistic given the coverage requirements and reserves. The Kashogi incident had nothing to do with it in terms of the timing of the deal. Both Lockheed and Raytheon have referenced the US Government contracts for Saudi THAAD units coming in calendar year 2019 and the most recent statement to that end can be found in the transcripts of Raytheon's Q3 earnings call. A late 2018 state department documentations is consistent with a contract award to the OEMs in 2019.
Vips wrote:What about the Saudi interest in the S400 system that was floating a couple of months back?
These are different systems. THAAD is a dedicated Ballistic Missile Defense system with a dedicated 25,000 T/R Module X-band radar which is one of the best discriminating sensors in the BMD sphere and can operate both in the Terminal and Forward based modes. Moreoever by the time the Saudi's field THAAD they can acquire IFCN nodes and link it with their Patriot batteries allowing their THAAD radars to guide PAC-3 MSE missiles which they are also acquiring. Saudi's will be getting the upgrade AN/TPY-2's with Gallium Nitride T/R modules and the same processor that is being fielded on the US Navy's AMDR radar. This is one of the the most advanced phased array BMD sensors in the world.

viewtopic.php?t=1238&start=1680#p2195760

S-400 may still be acquired but they serve different roles.
Aditya_V
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

Lisa wrote:Purchase of THADD come with consent to kill one Washington Post journalist per year. S400 does not!
Or pardon me thinking in a more sinisterly fashion here, once the saudis make major payments under this, its means the Iranian regime change will take place.
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Austin »

Video of First operational launch of Avantgrad HGV done today

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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Austin »

Another view of Avangrad launch

Austin
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Austin »

Avantgrad HGV Flew at Mach 27 in yesterdays test : Deputy PM

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5958896
The combat unit of the Avangard strategic missile system is capable of speeds of up to 27 Machs. This was reported on the Russia-24 TV channel by the Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation, Yuri Borisov.

"Recent tests have shown that he has reached speeds close to Mac 30. About 27 Mach he picked up speed," said Borisov. “Practically at these speeds, no anti-missile can knock him down,” the deputy prime minister added.

According to him, the fundamental difference of the Avangard complex is that it is impossible to predict where it will be at the next moment in time. “He can maneuver both at the rate and in pitch, this is his fundamental difference. The antimissile defense is practically nullified. It is very difficult to detect this unit and moreover to hit,” said Borisov.
Austin
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Austin »

Mach 27 is 9.2 km/sec , To maintain those speed at 100-200 km altitude where HGV flies most of time and maintain maneuver in lateral and vertical movement for ICBM range as it flies needs a great capability in Hypersonic Aerodynamics and material/structural engineering because most RV would simply disintegrate due to stress overload.

Quite a very complex engineering marvel the HGV is specially to fly icbm ranges at extreme load and G factor plus in a ball of plasma
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by PratikDas »

Austin wrote:Mach 27 is 9.2 km/sec , To maintain those speed at 100-200 km altitude where HGV flies most of time and maintain maneuver in lateral and vertical movement for ICBM range as it flies needs a great capability in Hypersonic Aerodynamics and material/structural engineering because most RV would simply disintegrate due to stress overload.

Quite a very complex engineering marvel the HGV is specially to fly icbm ranges at extreme load and G factor plus in a ball of plasma
I suspect some Shkval-like supercavitation being employed. Señor Putin himself said that Avangard strikes "like a meteorite, like a fireball”. We all know that meteorite's entry is ablative. The vehicle must carry enough sacrificial mass for ablation.

We also know that no seeker is going to be working through the ball of plasma. The vehicle probably employs some random function for trajectory that coincides with a known target location.
JayS
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by JayS »

Mach 27..? Unbelievable. This is a game chaging event. Is there any pic, schematic exists of the hypersonic glider..? What is the range of this glider stage once its dittached from the ICBM its piggybacking..?
Austin
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Austin »

JayS wrote:Mach 27..? Unbelievable. This is a game chaging event. Is there any pic, schematic exists of the hypersonic glider..? What is the range of this glider stage once its dittached from the ICBM its piggybacking..?
Yesterday HGV flew at more than 6000 km from the launch site to test range but that is because that is the limitation of test range most Russian ICBM light one like Topol-M and RS-24 have range more than 11,000 km , Medium category like SS-19 on which AVantgrad is carried has range more than 15,000 km and SS-18 heavy ICBM has any where trajectory means you can fire over north or south pole to reach CONUS or any where you wish.

No official pictures are available obvisouly but some one managed to get patient drawing they claim is for the HGV

Image
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Lisa »

Austin wrote:Mach 27 is 9.2 km/sec a
IMHO, It is a fantastic speed but needs to be understood in the context of ABM withdrawal by the US in 2002. Primary reason was to allow US testing against targets whose speed would have exceeded 5kps, ie Mach 16 in 2002. Speed alone is not an achievement, I personally think that its maneuverability at that is the breakthrough.
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by brar_w »

Austin wrote:Mach 27 is 9.2 km/sec , To maintain those speed at 100-200 km altitude where HGV flies most of time and maintain maneuver in lateral and vertical movement for ICBM range as it flies needs a great capability in Hypersonic Aerodynamics and material/structural engineering because most RV would simply disintegrate due to stress overload.

Quite a very complex engineering marvel the HGV is specially to fly icbm ranges at extreme load and G factor plus in a ball of plasma
Mach 27 at altitude would have a different speed when converted to km/second depending upon the altitude and the speed of sound. It would be 7.8 km/sec at 80 km altitude.

Here is a summary of the test events and disclosed plans:

Avangard system is tested, said to be fully ready for deployment
On 26 December 2018 the Strategic Rocket Forces performed a test of the Avangard system that includes a hypersonic glide vehicle carried on a UR-100NUTTH/SS-19 missile. The launch, which took place at 12:59 MSK, was observed from the National Defense Control Center by the President of Russia and other officials. The test was said to be successful. It was also reported that the Avangard system has completed the program of tests and is ready for deployment in 2019.

The UR-100NUTTH missile that carried the vehicle was launched from a converted R-36M/SS-18 silo of the Dombarovskiy missile division (the one at 51.030849,59.690144). This silo has been used in earlier tests of the system (referred to as Project 4202). The vehicle reached its target at the Kura test site.

According to earlier reports, the deployment of Avangard will begin with two UR-100NUTTH missiles with the glide vehicle of the Avangard system will begin with two missiles deployed at Dombarovskiy by the end of 2019.

The history of Avangard/Project 4202 tests is a bit complicated. The vehicle, initially known as Yu-70, was tested four times in the 1990s and then it was mothballed until 2001. It was demonstrated to the Russian leadership in a test in February 2004 after which the development apparently got the green light (even though the test may not have been entirely successful). The next three tests - in December 2011, September 2013, and September 2014 (the evidence is mostly circumstantial for this one) - that involved a Yu-71 vehicle (built without Ukraine's participation) were probably not very successful as well. I was told that the designers had some problems with getting the vehicle to maneuver. This seems to be in agreement with what Yuri Borisov, deputy defense minister, said in a recent interview - the program was almost shut down "four years ago" (which would place it at the end of 2014). However, the designers asked for another chance to prove that the project is viable and they got it.

After that decision, there was a known test in February 2015 (probably unsuccessful), and two in 2016 - in April and in October. U.S. intelligence sources were quoted as saying that there was another (unsuccessful) test in October 2017, but this report does not seem very reliable - all 2017 ICBM launches have been accounted for and Borisov said that the most recent test of Avangard was the third one (I assume it was the third successful).

In any event, everything appears to be ready for the first two Avangard launchers at Dombarovskiy in 2019. The total of 12 missiles are expected to be deployed there by the end of 2027, which confirms that it's largely a niche capability. There are persistent rumors about Avangard gliders being deployed on Sarmat ICBMs - as many as three on a missile - but I am a bit skeptical about that.

P.S. An interesting detail that can be seen at 0:05 on the video of the launch - the opening silo cover has something like a piece of cloth (тряпочка) attached to it. My guess is it's a cover of the missile container that is being removed as the silo opens. But the removal method doesn't seem particularly elegant.

P.P.S. The glider is said to have reached speed of 20M or even (according to Borisov) 27M. This sounds impressive (and in fact it is), but we should keep in mind that the vehicle is flying at altitudes of 70-80 km. The speed of sound there is about 290 m/s, which is less than 340 m/s at the sea level (NASA has a nice calculator). So, 20M would be 5.8 km/s (27M is about 7.8 km/s).
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Re: International Military Discussion

Post by Austin »

Very probably the first article and analysis on Royal Navy's Astute Class #Submarine replacement, SSN(R).

Image

Astute's successor: SSN(R)
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