Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

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Austin
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Austin »

Manu Pubby
‏Verified account @manupubby

Acquisition of Russian S-400 by India will curb military cooperation: US.

Air defence system will inhibit ability of militaries to operate together, says US House Armed Services Committee

Image
Austin
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Post by Austin »

Why should buying S-400 would complicate the ability of interoperability ? What has the two got to do with each other ?

How did US and Indian armed forces Navy and IAF interoperate in all the exercises we did with US and other navies ?

How is that buying French & Israel system would not affect the same interoperability ? How about existing system that IAF/IN/Army operates does it affect interoperability ?

We are not a NATO country to follow any US standards , We have our own one to ineroperate among Indian Armed forces
Austin
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Austin »

Typically Turkey is facing same issue with US threatening sale of F-35

Turkey threatens retaliation if new bill stops F-35 sale
wig
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by wig »

Ukraine says kickbacks worth Rs 17.5 crore to Ministry of Defence officials, asks for help

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... p-5197944/
excerpts
Ukraine is investigating alleged kickbacks to the tune of $2.6 million (Rs 17.55 crore) in India’s purchase of spares for military transport aircraft An-32 in which its Anti-Corruption Bureau suspects the involvement of Indian Defence Ministry officials.

On February 13, this year, according to records accessed by The Indian Express, the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NAB) sent a “request for international legal assistance” to the Ministry of Home Affairs via the Indian envoy in Kiev. This sought identification of the Defence Ministry officials who participated in the negotiations, development, signing and implementation of the contract.

The NAB’s suspicion, records show, stems from the fact that nearly 11 months after Ukrainian state-run Spetstechnoexport signed the agreement with Ministry of Defence (Air Force Headquarters) on November 26, 2014 for supply of spares to Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, Spetstechnoexport signed another pact with a little-known Global Marketing SP Ltd for its implementation.

“Despite the fact that the Ukraine alleges 17.5-cr kickbacks to MoD officials, asks India for help terms of the agreement had not been actually fulfilled, the parties signed statements of completion whereupon Spetstechnoexport transferred $2.6 million of budget funds to the account of Global Marketing opened in the UAE,” wrote the Chief Unit of Detectives of the NAB.


and the funds seem to have been routed through some Dubai bank
The NAB has sought information, among others, on the involvement of Global Marketing in the “conclusion and/or implementation of the contract”; contacts, if any, between defence ministry officials with Global Marketing’s representatives; factors that influenced the “timeliness and completeness of payments”; and, Global Marketing’s involvement in the signing of “supplementary agreements”.

Parallely, it has also written to Noor Islamic Bank in Dubai to provide information about the movement of funds between August 2015 and January 2018 from Global Marketing’s account as well as details of IP addresses from which the said account was accessed.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by kit »

Kakarat wrote:US May Block Sale Of Armed Drones As India Is Buying Arms From Russia
India maintains a close military relationship with both the United States and Russia but it is Russia which has provided the bulk of India's military weapons systems over several decades. Earlier this year, the United States passed the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) against Russia for allegedly getting involved in the US election process. This means that the United States could technically place sanctions even on close partner nations such as India for acquiring Russian weaponry.

However, Mr Thornberry has pointed out that while the US is disappointed with India's new military acquisition from Russia, sanctions against New Delhi were unlikely at the present stage. Neither will there be an India-specific exemption to CAATSA. "In the legislation that passed the house just last Thursday, there was additional flexibility in the law for nations that have historical ties and thus Russian equipment" said Mr Thornberry who added that "there will be some additional flexibility that will not just be limited to India but there are other countries that fall into that category".
First it was the Trump administrations hands are tied if India buys russian then sanctions, then drama of asking for India specific exemptions and now this as India moves ahead with the deal

As it is i don't think there is any use for armed Predator drones
The Rustom 2 trials seems going well .. whats Israels issue with selling India armed Herons
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Falijee »

From a Paki Sarkari Paper !

Russia may sell S 400 Missile Defence System to Pakistan despite Indian objection: Report
NEW DELHI - The Indian defence ministry’s view is that Russia , which has already sold the S - 400 Missile Defence system to China, could also sell it to Pakistan, if India reneges on the deal at this stage.In the past decade, Russian RD-93 engines were supplied to Pakistan through the China route for JF-17 fighters despite objections in writing from India .
India will push ahead with its deal to buy the S-400 air defence systems from Russia despite opposition from the US, defence ministry officials said on condition of anonymity.
According to them, the defence ministry will approach the apex Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) for approval to purchase five units of Russian S-400 air defence systems.
They added that the ministry has received no instructions as of now to stall the contract in the wake of the US red-flagging the $5.5 billion deal.
The Trump administration has warned India of the consequences of this purchase from Russia and said it could curtail military cooperation with the United States.
The officials said the CCS headed by Prime Minister Narendra Modi will take the final decision now that both the countries have completed negotiations to close the deal.
The officials said that New Delhi has already used back channels to explain India’s concerns and the need for a strong air defence system given the neighbourhood. The Indian Air Force (IAF), given the advance aerial capabilities of China and Pakistan, needs the S-400 to protect its air bases.
Prime Minister Modi’s National Security Advisor Ajit Doval ia believed to have made made quiet calls to both the White House and the Kremlin to convince both the countries that India is too big a nation to belong to any camp and that it takes all decisions in its own national interest. :D
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Lalmohan »

kit wrote: The Rustom 2 trials seems going well .. whats Israels issue with selling India armed Herons
American pressure
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by chola »

Falijee wrote:From a Paki Sarkari Paper !

Russia may sell S 400 Missile Defence System to Pakistan despite Indian objection: Report
NEW DELHI - The Indian defence ministry’s view is that Russia , which has already sold the S - 400 Missile Defence system to China, could also sell it to Pakistan, if India reneges on the deal at this stage.In the past decade, Russian RD-93 engines were supplied to Pakistan through the China route for JF-17 fighters despite objections in writing from India .
India will push ahead with its deal to buy the S-400 air defence systems from Russia despite opposition from the US, defence ministry officials said on condition of anonymity.
According to them, the defence ministry will approach the apex Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) for approval to purchase five units of Russian S-400 air defence systems.
They added that the ministry has received no instructions as of now to stall the contract in the wake of the US red-flagging the $5.5 billion deal.
The Trump administration has warned India of the consequences of this purchase from Russia and said it could curtail military cooperation with the United States.
The officials said the CCS headed by Prime Minister Narendra Modi will take the final decision now that both the countries have completed negotiations to close the deal.
The officials said that New Delhi has already used back channels to explain India’s concerns and the need for a strong air defence system given the neighbourhood. The Indian Air Force (IAF), given the advance aerial capabilities of China and Pakistan, needs the S-400 to protect its air bases.
Prime Minister Modi’s National Security Advisor Ajit Doval ia believed to have made made quiet calls to both the White House and the Kremlin to convince both the countries that India is too big a nation to belong to any camp and that it takes all decisions in its own national interest. :D
Time to tell the Russkies to go to hell. If it is between the US and Russia, you want the one with better stuff and whose geo-strategic objectives align more with ours.

We gave it a good game balancing sides but at some point things will tilt one way or another and balancing no longer works.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Austin »

Times of Islamabad :rotfl:

They look credible source after headlines like this
https://timesofislamabad.com/23-Mar-201 ... dia-report
nam
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by nam »

chola wrote:
We gave it a good game balancing sides but at some point things will tilt one way or another and balancing no longer works.
The beggars on the western borders won't be able to afford it and Russia will not give a system like S400 for free. It is the usual Pak wet dream.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Karan M »

DRDO will thank the US for their graciousness.
2. Transfer of US armed drones to India could be impacted by India's decision to acquire Russian S-400 missile systems from Russia: William Thornberry Chairman of the US Arms Service Committee
So, the Rustom which was at threat of reduced orders as IAF went "phoren" will again, become the primary game in town. :lol:
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Cybaru »

go go go with S-400, bring on cexy (non-aligned) back
kit
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by kit »

Lalmohan wrote:
kit wrote: The Rustom 2 trials seems going well .. whats Israels issue with selling India armed Herons
American pressure

Exactly ., the way americans and chinese behave is to carve up different countries to their desire .. by pressure overt or subtle with a lot of psycological overtones.They do seem to collaborate well. I am not a big fan the american " Indo Pacific " naming thingie. Its bull st.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Bart S »

From a Paki paper so full of crap (the idea that Pakis can afford to buy anything as expensive as the S400 is laughable), but this is basically Russian propaganda/blackmailing/threats. They should be asked to take a hike, as this is not the way to treat or even negotiate with a strategic partner.
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Post by Bart S »

Cybaru wrote:go go go with S-400, bring on cexy (non-aligned) back
The S400 is bad news for the Indian mil-tech industry and local manufacturing, we badly need that dough injected into our own projects instead, and there is no reason why we cannot build a better system locally. Additionally the quantity/price is a really bad deal as we shell out a lot of money to protect a very small area (possibly just lutyens).

This is a bad deal for India irrespective of what is going on with America and Russia. It would be sad if American pressure worked as reverse psychology to make us gloss over the negatives and actually buy it.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Katare »

This is the only Russian product that I support buying 100%. No iffs and butts.

We should show Middle finger to unkil on my uis one
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Thakur_B »

Bart S wrote:
Cybaru wrote:go go go with S-400, bring on cexy (non-aligned) back
The S400 is bad news for the Indian mil-tech industry and local manufacturing, we badly need that dough injected into our own projects instead, and there is no reason why we cannot build a better system locally. Additionally the quantity/price is a really bad deal as we shell out a lot of money to protect a very small area (possibly just lutyens).

This is a bad deal for India irrespective of what is going on with America and Russia. It would be sad if American pressure worked as reverse psychology to make us gloss over the negatives and actually buy it.

XR-SAM system is a good 10 years from being operational. Won't make a difference.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by sarang »

Bart S wrote:
From a Paki paper so full of crap (the idea that Pakis can afford to buy anything as expensive as the S400 is laughable), but this is basically Russian propaganda/blackmailing/threats. They should be asked to take a hike, as this is not the way to treat or even negotiate with a strategic partner.
They have a communist mindset. they go lower than this.?
This is their normal way to handle things, internal or external.

The superpower blood is still pumping in vains.

Power corrupts mind.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Bart S »

Thakur_B wrote: XR-SAM system is a good 10 years from being operational. Won't make a difference.
Given that there is a list of pending customer deliveries including China, Turkey and existing Russian orders and we come after that in the pecking list, it will easily take 5-6 years for deliveries to take place and a further 2-3 years to operationalize the system, and develop training and deployment procedures etc. This would take a huge chunk of money out of our defence budget and defend only a tiny portion of the country. Would be better to invest in our own platforms, we could start with what we have, and build up the c4I and on the ground integration capabilities while the missing piece (long-range missiles) is being developed.
Katare wrote:This is the only Russian product that I support buying 100%. No iffs and butts.

We should show Middle finger to unkil on my uis one
Why? What is so special about it? And please don't say that it will let us shoot down Paki planes 300 km into their airspace etc, whether it actually can function like that is questionable, and it is anyway too small an order to be deployed on the border, plus if the IAF is in the air and hunting them with intent you can rest assured that their planes won't be flying anywhere near and will likely be parked in Saudi/Turkey/Iran away from the action so that they don't get destroyed.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by John »

Bart S wrote:
Cybaru wrote:go go go with S-400, bring on cexy (non-aligned) back
The S400 is bad news for the Indian mil-tech industry and local manufacturing, we badly need that dough injected into our own projects instead, and there is no reason why we cannot build a better system locally. Additionally the quantity/price is a really bad deal as we shell out a lot of money to protect a very small area (possibly just lutyens).

This is a bad deal for India irrespective of what is going on with America and Russia. It would be sad if American pressure worked as reverse psychology to make us gloss over the negatives and actually buy it.
I am all for S-400 but the deal is being negotiated badly Russians are exploiting GOI and have increased the costs drastically.

Originally plan called for 11 systems now it down 5 systems and no tech transfer either, there is also reports that deal will not include 48N6/40N6 to keep costs as is. But but it's being marketed as in future we can acquire these missiles snowballs chance in hell those missiles will be acquired in future given budget constraints. The minute Russians increased costs and refused tech transfer, we should have backed out rather keep negotiating which smells like desperation and Russians are going to clean the bank on thus deal.

So essentially we are getting a system that at the moment does exactly what MR-SAM does at three times the cost with no domestic equipment. Brilliant...
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Post by Austin »

S-400 system ( brigade ) can have multiple regiment and with many other system , A typical S-400 system in Russian AD will include

S-400 battery: shooting radar with its command post (92N6), up to 12 TEL units + search radar (usually 96L6)) - can be strengthen accodring to evaluations + decoys + cammo nets
S-400 regiment: (up to 8 S-400 batteries) + regimental command post (55K6) + regimental search radar (91N6) + ECM + Passive systems of detection + SHORADs + decoys + etc
S-400 brigade: (2 S-400 regiments) + brigade level command post (Baikal-1M) + SHORADs + decoys + ECM units + cammo nets + passive detection systems .. etc

ITs a huge system not even counting the reload option available with is 3x times We need to see indian specific requirement and what is included and how it will be integrated with Indian IADS , Once deal is signed MOD might give some details

If the 5 system deal is what it is going to be then it will be a huge thing covering easily multiple cities with more than 1000 plus SAMs including reloads and many different radars , C4ISR and logistics ...the foot print of one one single S-400 battery with 12 TEL and Radars/Reloads is is huge good enough to cover a city like Mumbai much less a regiment involving many batallions and brigade

5 systems ( regiments ) can easily cover 25 top cities of India using various combinations of deployment , Just a simple calculations show a Single S-400 battery carries 12 TEL , Each TEL has atleast 4 BIG missile of 40N6 or 48Nx class give it 48 missile plus 2-3 x reloads ( 96- 144 SAM of 48/40N class )

So just one single battery give you atleast 96-144 big missile of 250-400 km range , One Regimens has 8 batteries and one Brigade has 2 regiment , Typlical SAM deployment are layered so it will have MR-SAM/Akash and SHORAD system in different layers. This would easily be the biggest SAM deployment since independence covering all major cities and strategic facility with dense layered SAM and Radars
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Cain Marko »

Why would they deploy s400 near Indian cities? I thought these were already being covered by desi ABM. A recent report said that the reason for the import was to cover Chinese border, which would make sense. Along with A and N command?
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Katare »

Bart,
I don’t know what is so special about the S-400 but IAF chief has put it as #1 acquisition priority. Somehow this system puts fear of god in enemy of any country that buys it. Nothing from Russia is selling like a hot cake except for this system.

Mat be John can put more light on it but seems everyone who can afford it and not tied to Khan wants one- China, Turkey , Qatar, Syria, Iran and India. Only real good products sell that well.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by John »

Katare wrote:Bart,
I don’t know what is so special about the S-400 but IAF chief has put it as #1 acquisition priority. Somehow this system puts fear of god in enemy of any country that buys it. Nothing from Russia is selling like a hot cake except for this system.

Mat be John can put more light on it but seems everyone who can afford it and not tied to Khan wants one- China, Turkey , Qatar, Syria, Iran and India. Only real good products sell that well.
Do you have link for IAF claim of thios being #1 priority i would sure hope trainers, LCA/Rafale, Anti aircraft gun replacement should be higher priority than this.

To my knowledge only China has S-400 and Turkey has ordered them. Qatar and India are in advanced negotiations for the system. Chinese purchase IMO is simply a cover for Chinese funding for the system and in a few years we will S-400 clones roll out of chinese factories. We will all assume once again China has reverse engineered it but in all likely hood they received full tech transfer from Russia.

In case of Turkey and Qatar it is good purchase, Turkey operates short and medium range SAM that are aging (hawk, advanced hawk and rapier) and it is better alternative to Patriot. Their indigenous Hisar SAM system in development can provide short and point defense and S-400 can provide medium and long range engagement.

In case of IAF currently MR-SAM is superior to S-400 when it comes medium and possibly long range air defense (with addition of ER rounds) especially if you factor in costs. Only area for S-400 to fill the gap is ABM and over 150 km range engagements both of which have domestic programs that are in pipeline.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Katare »

I’ll have to think and dig for the link but it was solid that is why i caved into supporting the deal otherwise my trust in Russian capabilities have almost finished.

Saudi Arabia just issued a warning to Qatar that they won’t tolerate S-400 in their neighborhood.

Also why do uou think India win’t get an mini anti ballistic missile defense capabilities too like US patriot systems?
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by John »

Katare wrote:
Also why do uou think India win’t get an mini anti ballistic missile defense capabilities too like US patriot systems?
I doubt after S-400 there is room in budget for purchase of another ABM and will eat into even domestic program (AAD). S-400 deal will likely consist of 9M96E/9M96E2 and latter is comparable to PAC-3 (per ausairpower). There are questions on whether the deal will include the 40N6 or even the 48N6 missiles (400 and 250 ranges missile).

As for PAC-3 it is not cheap Qatar purchase was around 10 billion 5 years ago for 44 launchers and 1000 missiles ( mixture of 2 and 3). For Qatar or Turkey this is a cheaper alternative.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Katare »

Why do you think IAF is interested in it even after AaD/PAD, MRSAM and Akash? Only thing that makes sense is either ultra long range SAM or tactical ABM capability. I can’t think of anything else.
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Post by Bart S »

Katare wrote:Why do you think IAF is interested in it even after AaD/PAD, MRSAM and Akash? Only thing that makes sense is either ultra long range SAM or tactical ABM capability. I can’t think of anything else.
How do you know that it is solely the IAF who is interested in it and not vested interests in the GOI/MOD pushing the IAF? Can you honestly say that IAF has been a major champion of indigenous capability development (as opposed to buying off the shelf) in the past?
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Neshant »

None of the anti missile systems from US more Russia have proven to work effectively in battle.
Could be ending up with a large bill and a false sense of security.
I'd have more faith in anti missile systems if India developed it's own version.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Bart S »

Neshant wrote:None of the anti missile systems from US more Russia have proven to work effectively in battle.
Could be ending up with a large bill and a false sense of security.
I'd have more faith in anti missile systems if India developed it's own version.
+100 This is an investment that will only compound over the years, if built indigenously instead of shortcuts inspired by brochureitis. The gains for Indian electronics/radars/EW/missiles/seekers/C4I along with advanced areas like encryption, AI and automation would be immense.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Katare »

Bart S wrote:
Katare wrote:Why do you think IAF is interested in it even after AaD/PAD, MRSAM and Akash? Only thing that makes sense is either ultra long range SAM or tactical ABM capability. I can’t think of anything else.
How do you know that it is solely the IAF who is interested in it and not vested interests in the GOI/MOD pushing the IAF? Can you honestly say that IAF has been a major champion of indigenous capability development (as opposed to buying off the shelf) in the past?
The vested interest argument is kind of double edged sword because one could also ask if Katare and bart have vested interest in arguing one way or the other? So lets leave it there.

IAF is not a champion I agree but they did buy billions of dollar worth of Akash and MRSAM (half import) didn't they. AAD and PAD decisions are not in their hand anyhow. If they are import pasand and as John and others are saying that MRSAM is technically superior to S-400 than why not buy more of semi-imported MRSAM was my argument? I am not arguing one way or other I am just puzzled what the heck is going on here.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Karan M »

Katare wrote:Bart,
I don’t know what is so special about the S-400 but IAF chief has put it as #1 acquisition priority. Somehow this system puts fear of god in enemy of any country that buys it. Nothing from Russia is selling like a hot cake except for this system.

Mat be John can put more light on it but seems everyone who can afford it and not tied to Khan wants one- China, Turkey , Qatar, Syria, Iran and India. Only real good products sell that well.
Only weakness is that its PESA based systems mostly, which limits range in standard systems against VLO/LO threats, but capable even so. Otherwise a very potent system, almost impossible to jam without huge investment in non conventional EW, and also loads of investment in decoys etc to basically mission reduce the system by having it fire off rounds or its protectors and then use a brief window to saturate it with fast moving attackers. Easier said than done.
Israel is, per several accounts, worried sick about S-4XX entering service with its opponents and has lobbied Russia aggressively to prevent it from happening. Says it all, really.
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Post by John »

I believe Israel is also concerned those missiles (especially the 400 km ranged variant) could be potentially be used as a hypersonic land attack missiles. The solid propellant is far more advanced than what iran has.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Cain Marko »

Katare wrote:I’ll have to think and dig for the link but it was solid that is why i caved into supporting the deal otherwise my trust in Russian capabilities have almost finished.

Saudi Arabia just issued a warning to Qatar that they won’t tolerate S-400 in their neighborhood.

Also why do uou think India win’t get an mini anti ballistic missile defense capabilities too like US patriot systems?
Let me help you saar...
https://mobile.twitter.com/livefist/sta ... 8720854016

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 86563.html

Is that proof enough that the IAF considers the s400 a top priority?
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Cain Marko »

Cain Marko wrote:
Katare wrote:I’ll have to think and dig for the link but it was solid that is why i caved into supporting the deal otherwise my trust in Russian capabilities have almost finished.

Saudi Arabia just issued a warning to Qatar that they won’t tolerate S-400 in their neighborhood.

Also why do uou think India win’t get an mini anti ballistic missile defense capabilities too like US patriot systems?
Let me help you saar...
https://mobile.twitter.com/livefist/sta ... 8720854016

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 86563.html

Is that proof enough that the IAF considers the s400 a top priority?
Austin
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Austin »

Karan M wrote:Only weakness is that its PESA based systems mostly
Its an hybrid PESA and Dual band Radar ( S & L ) 3 different Radar ( 91N6E ( S Band ) /92N6E ( X Band )/96L6E ( L Band )

The basic radar operating in S and L band are effective agaisnt LO type targets

recent details on S-400 system I posted here from OEM few days back

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7101&start=1240#p2267993

Beyond these radars they are also integrated with TriBand Nebo-M Radar that covers between X ,S and meter ( 3 Meter ) band



As far as AESA goes it is under work for upgrade model ( both radar and missile ) of S-400 system under work
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Neshant »

Bart S wrote:
Neshant wrote:None of the anti missile systems from US more Russia have proven to work effectively in battle.
Could be ending up with a large bill and a false sense of security.
I'd have more faith in anti missile systems if India developed it's own version.
+100 This is an investment that will only compound over the years, if built indigenously instead of shortcuts inspired by brochureitis. The gains for Indian electronics/radars/EW/missiles/seekers/C4I along with advanced areas like encryption, AI and automation would be immense.
National development in defence R&D ranks way higher in security needs than getting some (unproven) missile defence system from a foreign source at huge cost.

China is well on it's way to building up a world class defence R&D base.

India has no comprehensive plan for such development beyond blowing huge wads of money on foreign maal.
srin
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by srin »

^^^ Hasn't China also purchased S-400's ?
Bart S
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Bart S »

srin wrote:^^^ Hasn't China also purchased S-400's ?
Yes, but as part of an integrated national strategy to acquire the tech and capability and not just the equipment, their deals with the Russians are generally cover for full-scale TOT and rapid buildup of equivalent clone systems that they rapidly improve on. Also, the Chinese have much more money so its not a comparison with India in any case.

In India's case with the IAF having the narrow perspective of a customer shopping for 'ready' and 'off the shelf' systems rather than a maker willing to work with local systems that are a WIP and not perfect, and with limited funds where we can do one or the other, not both, this is only going to result in an expensive system that we will have to depend on the Russians (who smartly deny us the tech transfers that they give the Chinese) for. And in 20 years when the next iteration of such a system comes around, we will be in the same place that we are in today.
Last edited by Bart S on 06 Jun 2018 21:29, edited 1 time in total.
John
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by John »

srin wrote:^^^ Hasn't China also purchased S-400's ?
Likely for "unlicensed" production in matter of few years.
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