Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

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dinesha
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby dinesha » 23 Jun 2018 14:01

where India is now looking at buying 12 more naval surveillance aircraft P8i
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2018/06 ... naval.html

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Karan M » 23 Jun 2018 16:26

We can buy 12 P-8I and yet we are haggling over 2 Phalcons and over funding DRDO a few thousand crores more to accelerate it's programs. Where are the MOD's priorities??

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby dinesha » 23 Jun 2018 16:51

dinesha wrote:where India is now looking at buying 12 more naval surveillance aircraft P8i
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2018/06 ... naval.html

Is it going to be in addition to 4 order in July 2016.
So 8+4+12 = 24?

edit: OK, Got my answer : Indian Navy to induct 24 Long Range Maritime Reconnaissance Aircraft

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Rakesh » 23 Jun 2018 19:36

Karan M wrote:We can buy 12 P-8I and yet we are haggling over 2 Phalcons and over funding DRDO a few thousand crores more to accelerate it's programs. Where are the MOD's priorities??

Well said! +108!

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby vasu raya » 25 Jun 2018 07:03

MoD websites now on Indian servers

As all these defence public sector undertaking and ordnance factories are increasingly relying on information technology, a sound, robust and resilient cyber-security infrastructure is the priority.

“We want cyber security standards on a par with global best practices. And to start with, we have done away with hosting websites on foreign servers. These are now entirely on Indian servers,” says Secretary Defence Production Ajay Kumar.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby dinesha » 26 Jun 2018 14:30

India and Israel to finalise deal for 4500 Spike missiles worth USD 500 million, reports
http://www.opindia.com/2018/06/india-an ... n-reports/

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby RKumar » 26 Jun 2018 17:53

vasu raya wrote:MoD websites now on Indian servers

As all these defence public sector undertaking and ordnance factories are increasingly relying on information technology, a sound, robust and resilient cyber-security infrastructure is the priority.

“We want cyber security standards on a par with global best practices. And to start with, we have done away with hosting websites on foreign servers. These are now entirely on Indian servers,” says Secretary Defence Production Ajay Kumar.


Congratulations to the team. It was a long overdue task ... it should also be in Modi's achievement thread.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby ramana » 26 Jun 2018 21:31

Hope now GOI officers will get rid of gmail addresses!!!

Former NSA SS Menon used to have gmail address while in office.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby kit » 27 Jun 2018 01:17

Karan M wrote:We can buy 12 P-8I and yet we are haggling over 2 Phalcons and over funding DRDO a few thousand crores more to accelerate it's programs. Where are the MOD's priorities??


depends on perceived threats and existing capability .. as i would say buying foreign system does not obviate the need to develop the indigenous capability, both need to be parallel and complimentary .. problem arises on increasing dependence on foreign systems. if the situation arises that buying foreign prevents indigenous development, by all means, stop that purchase. That's the only sensible thing to do.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Karan M » 27 Jun 2018 07:58

^^budgets.. we dont have funding to do both as MOF makes clear

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Singha » 27 Jun 2018 09:08

a sense of complacency seems to have shrouded the AWACS picture

- no movement on A330 conversion into a awacs role
- no movement on phalcons
- just 3 emb145 purchased - atleast 15 could have helped and held the fort until the future awacs comes

unless we have changed plans and looking to put our radar on IL76-90 which has kind of restarted production and is bigger than the old
makes more sense to me vs a one off A330 conversion with no other clients. atleast the a330 mrtt has a set of customers.

http://www.airrecognition.com/index.php ... light.html
Developed from the Soviet-era Il-76 'Candid', the Il-76MD-90A features a digital 'glass' cockpit as well as modernised flight, navigation, and communication systems.

Structural improvements include a modified wing and reinforced landing gear. The engines have also been updated.

These upgrades give the aircraft a 60-tonne payload (up from 40 tonnes for the baseline Il-76) and a 12% reduced fuel consumption, enabling the Il-76MD-90A to fly up to 8,500 km with a 20-tonne load or 4,100 km with a 50-tonne load.
Image

so with 10 tons of radar and electronic cabinets, 2 tons of EW gear, a conversion might pack in more fuel and have a 9,000 km range which translates to 10 hours of flying time. adequate for our needs I feel though a330 unobtainium might do 15hrs.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Singha » 27 Jun 2018 09:12

I say lets run with this new IL76 as the awacs platform and airborne command post. a330 will come with its share of headaches as very few are flown by indian operators. ilyushins we have been working for 30 years now. capable of flying into all iaf bases in a emergency unlike the a330.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Aditya_V » 27 Jun 2018 11:20

Well if are going for 12 more P8I's and F 414. Why not get our tankers, P8I, Awacs, SOme limited Bombers on the Boeing 737-900 ER platform. Get Engine overhauling and long term maintence contracts with parts manufactured within the country, F-414 manufacture for ordering 100 aircraft from 1 platform rather than these piecemeal orders.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Singha » 27 Jun 2018 20:03

There is no tanker on 737
There is no dish awacs on 737 just mesa wedgetail
And not even remotely a bomber
Its a non starter unless boeing is a indian co and works closely with iaf

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby abhik » 27 Jun 2018 20:24

737 (or A320) is too small for the tanker role, but would have been ideal for AWACS - not too big not to small. The Uber TFTA A330 is 10 times heavier than the Netra (EJR 145) and will likely cost as much (I'm going to pull the figure of around 6-700 million USD a piece from my mush).

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Austin » 27 Jun 2018 20:37

For Tanker and AWACS we need no less than A-330NEO or IL-476 , Persistance is the key

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby arshyam » 28 Jun 2018 06:54

Since we are discussing 737 tanker options, Boeing offers its tanker based on the 767 platform, and this production line is still active. It's called KC-76, IIRC.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby abhik » 01 Jul 2018 14:48

India has a grand maritime strategy, but the naval tools are missing
There is a table in the article with the year wise budgetary allocations by service and revenue/capital breakup that of interest.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby pankajs » 01 Jul 2018 15:20

^^
There is this question that has been in my mind since I first started hearing of the "shrinking" defense budget but I never got around to asking it. So here we go.

There is something called "budgetary allocations" with the stress on "allocations" and there is this other bit that can be called "expenditure". Why do I differentiate between the two? Simple! I recall reading how a large part of the allocation was returned unspent at the end of each financial year during the UPA days. Allocation means nothing if all of it is returned back. That "budgetary allocation" increase was just a trick used to fool people into believing that defense was a priority while the money was quite deliberately not deployed and returned to fund the MNEGRA and other such priorities.

I am interested in seeing the "expenditure" trend over the years. If the expenditure has been on the rise over and above the Nominal GDP growth year on year during NDA-2 then the current GOI is doing ok. If not then they need to be taken to task.

Does anyone have the expenditure data from say 2008 onwards to facilitate the trend analysis going over the last 5 years of UPA vs the last 4 years of NDA?

Am not sure but there is one more complexity here. Big ticket purchases are funded in installment over a period of time. So current expenditure would be driven a lot by prior year capital/projects approvals. So capital approval trend over 10 years would also gives us a useful way to look at the performance of the UPA vs NDA.

Stated simply, the expenditure can be rising even while the allocation is stagnant or falling. One needs data on both to judge the current GOI's performance. No GOI can double the expenditure on whim and not destabilize the budget/finances where as doubling allocations costs nothing if one really is into 420 stuff.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby dinesha » 05 Jul 2018 16:40

Indian Army to soon get armed drones from Israel
https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2018/ ... srael.html

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby dinesha » 06 Jul 2018 11:42

BHEL to partner Ukraine's Zorya for overhaul of warship turbines
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 019_1.html

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby dinesha » 06 Jul 2018 11:43

Jet trainers buy for IAF may figure in Modi-Moon talks
India and South Korea are expected to hold talks on purchase of jet trainers for the Indian Air Force during the visit of South Korean President Moon Jae-in on Monday.
https://www.financialexpress.com/indust ... s/1233098/

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby sum » 06 Jul 2018 12:00

WTF?
2 different types of AJTs now in IAF colours?

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby tsarkar » 06 Jul 2018 12:35

sum wrote:WTF? 2 different types of AJTs now in IAF colours?

Because the fantastic British inspired by the Russians are playing pricey for additional Hawk trainers.

Just read the article - for some reason Basic Trainers are discussed. Does anyone know the status of HTT-40? Kindly reply in Indian Military Aviation thread.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby dinesha » 11 Jul 2018 12:40

All equipment procurements are being planned in a 'balanced manner' for all arms: Army chief
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 935641.cms
Indian Army Chief General Bipin Rawat in a clear message to the force has assured that all equipment procurements are being planned in a “balanced manner” for all arms, so that modernisation needs of one arm does not take priority over others. He adds that therefore all future procurements have been classified as ‘critical’, ‘essential’ and ‘important’.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby pankajs » 15 Jul 2018 16:12

pankajs wrote:^^
There is this question that has been in my mind since I first started hearing of the "shrinking" defense budget but I never got around to asking it. So here we go.

There is something called "budgetary allocations" with the stress on "allocations" and there is this other bit that can be called "expenditure". Why do I differentiate between the two? Simple! I recall reading how a large part of the allocation was returned unspent at the end of each financial year during the UPA days. Allocation means nothing if all of it is returned back. That "budgetary allocation" increase was just a trick used to fool people into believing that defense was a priority while the money was quite deliberately not deployed and returned to fund the MNEGRA and other such priorities.

<snip>

https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/status ... 4388278273
Nitin A. Gokhale @nitingokhale

Finally, it is instructive to remember that the MSC was sanctioned in 2013 without any allocation of specific fund for its raising, just to ward off the criticism following the Depsang episode. It was a diversionary tactic.

Same thing with a slight difference. Nitin talks of Allocation vs Plan mismatch where as I was focused on Expenditure vs Allocation mismatch.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby dinesha » 18 Jul 2018 13:40

MoD plans standard price lists for public sector undertakings
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2018/07/ ... s-for.html
However, reducing prices might not be so easy, say defence industry experts. It is well-known in the international defence trade that buying weaponry over-the-counter from large international “original equipment manufacturers” (OEMs) is invariably cheaper than building the same equipment in the buyer country. That is because the OEM has already set up a production line and partially or completely amortized the development costs. However, the buyer country would additionally have to pay for technology transfer, establishing a production line, transhipping raw materials and the time and effort needed to establish production in India

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Austin » 19 Jul 2018 11:48

Unmade in India

Image

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Kashi » 19 Jul 2018 13:08

Many Pubby sounds a little hyperbolic here? Dhanush procurement has gone to OFB, the contract for helmets and BPJs has gone to MKU. Maybe they are trickles, but cannot call them any less important, especially after years and years if inaction.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Prem » 20 Jul 2018 10:54

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2018/07/19/ ... tanks.html
Army's new machine gun will blast like battle tanks
The Next Generation Squad Automatic Rifle (NGSAR) may replace about 80,000 SAWs (the M249 squad automatic weapon). The well-known and loved M249 SAWs were already beasts — now the Army’s light machine gun is going to get even more powerful.Armed with the NGSARs, soldiers will have the confidence of knowing the new weapon can be relied on for stopping power against sophisticated adversaries who arrive to fight in advanced body armor.The goal is for the weapon’s chamber pressure to achieve similar levels to battle tanks. Recent conflicts have shown that currently issued weapons have not been sufficient when tackling the challenge of forces with defense innovation and access to modern equipment.Even if a threat is about 2,000 feet away and seemingly well protected, the new weapon will blast through enhanced body armor.The aim is for the NGSARs to fire bullets at pressure levels similar to those achieved by tanks when they fire. Rounds will smash through advanced adversary body armor even at a distance, allowing soldiers to accurately shoot while maintaining a safe distance from the threat whenever possible.The Army would like the new weapon chamber pressure to be between 60 and 80 KSI (kilopound per square inch). To put that into context, the Army’s M1 Abrams main battle tank fires at that chamber pressure. Assault rifles tend to be around 45 KSI, so this will definitely be higher.Currently, M249 SAW weight when empty is 17 pounds — this new weapon will weigh less than 12 pounds. The ammunition weight is also reduced. The aim is for the new ammo to be 20 percent less than an equal brass case weight.With the buttstock down, the Army also aims for it to be 35 inches long or less. In terms of dispersion, both the automatic 14 inch, and the semi-automatic 7-inch will have an average mean radius of 400 meters (1,312 feet).The fire control, including day and night optics, will be a maximum of three pounds. The rate of fire will be 60 rounds per minute with 3-round burst for 15 minutes without a barrel change or cook-off.The Army is searching for a Goldilocks solution to ammo fit for the current and future conflicts. It has to travel at sufficient speed, but with enough mass to be effective against enemy forces protected by body armor. 7.62mm ammo has been proving to have too much mass and not enough propellant. The problem with 5.56mm has been the opposite — not enough mass to penetrate armor.


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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Cain Marko » 23 Jul 2018 07:14

Times now is reporting on free jags and mirages being offered by the French to India

https://youtu.be/jdyV9iIyQJ0

Being marketed as a Goodwill gesture by France.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Austin » 23 Jul 2018 19:56

Being used as spares that is how paf manages to keep its mirages flying all these decades

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby pankajs » 24 Jul 2018 17:07

cross post
-------------
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 488972.ece
Army to get artillery guns from September

From September, the Army will be inducting two types of artillery guns into its arsenal. These will be the first induction of heavy artillery since the Swedish Bofors guns imported in the 1980s.

The Army will start taking delivery of the K9 Vajra-T tracked self-propelled artillery guns from South Korea in September and the first regiment of 18 guns is expected to be ready by the third quarter of 2019. At the same time, it will also receive four M777 ultra-light howitzers from the U.S.

“The Army will get 10 guns this year from September. All the 100 guns will be delivered by November 2020,” a defence source said.

<snip>

The first 10 guns will be imported from South Korea and the rest manufactured by L&T in India.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby pankajs » 25 Jul 2018 15:05

Well ....

https://twitter.com/collinslkoh/status/ ... 6800081920
Collin Koh @CollinSLKoh

To be verified: Taiwanese report claimed that ROC Navy dispatching a delegation to India's Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Ltd to study the Project-75 Kalvari (French Scorpene) conventional sub program for its Indigenous Defense Submarine option.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby pankajs » 25 Jul 2018 17:21

https://twitter.com/manupubby/status/10 ... 4151331840
Manu Pubby @manupubby

OFB has signed an MoU with @BAESystemsInc , USA for the 155mm Mounted Gun System required by Army HQ. Signed in August 2017 - MoS Defence Bhamre informs Lok Sabha.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Will » 29 Jul 2018 13:17

pankajs wrote:https://twitter.com/manupubby/status/1022078254151331840
Manu Pubby @manupubby

OFB has signed an MoU with @BAESystemsInc , USA for the 155mm Mounted Gun System required by Army HQ. Signed in August 2017 - MoS Defence Bhamre informs Lok Sabha.


Too many Chinese spies in Taiwan. If this is true whatever was not leaked during the data leak will be leaked from Taiwan. The scorpene will be fully compromised.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Neshant » 30 Jul 2018 07:17

Will wrote:Too many Chinese spies in Taiwan. If this is true whatever was not leaked during the data leak will be leaked from Taiwan. The scorpene will be fully compromised.


How do you think China got its semi-conductor industry.

US -> Taiwan -> China.


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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby pankajs » 02 Aug 2018 14:00

Saurav Jha @SJha1618

And in the last four financial years i.e. from 2014-15 to 2017-18, 128 contracts worth about Rs. 1,19,000 Crore have been signed with Indian vendors for capital procurement of defence equipment, according to India's Ministry of Defence.
Saurav Jha @SJha1618

The Indian Ministry of Defence says that in the last three financial years (2015-16 to 2017-18), '58 contracts worth about Rs 1,17,656 Crore were signed with foreign vendors for the procurement of defence capital equipment for Defence Forces'.


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