Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

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fanne
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby fanne » 02 Jan 2020 20:17

wasn't sooth Africa playing that double game with 155 shells?

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby ArjunPandit » 02 Jan 2020 21:16

jaysimha wrote:https://pib.gov.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=196160

may i request you to please split the post, which perhaps is the longest post i've seen here, into multiple posts. Would be never ending for those on mobile...

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby manjgu » 02 Jan 2020 21:45

fanne wrote:wasn't sooth Africa playing that double game with 155 shells?
whats double about it. they have a product and two parties want to buy it. are south africans mamas of either india or pakis??

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby fanne » 02 Jan 2020 22:23

I was just clarifying, putting rus on blame when fact is it was SA

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby jaysimha » 25 Jan 2020 13:37

Major activities of Department of Defence for the month of December 2019
https://mod.gov.in/dod/sites/default/files/Majoractdec2019_0.pdf

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby nachiket » 31 Jan 2020 03:06

fanne wrote:I was just clarifying, putting rus on blame when fact is it was SA

It would be weird for SA to be considered an "old friend" which is what George Fernandes said. Could be someone else.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Vips » 31 Jan 2020 19:00

Nirmalaji, the defence services need more money!

At a juncture when the nation is confronting multifarious and rapidly growing threats and challenges, very surprisingly, the funds earmarked for defence expenditure in the Union Budget for financial year 2019-2020 were grossly inadequate to meet the requirements of defence preparedness.

The defence budget for the year ending March 31, 2020 has neither enabled the armed forces to achieve the required levels of battle readiness, nor permitted them to undertake the military modernisation that is necessary to acquire the combat capabilities required for future wars.

For the ministry of defence (MoD), a sum of Rs 305,296 crore (excluding pensions) was earmarked as budgetary estimates for FY 2019-2020. This represented an increase of approximately 8% over Budget Estimates for FY 2018-2019.

The increase has proved to be inadequate to allow for the prevailing rate of inflation, the annual hike in pay and allowances and the steep fall in the value of the rupee vis-a-vis the US dollar. The exchange rate impacts the price of weapons and equipment that are imported. These comprise approximately 70% of total defence acquisitions.

Other budgetary parameters too continue to show a downward trend. The total allocation for FY 2019-2020 was less than 1.50% of India's projected GDP for the year, the lowest since the 1962 war with China.

At its peak, during the 1980s, the defence budget was 3.5% of GDP; since then there has been a steady decline.

China and Pakistan respectively spend 2.5% and 3.5% of their GDP on defence.

No matter which yardstick India's defence expenditure is measured by, it is among the lowest in the world.As a ratio of the total (central) government expenditure, the share of defence is 15.48% for FY 2019-2020. In Pakistan, it has been varying between 25% to 30% of total government expenditure. While India has 1.25 soldiers per 1,000 people, China has 2.23 and Pakistan 4.25.

The ratio of capital to revenue expenditure in India's defence budget is far from the ideal of 50:50.

Capital expenditure is that which is incurred on new acquisitions for modernisation, the replacement of obsolete weapons and equipment and expenditure on land and buildings.

The revenue budget is for expenditure on salaries, ammunition, transportation, clothing and maintenance, et al.In the case of the army, due to the large number of personnel on its rolls, the ratio is as low as 20: 80.

Reportedly, this year the three services faced difficulties even in meeting their previously committed liabilities. They did not have sufficient funds to pay the instalments due on equipment purchased in previous years.

The net effect of consistently low capital budgets is that obsolescent vintage weapons and equipment in service are degrading combat efficiency and little modernisation is taking place, particularly in the army despite the fact that it gets 56% of the total defence budget.

The worst impact is the inability to acquire precision guided munitions and to modernise the command and control and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance systems of the armed forces, even as the three wings of China's People's Liberation Army are modernising at a brisk pace.

The much-trumpeted list of Acceptance of Necessity approvals accorded by the Defence Acquisition Council headed by the defence minister of the Modi 1.0 government for new weapons and equipment acquisition projects worth Rs 150,000 to Rs 200,000 crore over the last five years is meaningless without assured funding support through a non-lapsable roll-on the Defence Modernisation Fund to which the budget on the capital account is added every year.

The pension bill estimated for the current financial year (Rs 112,079.57, BE) is approximately Rs 4,000 crore more than that for FY 2018-2019 (Rs 108,853.30 crore, BE). This is more than the capital expenditure planned for the year!

Of the total pension bill, about 40% is accounted for by 400,000 non-combatant civilian pensioners of the MoD belonging to the ordance factories, defence PSUs, DRDO and other similar organisations.

Urgent steps need to be taken to adopt innovative measures to reduce the costs of manpower in the armed forces even if the number of personnel in uniform cannot be drastically reduced immediately due to manpower-intensive deployments on the LoC with Pakistan and the LAC with China as well as for counter-insurgency operations in J&K and some of the north eastern states.

The number of civilian personnel paid out of the defence budget must definitely be reduced by privatising most of the ordance factories and other similar organisations.

Parliament's standing committee on defence has repeatedly emphasised that defence expenditure should be progressively raised to 3% of GDP.

India's quest for 'defence on the cheap' can only lead to another debacle like that of 1962.

It has been empirically proved that defence expenditure up to 2.5% to 3% of GDP has a positive impact on the growth rate of a country's economy provided emphasis is laid on self-reliance through indigenous defence production.

For this reason as well, the government must gradually provide more funds for defence to enable the armed forces to acquire the combat capabilities that are necessary to fight and win tomorrow's wars.

Simultaneously, the government must pull out all the stops to genuinely encourage indigenous manufacture of weapons and defence equipment.

India's aspirations to be counted as a regional power capable of maintaining peace and stability in the Indo-Pacific in conjunction with its strategic partners and as a nation striving for world power status, cannot possibly be realised without self-reliance in defence acquisition.

It is to be hoped that Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman, herself a former defence minister, will be more forthcoming in providing funds for defence expenditure when she presents the Union Budget on February 1, 2020.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby nachiket » 01 Feb 2020 01:24

I have never understood this obsession with measuring the defence budget as a % of GDP. The defence budget comes out of government revenues, which may be very different in 2 countries with the same overall GDP. Especially in a country like India with a low tax base this fact is crucial.

As a percentage of our overall annual budget, our defence budget is substantial and increasing it by a whole lot is simply not feasible unless government revenues see a miraculous increase disproportionate to the GDP growth.

Perhaps a compromise is to provide additional funds for capital acquisitions as long as the weapons/equipment being bought is indigenous or at least a significant portion of it is manufactured in India. Increasing budget spending can be feasible only if it leads to a direct rise in economic activity within the country (even if it is screwdrivergiri to start with).

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Nikhil T » 01 Feb 2020 14:26

Budget 2020

Defense capital budget raised from Rs 1.10 lakh crore to Rs 1.13 lakh crore - just Rs 3000 crore or less than 3%. Not even sufficient to beat inflation.

https://www.indiabudget.gov.in/doc/eb/sbe20.pdf

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Aditya_V » 01 Feb 2020 15:02

Nikhil T wrote:Budget 2020

Defense capital budget raised from Rs 1.10 lakh crore to Rs 1.13 lakh crore - just Rs 3000 crore or less than 3%. Not even sufficient to beat inflation.

https://www.indiabudget.gov.in/doc/eb/sbe20.pdf

Boss the document states clearly last years defence budget was 1.03 lakh crore. So it's a 10000 crore budget increase

Rather than returning funds they spent 7000 crore extra last year.

Airforce actual is 5k crore more than budget and Navy by 3k crore. So perhaps finally the Mk1A orders are coming before Mar 20.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Nikhil T » 01 Feb 2020 15:06

Aditya_V wrote:
Nikhil T wrote:Budget 2020

Defense capital budget raised from Rs 1.10 lakh crore to Rs 1.13 lakh crore - just Rs 3000 crore or less than 3%. Not even sufficient to beat inflation.

https://www.indiabudget.gov.in/doc/eb/sbe20.pdf

Boss the document states clearly last years defence budget was 1.03 lakh crore. So it's a 10000 crore budget increase

Rather than returning funds they spent 7000 crore extra last year.


I’m comparing what was spent last year (RE 2019) to what is proposed to be spent next year (BE 2020). That is the more fair comparison.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Aditya_V » 01 Feb 2020 15:08

Not necessarily, in many cases in the past funds were returned due to lack of expenditure. It is possible then next year also actual will come higher than proposed budget.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Nikhil T » 01 Feb 2020 15:29

Overspending is always a possibility. We can only compare what we read in the budget docs.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby nam » 01 Feb 2020 16:57

Since the usual money is less for modernization complain is gonna come our way; let me list the super critical item our service would need;

Army:
Armor: Arjun Mk1A is to ordered this year; enough T90s
Artillery: dhanush;sarang ordered; atags still in testing; might be ready this year or next.
Mechanised: FICV is not going to be ordered this year
Infantry: Any thing super critical here? commanders are getting stuff themselves as required

Airforce:
Rafale ordered; LCA to be ordered this year; Mig29 & Su30: may be.. nothing critical
SAM: S400, Barak8, Akash ordered. nothing critical left here
AWACS; DRDO project in the CCS pipeline

Navy:
Super critical: minesweepers & ASW heli. Heli will probably be ordered this year
No major surface ships for this year
P75I: what are the chances of completing contract negotiations this year?

So can some one tell where exactly do we need 10 Billion for in THIS YEAR?

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby nam » 01 Feb 2020 17:00

One thing to keep in mind, any critical item which is manufactured locally, will not be held due to lack of funds. Either GOI get's it from DPSU or Indian industry under sovereign guarantee.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Vips » 01 Feb 2020 19:22

No Big Bang modernization for the armed forces in the defence budget.

With yet another paltry hike in the defence budget, the modernization of the 1.5-miilion strong armed forces will continue in its slow and haphazard manner, leaving critical operational deficiencies on several fronts from helicopters and howitzers to fighters and submarines.

The defence outlay this year is Rs 3.37 lakh crore, which does not amount to even a 2% hike over the revised estimates of the last fiscal.(The budget allocation has shrunk and is negative if you factor in the inflation)

The Rs 3.37 lakh crore defence budget works out to just 1.5% of the projected GDP for 2020-2021, which is the lowest such figure since the 1962 war with China. Another Rs 1.33 lakh crore has been allocated separately for defence pensions of retired military and civilian personnel.

Even if the defence pensions are included in the defence budget, it amounts to just 2.1% of the GDP. This when military experts have been demanding that India should allocate at least 2.5% to defence expenditure for building requisite deterrence against China and Pakistan.

The defence ministry (MoD), incidentally, has proposed to the Finance Commission (FC) that a non-lapsable fund should be created for defence acquisitions, which require large capital outlays, because the nature of threats that the country faces “demands complete defence preparedness"

The MoD also asked for a levy of special cess, monetization of surplus land and other assets, tax-free defence bonds and utilization of the proceeds of disinvestment of defence PSUs for requisite military modernization. The FC says it will constitute an expert group to examine the proposed non-lapsable fund or an alternative mechanism for arms acquisitions.

The ballooning salary and pension bills of the manpower-intensive armed forces is, of course, a major drag on the defence budget. The capital outlay for new weapon systems and overall defence modernization is just Rs 1,18,555 crore in the defence budget this year. It is dwarfed by the Rs 2,18,998 crore revenue expenditure for day-to-day running costs, salaries and the like.

One of the top priorities for the country’s first-ever chief of defence staff General Bipin Rawat will be to push for genuine integration among the Army, Navy and IAF, which often pull in different directions, to slash wasteful expenditure and nonoperational flab. There is, of course, also no getting away from the fact that India needs to build a robust defence industrial base to reduce its strategically-vulnerable dependence on expensive arms imports.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Rakesh » 01 Feb 2020 20:36

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/122 ... 67616?s=20 ---> Overall 2020-21 budgeted defence CAPEX for the three services is being projected to be Rs 113734 crores as opposed to revised 2019-20 spending of Rs 110394.31 crores. So, an increase of under Rs 3400 crores as compared to revised estimates.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/122 ... 14786?s=20 ---> The Modi Govt needs to understand this: There is no more room for any grand fiscal or monetary experiments in the name of 'silver bullet' reform. Some slippage in deficit targets will happen, but it is more the direction of spending that'll count.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/122 ... 45217?s=20 ---> And BTW, I would support a zero to little hike in the Defence Budget given today's circumstances. The Dalal lobby can write as many articles as they like on how that will 'endanger India's security'. :D

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/122 ... 72544?s=20 ---> As it is, India spends around 25 percent of its overall capex on arms acquisitions. And as we all know, around half of that leaks to foreign arms manufacturers each year. Which is why there is a new round of 'security khatre mein hain' prior to every budget.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/122 ... 65568?s=20 ---> Stop wasting money on imported conventional arms just because the Dalals make a multi-media pitch for it. If you have any spending capacity left, focus instead on India's nuclear enterprise & expand the deterrent.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/122 ... 25280?s=20 ---> The next five years will see:
1. A major drawdown in arms imports.
2. The winding up of several 'strategic affairs' magazines etc.

But don't worry, @delhidefence won't wind up. Because, it doesn't depend on dalal money to run itself. 8)

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/122 ... 21537?s=20 ---> 'Phorces need the bhest' ka zamana gaya. 'Desh ki tijori hamaare phorces ke liye sadaaiv khuli hi' ka bhi zamana gaya. Ab agar kuch karna hai to indigenization karo. Pure and simple.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/122 ... 84866?s=20 ---> Yes, the Indian Navy had visionary admirals. Yes, it has had a laser like focus on building a credible technical cadre as par t of its rank & file. But one overarching reason why it indigenized was that it always got a very poor share of budgetary allocations.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/122 ... 99393?s=20 ---> Quite simply, the Indian Navy had to do more with less. Once the budgetary limitations and import curbs are felt by the other two services in right earnest, they too will have no choice but to follow suit.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/122 ... 59040?s=20 ---> People don't point this out, but importing major platforms from abroad leads to not just horrendous up-front capital expenditure, but massive multi-year forex expenditure over the entire life-cycle just for maintenance. Forget about even standard upgrades.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby kit » 01 Feb 2020 20:46

nam wrote:Since the usual money is less for modernization complain is gonna come our way; let me list the super critical item our service would need;

Army:
Armor: Arjun Mk1A is to ordered this year; enough T90s
Artillery: dhanush;sarang ordered; atags still in testing; might be ready this year or next.
Mechanised: FICV is not going to be ordered this year
Infantry: Any thing super critical here? commanders are getting stuff themselves as required

Airforce:
Rafale ordered; LCA to be ordered this year; Mig29 & Su30: may be.. nothing critical
SAM: S400, Barak8, Akash ordered. nothing critical left here
AWACS; DRDO project in the CCS pipeline

Navy:
Super critical: minesweepers & ASW heli. Heli will probably be ordered this year
No major surface ships for this year
P75I: what are the chances of completing contract negotiations this year?

So can some one tell where exactly do we need 10 Billion for in THIS YEAR?



Thanks for the list., besides all "strategic programs" are black., they dont figure in the public defence exp. These include SSKs, SSBNs, National ABM tier outlays etc etc , also a very significant special forces "black ops" outlay that is budgeted via different 3-4 letter organisations. So all in all not much cause for concerns, everything is addressed ,even those not seemingly.

The def budget is closely monitored by some interested parties, inside and outside the country. No point in scaring people. After all "speak softly" but carry a d@mn big stick with you.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby manjgu » 01 Feb 2020 21:33

this amount is enough if spent wisely prudently...!!

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Nikhil T » 02 Feb 2020 12:54

nam wrote:Since the usual money is less for modernization complain is gonna come our way; let me list the super critical item our service would need;

Army:
Armor: Arjun Mk1A is to ordered this year; enough T90s
Artillery: dhanush;sarang ordered; atags still in testing; might be ready this year or next.
Mechanised: FICV is not going to be ordered this year
Infantry: Any thing super critical here? commanders are getting stuff themselves as required

Airforce:
Rafale ordered; LCA to be ordered this year; Mig29 & Su30: may be.. nothing critical
SAM: S400, Barak8, Akash ordered. nothing critical left here
AWACS; DRDO project in the CCS pipeline

Navy:
Super critical: minesweepers & ASW heli. Heli will probably be ordered this year
No major surface ships for this year
P75I: what are the chances of completing contract negotiations this year?

So can some one tell where exactly do we need 10 Billion for in THIS YEAR?


I think you are assuming that the allocated money is enough for the pending orders of LCA Mk1A, Arjun, A330 AWACS, additional MiG 29, additional Su 30MKI, minesweepers, and ASW helis. That is a big IF and only time would tell. From recent reports, most of capital budget was consumed by committed liabilities, leaving very little room for new orders.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby nam » 02 Feb 2020 17:32

Nikhil T wrote:I think you are assuming that the allocated money is enough for the pending orders of LCA Mk1A, Arjun, A330 AWACS, additional MiG 29, additional Su 30MKI, minesweepers, and ASW helis. That is a big IF and only time would tell. From recent reports, most of capital budget was consumed by committed liabilities, leaving very little room for new orders.


the budget is always for existing commitments and PLANNED new contracts signing amount in the new fiscal year.

This is what a annual budget is, in every organisation. Not just GoI.

It is never a random allocation and hoping to sign some contract. I always surprised, when I see calls for additional 5 or 10 billion more in annual budget, but there is no major new contract in the horizon. If there is a adhoc requirement like we had post Uri or Balakot, then GoI will provide the money. Just like it signed around 3 billion worth of adhoc contracts to fill up the WWR.

If there has been no money allocated for for example, Mig29 buy, then it means MoD does not expect the contract to be signed this year or it is not a priority at the moment.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Aditya_V » 02 Feb 2020 19:10

Given the stakes involved I don't think any defense budget is transparent. No Government wants to disclose future plans to adversaries

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Nikhil T » 03 Feb 2020 05:52

nam wrote:
Nikhil T wrote:I think you are assuming that the allocated money is enough for the pending orders of LCA Mk1A, Arjun, A330 AWACS, additional MiG 29, additional Su 30MKI, minesweepers, and ASW helis. That is a big IF and only time would tell. From recent reports, most of capital budget was consumed by committed liabilities, leaving very little room for new orders.


the budget is always for existing commitments and PLANNED new contracts signing amount in the new fiscal year.

This is what a annual budget is, in every organisation. Not just GoI.


Pls read this:
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2018/03/ ... cient.html

Typically, the three services submit their projections in the third quarter of each year, for which they add up “committed liabilities” (annual instalments due on purchases previously made) and “new schemes”, for which the calculate the first instalment on new acquisitions likely in the coming year.


Each service gives a projection and then the FinMin allocates budget based on projections and the money available in the overall budget. That allocated budget may or may not cover all the critical purchases (ones you highlighted above). So to say that amount allocated is because the theres no contract ready to sign or that only low priority contracts are left is not true.

nam wrote:If there has been no money allocated for for example, Mig29 buy, then it means MoD does not expect the contract to be signed this year or it is not a priority at the moment.

As above. The third possibility is that it is a priority for the IAF but the Govt simply doesn’t have the money for it. Btw the IAF capital budget is lesser than what it was last year, so this may just be the case.

What we can hope for is that the CDS can now do inter Service prioritization to squeeze more bang for the allocated budget and that Service chiefs prioritize cheaper Make in India weapons, wherever possible.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby nam » 04 Feb 2020 03:21

Nikhil T wrote:Each service gives a projection and then the FinMin allocates budget based on projections and the money available in the overall budget. That allocated budget may or may not cover all the critical purchases (ones you highlighted above). So to say that amount allocated is because the theres no contract ready to sign or that only low priority contracts are left is not true.


The contracts are signed by MoD, not by services. They can specify their priority list, but it is MoD who ultimately signs the contract.

There is no guarantee that a service's priority one item will have it's contract negotiations completed in the fiscal year, for whatever reason.

So it is a case of service priority (new items)+ MoD's potential of completing contract negotiation(actual negotiation, letter to MoD, claims of corruption, supreme drama etc). Most of the arm deals are 10-15 years multiple installments. The signing is not a huge burden, but it is not like buying grocery.

A perfect example is ASW helis. It has been the most critical item & not the most expensive, yet it has taken a decade to reach where it is today.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby A Sharma » 10 Feb 2020 23:35

India – Integrated Air Defense Weapon System (IADWS) and Related Equipment and Support

WASHINGTON, February 10, 2020 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to India of an Integrated Air Defense Weapon System (IADWS) for an estimated cost of $1.867 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on February 7, 2020.

The Government of India has requested to buy an Integrated Air Defense Weapon System (IADWS) comprised of: five (5) AN/MPQ-64Fl Sentinel radar systems; one hundred eighteen (118) AMRAAM AIM-120C-7/C-8 missiles; three (3) AMRAAM Guidance Sections; four (4) AMRAAM Control Sections; and one hundred thirty-four (134) Stinger FIM-92L missiles. Also included are thirty-two (32) M4A1 rifles; forty thousand three hundred twenty (40,320) M855 5.56mm cartridges; Fire Distribution Centers (FDC); Handheld Remote Terminals; Electrical Optical/Infrared (EO/IR) Sensor Systems; AMRAAM Non-Developmental Item-Airborne Instrumentation Units (NDI­AIU); Multi-spectral Targeting System-Model A (MTS-A); Canister Launchers (CN); High Mobility Launchers (HML); Dual Mount Stinger (DMS) Air Defense Systems; Vehicle Mounted Stinger Rapid Ranger Air Defense Systems; communications equipment; tool kits; test equipment; range and test programs; support equipment; prime movers; generators; technical documentation; computer based training equipment; training equipment; training towers; ammunition storage; training and maintenance facilities; infrastructure improvements; U.S. Government and contractor technical support, engineering and logistics support services; warranty services; Systems and Integration Checkout (SICO); field office support; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The total estimated cost is $1.867 billion.

This proposed sale will support the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to strengthen the U.S.-Indian strategic relationship and to improve the security of a major defensive partner, which continues to be an important force for political stability, peace, and economic progress in the Indo-Pacific and South Asia region.

India intends to use these defense articles and services to modernize its armed forces, and to expand its existing air defense architecture to counter threats posed by air attack. This will contribute to India’s military goal to update its capability while further enhancing greater interoperability between India, the U.S., and other allies. India will have no difficulty absorbing these systems into its armed forces.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

The principal contractors involved in this program are The Raytheon Corporation and Kongsberg Defense and Aerospace. There are no known offset agreements proposed in conjunction with this proposed sale; however, the purchaser typically requests offsets. Any offset agreement will be defined in negotiations between the Purchaser and the prime contractor(s).

Implementation of this proposed sale will require 60 U.S. Government or contractor representatives to travel to India for a period of six weeks (non-concurrent). Activities will include de-processing/fielding, training, and technical/logistics support.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.

All questions regarding this proposed Foreign Military Sale should be directed to the State Department's Bureau of Political Military Affairs, Office of Congressional and Public Affairs, pm-cpa@state.gov.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Feb 2020 00:03

I think as part of the Nuke deal and other arrangements we need to buy arms purchases from the US. I think if are to wriggle out of buying either F16/F18 we need to buy stuff like this. Hope we get more details on the Amraams and its seekers etc.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Nikhil T » 11 Feb 2020 01:30


This is for the innermost ring of AD protection for New Delhi. Very interesting that they chose to include 32 M4 rifles with it :)

Indranil
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Indranil » 11 Feb 2020 01:41

GAWD!! What a circus?!! Indian, Russian, US. Where is the planning? Or is it a case of what we used to call in my collegedays, "kaddu katega, sab me batega".

It is also amazing how quickly billion dollar plus import acquisitions move. Meanwhile,...

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Nikhil T » 11 Feb 2020 04:16

+1 Don't forget Israeli in that circus - we have Spyders too. :)

We can spend all our moolah on such gold plated stuff, while the things that will actually matter in a war - MBT tanks, minesweepers, ASW helis or subs will be found wanting.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Cybaru » 11 Feb 2020 04:41

one hundred eighteen (118) AMRAAM AIM-120C-7/C-8 missiles

What platform can launch these?

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Rakesh » 11 Feb 2020 04:50

I am assuming on a vehicle like this ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASAMS

Also This Link ---> https://www.kongsberg.com/kda/products/ ... ce-system/

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Gerard » 11 Feb 2020 05:17

As per the proposed air defense plan for Delhi, the outermost layer of the missile shield will consist of two-tier ballistic missile defence (BMD) system being developed by state-run DRDO, the second layer will be through the highly automated and mobile S-400 systems, and the innermost layer of protection will be through the NASAMS.
The innermost layer will be a combination of different weapons like Stinger surface-to-air missiles, gun systems and AIM-120C-7 AMRAAMs (advanced medium-range air-to-air missiles), backed by three-dimensional Sentinel radars, fire-distribution centres and command-and-control units.
The DRDO system’s AAD (advanced air defence) and PAD (Prithvi air defence) interceptor missiles are currently geared to intercept enemy missiles, in the 2,000-km class, at altitudes from 15-25 km to 80-100 km. The second layer consisting of S-400 systems will have missiles with interception ranges of 120, 200, 250 and 380 km, backed by their associated battle-management system of command posts and launchers, long-range acquisition and engagement radars. This is followed by Barak-8 medium-range surface-to-air missile systems with 70-100 km interception range, and the indigenous Akash area defence missile systems with a 25-km range.

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/24908 ... kHSJNEpCf0

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby kit » 11 Feb 2020 06:03

Gerard wrote:
As per the proposed air defense plan for Delhi, the outermost layer of the missile shield will consist of two-tier ballistic missile defence (BMD) system being developed by state-run DRDO, the second layer will be through the highly automated and mobile S-400 systems, and the innermost layer of protection will be through the NASAMS.
The innermost layer will be a combination of different weapons like Stinger surface-to-air missiles, gun systems and AIM-120C-7 AMRAAMs (advanced medium-range air-to-air missiles), backed by three-dimensional Sentinel radars, fire-distribution centres and command-and-control units.
The DRDO system’s AAD (advanced air defence) and PAD (Prithvi air defence) interceptor missiles are currently geared to intercept enemy missiles, in the 2,000-km class, at altitudes from 15-25 km to 80-100 km. The second layer consisting of S-400 systems will have missiles with interception ranges of 120, 200, 250 and 380 km, backed by their associated battle-management system of command posts and launchers, long-range acquisition and engagement radars. This is followed by Barak-8 medium-range surface-to-air missile systems with 70-100 km interception range, and the indigenous Akash area defence missile systems with a 25-km range.

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/24908 ... kHSJNEpCf0



Any system or different system will work in its intended role only if they *all* work in an integrated coordinated manner. What kind of integration does India hope to achieve with the S400 and NASAMS 2 ? Would be really interesting to find out ., the NASAMS 2 is not just another SAM system working stand alone !., actually here is another crazy idea to protect the S400s using the NASAMS 2 !! :((

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby kit » 11 Feb 2020 06:04

Nikhil T wrote:

This is for the innermost ring of AD protection for New Delhi. Very interesting that they chose to include 32 M4 rifles with it :)


32 ?!! ..really , not missing any zeros are we ?

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Thakur_B » 11 Feb 2020 07:09

Nikhil T wrote:

This is for the innermost ring of AD protection for New Delhi. Very interesting that they chose to include 32 M4 rifles with it :)


It's like topping off vegetable shopping with coriander and chillies :rotfl:

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby kit » 11 Feb 2020 07:18

Thakur_B wrote:
Nikhil T wrote:This is for the innermost ring of AD protection for New Delhi. Very interesting that they chose to include 32 M4 rifles with it :)


It's like topping off vegetable shopping with coriander and chillies :rotfl:



Wasn't there a report that such adhoc purchases never added anything substantial to national security ?

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Cybaru » 11 Feb 2020 07:25

:(( What a $hit show... I hope it doesn't get past the MOD babus chai biscoot sessions. Doesn't there have to be summer/winter/Noclear-winter trials for this? Effin Arjun has to go through all this...

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Karan M » 11 Feb 2020 08:08

This is a very very interesting read on how methodically the Modi led GOI has gone after select purchases and what they expect of the CDS.
Its a very sensible approach, despite what appears to be the occasional political purchase.

https://www.news18.com/news/india/retir ... 91951.html

Retirement Age of Jawans, Defence Budget & Politics: CDS Bipin Rawat Tackles Key Issues in Exclusive Interview

Basically, govt expects CDS to be a serious post with real responsibilities, not a figurehead

You are one month into your new job as Chief of Defence Staff (CDS). What is the one big challenge you are facing? What is that one challenge you did not anticipate?
What I did not anticipate is the pace at which we will have to move forward. I think the government is very concerned that things must move on fast track. I am sure the government presumed that if defence services were asking for a CDS they would have done their basic homework. Therefore, all that the CDS would have to do is move on in what has been done already. But that is not the case, so we have had to start afresh and look at what lies ahead.

We are working on a 90-day or 100-day time frame and thereafter, in the first, second and third year, will identify the areas where we will bring about jointness – in operations, trainings, logistics and transportation. I think the timeline has been set very well and this is the biggest challenge.


Secrecy is paramount, to avoid undue influence or pressure. We've seen this before in other key decisions.

When the post of CDS was announced by the PM everyone said General Rawat would get the appointment. Where you as confident?

I had planned life post retirement. In February, I was to go to the US to meet my sister. I had bought an open ticket in October, now I have lost money on that. I thought since the government has taken so much time in announcing a name for CDS , maybe they want to wait for 6 months, let the implementation committee streamline the mandate and then announce a name. . I have always said I was prepared for retirement after commanding my regiment. That was my ambition. God has been kind…imandaari se kaam kiya to gaadi chalti rahi..

When did you get to know?

On 31st December, the day i was to retire, I saw the news on the TV ticker. But the official call came from the Raksha Mantri.


Forget about 110 MRCA - its unworkable. Expect a second batch of Rafales, and more focus on LCA etc.

We should not look at budget in monetary terms. We need to look at the budget in the management of the finances that are made available to us. I think we need to look at how the modernisation process of the Indian military has to move forward. It cannot happen overnight. If the government was to give you, let us say, two hundred thousand crore rupees today and said, ‘Okay, let us modernise in the next two years’, can we do it? It is not possible because things that we need for modernisation are not available in the open market. It’s not like going and buying bananas and oranges…you’re buying defence equipment. Even the most developed countries which produce these equipment don’t have the numbers that we look forward to introducing in our inventory.

There will be timelines over which you will be buying these things. I think the most important thing is see what you have in the budget, see what your priorities are and make sure that the three services move concurrently with modernisation. It is not lopsided modernisation, that is, one service going ahead leaving the other two services behind. Therefore, if you are going to have all the three services moving forward, the next issue I would like to highlight is, whenever you are procuring equipment, you must always stagger the purchase of all your equipment

For example, if you buy all the tanks that you require in the Indian Army, if you say, ‘I want to get a modern tank or a Future Ready Combat Vehicle (FRCV), and if you buy them over the three years, it will reach obsolescence in the next 15 to 20 years…30 years from now at the same time. The overhaul that will be due will all come at the same time. So I think you have to look at staggered purchases to ensure that the downtime of your equipment is not altogether down in one go.


So basically, the sequential focus on:

1. Ammo + Spares
2. Infantry (BPJ, Guns)
3. Arty
4. AD (Akash, S-400)

was all planned methodically. And now the focus is also on ammunition, hence the private sector.

So this issue of how to manage the budget…yes, budget can be managed. But we need to prioritise. In the last two to three years, we prioritised on purchase of equipment that we needed for infantry, we looked at artillery systems because artillery systems after Bofors had not been procured. And we said, ‘okay, this is high priority’. We looked at some of the obsolescence that had reached in the air defence systems…so we prioritised that.

When we started prioritising, we said, ‘okay, we’ve got the equipment and weapons, but where is the ammunition?’ What use is the weapon system, with the manpower available, if you don’t have the ammunition? So we decided to prioritise the procurement of ammunition.


This is big - the service chiefs state they are ready today

I am happy when I hear from the service chiefs, ‘we are ready today’. What does it mean? They are ready today because they have something in the arsenal in stock. But when we prioritised, we started buying these weapon systems, we started buying the ammunition… something would have to take a hit. So what did we do? We made sure we went slow on our married accommodation project and construction of infrastructure…I’m not saying roads, I’m talking about headquarter buildings and accommodations for various other institutes and establishments.


Rationalizing penny packet land parcels and getting state govts/central to pay back in infra - basically moving infra spend off the Armed forces budget

We went slow on these. We have not done anything of these kind in the last two to three years. But can we continue with that over the years? Therefore, we are working with the government to say, can we, for the married accommodation project and for the infra development, find funds from other means? Let me tell you, the Ministry of Defence has helped us in this regard. We are now going to adopt the New Moti Bagh model for building married accommodation houses and for the infrastructure development that we need the money for. Our aim is to get around Rs 35,000 crore over the next eight to 10 years to meet the requirements of our map and infra-development. That is how we are going about it. It is not from the defence money. WE MAY MONETIZE SOME PART OF DEFENSE LAND. Some of the land that is required for national construction effort, like National Highways Authority of India (NHAI) wants something or the state government want some land for development projects…we have that land available. We can give that land to those people, and instead of and that, we go in for infrastructure. That will help us with that problem.

Are you proposing to sell the defence land and downsize cantonments?

We are not selling defence land. For example, the Bharatmala roads (a central government scheme to build highways) are coming up, national highways are being developed. A very large number of these national highways go past our military stations, cantonments or defence land. When we give this land away, say instead of giving us money, which may or may not come to us, it is better you give us infrastructure in lieu.

We also find that a large number of our cantonments are in isolated pockets. We’ve got small pockets of land which have been given to us in various places. We do not need this land. For example, in Nagpur where we are now stationed, there are small pockets of land…half acre here, one acre there…we don’t need that land. This land is certainly going to be given away to the state government if it wants and take infrastructure in lieu.

What does ‘taking infrastructure in lieu’ mean in this context?

We ask state governments to evaluate the cost of land that we want. Once we know the cost of the land, we tell them, one house for a jawan costs us Rs 20 to 22 lakh and we need these many houses, so you build them for us…


... Read the rest.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Ankit Desai » 11 Feb 2020 10:55

Process for procuring Indian anti-tank guided missiles begins

NEW DELHI: Seeking to cut down the import bill, the army has kicked started a process to order new anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM) from the Indian industry, preferring the domestic route for over 2,000 missiles, a number that could grow exponentially given its requirements.

The third generation ATGM project, which will replace thousands of Milan and Konours missiles that are currently in service, is being looked at keenly by the private sector, with some companies in advanced stages of prototype development.

The army has asked Indian companies – both private and public sector players like Bharat Dynamics Limited – to submit their `expression of interest’ in the program, which will be followed by the tendering process, trials and evaluations and commercial negotiations.

Spelling out its requirements, the army has said that the present anti tank capabilities have been in service for more than three decades and there is a need to catch up with other armed forces across the world that have third generation missiles.

“These systems have better accuracy, enhanced lethality, a higher kill probability, day and night operation capability and ensure better survivability for the operating crew,” an army document on the requirement says, inviting Indian vendors to develop a prototype to offer for testing.

While there are a handful of Indian companies that claim to have the technology, the army is open to them having a foreign collaborator as long as there is a minimum of 40% indigenous content (IC) as the contract will be processed under the Indigenous Designed and Manufactured (IDDM) category.

The army has promised the industry an assured order of 101 launchers and 2330 missiles if the trials are successful but the potential orders in the coming decade could be ten times this number. For example, just last year the army cleared the purchase of 5,000 of the older generation Milan 2T missiles to replenish stocks.

To meet immediate needs, the army has placed an emergency order for third generation missiles on Israel’s Rafael. The order is for 210 missiles and a dozen launchers and is being processed on the fast track basis.

Indian companies like the Kalyani Group and VEM Technologies have already initiated work on the systems, with others like Solar Industries also in the reckoning. Not to be left behind, the state owned BDL, which has manufactured the Milan series of missiles in India, too is ready with an offering. BDL launched its ‘Amogha III’ ATGM at the just concluded DefExpo in Lucknow.


-Ankit

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby abhik » 11 Feb 2020 19:18

^^^
This would have been a perfect use case for Make-1, too bad they killed it. We need a formalize a process by which the government pays for private sector and PSU R&D.


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