Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

International Aerospace Discussion

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1464
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 27 Feb 2017 23:25

NRao garu, seems like both US and China are working on it, though blurting it out is reserved for China, thankful though!

Aarvee
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 56
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 07:43

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby Aarvee » 28 Feb 2017 09:17

wrt entangled photons, did any one read the "The Three-Body Problem" by Liu Cixin?

Sound like preliminary Sophons :D

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5997
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby brar_w » 28 Feb 2017 19:28

Hybrid Wing Body Emerges As Potential C-130 Successor


Full article at source -


Image

Moves to develop a piloted hybrid wing body (HWB) flying demonstrator are gaining traction following powered low-speed wind-tunnel test results and newly completed analysis by Lockheed Martin. The company says the results confirm the concept is scalable to cover a wider range of airlift roles.
First unveiled publicly just over three years ago, the Skunk Works-developed HWB combines an aerodynamically efficient blended wing and forebody with a conventional aft fuselage and tail for compatibility with current airlift missions. By melding these features with over-wing-mounted very-high-bypass ratio turbofans, a high-aspect-ratio wing and lighter structures, Lockheed has designed the HWB to carry all of the outsize cargo now airlifted by the C-5 while burning 70% less fuel than the Boeing C-17.


Lockheed Martin HWB design study indicates scaled-down variant is viable C-130 replacement

Company leaning toward all-new build versus donor-aircraft-based version for NASA X-plane bid

Powered-lift benefit of over-wing-mounted engines verified and equal to effect of blown flap at max engine power

Low-speed wind-tunnel tests indicate ‘robust’ handling characteristics and no blanking on horizontal tail at operational angles of attack

Although the search for more efficient strategic airlift, including air refueling capability, provided the initial impetus for the HWB, the recently completed analysis points to the potential for a broader family of variously sized span loader aircraft. The result “has a lot of people at Lockheed pretty excited,” says Skunk Works HWB aerodynamics lead Andrew Wick. “Because we retaining an essentially traditional cargo shell, the configuration is pretty scalable.”

Under a NASA contract Lockheed Martin looked at scaling down the current strategic airlifter-size HWB to Boeing 757 or C-130 size. “We were able to retain a lot of the same advantages at the smaller scale and design what would be basically be a C-130 replacement that has a 98% improvement in aerodynamic efficiency. That is almost twice the aerodynamic efficiency of the C-130 and 20% better than the 757,” says Wick. Results indicate that “when you couple that with the 757 mission you get a vehicle with almost twice the payload and yet is the same size as the C-130,” he adds.

The configuration is targeted at next-generation airlifters, aerial tankers and commercial bulk-cargo freighters. “Of the three, probably the most exciting is the tanker,” says Wick. “For the first time ever we have a mobility aircraft with better aerodynamic efficiency than the current tankers. That means we have the ability to have one aircraft do both roles.” Given these advantages, Wick adds, “I can say the next Lockheed transport is going to be HWB.
-
-
-
-
-
-

For its X-plane bid, Lockheed is leaning toward an all-new airframe over a demonstrator based on a heavily modified business jet, says Wick, Skunk Works HWB aerodynamics lead. “We feel it would better demonstrate the integrated benefits of the HWB. The donor aircraft approach, which we initially studied for AFRL, represents more of a “purpose-built” approach that would only demonstrate the vehicle aerodynamics and certain key structures in flight.” Wick adds: “We are keeping all options on the table at this time (donor aircraft versus build-from-scratch) but feel that the integrated approach allows us to mature and demonstrate more of the aircraft’s key technologies for transition to a final product.”

The proposed demonstrator will be approximately half-scale but still large, being “slightly smaller than a C-130,” says Wick. Lockheed is discussing engine options with General Electric, Pratt & Whitney and Rolls-Royce, all of which are in the large business jet turbofan or small regional category. Though the company declines to discuss details, the front-runner is thought to be a variant of Pratt’s PW1000G geared turbofan family, possibly the PW1200G.

“We have partnered with the engine-makers to size out the best offerings for this class of aircraft. When we do the X-plane, there are things that will feed back into the concept, like when we did the YF-22 or X-35. We certainly learned a few things doing those airplanes and the final product does look a little bit different,” he adds, referring to the final configurations of today’s F-22 and F-35 combat aircraft.




Zynda
BRFite
Posts: 1295
Joined: 07 Jan 2006 00:37
Location: J4

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby Zynda » 28 Feb 2017 19:42

Chinese have flow prototype of Wing Loong 2 ( :rotfl: ) UAV...first flight. Apparent outside customers are Saudi Arabia apart from PLAAF.

Image

Everything about it looks like a Reaper clone. To my untrained eye, I cannot make out any hard points for fitting pylons.

Here is an image of Reaper

Image

vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1464
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 28 Feb 2017 20:33

Aarvee wrote:wrt entangled photons, did any one read the "The Three-Body Problem" by Liu Cixin?

Sound like preliminary Sophons :D


Read the primer on wiki, good enough. The science itself is somewhat demystified here,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z34ugMy1QaA

vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1464
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 28 Feb 2017 20:36

brar_w wrote:Hybrid Wing Body Emerges As Potential C-130 Successor


Full article at source -


“We have partnered with the engine-makers to size out the best offerings for this class of aircraft. When we do the X-plane, there are things that will feed back into the concept, like when we did the YF-22 or X-35. We certainly learned a few things doing those airplanes and the final product does look a little bit different,” he adds, referring to the final configurations of today’s F-22 and F-35 combat aircraft.



All these risk reduction programs helped their timelines for actual product delivery. In the Indian context, such precursor programs cannot exceed 100 crores I believe, if at all somebody wants to follow that model.

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5997
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby brar_w » 28 Feb 2017 20:43

Yes the US DOD procurement, and R&D/S&T roadmap requires you to demonstrate both a specific level of Technical, and manufactering readiness before you move through the hoops of getting what may be a " good idea" into a "operational hardware". As the article states, with Lockheed's HWB they are at TRL-5 and if they are down-selected for the NASA X-plane program (flights by 2021) they will reach TRL-6 provided they execute on it.

AFRL research engineer Ryan Plumley says the capstone’s aim “was to really focus in on technologies and develop, execute and experiment and show a technology readiness level [TRL] of at least 5 [final stage before testing as a fully functioning prototype]. Since that time, we have really tried to focus in on a follow-on plan. We have done a lot of technology maturation but want to figure out the best way to buy down risk for the development of an advanced, novel system like this.

“The next piece is potentially going to a flight demonstration to prove out the technology at TRL 6 [the Defense Department’s acquisition acceptance criteria before the technology maturation and risk-reduction window closes for a new design],” says Plumley, who was speaking at the recent American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics SciTech conference in Grapevine, Texas. “By going to a larger scale to see if we have similar matching to what we found in ground testing, we will be able to say it is ready to transition to a development program down the road.”


Image

Image
Last edited by brar_w on 28 Feb 2017 22:54, edited 1 time in total.

vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1464
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 28 Feb 2017 21:26

Maybe phases through TRL1-4 can be done at the University grad/undergrad level but then mentors with some continuity are key to such projects, in India the govt. sector is doing that for some projects, haven't heard any from the private sector.

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5997
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby brar_w » 28 Feb 2017 22:51

Even in the US System a lot of DOD and industry funded Basic S&T research applicable to defense is done at and by academia.

Aarvee
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 56
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 07:43

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby Aarvee » 01 Mar 2017 05:39

Read the primer on wiki, good enough. The science itself is somewhat demystified here,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z34ugMy1QaA


You know how scientists try and make science fiction real, I thought it was interesting that a Chinese authors pens a hugely successful triology about a distant alien civilisation that sends a photon to earth to spy on humans, that is quantum entangled with a sister photon. But both are not just ordinary photons, they are unwrapped into multiple dimensions and super computers etched inside and folded back into normal 3D. Pretty cool stuff. And with in a few years, chinese engineers/scientists claim success with quantum entangled photon based radars !

TSJones
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3022
Joined: 14 Oct 1999 11:31

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby TSJones » 01 Mar 2017 07:13

And with in a few years, chinese engineers/scientists claim success with quantum entangled photon based radars !


when DARPA starts releasing research contracts I will take this for serious. does anybody know?

Aarvee
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 56
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 07:43

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby Aarvee » 01 Mar 2017 07:34

Not sure about tangible physical products in testing but a little digging on google scholar turns up a group in NWU (probably) working in collaboration with said agency who are quite advanced in the field. Have a look at their published papers.

Slide 38:

http://www.optics.rochester.edu/workgro ... 07-MIT.ppt

edit: added url link

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5997
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby brar_w » 01 Mar 2017 17:00

A detailed article on Israel's F-35's -

The Israeli F-35s
PDF : LINK


Induction/Delivery schedule -

Image

vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1464
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 01 Mar 2017 22:52

Aarvee wrote:Not sure about tangible physical products in testing but a little digging on google scholar turns up a group in NWU (probably) working in collaboration with said agency who are quite advanced in the field. Have a look at their published papers.

Slide 38:

http://www.optics.rochester.edu/workgro ... 07-MIT.ppt

edit: added url link


Most of the stuff went right above me, one difference I see though is that in the paper, the receiver is mentioned as separated from the transmitter, and the radar return is enhanced with 'quantum sensing', whatever that means

while the Chinese one talks about the second entangled photon beam being fed to the detector(s) (as per the news which is not a science publication), and entirely relying on the entanglement phenomena to create the radar return image. I don't know how they get the range part unless there is a series of detectors sampling this beam at time intervals that correspond to distances for the transmitted beam before losing coherence which they claim is 100km for the transmitted beam. On that basis they say the target will not be knowing if its being tracked.

one of the fundamental issues they say is that the act of detection itself causes the entangled photon to decohere so its as good as consumed, maybe they mitigate that with a strong enough flux of the photon beam. btw, this is just playing along not supporting the Chinese claims.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15866
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby NRao » 01 Mar 2017 23:07

Can anyone kidnap the photon they send? After all one of the characteristics of a 5th gen skin is to capture the radar energy and dissipate it within the skin.

vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1464
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 02 Mar 2017 00:01

if there is a timelapse video, I can see the photon in frame n and its missing in frame n+1, somebody stole it then, and if that is an array of photons then one can see a pattern, here the timelapse video is coming from a CCTV focused on the entangled cousin who is held captive and not on the one who went to the oblivion or got captured by an eagle, so the story goes.

vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1464
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 02 Mar 2017 00:35

brar_w wrote:
Image



wonder what happened to the V-44 concept?

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3508
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby Kartik » 02 Mar 2017 03:01

Northstar Aviation pitches 407 MRH for Aussie SOF requirement

NorthStar Aviation (NSA) is pitching its 407 Multi-Role Helicopter (MRH) light attack and armed reconnaissance platform to the Australian special operations forces (SOF), a company official told Jane's on 28 February.

James Lett, Director technical Services at the Abu Dhabi-based company, said that NSA is showcasing the 407 MRH at the Avalon Airshow on the outskirts of Melbourne so as to attract the attention of the Australian Department of Defence (DOD) with a view to pitching the platform as a SOF solution.

"There have been no official discussion with the Australians yet, but the special forces requirement is certainly one that would suit the 407 MRH," Lett said, adding that while the DOD's requirements are still in their early stages, funds have been allocated for the SOF helicopter requirement.

Australia's requirement for a SOF helicopter came to light in the country's Defence Integrated Investment Programme (DIIP) that was published in 2016. As noted in the DIIP, the new fleet of deployable light reconnaissance and attack helicopters to provide air mobility support for SOF missions is due to be fielded from about 2025. As previously reported by Jane's, the helicopters will be able to be deployed rapidly by a Royal Australian Air Force Boeing C-17 Globemaster III heavy transport as a small force element of three-to-four aircraft and personnel. The programme timeframe was listed as 2025-28, with a budget range of AUD2-3 billion (USD1.5 to 2.3 billion).

As noted by Lett, performance specifications for the SOF helicopter have not been disclosed. With the last of 30 407 MRH and 15 training helicopters having recently been delivered to the United Arab Emirates (UAE), NAS considers itself to be in an optimum position to secure the Australian SOF requirement, with Lett saying that feedback from the UAE following combat operations has been "very positive".


Image

Could anyone do a rough comparison between the 407 MRH and the IA and IAF's Rudra?

Aarvee
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 56
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 07:43

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby Aarvee » 02 Mar 2017 07:13

NRao wrote:Can anyone kidnap the photon they send? After all one of the characteristics of a 5th gen skin is to capture the radar energy and dissipate it within the skin.


UNBREAKABLE LOCK
Apart from absorbing or reflecting away its radio beams, conventional radar can also be jammed by transmitting ‘white noise’ on the same frequencies.
This isn’t possible with entangled photons.
While the photons are separated by their beam, they retain their quantum link.
Attempting to break that link would be a giveaway. And any attempt to distort the behaviour of one of the pair would be equally noticeable.
The same applies to advanced materials.
Where modern composites can ‘trap’ radio waves within their molecular structure, whatever happens to an entangled photon would be replicated — and measured — in its paired mate back at the radar site.


http://www.news.com.au/technology/innov ... 54b6f0fbab


FWIW, this website is more of a tabloid than a real news site

Aarvee
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 56
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 07:43

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby Aarvee » 02 Mar 2017 07:16

Most of the stuff went right above me, one difference I see though is that in the paper, the receiver is mentioned as separated from the transmitter, and the radar return is enhanced with 'quantum sensing', whatever that means


Do we have a Sheldon Cooper to explain :D

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5852
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby Indranil » 02 Mar 2017 09:10

Kartik wrote:Northstar Aviation pitches 407 MRH for Aussie SOF requirement

NorthStar Aviation (NSA) is pitching its 407 Multi-Role Helicopter (MRH) light attack and armed reconnaissance platform to the Australian special operations forces (SOF), a company official told Jane's on 28 February.

James Lett, Director technical Services at the Abu Dhabi-based company, said that NSA is showcasing the 407 MRH at the Avalon Airshow on the outskirts of Melbourne so as to attract the attention of the Australian Department of Defence (DOD) with a view to pitching the platform as a SOF solution.

"There have been no official discussion with the Australians yet, but the special forces requirement is certainly one that would suit the 407 MRH," Lett said, adding that while the DOD's requirements are still in their early stages, funds have been allocated for the SOF helicopter requirement.

Australia's requirement for a SOF helicopter came to light in the country's Defence Integrated Investment Programme (DIIP) that was published in 2016. As noted in the DIIP, the new fleet of deployable light reconnaissance and attack helicopters to provide air mobility support for SOF missions is due to be fielded from about 2025. As previously reported by Jane's, the helicopters will be able to be deployed rapidly by a Royal Australian Air Force Boeing C-17 Globemaster III heavy transport as a small force element of three-to-four aircraft and personnel. The programme timeframe was listed as 2025-28, with a budget range of AUD2-3 billion (USD1.5 to 2.3 billion).

As noted by Lett, performance specifications for the SOF helicopter have not been disclosed. With the last of 30 407 MRH and 15 training helicopters having recently been delivered to the United Arab Emirates (UAE), NAS considers itself to be in an optimum position to secure the Australian SOF requirement, with Lett saying that feedback from the UAE following combat operations has been "very positive".


Image

Could anyone do a rough comparison between the 407 MRH and the IA and IAF's Rudra?

This will roughly be an armed LUH equivalent.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15866
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby NRao » 02 Mar 2017 10:05

Aarvee wrote:
NRao wrote:Can anyone kidnap the photon they send? After all one of the characteristics of a 5th gen skin is to capture the radar energy and dissipate it within the skin.


UNBREAKABLE LOCK
Apart from absorbing or reflecting away its radio beams, conventional radar can also be jammed by transmitting ‘white noise’ on the same frequencies.
This isn’t possible with entangled photons.
While the photons are separated by their beam, they retain their quantum link.
Attempting to break that link would be a giveaway. And any attempt to distort the behaviour of one of the pair would be equally noticeable.
The same applies to advanced materials.
Where modern composites can ‘trap’ radio waves within their molecular structure, whatever happens to an entangled photon would be replicated — and measured — in its paired mate back at the radar site.


http://www.news.com.au/technology/innov ... 54b6f0fbab


FWIW, this website is more of a tabloid than a real news site



Thanks!!

Actually, it was helpful. Got the ball rolling. LM itself has a similar project.

China placed a couple of quantum satellites in space.

Very, very interesting times.

TSJones
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3022
Joined: 14 Oct 1999 11:31

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby TSJones » 02 Mar 2017 12:38

is it similar to photon torpedoes?

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15866
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby NRao » 02 Mar 2017 23:22

GeorgeWelch wrote:http://www.thenational.ae/business/economy/idex-2017-uae-and-russia-to-develop-fighter-jet

Russia plans to develop a fifth generation joint light fighter aircraft with the UAE as Moscow seeks to boost its military exports to the region.

Sergey Chemezov, the chief executive of Rostec, the country’s largest military complex, said an initial agreement has been signed and work was expected to start on the "long-term project" as early as next year.

. . . .

The fifth generation aircraft that is set to be developed with the UAE is expected to be a variation of the MiG-29 fighter jet.


So Russia is now developing the T-50, a 'completely different' FGFA with India and yet another '5th gen' fighter with the UAE (possibly a MiG-29 variant)


Russia, UAE To Partner On Fighter Development

Russia and the United Arab Emirates will partner on the development of a new fighter aircraft reportedly based on the MiG-29.
Details of the plans emerged during the IDEX defense show here on Feb. 21 during a visit by Russian Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov. He told the TASS news agency that the two countries had signed an agreement on military industrial cooperation.

“This will enable us to push ahead with the fifth-generation jet project, in which the UAE will participate,” Manturov said.

His comments were confirmed by Sergey Chemezov, the CEO of Russian state company Rostec. Chemezov said the program could take seven-eight years to develop and that it would be based on a development of the MiG-29.

The Emirates News Agency described the agreement as the “procurement, development and partial manufacturing of advanced air, land and naval equipment to serve the requirements of the UAE armed forces.”

............................................


NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15866
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby NRao » 02 Mar 2017 23:26

Green Light For USAF Fighter Study Expected Soon

U.S. Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein is expected in the next few weeks to green light a study on a potential low-cost, light-attack fighter fleet to augment the A-10 Warthog and other aircraft flying close-air support (CAS) missions in Iraq and Syria, a top general says.
Meanwhile, the service will abandon plans to immediately pursue a more robust one-for-one Warthog replacement, as the venerable attack plane will continue flying well into the 2020s.

A final decision on whether to actually procure a commercial-off-the-shelf light fighter is still far off. But these developments are the latest in the Air Force’s evolving strategy to continue ensuring critical air support for ground troops in the low-end fight, even as the proliferation of sophisticated anti-aircraft weapons drives investment in high-end fighters like the F-35.

Goldfein’s seal of approval would kick off a long-anticipated effort to study the art of the possible for a potential 300-aircraft light fighter fleet, also known as “O-AX.” Top service officials have been hinting for months that such a study is in the works, one likely to inform an emerging plan to consider buying a low-end fighter to help fight Islamic State terrorists in the Middle East.

.................................................


NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15866
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby NRao » 02 Mar 2017 23:28


NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15866
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby NRao » 02 Mar 2017 23:31

AAF Conducts Majority Of Air Missions In Afghanistan

The Afghan Air Force (AAF) is conducting more air missions and air strikes than the U.S. Air Force in Afghanistan, Brigadier General Charles S. Cleveland, spokesman for NATO's Resolute Support training mission, revealed March 1.

Image
Department of Defense photo

Cleveland said the AAF has grown from zero fixed wing combat aircraft on March 1, 2016, to eight A-29s presently conducting combat operations daily throughout Afghanistan, to be joined by another eight aircraft by the summer/early fall. He added that the AAF has the pilots and maintenance personnel to conduct these operations as well as terminal air controllers calling in air strikes daily.

..................................................


TSJones
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3022
Joined: 14 Oct 1999 11:31

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby TSJones » 02 Mar 2017 23:37

concerning chinese quantum radar......I remember when chinese claimed they could do open heart surgery w/o general anesthesia using only acupuncture........uh huh......OK.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15866
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby NRao » 03 Mar 2017 01:41


vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1464
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 03 Mar 2017 03:54

NRao wrote:
Image


what kind of resistance is it seeing? and how different is its mission compared to a drone?

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5997
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby brar_w » 03 Mar 2017 06:52

A bit more information on the General Electric AVEN ( Axisymmetric Vectoring Exhaust Nozzle) and the Pratt and Whitney Pitch/Yaw Balanced Beam Nozzle prototyped and flight tested. The GE AVEN could actually be the first 3D TVC nozzle put on a fighter (flight testing). Although they completed their ground testing by 1993 the Joint USAF and GE funded program was pushed back a year to 18 months for budget reasons.

Thrust vectoring nozzles give pilots an edge - Puttre, Michael New York, March 1993

General Electric Aircraft Engines (Cincinnati) and the Pratt & Whitney Government Engines and Space Propulsion division (West Palm Beach, Fla.) have developed flight-ready thrust vectoring systems that are being tested in demonstrator aircraft. GE has completed ground tests of its Axisymmetric Vectoring Exhaust Nozzle (AVEN) on a GE F110 turbofan at Edwards Air Force Base in California and is scheduled to fly it on the Air Force's F-16 variable-stability inflight simulator aircraft (VISTA) as early as May. Pratt & Whitney has completed ground tests of its Pitch/Yaw Balanced Beam Nozzle (P/Y BBN) for the P&W F1OO line of turbofans at its West Palm Beach facility. A 2-D thrust vectoring nozzle developed by Pratt & Whitney has flown aboard the Air Force's F-15 STOL/Maneuver Technology Demonstrator (SMTD); Pratt & Whitney would like to fly the P/Y BBN on the aircraft as well. ....

The nozzle is the part of the engine through which the thrust-producing exhaust gases exit. Nozzles of high-performance aircraft are equipped with mechanisms that increase or decrease the diameter of the aperture, called the throat, as appropriate to maintain the desired pressure ratio at different power levels. For example, when the after-burners are lit to generate more thrust, the throat is widened to accommodate the increased exhaust flow. The derivative nozzles used in experimental thrust vectoring have additional mechanisms to control thrust direction as well. "The nozzle acts as another control surface," explained Roger Bursey, P/Y BBN program manager. "The function is transparent to the pilot."

The P&W P/Y BBN is capable of altering the direction of engine thrust by 20 degrees from the centerline in a 360-degree radius of freedom. The variable-geometry nozzles move at a rate of 45 degrees per second, providing adequate response time for quick in-flight maneuvers. The P/Y BBN has three convergent and three divergent actuators controlling a series of jointed flaps around the diameter of the nozzle. In addition to directing thrust, the flaps are automatically adjusted to maintain a proper thrust balance in the engine. Pratt & Whitney is developing the thrust vectoring system for its F119 engine, which will be fitted on the F-22 Lightning II advanced tactical fighter.

The GE AVEN thrust vectoring system is similar in principle to the Pratt & Whitney design. Fly-by-wire commands control three actuators that vector thrust by a series of convergent/divergent flaps. Ground tests have demonstrated that the AVEN can vector thrust up to 17 degrees in any direction at rates exceeding 60 degrees per second. GE is expected to be the first manufacturer to get an axisymmetric nozzle off the ground when it commences the 60-flight test program on the F-16 VISTA, which is scheduled to begin in May.

The actuators of both thrust vectoring systems are designed to receive commands from a digital control system integrated with the pilot's flight controls. Thrust vectoring is directed by existing stick and rudder controls. A separate set of controls is not required for the variablegeometry nozzles. Flight software automatically adjusts the nozzles' vectors to the positions required to execute the pilot's commands.

By contrast, the thrust vectoring systems employed by NASA on its F-18 HARV and X-31 research aircraft are comparatively crude devices. These systems have three metal and carbon paddle-like vanes oriented outside the conventional nozzle assembly of each engine. The vanes are actuated into the exhaust to alter its direction. They are positioned by a computer in response to normal stick and rudder controls.

According to Terry Putnam, program manager for NASA's High-Performance Aircraft and Flight Projects division (Washington, D.C.), the purpose of NASA's thrust vectoring activities is to explore the utility of thrust vectoring, not to develop a production system. The F-18 HARV is a broad-based research project with the goals of understanding how thrust vectoring works and its effects on aircraft flying qualities. The X-31 program aims to investigate the military usefulness of thrust vectoring in high-alpha situatjons.

Both GE and Pratt & Whitney are pursuing thrust vectoring research largely with their own funds. The engine makers are in fierce competition to win expected Department of Defense contracts to retrofit existin aircraft with their thrust vectoring systems. Nearly all of the front-line fighters and fighter-bombers in the Air Force and U.S. Navy have variants that use some model of the GE F110 and P&W F1OO engine families, including the F-14 Tomcat, F-15 Eagle, and F-16 Fighting Falcon. The F-18 Hornet is equipped with the GE F4O4 engine and GE is scaling AVEN to fit that aircraft as well.

In order to retrofit existing aircraft, GE and Pratt & Whitney had to design their thrust vectoring mechanisms to fit into available space. Both the P/Y BBN and AVEN systems were designed to require the same amount of space as the nozzle assemblies they will replace. Both vectoring systems add about 300 pounds to the nozzle's weight. Engineers also had to ensure that the engine and aircraft could handle the different thrust load distribution created by thrust vectoring.

While the baseline nozzle has been strengthened in the past to accommodate more powerful F-100 variants, the P/Y BBN represents the first major redesign of the baseline F-100 nozzle kinematics since the engine was introduced in the 1970s, said Kevin Barcza, a Pratt & Whitney mechanical design engineer. "Pressure loads incurred by the baseline nozzle are well documented," he said. "However, most of the load calculations required by the new nozzle had to be performed by hand."

A series of free-body diagrams were generated for many different flight conditions with altitude, power level, Mach number, and afterburning engines as variables. Each free-body diagram described an individual part isolated according to where it formed links with other parts of the mechanism. A team of designers, with each member working on a different part, looked at how loads were applied to links during the specified flight conditions. This way, a matrix of loads describing the P/Y BBN as a whole was constructed. The designers used the data to modify existing parts and design new ones as required. "Calculating the free-body diagrams by hand is a couple of days' worth of work," Barcza said. "We needed to do calculations for each part covering the entire flight envelope."

To expedite the process, the Pratt & Whitney nozzle group has installed Applied Motion software from Rasna Corp. (San Jose, Calif.) on its Sparcstations. Designers built a kinematic analysis model by importing CAD files drawn using Unigraphics from Electronic Data Systems (Maryland Heights, Md.) into Applied Motion via IGES. The model will be used to determine the loads for individual parts throughout the flight envelope and to perform static analysis at any nozzle position or dynamic analysis over a range of motion. The results will be used to verify the earlier work performed by hand.




Below a Picture (1995) From NASA's F-15B fitted with Pratt and Whitney's P/Y BBN

Image

This November 13, 1995, photograph of the F-15B ACTIVE at NASA's Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA, showed the thrust stand being used for ground testing of a new thrust-vectoring concept involving two new Pratt & Whitney nozzles that can turn up to 20 degrees in any direction. These nozzles gave the aircraft thrust control in the pitch (up and down) and yaw (left and right) directions. This reduced drag and increase fuel economy or range as compared with conventional aerodynamic controls, which increased the retarding forces (drag) acting upon the aircraft.


More from Flight Global 1992

Image


A detailed account of the flight test program can be found -

DREAM MACHINE -- THRUST VECTORING IN THE F-16

GE's Axis-symmetric Vectoring Exhaust Nozzle (AVEN), designed for a simple retrofit to the F-110-GE-100 engine, required no modifications to the airframe and hydraulic system. In order to handle the increased hydraulic flow demand due to the AVEN nozzle, the capacity of the hydraulic pump was increased from 16 to 24 gallons per minute.

The new nozzle is very similar to the production F-110 exhaust nozzle and is almost indistinguishable from a production F-16 nozzle. Engine oil powers three actuators, located 120 degrees apart, that in turn drive a vectoring ring. The actuators are independently controlled by the Vectoring Electronic Control (VEC). Since the vectoring ring can be tilted in any direction, vectoring is available in pitch, yaw, or any combination thereof.

The AVEN provides up to 17 degrees of thrust vectoring in every direction. Slew rates of the nozzle are 60 deg/sec but limited to 45 deg/sec by the flight control computer software. Figure (1) depicts the major components of the AVEN design.1 Figure (2) denotes the differences between the production F-16 nozzle and the AVEN nozzle.2 The proto-type nozzle adds 450 pounds to the engine, however, GE estimates a production nozzle would add only 250 pounds.

While the production F-16 is one of the world's most maneuverable fighters, directional stability is lost between 30 and 50 degrees AOA when most of the vertical tail is blocked by the fuselage. (The rudder losses effectiveness at 35degrees AOA.) Flight control limiters help prevent departure/spins, but restrict commanded AOA to 25.5 degrees--well short of the 32 degrees angle required for maximum lift.

With yaw stability provided through thrust vectoring, the 25.5 degree restriction is eliminated maximizing inherent aircraft aerodynamics.

With MATV bringing almost unlimited high angle of attack performance, the jet was able to perform such maneuvers as the "cobra" and "J-turn". Equally important, MATV gives the fighter pilot a jet that is almost impossible to depart from controlled flight--the added safety capability will save aircraft and lives.



As previously posted, GE kept on pursuing its solution beyond the completion of flight testing with the USAF and NASA. Their last pitch was to SAAB since they had built their design to be scalable across their engine families.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15866
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby NRao » 03 Mar 2017 07:45

^^^^^

Funny you mention it.

1997:

Pratt & Whitney To Thrust India Into High-Tech Field

US engine manufacturing giant Pratt & Whitney is in talks with the Bangalore-based Gas Turbine Research Estab-lishment (GTRE) to help build a thrust vectoring nozzle for the Kaveri jet engine which will power the light combat aircraft.

The talks could result in a memorandum of understanding by the middle of this year, official sources said. If that happens, it will be the first time that India will be involved in an evolving area of fighter aircraft research with an opportunity to launch a product along with the West.


Followed by in 2009:

AERO INDIA: Eurojet offering thrust-vectoring EJ200 for LCA

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5997
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby brar_w » 06 Mar 2017 02:49


Prithwiraj
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 58
Joined: 21 Dec 2016 18:48

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby Prithwiraj » 06 Mar 2017 06:45

US President visiting new Ford Class Carrier.. heli landing footage


Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19904
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby Austin » 06 Mar 2017 16:06

Russian Knights with their new Su-30SM's.

Image
Image
Image

More photos here

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15866
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby NRao » 07 Mar 2017 07:55

UAE Leaning To Russia Could Be Price Of U.S. Arms Sale Inaction

EMIRATI-RUSSIAN DEFENSE PACT
Russo-UAE fighter program could get underway in 2018
Development could build on MiG proposal for lightweight fighter
New pact may have been prompted by UAE’s struggle to obtain armed drones


According to the Russians, along with agreeing to support the fighter development program, the UAE has also signed a letter of intent to buy Sukhoi Su-35 fighters, a shake-up that could give Russia’s defense industry a significant leg up in the region and potentially alter the balance of power.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15866
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby NRao » 07 Mar 2017 07:58


Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19904
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby Austin » 07 Mar 2017 22:14

Iran unveils new homegrown Saba 248 utility helicopter

http://www.airrecognition.com/index.php ... opter.html

Image
Iran's new medium-lift helicopter is multifunctional with two engines and has eight seats. It can be deployed to a wide variety of missions, including freight and passenger transport missions, rescue operations, aerial photography and reconnaissance missions and can be used as air ambulance and air taxi.

On the technical specifications of the helicopter, Dehghan pointed to the use of modern technologies in the field of navigation, conduct and mechanical systems, acceptable function with sole engine, high reliability, low sound and vibration, high speed, operating temperature range of -25 °C to 55 °C and an aerodynamic body.

On November 18, 2014, Iran unveiled a new home-made helicopter named 'Sorena' in the 7th International Air and Aviation Industries exhibition underway on Kish Island in the Persian Gulf.

Sorena is a 4-seater helicopter with 300 HP, has a flight speed of 160km and enjoys dual guiding system.

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5997
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby brar_w » 08 Mar 2017 02:42



Northrop will struggle to protect its turf given what Boeing has done on the 737 platform with the E-7, and the P-8. The prime selection is sensor independent so on the sensor side Northrop has a better shot given that it has been flying its partially populated AESA for a while now in demonstrations to the USAF. But then again, Raytheon has a full up sensor flying on the P-8 at the moment although their offer is likely to include a GaN upgrade to that X-band sensor (same with NGs).

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5997
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

Postby brar_w » 08 Mar 2017 19:44

Australia is all set to extend its partnership on the Growler with NAVAIR for the Next Generation Jammer program. This was confirmed by Australian Senator and defense minister, Marise Payne at the recent Avalon Air Show.

Senator Payne said Australia would spend $250 million to partner with the US to develop "next generation radio and radar jammers" in order to "future proof" the Growler. The Age/Melborne March, 2017




Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cain Marko and 35 guests