CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

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Prem Kumar
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

There is also something we take for granted: the absolute lack of collateral damage. Our jawans take a bullet instead of letting a civilian come in harm's way.

Contrast this with Amrikans & their super-duper training and weaponry
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by jamwal »

Assam Rifles in J&K. I had no idea that they were still deployed there.

https://twitter.com/JAMMULINKS/status/1 ... 0310199296
Jammu and Kashmir: Indian Army’s Assam Rifles busted a hideout and recovered a huge cache of arms & ammunition including 10 UBGL grenades & two Chinese grenades in Nagmarg forest in Bandipora of North Kashmir today
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mody
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by mody »

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/su ... d=msedgntp

The killing of TRF founding head and his associate on last Monday was a great moment. Both figured in a list of top 10 most wanted terrorists currently operating in J&K. Hopefully further successes will continue for the security forces.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by mody »

sajaym
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by sajaym »

Image

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 454105.cms

A lot of pistols and AK-74 carbines (yes carbines, not assault rifles as described in news reports) were captured from the dead terrorists yesterday. The Pigs seem to be trying to going small & compact...for what?...lone wolf attacks?
Thakur_B
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

^^ That is what was said in Army press conference. Concealed weapons for use in civilian area.
Prem Kumar
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Bad news coming in :(

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/five-army ... nch-sector

1) Terrorist build up in launch pads, post-ceasefire & Afghan takeover
2) Killing of Pandits
3) This ambush

..... all of these warrant a surgical strike to destroy launchpads, make both their uniformed & non-uniformed jihadis bleed.
Aditya_V
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

This definitely some sort of large scale attack on the Paki Army , at least a Truck transporting 20-30 Paki soldiers.

We must have low RCS drones, even civilian grade which can cross LOC and give updates for Targeting these.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Lohit »

Tit-for-tat with NaPakis will not give any gains. While we must provide all support to the half a dozen independence movements there - indulging in parity based proxy war will only delight NaPaki leadership.

Consider this, if they are spending a max of 10L PKR on each soosaai, that's $5000. Peanuts. Sending a 1000 fighters or 200 such batches of 5-6 @rseholes costs $5 Mn, an amount they can raise from UK Mirpuris alone each year. Even if we kill in a ratio of 10:1 for all such forays, we still loose 100 of our braves. Is this acceptable to Bharat?

The way to solve this is blowing up corps commander Lt Gen G@ndu or their elite bureaucracy or particularly anti-India prominent politicians. Only when we studiously identify high value targets and hit the 100 odd Pakjabi families that rule NaPak like a fiefdom will they consider giving up this tactic. However this requires our own pol-mil leadership to put their heads on the line for any reprisal attacks. And hence this approach is studiously avoided by us. In a country where existing shia, hazara, pashtun groups bay for Pakjabi blood, how hard can it really be to achieve this?

The other far less effective counters are - to light up Neelum valley and the rest. As well as pursue a policy of how China deals with Taiwan - especially for countries in the EU, GCC and South East Asia - Malaysia, Japan and Singapore who trade heavily with Pak; they should see Indian trade diminish if they do not eliminate trade with NaPak.

For the rest the Afghans and Balochs will anyway deliver their just deserts to PakJabis by end of 2022.
Aditya_V
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

There are no easy solutions, as long as Pakistan exists along with Indian Seculars tied at the Hip to it, they will behave this way.

But inaction will bring more attacks, unless there is major response to this, they will continue to provoke.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by SinghS »

It is much simpler...effect demographic change in J&K and get done with it forever.

Extra step: Arm each loyal relocated Hindu/Sikh to the teeth, turn a blind eye to the measures they take to defend themselves.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by nam »

Let's first respond with some serious firepower on LC, then we can talk about breaking up Pak.

Atleast Pak had the b**lls to attack our brigade hq with airpower, while we were singing "non-millitary" strike, :roll:

We get hit, because of gandigiri. Peace & preventing escalation at any cost. Even if that means our people dying on a regular basis.
Prem Kumar
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Its really grating to see the utter senselessness with which we accepted a ceasefire proposal from the Paki-US combo & of course, stuck to it steadfastly.

What we did was give enough breathing room for the Pakis to play mischief in Afghanistan, while staffing up the launch-pads, send in infiltrators etc.

We should say "f$%* you" to the ceasefire and bomb the shit out of launch pads, including artillery flattening. Any attack on Indian soil automatically invalidates any agreement --> this should be our line
nits
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by nits »

Nothing will happen then some "kadi ninda" and repeat dialogue of "we will respond to time and place of our choosing" - and that time never comes. My blood literally boils on hearing we loosing 5 of our jawans and knowing nothing will be done to avenge there sacrifice...

I may be proven wrong and will be happy if it happens
uddu
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by uddu »

Pakistan from its inception is a threat to India and will be a threat until it's completely eliminated. Everything else is temporary solutions.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Deans »

jamwal wrote:Assam Rifles in J&K. I had no idea that they were still deployed there.
As far as I know, its a single battalion of AR that's deployed in J&K at any time. In general they have performed better than the CRPF/BSF, which is understandable given their leadership, which is IA and their experience in heavily wooded areas.
AR women have also recently been deployed in Kashmir.
Deans
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Deans »

Prem Kumar wrote:Its really grating to see the utter senselessness with which we accepted a ceasefire proposal from the Paki-US combo & of course, stuck to it steadfastly.

What we did was give enough breathing room for the Pakis to play mischief in Afghanistan, while staffing up the launch-pads, send in infiltrators etc.

We should say "f$%* you" to the ceasefire and bomb the shit out of launch pads, including artillery flattening. Any attack on Indian soil automatically invalidates any agreement --> this should be our line
I believe the ceasefire agreement bought us time, which we badly needed.
We were facing a real possibility of escalation with China in Ladakh, for which we were at a disadvantage in terms of firepower, logistics and
infrastructure. We had an unprecedented Covid 2nd wave. One of the outcomes of that, was tourism in Kashmir being hit for the 2nd consecutive
season, which would exacerbate tensions with the youth. There was a less friendly administration in the US. The collapse of the Afghan army had already started I'm sure IA had to consider the possibility of renewed infiltration across the LOC once the Taliban was in power in Kabul. We had a limited window to boost our strength along the LOC which we did. My expectation was that the ceasefire would hold till winter, (which it has) which gave us the time we needed.

During the CF, casualties in the valley from militant activity were at an all time low.
In 2019, we lost 78 security forces in J&K. In 2020 it was 56 and so far in 2021 it is 25 (plus 5 today).
The ratio of Terrorists to security forces (incl J&K cops) killed, which was 2.5 :1 before article 370 went, improved to 4 :1 in 2020 and 5:1 during the ceasefire. Overall militant casualties were lower probably because there were fewer attempts to infiltrate across the LOC fence.

What the recent killings have reinforced - among those doubting if govts policy is the right one, is that we are fighting the Talibanization of Kashmir.
If we fail here (which is a possibility, since US failed after trying for 20 years) it will next be the turn of the rest of India. Weather the leader we need at this time is Modiji, or Raga is a choice anti BJP voters will be forced to address.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Vivek K »

nam wrote:Let's first respond with some serious firepower on LC, then we can talk about breaking up Pak.

Atleast Pak had the b**lls to attack our brigade hq with airpower, while we were singing "non-millitary" strike, :roll:

We get hit, because of gandigiri. Peace & preventing escalation at any cost. Even if that means our people dying on a regular basis.
Wrong! It is not Gandhigiri! He has been dead almost as long as we've been free. If we still blame him for our current conditions then aside from a lame excuse, it speaks very poorly of our capability to administer ourselves.

It comes down to the fact that India is unprepared. We have not been able to create an armed force structure that is so vastly superior to Pukistan's that we cannot impart the asymmetric catastrophic blow on their infrastructure to cripple their capability to even spell I-N-D-I-A. Our politicians and Generals have been busy looting the treasury in the guise of "superior quality weapon systems". If 75 years ago we had started building an import free domestic MIC, today we would have been able to match or exceed China's capabilities. 75+ years of dependence on imports has not allowed the GOI to exercise the will of the people. Imports come with strings - like declaring cease fire with pukis etc. Only an Atamnirbhar Bharat can exercise its free will and exorcise the terrorism that is foisted on us.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Deans »

I agree that we could have done a lot more in the last 75 years on defense, but we haven't and that is a reality we have to live with.
I don't believe it's all doom and gloom. The democratic world faces 2 threats - China and Islamic fundamentalism. We face both and in the same state. We have broken the back of the same militancy that defeated the US in Afghanistan and Iraq. We have stood up to China at a time when Taiwan's airspace is violated on a daily basis and the combined might of US, Taiwan, Japan and Aus can do nothing to stop it.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by nam »

Creating a superior military requires a feedback loop from application of violence. Israelis or for that matter Turkey are able to create modern warfare solution, because they feel the need for it by applying those weapons in a war. They see a problem, they fund and find solutions.

What is our style of warfare? Infiltration and terror attacks? Throw men at the problem. Artillery attacks by Pak? Respond with "similar caliber" hoping to hit something. Hundreds, if not thousands of rounds are fired with a "hope". On a good day, ATGM rounds. The political as well as millitary leadership try their best to prevent escalation. Even if we mount a fire assault, it is deliberately not made public, in case things "escalate".

For crying out loud, a simple thing like ballistic shield was introduced in recent years. what sort of technology & money is required for it? :roll:
What the hell is a "non military" air strike?

No amount of money can create a modern force, when such an attitude persists.

A pak with 1/10 our GDP is able to keep this farce going on for decades, while we throw men trying to stop the bullets. I have lost track of the number of times our men have been caught in ambush in these jungles.

Would US or Russia tolerate such constant ambush? without trying to invest in tech to fix it?
nam
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by nam »

I am noticing the coverage of this incident has been quite low. I may be wrong, but I don't think there will be any response.
Vivek K
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Vivek K »

We would be foolish in believing the probing forays by China and the results indicate anything more than mindsets and preparedness. Might for long and short term is a different matter. But to build on our successes, we need to build our armed forces to deter our enemies. That a failed state like Pakistan continues to be a thorn in our side is quite frustrating.

And we have an airforce with declining fleet strength that will become critical in the next two - three years. And though the IAF has hesitantly embraced the LCA programs, it still relies on imports for major systems. The AEW/AWACS program is derailed and hoping for a restart with a bigger platform than Embraer - the excellent taking a toll on the good. They could have ordered some Netras to have that capability available round the clock in all theaters. And in the fighter streams, the bad news is that we're still stuck with Mig-21s (bisons). And the underpowered Jags form the backbone of the strike wing!! Take these two stragglers away and you have a force at 50% strength. The Sukhois are formidable but need an urgent upgrade and Astra2.

The navy has stretched its resources though local procurement to start a buildup with 2 carriers on the scene 2-3 ATVs in the water and the scorpenes finally available.

The IA remains confused in its approach to build up - purchase of 6 Apaches taking away resources from perhaps acquisitions that would make a real difference. Continued purchase of tin cans vs Arjuns, no orders for LCH, small arms being outsourced, etc. And the artillery procurement is using the Arjun playbook to deny local procurement.

So there are a lot of issues going forward. But for the moment, we have parity with China and Pakistan.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by mody »

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/newsindi ... d=msedgntp

Three pigs slaughtered. One of them involved in the killing of the Bihari roadside paani poori stall owner.

The paki origin pigs should be the ones that we really need to go after. The locals seem to be not as well trained and more cannon fodder for pakis.

The ceasefire has continued to hold but yet we havn't been successful in stopping all the infiltration.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by mody »

Efforts on to identify all the terrorists involved in the targeted killing of civilians. Upto 6 have been identified. Multiple teams, including specialists from Delhi working on the case.

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/fo ... d=msedgntp
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by mody »

Open season declared for slaughtering pigs. 2 Operations going on simultaneously in shopian district. In 1 operation in Tulran village 3-4 terrorists have been cornered. In the second operation contact yet to be made. One more operation to be launched soon.
This would make it 4 operations launched in the last 24 hours.

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/j- ... d=msedgntp

Also, Terrorist Imtiyaz Dar who was behind the killing of civilian Mohammad Shafi Lone has been neutralised in Bandipora.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by mody »

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/ja ... d=msedgntp

7 pigs nuetralised in the past 24 hours. Some operations still going on. Hopefully a few more will get accounted for. Hopefully the master minds and string pullers will also be sent to meet their 72.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

Thanks for the great news mody! Now they must sustain this counter assault, and not be lulled into complacency. BTW, all the killings of non-Moslem( and one Moslem) civilians, by terrorists, are outrageous and horrendous, but the murder of the street vendor from Bhagalpur is particularly bad. Here was someone who lost his job in his own state, was impoverished and eager to work, travelled all the way to Kashmir, only to be gunned down like a dog in the street. And yes, the killing of Bindroo, who bravely stayed on in Kashmir, in the face of all the Islamic terror, was also heartrending.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

2 more braves KIA in the Poonch sector. Amit Shah has made big statements about more SS if necessary. Hope it happens.

A big SS on Pukistan will also send warning signals to local $hits like the "so called farmers". Some demonstration of Kshatriyata is needed
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Larry Walker »

Man WTF !! We have lost 8 brave hearts till now. Are these fidayeens who are setting up suicide traps ?? I hope we are using our searchers and Rudras - no point in loosing our countrymen just for some human rights shit.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Larry Walker »

Official statement on sending re-enforcements - twitter rumor mill on multiple casualties and mutilations post capture but since bodies not yet retrieved hence not confirmed. Seems like something nasty has happened in that area. Some handles talking about Porkis capturing a hilltop just on LoC. I am sensing PRC getting their bitch to bite to divert attention from something coming down from north or most probably east.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

On Twitter anything is said, let us wait for so.e corroboration of such news, but 7 men kia is Sad.
Larry Walker
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Larry Walker »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3llP39GNyU

Major new channel confirming 'missing' army personnel in the Rajouri-Poonch encounter.
I pray that our bravehearts have not been dehumanised by any Talibani treatment - else wrath of Rudra needs to be unleashed.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Pashupatastra »

This government's decision to agree to a ceasefire is as moronic as Vajpayee agreeing to Agra Summit with Musharraf. I hope Modi Shah duo are not playing up to the gallery while our Jawans face a different reality on ground.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Shameek »

Total count of our braves has gone up to 9. :( This along with 11 civilians.

Image

Link
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by titash »

Shameek wrote:Total count of our braves has gone up to 9. :( This along with 11 civilians.

Image

Link
Om Shanti.

I was very angry and upset for the last couple of days. The loss of our brave young men burns you from inside.

But thinking rationally, the Pakis are not going to stop unless something changes at a fundamental level. Even surgical strikes and Balakot style strikes don't seem to be strong deterrents.

We need to strategically tackle the problem at the source itself. And do it while tactically limiting the damage inflicted upon our population.

As of now, it appears that a large demographic inversion with a ~ 80% Hindu-Sikh majority (and with the right to bear arms) is the only sustainable solution. Initially exclusive enclaves with Israeli style separation barriers. The US/European/Desi wokes will cry bloody murder, but its not their kids who are paying the price; our kids are...

We think too much of what will the "Muslim World/OIC" do? Well...how exactly are they responding to the Chinese antics in Xinjiang *today*? Sab ke sab haraami hai, aur sab ke sab nange hai. As oil runs out and the western economies transition to electric cars, the OIC countries will have lesser and lesser clout as the years go by. Our Gulf workers will be largely out of jobs and will be returning to India in 10 years time. Meanwhile in the Gulf...its going to be a return to camel humping, just like 50 years back

In the short term, we need a massive investment and deployment of teaming UAVs + combat robots that can perform most dangerous close in combat missions. The Jihadi will *always* be at a disadvantage because he's "energy limited" and has no logistics train unlike the state's combat robots. That is really the only long term tactical solution to the Islamic Terrorist
Last edited by titash on 18 Oct 2021 00:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by S_Madhukar »

Exactly the Cheenis have martyred 9 more of ours on the other border. They are working hard by proxy to avenge their losses while we are happy with “status quo”. Meanwhile our jarnails will claim Bakis are good as done ;wonder what astrologer has told them of a date for future aarpaar war when they will use their shiny tanks, drones, howitzers and fight a battle by the “book” from the war room (assuming it has not been leaked already) ; no need it is just a CI doctrine , Bakis know we don’t fight around elections so they are doing Eleven’s bidding for some more $$ Honest brave Sikh soldiers lost their lives on the forlorn LoC while the dishonest ones are busy marauding innocents in the country centre. Sometimes we have to question whose lives were more important to the nation?
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by arshyam »

titash wrote:We need to strategically tackle the problem at the source itself. And do it while tactically limiting the damage inflicted upon our population.

As of now, it appears that a large demographic inversion with a ~ 80% Hindu-Sikh majority (and with the right to bear arms) is the only sustainable solution. Initially exclusive enclaves with Israeli style separation barriers. The US/European/Desi wokes will cry bloody murder, but its not their kids who are paying the price; our kids are...

We think too much of what will the "Muslim World/OIC" do? Well...how exactly are they responding to the Chinese antics in Xinjiang *today*? Sab ke sab haraami hai, aur sab ke sab nange hai. As oil runs out and the western economies transition to electric cars, the OIC countries will have lesser and lesser clout as the years go by. Our Gulf workers will be largely out of jobs and will be returning to India in 10 years time. Meanwhile in the Gulf...its going to be a return to camel humping, just like 50 years back

In the short term, we need a massive investment and deployment of teaming UAVs + combat robots that can perform most dangerous close in combat missions. The Jihadi will *always* be at a disadvantage because he's "energy limited" and has no logistics train unlike the state's combat robots. That is really the only long term tactical solution to the Islamic Terrorist
Well said. Demographics is the key, and 370 is merely the first step. To expect things to change overnight without any blowback is to live in a fool's paradise. Changing demographics will be a multiple-decade process, and there will be attacks like these to dissuade people from settling down. We cannot prevent every attack, just like we cannot man every inch of the border and stop every infiltration attempt.

The current uptick is clearly based on pakis being emboldened after the Taliban's victory in Afg. It will run its course and die down as our forces identify the local collaborators, just like they have done in the past. We cannot start wailing after every single attack and play to the paki expectation of the Hindu not being able to withstand a hard blow. Our Army has dealt with this issue for decades and have largely pacified the state despite the constant support for terror from across the border. Surely they have learned a thing or two by now.

As for the longer solution, it is more a political issue than just military. How much are we willing to escalate? How much is the public ready to support? No politician would initiate a war if the public support for it was middling - it's the sad truth. The sadder truth is that our public is now largely anticipating next Sunday's clash on the television screen, never mind the dead soldiers. With such a thought process, how would anyone go for any decisive action? So, incremental steps it would be, with occasional (declared and undeclared) surgical strikes, till some point where escalation cannot be avoided or public support is firmly behind the govt to solve it once and for all. Till then, keep at pacifying Kashmir, integrate it with better infra, and encourage settlers, Pandits and others. Maybe even bring back the VDCs.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by arshyam »

For those who advocate khan style shakinaw with helicopter gunships and standoff munitions, would khan do the same if they were fighting an insurgency in Alaska or Minnesota as opposed to Afghanistan? The heck they will. They will follow the same template the IA is doing.

There is a very good reason for the Army to follow the current approach - and it's not only about the pakis escalating. Air strikes can and will cause collateral damage, and turn the local population away even more. Controlled demolitions are better. Ever wondered how the forces get the info and surround some house where "terrorists are holed up"? Or how they are able to eliminate terrorists so quickly to the point that the next recruit sneaking across the border has to count his remaining life span in single-digit days?

I share the same frustration and anger about our bravehearts giving up their lives, but constantly second-guessing tactics across multiple threads is not adding any value to the forum discussion. I don't post much in the mil threads as I don't have useful info to contribute, so mostly lurk. But I have no option now as these posts are just creating noise and of equally dubious value.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Karan M »

ARShyam - I suspect no Army cares as much for its fellow citizens lives as the IA does.
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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by VinodTK »

arshyam wrote:For those who advocate khan style shakinaw with helicopter gunships and standoff munitions, would khan do the same if they were fighting an insurgency in Alaska or Minnesota as opposed to Afghanistan? The heck they will. They will follow the same template the IA is doing.
YES they would infect they did it
It is called the American Civil war, Union (aka United Stated) wiped out the South (aka The Confederates)
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