CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Asit P
BRFite
Posts: 311
Joined: 14 May 2009 02:33

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Asit P » 21 Nov 2009 19:23

Here comes the stunner
Senior cop wanted NSG taken off 26/11 ops: Gafoor
Even as the NSG operations were coming to an end in the 26/11 terror attack, there was a suggestion from a very senior police officer to call off the NSG as they were taking too much time to complete the operations.

This was disclosed by former Mumbai police commissioner Hasan Gafoor. Speaking to TOI, Gafoor — now director general of police (housing) — said there was a meeting of senior police officers with R R Patil (who was then state deputy chief minister in charge of home department) at the state police headquarters on November 28.

"There was a suggestion from one officer that the NSG be withdrawn as they were taking a lot of time and the police must take over".
:eek: :eek:

Source:- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 253275.cms

Nihat
BRFite
Posts: 1175
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 13:35

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Nihat » 21 Nov 2009 22:17


700 terrorists in JK, Pak funding them: DGP


There are nearly 700 terrorists operating in Jammu and Kashmir and the infiltrating militants in the state are getting funds and equipment from Pakistan, said Jammu and Kashmir Director General of Police Kuldeep Khoda on Saturday.

"There are about 700 terrorists of different outfits operating in the state and these may include some who had surrendered earlier," Khoda said, when asked by reporters whether militants who had surrendered in the past have again taken to arms.

However, he said the number of former Ultras who have rejoined militant outfits is negligible.

When asked if there had been an increase in infiltration bids from across the International Border and the Line of Control [ Images ], the DGP said they had shown a decline in recent years and most of them had been foiled by the security forces.

"Their strategy is to send more terrorists inside our territory before the onset of the winter or when passes open with the melting of snow, but our troops have foiled their attempts and killed many of them along the borders.

The DGP also charged Pakistani establishment with providing logistic support to infiltrators, including funding and equipment to vitiate the atmosphere and increase violence in Jammu and Kashmir, besides coordinating the activities of different outfits like Hizbul Mujahideen [ Images ], Harkat-ul-Jehadi Islami, Jaish-e-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Tayiba for the purpose.

There was a decline of 35 percent militancy-related incidents in the state in 2008 as compared to 2007, whereas the current year has registered a drop of about 23-24 percent in such incidents in comparison to last year, the DGP said.

Attributing this to the well-coordinated surgical operations based on hard intelligence inputs by the security forces and police, Khoda said his team is doing quite a good job to ensure peace and development in the state.

To a question on the sense of insecurity being expressed by Rukhsana Kousar who along with her brother Aijaz killed a hardcore militant in Rajouri, he said the girl and her family have been provided with all the security they needed.

Asked whether terror suspect David Coleman Headley and T H Rana, arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the US last month on the charges of plotting a major terror strike in India [ Images ] at the behest of the LeT, had links with militants in J&K, the DGP said nothing has so far emerged on this.



http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/nov/ ... em-dgp.htm


700 is an incredibly large number, how did they ever manage to get in , in the first place. After the fencing was complete and adequate men were stationed on the border , there has been very little scope for infiltration.

Nihat
BRFite
Posts: 1175
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 13:35

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Nihat » 21 Nov 2009 22:18

Two militants and an army jawan were killed in a fierce gunbattle between security forces and Ultras in a forest area of Jammu and Kashmir's [ Images ] Poonch district on Saturday.

A jawan was also wounded in the firefight, which was still continuing at Dhandot-Kanga Gali, nearly 180 km from Jammu, official sources said.

Some four to five militants were still hiding in the area, they said adding the exchange of fire began at around 4 pm.

The encounter took place after security forces launched a search operation following firing by Pakistani troops in the area on Friday evening.

The firing from across the border was apparently aimed at pushing infiltrators into the Indian territory, sources said


http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/nov/ ... nfight.htm

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9967
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby sum » 21 Nov 2009 22:34

700 is an incredibly large number, how did they ever manage to get in , in the first place. After the fencing was complete and adequate men were stationed on the border , there has been very little scope for infiltration.

AFAIK, 700-1000 has always been the number quoted since the last 8-10 years ( even before fencing was started).

anirban_aim
BRFite
Posts: 233
Joined: 25 Jul 2009 21:28

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby anirban_aim » 22 Nov 2009 01:39

Asit P wrote:Here comes the stunner
Senior cop wanted NSG taken off 26/11 ops: Gafoor
Even as the NSG operations were coming to an end in the 26/11 terror attack, there was a suggestion from a very senior police officer to call off the NSG as they were taking too much time to complete the operations.

This was disclosed by former Mumbai police commissioner Hasan Gafoor. Speaking to TOI, Gafoor — now director general of police (housing) — said there was a meeting of senior police officers with R R Patil (who was then state deputy chief minister in charge of home department) at the state police headquarters on November 28.

"There was a suggestion from one officer that the NSG be withdrawn as they were taking a lot of time and the police must take over".
:eek: :eek:

Source:- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 253275.cms


Is this a typical case of DDMitis or are we to be really shocked. :shock: This "highly motivated and motivated and capable" 8) officer should step out of shadows and enlighten us all how exactly was he going to replace the NSG with state police (I hope he wasn't DUI :evil: ), what was he going to fight the terrorists with? .303? may be lathis or may be he was high on octane after watching a rerun of "Shoot Out at L...." on cable TV??? Was he going to lead his troops into battle himself. :twisted:

Another question does come to mind, this Gafoor dude was throughly panned by all for pissing his pants during the attack and being nowhere in sight. So much so he had to move to Police Housing fixing leaking sewer pipes in Constable Quarters, along with his then boss RRP. Now with RRP back in the saddle may be he's trying a comeback trick by trying to make others look worse.

Does smell like a planted story :-?

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3400
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 22 Nov 2009 02:34

sum wrote:
700 is an incredibly large number, how did they ever manage to get in , in the first place. After the fencing was complete and adequate men were stationed on the border , there has been very little scope for infiltration.

AFAIK, 700-1000 has always been the number quoted since the last 8-10 years ( even before fencing was started).


The key is that the number of terror incidents has drastically come down since the peak in 2000 and 2001.

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/web1/09nov22/news.htm#1

Official sources said last night’s cease-fire violation by Pakistan Army at Tarkundi in Balakote sector of Mendhar tehsil in Poonch district during which they fired heavily on Indian positions was aimed at pushing a group of five to seven militants into the Indian territory.

IGP Jammu Zone Ashok Gupta told the Excelsior that militants made three attempts to sneak into this side from the area falling between Dandot and Kanga Gali on the Line of Control (LoC) in Balakote sector since last night.

"Finding alert troops, assisted by police, the militants returned twice. However, they intruded into Indian territory in third attempt this morning but were immediately confronted by the Army personnel, who were maintaining a high alert on the LoC in anticipation of infiltration attempts", Mr Gupta said, adding the troops identified the area of intrusion and engaged the militants in firing.

A heavy exchange of firing continued for about an hour in which two infiltrators and an Army jawan were killed while two other soldiers were injured. Injured jawans were evacuated from the site of firing and admitted in the Military Hospital.

Intercepts revealed that a group of five to seven militants of Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) outfit were launched from Dandot area of PoK (half of Dandot village falls in occupied Kashmir) last night by Pakistan Army, which fired on the Indian posts at Tarkundi, adjacent to Dandot, to give covering fire to the militants and engage troops in firing to divert their attention from intrusion.

However, the Army personnel, who were well versed with the tactics of Pakistani troops and militants, sounded a high alert on the LoC soon after last night’s initial round of Pakistan firing. Again this morning, Pakistan Army resorted to firing on Indian posts to ensure intrusion by the ultras.

After two militants were gunned down by the troops, others were reported to have escaped back to PoK from the Army camp they were launched last night. Taking no chance, Army and police launched massive searches in the entire area surrounding the LoC between Kanga Gali and Dandot. Searches continued till tonight but there was no trace of militants.

Bodies of both slain militants have been recovered from the LoC and were being shifted to an Army camp. Both of them were believed to be Pakistani cadre of JeM outfit. Their identity has not been established so far.

Recoveries made from the slain militants including one Pika gun, one AK-47 rifle fitted with an Under Barrel Grenade Launcher (UBGL), one 12 bore gun, a binocular, one Improvised Explosive Device (IED), one grenade, six AK magazines, two medicine kits and some eatables.

Army jawan, who sacrificed his life in the gun-battle, has been identified as Rifleman Suresh Kumar of 7 Raj Rifles, hailing from Rajasthan. His body is in the process of being sent to his native town.

"It was a very excellent operation by the Army, led by their officers, who didn’t allowed the militants to sneak-in. The militants, who were heavily equipped with arms and ammunition, were forced to flee back finding a very alert troops", the IGP Jammu said.

He added that the intrusion bid was foiled despite the fact that terrain and grown up vegetation was working to the advantage of militants.

On the Intervening night of November 15 and 16, Pakistan Army and Rangers had tried to push three groups of four militants each into this side from the International Border (IB) in Ramgarh sector of Samba district. The attempt was foiled. However, few militants did manage to enter into Indian side and planted an IED which took the life of a DIG of BSF. The infiltrators were pushed back.

According to sources, about 60 to 70 militants were stationed at launching pads on the IB and nearly 250 to 300 others were camping on the LoC opposite Jammu sector awaiting an opportunity to infiltrate, which they were unable to find due to strict surveillance by Army and BSF.

Sources said maximum concentration of Pakistan Army and ISI to push the infiltrators was in Mendhar sector in Poonch district where some passes were available for intrusions. As the passes have been plugged, the infiltrators were finding it hard to sneak-in.

It may be mentioned here that militants from upper reaches of Doda and Reasi belt have been sending frantic messages to their mentors across the LoC to push militants with weaponry as they were running short of cadre and weapons.

....

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9967
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby sum » 22 Nov 2009 13:28

On the Intervening night of November 15 and 16, Pakistan Army and Rangers had tried to push three groups of four militants each into this side from the International Border (IB) in Ramgarh sector of Samba district. The attempt was foiled. However, few militants did manage to enter into Indian side and planted an IED which took the life of a DIG of BSF. The infiltrators were pushed back.

According to sources, about 60 to 70 militants were stationed at launching pads on the IB and nearly 250 to 300 others were camping on the LoC opposite Jammu sector awaiting an opportunity to infiltrate, which they were unable to find due to strict surveillance by Army and BSF.

What prevents us from flattening the "launch pads" and Paki posts providing cover fire? :-?

Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Raja Bose » 22 Nov 2009 13:38

^^ because we are at "Cease Fire" onlee. :roll: Except that Pakis read it as "Sees (and) Fire(s)" and we do chai-biskoot at Flag meetings - the only things which have gone up with Cease fire is piglet infiltration and Parle G stock.

Stan_Savljevic
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3522
Joined: 21 Apr 2006 15:40

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 24 Nov 2009 06:07

Yesterday's news... RIP brave folks.
Major, captain killed in NE
http://telegraphindia.com/1091124/jsp/n ... 777437.jsp
http://telegraphindia.com/1091124/jsp/f ... 777712.jsp
http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/det ... ov2409/ne4
Five Assam Rifles personnel, including two officers, were gunned down by militants of the United National Liberation Front in an ambush at Old Somtal in Manipur’s Chandel district along the Indo-Myanmar border this morning. In the evening, militants ambushed a police commando team, moving in two vehicles, at Yaralpat in Imphal East district and injured five. The commandos retaliated but the militants managed to flee. The injured were admitted to Shija Hospital here. No outfit has claimed responsibility for the attack. The UNLF attack comes on the eve of the 45th raising day of the outfit tomorrow. This is the oldest militant group in Manipur and a major force to reckon with.

Attack belittles troops’ claim
http://telegraphindia.com/1091124/jsp/n ... 775294.jsp
Outfit sends truce signal to PCG
Ulfa today pulled the People’s Consultative Group out of cold storage, asking it to be ready for an “increased role” while the operations group of the Unified Command dwelt at length on measures to tackle the outfit. In the wake of yesterday’s twin blasts in Nalbari, Ulfa chairman Arabinda Rajkhowa called up a senior PCG member, Mukul Mahanta, this morning and said the Ulfa-constituted body should get ready for a “different and an increased role very soon”, dropping strong hints that it was preparing for talks.

http://telegraphindia.com/1091124/jsp/n ... 776568.jsp
Ulfa, forces in post-blast syndrome ---- Dispur faces security posers
http://telegraphindia.com/1091124/jsp/n ... 775981.jsp
No breakthrough in Nalbari blasts case yet
http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/det ... v2409/at06
PC statement on Nalbari blasts likely
Union Home Minister P Chidambaram is likely to make a statement on Nalbari blasts in the Parliament on Tuesday in the face of the pressure from Opposition Asom Gana Parishad (AGP). AGP and BJP today staged demonstration in front of the Parliament House demanding solution of the insurgency problem.

http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/det ... v2409/at08
Ultras using ‘trap twin blasts’ tactic in State
Trap twin blasts, the tactic used in Nalbari town to cause maximum damage yesterday, is a tactic used frequently by the militants in Jammu and Kashmir, while, the Maoist groups also use the tactic quite often to target security forces. There have been several instances in the past when the same tactics were used in Assam but use of such tactic is not very frequent in the State as of date.

Former State Director General of Police SM Srivastava, who is now the security adviser to Chief Minister, pointed out that the same tactic is used by the militants frequently in Kashmir to cause maximum damage, while, the Maoists very often use the same tactic. The Maoists normally carry out a landmine blast to attract security forces to target them. The same kind of tactic was used in the State in the past but the blasts in Nalbari yesterday killed innocent civilians more than security forces because of the fact that a large crowd gathered at the spot, he added.

http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/det ... 2409/at012


Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3400
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 25 Nov 2009 21:10

Imho its a sound decision by the IAF to get explicit RoE in COIN theatre. THis will avoid any hue and cry when the firing does start.

atreya
BRFite
Posts: 540
Joined: 11 Dec 2008 16:33

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby atreya » 25 Nov 2009 21:20

Yes, I agree with you there. IAF did a sensible thing by asking for permission first, rather than "defending" their actions later in front of a bunch of dull-witted armchair generals. Though, you can be assured, that a hue-and-cry will STILL be raised, if and when they fire back at the Naxals.

Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Raja Bose » 25 Nov 2009 22:51

At time 0:12, you can see the list of NSG KIA - can someone make out the other names?


The list is partial since the serial numbers end at 33 - I wonder if they include training accidents?

I can make out top to bottom:

Roshan Lal (52SAG) ---> KIA on 6 June 1999 (what ops was this? during Kargil)
Subhash Sharma (52SAG) ---> KIA on 6 June 1999 (what ops was this? during Kargil)
Suresh Yadav (51SAG) ---> KIA 25 September 2002 Akshardham
Surjan Singh ---> WIA/DoW 25 September 2002 Akshardham
S?? Kumar (12SRG) ---> KIA 20 January 2006 (what ops/incident was this?)
Rampal Rana (12SRG) ---> KIA 4 October 2006 (what ops/incident was this?)
Pankaj Kumar (12SRG) ---> KIA 8(?) July 2007 (what ops/incident was this?)
S. Unnikrishnan (51SAG) ---> KIA 27 November 2008 Taj operations
Gajendra Singh (51SAG) ---> KIA 27 November 2008 Nariman House operations

Added later: OK much better quality - now one can make out the entire list of names. Post edited above.

Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Raja Bose » 25 Nov 2009 23:17

Also note the first guy who is introduced to Sachin/Bhajji - Sub. Fair Chand. He shot dead the piglet who fell out of the window in Taj (he did not evacuate after the bullet injury to his leg and continued till the end)

Craig Alpert
BRFite
Posts: 1440
Joined: 09 Oct 2009 17:36
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 26 Nov 2009 03:36

Cost of keeping Kasab alive: Rs 31 crore and counting
``There was a huge expenditure on the construction of a special cell inside the high-security Arthur Road jail. It has been designed in such a manner that even if a truck laden with explosives were to ram into it, the cell would not be dented. Such safeguards are essential to protect Kasab's life - and to establish Pakistan's involvement in the attack,'' he said.

We spent nearly Rs 1 crore for the creation of a bullet-proof cell on the JJ Hospital premises. But he was never taken there, instead, doctors were summoned to the Arthur Road jail, whenever Kasab had a health problem,'' he said. Incidentally, Kasab, who was wounded before being captured, has been attended to by anywhere between 16-24 doctors for his various ailments in the past year.

Malayappan
BRFite
Posts: 430
Joined: 18 Jul 2005 00:11

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Malayappan » 26 Nov 2009 08:51

Mumbai attacks: One year on - The Mumbai (Bombay) attacks exposed gaping holes in India's security preparedness. Analyst Praveen Swami examines whether India has learnt its lessons.

Some excerpts -
India's security modernisation programme appears based on the false premise that counter-terrorism responses can be built around technology acquisition alone.

Funds have been made available for new weapons and mobility platforms, but there has been no parallel push towards enhancing police skill sets and institutional capabilities.
Police forces across the world have studied the Mumbai attacks with care, and carried out exercises to test their responses if a similar attack confronts them.

In July, Singapore staged Operation North Star VII, in which more than 2,000 participants from 15 government agencies and the media participated in simulated attacks on hotels, malls and an underground train station.

New York Police Department officials visited Mumbai days after the attacks to study the assault sites, and draw lessons. By December 5, 2008, the New York police had carried out a tactical drill from Emergency Service Unit officers and a tabletop exercise for commanders based on the Mumbai scenario.

Among the lessons drawn was that Mumbai-type attacks would stretch the force's special units to breaking point.

Clearly, had constable Jillu Yadav, the hero of the attack on the Chattrapati Shivaji Terminus, been equipped with an assault rifle, without proper training it is entirely possible there would have been more fatalities last year - not fewer


Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Raja Bose » 26 Nov 2009 13:10

^^ What is a digital pistol (last line of the article)? :-?

Gaur
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2009
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Gaur » 26 Nov 2009 13:31

^^
Nothing, I guess. Just our beloved DDM at its usual best.
Also, note that the last line mentions "3.3 rifle". :roll:

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9967
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby sum » 26 Nov 2009 13:54

Raja Bose wrote:^^ What is a digital pistol (last line of the article)? :-?

Must be a brochure photograph of the pistol... :rotfl:

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3400
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 28 Nov 2009 22:49

Google does not reveal what "digital pistol" means - probably a slang name for some weapon like "Pika" is used for PKT MMGs.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 279626.cms

...On the BSF's role in the upcoming multi-state coordinated offensive against Naxals, Srivastava said while five battalions (about 5,000 personnel) have already been deployed in the field, eight more battalions will be sent.

Giving an overview of the anti-Naxal operation, which is set to begin by March-end, he said the task force which has been created with personnel from the CRPF, BSF and the ITBP, will operate in the states' tri-junctions and bi-junctions....


Unfortunately all guidelines suggested by the GoM committee have been thrown out with border guards BSF and ITBP deployed in the hinterland.

Khalsa
BRFite
Posts: 1604
Joined: 12 Nov 2000 12:31
Location: NZL

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 06 Dec 2009 12:05

Kashmir coming out of conflict trauma
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8320178.stm

Avinash R
BRFite
Posts: 1973
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 19:59

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Avinash R » 06 Dec 2009 13:40

Aditya G wrote:Google does not reveal what "digital pistol" means - probably a slang name for some weapon like "Pika" is used for PKT MMGs.

Digital pistol is DDM speak for automatic (self-loading) pistol

Semi-automatic pistol are refered to as "analog pistol". :D

This was taught in rajat bandit sir's tutorial classes. Others can join his classes too, just 1000rupees/month. Only requirement is to leave the brain at home while coming to the classes. :lol:

Aditya G wrote:Unfortunately all guidelines suggested by the GoM committee have been thrown out with border guards BSF and ITBP deployed in the hinterland.


There arent enough forces for coralling all maoists in one limited area and teaching them a lesson. Previously when they received tough love in AP they ran away to chhasttigarh and jharkhand. In April this year they hijacked a train in jharkhand and soon govt started sending more forces to tackle them there. Maoists knowing what was in store for them soon shifted and started gnawing at bengal's borders and staged a similar hijack stunt in october to get their leader chhatradhar released.

The maoist problem cant be solved if they keep shifting their bases, regrouping and staging attacks. So for the time being it's better to ignore a report's recommendations for sometime. If we allow this problem to continue, by waiting for CRPF to take sole charge of internal security without having enough forces, more people will continue to die at the hands of maoists.

Nihat
BRFite
Posts: 1175
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 13:35

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Nihat » 12 Dec 2009 20:24

For the first time a helicopter gunship was used to flush out Maoists. Security forces fired 500 rounds of bullets and also lobbed grenades.



http://ibnlive.in.com/news/security-for ... 965-3.html


Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Raja Bose » 21 Dec 2009 13:32

X-posting from Mumbai Attack thread.

Quite a crisp and interesting description from ex-IG(ops) NSG.
Note the use of explosives to breach walls and create alternate entry points.

Aditya G wrote:http://www.claws.in/index.php?action=master&task=439&u_id=36

A year since 26/11: OP Black Tornado: A Case Study

Centre for Land Warfare Studies
E-Mail-landwarfare@gmail.com

Following is the report of a presentation, "Urban Counter Terrorism Operations: OP Black Tornado-A Case Study" by Maj Gen Abhaya Gupta, SM, VSM, IG (Ops), NSG (now retired) held at the United Service Institution of India, New Delhi, on 4 March, 2009.


Opening address by Lt Gen PK Singh, PVSM, AVSM (Retd), Director, USI:

Lt Gen PK Singh reflected that the subject “Urban Counter Terrorism Operations” is a very apt and hot topic for discussion worldwide, especially since 26/11.
The potential and probability of such un-conventional attacks taking place in any part of the world is a potent threat today, and hence the need for understanding the nature and environment of such a warfare in an urban setting and to counter it, The Royal United Services Institute in the UK held a seminar shortly after the Mumbai attack, realizing the need for comprehending such scenarios and the RAND corporation in the US had also sought inputs from USI on the response mechanism of the Indian security agencies to the Mumbai attack.

Lt Gen Noble Thamburaj, PVSM, SM, VCOAS (now retired):

Lt Gen Thamburaj asserted that it would be unfair to categorize that the entire country was held to ransom for 60 hours during the Mumbai attacks, though certain machineries of the government had stopped functioning.
The army and the NSG had to assume and get on with the job, as no clear picture of the unfolding situation was presented by people already on the ground.
Dwelling on the role played by the media, he believed that it was in fact, very well behaved and had not crossed the ‘Lakshman Rekha’ assigned to it or had hindered operations in any way.
The media had done a service to the nation by bringing the operations to the centre stage and forced the government to take hard decisions.

Maj Gen Abhaya Gupta, SM, VSM, IG (Ops), NSG

Part-I: ‘Operation Black Tornado’- The Mumbai Operations.

On the night of 26 November 2008, firing incidents had taken place at various locations in Mumbai. Initial reports suggested a gang-war taking place. However, in a few hours, it was confirmed to be a terrorist situation.
In an encounter with the Mumbai Police, one terrorist had been killed and one captured alive.
The National Security Guard (NSG) was inducted into Mumbai at 0300 h on
27 November 2008 after covering a distance of 1163 Km from New Delhi by
air transport.
Initially two targets were identified- The Taj Palace hotel and the Oberoi- Trident in South Mumbai. Accordingly, forces were divided into two parts, under the command of DIG (Ops) NSG and Deputy Force Commander, 51 SAG.
Preliminary briefing was provided by Mumbai Police and the hotel staff.
Accretions were being flown in for simultaneous operations.
Later, a terrorist situation was confirmed at a third location- the Nariman house, hence the task force was further divided into three sub-task forces, one each for the Taj, Oberoi-Trident and the Nariman house.
The second contingent arrived on 27 November and the third along with support elements on 28 November.
The Task Force comprised of 195 army personnel drawn from the 51 and 52 Special Action Groups (SAG).
Two sniper detachments from the Taj were sent to the Nariman House to pin down the terrorists present there, within the building.

The operational strategy was to neutralize the terrorists through ‘shock’ action using varied methods of insertions and tactical manoeuvering:-
· Using small ‘HIT’ teams of 5 personnel each.
· Inter and Intra Co-ordination and Communication.
· Top-down innovative tactics.
· Use overwhelming small arms fire to pin down the terrorists.
· Render safe procedure (RSP) to sanitize and secure the buildings.


Operations at the Taj Towers and the Taj Palace Hotel

Layout: The Taj Palace Hotel

· Length of each corridor per floor is about 840 ft, total length of the hotel being about 1.80 Kms.
· Total area- 49,1400 sq.ft.
· 330 rooms, 2-3 rooms in each suite, 140 miscellaneous rooms including generator plants, etc. (in the basement), 17 suites in each floor.


Layout of The Taj Towers:

· 21 floors with with 17 rooms in each floor.
· Total rooms - 323.

Difficulties in Conducting Operations

· Time to break open, enter and conduct quick search of one room took four-five minutes, for 500 rooms- 33-40 hrs,50-63 hrs for the Taj Towers alone.
· Inside the building only 200 SAG personnel operated.
· Large area of operations, ensuring safety of guests/ civilians.
· Thick granite walls of the Taj nullified effectiveness of rocket fire, hence were not used.
· Only one master key was available, hence doors had to be broken open.
· Limited hotel staff was available, no knowledge of various small rooms in the corridors which could be used as hiding places.
· Lack of ambient light inside the rooms and the curtains were drawn from inside.
· Occupants were too scared and never identified themselves or opened the doors upon knocking or calling. Some occupants had ventured out of their rooms earlier and were shot by the terrorists, word of this incident had spread quickly and the hotel staff had advised the guests to shut themselves inside their rooms.

At 0920 h on 27 November, the NSG took over operations from the MARCOS and obtained the hotel layout plan. The Taj Chambers and the restaurants were cleared and secured first. At the Taj Palace, the ground floor was secured and the OP base was set up there.
Top-down operations were launched by approaching the terrace from the service stairs.

Inputs had suggested that two terrorists were present inside the Taj. Contact was established at the first floor during floor clearance. Fire was coming from two terrorists from the left corner of the corridor.
One SAG commando got injured in the middle of the staircase leading to the first floor. It was then that Maj Sandeep Unnikrishnan pulled him down to the basement and asked his squad to stay there and charged the staircase himself, firing at the terrorists. At this moment, two more terrorists unexpectedly fired from the right corner of the first floor corridor, injuring Maj Unnikrishnan. He later succumbed to his injuries.

Eventually, the four terrorists got cornered at the Wasabi restaurant on the first floor.
Due to the wooden spiral staircases and granite walls of the bar, they were immune to NSG fire. IEDs were used to blast open entry into the restaurant and due to the blast effect and shock waves created, one terrorist jumped out of the window and was shot. The rest died inside the restaurant.

Operations at the Oberoi-Trident

Layout:

11 floors, with 33 rooms on each floor, three interlinking corridor at three levels (floors) with the Trident Hotel.

Unlike the Taj, the two terrorists here were not pro-active and after the initial shooting of guests on 26 November, lied low in a room. They opened fire only once while changing their location and on an another occasion when fired at.
They were fixed in room number 1856 which was opened using a master key and fire was drawn from the terrorists. One terrorist was killed while escaping near the lift on the corridor, while the other hid himself inside the bathroom. Later, it was ascertained that he was defiladed from own fire from outside as he had moved into the bathtub.
The Oberoi hotel was cleared by 1400 h on 28 November, and after render safe procedure, handed over to the civil police at 1800 h on 29 November.

Operations at Nariman House

Nariman House is located in a densely populated neighbourhood in South Mumbai. Inhabited by Jews, even residents of the area had no access to it, nor did anyone possess any knowledge of the layout inside.
Sniper detachments were positioned on the surrounding buildings, and the command base was set up near an under-construction building, which provided the vantage point to bring down observed fire on the Nariman House.
The terrorists while moving in had broken the window panes of the house which lay strewn on the ground. Therefore, the sound emanating from the broken glasses alerted the terrorists and would then bring down effective fire on the approaching commandos.

The building had iron grills on all sides and the curtains were drawn from inside. The terrorists had blasted the inner staircase connecting the floors, however could not prevent the commandos from negotiating them.
The maid while escaping with baby Moshe, informed that the terrorists had moved over to the adjacent Merchant House. At one time, the locals had speculated on the possibility of six terrorists including a female being present inside.
Owing to such mixed inputs, the clearance of all neighbouring buildings became a necessity and operations commenced on the intervening night of 27/28 November.
The signal intercept provided by the Mumbai Police, revealed the terrorists shooting down the remaining two female hostages, who had already been shot earlier.
The force was divided into an assault group, which slithered down the helicopter at 0715 h on 28 November, while the support element brought down observed fire on the building. There was no time for rehearsals.
The sixth and the fifth floors were cleared first and contact was established with the terrorists at 0800 h on the fourth floor.
It was at this moment, when Hav Gajender Singh, while attempting to break into the room from the front door was fired upon by the two terrorists from divergent locations inside the room.
After this attempt, another entry point was created using an IED. Co-ordinated fire was brought down from two sides now, ie, the front door and the broken wall, while the commandos moved into the room and neutralized both the terrorists.
The objective was cleared by 1825 h on 28 November.

Summary

In all, eight terrorists were killed during the operation by the NSG and a total of 610 hostages/guests rescued from all the three locations.
The NSG suffered two fatal and 18 non-fatal casualties.


PART-II: Challenges Ahead

The various shortcomings and lessons learnt from the Mumbai incident:-

· Traditional thinking on conflict management needs to change.
· Failure of co-operation and synergised effort between various agencies.
· Lack of any broad-vision, higher level direction, communication and co-ordination.
· Is there an active role for higher commanders in Counter-terrorist operations and if so what should it be?
· With the new urban terror environment, the troops to task ratio needs to be discussed; essential need for reserves at each level, for quick insertion and re-deployment.
· With Urban terror terrain undergoing a sea change from single/double storey buildings to malls, hotels, offices, etc. with multiple entry points, there is a need to evolve new tactics and techniques to counter terror.
· How do we ensure minimum casualties; more time it takes, more is the pressure to accomplish the task, whereas in moving swiftly there is a risk of incurring casualties.
· Need to generate tactical intelligence for which suitable finances and resources be made readily available.
· Radio communication problems- more hand held sets are required.
· Hostage- terrorist identification was a problem.

Recommendations/ Milestones to be achieved

· Need for a better synergy between the centre and the states.
· Launch multi-faceted and integrated operations.
· State governments should be made more accountable, since law and order is a state subject.
· Enhance professionalism of state forces.
· There should be a clear channel of Operational command.
· National Policy should be in line with Constitutional provisions.
· Harmonise all instruments of National Power- Start from a position of strength- military operations, but compliment it with political solutions.
· Need for a media policy – Start was made, but left mid-way.
· Take steps to deter/dissuade our neighbours from indulging in such attacks.

Discussion

· What should be the role of the army and should garrison units take own initiative and respond to such situations as had emerged in Mumbai? Ghatak platoons can be trained and made available to localise the terrorists, till such time as specialised forces arrive.
· Should the army get involved in an urban terror environment? The actual assault is always carried out by the army as CPMFs are not adequately trained and equipped to deal with such situations. Even in Mumbai, the first responders, in the initial few hours had failed to ‘fix’ the terrorists at one location and isolate them.
· The scope of employing chemical agents against terrorists has been studied by the NSG, but since they release odour and are found to be harmful to some categories of people, such as heart patients, old people, etc, it cannot be employed in a wide area where all kinds of people are present.
· NSG has no authority to jam mobile/radio communication and lacks the equipment to block transmissions in larger areas, even in case of airline hijacking; no consensus has been evolved to jam transmission.
· The helicopter assault on Nariman House could not be launched at night due to lacking of night avionics capability in helicopters. In the morning the operation was delayed due to hazy weather conditions.
· Diversion for other tasks is distracting the SAG from its primary role. Is police culture in NSG diminishing its ethos, and therefore should it be under Police control?
· Intelligence agencies need to be made more accountable and brought under Parliamentary oversight. Developing Human intelligence capabilities is the key to prevent terror attacks.

Conclusion

The presentation was well attended by the officers of the service headquarters and veteran officers. It provided an authentic and precise account of the operations carried out in Mumbai, coming as it did from the horse’s mouth, i.e. the IG (Ops) NSG, who operated from Ops rooms established at the Taj and Nariman Point. The debate generated led to pertinent issues being addressed. The new terror environment and the growing liberalism in society is presenting numerous soft targets to the barbaric terrorists who are a much different and a highly indoctrinated and motivated lot. They come with a pre-meditated will to die and hence look to inflict maximum casualties. Therefore, capturing such ruthless and radical bunch of terrorists is well nigh impossible and neutralizing them before they wreak havoc is a challenge facing all counter-terrorist agencies including the elite NSG. There is a need to change and re-orient our tactics to deal with such a lot of terrorists and at the same time minimize own casualties.

Lest We Forget

Maj Sandeep Unnikrishnan, AC, 7 BIHAR, 51 SAG (Posthumous)
Hav Gajender Singh, AC, 10 PARA (SF), 51 SAG (Posthumous)

The 51 and 52 Special Action Groups of the NSG were conferred with 1 Kirti Chakra, 1 Shaurya Chakra, 6 Sena Medals (Gallantry), 1 Sena Medal (Distinguished) and 1 COAS Commendation Card for OP Black Tornado.

Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2323
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 22 Dec 2009 01:19

Very informative. The sheer # of rooms in the Taj made this a needle(s) in a haystack problem.

Note how both Maj Sandeep Unnikrishnan & Hav Gajender Singh were killed in a somewhat similar fashion - simultaneously being fired upon from divergent directions. Do we know if their BPJs worked and were they hit in areas not protected?

Also, it would be interesting to know how many hostages were killed after the NSG had begun operations. I suspect not a whole lot, given the description below about a high volume of firepower brought down to pin the terrorists down.

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 22 Dec 2009 03:17

one of the TV documentaries suggested that Major Unnikrishnan was tracking one piglet and closing and had to go across open space. 2nd piglet was in opposite corner and shot him in the back. it seems he was keen to close with the piglets to secure a young woman who was trapped in an office, her pleas for help (on the phone i think) made him take greater risks when his team had already been hit several times.

at close range being hit by multiple AK47 rounds may be beyond the capability of most BPJ's to save you. you could also be shot in the buttocks or thighs and sever a major artery and bleed to death quickly (not that I am suggesting that is what happened)

Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Raja Bose » 22 Dec 2009 07:17

He was shot thru the neck from the back with one round possibly going thru the left eye. He had entered the Palm Lounge and engaged one guy and got shot by the other who was hiding on the other side behind him - he did not stand a chance.

Gajender Singh died from splinter injuries and possibly GSW when he breached the door and bore the brunt of a grenade blast. The piglets already knew that NSG was coming down and had barricaded the door and were lying in wait - thanks to our glorious media. NSG did not know that the piglets knew. Due to the barricaded door, the NSG breached a wall (you can see the smoke/hear the explosion in some of the news clips) and assaulted from two entry points. Hav. Singh might have fallen at the door way coz the piglets tell their controller over the phone that one Indian guy is down.

A lot has been said about NSG tactics in the past year mostly denigrating - the only thing I can say is, the more I learn how they did it, the more amazed I am, at their skills.

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Surya » 22 Dec 2009 08:04

raja

do nto think hegot shot in neck

it was a open funeral and if it was eye etc it would have been bandaged

Bawejas account says he was crumpled in fetal position so he was probably shot in the body

yes my friend spoke to 6 of the men who battled 60 straight hours (I and Kaps met him recently)

they did a wonderful job

screw those who do not have a clue of what these men went through

Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Raja Bose » 22 Dec 2009 08:26

deleted as per request
Last edited by Rishi on 24 Dec 2009 00:22, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: as req

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Surya » 22 Dec 2009 08:51

raja

he was not there

men from his unit were (one of the SF units on deputation to NSG)

most of the time as the analysis mentions was in clearing and securing the rooms

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3400
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 22 Dec 2009 23:26

Indian Border Security Force (BSF) soldiers patrol near the India-Pakistan international border in Kangral area, about 44 kilometers (27 miles) southwest of Jammu, India, Tuesday, Dec. 22, 2009. According to news reports, BSF foiled infiltration attempts by militants Tuesday in Indian Kashmir.

Image

Indian Border Security Force (BSF) soldiers patrol near the India-Pakistan international border in Kangral area, about 44 kilometers (27 miles) southwest of Jammu, India, Tuesday, Dec. 22, 2009. According to news reports, BSF foiled infiltration attempts by militants Tuesday in Indian Kashmir.

Image

kaangeya
BRFite
Posts: 139
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 02:34

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby kaangeya » 23 Dec 2009 00:21

Raja Bose,
A lot has been said about NSG tactics in the past year mostly denigrating - the only thing I can say is, the more I learn how they did it, the more amazed I am, at their skills.

These guys are the best in class and have shown an extraordinary ability to improvise and tackle a situation that is not to be found in any textbook.

The most memorable scenes of the event are of the cheering crowds seeing off the NSGs after the Op. Some of these guys went thru the Op non stop for days on end.

Vinod Ji
BRFite
Posts: 117
Joined: 26 Oct 1999 11:31
Location: Dubai U.A.E.

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Vinod Ji » 23 Dec 2009 02:07

Once I got an invitation to nsg @ palam . I am not very proud of what I thought when I entered there. I saw a very ordinary looking guy & thought if this is a "nsg" God help us. Walked very lazy, purposeless,maybe 5'6" max. I thought it will be difficult for this fellow to carry 20 kg for 100 yards. But then during the main menu I saw him shooting live after climbing over three colleagues shoulder to reach a certain height, charge into the room, rescuing,climbing down the hanging rope / ladder / dashing, carrying a supposedly injured colleague (may be double his size), over 2 furlong and other traits which I can not describe. To crown it, he beat all the time limits (Which I thought were extremely difficult if not impossible to meet) imposed for the tasks Then my thoughts were THANK GOD this is a "NSG".

Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Raja Bose » 23 Dec 2009 08:55

^^^ Many a TFTA barrel chested amirkhan also felt the same way before and after meeting the skinny yindoos on the CIJWS obstacles. :mrgreen:

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 23 Dec 2009 16:34

spec forces soldiers need stamina and endurance in preference to pure muscular strength. therefore the skinny guys tend to be better than the big guys in this respect

pmund
BRFite
Posts: 165
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 00:49
Location: Kolkata
Contact:

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby pmund » 23 Dec 2009 17:54

It brings tears to my eyes just to post this picture. Sandeep was a coursemate of mine. I hear he was shot in the right side of the neck and the bullet exited from the left. I may be wrong, becos I never asked where he was shot. Just too painful. You want to remember a guy like Sandeep the way he was. And please no talk of an eye being stitched shut or anything. Have a heart for those who knew him. It's heart rending.

Image

Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2323
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 23 Dec 2009 18:14

Surya wrote:raja

do nto think hegot shot in neck

it was a open funeral and if it was eye etc it would have been bandaged

Bawejas account says he was crumpled in fetal position so he was probably shot in the body

yes my friend spoke to 6 of the men who battled 60 straight hours (I and Kaps met him recently)

they did a wonderful job

screw those who do not have a clue of what these men went through


Surya - just so that there is no misunderstanding. I was making an observation about how both Maj Sandeep Unnikrishnan & Hav Gajender Singh died - wasn't insinuating anything. Dying for our nation is an honor most of us will never attain. Nothing but the deepest respect for these brave men. RIP.

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3400
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 23 Dec 2009 18:45

Effective border management is what has set Indian COIN a class apart from Chechnya and Afghanistan operations.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/433-i ... 9/558218/0

433 infiltration attempts into J-K in 2009
Agencies Posted online: Wednesday, Dec 23, 2009 at 1105 hrs
Jammu : Cross border infiltration into Jammu and Kashmir is on the rise with militants making 433 such attempts this year, nearly 90 more than last year.
As many as 106 militants infiltrated during these bids this year.

"A total of 433 infiltration attempts were made by the militants along the Line of Control and International Border in Jammu and Kashmir in 2009," a senior police officer told PTI here on Wednesday.

Admitting that there has been a surge in infiltration, Director General of Police (DGP), J&K, Kuldeep Khoda told PTI that measures have been taken by security forces to foil these bids and said it is a matter area of concern at a time when violence has gone down in J&K.

As per police figures, 342 infiltration attempts were made from across the border in 2008, while 2007 and 2006 reported 535 and 573 such attempts along the LoC and IB in J&K.

General Officer Commanding (GoC), 16 Corps, Lt Gen Rameshwar Roy said, "In coming time, we will not allow them to be successful in infiltrating militants into this side as troops are keeping a close guard over LoC with best training and vigilance".

The highest number of 1,373 infiltration bids took place in 2003 followed by 537 in 2004 and 597 in 2005.

An estimated 57 militants crossed over to this side in 2008 along LoC, followed by 311 militants in 2007 and 317 in 2006.

"We have strengthen the deployment along the International border, where infiltration bids have shot up. Where we feel there is need for more forces, it is being addressed to on an urgent basis. The winter border management plan has been put in place", Inspector general of Border Security Force (BSF), Jammu frontier, A K Sarolia had said.

As many as 41 infiltrating militants were killed this year as against 80 infiltrators last year along the LoC.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: milindc and 57 guests