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CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

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DrRatnadip
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby DrRatnadip » 15 May 2017 20:48

Karthik S wrote:Who'll build invest crores of rupees on theaters there.

I dont know sir.. May be after abolishing art 370 it will be profitable..
I was just wondering if success of bahubali can make many of aam junta forget about our brave soldiers beheading, worsening situation on LOC..
Can this powerful medium have any positive impact on kashmiri population? Can it give enough fodder to empty minds to divert them from anti national activities..? As we all know social media/Paki radio is widely used for propogating venoum against India.. kashmiri youth will preffer watching a cool movie than listening to ghisa pita paki rona dhona.. apologies if m thinking too much in this..

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 15 May 2017 22:13

Boss why do think Hurtirat and militants have made sure cinemas are in the valley for the last 25 years?

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby DrRatnadip » 15 May 2017 22:47

Hmm..So i guess there are so many practical difficulties using bollywood and theater art in our favour..

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby brvarsh » 16 May 2017 01:38

Bollywood is already playing its role in a second line of diplomacy.Like China's cheap manufacturing industry, if a nation relies on it so heavily it would never in a true sense challenge Chinese interests otherwise. How successful is India in using Bollywood to do the same is not very tangible but understanding the human behavior there is no reason to believe it will not work.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Bart S » 16 May 2017 02:42

DrRatnadip wrote:Hmm..So i guess there are so many practical difficulties using bollywood and theater art in our favour..


Well, for all the money that the centre dumps on the politicians (the likes of Farooq Abdullah have of late being more Pakis tha the Pakis in their statements) and providing security to the Hurry-rats, they could open up cinema theatres and provide security for them. Let the militants attack theatres and let the mullahs delivery fatwas against them, it will just open up more fissures in the jihadi-dominated society of the valley (right now their writ and culture is going completely unchallenged in the civil space).

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby DrRatnadip » 16 May 2017 13:52

We are not going to change demographics of valley anytime soon..We cant use heavy hand to suppress spread of extremism like chinese.. We can try using soft power like this to somwhat contain extremism..

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 16 May 2017 14:06

DrRatnadip wrote:We are not going to change demographics of valley anytime soon..We cant use heavy hand to suppress spread of extremism like chinese.. We can try using soft power like this to somwhat contain extremism..


Cinema theaters were specifically targetted and kashmiris are fed daily probaganda that Bollywood is unislamic, soft power is not going to work. The source of all this is confidence of Paki Army. If the Paki Army gets a bloody nose , watch how quickly things become normal.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Vikas » 16 May 2017 14:54

As if KM's are not glued to their TV's watching Telgu dubbed movies and Saas-Bahu serials.
The only way Kashmir problem would be solved is taking care of Pakistan otherwise this wound will fester and more horror will visit IA soldiers.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby ramana » 16 May 2017 21:22

Vikas wrote:As if KM's are not glued to their TV's watching Telgu dubbed movies and Saas-Bahu serials.
The only way Kashmir problem would be solved is taking care of Pakistan otherwise this wound will fester and more horror will visit IA soldiers.


Kashmiriyat has morphed into jihad supported by Pakistan.

Need to recognize this problem and stop fooling ourselves that Kashmiri Muslims have genuine grievances as BJP leaders are wont to admit.

They want everybody dead for that is the end goal of jihad.

So need to bring UCC to integrate the Kashmir into India.
Destroy Pakistan as they support the jihad.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Vikas » 17 May 2017 11:57

Ramana Ji, I have no clue what this animal 'Kashmiriyat' is, which everyone keeps harping upon.
Kashmiriyat simply is Islamiyat with a better sounding name.

Islamists and Muslims were as evil towards KP's as they are today untill Ranjit Singh won Kashmir for Bharat and later ruled by Hindu rulers. Those 150 years saw some peace in Kashmir till JLN spoiled it for us.

Agreed, we need to accept the fact that there was never and will never be a time when Muslims will not have grievances (Mostly Imaginary and religion based) but CT can not go on for decades if Political leadership doesn't has any grip on end game. Eventually it all delves into Business and everyone makes money out of Terrorism and CT.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby DrRatnadip » 20 May 2017 20:52

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/breakin ... 474561.cms

2 infilterating pigs killed..We lossed 2 brave soldiers..RIP

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby DrRatnadip » 20 May 2017 21:13

:( When we detect movement of intruders why can't we eliminate them without our own? Why we are unable to ambush them/ snipe them/burn them with flame throwers? m not complaining.. Just want to know what complexities are involved in neutralizing these pigs that force us to loose young soldiers every time..

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Tejas.P » 20 May 2017 22:38

2 IA soldiers martyred today stopping infiltration in Nowgam. RIP.

Things are heating up. Along with increased cross-border shelling, reports indicate that SSG commandos, BAT teams and fidayeens have formed irregular units focused on infiltration and asymmetric warfare.

http://www.timesnow.tv/india/video/paki ... ipin/61361

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Deans » 20 May 2017 22:43

DrRatnadip wrote::( When we detect movement of intruders why can't we eliminate them without our own? Why we are unable to ambush them/ snipe them/burn them with flame throwers? m not complaining.. Just want to know what complexities are involved in neutralizing these pigs that force us to loose young soldiers every time..


We have to aggressively patrol the LOC because there is infiltration into India. The Pak army does not have to, since we do not infiltrate into Pak.
They patrol less and have fewer (hence more strongly manned) posts than we do and can leave more gaps between posts.
They can pick and choose a patrol to ambush. We have fewer chances to do so and have to react to their fire.

Unlike the US, in Iraq or Afghanistan, IA does not call in an air strike or flatten a village with artillery, if someone in a village on our side shoots
at a patrol. Our soldiers go in and get the pigs out, with close quarter fighting, if that is that is required to avoid civilian casualties.
We do not have a huge number of drones giving real time intelligence and do not shoot people if they are `suspects moving suspiciously'. So our soldiers are invariably shot at first. If there is better body armor and better squad level weapons, starting with an assault rifle, we will probably take fewer
casualties.
Last edited by Deans on 20 May 2017 22:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Tejas.P » 20 May 2017 22:46

DrRatnadip wrote::( When we detect movement of intruders why can't we eliminate them without our own? Why we are unable to ambush them/ snipe them/burn them with flame throwers? m not complaining.. Just want to know what complexities are involved in neutralizing these pigs that force us to loose young soldiers every time..


Unfortunately, constant vigilance is not a deterrent in this regard. Probability wise, there are going to be security lapses even on a tightly guarded strip like the LOC and IB. It sounds cliched but offence is really the best defence in this kind of situation. I am sure we have intel on the locations of PA and jihadi staging areas. We also have the capabilities to strike them using a variety of methods such as direct action by SF or use of field artillery. What we lack is a will to execute (mainly due to the political situation)

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Tejas.P » 20 May 2017 22:56

Deans wrote:We do not have a huge number of drones giving real time intelligence and do not shoot people if they are `suspects moving suspiciously'. So our soldiers are invariably shot at first. If there is better body armor and better squad level weapons, starting with an assault rifle, we will probably take fewer
casualties.


Frontline RR and IA units have already gotten BPJ's and have a variety of assault rifles with optics at their disposal, as of this year. I think the problem is in our lack of operating effectively at night as I have not seen any news of NVGs being disbursed. What we have are bulky passive device scopes that rely on ambient light instead of infrared lights. This pretty much leaves our guys operating in the dark when not using the scope and severely hampers our ability of observation and movement.

It's a damn shame.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Deans » 20 May 2017 23:08

Tejas.P wrote:Frontline RR and IA units have already gotten BPJ's and have a variety of assault rifles with optics at their disposal, as of this year. I think the problem is in our lack of operating effectively at night as I have not seen any news of NVGs being disbursed. What we have are bulky passive device scopes that rely on ambient light instead of infrared lights. This pretty much leaves our guys operating in the dark when not using the scope and severely hampers our ability of observation and movement.

It's a damn shame.


Our BPJ's are heavy compared to their stopping power and would slow down a soldier at higher altitudes or in rough terrain. There are insufficient and ineffective NV Devices as you point out. I'm not sure if a bullet from our assault rifles are able to stop someone as effectively as more modern rifles can.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby jamwal » 20 May 2017 23:19

Kindly share the source of suboptimal NVGs and comparison of BPJs of IA units with rest of the world.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Tejas.P » 20 May 2017 23:49

Deans wrote:
Our BPJ's are heavy compared to their stopping power and would slow down a soldier at higher altitudes or in rough terrain. There are insufficient and ineffective NV Devices as you point out. I'm not sure if a bullet from our assault rifles are able to stop someone as effectively as more modern rifles can.


AFAIK, lightweight modular bullet proof jackets have already been delivered. The older heavier ones which you mentioned are being phased out as they are at the end of their operational life. As for helmets, from what I know and can be gleaned from pictures, the new lightweight ballistic MKU helmet has already been inducted in needed areas. In fact, MoD made a large "emergency" procurement of these last year.

As for Night Vision Devices, what we need are 3rd generation NODs for at least 50 percent of our infantry units, as per Army's internal report. Apart from SF, some ghatak units these have not been in use for majority of regular RR and frontline troops.

Also which assault rifles would you recommend for IA? RR already prefers the heavier caliber 7.62mm in their AKs which they are issued. I doubt stopping power is as important as operational awareness in a counter terrorism domain.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Deans » 21 May 2017 00:18

jamwal wrote:Kindly share the source of suboptimal NVGs and comparison of BPJs of IA units with rest of the world.


Jamwal, I'm no expert, but my view comes from listening to those who have served on the LOC - I've been a company CEO and hire a lot of people
from the defense fraternity. In brief: As Tejas puts it, we have 2nd generation Night vision devices, while we need 3rd (which even Pak has). However, BEL, to the best of my knowledge, produces 2nd generation devices only and does not want to or cannot upgrade.

On BPJ's, a request was put in 10 years ago for 3.5 lac modular lt weight jackets. The request would not have happened if the current ones were
not inadequate. After 10 years the first lot of 50,000 is being delivered. Its the same story with helmets. I hope we get these fast.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Tejas.P » 21 May 2017 00:37

A quick point to add to this discussion however is the SOP that small unit patrolling parties use in the LoC. Due to the difficult terrain, I know for a fact that our troops choose to forgo a lot of equipment that a standard 'western' infantryman normally carries.

The contention is that it is easier to quickly maneuver and carry out sustained cordon and search operations when not burdened by more equipment. As to the logic of this choice, I will leave that to the local unit commanders and troops who are probably one of the most experienced at CT and COIN ops worldwide.

So either we need a system wide change in SOP, or it should be amended as needed on an operational basis. However, IMHO, any equipment that could potentially lower casualties must be a top priority.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby DrRatnadip » 21 May 2017 10:17

We should target officers of PA who give covering fire to infilterating terrorists.. We might already be doing it but its not enough i guess.. High ranking officers must be punished for this mischief..killing uniformed and ununiformed cannon fodder hardly gives pain to PA..

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby shiv » 21 May 2017 11:16

DrRatnadip wrote:We should target officers of PA who give covering fire to infilterating terrorists.. We might already be doing it but its not enough i guess.. High ranking officers must be punished for this mischief..killing uniformed and ununiformed cannon fodder hardly gives pain to PA..

Pakistani high ranking officers rarely work in the front lines.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby DrRatnadip » 21 May 2017 13:22

what else we can expect from these cowards :evil: ..

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby DrRatnadip » 21 May 2017 20:00

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/naugam- ... 775992.cms

Four terrorists were killed and three soldiers lost their lives after the Indian Army launched an operation to foil an infiltration bid in Jammu and Kashmir's Naugam sector on Saturday.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby abhishekm » 21 May 2017 20:24

shiv wrote:
DrRatnadip wrote:We should target officers of PA who give covering fire to infilterating terrorists.. We might already be doing it but its not enough i guess.. High ranking officers must be punished for this mischief..killing uniformed and ununiformed cannon fodder hardly gives pain to PA..

Pakistani high ranking officers rarely work in the front lines.


Well the Pakis tried targeting Badami Bagh cantonment in the early 2000s so no reason why we can't target senior officers where the opportunity presents. In the meantime the only thing that can be done is killing more terrorists than those who succeed in infiltrating (the arithmetic of infiltration as Lt Gen Hasnain calls it).

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby DrRatnadip » 21 May 2017 20:38

Apparently we are loosing more soldiers after surgical strikes.. We somehow failed to extract required detterent effect of such a spectacular strike.. We lost 3 soldiers today ,2 yesterday.. The rate we are loosing bravehearts is unacceptable.. Its like govt is trying to avoid bigger confrontation at all cost which is not necessarily a bad thing.. But challenge posed by our pakis is getting worse with every passing day... Killing 10 enemies even before they think of killing our 1 soldier should become new normal..

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Deans » 21 May 2017 21:55

Yes, the current casualty ratio's are unacceptable. We should not be losing so many men. That was partly behind my rant on inadequate
equipment.

What bothers me about strikes in India, like Pathankot, Uri, or Badami Bagh that Abhishek mentions, is that there is no shortage of people in Pak
willing to undertake suicide missions. Perhaps they are all brainwashed fanatics, but we do not have anyone on our side who can do the same thing. I wonder if any of our youth who feel there should be massive retaliation, would be willing to join the army and be stationed on the LOC, let alone volunteer to undertake a mission inside POK. Our SF will not be sent deeper across the border if there is an unacceptable chance of high casualties.
Exchange of heavy artillery targeting command posts (and accidently the civilian areas around them), is probably the best option, it would be a battle of attrition that Pak can only lose. That would also mean civilian casualties on both sides, but again casualty ratio's will favor India.
Last edited by Deans on 21 May 2017 22:19, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby DrRatnadip » 21 May 2017 22:12

What about an overt airstrike/ missile strike on imp target where we can eliminate maximum high value targets?.. I think pakis will be more scared to start further war than us..paki army must loose H n D in front of aam abduls..

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Deans » 21 May 2017 22:24

DrRatnadip wrote:What about an overt airstrike/ missile strike on imp target where we can eliminate maximum high value targets?.. I think pakis will be more scared to start further war than us..paki army must loose H n D in front of aam abduls..


While I will buy a drink for everyone at the bar if this happens, it will be a horrible loss of our H&D if an aircraft is shot down. Even if we have
no casualties, we gain nothing (and risk full scale war) unless we can show visible damage to important targets.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby DrRatnadip » 21 May 2017 23:02

A Well planned mission can achieve our aim of damaging important targets without undue risk.. I sincerely don't feel pakis have guts/ capability to escalate to full scale war..

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 21 May 2017 23:46

IAF tested a glide bomb with a range of 100km, if they can make it do a cross range or a U maneuver using the 'Brahmos kind of nose cap', they can hit the PA artillery accurately hiding behind the reverse slopes, an effective range of minimum of 30km with this maneuver should be sufficient, for them losing guns in peacetime is not worth it.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Tejas.P » 23 May 2017 21:11


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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby DrRatnadip » 26 May 2017 18:33

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/army-ki ... 856437.cms

NEW DELHI: The Army today avenged the May 1 beheading of two of its security men by killing two terrorists of Pakistan's Border Action Team (BAT), even as it foiled an attack in Uri by the group that's been accused of raids, assaults and brutality on the Line of Control (LoC), reported PTI.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby DrRatnadip » 27 May 2017 10:32

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/four-te ... 866150.cms

NEW DELHI: The Army on Saturday killed four terrorists in Jammu and Kashmir, thus foiling yet another infiltration bid alog the Line of Control (LoC), this time in the Rampur sector

So many pigs are getting killed..They are upto something big..

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby AlphaSierra » 27 May 2017 11:55

Times of India is reporting on its website...

Burhan Wani's successor and Hizbul commander Sabzar Bhat killed in Kashmir

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby ashish raval » 27 May 2017 12:05

Great! Pig meet his hoor. Dil mange more !! People on Twitter are engaged in semantics of his surname as to bhat being Hindu surname yada yada. They don't realise many KM and M in both pukistan, India and Kashmir took Hindu surnames in the past. My IM friends told me about that. No one should care what surname or religion he or she was because their guns and grenades don't either.

We should not allow this jokers to have 6*3 feet of out land wasted on them. They should be feed to our fish in Indian ocean leaving only their names on this earth to glorify about by their ilk..


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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby amohan2001 » 27 May 2017 12:26

Soon we will have enough data to calculate Life Expectancy of Burhan Wani Successors.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Marten » 27 May 2017 12:49

ashish raval wrote:Great! Pig meet his hoor. Dil mange more !! People on Twitter are engaged in semantics of his surname as to bhat being Hindu surname yada yada. They don't realise many KM and M in both pukistan, India and Kashmir took Hindu surnames in the past. My IM friends told me about that. No one should care what surname or religion he or she was because their guns and grenades don't either.

We should not allow this jokers to have 6*3 feet of out land wasted on them. They should be feed to our fish in Indian ocean leaving only their names on this earth to glorify about by their ilk..

Cheers to the boys!
One simple thing will take away his right to hoors -- some pork in his mouth, could be any part of the pig's body but most preferably the pig's p*nis.
If that cannot be done, then cremate him with whatever means are available in a "humane" manner -- two grenades or so might already have been part of the operation.


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