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CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Mihaylo
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Mihaylo » 28 Sep 2017 00:34

brvarsh wrote:
saje wrote:
the bodies of the Pakistani Insurgent Guys (PIGs) are displayed almost intact and with a few bullet wounds or an odd blast injury or something alike. What this does is that it sends the wrong message to these Perverted Islamic Goons (PIGs) that they can come over and get an honourable death (Shaheedgiri) at the hands of the Indian Army.


What do you expect? Army hanging their heads on poles? You don't need to be brutal to be effective.


Its all about the face. They need to blow torch their face, give them a crisp look. Followers of the Caravan raider detest fire and burns on bodies. Apparently, one doesn't get 72 hoors if one's face is burnt.

-M

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby vnms » 28 Sep 2017 03:44

Just place dead pig(could be dummy) on these aholes when taking power pics. Then they not be so eager..

We should make announcement that since these pigs do not represent true Islam, those willing to commit atrocities do not deserve to go to jannat. Therefore, we will bury these pigs in pigskin. This message should be spread far and wide.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 28 Sep 2017 05:03

Gents, while your anger and energy is appreciated.
Executing what you ask for such as hanging from trees and scorched faces + pigskin will only play into the hands of the media (ours and theirs).

Remember when one poor major cut off and surrounded took intiative to tie a suspect to his jeep and safely extracted his men.
Jeez it was like the entire world's media found an opportunity to report on Indian Army on Kashmir.

tying a man to the front of jeep was somehow more tut tut thatn IS slaughtering 40 people every day in Syria and Iraq.

My 2 cents is a recap of some wonderful officer saying this on Ted Talk.

Its their duty to meet Allah
Its our duty to ensure the meeting happens.


Kashmir is men swallowing blender right ? Let them send, we are getting practice.
it does hurt as our men die too but lets continue to right the kill ratio and it shall be fine.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 28 Sep 2017 05:04

Our COAS has focused and in turn has asked his commanders, senior mid and Juniors to improve basic infantry man tactics
Give credit to the current chief and watch all that is achieved at the end of his tenure, you might be surprised.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby vnms » 28 Sep 2017 05:26

I understand.

But my idea is to encourage them to abandon their duty to allah!

The media is going to criticize regardless.

Ah! Glad that saner people are at the helm.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby shiv » 28 Sep 2017 08:28

vnms wrote:I understand.

But my idea is to encourage them to abandon their duty to allah!

The media is going to criticize regardless.

Ah! Glad that saner people are at the helm.

The assumption here is that recruits will see these images.

Most likely they will not. Jihad recruits in Pakistan are mostly poor madarsa types who are selected as being psychologically fit for fighting. As you saw from what was shown by Pakis at the UN the Pakis will always dismiss Indian images as lies and use whatever images they want. A jihadi who has been fed and nurtured by a madarsa is hardly likely to believe Indian stories even if he gets to see them

I believe the kind of mutilation that you are talking about can only satisfy our own need to imagine that this will have an effect rather than actually affecting the Pakis who need to see them

If you recall reports after the surgical strike - the soldiers who were killed in shitland were buried in secret and not given publicity - so images of dead Pakis are proof for us to see but decorating them to discourage jihad is pointless. There are other negatives there that I will not go into now or I will end up writing an entire goddam article

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 28 Sep 2017 12:53

^ but this point does come up repeatedly. Arguments are, for example, why bury the bodies at all? Why not burn them in electric crematoriums. Surely the word will spread and may discourage some to join jehadi ranks

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 28 Sep 2017 14:02

^ Aditya G

again, how do you think that will go down.
An Army that showed images of its soldiers burying the abandoned bodies of Northern Light INfantry with proper dignity and imams is now taking to cremations.
its gonna go down like a lead baloon.

Shiv is right, the madrassas and the PoK training areas are run like areas just before d-day.
Comms are hard and total isolation methods are in place. Your news is not going to make it back into their camp. No sir.

Our chief and PM are showing what has been the only way to fix this problem.
A kill ratio in the favour of our jawan
A kill ratio that is favorable will reduce stress on our jawan
Allow him to dominate the area without second thoughts in his head.
He is more likely to never ever question orders even in the deepest corners of his head.
This will also mean he will have more confidence in the tactical directions of his officer.

Just focus on the kill ratio, rest everything will fall in place.

You also want to act as a man blender, they feed the men, we turn them into bodies.
This creates more stress on them to recruit more men, as the age gets younger on their side, so does the ability to panic and not hold your nerve.

The more young ones die, the more the mothers wail.... I think you get it where I am going with this now.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby shiv » 28 Sep 2017 19:44

Aditya G wrote:^ but this point does come up repeatedly. Arguments are, for example, why bury the bodies at all? Why not burn them in electric crematoriums. Surely the word will spread and may discourage some to join jehadi ranks

The assumption here is that in these jihadi groups - everyone from top to bottom is ideologically motivated and will hold on to these symbolic acts as bad news. In reality - the trainers and leaders are totally committed to brainwashing the actual fighting cadre to ignoring any bad news - or indeed from receiving any news at all in their indoctrination. These jihadis are being trained by a professional army that will not be fobbed off by rituals conducted by the enemy.

That said our own forces are not dumb. When they chop off genitals and heads - no photos come out and it would be naive to imagine that our men are goodygoody gumdrops who don't do all that.

Also did you notice that image of a terrorist with a shattered knee and a bullet entry wound under the jaw. I thought that was nice. The man's leg was shot and shattered so he fell. Then, at close range a bullet has been put through his lower jaw as he lay on the ground, probably moaning - smashing through the base of his skull. Touché, I thought

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby pankajs » 28 Sep 2017 19:54

There are enough videos on lets say *harsh treatment* of jihadis. Just a couple of days back there was one news on which the Army said it will investigate.

We can't have army folks indulge their whims on camera. Rest if fine. Cremation would be going too far because IA is a professional Army. :P

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby shiv » 28 Sep 2017 20:53

pankajs wrote:We can't have army folks indulge their whims on camera. Rest if fine. Cremation would be going too far because IA is a professional Army. :P


I have another objection to cremation. Crematoriums are sacred places where last rites are conducted. They are also a place where legal formalities must be followed - so the army will have to depute men to transport bodies, complete the formalities and then cremate. All crematoria has a system to collect the ashes because the ashes need to be disposed of appropriately by the family. The army cannot tell the crematorium staff to simply throw away the ashes.

It is simply not appropriate to carry bodies with parts blown out to local crematoria using energy to sterilize bodies that should be eaten by soil bacteria and whose bones can later be dug up and used for anatomy lessons in medical colleges.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 28 Sep 2017 21:26

Khalsa ji. Broadly agree with your points.

Just that a favorable kill ratio is still a ratio. With numbers on both sides. Anything and every thing which can change the ratio to an integer, on just their side, must be tried

As Shiv ji and others have said, the videos/visuals/message will not reach the braindead fodder in the jihadi camps but they are very likely to reach the potential fodder among the awam.

If you were working in my domain, you would not be surprised at the penetration of internet mobile and the time spent on it by the faithfool youth, since it is a major source of entertainment (you may guess what type) in their restrictive world. And it is a major channel of communication and organization for the not-so-nanha mujahids. Is it any wonder that in most riots cases (especially those involving ROPers) the mobile services are first to be stopped never mind if the location is in India or across the border.

Haven't we seen how the ISIS were all over social media at the start to attract the faithfools and the mullahs at other locations had to remain quiet or make a show of solidarity to try and retain their local flock. No doubt the major reason of reducing the Iscums would be the kill ratio made more favorable by the Syrians (after being aided wonderfully by the Russians) but don't you think more and more of those lovely videos of the frogfoots and the havocs blowing up and burning those scums would have had some sobering effect on at least some of the wannabe mujahids ready to leave their relatively peaceful shitholes in the hope of attaining jannat in a distant land.

Having said this, please note that i am immensely proud that our good culture and our professional army are our strength.

However when the forces of terror opposing us are demonic in nature then such terror can only be defeated by being more terrifying ourselves.

Added later after seeing post by Shiv ji - Sir agree with you that cremation might not be right. But why give the dead scum a piece of the very land which they came to die for. Throw the remains into the sea or feed them to the pigs

Incidentally this is festive time of Navaratri and Durga pooja. Among other things it would be well to remember what goddess Kali / Durga did when the devas felt constrained..

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 28 Sep 2017 22:09

Khalsa, reg your point on kill ratio.

Infiltration from PoK has been honed as an infinite resource by Pakistan, constrained only by time and tempo of the movement.

Favourable kill ratios will not be extendable beyond a point so you need to reduce infiltration for tangible gains.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby shiv » 28 Sep 2017 22:34

Manish_P wrote:Added later after seeing post by Shiv ji - Sir agree with you that cremation might not be right. But why give the dead scum a piece of the very land which they came to die for. Throw the remains into the sea or feed them to the pigs

I will post a response to this because the topic comes up so often and I have rarely stated my views.

Among Hindus in particular, and Indians in general a dead body is not looked at as an enemy or a thing with religion. It is just a non living thing which must be disposed off properly. It is considered kinky to treat a dead body as if it were living. One could have sex with a dead body. Or take a selfie. Or one could mutilate, cut off the head, hang it on a pole, or even simply eat the flesh. Harvest skin and make a wallet (I have done that, it is stupid) Culturally none of these things are acceptable. We can indoctrinate ourselves to change the culture but remember that death is a very powerful thing. Soldiers have families back home and themselves may have witnessed death of a parent or a sibling. They know that they could be the next one to be killed and will think of how their wife or father or mother will feel if their body was mutilated or treated with imbecilic idiocy. The family would feel both hurt and helpless. At best they would feel anger. But losing one's faith in religion is not going to happen by witnessing an act of uncultured stupidity - which is what it is.

I don't know if you have a Hindu view of life and death - or in fact whether you follow any religion. But do you think that disposing a dead body in an unusual or unconventional way will somehow make a big difference to the motivation of an enemy? He will likely only think the mutilators are stupid idiots who themselves need to be killed. No young adrenaline charged man will ever do anything but feel utter contempt for fools who do stupid things with corpses. If the Indian army did that "officially" the shame would be on them.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 28 Sep 2017 23:04

Shiv sir, it seems you have misunderstood me. Nowhere have I said (or feel) that the enemy dead should be mutilated.

What I have said that the enemy dead (who have likely met a violent end) should be treated as just that, dead. And disposed off without too much show of religious propriety. Your preferred method (of burial and then as bone for science) varies with mine.

Secondly, I didn't suggest showing/televising the post death events. What I was pointing to was the manner in which they met their end to be shown (again not as a rule but just as judiciously as the forces do it now, only take it to another level using our cyber power). Combine it with py-ops or whatever.

Very likely that they may be as useless as the gory visuals of the affected lungs and throat on cigarette packs, but one still tries and hopes right.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 28 Sep 2017 23:15

Shiv sir, on reflection your point is well taken. I would like to keep the 'throw them into the sea' part and remove the rest... but alas even that seems too much like the American-OBL thing.

Anyway this is all OT for this thread

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby jamwal » 28 Sep 2017 23:52

Afaik, dead bodies of terrorists are handed over to local police. Army doesn't bury them. Though it will be a nice idea to burn bodies or use them as cadavers in medical colleges. Muslims do not like donating body organs either , so both choices are better than burying hem.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 29 Sep 2017 01:35

Great stuff all, lets move off this bit.
I actually feel that it was a good discussion.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Pathik » 29 Sep 2017 11:26

Burn the bodies, but set an official rumor that every terrorist body is being burnt in pig fat. Let the prestitutes go to town with it as they usually do. Government can always deny or remain silent on it, as nobody would be doing it actually. However the rumor will expose a lot of people and make the rats come out of their holes. It would be unsettling for the terrorists too. The million dollar question would then be - who would like to take a stand against this rumour, it would be a double edged sword. Governments stand would always be valid - we burn the bodies to prevent misuse of land and burning is a dignified indian way.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Yagnasri » 29 Sep 2017 11:57

Terrorists killed can be offered to their family in Paki land. Let them come to India to take the body to pakilnad. It is not going to happen as pakis never own their terror munnas. It will defeat their entire narrative. So with no one claiming the body, it will become a destitute dead body. Performing last rites to such destitute dead body is a sacred thing for Hindus. Perform all the required rituals as per Dharma and cremate them. Problems solved and they will surely go to hell to burn in eternal fire.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 29 Sep 2017 17:15

ummm guys
lets move on. We are done with this pig fat buring trees telephone cremate bull everything

Lets honestly move on

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby joygoswami » 03 Oct 2017 12:58

2 pigs killed so far in the BSF Camp attack. Oct 03, 2017

Dead Jihadi 2

Dead Jihadi 2

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby joygoswami » 09 Oct 2017 16:35

JeM commander Khalid aka Noor Mohammad from Pakistan gets halaal treatment at Baramulla. Sept 09, 2017. Graphic content.

Image

Image

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 09 Oct 2017 16:50

What's that book, English guide or something?

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Prithwiraj » 09 Oct 2017 17:19

MBD English Guide... class 11 CBSE prep

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Kashi » 09 Oct 2017 17:57

Republic‏@republic
#BREAKING: One terrorist killed in an encounter at Shopian, gunbattle currently underway

Apparently Hizbul commander Zahid Mir killed in this encounter along with one more at least. He was reportedly a close associate of Burhan Wani.

Two more trapped.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby sum » 09 Oct 2017 18:01

Big day with both JeM and HM honchos dispatched

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby sum » 09 Oct 2017 18:03

Karthik S wrote:What's that book, English guide or something?

Apparently ran into school when cornered and was hallaled there

Lots of plainclothes men by looks of it in pics. Must be fully intel driven op

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Eric Leiderman » 10 Oct 2017 02:27

These bodies of our enemies should be donated to medical colleges or even better army medical training centres.
or do what the Chinese do and use their body parts for transplants to help our population.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 11 Oct 2017 00:01

Eric Leiderman wrote:These bodies of our enemies should be donated to medical colleges or even better army medical training centres.
or do what the Chinese do and use their body parts for transplants to help our population.

No thank you, the last thing we want is the AMC involved in sh1t fight where they have to prove their ethics and morals.

I have a simple formula,
Shoot to Kill & Dig to Bury

After that leave it to the earthworms to do their job.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby brvarsh » 11 Oct 2017 00:21

Eric Leiderman wrote:These bodies of our enemies should be donated to medical colleges or even better army medical training centres.
or do what the Chinese do and use their body parts for transplants to help our population.

Why such sentiments? We should do nothing else but quietly as Indian tradition return the body to their family if this side of the border or put it in the time bound queue if from across. There is much profound impact on their psyche if we do not lose faith in our traditions that body even of a terrorist becomes pure after shot. No this is not cowardice but extreme example of confidence and nothing impacts their moral than our confidence and smile as we flush the lanes.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Eric Leiderman » 11 Oct 2017 09:20

These are not military personnel, International conventions do not apply. Our population is short of donated organs, these personnel before death were young and in peak physical condition.
Not only should we donate the organs but the reciepants should thank Pakistan through media outlets for sending us fresh meat. I have registered myself as an organ doner, (though my liver will be useless due to constant abuse.) I do not see anything wrong in recycling these misfits into something useful. Some poor person can get quality of life out of this.
We are of different mindsets on this, over and out.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby brvarsh » 11 Oct 2017 09:36

Eric Leiderman wrote:These are not military personnel, International conventions do not apply. Our population is short of donated organs, these personnel before death were young and in peak physical condition.
Not only should we donate the organs but the reciepants should thank Pakistan through media outlets for sending us fresh meat.

What's the point of using those organs? Eyes that could not see their own future, Jigar that didn't have, Dil - that loved a wrong destiny? They are better buried so that our next next next++ generation could have plenty of Oil.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Prem » 11 Oct 2017 09:52

We lost 2 brave hearts today in Bandipora encounter . 2 terrorists were dispatched to hell.

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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby sum » 11 Oct 2017 10:13

Both were Garud cammondos of IAF "attached" to IA for training

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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 16 Oct 2017 00:44

This is what soldiering is about. This is what a soldier leaves behind. This is the cost of our freedom.
https://twitter.com/majorgauravarya/sta ... 4744420354

Thrice every week they go to the firing range and hone their craft to perfection. Amazing shooting skills.
https://twitter.com/majorgauravarya/sta ... 8374434818

With Ghatak team of 26 RR. They are the ones who do the most dangerous missions. They own the mountains. They own the night.
https://twitter.com/majorgauravarya/sta ... 4456838144

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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 17 Oct 2017 16:58

At Corps Battle School, Bhalra (J&K), soldiers are taught counter terror ops. Here is the morning JOSH RUN...5 kms of pure pain.
https://twitter.com/majorgauravarya/sta ... 5469102082

Kalika Mata Ki Jai...that’s the war cry of the Kumaon Regiment. Here...26 RR (Kumaon) goes for a run.
https://twitter.com/majorgauravarya/sta ... 8611382277

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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 17 Oct 2017 16:58

“Surrender, you will not be harmed. Fauji ki zaban hai”, said 26 RR officer in 2006. Parvez Ahmad, Commander of HM came home.
https://twitter.com/majorgauravarya/sta ... 9590891520

Image

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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 24 Oct 2017 08:36

I've always maintained that military grade ammunition supply to Naxals and other criminal elements were the most worrisome aspect.

Sadly, a NSG commando was arrested for supplying ammunition to some Delhi gangster.

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/delhi/n ... 158333.cms

Apparently pilferage of ammunition is rampant in State Police and CAPF with unscrupulous elements diverting live ammunition from forces training.

The Naxals are growing marijuana as a cash crop - the product often supplied to "liberals" in metros and JNU/DU rogue students with political aspirations and the revenue from drug trade used to fund politicians, ammunition theft and "liberal" soundbytes.

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Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 24 Oct 2017 15:06

^^ What an idiot. I mean what amount of money would he be making on measly 30 bullets, 3000? 4000? 5000? Also, given that the quality of gunsmiths that are now working in the underground market, making ammunition shouldn't be that hard. Black powder can easily be sourced from firecracker industry, and 1 kilo of it is sufficient to make hundreds of rounds. Brass isn't hard to find either.


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