CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5414
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

^ IMVHO not a good idea to increase tenure of regular Army officers and jawans towards COIN ops.

Especially with things coming to a head with the Eastern neighbor.

Need to have a dedicated branch ground up to handle COIN.

An up scaled, up gunned version of the anti-naxal forces can provide the basic template (from setup, organisational heirarchy etc). With good HUMINT and intensive ELINT capabilities.
Aldonkar
BRFite
Posts: 202
Joined: 27 Feb 2020 18:46

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Aldonkar »

Prem Kumar wrote:To rub salt into the wounds, serving and retired chiefs talk vacuously about 5th gen warfare and induct jet-packs

We have a ton of MPV options locally available but these aren't inducted in numbers. Waiting for some futuristic "F-MPV (Futuristic Mine Protected Vehicle")", I suppose

And enough of this Sadhbhavana crap. Appeasing Muslims is like feeding a crocodile, hoping that it will eat you last (to paraphrase Rajiv Malhotra). The very truck carrying Iftar supplies was destroyed & the informants were the Muslims for whom this Iftar was supposed to be for. Burn the village down, cleanse them and re-populate with Hindus. Rinse & repeat. We won't win the war in J&K (and in India) without massive social re-engineering

I agree. India must do what Israel does when their soldiers are targeted by terrorists. This also applies to their helpers in Kashmir. Destroy their homes and confiscate their land.
Jay
BRFite
Posts: 697
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 18:24
Location: Gods Country
Contact:

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Jay »

Aldonkar wrote: I agree. India must do what Israel does when their soldiers are targeted by terrorists. This also applies to their helpers in Kashmir. Destroy their homes and confiscate their land.
I do not think we have those capabilities or skillset/mindset and we are hiding behind these alleged "RAW SECRET STRIKES" myth that some social media users seems to propagate to cope with this deficiency. There is no logical reason why a country of our "power" consistently runs away from doing what needs to be done.
brvarsh
BRFite
Posts: 215
Joined: 03 Mar 2011 20:29

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by brvarsh »

Jay wrote:
Aldonkar wrote: I agree. India must do what Israel does when their soldiers are targeted by terrorists. This also applies to their helpers in Kashmir. Destroy their homes and confiscate their land.
I do not think we have those capabilities or skillset/mindset and we are hiding behind these alleged "RAW SECRET STRIKES" myth that some social media users seems to propagate to cope with this deficiency. There is no logical reason why a country of our "power" consistently runs away from doing what needs to be done.
Its not about capability alone but how consistently we can commit those resources without getting bled . Besides Pakistan, there are other foreign powers that want Kashmir to be on boiling plate. Heavy response with every strike like Israel will be unsustainable for India. We need to respond but we need to respond in the same language, to the tipping point of Pakistan while keep strengthening the multi-tier security mesh to prevent such attacks and use of new technology we have acquired and developed.
Jay
BRFite
Posts: 697
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 18:24
Location: Gods Country
Contact:

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Jay »

brvarsh wrote: Its not about capability alone but how consistently we can commit those resources without getting bled . Heavy response with every strike like Israel will be unsustainable for India. We need to respond but we need to respond in the same language, to the tipping point of Pakistan while keep strengthening the multi-tier security mesh to prevent such attacks and use of new technology we have acquired and developed.
This is what I meant to the lack of capability and mindset to get us going the escalation ladder. We take these losses not only because we can live with them, but this is what the enemy is capable of right now. It's too soon to say if we retaliate on the personnel and infra behind these recent attacks but with every passing day it seem we might not address them.
Last edited by Jay on 09 May 2023 22:58, edited 1 time in total.
MeshaVishwas
BRFite
Posts: 869
Joined: 16 Feb 2019 17:20

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Tracking over J&K now:
IAI Heron TP Eitan UAV 4X-UMI tracking near Srinagar Jammu and Kashmir.
-@GDarkconrad on Twitter
Terroristan's upto some diversion as usual, it seems
sajaym
BRFite
Posts: 315
Joined: 04 Feb 2019 09:11

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by sajaym »

https://www.greaterkashmir.com/pir-panj ... -officials

Look at the pic in this article. What a waste of opportunity!

While terrorists are taking go-pro videos of them killing our soldiers, our soldiers are busy taking cute school-picnic like pics of them posing with captured terrorists. This type of behaviour just reinforces our image as a soft nation and the cycle continues.

Just imagine what if we took go-pro videos of these terrorists being killed and post them on twitter? Or pics of dead terrorists with their d**ks stuffed in their mouth? Such kind of strong, tit for tat messaging is what puts the fear of death in your enemies and freezes the blood in their veins every time they think of making another go-pro video of our dead soldiers.
S_Madhukar
BRFite
Posts: 517
Joined: 27 Mar 2019 18:15

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by S_Madhukar »

I keep hearing of this steel bullets being used by terrorists on our Paras recently… is there any reason we don’t use them at least when an operation is on ? Don’t understand how terrorist has a leg up in infantry tactics and why not use anything from 50 cal to anti material rifles in such situations. Yes I want my guys to be armed like Rambo !
Zynda
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2309
Joined: 07 Jan 2006 00:37
Location: J4

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Zynda »

According to chatter on Twitter, PAFF tangos who took on Para recently were most probably trained by TSP SSG and some handles are even pointing to some training inputs from Turkish SOF or their elite infantry units. So these guys were trained as good as any elite soldier (if not commando level)...Steel bullets usage could be due to body armour piercing capability...IIRC, IA had encountered & recovered such ammunition from earlier encounters in the valley. Again, based on comments from Twitter & other forums, a bunch of mistakes were made from IA side which led to debacle...hopefully IA will learn from these incidents and encourage more usage of technology along with improved tactics & kits to make sure we stay ahead in the game.
Zynda
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2309
Joined: 07 Jan 2006 00:37
Location: J4

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Zynda »

S_Madhukar wrote: Don’t understand how terrorist has a leg up in infantry tactics and why not use anything from 50 cal to anti material rifles in such situations.
Seems like tangos were holed up in caves and used this to their advantage. When Paras rushed in, they were ambushed (not sure if IEDs were used to either trap them or disorient them)...not sure how 50 cal or snipers could be of help...probably K9s fitted with cameras could be of some use...yes, it would give away presence of forces and lose element of surprise...but surprise can sadly work both ways.
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5414
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

sajaym wrote:https://www.greaterkashmir.com/pir-panj ... -officials
Look at the pic in this article. What a waste of opportunity!
...
Well, from a pure psyops angle the bare minimum which needs to be done is to show just one SDRE soldier standing guard over multiple jihadis

In our photos, including the one above, it is always a bunch of our soldiers guarding one or two scrawny jihadis.

It conveys that 1 jihadi = 10 kufr.. and that this sort of asymmetric warfare is more costly for us
(and in reality it is, when we lose frontline officers/jawans for these expendable zombies)

PS: the same is actually seen in most police photos as well. a bunch of police personnel guarding 1-2 crooks. The inspectors and havaldars all want in on the photo-op.
vikassh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 68
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 14:09

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by vikassh »

Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5414
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

vikassh wrote:5 more dispatched yesterday.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 29729.html
Their handler in Pakistan is reported as being a afghan-campaign experienced pashtun named Pathan.

Just the other day someone mentioned about pashtun/pathans as being less fanatical towards hindus
vikassh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 68
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 14:09

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by vikassh »

"Four #terrorists have been neutralised in Kala Jungle of Machhal sector in #Kupwara during a joint operation by the Army and Police. They were making an infiltration attempt from POJK,"

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/jk- ... 99425.html

It seems full planning to push as many terrorists as it is possible this season. But good show by forces
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4218
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Edited Later: turns out to be fake news. Ministry has clarified that an infiltration was stopped and action happened on our side

Twitterverse & Jagran are reporting a surgical strike by Para, going 2 - 2.5 Km inside PoK and neutralizing 8 pigs (BAT & PA regulars)

Ask Google Chrome to translate into English if needed

https://www.jagran.com/jammu-and-kashmi ... 08265.html

https://twitter.com/MeghUpdates/status/ ... 7630521648
sajaym
BRFite
Posts: 315
Joined: 04 Feb 2019 09:11

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by sajaym »

Prem Kumar wrote: 22 Aug 2023 08:55 Edited Later: turns out to be fake news. Ministry has clarified that an infiltration was stopped and action happened on our side

Twitterverse & Jagran are reporting a surgical strike by Para, going 2 - 2.5 Km inside PoK and neutralizing 8 pigs (BAT & PA regulars)
If it was fake news, makes you wonder why PA would threaten retaliation just for the halal-ing of two PIGs (Pakistani Insurgent Guys). Hain ji?

https://youtu.be/C0qOFn4pyGc?si=cQhYVc9CjC2x8w3U
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4218
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

True. One does not know, on which side the action happened. Without inside info, we can only go by what the IA or MoD says

Even if they did a cross-border raid, they may have reasons to downplay it
Deans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2509
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Deans »

sajaym wrote: 25 Aug 2023 07:31
Prem Kumar wrote: 22 Aug 2023 08:55 Edited Later: turns out to be fake news. Ministry has clarified that an infiltration was stopped and action happened on our side

Twitterverse & Jagran are reporting a surgical strike by Para, going 2 - 2.5 Km inside PoK and neutralizing 8 pigs (BAT & PA regulars)
If it was fake news, makes you wonder why PA would threaten retaliation just for the halal-ing of two PIGs (Pakistani Insurgent Guys). Hain ji?

https://youtu.be/C0qOFn4pyGc?si=cQhYVc9CjC2x8w3U
My take on the declining insurgency in Kashmir and cross border firing, in my blog rpdeans,blogspot.com
Do follow for updates.
sajaym
BRFite
Posts: 315
Joined: 04 Feb 2019 09:11

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by sajaym »

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/j-k/2 ... ter-543993

Major operation ongoing in J&K. 3 of ours KIA. RIP. Salute.

Check out this video, army has pressed 3 cheetah into the operation.

https://youtu.be/QlT4BB1wKDA?si=ei0DywaG0eGFVB5g
Last edited by sajaym on 13 Sep 2023 21:06, edited 2 times in total.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18262
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

^^^ CO of 19RR has been killed. Very sad.

Army will take vengeance.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18262
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://x.com/TheSatishDua/status/17019 ... 70633?s=20 ---> Saddened by the loss of Colonel Manpreet Singh, Major Aashish Dhonchak and Deputy Superintendent Humayun Bhat in an encounter with terrorists. 19 RR is the same unit that eliminated Burhan Wani in 2016 when I was Corps Commander. They will avenge. RIP Brothers. Jai Hind.

Image
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

This warrants some cross border artillery strikes
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4218
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Prem Kumar wrote: 08 May 2023 19:26 PAFF assholes have released a gopro video of the truck ambush, including the killing of an RR jawan

I don't want to drop it in here. But we should post about it on Twitter and tag the PM, RM etc. As gut-wrenching as it is, its important for those in power to watch it.

Response has to be massive and not just against the jihadis. We were careful even when we bumped off 300 yahoos in Balakot, that we didn't touch the PA. In retaliation they almost bombed our Brigade HQ.

I hope & pray that we create 10X the number of widows, orphans & grieving mothers in the PA, compared to what we suffered
Modi/Shah/Doval did crap-all about the Poonch and Rajouri attacks in April-May and we continue to bleed like this. Modi thinks that 1 surgical strike every 4 years with some infinite planning will do. I can predict with 100% certainty that there will be no cross-border action on any massive scale. Vishwaguru is busy building G20 consensus

We need to kill pigs, their handlers and their families in $hitistan, not on our turf. While the present dispensation is 100X better than Congi-traitors, what we do vis-a-vis our capability/economic-size etc is ridiculous.

A few days later, we will celebrate the killing of some LeT pigs & a masked gunman shooting dead their handler. Pathetically insufficient. If we cannot inflict a 1:20 kill ratio at a minimum, with leadership-targeting, why have one of the largest armies in the world?
Jay
BRFite
Posts: 697
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 18:24
Location: Gods Country
Contact:

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Jay »

Rakesh wrote: 13 Sep 2023 21:00 ^^^ CO of 19RR has been killed. Very sad.

Army will take vengeance.
We keep hearing this yet, these same incidents keep on happening. Army's vengeance is not being heard nor is it enough to break the cycle. Nothing I have learnt seems to say it will be any different this time because of this loss.

May their brave souls rest in peace.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18262
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Jay wrote: 14 Sep 2023 00:46We keep hearing this yet, these same incidents keep on happening. Army's vengeance is not being heard nor is it enough to break the cycle. Nothing I have learnt seems to say it will be any different this time because of this loss.

May their brave souls rest in peace.
I empathise with your sentiment. I really do.

And I am not going to comment on the steps the Army will take, because the honest truth is that I do not have a single clue. But the Indian Army being the honorable Army that it is, will see through what needs to be done.

I do realise that it is frustrating and infuriating, but to satisfy the citizenry's wish for revenge...the Govt cannot go in guns blazing at every opportunity that is presented. In some cases, a visible (public) strike may not achieve a desired long term objective. There are other options to turn the screws (which is not publicly visible) on Pakistan and those steps will be undertaken. And while it will not have the desired public effect (i.e. Balakot), it is the best possible route that the Govt can undertake at the present moment. We have the luxury of looking at this through a single prism i.e. revenge, but the Govt has to look at this issue through multiple prisms and game out each scenario in each prism.

The only way to break the cycle is to go in and destroy the terror camps. But how many will you destroy? Will you destroy them all? If they scatter, they will only regroup at a later stage. And this is just the terror camps. If these terror camps are in Pakistan (not PoK), that will mean war. Now when emotions are running high, the response (not you!) will be ---> If that means war, then so be it! Those are nice sound bytes to say, when you are not the one looking at the barrel of a AK-47.

====================================================================

See this exchange between Indira Gandhi and Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw (when refugees were streaming into India from the then East Pakistan) in April 1971, but as relevant today…

IG: I want you to enter Pakistan.

SM: That means war!

IG: I do not mind if it is war.

SM: God said let there be light and there was light. Now you say let there be war and there will be war. But are you prepared? I am certainly not. This is the end of April. The Himalayan passes are opening and there can be an attack from China.
sajaym
BRFite
Posts: 315
Joined: 04 Feb 2019 09:11

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by sajaym »

Not from a reliable source but...
Fresh-gunfight-breaks-out-in-kashmirs-kokernag-day-after-commanding-officer-major-dsp-killed-2-militants-trapped
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/j-k/f ... 4wLjAuMA..
The joint team of Army and police had trekked 1km inside the jungle after receiving an input about the presence of militants in the area.

On Wednesday, three security personnel -- a colonel commanding a battalion and a major, and a J&K DSP were killed in the gunfight with terrorists in Kokorenag area while a soldier went missing. :shock:
The officers succumbed to their injuries later, the officials said, adding that a jawan also died. The whereabouts of another soldier were not immediately known and it is feared he might have been seriously wounded. :eek:
The terrorist group involved in the current encounter seems to be the same one which was involved in the encounters in May this year which killed 9 of our soldiers. This 'Resisitance Front ' is claimed to be a 'shadow group ' of the LeT, but looks like it maybe comprised of some SSG types because their modus operandi seems to be:
1. Set up well sited ambushes with explosives
2. Attack and then quickly disappear into the heavy jungles
3. Take go-pro videos of their attacks to disseminate through social media
The ease with which these guys are coming in & out of the forests makes me wonder whether they might have set up tunnels like in Vietnam.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5481
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

the Govt cannot go in guns blazing at every opportunity that is presented
There in lies the rub. Why should we go along this thinking as if it was some axiomatic truth wrt Pakistan?

The nation wants to know.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18262
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Cyrano wrote: 14 Sep 2023 14:54
the Govt cannot go in guns blazing at every opportunity that is presented
There in lies the rub. Why should we go along this thinking as if it was some axiomatic truth wrt Pakistan?

The nation wants to know.
Let me answer your question with a question of my own ---> What is your proposal to tackle this issue head on?

How would you eliminate terrorism in Pakistan? See Israel wrt to the terrorists in Palestine and the US wrt to their military misadventures (nation building) in Iraq and Afghanistan. How have those issues worked out for either country? And especially Israel which is a country that always retaliates when attacked. But has that stopped terrorism attacks on Israeli citizens? I am genuinely asking and open to ideas.

The only country that successfully eliminated terrorism from their soil is Sri Lanka. They were brutal about it, but they achieved it. But this is Sri Lanka - a nation that exports coconuts and cinnamon bark. Can India be clubbed along in the same sphere of geopolitical influence as Sri Lanka? And unlike Sri Lanka, what India does has global economic and political ramifications. The Japanese in the Second World War were brutally aggressive. But after dropping two n-bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Japanese people are now busy catching imaginary Pokémons in the air. It is only China's military posturing that has woken them up from their slumber. In both instances - Sri Lanka and Japan - their will to fight was broken. How do you defeat Pakistan's will to fight without going scorched earth on Pakistan?

Is it possible to go scorched earth on Pakistan? I am not talking about the military capability (which definitely exists), but I am talking about the political will. The Indian Army is a blunt instrument. It is not a scalpel. When you send the Army out do something, they will do it. But is the Govt of India prepared for the geopolitical fallout that will come from this decision? These are not very easy questions to answer.

Pakistan is slowly, but surely, balkanizing. It will disintegrate and India better be prepared for the mass influx of refugees that will stream in. Those refugees will have terrorists embedded among them and will be waiting to conduct the next terrorist act on Indian soil, at the first opportunity they get. What is the plan to stop these people from streaming in? Do you think a simple NO will suffice?
SRajesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2069
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by SRajesh »

^^ I have no doubts about the capabilities or intent
I personally feel that the the Triumvirate are biding their time
Autumn and no snow yet
A rattled China with internal troubles
A Soros sponsored opposition
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18262
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

^^^ Bingo.

India's real enemies are the ones living in the country i.e. the ones who propagate Aman Ki Aasha (AKA).

The I.N.D.I. Alliance has her ranks filled with these AKA types.
SidSom
BRFite
Posts: 144
Joined: 01 May 2011 07:49

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by SidSom »

Rakesh wrote: 14 Sep 2023 18:53 What is the plan to stop these people from streaming in? Do you think a simple NO will suffice?
Rakesh, I think the answer lies somewhere between both banks of the river. There has been a relative calm after Balakot until this Govt has gotten into poll mode. The past few months have seen this terrorist tempo rise and really this govt is not talking about it (at least there is no splash on the MSM) so as to not be pushed into taking any action. Dont think action is demanded at the drop of a hat, we are talking about a Col, a Major a DSP and a canine Kent. These are big names and this definitely deserves more than a slap on the diplomatic wrist. From what I have heard from ppl on ground, at all times India knows (broadly) about developments on the other side of LoC. For E.g. how many ppl are being trained and where. I think in a country as bananas as Paki it would be difficult to keep these things a secret. I do think this has to be constantly degraded. And remember the reason Abhinandan was returned under he fear of missile attack. It is good to instill a little more fear that what Morarji Desai and IK Gujral have instilled into the Pakis.Pakis are not palestine or Lanka (Chechen were also stamped out by brute force) how ever with the way their economy is, we have to make it costly for them. There are many options with us, Economically, kinetically and otherwise . Which need to be exercised.

Carrot and Stick always works. Just in case of Pak the Size of the stick far outweighs the Carrot.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5481
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

This is not an era of war, but that doesn't apply to legitimate self defense.

Those $*$*#@ are daring to continue these attacks precisely because since decades, India has not adopted a scorched earth policy while they have not given up Gazwa e hind one bit.

EVERY TIME there is a terrorist attack in India, irrespective of the number of our civilians or soldiers lost, we should do an air strike/surgical strike/missile strike on Pakistan. After each such riposte, GoB should simply make a statement, this is our reply for XYZ incident. Don't say anything more. Don't offer proof or do pressers with evidence - nothing. Those who need to know will know. Just act and keep silent.

Don't worry about proportionality, escalation, nook thresholds, world opinion, 5T economy, log kya kaheney, opposition, elections, Soros, clash of religions, energy security, ME relations etc etc. After the 3rd such riposte, PM must say that India is willing to go to any length to preserve the lives of its citizen. Keep doing it for a year. And then we'll see who and what survives.

Thats my solution. It will work.

PS: Bharat and Israel are different countries, we can do things Israel cannot even dream of, with 1.4 Billion people. We can run over the entire Ummah if we really want to.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18262
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

SidSom wrote: 14 Sep 2023 22:51....There are many options with us, Economically, kinetically and otherwise . Which need to be exercised.
I do agree with your post, because I said this earlier ---> "There are other options to turn the screws on Pakistan." Those options will be exercised.

An immediate & publicly visible tit-for-tat may not always work every time. Lt Gen Satish Dua (retd) has stated that the Army will seek revenge. So let them, at a time and place of their choosing.
Cyrano wrote: 14 Sep 2023 23:03 EVERY TIME there is a terrorist attack in India, irrespective of the number of our civilians or soldiers lost, we should do an air strike/surgical strike/missile strike on Pakistan. After each such riposte, GoB should simply make a statement, this is our reply for XYZ incident. Don't say anything more. Don't offer proof or do pressers with evidence - nothing. Those who need to know will know. Just act and keep silent.
Look at both the 2016 Indian Line of Control and the 2019 Balakot strikes. Pakistan in both instances, through subterfuge and deception, has managed to control the narrative. Their people believe that nothing - as to what India has claimed - actually occurred. It is not that India needs the validation of the Pakistani populace, but by lying about what transpired has provided the Pakistan Army with zero incentive to respond in a tit-for-tat manner. And this is important for the Pakistan Army, because they lack any serious offensive capability. So it is business as usual for the Pakistan Army i.e. continue to send terrorists across the border. Minimum investment for maximum effect.

For the first time since 1947, their citizenry despises the Pakistan Army (because of Imran Khan aka Imm the Dim). If India conducts another air or surgical strike, it better be a strike that removes any doubt or ambiguity as to what has occurred. But if it is going to be a repeat of the previous two strikes, then nothing will change. And any strike without concrete evidence will turn the attention of the Pakistani populace away from the real criminal organization in Pakistan, which is their Army. It will also unify their citizenry behind the Pakistan Army. And there is nothing the Pakistan Army will love more than such a scenario. The Pakistani aam junta already believes their Army is corrupt, but humiliate the Pakistan Army and then that will be justice served.

Now the Pakistan Army - in their burning desire to prove their manhood and preserve their meticulously cultivated H&D - will respond. And this could potentially escalate, but India better be prepared for such an escalation. But for India to sit silent and provide nothing beyond a statement will not change the ground reality. Do both --> conduct the strike and also control the narrative (i.e. provide irrefutable evidence). That is assuming, India wants to adopt the air or surgical strike route to respond to this latest terrorist attack.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5481
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

The more info GoB puts out there the more idiotic media at home, bif gangs and intl anti India forces will have a field day. The dead bodies of our soldiers and civilians are evidence enough saar.

At some point Bharat has to say to anyone who questions it's actions, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

You can't become a world power with this analysis paralysis.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5481
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

Just heard Maj Gaurav Arya wax eloquent on these latest attacks and proudly say
- our officers are just 4% of the armed forces and take 3x casualties, because thay invariably lead from the front.

Absolutely true. But what does this say about the leadership that wastes such a lethal and precious fighting edge that requires enormous effort by the soldiers and the nation to hone year after year, and ends up wasting it fighting terrorist scum AT HOME decade after decade with no end in sight?

- That India will never bomb entire hamlets to eliminate terrorists because we are moral, ethical etc. Of course we are.

But again this kind of axiomatic blindness doesn't question how come (afaik from public domain info) we never hear of anyone from the local population getting arrested, jailed, sentenced for abetting these terrorists? Why fear alienating people who are already colluding with them by keeping silent at best and lining up to join them at worst?

This is what we feared when this terrorism started decades ago and this fear shaped our own narrative and policy for a long time, and if we are once again mourning our brave, obviously the approach hasn't worked out.

Good and evil don't play by the same rules. Pure evil follows no rules. Good discarding rules "contextually" when all else has been tried doesn't make it evil.

Unless we have bought into a western axiom that "the ends don't justify the means" and forgot what Dharma in kaliyuga needs. We have learnt nothing from Mahabharatam and Sri Krishna it seems!
drnayar
BRFite
Posts: 924
Joined: 29 Jan 2023 18:38

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by drnayar »

Need some serious artillery pounding on all the paki launchpads ..let's see how the rats come out..and take them out with drones.
Tbh a nice balikot redux near to election time would be a morale booster for the country
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5481
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

What we need is to decimate Pindi, Abbottabad, Kahuta, Sargodha ityadi. Unless the military leadership and the nook swagger are both castrated, these neck row phillic demons will keep coming back again and again - their whole existence is predicated on destroying Bharat.
srin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2509
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by srin »

My thought is to retaliate to every terror attack by straightening the LOC just a little, one Baki post at a time and do it silently. We gain territory, the Baki army gets the message but it still saves their H&D, so they likely will not escalate.
sanjayc
BRFite
Posts: 1091
Joined: 22 Aug 2016 21:40

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by sanjayc »

Rakesh wrote: 14 Sep 2023 20:07 ^^^ Bingo.

India's real enemies are the ones living in the country i.e. the ones who propagate Aman Ki Aasha (AKA).

The I.N.D.I. Alliance has her ranks filled with these AKA types.
The biggest strength of all these BIF forces is the common non-thinking, non-cerebral Hindus who keep voting for them, bringing them into power again and again to rule Hindus and get Hindus persecuted. Gandhi and Nehru were put into circulation by the blind support of this unthinking class of Hindus, who, as one commentator remarked, had "uncultivated minds." Same class of Hindus is putting DMK and Mamta in power.
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5414
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Rakesh wrote: 15 Sep 2023 00:32 ... India wants to adopt the air or surgical strike route to respond to this latest terrorist attack.
The issue is strike against 'who' exactly?

The 'time and place of our choosing' has been clear for decades before i was born.... it is the 'target' which is the problem.

Earlier when the border was hot, our strikes (with artillery) would hit the regular Paki fauj every now and then.

When they saw that they cannot compete, they shifted to use-and-throw 'non-state' actors. So unless we hit their regular forces (maybe happening clandestinely), what we are really doing now is just equating our trained professional soldiers with their trained jihadis.
Post Reply