CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

member_24684 · Post by **member_24684** » 28 Nov 2014 20:23

xave wrote:
APFSDS is only useful for making neat little holes in tanks, the tank armour and the tungsten or DU penetrator (just a huge metal crossbow bolt without any explosives) results in a spray of molten metal and shrapnel on the inside from the impact. This does not always happen and sometimes the round will pass right through both sides of the tank, in these cases you need to hope for a lucky shot to hit someone or something critical inside the tank.

Against a more organic target like a Bunker or even against troops in the open, APFSDS will not be able to hit a hard enough surface to be able to break into shrapnel. So in essence you are shooting a giant crossbow bolt at above the speed of sound and hoping you hit someone.

As suggested above, HESH (the equivalent of a molotov cocktail but with high explosives instead of fuel) would work a lot better.

But why go that far, using the tank for protection and just using the co-axial machine gun would be enough. I doubt the terrorists brought anti tank weapons with them.

P.S. The article states that the terrorists were dressed in army uniforms, is this a new tactic adopted by the porkis? I dont recall hearing of them using our uniforms to ambush in the past.

maybe they Bring some ..Photo from Oneindia

for this Small Op they taken more than 24+ Hours and even no news about Completion ..

i don't know why this much of time needed to taken out those Terrorists

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 28 Nov 2014 21:48

Militants? Terrorists? Paki Infiltrators?

What is the term used by GoI?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 28 Nov 2014 22:43

Army soldiers arrive in a tank during a gunbattle with armed suspected militants at Pindi Khattar village in Arnia border sector, about 43 kilometers (27 miles) south of Jammu on Thursday, Nov. 27, 2014. (AP Photo)

ndian army soldiers load ammunition into a tank during a gunbattle with armed suspected militants at Pindi Khattar village in Arnia border sector, about 43 kilometers (27 miles) south of Jammu on Thursday, Nov. 27, 2014. (AP Photo)

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 29 Nov 2014 02:38

That's not a tank but then DDM won't know a mortar from a motor as Sam would have put it.

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 29 Nov 2014 04:11

Raja Bose wrote:That's not a tank but then DDM won't know a mortar from a motor as Sam would have put it.

Or guerrilla from a gorilla

member_28840 · Post by **member_28840** » 29 Nov 2014 05:57

uddu wrote:

thanks for sharing. Did anyone catch that they brought the BMPs in on Flat bed trucks?

SajeevJino wrote:
maybe they Bring some ..Photo from Oneindia

for this Small Op they taken more than 24+ Hours and even no news about Completion ..

i don't know why this much of time needed to taken out those Terrorists

That is not APFSDS... Google Images should give you an idea of what they look like.

That is whats left of an RPG round after the shaped charge has exploded. Its possibly from an RPG 22 family

As to why its taking so much time... We have enough troops to surround and wait till the pigs are fatigued before moving in to finish. we can rest and replace the guys on point but they cant. A sleep deprived and drowsy enemy is better than one who can think on his feet.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 29 Nov 2014 06:40

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 29 Nov 2014 06:41

^^xave ji if this is the strategy army followed/following in this situation, then I must say its a very poor one. IMHO

Bot in the bherld is that Sharma Sahab.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 29 Nov 2014 06:42

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 29 Nov 2014 06:59

SagarAg wrote:^^xave ji if this is the strategy army followed/following in this situation, then I must say its a very poor one. IMHO

Bot in the bherld is that Sharma Sahab.

Not sure. Guess would be UAV

Vinod Ji · Post by **Vinod Ji** » 29 Nov 2014 07:20

[quote="Aditya G"]

Army soldiers arrive in a tank during a gunbattle with armed suspected militants at Pindi Khattar village in Arnia border sector, about 43 kilometers (27 miles) south of Jammu on Thursday, Nov. 27, 2014. (AP Photo)

These are not TANKS but armored carriers.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 29 Nov 2014 09:51

The army unit is clearly not a RR bn. Seems to be a recce unit of the mechanized infantry.

A Sharma wrote:

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 29 Nov 2014 11:38

^^^ SATA Battery?

parikh · Post by **parikh** » 29 Nov 2014 13:11

IA will eventually retaliate in burka mode later as it has been doing, imho there should be a change in policy. Pakis suffer in silence and being the dogs they are forget the hiding after some time.

New policy should be called Wasseypur Policy or "Keh ke loonga" policy , where the formula for Paki Army casualties for each IA casualty is defined and published. After every incident the Paki army / Ranger unit supporting the infiltration should be informed via that they are the chosen ones and are due x casualties. Calls should be also made to their families at home , informing them of their good fortune.

Post this punishment should follow (artillery firing directly over open sights) and evidence released publicly.

Follow up calls to the Paki unit stating that next time , they should be courteous to call in advance to inform us of an infiltration attempt.

joygoswami · Post by **joygoswami** » 29 Nov 2014 13:52

From yesterday's encounter, source is FB.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 271be2ada0

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 29 Nov 2014 14:03

member_24684 · Post by **member_24684** » 29 Nov 2014 14:26

.

Oh yeah Love to see such a revenge by our Soldiers

This is how we should deal with Terrorists . Not just a Bullet in the Forehead Complete Destruction of their Bodies

did our soldiers used Flame throwers ..seems one Pig's entire Leg burnt

member_24684 · Post by **member_24684** » 29 Nov 2014 14:27

.

damn another fresh Terrorists Attack

Times Now Reports

J&K: At least 4 civilians injured after terrorists hurled grenade at a CRPF bunker in Lal Chowk, Srinagar

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 29 Nov 2014 14:33

not leg, his half of bottom half has been burnt

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 29 Nov 2014 14:34

these arent terrorist , they look more like regular army, but with paki pigs both are the same anyway

vaibhav.n · Post by **vaibhav.n** » 29 Nov 2014 14:45

More Pics...

Screen Grab of the bunker and general position in question from where the Porkis were firing.

Bodies of all four slain militants, who were part of suicide squad of Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) outfit were recovered from the village. From the site of encounter, Army recovered four AK-47 rifles, one pistol, one IED, one disposal rocket launcher, two fired disposable rocket launcher cases, three radio sets, hand grenades and a large quantity of AK ammunition.
Army’s 157 TA, 5 JAK RIF, 5 Sikh Li and Para Commandos took part in operation against the fidayeens.

“On Friday morning, when Army soldiers went to check the makeshift bunker in which the militant was hiding, he threw a grenade on an armored vehicle, damaging it,” sources said. Army spokesman Lt Col Manish Mehta confirmed three soldiers were killed in the operation. “The soldiers have been identified as Naik Kulvinder and Lance Naik Joginder, both from 5 Sikh Li and Naik Pawan Singh of 1 Para (SF).

member_28840 · Post by **member_28840** » 29 Nov 2014 15:49

SagarAg wrote:^^xave ji if this is the strategy army followed/following in this situation, then I must say its a very poor one. IMHO

Bot in the bherld is that Sharma Sahab.

Sagar Ji, Why do you consider the tactic a poor one?

We had them surrounded - so there is no escape.
They were boxed in, in the bunker - so they could not attack civilians.
We have a massive manpower advantage - so they could not tie up troops needed elsewhere.

In this case time is something we had plenty of. Why should we risk our soldiers? so we can say we killed them within X hours ? Anyway we don't really know what happened there.

vaibhav.n wrote:
Bodies of all four slain militants, who were part of suicide squad of Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) outfit were recovered from the village. From the site of encounter, Army recovered four AK-47 rifles, one pistol, one IED, one disposal rocket launcher, two fired disposable rocket launcher cases, three radio sets, hand grenades and a large quantity of AK ammunition.
Army’s 157 TA, 5 JAK RIF, 5 Sikh Li and Para Commandos took part in operation against the fidayeens.

Even though they say LeT, i have a gut feeling these were a Paki "Border Action Team", up to their usual tricks, that got caught, surrounded and killed.

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Nov 2014 15:57

So we lost a para sf jawan also despite the turds being boxed in?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 30 Nov 2014 00:47

They look like Paki army/SSG personnel - that pic of the burnt pig needs to be publicized to all wannabe pigs waiting across the border to hammer the point home that if they do Jihad in India, they won't be getting any 72 (half burnt pigs are denied entry into jannat).

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 30 Nov 2014 01:04

joygoswami wrote:From yesterday's encounter, source is FB.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 271be2ada0

Beautiful. And before burying them plizz to chop the heads off, according to how the Prophet (PBUH) did in his life. (He believed that if the head was connected to the body, these guys will come back as ghosts).

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 30 Nov 2014 01:12

xave wrote:thanks for sharing. Did anyone catch that they brought the BMPs in on Flat bed trucks?<SNIP>

The BMP-2 would've been brought from Samba - which is the nearest military cantonment (and scene of attack on 16 Cavalry Regiment) and also home to an (I) Armored Bde.

As far as possible, IA avoids tracked vehicles on roads or for purposes other than training/operational requirement. Eats into the life of tracks.

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 30 Nov 2014 08:06

xave wrote:
SagarAg wrote:^^xave ji if this is the strategy army followed/following in this situation, then I must say its a very poor one. IMHO

Bot in the bherld is that Sharma Sahab.
Sagar Ji, Why do you consider the tactic a poor one?

We had them surrounded - so there is no escape.
They were boxed in, in the bunker - so they could not attack civilians.
We have a massive manpower advantage - so they could not tie up troops needed elsewhere.

In this case time is something we had plenty of. Why should we risk our soldiers? so we can say we killed them within X hours ? Anyway we don't really know what happened there.

xave ji to start with, they were holed up in a bunker. So a waiting game at that position should be avoided as its directly facing the border with TSP or within its striking range. Your guess is as good as mine on this as to what would have happened if the operation was allowed to extend over time.

One thing still puzzles me is why were so many units involved in this particular operation.

joygoswami · Post by **joygoswami** » 30 Nov 2014 18:29

joygoswami · Post by **joygoswami** » 30 Nov 2014 18:59

Raja Bose wrote:They look like Paki army/SSG personnel - that pic of the burnt pig needs to be publicized to all wannabe pigs waiting across the border to hammer the point home that if they do Jihad in India, they won't be getting any 72 (half burnt pigs are denied entry into jannat).

The pigs killed yesterday look too sdre to be Pak SSG Personnel. Most likely they are Kashmiri village idiots. An mango Paki SSG personal would be a much taller 6 feet plus TFTA hunk.

Edit: They have been wearing such gear for some time. Ex: Feb 19 in Chrar-e-sharif, Aug 24 encounter in Kupwara , Nov 14 in Kulgam etc.

http://u4uvoice.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... itanat.jpg
http://u4uvoice.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... d-site.jpg

http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a_s/ ... c_rate=230

http://kashmir-today.net/wp-content/upl ... 4812_n.jpg

Source : u4uvoice.com/

member_28840 · Post by **member_28840** » 30 Nov 2014 19:31

LokeshC wrote: Beautiful. And before burying them plizz to chop the heads off, according to how the Prophet (PBUH) did in his life. (He believed that if the head was connected to the body, these guys will come back as ghosts).

I would advocate cutting of some other things so they cant enjoy their 72...

But on a more serious note, we shouldn't be going down to that level. Till 9/11 the world just thought of this as some squabble between us and the pakis. But since then the world has begun to see the brutality and savagery of the "extremist Islamists". Today Pakistan has lost just about all the credibility it had with the rest of the world while we are increasingly being seen as a responsible & non violent state. This situation is just going to get worse for them and better for us. We should not be doing anything that can damage our reputation.

I predict that one day when the balkanization of Pakistan has truly begun in earnest, no one will object to us waltzing in taking back our land. We will be looked as the saviors and not as the invaders.

member_28840 · Post by **member_28840** » 30 Nov 2014 19:43

I am liking how our kit seems to be improving. Although I would be happier to see body armor that provides better coverage.

From the two pic's of the UAV, I cant seem to notice a camera on it. Also why the bright red paint job? So we can see it better while controlling it from the ground?

As to the LeT pigs wearing infantry gear, let me hazard a guess and say it was very charitably donated by the Pak army and paid for by the U.S funding.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 30 Nov 2014 20:01

joygoswami wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:They look like Paki army/SSG personnel - that pic of the burnt pig needs to be publicized to all wannabe pigs waiting across the border to hammer the point home that if they do Jihad in India, they won't be getting any 72 (half burnt pigs are denied entry into jannat).
The pigs killed yesterday look too sdre to be Pak SSG Personnel. Most likely they are Kashmiri village idiots. An mango Paki SSG personal would be a much taller 6 feet plus TFTA hunk.

Edit: They have been wearing such gear for some time. Ex: Feb 19 in Chrar-e-sharif, Aug 24 encounter in Kupwara , Nov 14 in Kulgam etc.

Source : u4uvoice.com/

Excellent picture...made my day !!

and don't worry SSG are not some special 60 feet ginats....I would not be surprised at all if these were SSG/BAT. Only regret is our causalities.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 30 Nov 2014 20:07

Raja Bose wrote:They look like Paki army/SSG personnel - that pic of the burnt pig needs to be publicized to all wannabe pigs waiting across the border to hammer the point home that if they do Jihad in India, they won't be getting any 72 (half burnt pigs are denied entry into jannat).

+1

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 30 Nov 2014 20:26

We are talking about terrorists as if the invaders deserve anything. A generous help from flamethrower tanks is a must to avoid one of rabid dogs, feigning death, waking up to bite someone even somewhat.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 30 Nov 2014 20:55

Xave : must be a small inbuilt camera.. this looks to be a very light, short range UAV....

member_28840 · Post by **member_28840** » 30 Nov 2014 21:20

A Sharma wrote:

joygoswami wrote:

manjgu wrote:Xave : must be a small inbuilt camera.. this looks to be a very light, short range UAV....

Cant really spot the camera.

Judging by the size and the RC controller in the first pic, it looks to have a very limited within line of sight range. I am looking forward to seeing the new micro and mini UAVs, that are being demoed lately, enter service.

member_28840 · Post by **member_28840** » 30 Nov 2014 21:34

I still think this latest group were SSG/BAT, that got caught on the wrong side, based on the gear.

The pic's of the attacks from earlier this year posted by joygoswami, just show bits of miss matched camo, magazine pouches and other assorted kit.

This latest group are all wearing matching steel toed combat boots, matching uniforms, padded load carrying bags, gloves. Not to mention they were armed with disposable anti tank weapons.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 30 Nov 2014 22:32

While this terrorist strike has met it's fate and we've paid the price in terms of civilian and military casualties, I think something big has been inadvertently averted.

Consider the following points:

1. Using IB to infiltrate terrorists is a high risk game on multiple fronts. One is geography and another is terrain and population on other side of the border.

2. Unlike Kashmir, there are no wide expanses of sparsely populated mountainous terrain or forested area - so, you cannot simply hide in an inaccessible or safe area away from eyes of security forces or even local population.

3. Secondly, the population is predominantly Hindu/Sikh and don't have truck with any of these terrorists for obvious reasons. Any support in terms of shelter or food is ruled out. Which puts a question mark on the longevity of the terrorists and has implication in terms of mission profile.

4. So, from Pakistan's perspective, pushing terrorists across IB makes sense only if they're looking for a trying to achieve a big bang event. Something like suicide attack in 2013 on Army Cavalry unit in Samba and police station in Hiranagar in Jammu.

5. To me, this looks like a planned high visibility hit meant to garner maximum eyeballs. Something to negate the high voter turnout and tell the world everything is NOT OK in paradise on Earth.

6. Just look at the data-points:

-They were in a hostile environment in terms of geography and population. So, couldn't have simply melt away into the proverbial bushes nor would've received any local support.
- They were heavily armed which surely indicates preparation for high value target and on one way ticket.
-The militants were supposed to be whisked away by a local contact, most probably to or closest to intended target.
- Any movement east from the area where confrontation happened, would've brought these militants deeper into hostile territory. And two important centers from here were Jammu and Samba (for army concentration).
- All this points to detailed planning towards a HIT to achieve maximum eyeballs. Pakistan intelligence agencies seemed to expanded quite a lot of effort for this ops.

Long story short, providence seems to have averted a still bigger tragedy. I think Jammu was the intended target.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 30 Nov 2014 23:08

We are simply taking too many casualties for deterring these jerks. Some way has to be found to hit these guys so hard they won't even think of doing such stuff. Mr Doval, please act fast.