China border watch

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

China border watch

Postby Johann » 16 Nov 2009 02:59

This is a follow up post to what I posted on the China military thread.

The idea is to post all news and discussion regarding the PLA and transport infrastructure in Chengdu Military Region as well as India's Eastern Command.

A secondary topic can be the PLA's Lanzhou Military Region and India's Northern Command which faces it.

Image

A few basic orbats for Chengdu MR;

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/organis ... -orbat.asp
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/airbase.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_Military_Region

Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: China border watch

Postby Johann » 16 Nov 2009 03:05

cross-posting;

Guppa
Post subject: China-India Border Clash in 1987
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2009 11:10 pm
BRFite -Trainee
Offline

Joined: 06 Nov 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 2
Does anyone have any info. from India's side on this incident?
http://bbs.creaders.net/military/bbsvie ... _id=419356


Top
Profile
Report this post Reply with quote
sevoke
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2009 03:55 am
BRFite -Trainee
Offline

Joined: 08 Jun 2008 04:00 am
Posts: 31
Translation of the url from chinese to english using Google:


China and India Sandor Valley Events
Sent by: three knives November 3, 2009 20:53:24 in [military world] to send a private message
Sandor Valley Events

Said this matter, pure Zhuantie:


In the Sino-Indian border dispute, there is one incident, although few people know, but it is a very important event, the incident almost led to the second Sino-Indian border war, which is in the Shannan area Sandor Valley events.

Incident was in May 1987 of the day, by the Tibet Military District deputy head of Shannan Military Sub-District Frontier Regiment led the organization in a routine border inspection activities triggered. According to the Central Military Commission and headquarters requirements, the Tibet Military District due to bad weather in winter, in December after a year from the arrival of winter between years in April, in order to seal off the snow period, During this period, the border passes and focus of the company in addition to goals, lots to keep monitoring and patrolling, in general, can not be zone-wide inspections. In order to maintain effective control of borders and security, after the lunar new year, by the border defense regiments, an infantry unit and organized into a number of mobile inspection of the detachment of the entire border line, pull the net and carried out the inspection and dispatched to prevent the Indian Army to use this season encroaching our territory. Shannan subdistricts by the deputy head of the regiment's Zhezhi mobile patrol unit led by an infantry company to strengthen a surveillance classes (cavalry), 82 mortar platoon (three guns), a 82 recoilless gun platoon ( 4 guns), a heavy machine gun platoon (three heavy machine guns) formed. As can be seen, this is a fighting stance in accordance with the composition, and may at any time to cope with unexpected situations and the combat patrol unit, all personnel and equipment aboard more than 10 vehicles to carry out its mandate. In addition to deputy head, the command group also includes an operations staff officer, a reconnaissance staff, communications staff and a deputy battalion commander infantry battalions.


When the patrol to Dassant Valley lots more, it was already dark, deputy head of the locally ordered the troops to camp in preparation for the next morning and then went to the southern end of the Sino-Indian border valley to pass inspection. Forces camp on the camp after the dinner break, but the 21 o'clock number, is responsible for camp security guard at night found that the border pass valley on the southern tip of flame and speaking voice, he immediately reported the deputy head. Deputy head of the once up and observe, to confirm that someone in the pass direction of activities, and to determine where the activities for the Indian army. As a result, immediately ordered a reconnaissance, deputy head of the General Staff with a reconnaissance group to pass reconnaissance. Two hours later, the scout reconnaissance staff with a return (the other is still in situ to monitor the Indian Army), reported to the deputy head may have a company of Indian Army has occupied the valley in the past although the two sides without the designation, but the mutual confidence in our one high ground, and has built a combat fortifications. From the detected situation, Indian arrival time is not too long, fortification is not complete, as if is stepping up efforts to build in the. From its state of alert, it seems that did not find our army patrols have already arrived.


Under this scenario, once deputy head of the command staff to open the radio communication contact with the military sub-command, reporting the situation, but because the camps have been completed when the radio communication, but after ten radio stations are not agreed upon contact with the partition of time , radio operator can not be reached with the military sub-district communications. The deputy head of the prompt decision, order, deputy battalion commander and operations staff develop their tactical plans, and ordered the troops to immediately up to combat readiness, the five o'clock dinner, 5:30 start at dawn in a state of war to the Indian Army's total area representations, the radio tomorrow morning at eight, will be the current situation with its own report on the determination and the deployment of military sub-district with the regiment.


Around six in the morning (the dawn of time in Tibet at this time about 7:00 or so), in addition to communications and logistics personnel, patrol the entire grouping of combatants fighting and attacks by deploying into the attack on the starting position. In the position, the deputy head of the unit commanders to the battle once again made clear the plans and combat deployment in the event of accident, the force will take the offensive or defensive depending on the circumstances. Then the fighting forces began to build fortifications. Reconnaissance from the then situation, the Indian army in the valley of the strength of our important high ground about one and a reinforced platoon, but 500 meters later, there is a row of troops, deputy head of the Indian forces to determine about a company, and equipped with 60 mortars and heavy machine guns and other heavy weapons, there may be more in-depth strength and large-caliber artillery support. The deployment from the Indian perspective, was originally prepared to control the high ground on our long-term presence, is indeed eating into my territory, promote the effective control area operations. TNI has been basically completed the combat readiness, according to the normal representations, it will not withdraw from our control area, and is likely to take the initiative to attack me.


Under this scenario, deputy head of the then drafted a telegram, the telegram will be carried out reconnaissance and detailed report once again, and asked for reinforcements immediately, deputy head of the Indian Army to determine this is eating into our territory by force of organized action, is estimated as in the past could not make it out through negotiation, the fighting is likely to explode, and could quickly escalate. We will be in line with the principle of non-fired the first shot efforts to force it to withdraw from negotiations through border areas controlled by our practice, but once the Indian initiative to use force, we will be proactive in ensuring the overall safety and the circumstances, resolutely fight back, and adhere to the reinforcements arrive.


At 8 o'clock or so, with a battalion commander, deputy head of the associate staff and 3 reconnaissance scouts, one newspaper and one translation, then go to Indian occupied our highland justified to intervene, pointing out that Indian Army has already seriously a violation of our territory, and now must immediately make way, otherwise all the consequences arising from the Indian side should be responsible. Reach the Indian Army positions in the deputy battalion commander, through a portable speaker shouted to the Indian Army, the TNI an officer with a few soldiers came down the ground, the Deputy Battalion Commander informed him of his duties and requirements, the Indian Army officers, said This is the territory of India, the Indian army does not retreat, and asked the soldiers to leave, or else all the serious consequences resulting therefrom should be borne by the Chinese side. In the conduct of patient negotiations, the Indian army has always been arrogance, as if the discovery of a small number of Chinese armed forces, the Indian soldiers pointed their weapons at China's representations began to threaten staff, while entrenched on high ground to fight the Indian army also began to activity. Indian officers and soldiers, and even these gestures and language stream staff to negotiate an insult to our military. See the negotiations without results, deputy head of the command staff officer, deputy battalion commander and reconnaissance withdrawn. However, in the process of retracement of our personnel, the Indian suddenly I representations officer shooting (according to the Indian side later explained that because the soldiers tensions caused by fire), on the spot and injuring my deputy battalion commander, the deputy battalion commander later died from blood loss too much expense.


In view of the first Indian to me fired, and wounded my representations to the commander, deputy head, I immediately ordered the troops to attack. At this point, I attacked the starting attack unit has been fully occupied position, and to take a roundabout surrounded by tactical maneuvering to the Indian Army launched an attack on the rear. In my mortars and recoilless rifles and other fire support, I just attacking unit for half an hour, both captured by the illegal occupation of our Indian Heights, Indian Army killed a total of 13 people, including officers, a person (Warrant Officer deputy platoon leader), eight enemy prisoner and the rest flee south, our army had not been pursued. Battle, our dead four people and injuring 11 others. To seize the illegal seizure of our Indian highlands, the deputy head of the defense immediately ordered the deployment of troops in preparation for the fight against the enemy's counterattack. Sure enough, around 2:00 p.m., in the TNI in the depth of the large-caliber artillery support, a reinforced company of the Indian Army is about to begin my defense forces launched an attack, but in our military firepower, the Indian attack soon Refund.


After dark, the Indian army continued to mortars and depth of my positions intermittent artillery fire attacks, deputy head of the Indian army may be judged dawn the next day will continue to attack, ordered the troops to increase repair fortifications, do a good job against the enemy large-scale offensive preparation. All our military combatant commanders, all-night build fortifications, leaving the use of Indian engineering equipment and materials, the rapid completion of defensive preparations and deployment, vigilant Indian attack. Meanwhile, the deputy head will have happened in Shannan promptly to the Mission and the Department of Military Sub-District has done a report, said it would stick to the last one.

Shannan receiving the deputy head of the military sub-report, immediately to the Tibet Military Region, Chengdu Military Region, reported on the current situation occurred, and immediately transferred to organize mobile forces to reinforce patrols. Immediately ordered the heads of the Tibet Military District 53 Mountain Infantry Brigade to urgent calls for reinforcements Sandor valley direction, while reporting the Chengdu Military Region and the War Department General Staff.


Third day of the dawn, the Indian Army turned to a reinforced battalion of troops in the artillery fire support, to my Border Patrol launched an offensive, the fighting continued into the afternoon, due to the tenacious fight our army, the Indian Army in dozens of casualties people, stop the attack. But the attendant was sent Indian fighters and helicopters on our side of the continuous surveillance, threats, and the steady increase in strength in depth, it seems ready for a bigger offensive.


But on the third night, I Shannan subdistricts an infantry battalion reinforcements arrived first and immediately entered the defense area, and strengthen defense forces. The fourth day, I have 53 mountain infantry brigade will begin to arrive, bringing large-caliber artillery pieces and rocket launchers, and further enhance our strength. Meanwhile, the Tibet Military Command quickly sent forces deep in the valley opened Santos advance command post, ready to organize forces to the Indian aggression fight back, will be completely expelled from our Indian territory.

As the growing strength of our military reinforcements, the Indian army may have to determine its full-scale attack was launched, so, also began to constantly mobilize manpower, the Indian Army Headquarters, Military Region to the east sent a war mobilization order began a large-scale to the conflict enhance the strength of the region. Two weeks after the conflict, the Indian army has been mobilized in this direction, a headquarters, two divisions and a total of about 7 brigades and a lot of artillery and tanks, deployed with the armed forces to conduct a large-scale war effort.


In view of the Indian Army responded quickly, troop movements quickly and easily, our judgments have the expansion and upgrading of Indian war, the possibility of war in response to Indian provocations, the General Staff Operations, 13,21,54 to the first Army issued a pre-orders, required to prepare three army troops to Tibet to participate in a pre-printed self-defense operations, to determine the first batch of 149 troops entered the war divisions, 37 divisions, 61 divisions and 160 divisions (ie, in the Sino-Indian border in 1962 to obtain counterattack walung victory of the 130 divisions), and requested the Chengdu Military Region forward command post set up in Tibet, organized fighting forces scheduled to go to the theater commander surveying roads and terrain. Conflict, two weeks later, I scheduled the fighting forces of the air above the division commander arrived in front, began to look at the terrain and road conditions, and carrying out their assigned head of the Chengdu Military Region, ordered the intended combat missions. June fighting forces, the commanders of the regiment and battalion levels to reach the front line, organizing a look at the terrain, carrying out their assigned tasks, of which 149 teachers and 37 divisions of the vanguard had reached the front line.


According to the Central Military Commission officer "to exercise restraint, and resolutely to counter" the operational guidelines and instructions, head of the Chengdu Military Region, the former refers to the determination is: 13 Army commanding 52 Mountain Infantry Brigade, 37 Division and the 160 division in the direction of Bapu Ka walung and combat ready fighter of the Indian Army located in the direction of the first two divisions, the former refers to the Tibet Military Region command 53 Brigade, 149 divisions and 21 divisions, so that cases in Germany to Lalu lot operations, ready to hit Indian fighter 4th Division, the camera resolution against Indian 17 division. Requiring the troops to battle in the assembly and preparation by the end of June, July started as a battle of the initial time, when the second batch of combat troops began to arrive after the attack. Indian campaign to wipe out the front two main divisions, to recover possession of the South will focus on two objectives of the land in dispute, in one fell swoop to solve the territorial boundaries of our claims.


India at that time to determine the direction of our army has been in Yunnan, the Vietnamese army with combat, it may be difficult at the same time respond to the direction of Tibet, it was nothing to fear and the threat of war against me. However, as army reinforcements quickly maneuver in place quickly and continuously transferred from the mainland before the crack of the main force, the Indian army began to feel the seriousness of the situation and demanded the Soviet Union for support. TNI was large-scale war may be imminent at any time, it may evolve into the second Sino-Indian border war. To this end, India launched a fierce internal debate, not only can win in this war? Due to internal disagreements, while the Soviet Union since Mikhail Gorbachev came to power, the Soviet Union faced serious political and economic difficulties, the Soviet Union when both said that India can not support the war and asked India to abandon its war plans, to conduct political negotiations with China, the peaceful settlement of border conflict. At the same time, the Soviet Union also sent a special envoy to China pledged to try to stop India's war effort. India is also within the intellectual faction prevailed, and so the Indian Army began to take the initiative to withdraw troops from the contact with the armed forces, and through diplomatic channels and I asked the peaceful settlement of the conflict.

In view of the position of India has started to retreat from the war, but also expressed do not want a war with China, the attitude and take the initiative in order to withdraw the troops Santos Valley had control of both the traditional areas, the Chinese Government has accepted the Indian idea of a peaceful settlement of the conflict, in August, the Central Military Commission lifted the mandate of the Force combat missions in Tibet mission, the former out to Tibet's forces and command structures gradually withdrawn in the Mainland. China to the Indian side handed over the bodies of prisoners of war and died.

This is a very regrettable campaign actions, the reason why the last to recover possession of the South have not been able to reach the most important reason, not because of India's back, and because our military operations in Yunnan, when the central government that can not be two direction at the same time fighting with the two countries, especially with a large country like India, once the war began, size, time and development is difficult to predict, so finally gave up the offensive, we are ready to the vast number of officers and men of war whom the distraught invariably sigh, if it was war, which India will not only lose my southern Tibet occupation of land will lose his self-confessed two flagship divisions - the 2nd and 4th divisions hit by the iron fist of our military, this war will be than the last time a war against greater losses because our military strength and firepower for this mobilization, far exceeding the combat force in 1962.

Strategic opportunities is such that once lost, it is difficult to ask to return, India should survive the combat and lessons of joy, and we will not compete for the actions of this regret. It is precisely because of this conflict alert, the new Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi came to power, they immediately put forward the policy of detente with China and both sides began negotiations on a political settlement of border issue.


Top
Profile
Report this post Reply with quote

Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: China border watch

Postby Johann » 16 Nov 2009 03:10

Another cross-post;

rohitvats
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009 04:58 pm
BRFite
Offline

Joined: 08 Sep 2005 12:54 pm
Posts: 338
Location: Bangalore
Ankit Desai wrote:
SanjibGhosh wrote:
Indian Army to deploy more troops along Arunachal border
http://www.hindustantimes.com/special-n ... 75434.aspx


Quote:
A second division will be deployed in Arunachal Pradesh in the next 12-18 months, the official added.


Are we getting another Division other than 56th in Arunachal Pradesh ?

Ankit


The one mentioned in my previous post (55th Mountain Division) is the second mountain division raised for North East.


Top
Profile
Report this post Reply with quote
rajrang
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2009 05:22 am
BRFite
Offline

Joined: 24 Jul 2006 02:38 am
Posts: 129
In 4 weeks it will be Dec 10. Why move 15,000 troops to the mountains after Dec 10, when the winter snows will set in and the likelyhood of a war will not be there for another 4 months? These troops should have been moved there last month, or better a few months back.


Top
Profile
Report this post Reply with quote
Rahul M
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2009 05:40 am
Forum Moderator
Offline

Joined: 17 Aug 2005 03:39 pm
Posts: 4734
Location: tending a plantation of gum trees.
those theaters aren't affected that much by winter. do check at what time the '62 war took place.


Top
Profile
Report this post Reply with quote
ss_roy
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2009 06:02 am
BRFite
Offline

Joined: 15 Nov 2008 04:18 pm
Posts: 264
China's biggest problem are socio-economic. I would not worry about them dominating the world with their current mindset.

I would however be concerned about them resorting to military adventures for insuring cohesiveness at home.


Top
Profile
Report this post Reply with quote
rohitvats
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2009 06:22 am
BRFite
Offline

Joined: 08 Sep 2005 12:54 pm
Posts: 338
Location: Bangalore
rajrang wrote:
In 4 weeks it will be Dec 10. Why move 15,000 troops to the mountains after Dec 10, when the winter snows will set in and the likelyhood of a war will not be there for another 4 months? These troops should have been moved there last month, or better a few months back.


It takes times to put together a formation as big as Division. Battalions and assets will have to be drawn from across the country and put together as a cohesive unit. They need to be provided with locations to base themselves. Hell lot of logitics involved. And please remember, all this can happen only whenthe permission to raise new formations has been received.


Top
Profile
Report this post Reply with quote
rajrang
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2009 01:41 pm
BRFite
Offline

Joined: 24 Jul 2006 02:38 am
Posts: 129
Rahul M wrote:
those theaters aren't affected that much by winter. do check at what time the '62 war took place.



Roughly October 20 - November 20


Top
Profile
Report this post Reply with quote
rajrang
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2009 01:53 pm
BRFite
Offline

Joined: 24 Jul 2006 02:38 am
Posts: 129
rohitvats wrote:
Location is Jukhama for 56th
The other division is the 55th and is based in Shillong.


If 56th is based in Nagaland and 55th in Meghalaya, then will troops from those divisions be based in AP or will they be rushed to AP in event of an emergency? These locations seem far away from the PRC border, especially given the infrastructure.

rohitvats
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2009 07:32 pm
BRFite
Offline

Joined: 08 Sep 2005 12:54 pm
Posts: 338
Location: Bangalore
rajrang wrote:
rohitvats wrote:
Location is Jukhama for 56th
The other division is the 55th and is based in Shillong.


If 56th is based in Nagaland and 55th in Meghalaya, then will troops from those divisions be based in AP or will they be rushed to AP in event of an emergency? These locations seem far away from the PRC border, especially given the infrastructure.


Well, you see, the troops (apart from some) are not always sitting on the border. They move from their peace time locations to forward areas as the situation hots up. This is what they mean by mobilization. As it is, we maintain formations close to the LAC to prevent any hanky-panky by our peaceful neighbors.


Top
Profile
Report this post Reply with quote

Jagan
Webmaster BR
Posts: 3032
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Earth @ Google.com
Contact:

Re: China border watch

Postby Jagan » 16 Nov 2009 04:01

http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2009/11/a ... china.html

The second division is being reported as 71 Div - what gives?

rahulm
BRFite
Posts: 1136
Joined: 19 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: China border watch

Postby rahulm » 16 Nov 2009 07:52

Fauj who take VRS, when being released are being told they are on reserve duty for the Eastern front. There is something major cooking on the Chinese front.

There is serious concern about China. Time frames being quoted are within the next decade.

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7732
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: China border watch

Postby rohitvats » 16 Nov 2009 10:01

Jagan wrote:http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2009/11/armys-first-mountain-division-for-china.html

The second division is being reported as 71 Div - what gives?


There are lots of numbers being bandied about in various reports. The 2 new divisions in Nort East are 55th and 56th. That is for sure.

For the sake of the thread, I'm reposting the Orbat of IA in North East -

XXXIII Corps - HQ Siliguri - 17th/20th/27th Mountain Divisions
IV Corps - HQ Tejpur - 5th/21st/55th Mountain Division
III Corps - HQ Dimapur - 2nd/56th/57th Mountain Divisions

23rd Division - Ranchi - Will be readily available for NE in case of situation hoting up.

santoshriyer
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 62
Joined: 26 Oct 2009 16:06

Re: China border watch

Postby santoshriyer » 16 Nov 2009 10:10

rahulm wrote:Fauj who take VRS, when being released are being told they are on reserve duty for the Eastern front. There is something major cooking on the Chinese front.

There is serious concern about China. Time frames being quoted are within the next decade.


From where did u get this detail?

RayC
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4333
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 12:31

Re: China border watch

Postby RayC » 16 Nov 2009 12:08

Anyone who retires is on reserve list.

There is no specific areas assigned.

This is the first time I am hearing of area specific reserve list.

Interesting!

rahulm
BRFite
Posts: 1136
Joined: 19 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: China border watch

Postby rahulm » 17 Nov 2009 19:31

Maybe the reserve list is the way I interpreted it and there is nothing to it as RayC has stated.

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3444
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: China border watch

Postby Aditya G » 17 Nov 2009 23:13

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2009/11/ ... ge-to.html

...

Ever since India’s abandonment of this area in 1962, Tawang’s opinion-makers have doubted India’s staying power in the face of serious Chinese pressure. And New Delhi has not done itself any favours with its disregard for its image on its vulnerable frontiers.

“Take a look at the army’s temporary barracks”, says Karma Wangchu, a former IB operative and then MLA, pointing to the flimsy tin sheds in which soldiers live. “The government seems ready to pack up and leave Tawang again. If they plan to say, why do they not have permanent buildings?”

Visible from many places on the Indian side of the border are China’s well-built concrete barracks, with roads connecting many of their border outposts. The Indian Army’s ramshackle infrastructure makes a deeply unfavourable contrast.

“Why does India not come out strongly and say that Tawang will never be given to China?” asks Lhakpa Tsering, a road-building contractor who has travelled widely across India. “The Dalai Lama’s visit shows that India is learning how to defy China, but people in Tawang need to be reassured. They feel that New Delhi will barter them away in a border settlement.”

n Buddhist-predominant Tawang, where the Dalai Lama is a living God, China remains the Bad Guy, a country that persecuted the holiest of all Lamas. In that respect, Tibet’s Buddhist identity builds common cause with India. Politically, though, New Delhi and Lhasa never reached a settlement on Tawang. From 1947 until 1949, when Communist Chinese forces overran Tibet, Lhasa refused to acknowledge that Tawang was a part of India. Tibet’s historical control over Tawang underpins China’s claim today.

The Dalai Lama, himself, had long maintained a careful ambiguity about Tawang, rejecting Chinese claims over it, but never openly rejecting Tibet’s. :roll:

shynee
BRFite
Posts: 550
Joined: 21 Oct 2003 11:31
Location: US

Re: China border watch

Postby shynee » 30 Nov 2009 05:45


Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11209
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: China border watch

Postby Gagan » 30 Nov 2009 07:29

Google earth pictures with Chinese and Burmese airports / airforce bases.

There has been a spurt of airports of ~ 2 - 2.5 miles length being built in north Burma over the recent years. For a country as poor as Burma several airports being built simultaneously is very suspicious. It has been suggested that North Burma is virtually chinese territory these days.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7732
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: China border watch

Postby rohitvats » 30 Nov 2009 10:59



Pretty strange...PLA says stop and we do :eek: ....and this when they themselves have built roads parallel to LAC? :evil:

Nihat
BRFite
Posts: 1260
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 13:35

Re: China border watch

Postby Nihat » 30 Nov 2009 12:43

If the Chinese can just hop over from the other side , then we should make sure that the remaining 4 Km are built under the presence of Indian Army in good numbers. This should dissuade the chinks from just hopping over the LAC whenever they feel like.

Shubham
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 95
Joined: 04 Feb 2009 01:06
Location: Hyderabad

Re: China border watch

Postby Shubham » 30 Nov 2009 14:04

if PLA already has a post with nearby road connectivity ,how come there was no IA to see that no one came inside our territory anything whatsoever.

Venu
BRFite
Posts: 161
Joined: 26 Oct 2009 17:23
Location: rimbola..rimbola

Re: China border watch

Postby Venu » 30 Nov 2009 14:16



I don't understand why chinese always thinks ladakh as thier own Zageer!!

Arun KS
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 8
Joined: 16 Nov 2009 16:24

Re: China border watch

Postby Arun KS » 30 Nov 2009 15:49

This is ridiculous why should we stop building?

ASPuar
BRFite
Posts: 1538
Joined: 07 Feb 2001 12:31
Location: Republic of India

Re: China border watch

Postby ASPuar » 30 Nov 2009 16:55

Oh hey thats cool, Omar Abdullah. Youre absolutely right- the Indian army should leave Jammu and Kashmir. No hostile states nearby. No sirree!

sumshyam
BRFite
Posts: 552
Joined: 23 Sep 2009 19:30
Location: Ganga ki dharti.
Contact:

Re: China border watch

Postby sumshyam » 30 Nov 2009 17:19



I really didn't understood....It is like a defeat...or some kinda fear....I hope the work will be restarted and people will get their source of earning back...!

sumshyam
BRFite
Posts: 552
Joined: 23 Sep 2009 19:30
Location: Ganga ki dharti.
Contact:

Re: China border watch

Postby sumshyam » 30 Nov 2009 17:23

I was surfing the net...days before...and I had found this...this is a real paranoia...and if I am not wrong...the colonial era is not dead...yet...!!!

territories occupied by china

Akshut
BRFite
Posts: 353
Joined: 25 Dec 2008 15:06

Re: China border watch

Postby Akshut » 30 Nov 2009 17:32

Image

Demchok is on lower right corner. Looks like it falls into Chinese administered area, or the area where there is no demarcation and a lot of confusion persists.


anirban_aim
BRFite
Posts: 233
Joined: 25 Jul 2009 21:28

Re: China border watch

Postby anirban_aim » 30 Nov 2009 22:17

Hope the Jingos have not missed this:

http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/india_caved_to_chinas_objections_on_key_road.php

The work on a link-road in Demchok in South-eastern Ladakh region has been stopped after objections were raised by the Chinese Army, barely months after repeated incursions by it in that area.


The incident took place at the village of Demchok on the Indian side of Line of Actual control, about 300-kms Southeast of Leh district headquarters, official sources said.

Work on the road, which was to connect two villages - the last inhabitated areas on the Line of Actual Control (LAC) on Sino-Indian border in Demchok - was stopped during the last week of October, they said.



After construction of nearly 3.8 km of road, the Chinese Army sought a flag meeting with Indian Army and raised strong objections over the construction as they consider the area as disputed,

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11209
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: China border watch

Postby Gagan » 01 Dec 2009 09:49

wrt the Demchok sector, half of that area shown as disputed in south J&K is in the Indian Army's hands. In fact, the chinese are somehow holding on to that area across ridge lines. They are building a highway into that area from the Jara La pass there, that will supply their troops, well within the Indian claim line.

As expected this is like a two lane pucca highway, while the Indian side has just mud tracks to call roads.

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3444
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: China border watch

Postby Aditya G » 01 Dec 2009 22:14

more chalta hai

http://www.ptinews.com/news/401748_Chin ... d-to-worry

China building airstrips, Govt says no need to worry

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Advertisement
Share Print E-mail Comment[ - ] Text [ + ]STAFF WRITER 12:17 HRS IST
New Delhi, Dec 1 (PTI) With reports suggesting that China was building over two dozen new airstrips along the Line of Actual Control (LAC), Government today said there was no need to be "unnecessarily" worried as India was adequately strengthening itself.

"I don't think we need to be unnecessarily alarmed. As a regional power, they (China) will strengthen their infrastructure.They will procure their arms and we are doing what we have to do for strengthening our line," Minister of State for Defence M M Pallam Raju told reporters.

The Minister was asked to respond on reports claiming that China was building 27 airstrips along the LAC.

There is no need to be "unnecessarily worried" about what other countries are doing, Raju said, adding "as far our programmes are going smoothly and we are doing adequately to strengthen ourselves.

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3444
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: China border watch

Postby Aditya G » 01 Dec 2009 22:18

Full marks to Arunachal CM for giving a clear and consistent message:

http://www.zeenews.com/printstory.aspx?id=583765

'No stoppage of work in Arunachal even if China objects'
Tuesday, December 01, 2009, 22:26 IST

New Delhi: Even as work on border road construction in Jammu and Kashmir was stopped after Chinese objection, Arunachal Chief Minister Doorjee Khandu today asserted that his government will not succumb to any such pressure.

Khandu said China has no right not object to infrastructure development in Arunachal Pradesh as the state is an "integral part of India".


"The development work would not be stopped just because somebody says that this land belongs to him," he told reporters here when asked whether his government would stop work on any infrastructure project if China objects.

"Arunachal Pradesh is integral part of India. China cannot object to any development of infrastructure on our land. We are not bothered about their claims," Khandu added.


The work on a link-road in Demchok in South-eastern Ladakh region has been stopped after objections were raised by the Chinese Army.

The incident took place at the village of Demchok on the Indian side of Line of Actual control, about 300-kms south-east of Leh district headquarters.

The Central government has given a Rs 24,000-crore package for development of various infrastructure like airports and roads to Arunachal Pradesh.

PTI

Jamal K. Malik
BRFite
Posts: 638
Joined: 27 Mar 2009 23:03

Re: China border watch

Postby Jamal K. Malik » 02 Dec 2009 00:20

India will find facts in China''s objections to road construction in Ladakh
In a confrontational act on Monday, China had objected to road construction in Demchok near the Line of Actual Control in the Ladakh region of Kashmir.


Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11209
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: China border watch

Postby Gagan » 03 Dec 2009 04:27

While china objects to India building a road in the Demchok sector, China itself is building an all weather 4 lane road there. The road India was building was a laughable 2 way road.

Image

The yellow line is the chinese road project.
Image

Image

Chinese positions have been limited to the east of the river marked with white arrows. (Indus).
Image

The road is intended to bolster chinese troop positions across the Jara la pass, the chinese also have a big bazaar to sell livestock to Indian Ladakhis there.

No one in the Indian media has picked up this yet, so this is a BRF Breaking News.

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3444
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: China border watch

Postby Aditya G » 03 Dec 2009 08:51

Excellent finding Gagan; one question though; If the the Indian Army post is situated on the bank of Indus river, then why is the LAC marked further west? Also note that the road shown in the second picture is wider than the Indus itself :roll:

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11209
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: China border watch

Postby Gagan » 04 Jan 2010 22:59

This is what I find mystifying too. From what one can see on google earth, the helipads and structures, the roads are distinctly indian, and they cover half of the south Kashmir disputed area. So why is the LAC further west? I can also see and entire line of outposts that cuts across the middle of that area.

Has India taken over that area subsequent to 1962? Say in the 87-89 skirmishes? The chinese are at a disadvantage across the Indus.

Similarly there are several places I can see where Inidian forces are at serious geographical disadvantage, if they go out to take the areas that India claims.

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3444
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: China border watch

Postby Aditya G » 05 Jan 2010 00:26

The only explanation is that the Army is holding territory beyond the 1962 status LAC -> which could explain why India "meekly" submitted to Chinese demand to stop road construction - as previously we have insisted that the sanctity of LoC and LAC be maintained.

Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7093
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: China border watch

Postby Muppalla » 09 Jan 2010 05:28

Though not yet convincing, this is extremely interesting deduction and observation. Gagan, Keep up the good work.

Klaus
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2168
Joined: 13 Dec 2009 12:28
Location: Cicero Avenue

Re: China border watch

Postby Klaus » 11 Jan 2010 16:10

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/46170/china-grabs-indias-land.html#top

"Better to do in inches than in yards" is the Chinese philosophy which they seem to be implementing with great elan. :shock:
How are we going to return the favor? :-? :x :evil:



VijayKumarSinha
BRFite
Posts: 185
Joined: 16 Aug 2009 21:22

Re: China border watch

Postby VijayKumarSinha » 23 Jan 2010 04:23

Our army way behind China’s: Indian general

China has built all-weather metalled roads leading right up to its border posts facing Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh and Demchok and Fukche in Ladakh. It can, thus, move troops and material very easily to the border.

Indian troops, on the other hand, often have to march miles to the front. Roads, where they exist, are dotted with potholes, with long stretches of boulders and slush, leading to accidents that slow down movement.

Better connectivity allows the Chinese to cover 400 km a day. The Indian army finds it difficult to cover more than 200 km a day in the forward areas.

The Indian armed forces have activated three airfields at Daulat Beg Oldi, Fukche and Nyoma, about 220-250 km east of Leh since May 31, 2008. But only AN 32 transport planes can land there. “They have little operational value,” another senior army officer said.

The only airfield near the China border from where India can deploy warplanes is at Tezpur in Assam, where it has stationed its frontline Sukhoi 30 planes.

Chinese military aircraft, however, can reach Shimla, Chandigarh and Leh within five minutes and New Delhi within 20 minutes of taking off from their forward base in Gar Gunsa, across the border, from Demchok in Tibet.

It has five such airfields in Tibet where it has stationed warplanes.

After the 1962 India-China war, India pursued a policy not to develop infrastructure, especially roads, near the Line of Actual Control.

Reason: in the event of Chinese troops breaking through Indian defences, they would be greeted by hostile roads and infrastructure.

This strategy was reversed in 2005.

Accordingly, the government of India woke up to the need to build infrastructure along the 4,057-km LAC from Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir (north) to Himachal Pradesh (west), Uttarakhand (middle region) and Arunachal Pradesh and Sikkim (east) sectors of the border with China.

Twenty-seven projects for construction of roads were sanctioned, but only six of them have been commissioned.
Each kilometer of road in the mountainous areas along the Line of Actual Control costs Rs 15 crore.


sourab_c
BRFite
Posts: 187
Joined: 14 Feb 2009 18:07
Location: around

Re: China border watch

Postby sourab_c » 23 Jan 2010 08:54



This is highly unprofessional behaviour by the Indian Army. Such continuous bashing of our own armed forces in the media can have drastic affects on our soldiers. When the need to fight actually arises, the soldiers would go into war knowing that they are at a disadvantage.

aditp
BRFite
Posts: 445
Joined: 15 Jul 2008 07:25
Location: Autoland

Re: China border watch

Postby aditp » 23 Jan 2010 09:33

This is not bashing of the IA. it is a bashing of the political class and the bureaucracy. Policy making is their domain. The IA general is only making a realistic assessment of the situation. It is only regrettable that he is voicing it in public. But even this is happening because the politicos hear something only if the votebank cries foul. Otherwise their deaf/blind and dumbness in matters defence are legendary

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11209
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: China border watch

Postby Gagan » 25 Jan 2010 05:04

The airbase being talked about is the Kunshajiang airbase (also known as Gar Gunsa). This has a 5 Km runway and is located 75 Km from Demchock. This place is 150 kms from the J&K-Himachal-Tibet Trijunction where the chinese helicopters recently intruded. This is 125 Kms from the Uttranchal border.
Image

Image
This satellite picture is dated Oct 31, 2007 shows the runway in an advanced stage of construction.

ManuT
BRFite
Posts: 595
Joined: 22 Apr 2005 23:50

Re: China border watch

Postby ManuT » 25 Jan 2010 08:31

China carves new mountain pass in Nepal : BBC


Engineers from China have begun creating a road through previously inaccessible mountains to try and connect Nepal to Tibet, and China beyond.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8477356.stm


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: anupamd, Dumal, Kakarat, L Ram, ryogi, ssaravanan, TKiran and 94 guests