Indian Naval Discussion

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dinesha
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Indian Naval Discussion

Postby dinesha » 03 Sep 2010 12:18

Everyone is here forgetting that project 75I is the VERY beginning of journey for the Indian sub-building future. Project 75 and 75I will be basic model upon which the mixed “indigenous Design” is going to be based. L&T getting to build even two of these 75I subs will entail them with certainty at least 4 of the 12 indigenous design subs by 2020. This will surely entrench them deep into sub-building business and L&T unlike other govt. run inefficient PSU will take advantage of opportunity and emerge as one of the major sub-builders of the country.
With L&T at lest the projects can be expected to of quality executed efficently within time and budget.

AdityaM
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby AdityaM » 03 Sep 2010 12:26

Link to previous thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5057&start=3960

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SNaik » 03 Sep 2010 16:16

dinesha wrote:Everyone is here forgetting that project 75I is the VERY beginning of journey for the Indian sub-building future. Project 75 and 75I will be basic model upon which the mixed “indigenous Design” is going to be based. ....


This is absolutely not true. The VERY beginning of Indian sub building is Arihant which was designed and constructed way before. It may not be the most "indigenious" design (really no need inventing the wheel Indian way if in this case Russians have done it already), but it is sound to assume that it gave enough of the basics of sub design and construction. It is the problem of Mazagon that they didn't get a part in it therefore Pr.75 is their "basics". This means that two principal sub builders in India have the combined knowledge of Russian and French design philosophy and there's no reason why Pr.75I couldn't be as indigenious as required.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 03 Sep 2010 16:17

^^^^ dinesha is right.

Austin
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 03 Sep 2010 16:29

Do old timer remember Badar and Nandai ? We used to have interesting in Naval Thread back then with Philip, John,JC and every one.

Do they still follow BRF ?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 03 Sep 2010 16:33

Guys,

C/T Alert

A part of me believes and is convinced that the price escalations and delays in the Scorpean project are just a cover for the costs of the ATV project. Also I will continue to believe so untill the CAG actully publishes the report of the ATV project.

C/T Alert off.

Gagan,

I remember Nandi, the guy who claimed to be Sweed. But dont rememer Badar, I also miss the contribution of Micheal Baxtor and the DANK team, whatever happend to them?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ShivaS » 03 Sep 2010 20:09

There used to be Salman also and Imtiaz Ahmed who was more into economics and accounting IIRC Alum of IIT (M) and IIM(A)

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 04 Sep 2010 01:26

Austin wrote:Do old timer remember Badar and Nandai ? We used to have interesting in Naval Thread back then with Philip, John,JC and every one.

Do they still follow BRF ?

Hey Austin,
I have been following from time to time but have not been active in any of def forums in past few years. My take on this P-75/P-75I debacle is personally i was against procurement of Scorpene. Felt it was too expensive (even the 600 mill/sub price tag in 07).

Also i question the effectiveness of SSKs (bang for buck) in a conflict: speed, range and payload are still limited and while price tags for SSKs has shot up to SSN levels their drawbacks have not been addressed (even with AIP) There are other areas IN should focus its $$ on like address its lack of LHDs (for disaster relief) and finding suitable replacement for the SeaKings.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Badar » 04 Sep 2010 04:08

Austin wrote:Do old timer remember Badar and Nandai ? We used to have interesting in Naval Thread back then with Philip, John,JC and every one.

Do they still follow BRF ?


Hi Austin,

Speak of the devil :) - Like John, I pop in occasionally from time to time - haven't posted in ages.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Anoop. A. » 04 Sep 2010 05:59

Good to see the veterans posting on BRF again............Waiting for John's & Badar's detailed views on P 75I, Arihant and Indegenous SSK. :D

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 04 Sep 2010 06:23

ho ! you are still around ! I used to be a lurker in the timeframe you used to post !

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 04 Sep 2010 14:35

[googlevideo][/googlevideo]Here's a link to some very interesting pics of the RN's latest Astute attack SSN.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11172014

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 04 Sep 2010 16:06

Welcome back ,Happy to see ya old fellas , guess we lost one Nandai.

Philip that Astute short video is quite nice , I wish when Chakra and Arihant gets commissioned it would be good to see the CO speak from the ops room will inspire lot of young folks.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 04 Sep 2010 19:44


Philip
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 06 Sep 2010 13:15

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article615818.ece
Excerpts from Dr.Bannerjee's intervieww with the Hindu on India's N-policy,with some answrs about the ATVs reactors,etc.


The Hindu SRIKUMAR BANERJEE: 'We want to make a victim-friendly legislation and make the operator liable.'

Interview with Dr. Srikumar Banerjee, Chairman, Atomic Energy Commission.

While the Lok Sabha passed the Civil Liability for Nuclear Damage Bill, 2010, on August 25, the Rajya Sabha passed it five days later. In this context, Srikumar Banerjee, Chairman, Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) and Secretary, Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), spoke to T.S. Subramanian on September 2 in Chennai. Dr. Banerjee answered questions about the Bill, India's nuclear-powered submarine programme, the uranium enrichment capability and so on. Excerpts.

It is a year since India's nuclear-powered submarine, Arihant, was launched. Has the Light Water Reactor (LWR), using enriched uranium as fuel, on board the submarine been started up?

Our nuclear steam supply system is ready 100 per cent. From our (DAE) side, everything is ready. We are only waiting for other systems to become operational so that we can start the commissioning activity of the reactor. I really do not know when the harbour trials will be done.

The Navy will need three or four nuclear-powered submarines for this arm to be a viable force. Will you build more LWRs for these submarines?

We are already doing that. I will not be able to tell you the number, but it is a fact that we are in that game. The next nuclear steam generating plants are getting ready for future applications.

Where will the enriched uranium for these boats come from? There is only one Rare Materials Plant at Ratnahalli, near Mysore, to produce enriched uranium. Will the proposed Special Material Enrichment Facility in Chitradurga district in Karnataka be helpful?

Chitradurga will come a little later, not immediately. Our Ratnahalli plant capacity has been enhanced. But more than that, there is significant improvement in our technology. Usually, a term called Separating Work Units (SWUs) defines the technology level that we have achieved in this, and I can assure you that there has been considerable improvement in SWUs of our next generation caskets of centrifuges. The separating capacity of our centrifuges has improved. So total capacity enhancement at Ratnahalli has been done. We are confident of supplying the entire fuel for the set of….

You cannot say anymore that India does not have enrichment technology. India has its own technology and we can produce [enriched uranium]. We have not started doing it for large-scale commercial nuclear power stations, which require a much larger quantity of enriched uranium. We will be able to do that once we go to Chitradurga.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby JTull » 06 Sep 2010 14:32

It is a year since India's nuclear-powered submarine, Arihant, was launched. Has the Light Water Reactor (LWR), using enriched uranium as fuel, on board the submarine been started up?

Our nuclear steam supply system is ready 100 per cent. From our (DAE) side, everything is ready. We are only waiting for other systems to become operational so that we can start the commissioning activity of the reactor. I really do not know when the harbour trials will be done.

The Navy will need three or four nuclear-powered submarines for this arm to be a viable force. Will you build more LWRs for these submarines?

We are already doing that. I will not be able to tell you the number, but it is a fact that we are in that game. The next nuclear steam generating plants are getting ready for future applications.

So, as of 6th Sep 2010, the ATV reactor has not been started!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 06 Sep 2010 14:58

self deleted.
Last edited by chackojoseph on 06 Sep 2010 16:45, edited 1 time in total.

Austin
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 06 Sep 2010 15:46

I guess if the harbor trials have not started and commisioning of reactor has not taken place , then we are still a long way in commissioning the ATV.

They are probably checking the system on auxilary power either by external source or some internal diesel/battery source

My thinking is they are currently doing trials on ATV and its subsystem in a dry dock using some kind of internal or external power source.

They can only start the initial harbor trials and then deep sea trials when the reactor is up and running and then she can self propel on her own power for these trials.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby nits » 06 Sep 2010 17:27

Commercial tenders for 16 Navy multi-role choppers expire

Two years after Navy issued tenders for purchase of 16 multi-role helicopters worth USD one billion, a deal is not in the pipeline since bids from two competing global manufacturers have expired. Defence Ministry sources told PTI today that the commercial bids from American Sikorsky and British-Italian AgustaWestland expired last month and the Ministry was considering asking them to revalidate their existing offers or revise their prices


And what was MOD doing for 2 Years... :?:

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby nits » 06 Sep 2010 17:28

Battle Rages in India over New Warship Construction

An increasingly three-way bitter battle is raging in the Indian Navy between supporters of aircraft carrier construction and those who favor submarine building. The latter group is further split between those submariners who wish to concentrate on nuclear submarine construction and those who wish to see additional production of diesel-electric submarines.

It is this three-way fight that has seriously delayed the second phase of India’s Project 75 diesel-electric submarine program.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 06 Sep 2010 19:00

Scandalous how for just 1k Rs. you can get into the Naval base at Bombay!

Top cop's office clerk held in fake naval pass case
S Ahmed Ali, TNN, Sep 6, 2010,
MUMBAI: The name of a senior clerk from the police commissionerate has cropped up in the case of a man who was caught trying to enter the Naval Dockyard area in Colaba. The clerk was arrested by the Colaba police. The police commissionerate has made a note of this and initiated an inquiry into it.

Pravin Rane, attached to the commissionerate's office, was arrested by the Colaba police after his name cropped up in the investigation into a case of issuing a fake entry pass to Colaba resident Ramesh Morsa in August. When the police started its probe and summoned Rane, they were surprised to find out that he was already in the custody of the Santa Cruz airport police.

According to the police, on May 12, Borsa-who was unemployed-tried to enter Dockyard from Lion Gate, flashing an entry pass issued by the police. Anyone entering this restricted area has to either get a pass from the navy or from the police under whose jurisdiction the area falls. "When a naval officer checked the pass, he became suspicious and detained Morsa. During interrogation, Morsa revealed that the pass was issued to him by one Bhaskar Nayak for Rs 1,000,'' said an officer.

The police made Morsa call Nayak to Azad Maidan for another pass. Nayak was caught on August 18. Nayak revealed that the pass was issued by Rane after he forged the signature of a DCP who was transferred two years ago. Rane was arrested in a similar offence registered with the airport police

Read more: Top cop's office clerk held in fake naval pass case - Mumbai - City - The Times of India

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... z4xDTeQClC

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SriSri » 06 Sep 2010 19:38

India Building Nuclear Steam Reactors for Submarines

Work is in progress on India's nuclear steam reactors for its first nuclear powered submarine, Srikumar Banerjee, head of the country's Atomic Energy Commission, said.

Last year, India floated out its nuclear-powered submarine, the Arihant, to be powered by a light water reactor (LWR) using enriched uranium as fuel.

In an interview with "The Hindu" published on Monday, Banerjee said the "nuclear steam supply system" was 100% ready.

"We are only waiting for other systems to become operational so that we can start the commissioning activity of the reactor. I really do not know when the harbor trials will be done."

The Indian Navy needs three or four nuclear-powered submarines to be a viable force.

Enriched uranium for these submarines will come from the Rare Materials Plant at Ratnahalli, near Mysore, Banerjee said.

http://www.india-defence.com/reports-4494

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sum » 06 Sep 2010 21:25

Indian Navy foils hijack attempt

Somali and Yemeni pirates' attempt to hijack for ransom Indian cargo vessels sailing off the Somalia coast has once again been thwarted by an Indian warship.

INS Delhi, a guided missile destroyer, was assisting the merchant ships that were sailing through the Gulf of Aden when the armed sea brigands made the attempt on one of the 12 ships in the formation on Sunday, a Navy spokesperson said in New Delhi on Monday.

The pirates' boat was intercepted by the Indian warship, which deployed a helicopter with marine commandos, who seized a cache of weapons and offloaded the fuel and left their boat adrift, the spokesperson said.


Few pics of the MARCOS from the article:
Image

Image

No more scooter helmets for MARCOS onlee!!! :mrgreen: :((

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 06 Sep 2010 21:31

per a tv report the dhow was set on fire, photo of a huge plume of burning fuel from the drums with the ins delhi nearby was shown.
the pirate dhow was named farida or something...

pirates were put in jail onboard delhi and will likely be offloaded and sent home since nobody is prosecuting the captured pirates at
this point.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby BhairavP » 07 Sep 2010 14:09

Singha wrote:per a tv report the dhow was set on fire, photo of a huge plume of burning fuel from the drums with the ins delhi nearby was shown.
the pirate dhow was named farida or something...

pirates were put in jail onboard delhi and will likely be offloaded and sent home since nobody is prosecuting the captured pirates at
this point.


They should have done what the Russians did.. let them go without food and water.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sum » 07 Sep 2010 14:26

BhairavP wrote:
Singha wrote:per a tv report the dhow was set on fire, photo of a huge plume of burning fuel from the drums with the ins delhi nearby was shown.
the pirate dhow was named farida or something...

pirates were put in jail onboard delhi and will likely be offloaded and sent home since nobody is prosecuting the captured pirates at
this point.


They should have done what the Russians did.. let them go without food and water.

The rediff article quoted actually states the IN doing the same as what you mention!!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Bolasani » 07 Sep 2010 14:38

Image

A couple more pictures at this blog post. Clicky

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 08 Sep 2010 07:25


SriSri
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SriSri » 08 Sep 2010 07:33

India to Purchase Six New Generation Submarines with Land Attack Capabilities

With its effective submarine strength coming down drastically to 14, the Indian Navy has started the process to procure six new next generation submarines that will be equipped with Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) to give them longer endurance.

The order is expected to be worth over Rs 30,000 crore at current rates. The Navy on Tuesday sent out Request for Information (RFI) to major submarine manufacturers across the world for six conventional submarines that would be built at Indian and foreign shipyards.

Times of India estimated the deal to be worth Rupees 50,000 crore.

http://www.india-defence.com/reports/4499

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SriSri » 08 Sep 2010 07:33

India to Select Foreign / Private Shipyard Collaborator for Project 75I

Under the Project 75I plans approved by the DAC, three of the submarines would be built by Mazagon Docks, while one would be built by Hindustan Shipyard.

The remaining two submarines would be either built at the foreign collaborator shipyard or at a private Indian shipyard that the Defence Ministry would identify in the future.

The Indian private shipyard would have to enter into an agreement with the foreign collaborator for technology transfer and assistance in building the two submarines under the project.

http://www.india-defence.com/reports-4498

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 08 Sep 2010 07:55

so it looks like the additional fuel drums were thrown out and set on fire, leaving the creeps with just about enough to reach near
shore and row home the final leg.

in the annals of low-footprint SF lore the somali pirates deserve a chapter though...sailing 700km out in these "skiffs" to snag large targets...takes serious balls to do that.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby dinesha » 08 Sep 2010 08:18


50,000cr deal for 6 subs: Govt invites bids from firms

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 516140.cms
NEW DELHI: The ball has formally been set rolling for what will be India's biggest-ever defence project till now: the acquisition of six new-generation stealth submarines, with land-attack capabilities, for over Rs 50,000 crore.

The government has now issued a global request for information (RFI) to armament majors to submit their initial offers by the end of this month for the six submarines to be constructed under 'Project-75 India'. This comes after the Defence Acquisitions Council (DAC), chaired by defence minister A K Antony, cleared P-75I in June, as was first reported by TOI. The gigantic naval project will clearly overtake the Rs 42,000 crore project to procure 126 multi-role fighters for IAF, so far dubbed the "mother of all defence deals", which is in the final selection phase now.

Under P-75I, while two submarines will be imported from the foreign collaborator's shipyard, the other four will be built indigenously under transfer of technology. Three of these will be constructed at Mazagon Docks (MDL) in Mumbai, and the fourth at Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL) in Visakhapatnam.

MDL is already engaged in building six French Scorpene submarines under Project-75, currently valued at Rs 23,562 crore, which incidentally is running three years behind the 2012-2017 schedule set for it earlier. "Giving one submarine to HSL under P-75I is clearly aimed at establishing a robust second submarine line there, in addition to MDL, for future projects like P-76," said a senior official.

Interestingly, the RFI says the foreign collaborator has to specify the air-independent propulsion (AIP) being offered for the project. Conventional diesel-electric submarines have to surface every few days to get oxygen to recharge their batteries. But with AIP systems, they can stay submerged for much longer periods, narrowing the gap with nuclear-powered submarines which can operate underwater for virtually unlimited periods.


so L&T left in limbo.. :(

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Carl_T » 08 Sep 2010 09:31

What rifles are the Marcos using? They don't look like Tavors or Insas.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 08 Sep 2010 09:58

H&K mp3/5 looks like.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Raja Bose » 08 Sep 2010 11:42

^^And AK with black furniture.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby arun » 08 Sep 2010 11:57

The “Official” Request For Information (RFI) put out by the Indian Navy for second line of 6 Submarines under Project 75 I is available here:

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION FOR PROCUREMENT OF 06 CONVENTIONAL SUBMARINES UNDER PROJECT 75(I)

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 08 Sep 2010 13:20

not sure of the RFI posted above is just the summary, but note no mention of VL tubes for brahmos/nirbhay. tomahawk SLCM did have a torpedo tube launch mode and many LA boats and Trafalgar uses that mode, perhaps nirbhay slcm version will need to be t-tube launched using the air cartridge thing if we want on these P75I. iirc exocet has a big cartridge that manouvers some distance away from SSK to hide its exact location.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby parshuram » 08 Sep 2010 13:47

From Livefist

The Indian Navy has floated a tender to acquire six new conventional attack submarines as part of Project 75(I), the submarine line that will run parallel to the Scorpene line in Mumbai. The RFI (see below) has been sent to shipbuilders that are believed to include Russia's Rubin for the Amur 1650, Fincantieri for the S1000, Navantia for the S-80 and HDW for the Class-214.

Was Wondering that TSP Navy is already in advanced stage of negotiations for HDW 214 , As per Wiki....

Pakistan
The Pakistan Navy is reportedly negotiating for the purchase of 3 Type 214 submarines, all of which to be built in Pakistan. During the IDEAS 2008 exhibition, the HDW chief Walter Freitag told “The commercial contract has been finalised up to 95 per cent,” he said. The first submarine would be delivered to the Pakistan Navy in 64 months after signing of the contract while the rest would be completed successively in 12 months...


Then Why HDW ?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 08 Sep 2010 14:15

to make that 64 months as 100 months :D

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 08 Sep 2010 14:22

Indian Navy calls for information for 06 conventional submarines under Project 75(I)

Me thinks:

1) Mijjile launch not sought.
2)
The information sheet called for construction of two submarines at collaborators shipyard and four submarines at two Indian shipyards.


The construction will be in a hurry.

3)
Indian Navy has requested information from firms who have independently designed and constructed a complete modern conventional submarine which is currently in service or undergoing sea trials.


No time to dejine and r yan D.

We could be looking at different sub for mijjle launch or onleee newclear submarain will be tasked to do. conventional subs can do SSk jobs.


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