Aircraft Recognition

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Bala Vignesh » 12 Jul 2011 17:46

There are currently no fighter squadrons based in bangalore, at least none that i know of... The aircrafts that fly around are here for overhauling/repair/testing at HAL, generally. The bird that you saw might have possibly been a Jaguar or a Tejas. Since they are the ones that generally fly thundering overhead in bangalore.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby shiv » 15 Jul 2011 17:51

atreya wrote:For the first time today, I saw a fighter aircraft flying in Bengaluru. I am new here, and over the past month, I heard the thundering, but have never been able to spot any aircraft. Today, I realized the truth in what Shiv said at the beginning of this thread. Aircraft recognition is a skill, developed over years and recognizing an aircraft in a picture is very different from identifying one that is flying at high speeds.
The aircraft I "thought" I spotted today was a Mig 27 :-? :((
My next best guess was a Jaguar! :oops: :oops:
I absolutely have NO idea which one it was though. I can say with 'some' level of certainty, that it wasn't a Su-30. Can anyone please help me? I was thinking, maybe a listing of squadrons in and around B'luru, so that I can narrow it down to a few aircraft, next time I spot one.


Atreya you have all the requirements for becoming a "spot on" planespotter.

In Bengaluru you are most likely to see Jaguar, Hawk, MiG 21, LCA, Kiran and occasionally Mirage 2000. It's been years since I saw a MiG 27 around these parts. Also look out for An-32, Avro 748, Il 76 and Dornier.

Triangular wing: Expect LCA/MiG 21, Mirage. The MiG 21 is distinctive because the tailplane is seen and the fuselage is much longer than the wing breadth. Sometimes it is tricky to differentiate between LCA and Mirage 2000. You see a flash between trees and you are not sure. Most likely LCA in Bangalore. M2K is rare.

Non triangular wing, swept back - usually Jaguar

Non swept wing, jet, blunt nose : Kiran. Slightly swept leading edge, sharp nose Hawk.

2 props, high wing - An 32
2 props low wing Avro

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Bala Vignesh » 15 Jul 2011 18:08

Damn it.. I forgot completely about the venerable MiG21. Its been ages since i saw one of them scream overhead.
In my college days, many a boring classes were made interesting by logging the activity overhead, and betting on the type of aircraft that's gonna be flying at a given time.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby atreya » 15 Jul 2011 19:15

Thanks a lot shiv. I now know what to spot.
I am now having 2nd thoughts, actually. It might have been a Jaguar, LCA or Hawk. One of these 3. It is pretty hard to spot the wing though,, when it flying across in front of your eyes. I focused on the nose and the overall shape of the aircraft.
Honestly though, I was in the middle of the class and I had to steal glances at it while keeping a sharp lookout for the teacher! :P

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby SriniY » 28 Jul 2011 23:31

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/h ... directlink

an old photo from RedFlag 2008. can someone tell whether that is an Su30 or an F15

Edit: Changed link, should work now
Last edited by SriniY on 29 Jul 2011 00:11, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby vijyeta » 28 Jul 2011 23:41

SriniY wrote:https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hnrnUG5fQUdl3pDH8u67Ug?feat=directlink

an old photo from RedFlag 2008. can someone confirm that it is a Su30


The link did not work.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Amitabh » 29 Jul 2011 00:14

SriniY wrote:https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hnrnUG5fQUdl3pDH8u67UlWCpVxsaBiZiGzjDtT76hY?feat=directlink

an old photo from RedFlag 2008. can someone tell whether that is an Su30 or an F15

Edit: Changed link, should work now

Those are F-15s (some F-16s in the background too).

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Bob V » 29 Jul 2011 09:26

simple trick. Check where the air intakes are located incase you find similar looking a/c.
eg. Su-30 : intakes are located below the mainplane aft the leading edge.
F-15 : intakes are located inline & fore the leading edge of the mainplane.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby shiv » 29 Jul 2011 16:54

SriniY wrote:https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hnrnUG5fQUdl3pDH8u67UlWCpVxsaBiZiGzjDtT76hY?feat=directlink

an old photo from RedFlag 2008. can someone tell whether that is an Su30 or an F15

Edit: Changed link, should work now


Excellent question! I found that I could recognize them as F-15s the first 4-5 on the left) instantly but I was not able to say why from memory. So as a learning exercise I post a pic of an Su-30 at approx the same angle

As you can see the Su-30 intakes are below the fuselage, unlike the F-15 intakes which are by the side. Also the Su-30 cockpit sit like a pretty little forward canted cap on top unlike the F-15 cockpit that is less prominent and horizontal

Image

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Aug 2011 14:20

I would wager they are also F15-C and not F15E or SU 30 from just looking at those drop tanks which are kind a unique looking, anther difference is the SU-30 carries all its fuel internally, as far as I can rember a drop tank has not been designed for it.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby atreya » 07 Aug 2011 17:12

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Image ... 9.jpg.html

A pic for clearly distinguishing between F-15 and Su-30

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby atreya » 10 Aug 2011 09:28

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-300

Is the Hughes still in service? I spotted it yesterday, flying around in Bangalore. I thought it had been phased out

Furthermore, the BR page (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Avia ... Hu300.html) informs me that out of the 4 procured, two are preserved- one in Cochin and one in Goa. Where did this 5th one come from then?

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Indranil » 10 Aug 2011 10:53

I saw them recently too

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby shiv » 10 Aug 2011 13:42

HAL helicopter training school operates that S-300. I see it regularly.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby merlin » 17 Aug 2011 12:55

shiv wrote:2 props, high wing - An 32
2 props low wing Avro


2 props, lots of smoke from engines = An 32 :mrgreen:

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Jagan » 18 Aug 2011 17:29

atreya wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-300

Is the Hughes still in service? I spotted it yesterday, flying around in Bangalore. I thought it had been phased out

Furthermore, the BR page (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Avia ... Hu300.html) informs me that out of the 4 procured, two are preserved- one in Cochin and one in Goa. Where did this 5th one come from then?


They belong to HAL Rotary Academy and are probably new production Schweizers.. not the old Hughes of the Navy ..
http://www.hal-india.com/helicopter/trainingacademy.asp

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby tsarkar » 18 Aug 2011 19:43

Looking at the Su-30K picture posted by Atreya, I noticed an EL8222 pod on the left wing. So I searched and here is a compilation of all ECM equipped fighters of India -

1. Elta8222 pod on Su-30K left wing http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Image ... 5.jpg.html and http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Image ... 9.jpg.html Right wing carries Ehud ACMI pod. I didn't know that even Su-30K birds were wired for full EW capability. However, given its sheer size and RCS, it does need organic ECM capability.

2. Remora pod on Mirage 2000H left wing http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Image ... 1.jpg.html

3. Elta8222 on MiG-21Bison right wing http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Image ... 1.jpg.html http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Image ... 2.jpg.html
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Image ... 3.jpg.html

4. Elta8222 on Sea Harrier right wing http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Gall ... 9.jpg.html left wing with Matra Magic on right wing http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Gall ... 3.jpg.html

5. There should be photos around of Jaguars and MiG27UPG with Tusker pods, that someone can find and add to the list.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby SBajwa » 13 Sep 2011 04:36

How about any Mig-29ks around Bangluru?

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Bala Vignesh » 13 Sep 2011 10:17

Bajwa sir,
AFAIK there are no MiG 29's operating out of or around bangalore. Have never spotted a Fulcrum in Bangalore skies, except for the aero India period.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby vivekmehta » 13 Sep 2011 10:29

gurus

how can we differentiate between Mig29 and Mig29K while flying
i think reinforced landing gear . Folding wings, arrestor hook.different engines cannot be spotted while flying .

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Bala Vignesh » 13 Sep 2011 18:30

Except for the markings, i guess there is not much you can differentiate physically between the MiG 29 variants..

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby chiru » 14 Sep 2011 12:54

Mig-29K have a much lighter colour scheme than the regular Mig-29s of the IAF

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby abhinavjo » 14 Sep 2011 13:57

The MiG 29's of IAF can be spotted by their hunchback

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Bala Vignesh » 14 Sep 2011 20:26

^^ that's right.. Post SMT upgrade, the hunchback will be a prominent feature for distinguishing between the Air Force and Naval MiG's.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby chiru » 14 Sep 2011 20:58

yes the hunchback is a major cue and the mig-29k dosent come with the vanilla single seat canopy of the original baaz its canopy is a twin seat canopy for either the single seat or the twin seat within it .....

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1166/img0424gc.jpg
eg. both mig-29ks are single seat birds

so if u spot a mig-29 with a single canopy its an IAF bird

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby shiv » 16 Sep 2011 09:45

Bala Vignesh wrote:^^ that's right.. Post SMT upgrade, the hunchback will be a prominent feature for distinguishing between the Air Force and Naval MiG's.


Problem is that for ground observers the dorsal hump/canopy is mostly not visible. Is there a color difference between Navy and IAF. The Navy birds are blue aren't they and IAF grey?

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby member_19626 » 16 Sep 2011 16:42

@Atreya
Keep your eyes open...Lots of aerial activity happens over the skies of bangalore..I did spot lots of A/c SU-30..few days ago spotted the rushtom fly low...took a snap..but the picture quality is not so good.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby member_19626 » 16 Sep 2011 16:47

SU 30 have a long protruded section between the exhaust nozzles..the F 15 does not have these..easy to distinguish from ground.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby member_19626 » 16 Sep 2011 17:04

shiv wrote:
atreya wrote:For the first time today, I saw a fighter aircraft flying in Bengaluru. I am new here, and over the past month, I heard the thundering, but have never been able to spot any aircraft. Today, I realized the truth in what Shiv said at the beginning of this thread. Aircraft recognition is a skill, developed over years and recognizing an aircraft in a picture is very different from identifying one that is flying at high speeds.
The aircraft I "thought" I spotted today was a Mig 27 :-? :((
My next best guess was a Jaguar! :oops: :oops:
I absolutely have NO idea which one it was though. I can say with 'some' level of certainty, that it wasn't a Su-30. Can anyone please help me? I was thinking, maybe a listing of squadrons in and around B'luru, so that I can narrow it down to a few aircraft, next time I spot one.


Atreya you have all the requirements for becoming a "spot on" planespotter.

In Bengaluru you are most likely to see Jaguar, Hawk, MiG 21, LCA, Kiran and occasionally Mirage 2000. It's been years since I saw a MiG 27 around these parts. Also look out for An-32, Avro 748, Il 76 and Dornier.

Triangular wing: Expect LCA/MiG 21, Mirage. The MiG 21 is distinctive because the tailplane is seen and the fuselage is much longer than the wing breadth. Sometimes it is tricky to differentiate between LCA and Mirage 2000. You see a flash between trees and you are not sure. Most likely LCA in Bangalore. M2K is rare.

Non triangular wing, swept back - usually Jaguar

Non swept wing, jet, blunt nose : Kiran. Slightly swept leading edge, sharp nose Hawk.

2 props, high wing - An 32
2 props low wing Avro


Shiv,

If u try to focus on the wing where it meets the fuselage just above the air intake u can spot the difference btwn Mirage and LCA. Mirage wing is Pure triangle in shape, where as LCA that particular portion is slightly bent inward. the technique works from ground. And if the A/c is flying with drop tanks then it becomes easy...drop tanks for these two A/c are clearly different. Mirage carries a bullet shape one.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby chiru » 16 Sep 2011 17:42

shiv wrote:Problem is that for ground observers the dorsal hump/canopy is mostly not visible. Is there a color difference between Navy and IAF. The Navy birds are blue aren't they and IAF grey?


shiv avare the navy abandoned the blue color scheme long ago they have moved onto grey as well but their trainers are still blue but there is a slight color difference in the latest color scheme of the birds but its barely noticeable

One other difference i found out was that the NAVY Mig-29k never has numbers or the tri-color on the vertical tail but all IAF birds have the tri-color and their numbers

Image
IN Mig-29k with only the squadron logo

Image
the IAF bird has the tri-color and the number

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby shiv » 16 Sep 2011 17:58

Shreyan wrote:
Shiv,

If u try to focus on the wing where it meets the fuselage just above the air intake u can spot the difference btwn Mirage and LCA. Mirage wing is Pure triangle in shape, where as LCA that particular portion is slightly bent inward. the technique works from ground. And if the A/c is flying with drop tanks then it becomes easy...drop tanks for these two A/c are clearly different. Mirage carries a bullet shape one.

Oh absolutely - . I am speaking of situations where you hear an aircraft look up and see clouds/trees and suddenly in some unexpected corner you see a delta flash past in less than 0.5 sec as a dark small triangle against a bright background. Either you spot the identity instantly or you don't. Most often the mind retains a memory of what you see and then you start wondering whether you saw the wing leading edge notch or not.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby member_19626 » 16 Sep 2011 18:47

Shiv...

So true....

:-? :shock: :x :?:

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby ashdivay » 09 Oct 2011 16:10

jamwal wrote:Image

X-22A


avatar ?

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Rudradev » 21 Oct 2011 08:51

What are these "French made Fighter Jets" in this picture? They are of the Libyan Air Force.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... e?page=0,8

Did IAF ever fly these, and if so, how long ago were they inducted? I ask because... very long ago on a childhood visit to J&K, I saw a number of fighters that looked very much like these on the tarmac at Srinagar airport.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby abhinavjo » 21 Oct 2011 09:04

Looks like an F5 Freedom fighter to me, not a french aircraft!
Could be Saudi or Sudanese or Iraninan AF cant really decipher the Indentification symbol

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Rudradev » 21 Oct 2011 09:07

F5 is what it looked like to me as well... but according to the photo-essay it is a part of, this is a French fighter serving in the Libyan airforce.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby sandesh » 21 Oct 2011 09:19

The Libyan AF did operate some F-5A/Bs until 1969. These are Libyan AF F-5s in old Royal Libyan AF markings(not the present green roundels/finflash). The serial number of the one of the F-5s in that pic is 22553.

Image

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby atreya » 21 Oct 2011 13:59

It is a F-5 for sure. The roundel's inner ring is white, so it can be the Libyan Air Force's (1969-1978, they used a roundel with an inner ring of white, according to Wiki uncle).
This corroborates with what Sandesh said about Libyans operating F5 A/B till 1969. But the confusion starts here. F5 A/B was the Freedom Fighter, while the E/F was called the Tiger. The Tiger had LERX, while the Freedom Fighter did not. In the pic, however, I can clearly see the LERX. Furthermore, the Tiger flew for the first time in 1970. SO, if the first Tiger with LERX flew in 1970, and Libya operated Freedom Fighters till 1969 (without LERX), which aircraft is it in the pic then?

Rudradev, I don't think IAF ever operated F-5 Tiger. A slightly similar looking aircraft which you MIGHT have seen was the Folland Gnat. The wing shape is completely different, but the fuselage looks similar. Plus, I think there was a squadron of Gnats based in Srinagar.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby shiv » 21 Oct 2011 14:07

Rudradev wrote:What are these "French made Fighter Jets" in this picture? They are of the Libyan Air Force.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... e?page=0,8

Did IAF ever fly these, and if so, how long ago were they inducted? I ask because... very long ago on a childhood visit to J&K, I saw a number of fighters that looked very much like these on the tarmac at Srinagar airport.


As others have said - an F-5 which was a twin engine aircraft that served in Vietnam and with many air forces including the Swiss AF, Turkey and Thailand. I think Thailand only recently replaced them with Gripens. The US made a single engine fighter derivative of this called the F-20 which they tried to sell to India after they had supplied F-16s to Pakhanaland. It may have been an effort to kill LCA, which Indians very nearly did themselves in a paroxysm of self sufficiency.

The image is labelled wrong. they need to visit this thread.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby sandesh » 21 Oct 2011 16:09

atreya wrote:It is a F-5 for sure. The roundel's inner ring is white, so it can be the Libyan Air Force's (1969-1978, they used a roundel with an inner ring of white, according to Wiki uncle).


Libyan AF had two different markings before the existing green one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Air_Force#Markings

Chances are that after Gadaffi came to power, those F-5As were painted with the new roundel & finflash(which seemed to be very common to Arab Air Forces). So, if you compare these to the one in the picture, they are an absolute match. They are Libyan F-5As.

Check the aircraft serial number on the fin. The serial number of the one in the old B/W pic is 22553 and the one in the picture I posted is 22555.

Also, only F-5A/B & C carried those wing tip mounted tanks. The E & F models did not carry wing mounted tanks as these models had greater internal fuel carrying capacity. LERX were added on the E model and weren't present on the A & C models.

Hope it rests speculations as to which country those F-5s belong to.


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