Aircraft Recognition

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Singha
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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Singha » 24 Sep 2010 08:23

isnt that the redoubtable bandar in person?

Gripen has a painted on back cockpit on the underside - to confuse which side is up and down. we could do the same on M2k and Tejas because both have
side intakes.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby neerajb » 24 Sep 2010 09:05

shiv wrote:Give yourself exactly one second to identify this aircraft. Don't post the answer here and let new enthusiasts take a shot.

Click for image


Shiv Saar I didn't want to cheat but the URL spilled the beans. :)

Cheers....

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby atreya » 24 Sep 2010 09:21

@ neerajb
Same here, same here! Though I am sure I would have been clueless, if there was no URL.

The MiG 29 and the Su 27 come from the same design stable


I can reply for once here, for I had taken many pains to differentiate between the two (after I saw BRFites mocking DDM for mistaking one for the other :wink: ). The clincher is the LERX on the wing tips. Mig 29 has none, while Su 27 and Su 30 have em.
This is a most educative thread, and definitely one I would keep visiting. I had barely learned to differentiate between American, Russian and Indian jets, and now this whole lot of new jets I am seeing from our eastern neighbours! Is it possible to make this thread a sticky? It can be a reference thread for noobs, that is why I am asking.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Pratik_S » 24 Sep 2010 09:28

shiv wrote:A great comparison of the Su-47 and the PAK-FA
Image


Sir, the aircraft on the right is not a PAK-FA ! There is no gap between the two engines. Its looks like a Super Hornet to me.

PAK-FA
Image

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Pratik_S » 24 Sep 2010 09:35

neerajb wrote:Shiv Saar I didn't want to cheat but the URL spilled the beans. :)

Cheers....


Neeraj, you and I can identify the Bundar even with our eyes closed ! :rotfl:

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby neerajb » 24 Sep 2010 10:27

atreya wrote:The clincher is the LERX on the wing tips. MiG 29 has none, while Su 27 and Su 30 have em.


There are two external features which can be used to distinguish between the two. Su-27 (& family) has a tail boom whereas MiG-29 doesn't have one and MiG-29 has a fillet/fairing between the vertical tail leading edge and the fuselage which is absent in Sukhois.

Other VERY visible distiguishing feature is smoky engines of MiG-29. Once had the opportunity to watch malaysian MiG-29 and Sukhoi perform mock dogfight. From a distance they look exactly the same ( when flying closer, one can make out the sheer size difference) but the smoky engines give away the similarity.

Another distinguishing feature ( which my mother uses to ID the aircraft with 100% success rate :D. She says Sukhoi is much more elegant and beautiful than MiG-29) is the straight cropped wingtip of Su-27 series v/s curved wingtip of MiG-29.

Cheers....

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Kersi D » 24 Sep 2010 14:09

shiv wrote:
ArmenT wrote:
A great comparison of the Su-47 and the PAK-FA

The Su-47 also has a certain close resemblance to a Grumman X-29. I remember seeing details about this aircraft in the mid 80s from Dad's copy of Aerospace America.


There was also a German experimental aircraft with forward swept wings - whose name I cannot recall at this moment. Apparently this configuration was able to prevent stalling or some such thing.


I think I have seen a pic in one of the very few Observers, that I have got. Could be the 1970 - 1972 edition.

K

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby shiv » 24 Sep 2010 14:13

Here are some Sukhois that you don't hear about much. Here again the MiG 21 design and this one are so close that they appear to have come from the same design bureau like the MiG 29 and Su 27.

Su-9 (and Su 11 was similar)
Image

Sukhoi Su 9
Image


The Su-15 (Flagon) was the fighter was used to shoot down down a Korean Airlines Jumbo in 1983.

Image

Image

The Chinese J-8 looks similar - at least the fuselage.
http://cnair.top81.cn/fighter/J-8F_3view.jpg

Image

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby shiv » 24 Sep 2010 14:29

The MiG 15 was a deadly adversary in the Korean war although the slightly older F-86 Sabre apparently prevailed. MiG 15 in front

Image

In a later era the Gnat outflew and outfought the Sabre
Image

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby atreya » 24 Sep 2010 18:06

Mig 15 and F-86 Sabre- I guess the difference lies in the tailplane. But any other external difference that is easier to spot?

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Lalmohan » 24 Sep 2010 18:07

nose shape - the Mig15 is fatter and rounder than the 'upper lip' sabre

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby shiv » 24 Sep 2010 19:03

Lalmohan wrote:nose shape - the Mig15 is fatter and rounder than the 'upper lip' sabre


And the intake of the Sabre seems to say "ohhh" while the MiG 15 intake mouth says "awww". The upper lip of the intake has a little pimple on the Sabre. :D

And strakes on wing.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby shiv » 24 Sep 2010 19:23

The US's F 100 plus series

The F-100 Super Sabre took part in the Vietnam war
Image

The F-101 Voodoo. This had a curse - a voodoo and many were lost to accidents
Image

The Convair F-102 delta Dagger was for defence of continental US airspace and never left the US
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The F-104 Starfighter was a widow maker and served with the Pakhanastan Air Force against india
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The Republic F-105 Thunderchief was a bomb truck that rendered yeoman service to the US in Vietnam eliminating gooks, slanteyes and other SDRE baddies. Check out teh wacko intakes
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The F-106 Delta Dart was an interceptor. At first glace it is similar to the F-102
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You all know the F-111
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And the F-117
Image

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby shiv » 24 Sep 2010 19:38

In 1962 my cousin Suresh gifted me with my first copy of the Observers Book of Aircraft. he had marked the Hawker Hunter to say that this what he used to fly. I was a little boy then and asked him which was the best aircrfat in the world and he pointed to the McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II
Image


The Northrop F-5 Tigershark
Image


The F-20 was a single engine version of the f-5offered to India (And India said balls)
Image

The F-8 Crusader was one of the early shipborne aircraft over Vietnam
Image

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Indranil » 24 Sep 2010 19:45

smpratik wrote:
shiv wrote:A great comparison of the Su-47 and the PAK-FA
Image


Sir, the aircraft on the right is not a PAK-FA ! There is no gap between the two engines. Its looks like a Super Hornet to me.


Thats not a super hornet ... It was one of the PAk-FA line drawings circulating before the PakFA was actually unveiled

tushar_m

Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby tushar_m » 24 Sep 2010 20:43

f105
Image

f105 Thunderchief
Image

A-4_Skyhawk
Image

Mig 19 farmer
Image

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Bala Vignesh » 25 Sep 2010 01:12

Shiv Sir,
Wg Cdr(retd) Suresh is your cousin??
I would love to have a look at those books...

The MiG-19 seems to be mixture of the MiG-21 and Mig-17...

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby shanksinha » 25 Sep 2010 01:55

The Northrop F-5 Tigershark


Shiv Sir, you mean the F-5 Tiger II (also known as Freedom Fighter in some quarters):
Image

The Tigershark ofcourse was the abortive F-20:
Image

-Thanks

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Lalmohan » 25 Sep 2010 02:04

bala
design wise the 19 is an evolution from the 17 and has very little in common with the 21 - which was meant for a completely different flight envelope

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby shanksinha » 25 Sep 2010 02:07

^^Bala Jee, Talk about mixtures of MiG-21 and Eurofighter and J-10 and ........... :-?
Image
Image
Mikoyan-Gurevich Ye-8

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby nachiket » 25 Sep 2010 05:13

Couple of views of the Yak-141 "Freestyle" - the first supersonic VTOL fighter in the world- showing its Lift engines in operation. Lockheed martin had provided funding to the Yakovlev design bureau for the development of the Yak-141 after the SU collapsed. It seems they borrowed the main concept of the rear swiveling nozzle for the F-35B.

Image

Image
Image

The CF-105 Arrow, a promising high altitude interceptor designed and developed in Canada that was killed by politics and AmirKhan.

Image
Image

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby nachiket » 25 Sep 2010 05:33

The Vought A-7 Corsair II was a carrier based light attack aircraft whose design was based on the F-8 Crusader posted by Shiv above. The similarity is obvious from the pic.

Image

Another former US carrier based attack aircraft, the Grumman A-6 Intruder. Its EW variant the EA-6B Prowler is still in service.

Image

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Carl_T » 25 Sep 2010 05:58


shiv
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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby shiv » 25 Sep 2010 06:38

nachiket wrote:Couple of views of the Yak-141 "Freestyle" - the first supersonic VTOL fighter in the world- showing its Lift engines in operation. Lockheed martin had provided funding to the Yakovlev design bureau for the development of the Yak-141 after the SU collapsed. It seems they borrowed the main concept of the rear swiveling nozzle for the F-35B.



Prior to this Yakovlev had produced the tech demonstrator Yak 36 "Freehand" which has vertical thrustvectoring nozzles on various places including the nose probe :shock:
Image

Eventually they did put a "Yak 38" VTOL fighter into service. It had a separate lift engine.
Yak 38
Image

Image

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby nachiket » 25 Sep 2010 06:59

^^Thanks for the Yak-36 pic. I knew of the Yak-38 but not the 36. That is a huge nose probe. :shock:

Another VTOL Technology Demonstrator, this time from Deutschland. Also used the same 3 - engine concept (2 lift engines, 1 Lift+cruise engine) like the Yak-38, but had a puny 45KN cruise engine and it remained a TD.

The VAK 191B

Image

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby shiv » 25 Sep 2010 08:33

nachiket wrote:The VAK 191B

Image


That looks so much like a predecessor to the Harrier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td8uH301_M4

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Shalav » 25 Sep 2010 10:31

shiv wrote:
You all know the F-111
http://www.f-111.net/CarloKopp/F-111CFG-LLC-3.gif


The 111 had a unique ejection system.

On ejection the entire crew cabin was ejected along with part of the wing glove. It was a self contained system with survival gear and had flotation & self righting devices to enable flotation and proper orientation on water landing.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8l79lSjVMg[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8l79lSjVMg

tushar_m

Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby tushar_m » 25 Sep 2010 12:24

i did n't know the name of the fighter but i have seen it in some documentary that there was a aircraft developed by Russians which uses 6 engines for VTOL + i am not sure of the source

tushar_m

Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby tushar_m » 25 Sep 2010 13:13

well got the fighter actually german

http://www.aviastar.org/air/germany/vj-101.php

Image


Image


Image


Image


Image


Image

:D

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Aditya G » 25 Sep 2010 14:58

tuneix wrote:Mig 19 farmer
Image


Wrong, its a chinese J-5. This particular example was donated by Pakistan to Bangladesh

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Pratik_S » 25 Sep 2010 18:12

indranilroy wrote:Thats not a super hornet ... It was one of the PAk-FA line drawings circulating before the PakFA was actually unveiled


Yes, its not a SH but the front half of the drawings looks quite similar to SH. As for the entire drawing no such aircraft exists.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Bala Vignesh » 25 Sep 2010 18:19

Lalmohan wrote:bala
design wise the 19 is an evolution from the 17 and has very little in common with the 21 - which was meant for a completely different flight envelope

Lalmohanji..
True that the 21 was supposed to cover the supersonic flight envelope.. But the main fuselage except the wings are very similiar to the design on the 19... Just a casual observation, of course... For eg the intake and the tail planform of the 21 are very similar to the that on the 19...

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby asgkhan » 25 Sep 2010 18:36

Hawker Hunter Prototypes.
Image


Image

Image

Image

Image

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby nachiket » 25 Sep 2010 20:40

Aditya G wrote:
tuneix wrote:Mig 19 farmer


Wrong, its a chinese J-5. This particular example was donated by Pakistan to Bangladesh

J-6 actually. The J-5 was a Mig-17 ripoff.

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Bala Vignesh » 26 Sep 2010 00:00

tuneix wrote:well got the fighter actually german

http://www.aviastar.org/air/germany/vj-101.php




Image

:D


Seems like even european countries do copy-paste work...

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Indranil » 26 Sep 2010 12:02

^^^^ Didn't get this one ... how is this a copy paste? ... Copied from whom? You could say the Osprey has borrowed the idea ... That way there are just so many wings and so many engine configurations. almost everything will be a copy paste!

Swiveling of engines is incredibly difficult ... that too without FBW

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Bala Vignesh » 26 Sep 2010 14:02

Indranil Sir,
AFAIK, The airframe is a slightly modified F104 starfighter... Granted the Osprey has probably borrowed the engine swiveling idea from this...
Absolutely second the statement on the difficulty of swiveling engines...

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby Kersi D » 26 Sep 2010 21:21

atreya wrote:Mig 15 and F-86 Sabre- I guess the difference lies in the tailplane. But any other external difference that is easier to spot?


F 86 Sabre has 3 x 0.5 in machine guns at each side of the air inlet, below and little ahead of the cockpit. This is how I identify the Sabres

K

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby atreya » 26 Sep 2010 21:28

F 86 Sabre has 3 x 0.5 in machine guns at each side of the air inlet, below and little ahead of the cockpit. This is how I identify the Sabres


Thanks. Thats a better way. I was searching for these machine guns in the nose actually! Where are the MiG's guns then?

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Re: Aircraft Recognition

Postby nachiket » 26 Sep 2010 21:31

atreya wrote:
F 86 Sabre has 3 x 0.5 in machine guns at each side of the air inlet, below and little ahead of the cockpit. This is how I identify the Sabres


Thanks. Thats a better way. I was searching for these machine guns in the nose actually! Where are the MiG's guns then?


Image

Look just below the intake on both sides.

2X23 mm cannons on the left and 1X37mm cannon on the right.


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